TheGrebs.com:IRC Logs:#xen:2006:07:01

---	Log	opened Sat Jul 01 00:00:00 2006
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05:24	<Marco>	hi
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07:49	<riel>	sigh
07:49	<riel>	so credit scheduler + VT == instant reboot
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12:43	<shinji>	has anybody used USB printers with pciback?
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15:46	<tessier>	What is a credit schedular anyway?
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15:56	<riel>	tessier: it's a new scheduler
15:56	<riel>	tessier: the big feature is SMP rebalancing of vcpus
15:58	<tessier>	Ah.
15:59	<tessier>	I am not all that familiar with the internals. Is it dom0 that determines the scheduling of the domU's?
15:59	<tessier>	Although I have been using xen for a year I am still unclear on exactly how much the xen kernel itself does and how much the dom0 does and how they communicate.
16:00	<tessier>	I guess I could read the code but it's not exactly a short read and I'm no C guru.
16:01	<riel>	the hypervisor does the scheduling
16:01	<tessier>	But it hands off device IO to domain0's drivers?
16:02	<Z3R0`c00l>	with xen it's possibile to have prebuild virtual machine....? like vmware player
16:02	<riel>	Z3R0`c00l: look at jailtime.org
16:02	<mastermind>	Z3R0`c00l: sure - there are even a number of sites out there offering them
16:02	<riel>	tessier: yes, device IO goes via dom0
16:03	<tessier>	Interesting.
16:03	<tessier>	Anyone heard of any success or problems with making Xen work with AoE?
16:03	<tessier>	I am setting up such a thing at work. Hope to have the cluster booting and running this week.
16:04	<tessier>	If it works out we are going to move a lot of our operations onto it. Save us a ton.
16:04	<Z3R0`c00l>	mastermind: you know if some site offers images that are pre.configured to do something (webserver, mail server, ecc)?
16:04	<riel>	I know we're certainly planning to support the combination of Xen and GFS
16:05	<riel>	Z3R0`c00l: that's really hard - how do you preconfigure a mail server without telling it its IP address and domain names? :)
16:06	<Z3R0`c00l>	riel: configured in sense of shipped with package that are needed to do that role... :)
16:06	<riel>	jailtime.org might have them
16:06	<Z3R0`c00l>	thnx :) i'll give it a look now :)
16:07	<mastermind>	Z3R0`c00l: though installing a mail or a webserver is realyl trivial on most linux distributions :-)
16:08	<Z3R0`c00l>	(i'm don't speak english really well.. so.. trivial means hard or easy? :P)
16:08	<Z3R0`c00l>	grrr.... i don't
16:08	<mastermind>	easy
16:09	<riel>	the same thing "trivial" means in french or spanish
16:09	<Z3R0`c00l>	i'm italian :P
16:09	<mastermind>	or german
16:12	<shinji>	does anybody know why I might get an 'out of memory for write buf' from usblp when connecting a usb printer to a domU? it's set up to use pci passthrough
16:12	[~]	tessier reads about ext4
16:13	<tessier>	The whole filesystem thing is annoying.
16:13	<tessier>	But I guess it's good that we have choice.
16:48	<matti>	:-)
16:48	<shinji>	huh...it's happening with two printers
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16:49	<shinji>	but works fine in dom0
16:52	<matti>	shinji: /j ##xen at Freenode too :)
17:01	<shinji>	<.< >.>
17:01	<matti>	:)
17:01	<shinji>	what, no insta-help? :)
17:02	<matti>	Hehe.
17:02	<matti>	:)
17:03	<shinji>	I really don't wanna run saned, cupsd, and samba in dom0
17:03	<shinji>	>.>;
17:04	<shinji>	though I might temporarily...if this can't be easily fixed
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18:13	<knewt>	so i'm, hopefully, going to manage to put some time aside to start playing with xen again soon. what would be a good bit of code to look at to figure out how to put drivers together now? that is, the xen side of drivers, not driver-specific stuff
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19:19	<OHPhoneGuy>	Will Xen allow me to run a "OS inside a window" (al a VmWare?)
19:24	<visik7>	OHPhoneGuy: which OS ?
19:42	<OHPhoneGuy>	Ubuntu
19:43	<OHPhoneGuy>	visik7, I'm trying to write up an Install guide, and need a display to run inside a window (if at all possible, ala vmware/virtual pc)
19:43	<visik7>	is possible yes
19:44	<visik7>	but do you want to run it with non patched kernel (with VT hardware)
19:50	<aliguori>	OHPhoneGuy, qemu is probably more along the lines of what you're looking for
19:50	<OHPhoneGuy>	aliguori: Thanks! I appreciate your input....I knew that there was a libre version out there, however, I couldn't remember the name of it, and some googling only got me the $$ for play contendors.
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19:55	<xai>	can anyone recommend a decent xen VPS vendor , thanks.
19:56	<tessier>	xai: rimuhosting.com or unixshell.com
19:56	<tessier>	I have unixshell.com. But they are having a lot of problems with xen lately. Not sure if it is xen or them.
19:56	<tessier>	Or their hardware.
19:56	<tessier>	They claim to be working with xen developers on the issues.
19:57	<tessier>	My xen VPS got rebooted for days ago and was down for several hours.
19:57	<tessier>	four
19:58	<OHPhoneGuy>	xai: try quantact....I've got my hosting on there, and tim's a great guy to deal with
20:05	<xai>	Thanks guys.. unixshell says they can't take new orders at the moment.. They refer to tektonic.com which seems good too.
