TheGrebs.com:IRC Logs:#xen:2005:03:18

---	Log	opened Fri Mar 18 00:00:34 2005
00:13	---	---> ijuz__ [~ijuz@p54ABFE48.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #xen
00:20	---	<<-- ijuz_ [~ijuz@p54ABBB3C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
02:54	---	<<-- sh0n [~sh0n@CPEdeadbeef0000-CM000039d4cc6a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
05:21	---	---> deac [~deac@xdsl-84-44-148-142.netcologne.de] has joined #xen
07:52	---	<<-- lilo_ [~lilo@lilo.usercloak.oftc.net] has quit (Quit: brb)
08:16	---	<<-- deac [~deac@xdsl-84-44-148-142.netcologne.de] has quit (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
08:28	---	---> deac [~deac@xdsl-195-14-200-192.netcologne.de] has joined #xen
09:38	---	---> hollis [~hollis@user-0vvde2g.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #xen
11:13	---	<<-- hollis [~hollis@user-0vvde2g.cable.mindspring.com] has quit (Quit: leaving)
12:50	---	---> monrad [~monrad@213083190130.sonofon.dk] has joined #xen
12:54	---	---> ShawnWork [~c0db680a@CPEdeadbeef0000-CM000039d4cc6a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #xen
12:54	ShawnWork	Can Xen use PXE boot?
13:03	visik7	do u want to boot xen in an harddiskless machine or what ?
13:04	ShawnWork	well install a distribution over PXE
13:05	visik7	so you have 10 machines and u want install Xen on it via a PXE ?
13:06	visik7	am I right ?
13:06	ShawnWork	well I first have to figure out how to install it with no distribution
13:06	visik7	more or less :)
13:06	ShawnWork	see rocksclusters.org/Rocks
13:06	ShawnWork	but you can't install via CD-ROM since XEN doesn't emulate a bios bootup :(
13:08	visik7	mm
13:08	ShawnWork	but if grub can boot from CD
13:08	ShawnWork	SYSLINUX or some other boot up
13:08	visik7	ok I can't figure out how you want use rocksclusters with xen
13:09	ShawnWork	well install a frontend machine in one domain and a compute node in another domain
13:09	visik7	ok so 1 phiscal machine
13:10	ShawnWork	yes
13:10	visik7	so just boot a domU kernel with the rootfs of rocksclusters
13:11	ShawnWork	assuming I have a rootfs :)
13:11	ShawnWork	Xen can't boot CDs correct?
13:11	visik7	quite obvious
13:11	ShawnWork	there is no boot up loader
13:12	visik7	run rockscluster and copy the entire FS on a loopfs in your HD
13:12	visik7	but
13:12	visik7	mmm
13:12	visik7	let me se
13:12	ShawnWork	could be done yes dd the disk
13:13	ShawnWork	not easy to do...
13:13	visik7	not easy ?
13:13	visik7	what's the problem ?
13:14	visik7	rockclusters is a livecd based on what kind of cluster architecture ?
13:14	visik7	mosix ?
13:14	visik7	or what ?
13:16	visik7	or it's a series of userspace tools ?
13:19	ShawnWork	its a bewulf cluster
13:19	ShawnWork	not livecd
13:20	visik7	mmm
13:20	visik7	ok
13:20	visik7	bewulf need a kernel patch am I right ?
13:20	ShawnWork	no
13:20	visik7	no ?
13:20	ShawnWork	no kernel patches needed
13:22	visik7	IIRC beowulf need applications written for it to run in "cluster mode" am I right?
13:26	visik7	or not ?
13:31	visik7	hei are u still there?
13:32	ShawnWork	yup
13:32	ShawnWork	eatting pizza ;)
13:32	ShawnWork	I Need to figure out how to install from a CD with XEN
13:33	visik7	anyway
13:34	visik7	beowulf need applications written for it to run
13:34	visik7	or not ?
13:34	ShawnWork	no
13:34	ShawnWork	im talking MPI stuff
13:34	visik7	I dunno nothing about beowulf clustering
13:35	ShawnWork	wait can you load a CD with Xen? if its an ISO image?
13:35	ShawnWork	mounted as a loop?
13:35	visik7	probably
13:36	visik7	dunno if it's the right way
13:36	visik7	I mean: a CD is an Iso9660 FS
13:37	visik7	anyway
13:37	visik7	try it
13:37	ShawnWork	yes
13:38	visik7	where can I get beowulf tools ?
