| --- | Log | opened Mon Jul 21 00:00:13 2008 |
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| 03:49 | <fmauNeko> | hello |
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| 04:10 | <Celestar> | hey |
| 04:10 | <Lachie> | anyone here proficient at bash scripting? |
| 04:10 | <blathijs> | a bit |
| 04:10 | <Celestar> | a bit |
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| 04:12 | <Lachie> | I'm after a script for Linux that will change the color depth to 16bit, restart x server then run a program. then change dept back to 24 and restart x when it's done |
| 04:12 | <blathijs> | :-) |
| 04:12 | <Lachie> | or |
| 04:12 | <Lachie> | simply two scripts, one that will change it to 16 and restart X, the other changes to 24 and restarts X |
| 04:12 | * | Celestar goes replacing 303 Trains by Maglevs |
| 04:13 | <blathijs> | Lachie: The easy way would be to have two config files that you manually create instead of changing the config file automatically |
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| 04:14 | <Lachie> | like an xorg.conf1 and xorg.conf2 and mv them to xorg.conf on demand? |
| 04:14 | <Lachie> | not a bad approach |
| 04:14 | <Celestar> | hm .. |
| 04:15 | <blathijs> | Lachie: You can probably pass -ConfigFile or whatever option to X |
| 04:15 | <Celestar> | can't you switch color depth on-the-fly meanwhile? I know it works with resolution ... |
| 04:15 | <Lachie> | Celestar: nope |
| 04:15 | <Celestar> | blathijs: that does exist, even for the user |
| 04:15 | <Lachie> | atleast not with my hardware |
| 04:15 | <blathijs> | Yeah, I was just looking at xrandr for that |
| 04:15 | <blathijs> | Lachie: Tried xrandr? |
| 04:15 | <Lachie> | what's that? |
| 04:16 | * | Lachie googles |
| 04:16 | <Lachie> | hmm |
| 04:16 | <blathijs> | Thoug xrandr doesn't seem to list any options for changing bpp |
| 04:16 | <Lachie> | perhaps |
| 04:16 | <Lachie> | bbl |
| 04:17 | <blathijs> | I see some references to it on google, but that's only error messages from wine that it is not supported |
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| 04:19 | <Celestar> | BAH |
| 04:19 | <Celestar> | why does auto-copy-order not work from rail to maglev? |
| 04:22 | <Celestar> | wth? |
| 04:22 | <Celestar> | I copy a savegame from one box to another, and the total money redouce from 15 billion to 77 million?! |
| 04:23 | <Noldo> | same currency? |
| 04:24 | <Celestar> | yeah |
| 04:24 | <Celestar> | sorry correction: it starts with $0 on the other box |
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| 04:32 | <Celestar> | http://www.fvfischer.de/money.png <= weird |
| 04:33 | <Gekz_> | you got pwned |
| 04:33 | <Celestar> | ? |
| 04:34 | <Gekz_> | your game, it ruined your fun |
| 04:34 | <Gekz_> | games arnet meant to ruin fun |
| 04:34 | <Gekz_> | give it the smacks |
| 04:35 | <Celestar> | do you have anything productive to say? :P |
| 04:37 | <Gekz_> | never |
| 04:38 | <Celestar> | ok :P |
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| 04:47 | <@peter1138> | Hmm, 2015... inflation adjusted already? |
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| 05:52 | <Celestar> | peter1138: hm ... I recomiled and it works now O_o |
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| 06:29 | <Celestar> | hm .. |
| 06:30 | <Celestar> | the TR09's capacity in DBSetXL is grossly exaggerated |
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| 06:40 | <@peter1138> | Is that a luxury one? |
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| 06:51 | <Celestar> | no. the maglev |
| 06:51 | <Celestar> | 120 pax per carriage |
| 06:52 | <Celestar> | sounds more like cattle class to me :P |
| 06:54 | <@peter1138> | Ah... |
| 06:54 | <@peter1138> | Maybe they're supposed to be very long carriages ;) |
| 06:55 | <Celestar> | possibly |
| 06:57 | <Rubidium_> | tardis class? |
| 06:59 | <Noldo> | :) |
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| 07:04 | <Celestar> | tarwhat? |
| 07:05 | <Rubidium_> | Celestar: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tardis |
