TheGrebs.com:IRC Logs:#uml:2005:05:02

---	Log	opened Mon May 02 00:00:12 2005
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06:41	thorin	Good day. Is there any way to boot uml with El-Torito iso image as ubd0?
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09:46	jdike	hi guys
09:47	AquaJo	hi jeff
09:49	---	Channel: services.oftc.net changed the topic of #uml to: Welcome to #UML - current releases: 2.4.27-um1 \| 2.4.24-um1 (rock solid) \| 2.6.11-bs1 \| http://user-mode-linux.sf.net (Mainpage) \| http://www.usermodelinux.org (communitypage) \| http://www.user-mode-linux.org/~blaisorblade/ (SKAS/guest -bb and -bs patches) \| http://uml.harlowhill.com/ (Wiki page for documentation)
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11:45	Vip-	Hi everyone
11:45	Vip-	Anyone around to give some help?
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12:28	jdike	Well
12:28	jdike	AIO seems to work
12:30	timster	nice
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12:52	mutex	are there any known issues with running a 2.4 UML on a 2.6 kernel ?
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13:19	Vip-	I am running 2.6.11 x86_64 that I compiled with /proc/mm . I have compiled 2.6.4 using "make linux ARCH=um CC=gcc33"
13:20	Vip-	Whenever I try to boot a pre-made kernel, I get an error that the filesystem has no partitions (which makes sense) but then it hangs.
13:20	Vip-	Any ideas?
13:23	jdike	Vip-: x86_64 in mainline isn't healthy
13:23	jdike	Vip-: I have it running fine, but it requires some stuff not in mainline
13:24	Vip-	jdike: ahhh, I see ...are you the jdike from the patch lists everywhere? :-)
13:24	jdike	Vip-: yup
13:24	Vip-	jdike: well, thanks...I think ;-)
13:25	Vip-	so, what are my options?
13:25	jdike	Vip-: Keep an eye on http://user-mode-linux.sf.net/patches.html
13:26	jdike	Vip-: I'll merge my x86_64 back into my devel tree, push the patches there, and add some commentary about which ones you need for a working x86_64
13:27	Vip-	cool...any eta on that?
13:30	jdike	Vip-: next day or two
13:31	Vip-	great! great stuff you are doing...saw a demo of it. Thanks.
13:32	Vip-	how much time out of the day does this project take?!?
13:33	jdike	Vip-: Intel pays me to do it, so all of it, or none, depending how you look at it
13:33	Vip-	hah :-)
13:34	Vip-	all I want is to run Windows under Linux. That's it. How hard can it be? :-) :-)
13:34		* timster getting paid to work on a world renown project... cant be that bad of a gig
13:34	Vip-	We have one app that requires Internet Exploder w/msjava
13:35	Vip-	POS app
13:35	Vip-	So, I figure, x86_64 -> uml i386 -> qemu/kqemu -> Windows
13:35	Vip-	Should prove interesting :-)
13:36		* Vip- gets paid to...hrmmm...what do I do anyways?
13:37	Vip-	timster: what project?
13:37	timster	vip: uml
13:37	Vip-	ah, you get paid to work on it too, eh? heh
13:38	timster	no, lol
13:38		* timster was referring to the man, jdike
13:38	Vip-	oh, misread what you typed :-)
13:38	timster	:}
13:38	Vip-	yup, I get it now :-)
13:38	jdike	Vip-: VMWare is probably your best bet
13:38	Vip-	slow...ever since I got hit by that 2x4
13:38	timster	:}
13:39	Vip-	jdike: VMWare. I don't really need to go that far, in fact, the basic qemu gets me what I want, but it's slow
13:39	jdike	Vip-: your current plan has way too many levels of virtualization
13:39	Vip-	takes a AMD64 3000+ and runs Windows XP at PII 300 speeds.
13:39	Vip-	jdike: I know. I like to play around...so, it should be fun
13:40	jdike	Vip-: well, two, but it could be one, if VMWare runs on x86_64
13:40	Vip-	jdike: and if it doesn't work. Oh well, keep rebooting :-)
13:40	jdike	Vip-: OK, fun is a fine reason
13:43	Vip-	well, thanks again for the info. I'll keep watching that webpage! Later.
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14:40	mutex	how can I linke the udb fs's to something automated scripts are programmed for, like /dev/hda ?
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15:01	Squink	Anyone know much about the mem= flag?
