| --- | Log | opened Tue Feb 19 00:00:11 2008 |
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| 10:24 | <jdike:#uml> | Hi guys |
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| 10:24 | <peterz:#uml> | hey Jeff |
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| 10:38 | <Magotari:#uml> | Hey, jdike. |
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| 10:47 | <Thijssss:#uml> | Could anyone tell me why Jeff Dike ever started on creating UML? I found the original LKML post and such but no indication what the drive was behind his work. |
| 10:49 | <Magotari:#uml> | Thijssss: You are looking for jdike. :) |
| 10:49 | <jdike:#uml> | how about general insanity? |
| 10:49 | <Magotari:#uml> | Pretty damn good reason. |
| 10:50 | <Thijssss:#uml> | May I quote that in my paper? :P |
| 10:50 | <jdike:#uml> | glad you like it |
| 10:50 | <jdike:#uml> | go ahead |
| 10:50 | <Magotari:#uml> | Well, this is the reason why I do most things, because I'm insane. So I can relate. :) |
| 10:51 | <Thijssss:#uml> | i'm writing a little piece on the history of UML and how we used it in a lab environment to learn about network setups and protocols... ; beautifull work Jeff :) works great |
| 10:51 | <jdike:#uml> | glad you like it |
| 10:51 | <Thijssss:#uml> | So there is no initial spark from perhaps your days at MIT? |
| 10:52 | <Magotari:#uml> | Heh, someone did their homework. |
| 10:52 | <jdike:#uml> | (someone's been reading up on me :-) |
| 10:52 | <Thijssss:#uml> | :) |
| 10:52 | <jdike:#uml> | maybe the general thought processes I inherited from MIT had something to do with it |
| 10:53 | <jdike:#uml> | but, more specifically, it just occurred to me that a port like this was possible, so I did it |
| 10:53 | <Thijssss:#uml> | and the whole lab here thanks you for that :) |
| 10:53 | <Magotari:#uml> | Damn good reason. |
| 10:53 | <Thijssss:#uml> | thanks for your time |
| 10:54 | <jdike:#uml> | np |
| 10:54 | <Magotari:#uml> | Yeah, uml is pretty damn nice, eh? |
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| 10:55 | <caker:#uml> | any suggestions for rate limiting outgoing traffic from a UML, other than the standards (tc traffic shaper / ebtable/iptable pps limiting)? |
| 10:55 | <Magotari:#uml> | Hey, Jeff, I'm sorry that I'm not really contributing. I miss my wife, am generally miserable and I just feel withdrawn from everything. |
| 10:56 | <jdike:#uml> | no problem |
| 10:56 | <jdike:#uml> | caker, why don't the standard methods work for you? |
| 10:57 | <caker:#uml> | we're still experimenting, but my initial tests with tc had weird results (hung traffic, limiting in the opposite direction (!), other weid stuff), which probably is a result of how incredibly flexible tc is and my general lack of expeirence with it |
| 11:05 | <jdike:#uml> | well, I'd figure out that tc can't do what you want before investing in UML-specific things |
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| 12:36 | <JochenA:#uml> | Has anyone succeeded in applying the uml patch to the most recent 2.4 series kernels? |
| 12:37 | <jdike:#uml> | 2.4 UML hasn't been maintained |
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| 12:40 | <JochenA:#uml> | hmm, guess I'll have to switch those over to 2.6 too, then. I liked 2.4 for small, low resource uml's. |
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| 14:42 | <madsara:#uml> | Hey, anyone here ever have success running UML on an XEN VPS? |