| 07:07 | <Celestar> | oh :P |
| 07:07 | <Celestar> | lol |
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| 07:13 | <ln> | http://img.thedailywtf.com/images/200807/errord/error.aspx.png |
| 07:13 | <planetmaker> | he. I mixed up Tardis with Tharsis :P |
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| 07:14 | -!- | mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ |
| 07:16 | <Digitalfox> | Anything planned for raising the speed limit of road vehicles and ships ( the famous 127KM/h ) in open, so NewGRF can add for example a road vehicle that will reach 200KM/h? |
| 07:16 | <planetmaker> | http://www.google.com/mars/#lat=-42.553080&lon=-16.171875&zoom=1&q=tharsis <- that one :P |
| 07:17 | <Celestar> | Digitalfox: where do road vehicles go > 127km/h (apart from PVs) |
| 07:20 | <Digitalfox> | Celestar while playing open in 2030.. I expect from 20 years from now, that road vehicles will have a much better AI and you will travel faster and safer ( that means you won't touch the drive wheel, the computer does everything ;) ) |
| 07:20 | <ln> | Digitalfox: it's more likely that in 20 years the speed limits are lower than now. |
| 07:20 | <Celestar> | Digitalfox: I hope so, but I don'T see that (yet) happening (= |
| 07:21 | <Digitalfox> | So >127KM/h seems slow :( |
| 07:21 | <Celestar> | ln: I fear that you're right |
| 07:22 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | even if technically possible, there are still laws against trucks going >80km/h |
| 07:22 | <Celestar> | Eddi|zuHause2: that's germany. |
| 07:22 | <Celestar> | Eddi|zuHause2: they go faster in other countries |
| 07:22 | <Mark> | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_Superbus |
| 07:22 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | yes, but not unlimited ;) |
| 07:23 | <Celestar> | oh damn people, use planes :P |
| 07:23 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | i know no other countries where cars are allowed to go >130km/h at all |
| 07:23 | <Digitalfox> | This of topic, but one of things I hate more on speed lower defenders is that they think all cars are equal.. When I drive my Renault R5 120 KM/h seems too much fast for that car.. But when I driver my Audi A3 140 KM/h seems a nice speed for driving in Autoway |
| 07:23 | <Noldo> | I thing 120km/h is the highest speed limit here |
| 07:24 | <Noldo> | *think |
| 07:24 | <Celestar> | When I driver our 530d at 140km/h, it feels like sleeping |
| 07:24 | <Celestar> | revs at around 1900 :P |
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| 07:25 | <ln> | Digitalfox: Still, when you hit an object with your Audi A3, your body has the same limit of deceleration it can tolerate without fatal damage to internal organs. |
| 07:25 | <Celestar> | ln: well, you're more likely to survive a crash in an A3 at N km/h than in a R5 and N/2 km/h |
| 07:25 | <Digitalfox> | Celestar that's what i felt and feel every time I drive on autoway, but it's the law :( |
| 07:26 | <Celestar> | there must be a reason why the number of casualties p.a. on German roads is constantly decreasing |
| 07:27 | <Celestar> | and it's neither better drivers nor less accidents |
| 07:27 | <Celestar> | nor is it better roads |
| 07:27 | <Digitalfox> | better cars? |
| 07:27 | <Celestar> | Digitalfox: yes. |
| 07:27 | <Celestar> | this day and age, you can often walk away from an 70km/h head-on crash |
| 07:27 | <Noldo> | bad luck for the insurance companies |
| 07:27 | <Digitalfox> | I also think the same :) |
| 07:27 | <Celestar> | Noldo: not really, the number of accidents is constantly increasing |
| 07:28 | <Noldo> | injured people cost more that dead ones |
| 07:28 | <Celestar> | Noldo: depends on the injury P |
| 07:28 | <Frostregen> | http://www.destatis.de/jetspeed/portal/cms/Sites/destatis//Internet/DE/Grafiken/Verkehr/Diagramme/Strassenverkehrstote,property=image.gif |
| 07:28 | <Noldo> | also the cars are more expensive and more often not repairable |
| 07:29 | <Celestar> | Frostregen: plus consider the traffic density of 1970 with that of 2007... |