15:01	Newsome	just pass it the amount of memory you want to assign to the UML: mem=64M
15:04	Squink	Ok, see, I looking at top at the moment, and it's saying I've got 3 instances of UML running each using 512M
15:04	Squink	PID USER PR NI VIRT RES SHR S %CPU %MEM TIME+ COMMAND
15:04	Squink	25945 root 15 0 512m 103m 103m S 1.3 20.7 0:34.64 linux-2.6.10
15:04	Squink	25953 root 16 0 512m 103m 103m S 0.0 20.7 0:00.31 linux-2.6.10
15:04	Squink	25954 root 16 0 512m 103m 103m S 0.0 20.7 0:00.00 linux-2.6.10
15:05	Squink	which is great and all, except there's only 512mb on the host
15:05	Squink	so im wondering where this magical extra gig of ram is coming from
15:06	mutex	heh, apparently i was doing all the fakehd and fake_ide stuff correct... just wasn't mapping it to major number 3 ;-)
15:07	Newsome	Squink: It's not using all 512M for each UML. Look at the RES and SHR columns.
15:08	Newsome	Squink: if you use up the maximum amount of memory in each of the UMLs, the OOM killer will probably strike
15:09	Squink	right, so if my Host mem is 512, i should probably set mem= to, what, 256? 384?
15:10	Newsome	for 3 UMLs?
15:10	Squink	Well there's only one uml!
15:10	Squink	which is another thing that makes no sense
15:10	Newsome	oh, so those aren't 3 UMLs, but 3 threads of the UML.
15:10	Squink	It's only (supposed to be) running 1 instance of uml
15:10	Squink	oh ok
15:10	Squink	still seems like a lot
15:11	Newsome	Linux doesn't split up the memory across the processes in the process group. They all report the total in use.
15:12	Squink	the main reason i ended up looking at all this in the first place is because on one server a site is taking 3 seconds to load and on the UML it's taking on average 3 or 4 times that
15:12	Squink	so I'm trying to figure out what's causing such an insane slowdown
15:12	Newsome	probably the TMP settings
15:13	Squink	dotdotdot
15:13	Newsome	is /tmp a tmpfs, or just a regular part of the filesystem?
15:13	Squink	none on /dev/shm type tmpfs (rw)
15:13	Squink	tmpfs on /tmp type tmpfs (rw,nosuid)
15:13	Squink	none on /proc/sys/fs/binfmt_misc type binfmt_misc (rw)
15:13	Squink	/tmp on /var/tmp type none (rw,nosuid,bind)
15:14	Squink	(in other words, im not sure)
15:14	Newsome	so, the way that UML does memory, it creates a file in /tmp, then mmaps it, and uses that for its memory
15:14	Squink	right
15:14	Newsome	so, what you've got is disk-based memory
15:15	Newsome	so, for better performance, it's a good idea to mount some directory as a tmpfs, and point the memory at that
15:15	Squink	hmm so it'll be fixed if we can get it to use ram instead of disk-based
15:16	Newsome	for example, here is the memory for one of my UML hosts (from fstab): none /UML/VM tmpfs defaults,size=768M 0 0
15:17	Newsome	then, when starting the UML, I have a line in the bash script like this: export TMPDIR=/UML/VM
15:17	Squink	ah, so i could change tmpfs /tmp tmpfs defaults,size=2048M 0 0
15:17	Squink	to none /tmp tmpfs defaults,size=2048M 0 0
15:18	Newsome	ihmm, I thought it wasn't tmpfs...going back and re-reading what you posted
15:18	Squink	well here's what fstab says;
15:19	Squink	LABEL=/ / ext3 defaults,usrquota 1 1
15:19	Squink	LABEL=/boot /boot ext3 defaults 1 2
15:19	Squink	none /dev/pts devpts gid=5,mode=620 0 0
15:19	Squink	none /dev/shm tmpfs defaults 0 0
15:19	Squink	none /proc proc defaults 0 0
15:19	Squink	none /sys sysfs defaults 0 0
15:19	Squink	/dev/hda2 swap swap defaults 0 0
15:19	Squink	/dev/fd0 /mnt/floppy auto noauto,owner,kudzu 0 0
15:19	Squink	tmpfs /tmp tmpfs defaults,size=2048M 0 0
15:19	Squink	none /UML/VM tmpfs defaults,size=768M 0 0
15:19	Squink	the last line hasn't been saved in yet tho.