13:38	ShawnWork	rocksclusters is nice
13:39	visik7	a part from it
13:40	ShawnWork	gurb
13:40	ShawnWork	grub
13:40	ShawnWork	grub with PXE with xen
13:47	visik7	mm I'm lookin' around and see that softwares need to be written for Beowulf Clustering, unlike in openmosix where u can run on it any software that forking itself, MPI is a sort of library to be able to run a software on many nodes
13:47	visik7	or not ?
13:50	---	---> lutchann [~lutchann@pool-71-240-15-110.pitt.east.verizon.net] has joined #xen
13:51	ShawnWork	lutchann!
13:52	lutchann	hiya
13:52	ShawnWork	whats up
13:52	lutchann	Just came over to see if anything interesting was happening. :-)
13:52	ShawnWork	heh, im trying to figure how to to PXE boot with Xen
13:52	lutchann	...
13:52	ShawnWork	grub with PXE
13:52	lutchann	I don't think you can.
13:52	ShawnWork	so i can do a compute node install
13:53	ShawnWork	well Xen supports diskless systems
13:53	lutchann	It does?
13:53	lutchann	Oh! You want to BOOT Xen with PXE
13:53	ShawnWork	people have gotten it to work with pxe-grub
13:53	ShawnWork	ya
13:53	ShawnWork	using a CD rom initrd.gz image
13:53	lutchann	I thought you wanted VMs to boot with PXE.
13:53	ShawnWork	well, I dont think that can be done :(
13:54	lutchann	Right
13:54	lutchann	Although it'd be reeeeeel nice to have GRUB or some such loading the kernel, instead of having dom0 do all the initial image construction.
13:55	lutchann	Probably it would have to be some totally new kind of "bootloader". :-)
13:55	ShawnWork	don't know if we can do that or not
13:55	lutchann	I just don't like having my dom0 mount the VM's filesystem to get the kernel out.
13:55	ShawnWork	so we can't somehow add PXE support ?
13:56	ShawnWork	we don't have a bios to emulate/run
13:56	lutchann	Well all existing bootloaders expect to run in real mode and talk directly to hardware...
13:56	ShawnWork	Xen doesnt emulate hardware though
13:57	lutchann	Right, so I don't think there's much in existing bootloaders that would be useful.
13:58	ShawnWork	but could it be possible to have a Xen bootloader?
13:58	visik7	use the iso as a loopback fs and run xen on it
13:58	ShawnWork	that would install a server yes
13:59	ShawnWork	but what about compute nodes which need to PXE to get their kernel?
13:59	ShawnWork	nodes with no grub
14:05	schweeb	ShawnWork: only way to find out if it works is to try it
14:06	ShawnWork	or should I use UML to do that end
14:08	schweeb	isn't the main Xen kernel (hypervisor?) linux based? should be able to get it working the same way as a normal kernel... although I've not done it myself... there's lots of howtos online
14:09	ShawnWork	yes, but a compute node has no OS or kernel
14:10	ShawnWork	it has to TFTP/PXE boot
14:10	schweeb	right...
14:10	ShawnWork	and there is no bios
14:10	schweeb	you have to do something to a kernel to make it PXE bootable
14:10	ShawnWork	but the chicken and the egg
14:10	schweeb	what exactly do you mean by "compute node"?
14:10	ShawnWork	a empty computer that gets installed from another machine
14:11	ShawnWork	whos purpose is to compute jobs
14:11	schweeb	chicken and egg? you set up a PXE server, and PXE enable the kernel... then set up the client to boot from it
14:11	schweeb	no chicken and egg about it
14:11	ShawnWork	how will he client get a kernel?
14:12	ShawnWork	there will be two domains
14:12	schweeb	PXE (tftp?) sends the kernel
14:12	ShawnWork	on for a frontend which has dhcp and TFTP listening
14:12	ShawnWork	the second is a empty disk that needs to have emulated network PXE
14:13	schweeb	?
14:13	ShawnWork	think: diskless
14:13	schweeb	right
14:13	schweeb	which is what PXE does for you...
14:14	schweeb	PXE downloads a kernel image to RAM and executes it
14:14	ShawnWork	but you need a network card
14:14	ShawnWork	and Xen doesnt have a network
14:14	ShawnWork	there is no bios to boot
14:14	schweeb	are you trying to PXE boot from the same machine?
