TheGrebs.com:IRC Logs:#xen:2005:04:25

---	Log	opened Mon Apr 25 00:00:29 2005
00:21	@cw	is anyone here using glibc-2.3.4-2 with the tls changes from the xen site?
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03:09	mael	hi
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11:33		* riel looks oddly at vbd.c
11:33	riel	memset(ret, '\0', 0);
11:38	Tv	hehe
11:42	eigood	maybe that was an attempt to get later/earlier code to align on some magic boundary
11:42	eigood	one would hope gcc is smart and can optimize that away
11:42	riel	eigood: I don't think this is a "magic boundary" thing
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12:06	riel	neat, kernel-xen0 boots again on fedora rawhide ;)
12:07	murb	riel: do you get working userspace as well?
12:07	riel	murb: yes, I just upgraded something with rpm
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12:23	riel	beautiful, I got "xm create" to oops in set_page_dirty() ;)
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13:59	matta	riel: you are updating it to a recent -unstable?
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14:03	riel	matta: yes, last night's snapshot
14:04	riel	xen-2-20050424 and kernel-2.6.11-1.1262_FC4
14:11	@cw	riel: are you using the glibc with the tls patch?
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14:13	riel	dunno ;)
14:13	riel	what I care about now is fixing the oops on munmaping /proc/xen/privcmd ;)
14:16	eigood	you're mmaping it?
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14:17	riel	eigood: xend is
14:17	riel	mmap2(NULL, 4096, PROT_WRITE, MAP_SHARED, 17, 0) = 0xb79cc000
14:17	riel	ioctl(17, SNDCTL_DSP_SPEED or SOUND_PCM_READ_RATE, 0xbfa8dd70) = 0
14:17	riel	munmap(0xb79cc000, 4096
14:17	riel	BOOM
14:18	riel	the ioctl number is probably IOCTL_PRIVCMD_MMAP
14:18	riel	yes, it is
14:32	riel	YUCK
14:32	riel	so we mmap /proc/xen/privcmd
14:32	riel	and then we call an IOCTL to actually populate the mapping with pages
14:33	riel	since we can't handle page faults at run time, and the mapping doesn't get set up at mmap time either
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16:01		* riel cries
16:02	riel	this is a horrid mess
16:08	matta	eh?
16:08	eigood	looking at dpkg source?
16:08	riel	no, drivers/xen/privmsg/privmsg.c
16:08	matta	is it mainly gcc 4 issues?
16:09	riel	in order to use an mmaped area through /proc/xen/privmsg, you:
16:09	riel	1) open the file
16:09	riel	2) mmap it
16:09	riel	3) call an IOCTL to populate the mmap !
16:09	riel	of course, it oopses on munmap
16:09	eigood	can you even mmap files in /proc?
16:09	eigood	is that allowed thru the procfs interface?
16:10	riel	mmap2(NULL, 4096, PROT_WRITE, MAP_SHARED, 17, 0) = 0xb79cc000
16:10	riel	yes ;)
16:10	riel	providing the file has an fops->mmap function
16:12	eigood	so maybe the xen people don't know how to write said function
16:13	riel	they have that one
16:13	riel	otherwise the mmap2() above wouldn't have succeeded
16:13	eigood	besides, this file sounds like it really needs to be in /dev
16:13	riel	that's besides the point
16:14	riel	the problem is that it oopses on munmap
16:14	eigood	so the ioctl isn't doing the same structure mods as mmap
16:15	riel	it _is_ doing mmap
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18:16	amr	newbie question. Does the default binary install come with an image for domain 0; or must an image be installed to boot domain 0 with the binary files.
18:25	@cw	amr: dom0 usually ends up being your existing installation
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18:39	xai	is it possible to access physical devices in xen0 from a xenU?
18:40	xai	for some reason the faq is down.
18:40	xai	The requested URL /Research/SRG/netos/xen/faq.html was not found on this server.
18:42	rharper	xai: try: http://wiki.xensource.com/xenwiki/XenFaq
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21:49	xai	Where are premade images of fedora, slackware, or rhel? if any..
