TheGrebs.com:IRC Logs:#xen:2005:04:29

---	Log	opened Fri Apr 29 00:00:27 2005
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01:51	strafbomber	hello
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04:06	strafbomber	is it possible to adjust how much cpu power a domain can use?
04:21	strafbomber	:-)
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06:54	mael	riel: ping?
06:55	riel	pong
06:55	mael	:)
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06:55	mael	sorry to bother as it not really a xen-related question, but it is a redhat one
06:56	mael	I'm about to say nasty things on behalf on RH, so I think I must ask you before :)
06:56	mael	how may I get packages for old redhat systems?
06:56	riel	try the Fedora Legacy project
06:56	mael	I need to install ntp on a redhat 8 and a redhat 9 server
06:57	soffi_	might try openntp.org
06:57	mael	unfortunately, they are "qualified" environnment, otherwise I would have installed a debian ;)
06:57	soffi_	openntpd.org
06:57	mael	so I must stick to RH8 and RH9
06:57	riel	soffi_: get real, openntpd doesn't quite work right yet with linux
06:57	soffi_	�
06:57	soffi_	sorry.. and if I recall.. I've only used it on FreeBSD ;)
06:57	Tv	riel: can you point me to something discussing the brokenness?
06:58	soffi_	didn't know of any of it's shortcomings
06:58	riel	Tv: all I have is a discussion with one of the authors over a beer at last year's SUCON
06:58	mael	hehe
06:58	riel	Tv: I don't remember all the details though
06:58		* Tv focuses the brain rays on riel
06:58	mael	so it is a pretty sure information :)
07:00	mael	mmmh
07:00	mael	s/pretty sure/trustful/?
07:00	riel	(oh, and it was some Linux strangeness - not something wrong with openntpd)
07:01		* mael is trying to improve his english (and this is a huge task)
07:01	Tv	linux clock sync is "different", IIRC
07:01	riel	Tv: indeed it is
07:01	Tv	but openntp seems to work nicely in the 1 second accuracy class.
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07:13	mael	riel: Thanks very much anyway, this URL is very useful
07:13		* mael is bookmarking the stuff
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09:16	xai	Anyone know if the stock XenU configuration will support a udev system?
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09:34	xai	I just booted my mini Centos4 (rhel4) in XenU and confirmed it works.. Anyone on the Xen site interested in putting it up on the ftp site?
09:36	xai	Its only 60MB....
09:37	xai	All the docs and most of the locales have been hand pruned.
09:38	mael	soffi_: I think this is for you man :)
09:41	xai	It only took me 2 days too. :)
09:41	mael	xai: soffi_ is the guy owning http://www.kvadratrot.net/~xen/
09:41	xai	Yum is preconfigured and confirmed to work.
09:42	mael	he does the excellent work of collecting domU images for the community
09:42	mael	so you should get in touch with him
09:42	xai	good deal..
09:44	xai	soffi_: just let me know how you want me to upload it.
09:45	xai	soffi_: i also have a stripped version of Sarge as well..
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09:47	xai	I see his are images.. mine are tbz2's.. no biggie.
09:47	xai	he has tarballs too.. i take that back..
09:48	mael	I think using tarball is better
09:49	mael	I also did the basic sarge tarball
09:50	mael	it is only 30 something Mo but the tarball on soffi_ websites contain a tgz AND a tar.bz2 version
09:51	soffi_	re:
09:51	soffi_	Yeah, I'm thinking about scubbing the images
09:51	mael	:)
09:51	mael	I know you've pretty busy lately :)
09:52	mael	+been
09:52	soffi_	better to put up a howto on making a sizeX loop image and untarring the tarballs -> image
09:52	mael	yep
09:53		* mael still hope he'll get soffi_'s feeling on the draft he wrote a few weeks ago :)
09:53	soffi_	gheheh
09:53	soffi_	I PROMISE I'll read it through this weekend
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09:53	soffi_	xai: can you scp/sftp the images ?
09:54	mael	I can write it in LaTeX if OOo format is a problem, you know :)
09:54	soffi_	ghehe no prob
10:00	xai	LaTeX rocks man.. what do you mean mael?
10:05	mael	nothing
10:05	mael	I sent a OOo document in order to get modifications traceability
10:05	mael	but diff on .tex may be enough :)
10:05	xai	i'm just ribbing ya.
10:11	xai	soffi_: what document are you guys speaking of?