| 14:57 | <jdike:#uml> | I've heard that a guest domain can't run UML |
| 14:58 | <madsara:#uml> | jdike Yeah, that appears to be what I'm seeing. That sucks. |
| 14:58 | <jdike:#uml> | file a Xen bug report somewhere, I guess |
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| 17:36 | <jaym:#uml> | Hello |
| 17:37 | <Magotari:#uml> | Hello, jaym. |
| 17:37 | <jaym:#uml> | I am having a hard time trying to run UML on an old kernel (no mm). |
| 17:37 | <jaym:#uml> | I have no root priviliges, so I tried all kind of things in the client configuration |
| 17:37 | <Magotari:#uml> | Aha. What is the kernel exactly? Both guest and host? |
| 17:37 | <jaym:#uml> | but still a lot of crashes and when not, eventual hangs. |
| 17:38 | <jaym:#uml> | The guests are varied - mainly 2.6.24 variants from the uml site, kernel.org and debian. |
| 17:38 | <Magotari:#uml> | Right. And host? And what is the error message? |
| 17:38 | <jaym:#uml> | the host is a 2.6.9 from 'Scientific Linux', a redhat variant. |
| 17:38 | <Magotari:#uml> | Oh dear. |
| 17:38 | <jaym:#uml> | Indeed. |
| 17:39 | <jdike:#uml> | should still be OK |
| 17:39 | <jaym:#uml> | There isn't anything speicifc, except that at best after about an hour or two most apps in the client seem to hang. |
| 17:40 | <jdike:#uml> | the UML isn't hanging? |
| 17:40 | <Magotari:#uml> | Did you try to debug? |
| 17:40 | <jaym:#uml> | But when stressed, or slightly misconfigured, the guest simply oopses. |
| 17:40 | <jaym:#uml> | debug oopses immediately :-) |
| 17:40 | <jaym:#uml> | (I mean the kernel option, haven't tried gdb yet) |
| 17:40 | <Magotari:#uml> | Hmm... |
| 17:40 | <Magotari:#uml> | Wait a minute here. |
| 17:40 | <Magotari:#uml> | Did 2.6.9 had skas0 support? |
| 17:41 | <jaym:#uml> | How can I check? |
| 17:41 | <jaym:#uml> | I think the main tree UML entered in 2.6.9 |
| 17:41 | <Magotari:#uml> | Should be fine then. |
| 17:41 | <jdike:#uml> | 2.6.9 is the host, right? |
| 17:41 | <jaym:#uml> | but there is no /proc/mm and I don't see the UML options in the kernel config |
| 17:41 | <Magotari:#uml> | Yeah. From redhat's tree. |
| 17:41 | <jdike:#uml> | skas0 runs on anything - that's the point |
| 17:41 | <Magotari:#uml> | That is for skas3. |
| 17:41 | <jaym:#uml> | I think is is some heavily patched an modified 2.6.9 _prerelease_ |
| 17:42 | <jdike:#uml> | and you need no special options on the host |
| 17:42 | <Magotari:#uml> | You don't need /proc/mm for skas0 or tt mode. |
| 17:42 | <jaym:#uml> | I just found out there is no tt mode in recent kernels. |
| 17:42 | <jdike:#uml> | right |
| 17:42 | <jaym:#uml> | By googsling a log here, it isn't mentioned in the logs. |
| 17:42 | <jdike:#uml> | it's gone |
| 17:42 | <Magotari:#uml> | Ok, so not related to modes then, probably. |
| 17:43 | <jaym:#uml> | in the documentation, I mean. |
| 17:43 | <Magotari:#uml> | Did older kernels oops too? |
| 17:43 | <Magotari:#uml> | Guest kernels, I mean. |
| 17:43 | <jdike:#uml> | if you're seeing UML crashes, what's the stack |
| 17:43 | <jaym:#uml> | Do you know until when tt mode was supported? |
| 17:43 | <jdike:#uml> | ? |
| 17:43 | <Magotari:#uml> | jaym: I think till .23 |
| 17:43 | <jaym:#uml> | I'll generate a sample one, sec. |
| 17:44 | <jaym:#uml> | (I googled a 'tt is gone' comment from the 2.6.22 source, so I am _guessing_ that before that) |