14:14	ShawnWork	yes
14:15	schweeb	why?
14:15	schweeb	that makes no sense
14:15	ShawnWork	because i am testnig frontend to compute node installation
14:15	ShawnWork	Host { Frontend (PXE, TFTP), Compute node}
14:15	schweeb	you could accomplish the same thing with NFS root
14:16	ShawnWork	see: www.rocksclusters.org/Rocks/
14:16	schweeb	all PXE does for you is grabs the kernel... after that, the kernel takes over
14:16	ShawnWork	but what will do the PXE
14:16	schweeb	you need real hardware for that
14:16	ShawnWork	but the real hardware is in use by the host
14:17	schweeb	if you need to test the PXE portion, use VMWare or something
14:17	ShawnWork	I did use Vmware
14:17	schweeb	I think you're overthinking things
14:17	ShawnWork	I was hoping Xen could let me do something like this yet
14:17	ShawnWork	perhaps UML I should try
14:17	schweeb	UML won't do PXE either...
14:18	ShawnWork	argh
14:18	schweeb	you need a complete x86 virtualized system, that handles PXE... VMWare... QEmu or BOCHS might do it, dunno
14:20	ShawnWork	so we cant emulate a PXE boot setup in Xen
14:20	schweeb	it may be possible, but not that I could think of
14:20	ShawnWork	where is the xen hypervisor itself could do PXE
14:20	plars	ok, I've managed to do this before in a stupid way, but what's the "right" way to make xen use eth1 in dom0?
14:20	schweeb	you'd need a userspace bootloader
14:21	schweeb	I think
14:21	plars	if I don't do anything, I just get xen-br0 and my guests don't work
14:21	ShawnWork	userspace bootloader
14:21	ShawnWork	hmm interesting
14:22	ShawnWork	well Kexec
14:23	visik7	ShawnWork for nodes don't need pxe to get their kernel
14:23	schweeb	which is kinda what I was trying to say
14:24	visik7	as soon as you run a domU the kernel is there
14:24	visik7	and u just need the rootfs that u can get from nfs
14:24	ShawnWork	but you miss something
14:24	schweeb	which is what I said :D
14:24	visik7	ShawnWork what ?
14:24	ShawnWork	the kernel is there, but what about the domU's IP and the initrd.gz ?
14:25	visik7	u can pass parameter to the kernel boot
14:25	visik7	like initrd
14:25	ShawnWork	what parameter?
14:25	schweeb	the xen utils take care of IPs and initrd type stuff
14:25	ShawnWork	we dont know anything at that stage
14:26	ShawnWork	do you know how Red Hat kickstart works?
14:26	visik7	to pass the initrd to a domU configure it
14:26	schweeb	you do understand that kernels must be modified to work under Xen, right? so you're not using the exact same kernel you would be using to boot real hardware
14:26	ShawnWork	yes
14:26	schweeb	so I don't see your point in testing out the full PXE process in the first place then
14:26	ShawnWork	but dom0 and domU need to send data to each other over network
14:26	schweeb	root-NFS does the exact same thing
14:27	ShawnWork	you cannot use root-NFS
14:27	schweeb	except the xenU kernel is started from xen0, rather than PXE downloading it on real hardware
14:27	schweeb	why the hell not?
14:27	visik7	ShawnWork if u want andvice run a normal domU play with it and when u understand how the whole things work u'll be able to solve this problem
14:27	ShawnWork	because Red Hat kickstart wont work
14:28	schweeb	xen exposes a network interface to the kernel, so it can mount the fs...
14:28	schweeb	I've not used kickstart, but I'm pretty sure you're mistaken
14:29	visik7	ShawnWork do u have a Xen Box up and running ?
14:29	ShawnWork	not yet
14:29	visik7	so bring it up play with it and than everything will be clear
14:29	ShawnWork	compiling it now
14:29	schweeb	you should try A) Xen, and B) LTSP
14:29	ShawnWork	LTSP with xen?