| 07:29 | <ln> | max(Sweden) = 110, max(Bjarniland) = 130, max(Finland) = 120 |
| 07:30 | <Celestar> | max(Celestarland) = c |
| 07:30 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | what max speed does a Regio Citadis have? |
| 07:30 | <Noldo> | it was bit odd to drive in sweden because the limits are 110,90,70 etc. while 120,100,80 here |
| 07:30 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | (Tram/Railway hybrid) |
| 07:31 | <Frostregen> | @Celestar: Maybe this is a proove for the contrary. Look at the average speed on your way back home through rush-hour traffic ;) |
| 07:31 | <Frostregen> | today you cannot even reach deadly speeds ;) |
| 07:31 | <ln> | Noldo: and a 110 in sweden can be either a motorway or a narrow road. |
| 07:31 | <Digitalfox> | If you drive a good car that has nice crash resistance and technology ( yes not everybody can buy one, it's the world we have ;) ) you have a greater % of survival in car crash even if at 200KM/h.. |
| 07:32 | <Celestar> | Frostregen: well, I'm trying to drive ahead of the rush-hour, but ok. I'm usually not exceeding 110km/h on the highways during my daily commute |
| 07:32 | <Noldo> | and that is the most excelent reason to go the same % faster |
| 07:32 | <Celestar> | on long range trips .. that's different |
| 07:32 | <Celestar> | 150-160km/h cruise speed |
| 07:33 | <ln> | The problem is that as the safety of cars gets better, people also drive more unsafely because they have the feeling they are on a safe vehicle. |
| 07:33 | <Digitalfox> | I have seen a A3 from a friend ( before buying mine I was thinking on buying his ) cut in half by a tree at 190KM/s and guess what he survived with scratches =0 Sure yhe car had no fixing possible, and he was alone in the car, but he survived at 190KM/s |
| 07:33 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | Frostregen: i have a question about this statistics... how did they handle the "significant increase of area" around 1990? |
| 07:34 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | (assuming this is based on germany) |
| 07:34 | <Frostregen> | no further comment on their site |
| 07:34 | <Frostregen> | (statistisches bundesamt) |
| 07:34 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | (and that before 1990 they mean west germany) |
| 07:35 | <Frostregen> | maybe this explains the small hill around 1990 |
| 07:35 | <Celestar> | Eddi|zuHause2: you can see a slight increase of casulaties in 1990 |
| 07:35 | <Celestar> | because of the noticable increase in population |
| 07:35 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | i noticed that... |
| 07:36 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | but i kinda thought the increase should be more significant |
| 07:36 | <Celestar> | still 13.6 bodies per day :( |
| 07:36 | <Celestar> | Eddi|zuHause2: most people didn't have a car there. |
| 07:36 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | but the number of cars increased significantly over the next few years |
| 07:37 | <Celestar> | in 2004, they had 43000 fatalities in the USA |
| 07:37 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | that's almost 10 times the fatalities compared to 5 times of the population |
| 07:37 | <Celestar> | yes |
| 07:37 | <Celestar> | and a very very low speed limit |
| 07:38 | <Celestar> | btw: only 5% of the fatalities in germany invovle speeds > 120km/h |
| 07:38 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | well... seatbelts |
| 07:39 | <Celestar> | and sorry to say that: piss poor driving skills |
| 07:39 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | well, they don't pay 2000€ for a drivers license |
| 07:40 | <Frostregen> | http://www.destatis.de/jetspeed/portal/cms/Sites/destatis/Internet/DE/Content/Statistiken/Verkehr/Verkehrsunfaelle/Tabellen/Content50/UrsachenPersonenschaden,templateId=renderPrint.psml |
| 07:40 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | well, 2000€ is probably exaggerated |
| 07:40 | <Celestar> | Eddi|zuHause2: these days? 2000 EUR is cheap |