10:11	mael	soffi_: ok, I have a Q'n'D tex version if you want
10:12	mael	so you won't have to compile OOo to be able to read the stuff :)
10:12	soffi_	dude don't worry I've already set up OpenOffice
10:12	soffi_	and NeoOffice
10:12	mael	oh
10:12	mael	hehe you got macosx :)
10:12	soffi_	yup
10:12	soffi_	and my Tiger should be here by monday
10:13	mael	roaaaar
10:13	mikegrb	mmm osx
10:13	mikegrb	soffi_: new camino!
10:13	soffi_	hehe
10:13	soffi_	I thought Safari was Konqueror based
10:14	mael	well actually the only reasons why I keep macosx on my powerbook is to dim the light and use 802.11g
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10:14	mael	oh, and for the suspend feature
10:14	soffi_	you are so lying
10:14	soffi_	you love Expos� and all the little gismos
10:14	mael	well no, my gnome desktop just look like osX :)
10:15		* mael use ubuntu hoary ppc on his PB
10:15	mikegrb	mmm exposé
10:16	soffi_	anyone getting exposje to work with Xen ?
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10:18	soffi_	matta-lt: troubles over? :) a relaxed weekend in sight ? :P
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10:19	matta-lt	soffi_: hrm... doubtful
10:19	matta-lt	soffi_: lession learned and shared with all, don't use FC4 :)
10:19	soffi_	hehe
10:20	soffi_	didn't -test tell you anything ? :)
10:20	hollis	:)
10:20	matta-lt	the test versions always worked fairly well for me in the past
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10:20	matta-lt	FC4 is quite drastic in what it changes
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10:20	soffi_	I've set up my VM to send me a text message everytime it starts up
10:20	matta-lt	ie. the change from 2 -> 3 wasalmost minimal
10:21	katzj	matta-lt: what are you having problems with?
10:21	matta-lt	katzj: you remember the domain.c
10:21	matta-lt	BIG at line 144 (or something) that was resolved on the list?
10:21	matta-lt	BUG
10:22	katzj	yep
10:22	matta-lt	our one server randomly started crashing due to that... even though it ran for days on end with it
10:23	matta-lt	so after testing various configs
10:23	matta-lt	(ie. copying over xen.gz and kernel from other working servers)
10:23	matta-lt	still did it
10:24	matta-lt	so since xen is included with FC4, will be the basis for waht will be in the next R
10:24	matta-lt	HEL, and Rik stating he stress tested the 1226 kernel for days...
10:24	matta-lt	I figured what the hell
10:24	matta-lt	upgraded to fc4, it all worked
10:24	matta-lt	but it seems there is problems with the FC4 kernel and my hardware... it's standard hardware, dual opt,4gb, hardware raid, e1000 and tg3 nic's
10:25	matta-lt	tyan board,etc
10:25	matta-lt	it crashes sometimes every few hours, other times every 2 days
10:25	katzj	matta-lt: x86_64?
10:25	matta-lt	so after keir released the patch... I figured to give it a go
10:25	riel	kernel 1275 with the latest xen rpm _should_ work
10:25	matta-lt	I copied the xen.gz and kernel from another working host and it booted fine
10:26	riel	though I admit I've only tried it a little ;)
10:26	matta-lt	but xend wouldn't start due to python 2.4
10:26	matta-lt	it just plain doesn't support it
10:27	matta-lt	tried compiling the 2.0-testing on it, no deals thanks to gcc4
10:27	matta-lt	even tried applying rik's own patche from the source RPM's
10:27	mael	hehe a pure murphy situation :)
10:27	matta-lt	riel: the errors I was showing you the other day... I see them under the stok FC4 kernel also, so it's not related to xen
10:28	matta-lt	so yeah, for this poor server it's been hell
10:28	soffi_	damn this machine must be haunted
10:28	matta-lt	all my other servers running FC3 + xen-testing all run nice and stable though :)
10:29	soffi_	I have a VM with a dutch company and it's at 33 days
10:29	soffi_	shit is bound to happen ;)
10:29	xai	I just created a debian-router version of sarge.. should be about 12MB in .tgz format.
10:29	xai	I think it has apt.
10:29	matta-lt	soffi_: nah, it's due to FC4... but it had to be done at the time, keir's patch to fix the problem didn't get released until 2+ weeks after this all went down
10:29	xai	Make that 21MB..
10:30	soffi_	xai: cool
10:31	soffi_	now who here told me ATAoverEthernet had shitty performance
10:31	matta-lt	soffi_: once we get the people on that server migrated i'm sure they'll be happy
10:31	soffi_	matta-lt: I hope so, or you'll be having flames all over
10:31	soffi_	damn I hate bigmouths :)
10:32	matta-lt	eh... some are cool and are like "been there, done that"
10:32	matta-lt	others are a little less rational than that :)
10:32	soffi_	hehe
10:32	mael	soffi_: you tested ATAoverEThernet?