15:19	Newsome	you can use /tmp just fine. I just wanted the memory somewhere other than /tmp
15:19	Squink	there's also an /etc/mtab file
15:20	Squink	which i've not seen before now
15:20	Newsome	looks like your /tmp is /tmpfs already
15:20	Squink	right
15:20	Newsome	how about df -h /tmp
15:20	Squink	Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on
15:20	Squink	tmpfs 2.0G 111M 1.9G 6% /tmp
15:21	Newsome	hmm, okay. so it looks like you've got plenty free
15:22		* Newsome grumbles
15:23		* Squink stares blankly
15:23	Squink	hmu
15:23	Squink	*hum
15:24	Squink	so what else could possible cause that sort of slowdown?
15:24	Squink	because it's insane.
15:24	Squink	and it only seems to be doing it in UML =/
15:24	Newsome	check out 'vmstat' inside the uml
15:25	Squink	procs memory swap io system cpu
15:25	Squink	r b swpd free buff cache si so bi bo in cs us sy wa id
15:25	Squink	0 0 0 392208 9524 43316 0 0 3684 1507 16811 30748 100 0 0 0
15:26	Newsome	hmm, no swapping, but pretty high context switching and user, with no idle...
15:27	Newsome	is this a SKAS UML?
15:27	Squink	yep
15:27	Squink	well
15:27	Squink	should be. boots up with SKAS enabled
15:27	Squink	Checking for the skas3 patch in the host...found
15:27	Squink	Checking for /proc/mm...found
15:27	Squink	Checking PROT_EXEC mmap in /tmp...OK
15:27	Squink	Kernel virtual memory size shrunk to 527433728 bytes
15:27	Squink	..etc..
15:27	Newsome	grep mode /proc/cpuinfo
15:28	Squink	model name : UML
15:28	Squink	mode : skas
15:28	Newsome	yep, looks good
15:29		* Squink scratches head
15:29	Newsome	system time and cs still looks pretty high to me.
15:29	Newsome	are lots of processes running?
15:30	Squink	16:30:08 up 33 min, 1 user, load average: 1.00, 1.02, 0.91
15:30	Squink	64 processes: 62 sleeping, 2 running, 0 zombie, 0 stopped
15:30	Squink	CPU states: cpu user nice system irq softirq iowait idle
15:30	Squink	total 0.0% 0.0% 0.0% 100.0% 0.0% 0.0% 0.0%
15:30	Squink	Mem: 513948k av, 122124k used, 391824k free, 0k shrd, 9776k buff
15:30	Squink	80788k active, 27872k inactive
15:30	Squink	Swap: 0k av, 0k used, 0k free 43384k cached
15:31		* Newsome smacks the "UML load average always > 1.0" bug with a large piece of wood
15:31	Squink	heh
15:33	Newsome	running out of thoughts here, sorry.
15:33	Squink	hum
15:34	Squink	ok, i gotta go get groceries anyway. Maybe someone will un-idle whilst I'm gone and be like, 'oh my god! I know what's causing that!' ;)
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16:19	Squink	I guess nobody's had any amazing ideas then :)
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16:44	Squink	oh here's a thought
16:44	Squink	apache2 requires /dev/random
16:44	Squink	but if that's not tmpfs, surely that's gonna run slow as hell..
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16:50	Newsome	/dev/random is in-kernel
16:50	Newsome	you can check to see if there's entropy, though.
16:51	Newsome	cat /proc/sys/kernel/random/entropy_avail
16:53	Newsome	If what you're doing uses SSL, it might be running out of entropy
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17:48	Squink	you know what, I'm just gonna replace apache2 with apache 1.3
17:49	Squink	unless..
17:49		* Squink ponders
17:49	Squink	yeah
17:51	BurtyB	so was you out of entropy Squink ?
17:51	jdike	Squink: BTW, if randomness is the problem, there is a random driver for UML which sucks from the host's /dev/random
17:52	Squink	entropy is only at 160
17:52	Squink	but thinking about it now, that still shouldn't effect the speed at which apache2 renders pages
17:52	Squink	renders/servers
17:52	Squink	*serves
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17:53		* Squink clones UML .disk
17:54	Squink	I'm gonna install 1.3 on one of these and see if it makes a difference. Who woulda thought I'd end up using UML for dev testing purposes ...
17:54	BurtyB	Squink prob not, with apache2 i had problems on startup but not when it was running
17:55	Squink	hm
17:55	Squink	see the problem i have is a difference of about (normal * 3) seconds when serving pages
17:56	Squink	and the only difference between this server and the other one is that this one is running in UML with apache2, whereas the other one is apache1.3 on the host
17:56	Squink	But I figure that can't be a normal slowdown, otherwise nobody would use UML for hosting
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---	Log	closed Tue May 03 00:00:43 2005