| 07:41 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | i think i payed something around 1500 DM back in 2000 |
| 07:41 | <Celestar> | yeah, similar here |
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| 07:41 | <Celestar> | (1996) |
| 07:41 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | Celestar: it depends heavily on the city you are in ;) |
| 07:41 | <Celestar> | Eddi|zuHause2: I'm in expensive-city |
| 07:41 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | i know ;) |
| 07:42 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | Frostregen: not much snow in the last year, it appears :p |
| 07:42 | <Frostregen> | right ;) |
| 07:42 | <Frostregen> | but still...rain |
| 07:43 | <Frostregen> | people just don't know how to handle their cars |
| 07:43 | <Celestar> | too many fair-weather-drivers |
| 07:43 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | well, the effect of rain on the braking distance is easily misjudged |
| 07:44 | <Frostregen> | because they never tested it |
| 07:44 | <Celestar> | it depends highly on the intensity, the tyres, and the road itself |
| 07:44 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | because that is not part of the driving school |
| 07:44 | <Celestar> | Eddi|zuHause2: which is a bad thing imho |
| 07:45 | <Frostregen> | i think this is not possible in driving school |
| 07:45 | <Frostregen> | you learn how to handle a car after the driving school |
| 07:45 | <Frostregen> | would take way to much time |
| 07:46 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | my driving school offered a free coupon for a driving security lesson after finishing |
| 07:47 | <Celestar> | Frostregen: imagine pilots would operate like that .. |
| 07:48 | <Frostregen> | there are simulators :) |
| 07:48 | <Celestar> | there are car simulators as well |
| 07:48 | <Frostregen> | i have never seen any good |
| 07:48 | <ln> | 14:33 < Digitalfox> I have seen a A3 from a friend [...] Sure yhe car had no fixing possible, and he was alone in the car, but he survived at 190KM/s <--- that's fast |
| 07:49 | <ln> | the friction by the atmosphere must be significant |
| 07:50 | <Frostregen> | compare with racing simulations... without the feel for acceleration/weight distribution, i just can't drive |
| 07:50 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | an aquaintance of mine almost died in his van (~100km/h) when he hit a lorry (~30km/h) going uphill |
| 07:50 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | Frostregen: i agree |
| 07:59 | * | Celestar resumes replacing 320 trains with maglevs |
| 07:59 | <CIA-3> | OpenTTD: truebrain * r13772 /branches/noai/src/ (ai/ai.cpp ai/ai_info.cpp settings.cpp): [NoAI] -Fix: make the AIPlayer settings _newgame aware |
| 07:59 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | i haven't done this maglev replacing in years |
| 08:00 | <Celestar> | neither have I :P |
| 08:00 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | not since i found the dbset ;) |
| 08:00 | <Celestar> | but that has the TR09 |
| 08:00 | <Celestar> | and the ICE3 sucks for my network |
| 08:01 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | you mentioned ;) |
| 08:01 | <Celestar> | I can also reduce the number of trains |
| 08:01 | <Celestar> | which really really really helps |
| 08:02 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | as long as you do not have any cargo trains ;) |
| 08:02 | <Celestar> | I don't :) |
| 08:02 | <Celestar> | this is a pax only game |
| 08:02 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | yes, i figured ;) |
| 08:05 | <Celestar> | I'd rather restart the network with much fewer trains now and then slowly upgauge it again |
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| 08:06 | <Mchl> | hello |
| 08:11 | <Celestar> | \o |
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| 08:24 | <Ammler> | "Flyspray was unable to connect to the database. Check your settings in flyspray.conf.php" |
| 08:30 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | post a bug report at flyspray :p |
