| --- | Log | opened Wed Apr 16 00:00:48 2008 |
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| 07:25 | <murb> | are the xensource lists broken? |
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| 09:54 | <caker> | murb: I think so |
| 09:54 | <caker> | no one cares :( |
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| 11:21 | <steve9001> | how do xen guests work in terms of dstro kernels? Does the xen guest kernel have to be compiled differently from the normal distro's kernel? If so, do we rely on Linode staff to make new kernels available when our distro releases a new kernel package? I'm using Ubuntu btw |
| 11:23 | <steve9001> | i really want to upgrade to 8.04 but it occurred to me that I probably can't do the dist-upgrade (its still beta, i know) because the kernel wouldn't work properly? or is that not the case |
| 11:23 | <caker> | steve9001: Linode's kernels should work with all distros |
| 11:24 | <steve9001> | the guest doesn't have to have special compile for xen? |
| 11:24 | <steve9001> | becsue in the uname on the profile manager isn't there mention of 'xen' in the name of the kernels you can choose from? |
| 11:25 | <caker> | steve9001: but to answer your question, there are three "modes" (kinda) that Xen supports: patched Xen kernels, pv_ops, and the fully virtualized |
| 11:25 | <caker> | only in the "fully virtualized" mode can you run unmodified operating systems/kernels |
| 11:26 | <steve9001> | ahh |
| 11:26 | <caker> | and for the other two modes, only the kernel needs modification |
| 11:26 | <steve9001> | i assume patched Xen kernels are better performance? |
| 11:26 | <caker> | Yes. |
| 11:26 | <steve9001> | linode is uniformly running in fully virtualized mode |
| 11:26 | <danpb> | caker: yes, you have to use linode's own kernels - you can't supply your own |
| 11:26 | <steve9001> | but it wouldnt run another OS, only Linux kernel? |
| 11:26 | <caker> | steve9001: no, we don't do fully virtualized |
| 11:27 | <steve9001> | if you aren't in fully virtualized, and it is only fully virtualized that lets you run unmodified kernels, then how is it also true that Linode's kernels should work with all distros ? |
| 11:27 | <steve9001> | oh.... |
| 11:27 | <steve9001> | nm |
| 11:27 | <caker> | danpb: ? |
| 11:27 | <steve9001> | we use linode's kernel |
| 11:27 | <steve9001> | not distro kernel |
| 11:27 | <danpb> | linode supply pre-built paravirtualized kernels |
| 11:27 | <caker> | caker == linode, btw :) |
| 11:28 | <danpb> | so you're not booting the kernels that come with your distro |
| 11:28 | <steve9001> | i get it but |
| 11:28 | <danpb> | caker: ok, so you can correct me if i'm wrong :-) |
| 11:28 | * | danpb has a linode box & would love to be able to use the standard Fedora Xen kernels on it :-) |
| 11:28 | <steve9001> | when you do, say, apt-get upgrade and it puts in a new kernel package... that doesn't overwrite the one your node is booting from |
| 11:29 | <caker> | steve9001: nope .. the kernels your Linode actually boots is outside of your filesystem (on its host) |
| 11:29 | <caker> | danpb: ok -- but why? |
| 11:29 | <steve9001> | how does that work with kernel headers for compiling other packages? |
| 11:29 | <danpb> | caker: SELinux |
| 11:29 | <caker> | ah |
| 11:29 | <steve9001> | well actually i dont really care about that last question, it just popp[ed into my head |
| 11:29 | <caker> | steve9001: no conflict .. kernel headers usually don't match the kernel you're running anyway AFAIK |
| 11:29 | <danpb> | and because I'm one of the Fedora Xen maintainers so like to run/test our stuff |
| 11:30 | <steve9001> | does linode compile kernels directly from source from kernel.org then? |
| 11:30 | <caker> | heh |
| 11:30 | <steve9001> | or from a distro |
| 11:30 | <caker> | pv_ops is from kernel.org |
| 11:30 | <caker> | patched-xen kernels is from xensource |
| 11:31 | <danpb> | caker: you provide pv_ops based kernels on linode now ? |