14:29	schweeb	no
14:29	schweeb	separately
14:30	ShawnWork	I'll try Xen first
14:30	schweeb	then you'll understand more completely how Xen's virtualization works, and how PXE and root-nfs work
14:30	---	<<-- ShawnWork [~c0db680a@CPEdeadbeef0000-CM000039d4cc6a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit (Quit: CGI:IRC)
14:30	---	---> ShawnWork [~c0db680a@CPEdeadbeef0000-CM000039d4cc6a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #xen
14:31	ShawnWork	oops
14:31	visik7	kernel oops ? :)
14:31	ShawnWork	cgi:irc
14:31	schweeb	redhat's kickstart should just be an executable... so you should be able to mount the fs via nfs (like kickstart prolly does) and execute their binary
14:32	ShawnWork	another app stole the webpage
14:32	ShawnWork	I need to see that first
14:32	ShawnWork	a compute node in Rocks is a dummy PC
14:32	ShawnWork	no partition nothing
14:32	schweeb	and isn't kickstart just their system to populate the installer with answers? I didnt' think it had anything to do with PXE
14:33	schweeb	you could /run/ it over PXE, but I didn't think PXE was a part of it
14:33	ShawnWork	when you boot it, you use PXE to get an IP, kernel and initrd.gz which then installs the OS on to the system remotely.
14:34	schweeb	http://www.redhat.com/docs/manuals/linux/RHL-7.3-Manual/custom-guide/ch-kickstart2.html
14:34	schweeb	that page says differently
14:34	ShawnWork	this is modifed ;)
14:34	ShawnWork	see www.rocksclusters.org/Rocks/ Manual
14:38	ShawnWork	http://syslinux.zytor.com/archives/2004-July/003813.html
14:38	ShawnWork	[syslinux] Loading Xen with PXELinux
14:39	ShawnWork	UNDI driver?
14:46	schweeb	it's just as I thought
14:47	schweeb	it doesn't load the kickstart file until after the kernel is loaded from PXE/CD/Floppy-PXE
14:47	schweeb	it's the same as RH's regular kickstart...
14:49	ShawnWork	so I can use Xen?
14:50	schweeb	yea, should be able to
14:51	ShawnWork	now i need to figure out how
14:51	schweeb	I mean, you'll have to do a bit of work to get it working
14:51	schweeb	but it'll work
14:51	schweeb	well
14:51	schweeb	I can't say that for certain
14:52	schweeb	cause their kernel is likely modified
14:52	schweeb	most clustering kernels are afaik
14:52	---	<<-- deac [~deac@xdsl-195-14-200-192.netcologne.de] has quit (Quit: Leaving)
14:52	schweeb	so you'll have to see if rocks+xen patches play well together
15:12	ShawnWork	any GUI frontends for xen?
15:15	schweeb	there's a web interface
15:37	---	---> hollis [~hollis@pixpat.austin.ibm.com] has joined #xen
15:41	---	---> deac [~deac@xdsl-213-196-206-164.netcologne.de] has joined #xen
15:47	ijuz__	ShawnWork: did you allready try with grub? imo it should just work
15:49	---	User: *** ijuz__ is now known as ijuz
15:54	schweeb	ijuz: he's trying to boot guests via PXE, which makes not so much sense
15:59	atari	hm...
15:59	atari	is it possible to attach xen directly to an interface without a bridge?
16:00	ijuz	oh, guests
16:00	ijuz	ShawnWork: you have to port grub to xen :)
16:02	schweeb	or some form of PXE bootloader
16:34	---	User: *** anticw is now known as cw
16:35	cw	booting Xen guests via PXE doesnt make much sense
16:35	cw	im not even sure how/why you would go about this
16:35	ijuz	well, this way everything could come from a central server...
16:35	ijuz	on the other side you can also get the config files from there
16:36	cw	none of that requires PXE
16:36	cw	we are talking about booting domU PXE not dom0 right?
16:37	ijuz	i think so
16:37	cw	i really have no idea why anyone would want to do that, it's overly complicated and not needed
16:37	cw	once dom0 is up you can boot domU's in an manner of sane ways
16:51	atari	hm...
16:56	ShawnWork	ugh
16:56	ShawnWork	Xen sorta works in 2.6.11.4
16:56	ShawnWork	however, i cant get console to any domain
16:56	ShawnWork	;-)
16:57	ShawnWork	Im gonig to wait until Xen goes into 2.6 mainline
16:57	ijuz	ShawnWork: the unstable xen seems to have a 2.6.11 patch
16:58	ShawnWork	hmm
16:58	ShawnWork	I wish a XEN howto was out there for 2.0
16:59	ShawnWork	its confusing ;)
16:59	ijuz	you could write it! :)
16:59	ijuz	actually i can't get network working
16:59	ShawnWork	neither
17:00	ShawnWork	i can get a dhcp lease
17:00	ShawnWork	but i can't ping anything from the host
17:00	ShawnWork	cw: a usermode bootloader?