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21:38	<deejoe>	"Does TekTonic allow IRC services to be hosted on it's VPS plans?
21:38	<deejoe>	We do not allow any type of IRC service to be run from our VPS accounts."
21:38	<nick125>	tessier: I've heard that unixshell is trying to get everyone to move to their virtuozzo, saying that xen is unstable
21:38	<tessier>	nick125: That is true. I got an email from them the other day.
21:39	<tessier>	I don't get it.
21:39	[~]	nick125 co-owns a VPS provider, xen isn't unstable
21:39	<tessier>	deejoe: I am totally with them on that. I wouldn't allow IRC either.
21:39	<nick125>	my only issues with xen is the network issues
21:39	<tessier>	nick125: Yeah, I've been running xen personally for a year and I am working on moving huge chunks of my employers infrastructure over to it. If it has problems I would be VERY interested to learn about them before I damage my career!
21:40	<tessier>	What network issues does it have?
21:40	<deejoe>	tessier: but you're not above using someone else hosting IRC, obviously ;-)
21:40	<deejoe>	also, that FAQ is right after this:
21:40	<deejoe>	"Does TekTonic allow adult content to be hosted?"
21:40	<deejoe>	We allow any content to be hosted that is legal in the United States of America.
21:40	<deejoe>	"
21:40	<deejoe>	legal content, save for IRC, haha.
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21:41	<nick125>	tessier: well, bridged networking has issues (for example, networking between my two subnets sometimes dies), routed I haven't gotten working right, and NAT wouldn't work for my purposes
21:42	<tessier>	deejoe: Nope. If they want to take on the risk, that's their business. I certainly wouldn't want too. Too much chance of collateral damage.
21:42	<tessier>	nick125: Yeah, I had a heck of a time setting up routing and nat etc between domains. I really want a firewall domain but couldn't get it to work. So I have everything on public ip's for the moment.
21:42	<tessier>	But other people have obviously made it work.
21:43	<nick125>	sadly, bridged seems to be the best of the three evils
21:43	<tessier>	The shorewall author has a very nice howto called "xen my way" on getting shorewall and complex routing and firewalling things working in xen.
21:43	<tessier>	It's great.
21:43	<tessier>	Unfortunately I couldn't get it working.
21:44	<nick125>	I tried moving my firewall to a domU, let's just say its a pain and I haven't gotten it working
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21:46	<tessier>	And of course a domU is where you really want the firewall. You don't want your dom0 on the public network. Ideally it wouldn't have any networking at all.
21:47	<nick125>	basic networking, for emerge --syncing and emerge -uDav world'ing, and such
21:48	<nick125>	and of course, downloading the new xen versions which break all of your management scripts!
21:49	[~]	nick125 rolls his eyes
21:54	<OHPhoneGuy>	My Virtual host uses xen, and I couldn't be happier :0
21:54	<OHPhoneGuy>	(my two cents' worth)
21:55	<tessier>	The tricky part to my setup is going to be AoE. I am sure Xen by itself works fine. I don't know why unixshell.com has such problems.
21:55	<tessier>	But Xen without shared storage is missing a lot of the potential of Xen.
21:55	<nick125>	AoE is not a big deal
21:56	<tessier>	The majority of our issues are revolving around a Random Reboot bug, which the people at Xen-Source do know about but have yet to fully fix.
21:56	<tessier>	-- Regards, -- -Dave Sonnie unixshell# \| TekTonic Network Solutions
21:56	<nick125>	the only reason we don't use it is because it would add too much I/O latency (imho)
21:56	<nick125>	random reboot bug?
21:56	<tessier>	nick125: In our case the latency isn't a problem.
21:56	<nick125>	yeah
21:56	<tessier>	IO latency means you just cache more if anything. RAM is important. Especially with Xen.
21:57	<nick125>	but, when you got 80 VMs on a box, with a single gigabit pipe, it just might have some I/O latency, plus, it would add networking as a bottleneck
21:58	<tessier>	80 VM's is probably a bit much. :) And if you have shared storage and run into IO latency due to too many VM's sucking up bandwidth you need to rebalance your load.
21:58	<tessier>	And if the disk nodes become bottlenecks you need more disk. etc.
21:58	<nick125>	yeah
21:59	<nick125>	we aim to give users around 200mhz-300mhz of CPU speed, if at some point everyone was using the CPU, everyone would have around 300mhz
22:00	<nick125>	at our low plan
22:00	<nick125>	RAM is a real killer though
22:01	<nick125>	for example, I was playing around on a gentoo VPS with 48MB of RAM. mysql took 8 hours to compile. bumped it to 64, it took 2 hours
22:02	<tessier>	Fortunately RAM is relatively cheap and we have 64 bit boxes which we can load up with tons of RAM
22:03	<tessier>	And in coming years with virtualization taking off I bet they will make it possible to get even more RAM on a board
22:03	<tessier>	My project has dual dual-core opterons. I like to have at least 4G per CPU and really we should have 8 or 16.
22:08	<nick125>	ugh
22:08	[~]	nick125 kicks pyinotify
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22:40	<knewt>	hmm. how unstable is unstable lately?
22:55	<tessier>	"She turned me into a knewt!"
22:55	<tessier>	(I got better)
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23:09	<knewt>	hmm, i'm sure i remember a barebones skeleton example of a xen driver on the list at some point. wonder how much things have changed since then, and if it's still relevant
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---	Log	closed Sun Jul 02 00:00:51 2006