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22:25	aliguori	does anyone here boot their root partitions off of lvm? i've been doing it with devfs but devfs seems to be completely non-functional in the latest version of xen-unstable
22:25	aliguori	i can't seem to figure out how to do it without devfs in gentoo..
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22:47	aliguori	hey rusty, how's the registry coming along?
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23:07	matta	aliguori: how's the next vm-tools version coming along? :)
23:08	caker	aliguori: I'm using LVM root, yes
23:08	matta	LVM for dom0 or domU ?
23:08	caker	aliguori: http://www.theshore.net/~caker/initrd-build.tar.gz, universal initrd for LVM root goodness (dom0)
23:11	aliguori	matta: lvm for dom0
23:12	aliguori	caker: oh, thanks, let me give it a try
23:12	aliguori	matta: good actually, I'm attempting to put out a "preview" release but I'm having trouble testing against the latest xen-unstable :-)
23:19	aliguori	matta: i've got vm-tools working with -unstable and 2.0.x.. it's missing some a lot of polish and some device support but it's a big step in the right direction
23:19		* caker drools for a replacement for xend
23:20	caker	http://www.theshore.net/~caker/xen/host27.linode.com-memory-week.png <-- my latest xend memory usage graph
23:21	aliguori	caker: nuts
23:21	caker	I'd move to -unstable, but at the moment it's too ... unstable
23:21	aliguori	caker: what features of xend do you use?
23:22	aliguori	what would vm-tools need to do (under 2.0.x) for you to switch?
23:22	caker	aliguori: that causes the memory increase? I poll xm info ..
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23:22	caker	aliguori: ahh -- just the basics, plus bvt tweaking and suspend
23:23	aliguori	yeah, that's what i figure most users need.
23:23	aliguori	caker: how much bvt tweaking do you do?
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23:24	aliguori	we've been discussing internally how much to expose for modifying scheduler parameters.. i didn't think most people would do much more than adjust a simply weighting
23:24	caker	aliguori: none, currently but was hoping to mess with it
23:24	aliguori	ahh :-)
23:24	matta	aliguori: I just use the very basics
23:24	caker	aliguori: that's all I'm after .. basic weight tweaking
23:24	matta	create, destroy, shutdown, list, info
23:25	matta-lt	caker: you can read the lists, BVT tuning has came up many oftimes.
23:25	aliguori	the cambridge guys are working on yet another scheduler
23:25	matta-lt	it is the replacement for atropos right?
23:25	matta-lt	i forget the name
23:26	matta-lt	I think BVT works very well actually
23:26	aliguori	i'd rather not have to explain how to tweak 3 different schedulers in the docs
23:26	matta-lt	you just need to understand how it's arcaic settings are and what should be what
23:26	aliguori	matta-lt: i thought it was a replaced for both atropos and bvt.. honestly, i don't know why you need atropos with a proper bvt scheduler
23:26	matta-lt	aliguori: RR is easy, i'm pretty suring atropos is going away
23:26	aliguori	bvt can do, at least the original paper claims, soft real time scheduling
23:26	matta-lt	yeah
23:27	aliguori	matta-lt: I don't consider RR to even be a choice :-)
23:27	matta-lt	using my tuned BVT scheduler I can say nothing bad about it.
23:27	aliguori	i don't know why it hasn't been removed
23:27	matta-lt	it's for demonstration only
23:27	matta-lt	sort of like a template on which to build on...
23:28	matta-lt	Xen's QoS has really impressed me
23:28	matta-lt	i've used Virtuozzo which is a commercial VM-type software
23:28	matta-lt	whivch touts all kinds of QoS
23:28	aliguori	matta-lt: QoS is what a hypervisor should be all about :-)
23:28	matta-lt	and on my test server here .. i'd say xen handles more demanding loads gracefully
23:29	matta-lt	that is tuning a lot though
23:29	matta-lt	lots of benchmarks to see what performs best
23:29		* caker mumbles something about needing disk QoS
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23:29	matta-lt	caker: disk QoS works fine
23:29	matta-lt	if anything setting separate priorities fro each VM rather than round robin would be nice
23:29	aliguori	I'm quite impressed with BVT.. I think it works well.. I understand the new scheduler is more smp aware though
23:30	matta-lt	but it's still way better than the disk I/O scheduler in virtuozzo
23:30	matta-lt	that was where it lagged
23:30	matta-lt	as far as CPU QoS Virtuozzo was definitely as good as xen
23:30	caker	matta-lt: so what do you guys do why a node is thrashing like made without any ability compensate?