17:00	ijuz	ShawnWork: like on my box
17:01	ShawnWork	cw: well im trying to debug a cluster
17:01	ShawnWork	rocksclusters.org/Rocks is a Linux distribution (Red Hat) that builds a cluster network for HPC
17:01	ShawnWork	problem is, it uses PXE to bootstrap compute nodes from a frontent/central server
17:02	ShawnWork	sure, vmware works fine but slow dogs
17:02	ShawnWork	UML cant do PXE booting so thats out
17:02	ijuz	anyway, if it uses PXE there is also a kernel and a initrd
17:02	ShawnWork	yeah but you need a way to get the initrd
17:03	ijuz	is it dynamically created?
17:03	ShawnWork	no
17:04	ShawnWork	its in /tftplinux directory on a frontend/central server
17:04	ijuz	so put it there where the kernel is
17:04	ShawnWork	put it where though?
17:04	ShawnWork	in my xen config file?
17:05	ijuz	... probably
17:05	ShawnWork	I can boot from a CD ISO no?
17:05	ShawnWork	make it a 'disk'
17:06	ijuz	yes, look at the template in /etc/xen
17:06	ijuz	it can use a initrd
17:06	ShawnWork	so I'll extract the initrd.gz from the CD
17:06	ijuz	booting from iso doesn't help so much, because you need a special kernel
17:07	ShawnWork	hmmm
17:10	ijuz	but first you have to get networking working, otherwise it's useless anyway
17:12	ShawnWork	let's see if the CD's initrd works
17:12	ShawnWork	it ignored it?
17:13	ShawnWork	oh
17:13	ShawnWork	i didnt boot it yet
17:14	cw	ShawnWork: i dont know about rockslinux
17:15	cw	ShawnWork: basically inside dom0 get the conf/details to boot the domUs and poke them into an initramfs image or whatever and boot domu that way i guess
17:15	cw	ShawnWork: i assume these are all diskless?
17:16	ShawnWork	disk
17:16	ShawnWork	but initially a empty disk
17:16	ijuz	cw: is there any trick to get networking working? i followed the user manual step by step to set up a debian virtual machine... and network doesn't work
17:16	cw	so you want to boot dom0 or using PXE then?
17:17	ShawnWork	dom0 is the host correct?
17:17	cw	ShawnWork: yes
17:17	ShawnWork	dom0 wont have DHCP/PXE booting
17:17	ShawnWork	its the frontend/compute node inside dom0 that will
17:17	ShawnWork	so its a small isolated cluster inside a host
17:17	cw	ShawnWork: well, dom0 boots all other domains, so that should be easy
17:18	cw	ShawnWork: you're making a cluster inside a single machine?
17:18	ShawnWork	yes
17:18	ShawnWork	testing frontend/compute node
17:18	ShawnWork	as vmware can do currently, but slow
17:19	ShawnWork	the problem is if Xen can do this or not (yet)
17:19	cw	ShawnWork: do 'what' exactly?
17:19	ShawnWork	allow me to:
17:19	ShawnWork	1) install from a CD ISO image a new distribution to a flat disk file image
17:20	ShawnWork	2) boot that new distribution and have it become a central install server (kickstart server)
17:20	ShawnWork	3) bootstrap a compute node (another domain) from the central install server using PXE or some mechanism to get the initrd.gz image across
17:21	ShawnWork	I dont think xen can do it nor is designed to
17:21	cw	(1) is booting which domain? dom0?
17:21	ShawnWork	dom1
17:21	ShawnWork	the host is debian
17:22	ShawnWork	we dont touch the host (dom0)
17:22	ShawnWork	host [ frontend \| compute ]
17:22	cw	ok, so dom0 boots of disk, dom1 ideally from an ISO image, dom2...n over the network from dom1 ?
17:22	ShawnWork	yes
17:22	ShawnWork	bingo
17:22	cw	shouldn't be a problem
17:22	ShawnWork	i dont know if Xen can do this?