10:32	soffi_	yep
10:32	mael	so?
10:32	soffi_	got 30mbit over a 34 mbit microwave link :)
10:33	mael	mmh
10:33	soffi_	have yet to test it over local lan
10:33	mael	yes :)
10:33	soffi_	the only machine I could use for testing was in another town ;)
10:33	soffi_	hence the mw-link
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10:33	mael	this is easier to get reproduceable tests with a lan :)
10:34	mael	IIRC it was Adam who told about it in the first place
10:34	soffi_	I just thought AoE would be cool to try out since the company's boxes are cheap
10:34	soffi_	yeah.. my guys are building me a test server as we speak
10:34	mael	and I think he had around the same speed you get
10:35	soffi_	and... AoE has FreeBSD support
10:35	mael	and what about openiscsi? did you had a look?
10:35	soffi_	FreeBSD doesn't support iscsi :/
10:35	mael	hehe yeah that's true you're a freebsd addict
10:35	soffi_	didn't take a look at iscsi
10:35	mael	k
10:35	soffi_	not an addict...
10:35	soffi_	preacher
10:36	mael	I wonder if you can have a box with a load of disks exporting it on the disk level using a iscsi daemon
10:36	mael	I don't know if they do a daemon though
10:37	soffi_	who?
10:37	mael	the openiscsi guys
10:37	soffi_	ahh is it only an initiator ?
10:38	mael	I have to check that for ages
10:38	mael	dunno presently
10:39	mael	mmh it seems so from a quick reading of their website
10:39	mael	(http://www.open-iscsi.org/)
10:39	soffi_	hmm
10:40	soffi_	gonna mail the aoe guys and see if they have any clue on howto remoteboot with pxe and aoe
10:40	mael	they merged recently with the linux-iscsi project
10:41	mael	soffi_: do you want your root device to be aoe?
10:41	mael	initrd is probably your friend there
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10:44	mael	well, time to go here
10:44	mael	see ya
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12:16	matta-lt	soffi_: why are you against iscsi again?
12:17	matta-lt	iscsi seems to be th way to go... all the benefits of FC without the proprietary hardware
12:17	matta-lt	and gigabit eth hardware is cheap these days
12:31	xai	For some reason my new debian xenU command line wraps onto itself when it reaches the end of line.. not a showstopper but annoying.
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12:34	xai	I guess its not getting the resizing from the current xterm. mayb ei need to install xutils
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13:15	knewt	errors-- # figuring out all the corner cases and coding for them is annoying and time consuming
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13:50	hollis	sigh... the bizarre GDB behavior I've been chasing is a bug in Xen's snprintf
13:50	knewt	grrrr. (Unable to handle kernel paging request at virtual address 00100104)--
13:51	aliguori	hollis: really? isn't it just linux's snprintf?
13:52	knewt	which sounds like a list problem. grrr.
13:52	hollis	aliguori: hmm, yes
13:53	hollis	aliguori: actually, it has been modified
13:54	aliguori	hollis: what's the bug?
13:54	hollis	though not too much
13:54	hollis	it's overwriting the last char of output with null
13:55	hollis	char buf[16]; snprintf(buf, 16, "%016lx", 1UL);
13:55	hollis	and the last char is NULL
13:55	aliguori	oh, is that a bug?
13:56	hollis	yes
13:57	aliguori	so you think it should leave it unterminated?
13:57	hollis	yes
13:57	hollis	but I couldn't see anything obvious, and have more interesting code to debug
13:57	aliguori	from the manpage: "Thus, a return value of size or more means that the output was truncated."
13:57	hollis	yes
13:57	aliguori	so if it's writing 16 characters, it's truncating
13:58	hollis	yes
13:58	eigood	The functions snprintf and vsnprintf do not write more than size bytes (including the trailing '\0'). If the
13:58	eigood	output was truncated due to this limit then the return value is the number of characters (not including the trailing '\0') which
13:58	eigood	would have been written to the final string if enough space had been available.
13:58	eigood	that's from the snprintf(3) manpage
13:58	hollis	yes
13:58	knewt	so it's supposed to always write out the \0
13:58	hollis	how do you figure?
13:59	eigood	knewt: not nescessarily
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13:59	knewt	eigood: well, it's what i read from the manpage anyway
13:59	eigood	\0 is part of the allowed bytes to write. if you hit the max, you can't write the \0
13:59	knewt	s/read/understand/
13:59	aliguori	see, i would expect snprintf to always null-terminate.
