TheGrebs.com:IRC Logs:#xen:2006:01:17

---	Log	opened Tue Jan 17 00:00:25 2006
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10:32	<DomZero>	Performance Question : in Xen docs it is said that running DomU has overhead or performance price of 3% of native
10:32	<DomZero>	It is said more than once
10:33	<DomZero>	Now does it refere to when running only one domain 0 ?
10:33	<DomZero>	I mean of course domU
10:33	<DomZero>	My question is : if we are running some guests (DomU instances), is the
10:34	<DomZero>	overhead also 3% ?
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10:34	<DomZero>	Ratio for yes for this question cab be that no more than one DomU can in fact run in a given moment
10:35	<DomZero>	and there are context switches of domains. Is it so ?
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11:18	<DomZero>	I'm repeating my question regarding 3% performance from an hour ago:
11:18	<DomZero>	Performance Question : in Xen docs it is said that running DomU has overhead or performance price of 3% of native
11:18	\|-\|	[DomZero][DomZero] changed the topic of #xen: http://www.getxen.org/ \|\| xm-test results http://xmtest.dague.org \|\| happy birthday Xen 3.0! \|\| Use Bittorrent to download please
11:19	<DomZero>	sorry
11:19	<DomZero>	Now does it refere to when running only one domain U?
11:19	<DomZero>	My question is : if we are running some guests (DomU instances), is the
11:19	<DomZero>	verhead also 3% ?
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11:19	<DomZero>	Ratio for answering yes for this question can be that no more than one DomU can in fact run in a given moment
11:20	<DomZero>	and there are context switches of domains. Is it so ?
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11:20	<Tv>	cache gets flushed when switching between domUs, so the overhead is a bit higher than if you had a physical computer with just 1/n of the cpu and ram
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11:21	<DomZero>	the question is : is it matter
11:21	<DomZero>	in terms of performance , when
11:22	<DomZero>	I use one domU , 2 domU , 5 or 6 ?
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11:22	<DomZero>	when you say " than if you had a physical computer with just 1/n of the..."
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11:22	<Tv>	DomZero: In my experience, the biggest issue is running out of RAM.
11:23	<DomZero>	TC: 1) you compare it to non-xen Pc
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11:23	<Tv>	Having two physical boxes with performance P is faster than a Xen box with performance 2*P.
11:23	<DomZero>	Tv: Let's say my application is not RAM eater
11:23	<Tv>	Unless the CPU in the Xen box has larger L1/L2 caches, too.
11:23	<DomZero>	Now , when I run 1 domU with such app
11:24	<DomZero>	and 5 such DomU
11:24	<DomZero>	will the performance results be also 3% ?
11:24	<Tv>	It's really very close to running multiple processes in one operating system.
11:24	<Tv>	Switching causes extra overhead.
11:24	<Tv>	It's not that big an overhead, though.
11:25	<DomZero>	Do I understand right that at a given moment only one domU is scheduled to run?
11:25	<Tv>	On one CPU, only one thing happens at a time.
11:26	<DomZero>	OK; so on one CPU there are all the time context switch between dom0 and the domU instances
11:26	<DomZero>	I think I will look in the docs what they meant when talking about 3%
11:26	<DomZero>	is it one domU or more
11:27	<Tv>	It's compared to running on raw hardware, with dom0 sitting idle.
11:27	<Tv>	one domU
11:27	<Tv>	because the more domUs you have, the bigger your overhead gets
11:27	<Tv>	and depends a lot on what you run in them
11:27	<Tv>	and is much harder to profile
11:27	<DomZero>	"you say one domU" - did you saw it in the docs (like OLS paper or else?)
11:28	<Tv>	nope, but common sense says so ;)
11:28	<Tv>	But you really shouldn't care; in the time we had this conversation, CPU prices have fallen enough to make the same amount of money buy a CPU that's faster by the amount of extra overhead a single domU causes.
11:28	<DomZero>	Ok,I will take a look at the docs
11:29	<DomZero>	:-)
11:30	<DomZero>	what is true is that the pricing of the Vt-x shows that intel want to mass product them
11:31	<DomZero>	another question: what is behind the hvm (AMD and VT-x unified API) ? is it done by Intel or AMD ? is it
11:31	<DomZero>	going to be integrated ?