17:23	cw	yes, but not exactly the way you want to
17:23	ShawnWork	hehe
17:23	ShawnWork	<- confused
17:23	cw	in fact, using Xen for this should be easier than mucking about other ways
17:24	cw	boot dom0 from disk, for dom1 it depends if it will boot/install into domU/xen cleanly, if not, you will need to fix the distro
17:24	ShawnWork	seems harder
17:24	cw	once you've done that you can strap dom1 from dom0 and for dom2...n use initramfs and nfsroot/whatever from dom1 is you like
17:24	ShawnWork	well, you cant install a distribution with an ISO image in dom1?
17:24	cw	nope
17:24	cw	well, probably not... it's not desirable either
17:25	ShawnWork	since we dont have a bios couldn't xen virtualize a userspace bootloader?
17:25	ShawnWork	so grub or syslinux could do the magic?
17:25	cw	you need a modified kernel to run inside Xen which the distro probably doesnt have and you need a userland which doesn't have lots of fucked up assumptions (FC has lots of weird crap that makes installing inside Xen a pain)
17:25	ShawnWork	since xen runs before a kernel is loaded
17:25	cw	no
17:25	cw	you dont need grub or a bootloader
17:26	cw	you have dom0 ... it can construct a kernel image and fs and boot that as another domain
17:26	cw	xen runs before the OSs yes, under them in fact
17:26	ShawnWork	right, but with xen can you install a fresh distribution
17:26	ShawnWork	ro you need an existing one to create a dom1
17:26	ShawnWork	or do you
17:27	ijuz	ShawnWork: are you about doing an test setup or a generel new way for installing clusters?
17:27	ShawnWork	testing setups
17:27	cw	ShawnWork: either, but again, most distros out of the box wont install under Xen
17:27	ShawnWork	so i can debug the cluster
17:27	cw	ShawnWork: so you need to fix that first
17:28	ShawnWork	something tells me this will not be worth doing for a few years
17:28	cw	ShawnWork: also, why install into a domain? why not just have a network image/fs you clone and use that everywhere?
17:28	ShawnWork	because the image you install i dynamic
17:28	cw	ShawnWork: seriously, this is gonna be easier to do under Xen than just about anything .... the problem is you are trying it make it work with ISO CDs and crap which assume "I really have a fucking PC in front of me"
17:28	cw	and Xen != a PC
17:29	cw	Xen doesn't emulate a BIOS like VMWARE, it doesn't need to or want to ... it's complexity that offers nothing really
17:29	ShawnWork	well you cant install the OS without CDs
17:29	ShawnWork	i know
17:29	---	<<-- plars [~plars@pixpat.austin.ibm.com] has quit (Quit: ran screaming into the woods)
17:29	cw	you can install an OS w/o CDs
17:30	cw	ive not done a CD install for years for any of my machines, x86, ia64, xscale or ppc
17:30	ShawnWork	this one needs CDs or ISOs
17:30	cw	no it doesnt
17:30	cw	you just think it does
17:30	cw	the CD is just a collection of files, you can pull it apart
17:30	ijuz	ShawnWork: sound like Scali... ;)
17:30	ShawnWork	how do I insert a 'roll' then?
17:30	cw	what's a roll?
17:30	ShawnWork	Scali?
17:30	ShawnWork	an ISO image with RPMs inside it
17:31	ijuz	ShawnWork: just kidding, a shitty cluster linux
17:31	cw	ShawnWork: you dont, that paradigm is for installing by switching CDs
17:31	cw	why would you wnat to do that when you can have all the files on a network somewhere and crap those as needed?
17:31	ShawnWork	well, with a central install you dont need to switch CDs
17:32	ShawnWork	it will send the RPMs over a network
17:32	cw	do you know what a CD is?
17:32	ShawnWork	an ISO 9660 image
17:32	cw	it's a hunk of plastic with bits on it, you can put those bits on a hard disk or whatever too you know and crap them any number of ways
17:32	ShawnWork	yes yes
17:32	cw	anyhow, rockslinux im 99% sure wont work out of the box with Xen
17:32	cw	you need to fix that first or you another distro
17:33	ShawnWork	I know, but Xen is confusing to me since its a different way of looking at machine virtualization
17:33	cw	stop thinking vmware
17:33	cw	vmware is a gross ugly hack that windows lusers like
17:33		* cw tries to insult as many people as possible
17:33	ijuz	vmware is binary patching?