23:30	caker	*mad
23:30	aliguori	matta-lt: i think hardware is going to be the answer for I/O scheduling.. there's a lot of interesting IO virtualization hardware on the horizon
23:31	matta-lt	have a disk sub-system that is capable of 100MB/s+ helps
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23:32	matta-lt	aliguori: well, the linux kernels disk I/O schedulers seem to be useful
23:33	matta-lt	caker: i can't really explain it... we have tons of VM's that are swapping like mad
23:33	caker	hmm
23:33	caker	matta-lt: and you just use LVM partitions fed into the domU's right?
23:33	caker	matta-lt: how much memory to you allocate to dom0?
23:33	matta-lt	most hosts run at a constant 5MB/s in and/r ut
23:33	aliguori	matta-lt: do you have hyperthreading enabled?
23:34	matta-lt	aliguori: I use Opteron's
23:34	aliguori	oh
23:34	aliguori	matta-lt: have you tried x86_64 yet? :-)
23:34	matta-lt	aliguori: no.... am definitely looking forwar to it
23:35	matta-lt	I guess you IBM guys ae pretty dead set on making sure 32-bit domU's run on a 64-bit xen
23:35	aliguori	uh... we've certainly discussed it :-)
23:35	aliguori	there are some other core things that are probably more important though
23:35	matta-lt	and that was my only thing I wanted, I just want xen 64-bit so I can address >4GB RAM
23:35	aliguori	like pae
23:36	matta-lt	aliguori: it was on a doc one of the ibm people sent out
23:36	matta-lt	the IBM internal requirements or something
23:36	matta-lt	yeah, PAE might even work out
23:36	matta-lt	esp if it gets pushed into 2.x
23:36	matta-lt	PAE has always been a hack though
23:36	matta-lt	for xen it should work fine though
23:36	aliguori	matta-lt: oh, mike day's requirements.. those actually weren't just ibm requirements.. the idea was for all the companies involved in xen to get together to develop common requirements
23:37	matta-lt	my experience with8-16GB RAM ssytems was for oraclesevers
23:37	aliguori	there was actually an initial requirements doc created by HP I believe a few months ago
23:37	matta-lt	and PAE each process can only address 4GB RAM
23:37	matta-lt	er, each process run on a system where PAE is enabled is better
23:38	aliguori	well, as many have pointed out, there's a ton of PAE hardware out there
23:38	aliguori	so it's one of those ugly requirements :-/
23:38	matta-lt	yeah
23:38	matta-lt	and for xen it would work out
23:38	matta-lt	my largest VM's are only 512MB
23:38	matta-lt	so evenif there was a requirement that each VM was limited to 4GB
23:38	matta-lt	since in xen sense a domain is "sort of" like a process
23:39	aliguori	initial pae support is going to probably require all domUs to be PAE aware
23:39	matta-lt	oh
23:39	aliguori	that kind of sucks, but it's a start
23:40	aliguori	ideally, you want to shadow the guests so that if a domU uses < 4GB of memory, it doesn't have to be pae aware
23:40	matta-lt	you'd like it to be less intrusive code?
23:40	aliguori	well, it sucks to turn on pae if you don't actually use it
23:40	matta-lt	oh
23:40	matta-lt	i see
23:40	matta-lt	so in the kernel config
23:40	aliguori	yeah
23:40	matta-lt	each would have to be set to 16GB or higher
23:41	matta-lt	for it's memory limit setting
23:41	matta-lt	that doesn't sound too bad, having to change the source of the xenU kernel sucks since it is more to keep in sync with the linux kernel releases
23:42	matta-lt	hrm, but I guess PAE support would reside entirely in arch
23:42	aliguori	eh
23:42	aliguori	xen doesn't separate arch stuff very well
23:42	aliguori	pae support requires changes in arch, but then also changes in a bunch of the userspace stuff
23:43	matta-lt	aliguori: how is vm-tools using the cpu_weight variable in the config files?