| 17:45 | <jdike:#uml> | why do you want tt mode? |
| 17:45 | <jdike:#uml> | no one wants it |
| 17:45 | <Magotari:#uml> | It might be more stable. Or might not be. |
| 17:45 | <jaym:#uml> | Ah, skas keeps crashing, I thought I'd give it a try. |
| 17:46 | <jaym:#uml> | I was just surprised that mode=tt didn't do anything. |
| 17:46 | <jdike:#uml> | if you're seeing the same sort of behavior with varied guests, I'd say you're looking at |
| 17:46 | <jdike:#uml> | 1 - host weirdness |
| 17:46 | <jdike:#uml> | 2- some odd configuration mistake |
| 17:46 | <jdike:#uml> | 3- an old UML bug that no one else has seen |
| 17:47 | <Magotari:#uml> | The stack might help figure this out. |
| 17:47 | <jdike:#uml> | yup |
| 17:47 | <jaym:#uml> | 1 - host weirdness is a definite. I'm wondering if I can bypass it. |
| 17:47 | <Magotari:#uml> | What is the arch? i386? Or the 64bit one? |
| 17:48 | <jaym:#uml> | i386 |
| 17:48 | <Magotari:#uml> | That takes out that common problem out of the equation. |
| 17:50 | <jaym:#uml> | Please hold a sec, I'm trying to generate a stack. I haven't kept one. |
| 17:51 | <Magotari:#uml> | Sure. |
| 17:55 | <jdike:#uml> | jaym> debug oopses immediately :-) |
| 17:55 | <jdike:#uml> | can you get a stack from that? |
| 17:55 | <jaym:#uml> | I can't seem to get a boot time oops right now. |
| 17:56 | <jdike:#uml> | it should just print out a message and keep going |
| 17:56 | <jaym:#uml> | The main problem is that when there isn't one, the guest just bogs down after a while. |
| 17:56 | <jaym:#uml> | I'll try to describe what I mean - :-) |
| 17:56 | <Magotari:#uml> | Use gdb. |
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| 17:57 | <jdike:#uml> | figure out what's bogged down |
| 17:57 | <jaym:#uml> | to attach to the running threads and see which is stuck? |
| 17:57 | <Magotari:#uml> | Yup. |
| 17:57 | <jaym:#uml> | There are many of them. The ones with the most virtual memory? |
| 17:57 | <jdike:#uml> | vmstat/ps/top on the host to see if the host is being trashed |
| 17:57 | <jaym:#uml> | The host is completely calm. |
| 17:58 | <jdike:#uml> | then the same inside UML to see what is trashing it inside |
| 17:58 | <jaym:#uml> | By bogging down I mean that certain processes never return. |
| 17:58 | <jaym:#uml> | Can't strace what's the function that doesn't return because strace is one of them. |
| 17:58 | <jaym:#uml> | It's not thrashing. |
| 17:58 | <jdike:#uml> | like a command should finish in some reasonable time and it hangs? |
| 17:59 | <jaym:#uml> | Just suddenly certain programs get stuck and un-killable. |
| 17:59 | <Magotari:#uml> | Great. gdb strace then. See where it gets stuck. |
| 17:59 | <jaym:#uml> | No. strace is one of them. |
| 17:59 | <Magotari:#uml> | jaym: Even to kill -9? |
| 17:59 | <jdike:#uml> | ps shows their state as 'D'? |
| 17:59 | <jaym:#uml> | No kill -9. Stuck in the kernel. like df on a dead nfs mount ; |
| 17:59 | <jaym:#uml> | If you know the phenomenon. |
| 18:00 | <Magotari:#uml> | So the idea is to attach gdb to something stuck. |
| 18:00 | <jaym:#uml> | ps/strace/top/etc. all hang when the guest enters this state. |
| 18:00 | <jaym:#uml> | No option to shutdown either, just kill from the host. |
| 18:00 | <jdike:#uml> | sysrq t would be good |
| 18:00 | <jaym:#uml> | Ok. How can I tell from the host which thread is worth attaching to? |