13:59	eigood	read the next line
14:00	eigood	it says if snprintf returns size, then that means it was truncated
14:00	eigood	which means that the trailing null wasn't written
14:00	eigood	\0 is part of the written character set, it just isn't part of the returned length
14:00	aliguori	eigood: look at the description of the size parameter
14:01	hollis	aliguori: yes...?
14:01	aliguori	"The function snprintf and vsnprintf do not write more than size bytes (including the trailing '\0').'
14:01	knewt	[[ If the output was truncated due to this limit then the return value is the number of characters (not including the trailing ’\0’) which would have been written to the final string if enough space had been available. Thus, a return value of size or more means that the output was truncated. ]]
14:01	eigood	that's what I pasted
14:01	hollis	yes, so if I tell it the buffer is 16 chars big, it had better not try to put the NULL in the 17th char
14:02	eigood	aliguori: yes. the chars to be output exquals: "buffer with inserted parameterss" + "\0"
14:02	knewt	ie, if you specify a size of 16, and it /returns/ 16, then it truncated the string
14:02	eigood	aliguori: then, you take the first $size bytes from that
14:02	aliguori	one sec, looking to see what c99 says
14:02	eigood	hollis: the argument is whether it should write 15 bytes, then the final \0
14:02		* riel figured out all the little details to keep in mind when installing FC4test3 as a xen guest
14:03	eigood	hollis: but then that means it would have to return 15, which is less then size, so truncation didn't occur
14:03	aliguori	" [#2] The snprintf function is equivalent to fprintf, except
14:03	aliguori	that the output is written into an array (specified by
14:03	aliguori	argument s) rather than to a stream. If n is zero, nothing
14:03	aliguori	is written, and s may be a null pointer. Otherwise, output
14:03	aliguori	characters beyond the n-1st are discarded rather than being
14:03	aliguori	written to the array, and a null character is written at the
14:03	aliguori	end of the characters actually written into the array. If
14:03	aliguori	copying takes place between objects that overlap, the
14:03	aliguori	behavior is undefined.
14:03	aliguori	"
14:03	aliguori	sorry for the flood
14:03	aliguori	but that's pretty clear.
14:03	hollis	yes, that is pretty clear. too bad about that man page...
14:04	eigood	aliguori: no, it isn't. is the array of chars for the source zero based or one based?>
14:04	eigood	it's probably 0(like all other c stuff), so a 16 chars gives 0 <= i < 16; with n == 16, n - 1 == 15, so the trailing null wouldn't be written
14:05	aliguori	no, it says explicitly, a null character is written at the end of the characters actually written into the array
14:05	eigood	and when you consider the n == 0 case, it doesn't write the trailing null in that case
14:05	aliguori	of course not, if n == 0 there's no memory :-)
14:05	aliguori	if you tried to write a null, you'd segv
14:07	hollis	glibc's snprintf does the same NULL termination thing
14:07	hollis	char buf[2];
14:07	hollis	snprintf(buf, 2, "%x", 0xa5);
14:07	hollis	printf("%x %x\n", buf[0], buf[1]);
14:08	knewt	eigood: of course not. "do not write more than size bytes (including the trailing ’\0’)"
14:08	hollis	so... my mistake, but I blame the man page
14:09	knewt	well, personally i always read the man page to be indicating that a trailing NULL would always be written
14:09	aliguori	hollis: for what it's worth, i would have done the same thing.. seems like it should work
14:09	hollis	knewt: but as you can see from this discussion, it is ambiguous
14:10	aliguori	c in general is not very clear about trailing nulls.. strncpy() is a notorious instance of this
14:13		* eigood pets java
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14:19	knewt	hmm. can anyone remember how to create a postscript file from plain text? in 2-up form
14:19	aliguori	2-up form?
14:20	knewt	2 pages per page
14:20	aliguori	enscript -2r -p output.ps input.txt
14:20	knewt	ah, enscript, ta. been too long
14:46	HoraPe	knewt: mpage -2
14:50	knewt	ok, source printed out. time to figure how the double-delete is happening
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15:09	---	Channel: services.oftc.net changed the topic of #xen to: Xen Homepage-> http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/Research/SRG/netos/xen/index.html \|\| Xen Wiki -> http://wiki.xensource.com \|\| vm-tools : http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/aliguori/vm-tools/
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15:40	Surferdude	Anyone know how to change the python directory that Twisted uses?
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15:48	dash	Surferdude: for the install?
15:53	xai	its getting hot
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16:18	Surferdude	dash: yes
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16:23	Surferdude	You know, it would be nice if the Xen install.sh could resolve the dependencys needed
16:28	xai	What's a good way to monitor traffic on XenU's ? I gess snmp will give stats for bridged interfaces./?