| 11:31 | <caker> | no, I don't use bastardized distro kernels :) |
| 11:31 | <caker> | danpb: yup |
| 11:31 | <caker> | well, it's an option -- they're kinda buggy |
| 11:31 | <danpb> | caker: and they've been stable enough ? |
| 11:31 | <danpb> | ah, that's what i expected :-) |
| 11:31 | <caker> | heh |
| 11:31 | <steve9001> | so what is 2.6.18.8-domU-linode7 ? obviously kernel 2.6.18.8 and then... |
| 11:31 | <caker> | steve9001: it's a xensource xen-patched kernel |
| 11:31 | <caker> | The xensource kernels are stuck on 2.6.18 |
| 11:32 | <steve9001> | do they release security and bug fixes right away though |
| 11:32 | <danpb> | still, hopefully 2.6.26 will have a reliable pvops kernel for both 32 & 64 bit |
| 11:32 | <danpb> | since we're switching to pvops exclusively in Fedora 9, so have to iron out the bugs or the users will complain bitterly |
| 11:32 | <caker> | yeah, I was dissapointed to find 64 bits depended on !pv_ops |
| 11:33 | <caker> | steve9001: either Xen or people compiling the kernels fix them, yes |
| 11:33 | <murb> | steve9001: not really, i'm using the debian 2.6.18 source becaues it has security support with more recent xen patches. |
| 11:33 | <danpb> | caker: fedora 9 kernels have pv_ops 64 bit kernels - we'll be submitting the patches for 2.6.26 |
| 11:33 | <steve9001> | so kernel-wise there is no reason not to do a dist-upgrade to 8.04 LTS , is what you are saying |
| 11:33 | <caker> | danpb: nice |
| 11:33 | <caker> | steve9001: correct |
| 11:33 | <danpb> | caker: our git tree is here http://git.et.redhat.com/?p=xen-pvops-64.git;a=summary |
| 11:34 | <steve9001> | murb: you are using this not on Linode though.. ? |
| 11:34 | <murb> | steve9001: ubuntu don't and iirc have never offically supported Xen. |
| 11:34 | <murb> | steve9001: i have no idea what Linode are. |
| 11:34 | <steve9001> | ok :) |
| 11:34 | <murb> | are they just another random Xen hoster? |
| 11:34 | <steve9001> | nope |
| 11:34 | <murb> | (tm) |
| 11:34 | <steve9001> | not just another random.. |
| 11:34 | <steve9001> | :) |
| 11:34 | <danpb> | murb: yes, an awesomely cheap Xen vhost |
| 11:35 | <steve9001> | caker any thoughts on KVM and ubuntu's JeOS? |
| 11:35 | <steve9001> | I realize a year of testing Xen doesn't leave you eager to switch virtualization technologies any time soon |
| 11:36 | <caker> | KVM makes sense to me... why rewrite an entire hypervisor when Linux can do the job just fine (and is stable) |
| 11:36 | <caker> | steve9001: try 4 years :) |
| 11:36 | <murb> | it would be neat if there was just one qemu that supported xen and kvm. |
| 11:36 | <caker> | and JeOS is just the virtual appliance thing, right? |
| 11:36 | <steve9001> | yes the bare bones ubuntu server install with stripped down kernel and stuff |
| 11:37 | * | caker shrugs |
| 11:37 | <steve9001> | k |
| 11:37 | <danpb> | murb: you're unlikely to ever get one binary that'll do both, but its definitely possible to get one source tree that builds binaries for xen, qemu and kvm |
| 11:37 | <murb> | danpb: tbh any one who prices in $US is going to be awsemely cheap before long. |
| 11:37 | <steve9001> | ugh |
| 11:38 | <murb> | 'tis about 1.6 $US / € |
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| 11:39 | <caker> | !calc 1 usd in euro |
| 11:39 | <linbot> | caker: 1 U.S. dollar = 0.628219626 Euros |
| 11:41 | <murb> | and lists are still unavalible :( |
| 11:41 | <caker> | damnit .. I have xen crashes to report! :) |
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| 15:41 | <ComCardLLC> | hello Hello |
| 15:41 | <ComCardLLC> | <=== is looking for Xen exper |
| 15:41 | <ComCardLLC> | expert.. |
| 15:42 | <ComCardLLC> | <== meeds xen isntalled ASP and willing to pay |
| 15:43 | <ComCardLLC> | for it |
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| 17:21 | <danpb> | hmm, the mailing lists seem kind dead |
| 17:27 | <icarus901> | indeed |
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| --- | Log | closed Thu Apr 17 00:00:40 2008 |