| 18:01 | <jaym:#uml> | jdike: What's sysrq t ? |
| 18:01 | <jdike:#uml> | sounds like something holding a semaphore and everything else hitting it |
| 18:01 | <Magotari:#uml> | jaym: Sysrq is a special way to send commands to the kernel. |
| 18:01 | <jdike:#uml> | from the host, you can do 'uml_mconsole <umid> sysrq t' |
| 18:01 | <Magotari:#uml> | jaym: Use uml_mconsole to... |
| 18:01 | <Magotari:#uml> | Yes. Exactly. |
| 18:01 | <jdike:#uml> | and that will dump the kernel stack of every process |
| 18:02 | <jaym:#uml> | Ok. I'll do that. Thanks. |
| 18:02 | <jdike:#uml> | I bet it's a semaphore |
| 18:02 | <jaym:#uml> | It will probably take an hour or two for that to happen, and I'll get back to you. |
| 18:02 | <jdike:#uml> | at least as the initial diagnosis |
| 18:02 | <jaym:#uml> | I think I saw an oops in nano sleep when I tried to get it out of this state once. |
| 18:02 | <jaym:#uml> | Anyway, we'll know more soon. |
| 18:03 | <jdike:#uml> | the interesting question is who's holding the semaphore and what it thinks it's doing |
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| 18:12 | <Magotari:#uml> | jdike: Ever done lisp? Just curious. |
| 18:12 | <jdike:#uml> | yup |
| 18:12 | <jdike:#uml> | it's a shame it's not more popular |
| 18:12 | <Magotari:#uml> | You mean t, right? :) |
| 18:12 | <jdike:#uml> | heh |
| 18:13 | <Magotari:#uml> | Yeah, I agree. I love using it, even though I am new. Well, a week old. |
| 18:13 | <jdike:#uml> | which flavor |
| 18:13 | <jdike:#uml> | ? |
| 18:13 | <Magotari:#uml> | Common lisp. I hate lots about it, but scheme seems even stranger, so... |
| 18:13 | <Magotari:#uml> | I will end up learning both. |
| 18:14 | <jdike:#uml> | common lisp is industrial lisp |
| 18:14 | <jdike:#uml> | scheme is minimal and elegant |
| 18:14 | <Magotari:#uml> | So I heard, yeah. |
| 18:14 | <Magotari:#uml> | Looked more pretty, that is for sure. I just worried about having to define common macros all the time myself. |
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| 18:37 | <jaym:#uml> | Ok, replicated. sysrq t says all kernel and client threads are in _switch_to+0x57/0xfa . |
| 18:37 | <jdike:#uml> | of course |
| 18:37 | <jdike:#uml> | that's not interesting |
| 18:37 | <jaym:#uml> | :-) |
| 18:37 | <jdike:#uml> | what's interesting is what's above the scheduler |
| 18:37 | <jaym:#uml> | The threads, one by one? |
| 18:38 | <jdike:#uml> | can you just dump the whole thing on pastebin? |
| 18:38 | <jaym:#uml> | Ok. What's the command? |
| 18:39 | <jaym:#uml> | (I'm not too familiar with irc) |
| 18:39 | <jdike:#uml> | it's not IRC |
| 18:39 | <jaym:#uml> | Ah, that pastebin! |
| 18:39 | <jdike:#uml> | it's pastebin.com |
| 18:40 | <jaym:#uml> | Sure, sec. |
| 18:42 | <jaym:#uml> | Ok, it's there. |
| 18:42 | <jdike:#uml> | and the URL would be what? |
| 18:43 | <jaym:#uml> | http://pastebin.com/m54485a80 |
| 18:46 | <jdike:#uml> | what there is hung? |
| 18:47 | <jdike:#uml> | that looks like a normal, idle system |
| 18:47 | <jaym:#uml> | The terminal is no longer responsive, |
| 18:47 | <jaym:#uml> | (local xterm launched as a tty), |
| 18:48 | <jaym:#uml> | ssh session is active but top for example hangs. |
| 18:49 | <jaym:#uml> | (I can generate a new sysrq t with different things hung, if that will help) |
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| 18:49 | <jaym:#uml> | I can create new shells, but su hangs |