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16:29	riel	have snmp monitor the vif* interfaces ?
16:30	Surferdude	Um... dont think so
16:30	Surferdude	heres the error i am getting
16:30	Surferdude	distutils.errors.DistutilsPlatformError: invalid Python installation: unable to open /usr/lib/python2.2/config/Makefile (No such file or directory)
16:31	riel	Surferdude: use the packages distributions provide ;)
16:31	riel	Surferdude: that makes things easier
16:31	Surferdude	Thats the problem... i have RHEL >_>
16:31	Surferdude	I couldent get my hands on a test box to work with
16:31	Surferdude	so i got a dedicated server to lease
16:32	Surferdude	and they put on rhel by default
16:32	Surferdude	starting to consider putting CentOS on another partition
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16:36	riel	many ISPs have RHN access included with their RHEL installs
16:36	riel	so you _do_ have support for the updates
16:37	riel	you may want to check whether that's the case for your system
16:37	riel	ummm wait, n/m - confused with a discussion in #rhel ;)
16:37	riel	sorry
16:37	riel	which version of RHEL ?
16:38	Surferdude	3 i think
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16:39	riel	mmmm, that's harder
16:39	riel	with RHEL4 you could just rebuild the xen RPM I made for fedora rawhide
16:41	Surferdude	Whats the command to see what distro your running?
16:41	Surferdude	in ssh
16:41	riel	cat /etc/redhat-release ;)
16:41	Surferdude	Red Hat Enterprise Linux ES release 3 (Taroon)
16:42	matta-lt	bah I hate bugzillas that require reg :(
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17:02		* knewt decides this might be a wise time to stop testing on the laptop and set up a dedicated vm for it instead
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17:05	riel	matta-lt: I hate bugzillas that allow users to do hit-n-run bug reports ;)
17:05	riel	matta-lt: then you never get the details you need to actually fix a bug
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17:38	matta-lt	riel: anyhow, yes... it happens outside of xen also
17:39	matta-lt	probably not your department
17:39	eigood	riel: s/bugzills/bug systems/
17:43	edsuom	My old PC is running Gentoo distro and I am setting a new Ubuntu Linux this weekend. I want to make the existing installation (~20GB) a guest XEN OS and then migrate it to the new system. It seems like a simple kernel recompile with ARCH=xen and "xm create" and "xm migrate," running from the demo CD should work. Is that right?
17:46	niv	i haven't used migrate before - just copied the system or dd'd it
17:47	niv	the guest OS was a subset of the existing OS, since you don't want to copy over the /var/log and other dirs like that, etc
17:48	niv	if you use the demo CD, that would probably work, but haven't used it myself
17:48	niv	quite simple to do it manually
17:49	niv	arrrrrgh me typing in the wrong window
17:50	edsuom	niv: Thanks.
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17:59	eigood	migrating a real live machine to xen is rather simple
18:01	edsuom	eigood: Good to hear. Haven't seen any docs on it, though.
18:02	eigood	I've taken real machines, copied them over a t1 to an nfsroot, modified fstab, network, then booted in xen
18:02	eigood	doing the same to a block device is just about the smae
18:02	eigood	same
18:02	edsuom	Cool
18:02	eigood	the domU instance has very little mods
18:03	eigood	getting the dom0 going is not as easy as one would like, but still not difficult
18:03	eigood	I've converted lots of real machines to xen, here at work
18:04	edsuom	eigood: I was going to start from the demoCD running as dom0.
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18:05	eigood	we've moved beyond that here
18:05	eigood	of course, we run debian, and I'm the maintainer of the xen debian packages
18:05	eigood	and making bootstrap images is easy with debootstrap
18:06	edsuom	I just want to be able to poke around my ~20GB of old Gentoo setup from the new system (~120GB HDD).
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18:07	edsuom	The demoCD has a dhcp server, right?
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18:08	eigood	no clue
18:08	eigood	been so long
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18:31	eigood	demon: what happened to a?
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22:47	knewt	anyone got good suggestions of really good stress tests for block devices?
22:47	knewt	i need something that's going to do lots of simulteanous overlapping reads and writes multiple times, with verifications to make sure it's all actually worked properly
22:47	@Sir_Ahzz	multiple bonnie++ random IO runs?
22:48	@Sir_Ahzz	write a perl script that creates 50,000 randomly sized files, then forks multiple times and randomly reads them back in?
22:48	@Sir_Ahzz	either is fairly trivial for a decent admin.
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---	Log	closed Sat Apr 30 00:00:03 2005