17:34	cw	nfi, probably that and more
17:34	ShawnWork	yes, but its the only thing that works for testing :(
17:34	cw	actually, vmware is pretty clever for what it does ... but that said it's not a useful paradigm really unless you want to run windows under linux
17:34	ijuz	so use a stack of machines for testing
17:34	ijuz	or probably vmware esx/gsx
17:34	ShawnWork	UML also doesn't help me
17:35	ShawnWork	it cant do PXE booting either
17:35	cw	ShawnWork: as far as linux is concerned, it does care where the kernel comes from so long as it can access the root filesystem
17:35	ShawnWork	right
17:35	cw	ShawnWork: so with Xen you make a suitable rootfs (or method to get to one) and boot other domains with that
17:35	ijuz	ShawnWork: you just can't test the installation, but isn't that a minor part?
17:36	cw	ShawnWork: UML isn't useful either
17:36	ShawnWork	actually, testing Anaconda is a big part ;)
17:36	cw	ShawnWork: i really think im failing to explain this, because this sounds way more complicate than it should be
17:36	cw	bbiab
17:36	ShawnWork	its complicated :)
17:37	ijuz	ShawnWork: aren't 2 or 3 real boxes enough for testing the installation?
17:38	---	<<-- hollis [~hollis@pixpat.austin.ibm.com] has quit (Quit: leaving)
17:39	ShawnWork	I have 3 boxes, but @ home they run Debian/XP/LFS
17:39	ShawnWork	I dont wanna wipe them out ;)
17:39	ShawnWork	vmware is total crap in Linux crashing too often
17:39	ijuz	ebay.ca :)
17:40	ShawnWork	Xen isn't like CoLinux?
17:40	ijuz	ShawnWork: what is it using to boot with PXE?
17:40	ShawnWork	in some aspects?
17:40	ijuz	isn't CoLinux just a UML port for windows?
17:40	ShawnWork	oh
17:47	ShawnWork	oh
17:47	ShawnWork	etherboot?
17:48	ijuz	netboot? :)
17:48	ShawnWork	netboot?
17:49	ijuz	another netbooting thingy
17:49	ShawnWork	could that work?
17:49	ijuz	for xen?
17:49	ijuz	no
17:51	ShawnWork	interestnig
17:51	ShawnWork	someone wants to add etherboot support to xen
17:52	ijuz	hm... ok, great so you can do a kernel image with mknbin
17:52	ShawnWork	mknbin
17:52	ShawnWork	?
17:53	ijuz	did you ever use ethetboot?
17:53	cw	ShawnWork: xen is like xen
17:53	cw	ShawnWork: it's similar to vmware and uml in some ways, and different in others
17:53	ShawnWork	never used etherboot
17:53	cw	ShawnWork: xen is probably more like the VMM used on zSeries and POWER5 in some ways than either vmware or uml
17:53	ijuz	ShawnWork: you have to give the kernel a special blessing with mknbin or something like that
17:54	cw	ShawnWork: who wants to add etherboot support? i dont see that as useful or desirable at all
17:55	ShawnWork	I'd like to be able to boot a virtual machine with another one
17:55	ShawnWork	'boot' i mean install inside itself
17:56	cw	you can do that now
17:56	cw	that's exactly how xen works
17:57	ShawnWork	but from inside a domain it expects to see the outside as a PC though
17:58	cw	no it doesnt
17:58	cw	well, define 'it' i guess
17:58	ijuz	now irc would need a whiteboard
17:59	cw	there are a couple of options, i tried to find some that worked well but alas they all sorta suck
18:00	cw	i think there is considerable confusion as to what "linux" really needs and expects to see
18:03	cw	ShawnWork: why do you have to install from CD?
18:05	ijuz	the interface of my domU loks like this (as seen from dom0)
18:05	ijuz	vif2.0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr FE:FF:FF:FF:FF:FF
18:05	ijuz	UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1
18:05	ijuz	RX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
18:05	ijuz	TX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
18:05	ijuz	collisions:0 txqueuelen:0
18:05	ijuz	RX bytes:0 (0.0 b) TX bytes:0 (0.0 b)
18:06	ijuz	from inside the domU:
18:06	ijuz	XE1:~# ifconfig eth0 up 192.168.3.20
18:06	ijuz	XE1:~# ifconfig
18:06	ijuz	eth0 Link encap:Ethernet HWaddr AA:00:00:1E:9B:03
18:06	ijuz	inet addr:192.168.3.20 Bcast:192.168.3.255 Mask:255.255.255.0
18:06	ijuz	UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST MTU:1500 Metric:1
18:06	ijuz	RX packets:0 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:0
18:06	ijuz	TX packets:1 errors:0 dropped:0 overruns:0 carrier:0
18:06	ijuz	collisions:0 txqueuelen:1000
18:06	ijuz	RX bytes:0 (0.0 b) TX bytes:42 (42.0 b)
18:06	ijuz	but when i ping from domU anythign nothing comes back or reaches anything, where could be my error?