11:31	<DomZero>	I saw in the xen-devel some talk about it this week
11:32	<DomZero>	http://xenbits.xensource.com/ext/xen-unstable-hvm.hg
11:32	<DomZero>	and http://lists.xensource.com/archives/html/xen-devel/2006-01/msg00344.html
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11:35	<thelsdj>	tab: tip seems to have fixed problem i had after 8525, going back a few changesets to see if i can figure exactly which fixed it, maybe 8624 or 8625
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13:02	<radner>	Hey guys. Could someone clear up a question for me. The recent community release source does not off the bat support a 2.4 domU build. Anyone know of a doc'd method how I can over come this?
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13:35	<DomZero>	I'm asking again, forgive me (I simply wasn't answered) what is behind the hvm (AMD and VT-x unified API) ? is it done by Intel or AMD ? is it
13:35	<DomZero>	going to be integrated in Xen ?
13:35	<DomZero>	I saw in the xen-devel some talk about it this week
13:35	<DomZero>	http://lists.xensource.com/archives/html/xen-devel/2006-01/msg00344.html
13:35	<DomZero>	and the repository is in : http://xenbits.xensource.com/ext/xen-unstable-hvm.hg
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13:42	<jerone>	DomZero: you should really go to the list with your question..the hvm tree is fro AMD Pacifica
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13:45	<DomZero>	jerone" but it includes vt-x , and a common interface ; I saw in the list that there is not much info on it ; is AMD behind hvm ? any idea?
13:46	<DomZero>	The thing which seems a little strange is , that though there is many common thins between AMD and Intel there are also some differences
13:46	<DomZero>	espacially reagrding the tagged TLB which intel does not have
13:47	<DomZero>	or should I say "does not have yet".
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13:52	<jerone>	DomZero: yes AMD is behind hvm
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13:54	<DomZero>	jerome: I see
13:54	<jerone>	I think VT doesn't even have the ability to do tagged TLB
13:54	<DomZero>	I also think so ; it does not appear in vt-x spec
13:55	<DomZero>	However , the question is , does tagged TLB indeed have
13:55	<DomZero>	a good performance improvement over non tag TLB
13:56	<DomZero>	and if the answer is YES, another question is will Intel
13:56	<DomZero>	again adopt an idea from AMD
13:56	<DomZero>	(namely, the tagged TLB)
13:57	<jerone>	it should have a huge performance improvment
13:57	<DomZero>	so is it technically possible for Intel to add tagged TLB? it is more a hw
13:57	<jerone>	to do TLB tagging you need an intergrated memory controller ( I believe) ..Intel does not have this in there CPUs
13:58	<DomZero>	so you say in the short run (ior even longer) Intel cannot adopt tagged TLB
13:58	<DomZero>	?
13:59	<DomZero>	so when AMD processors will enter the market (I believe in Q1 or Q2 2006)
13:59	<jerone>	I believe so ... but would need to check that...but if that is the case then Intel isn't going to be doing it anytime soon
13:59	<DomZero>	they will be better (hugely)?
13:59	<DomZero>	in terms of performance?
14:00	<jerone>	no idea there ... Intel has the new Centrino Dou CPUs that will have VT out to consumer market next month (through iMacs and other laptop manufactures)
14:00	<DomZero>	jerome: thnks; but I have no idea how I can check it...
14:01	<jerone>	DomZero: just wait till they hit the market..everyone who has one is not allowed to talk about performance numbers
14:01	<jerone>	so you just have to speculate on the tech specs for now
14:02	<DomZero>	jerome: ok !
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14:20	<muli>	hey gerrit :-)
14:20	<gerrit>	hi muli
14:20	<muli>	enjoying the summit?
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14:21	<gerrit>	yep. ;)
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14:54	<thelsdj>	hrm anyone tried openbsd recently as a vmx domain? the install seems to fail when trying to create filesystem on the disk with 'Device not configured' so i wonder if the ioemu isn't working properly or something
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15:32	<anball>	thelsdj: that's interesting. i have a patch to debug the ioemu device model that i posted on xen-devel some time back. it probably needs more tweaking to get in the tree, but it's here: http://lists.xensource.com/archives/html/xen-devel/2006-01/msg00093.html
15:33	<anball>	thelsdj: have only tried rhel 4, windows xp, debian sarge myself
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15:42	<jerone>	aliguori: how's the summit ?