23:43	matta-lt	same method?
23:43	aliguori	matta-lt: as xend, yes
23:43	aliguori	but that's changing.
23:43	aliguori	:-)
23:43	matta-lt	I have been maintaining my own patch...
23:44	aliguori	yeah, unfortunately, we can't take patches... stupid lawyers.
23:44	matta-lt	it's a very minor, perhaps just me
23:44	aliguori	hopefully, we'll work things out and get vm-tools into the xen tree
23:44	matta-lt	but I changed where CPU weight is calculated by the value / 10
23:44	matta-lt	I canged 10 to 1000
23:44	aliguori	huh
23:44	matta-lt	when / 10 only values 1-10 are actually useful
23:44	aliguori	i didn't even know it did that at all
23:45		* aliguori looks in cvs
23:45	matta-lt	and the xm bvt command will only let you go as 'low' as 0
23:45	matta-lt	whereas a weight of let's say 20
23:45	matta-lt	would be bvt .5
23:45	matta-lt	equiv in dom0
23:45	matta-lt	and you always want dom0 to not be starved as it maintains the disks and network
23:46	aliguori	oh, see, i don't think weight is the best thing for bvt
23:46	aliguori	b/c you really want to assign two values
23:46	matta-lt	well, that's what it is....
23:46	aliguori	weight, and then responsiveness i guess
23:46	matta-lt	that's why it warp
23:47	aliguori	yeah
23:47	matta-lt	tuning warp and it's vales are important
23:47	matta-lt	as i've found
23:47	aliguori	yup
23:47	matta-lt	perhaps stuff like that is why I think Xen QoS rocks
23:47	aliguori	:-)
23:47	matta-lt	it took a lot of research to figure out what the hell those values all mean
23:48	aliguori	yeah, xen is still in the early adopter phase :-)
23:48	matta-lt	anyhow, changing to 1000 vs 10 basically makes values of 0 - 1000 useable
23:48	aliguori	sure, makes sense
23:48	matta-lt	and means you can give dom0 max weight with 0
23:49	matta-lt	hrm, maybe that is 0-100 usable
23:49	aliguori	i hope they put more info out about the new scheduler
23:49	aliguori	let me try this initrd, brb
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23:53	aliguori	:-/ no dice
23:54	caker	aliguori: you tweaked the grub variables?
23:54	caker	aliguori: you might need to make some dev nodes inside the initrd .. I think it currently only has hd*
23:54	aliguori	stupid user error.. wrong kernel config
23:55	aliguori	ramdisk too small.. xen's default config is pretty crappy
23:55	caker	ahh
23:56	aliguori	i have my own config but apparently i didn't cp it over after doing an mrproper
23:56	caker	add ramdisk_size=10240 to your xeno module line
23:57	caker	module /vmlinuz-testing root=/dev/ram0 lvm2root=/dev/vg1/root elevator=cfq ramdisk_size=10240
23:57	aliguori	caker: i need to compile in support for my hardware anyway
23:57	caker	for example
23:57	aliguori	otherwise i'm gonna be using pio :-)
23:57	caker	nod
23:57	aliguori	which i don't really want :-)
23:57	aliguori	caker: so do you use lvm for dom0?
23:57	caker	aliguori: yup
23:57	aliguori	i've been really happy with this setup.. i just wish i could get rid of the boot partition
23:58	matta-lt	i don't quite see the benefit of LVM for dom0
23:58	matta-lt	my dom0's are braindead... I just give 10GB and some swap and they're fine
23:58	matta-lt	and use LVM for domU's
23:58	aliguori	matta-lt: i have multiple dom0's that i develop on.. i've had to resize a few times already
23:59	matta-lt	ahh....
23:59	matta-lt	yeah, for development that makes sense
23:59	aliguori	in production, yeah, i probably wouldn't use lvm for dom0
23:59	---	<<-- lilo [~lilo@lilo.usercloak.oftc.net] has quit (Quit: brb)
---	Log	closed Tue Apr 26 00:00:46 2005