18:09	ShawnWork	cw: initially, i need to have the OS somewhere
18:09	cw	so install it w/o xen
18:09	ShawnWork	im goin home so im gonna play more, and try qemu w/ etherboot and see what works
18:09	cw	ijuz: vif2.0's MAC address looks wrong
18:11	ijuz	ShawnWork: just tar up some install at work
18:12	ShawnWork	if i could use a vmware disk image
18:13	ShawnWork	then i could do this with Xen (using etherboot to boot the node)
18:13	ijuz	# Optionally define mac and/or bridge for the network interfaces.
18:13	ijuz	# Random MACs are assigned if not given.
18:13	ijuz	#if = [ 'mac=aa:00:00:00:00:11, bridge=xen-br0' ]
18:13	ijuz	if = [ 'mac=aa:00:00:00:00:11, bridge=xen-br0' ]
18:14	ijuz	buuut python doesn't seem to be happy about the usage of "if"
18:15	cw	for some recent the python code started blowing up for me unde debian a while ago
18:15	cw	i need to recheck that
18:15	cw	ShawnWork: why would you do either of those things?
18:15	cw	ShawnWork: why not install it and just use tar?
18:16	ijuz	cw: so i can't set the MAX for vif*.0?
18:16	ShawnWork	just dump whats in the vmware disk into a tarball?
18:17	ijuz	yes, we install our cluster with a tar, needs <10 minutes per node
18:17	ijuz	i did this setup faster than this scali idiot installed his shit on another testcluster :)
18:18	cw	ShawnWork: what? are we still talking about rockslinux?
18:18	ShawnWork	ya
18:18	cw	install it somewhere yes, and then tar it up
18:18	cw	ideally before you do that, fix it to work under xen
18:18	cw	that might require several reboot/hack cycles
18:18	ShawnWork	it runs 2.4 kernel
18:19	cw	mostly init-script stuff
18:19	ShawnWork	RHEL 3
18:19	cw	well, you need to replace the kernel obviously
18:19	ShawnWork	sure, i can drop in a 2.6 kernel or a 2.4 with xen
18:19	cw	well, once that's working and all happy as a xen instance, ideally a domU instance tar it up
18:20	ShawnWork	when I go home in a few mins I'll try
18:20	cw	and use that as a base to work from
18:20	ShawnWork	im not sure how the actual installer will like that
18:20	cw	it wont
18:20	cw	so you install it on the metal and put xen under it
18:20	ShawnWork	i'll try this weekend
18:21	ShawnWork	time to go :)
19:42	---	---> sh0n [~sh0n@CPEdeadbeef0000-CM000039d4cc6a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #xen
19:59	---	<<-- sh0n [~sh0n@CPEdeadbeef0000-CM000039d4cc6a.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit (Remote host closed the connection)
20:59	---	<--- cw [cw@adsl-67-124-116-142.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has left #xen ()
21:00	---	---> cw [cw@adsl-67-124-116-142.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #xen
21:00	---	Channel: mode/#xen [+o cw] by ChanServ
21:03	---	<<-- visik7 [~ciao@host155-36.pool80182.interbusiness.it] has quit (Quit: did you grep /dev ?)
22:43	Beirdo	what's the status of xen for x86_64?
22:47		* mikegrb hides
22:47	-!-	Irssi: #xen: Total of 24 nicks 2 ops, 0 halfops, 0 voices, 22 normal
22:52	Beirdo	it isn't compiling for me (from schweeb's package)
22:52	schweeb	Beirdo: I'm guessin the problems are probably fixed in testing or unstable
23:24	---	<<-- deac [~deac@xdsl-213-196-206-164.netcologne.de] has quit (Ping timeout: 480 seconds)
23:59	---	<--- VS_ChanLog [~stats@ns.theshore.net] has left #xen (Rotating Logs)
23:59	---	---> VS_ChanLog [~stats@ns.theshore.net] has joined #xen
---	Log	closed Sat Mar 19 00:00:01 2005