| 18:50 | <jaym:#uml> | ls and strace won't return either. |
| 18:50 | <jdike:#uml> | what is non-responsive right now? |
| 18:50 | <jaym:#uml> | I'm trying out commands and reporting what won't return. |
| 18:50 | <jaym:#uml> | Since I can generate more shells (via screen) I can try out different things. |
| 18:51 | <jdike:#uml> | get a sysrq with something that definitely shouldn't be sleeping |
| 18:51 | <jaym:#uml> | Ok, I guess ls shouldn't |
| 18:52 | <jdike:#uml> | OK, that's a good one |
| 18:53 | <jdike:#uml> | does ps run? |
| 18:54 | <jaym:#uml> | It's on http://pastebin.com/m1e4bfd29 but I don't see ls there. |
| 18:54 | <jaym:#uml> | No, ps won't start either. |
| 18:55 | <jdike:#uml> | # |
| 18:55 | <jdike:#uml> | 1c0dfc18: [<0819a76f>] __wait_on_bit_lock+0x2f/0x58 |
| 18:55 | <jdike:#uml> | # |
| 18:55 | <jdike:#uml> | 1c0dfc34: [<080948b8>] __lock_page+0x6a/0x72 |
| 18:55 | <jdike:#uml> | # |
| 18:55 | <jdike:#uml> | 1c0dfc9c: [<08094de4>] do_generic_mapping_read+0x1bc/0x342 |
| 18:55 | <jdike:#uml> | # |
| 18:55 | <jdike:#uml> | that last bash is hung up on disk I/O |
| 18:55 | <jdike:#uml> | this was inside exec, so ls never got off the ground |
| 18:56 | <jaym:#uml> | I have no mounts besides the root and swap files given on the command line. |
| 18:57 | <jaym:#uml> | Could there be a problem with the sparse ext2 file? It passes fsck both on the host and on the guest sides. |
| 18:57 | <jdike:#uml> | on the host, can you start a strace on the main UML pid |
| 18:57 | <jdike:#uml> | and then make something else hang? |
| 18:57 | <jdike:#uml> | run commands that you haven't tried yet |
| 18:58 | <jaym:#uml> | I have ps hung now as well. |
| 19:04 | <jaym:#uml> | strace of sudo hanging posted to http://pastebin.com/d11d25a2 |
| 19:05 | <jaym:#uml> | But it was a second launch of sudo. I'll generate a fresh one. |
| 19:08 | <jaym:#uml> | A fresh one here - http://pastebin.com/d1e2d70a9 |
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| 19:11 | <jdike:#uml> | gotta go for a while |
| 19:11 | <jaym:#uml> | Ok. |
| 19:12 | <jaym:#uml> | This is perhaps interesting, when you return - |
| 19:12 | <jaym:#uml> | gettimeofday({1203464369, 702637}, NULL) = 0 |
| 19:12 | <jaym:#uml> | read(16, 0x37f1e59c, 3002) = -1 EAGAIN (Resource temporarily unavailable) |
| 19:13 | <jaym:#uml> | I will be off for today soon, so here is a hypothesis to leave you with - |
| 19:14 | <jaym:#uml> | The host's hardware clock is half an hour behind the client clock, which is synced by ntp, which confuses the filesystem code. |
| 19:31 | <jdike:#uml> | actually, one thing you can try |
| 19:31 | <jaym:#uml> | Aha, |
| 19:31 | <jdike:#uml> | if it says it's using 2.6 AIO on the host when it boots |
| 19:31 | <jdike:#uml> | add "aio=24" to the command line and see if that helps |
| 19:32 | <jdike:#uml> | actually, it's "aio=2.4" |
| 19:32 | <jdike:#uml> | gone again... |
| 19:32 | <jaym:#uml> | Ok, I'll try that. I'm now running with ntp off, to see if it changes anything. I'll try aio=2.4 when it won't. |
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| 23:59 | -!- | VS_ChanLog [~stats@ns.theshore.net] has left #uml [Rotating Logs] |
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| --- | Log | closed Wed Feb 20 00:00:49 2008 |
![[FSF Associate Member]](/assets/fsf.png){kind=small}