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15:46	<aliguori>	jerone: it's going pretty well, in hollisb's talk right now
15:46	<jerone>	ah
15:46	<aliguori>	jerone: ian proposed having 6-8 week release cycles
15:47	<jerone>	aliguori: so that would translate in english to 6 to 8 month releases ...it's an imporvment :-)
15:47	<aliguori>	heh
15:47	<jerone>	how did your talk go
15:48	<aliguori>	i think it went okay, jacob's opengl stuff is really cool
15:48	<aliguori>	his demo was two domains running mplayer plus two domains running glxgears
15:48	<aliguori>	on a t42p
15:48	<aliguori>	pretty impressive
15:49	<jerone>	nice
15:49	<aliguori>	jerone, i got seriously lost coming down here
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15:49	<aliguori>	I read the map upside down, and ended up taking oldorf all the way out to lamar
15:49	<jerone>	haha
15:50	<jerone>	all you had to do was follow the white smoke comfing from the fab
15:50	<jerone>	comfing == coming
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15:50	<aliguori>	:-)
15:51	<aliguori>	jerone, yeah, I'll blame it on being tired
15:51	<aliguori>	hey gerrit
15:51	<gerrit>	hey aliguori - boy is your name hard to type! :)
15:51	<aliguori>	gerrit, tab completion :-)
15:51	<sdague>	gerrit: no tab completion?
15:52	<gerrit>	I'm a touch typist - tab completion comes slowly to mind (or fingers ;-)
15:52	[~]	aliguori is going to run out of power soon
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15:52	<aliguori>	:-(
15:52	<gerrit>	aliguori: there is power up here
15:52	<aliguori>	gerrit, i'm in the smaller conference room
15:52	<aliguori>	i'll find some...
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16:22	<thelsdj>	fyi, anyone who had problem with host crashing when starting guest from 8525 up, its fixed in 8609
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20:45	<karsten_>	Gah. How do I get the current changeset from hg?
21:35	<b2s>	I think what you want is a "pull" followed by an "update"
21:37	<b2s>	that should update all your local files to match the repository
21:41	<karsten_>	b2s: No, what I want is something to show what current changeset I've got checked out.
21:41	<karsten_>	b2s: No, what I want is something to show what current changeset I've got checked out.
21:42	<karsten_>	Gah.
21:42	<karsten_>	Eg: hg identify; hg log -r tip.
21:42	<karsten_>	... assuming I've got tip.
21:44	<b2s>	what's wrong with "hg tip"?
21:45	<karsten_>	b2s: Too easy ;-)
21:45	<b2s>	heh
21:46	<karsten_>	How do I know I've got tip? pull/update?
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22:05	<b2s>	karsten_: you could also point your browser at the remote repo (its listed in <workingdir>/.hg/hgrc)... eg http://xenbits.xensource.com/xen-unstable.hg
22:29	<karsten_>	b2s: I'm doing something where I want to report what I'm seeing on the version of Xen I've got checked out locally. And I want that local version to match the source repo as closely as possible.
22:29	<karsten_>	b2s: ... so pointing a browser at a remote repo wouldn't be appropriate.
22:34	<b2s>	well, if you want the local version to match the source repo, then yes, just pull/update. I was just saying that it was a way to check if you've got tip.
22:40	[~]	mikegrb spies a karsten_
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23:02	<Cyis>	anyone got a better way to set dom0 on a private network and have the domU domains use a separate network of public IPs?
23:02	<Cyis>	currently I'm just assigning eth1 to the private IP and letting xen-br0 be created using eth0 with no IP currently assigned... seems kludgy to me
23:12	<sdague>	Cyis: that's what I do, it works very solidly
23:14	<Cyis>	sdague: yeah it appear'd to work. just seem'd a lot like a kludge to me so want'd to see if anyone else had another idea
23:15	<Cyis>	just pick'd up a bunch of 2U servers from work for cheap and planning to have them all runnin Xen and replace some of my older hardware
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---	Log	closed Wed Jan 18 00:00:23 2006