| 08:31 | <Ammler> | :P |
| 08:31 | <Ammler> | Eddi|zuHause2: btw, GRF gui has now support for ECS. |
| 08:31 | <Ammler> | but not optional :-) |
| 08:31 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | err... what? |
| 08:32 | <Ammler> | http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=35001&p=710640#p710640 |
| 08:32 | <blathijs> | Ammler: I asked truebrain to fix it, it's working again now |
| 08:32 | <Ammler> | fast guys, thanks :-) |
| 08:33 | <Ammler> | hmm, seems not in FS |
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| 09:04 | <fjb> | Hello |
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| 09:10 | <CIA-3> | OpenTTD: rubidium * r13773 /trunk/src/ (network/network_server.cpp settings.cpp): -Codechange: disable autoclean for protected/unprotected companies when the timeout is set to 0. Based on an idea by Thomas. |
| 09:11 | * | Celestar sighs |
| 09:12 | <ln> | who's Thomas? |
| 09:12 | <planetmaker> | rortom |
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| 09:27 | <Celestar> | heh |
| 09:27 | <Celestar> | I've just spent $18e9 on the maglev replacing process |
| 09:27 | <Celestar> | nearly broke now :P |
| 09:27 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | nice ;) |
| 09:28 | <Celestar> | 19 left to replace, 7 to discard |
| 09:28 | <Celestar> | the main question is: I have then 220 maglevs in the depots: Should I jumpstart them or launch them in some kind of organized manner? |
| 09:29 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | hm... i never have a use for the ET-11 |
| 09:32 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | the game probably needs to start earlier, so you can have a big network by the time these express trains come out |
| 09:33 | <Celestar> | Eddi|zuHause2: yes. |
| 09:33 | <Celestar> | when did you start? |
| 09:33 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | 1922 or so... with daylength x4 |
| 09:33 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | now it's 1935 |
| 09:34 | <Celestar> | started in 1920 here (no daylength, no build on pause) |
| 09:34 | <Ammler> | Eddi|zuHause2: doesn't your towns grow too fast? |
| 09:34 | * | Celestar wonders whether the game will crash when he tries to update the whole rail network to maglev at once |
| 09:35 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | Ammler: the cities grow quite fast, but the villages don't |
| 09:35 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | Ammler: i've tweaked a few values in the daylength patch, though |
| 09:36 | <Ammler> | did you play with eGRVTS already? |
| 09:36 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | like, the 256 tick industry callback is only called every daylength*256ticks |
| 09:36 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | i didn't even play with normal GRVTS |
| 09:36 | <Celestar> | 1 to discard, 10 to replace |
| 09:36 | <Ammler> | you need quite small cities for those horse waggons |
| 09:38 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | Ammler: my central city is now ~30k while the villages around it hardly grew at all |
| 09:40 | * | peter1138 continues with his game. |
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| 09:42 | <fjb> | eGRVTS looks great: http://www.myimg.de/?img=SpaCo28Nov19245cb78.png |
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| 09:43 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | fjb: but that does not help me setting up a full mainline network by 1900 |
| 09:44 | <Celestar> | Eddi|zuHause2: we should ask MB to make trains for the DBSetXL prior to 1920 imho |
| 09:44 | <fjb> | Eddi|zuHause2: Bug MB to implement earlier trains... |
| 09:44 | <@peter1138> | Or Pikka... |
| 09:44 | <@peter1138> | Or... |
| 09:44 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | Celestar: i think he already has, but he is still in the process to get it release ready |
| 09:45 | <@peter1138> | MB won't do it without TTDPatch support. |
| 09:46 | <Celestar> | Eddi|zuHause2: maybe we should do it (= |
| 09:46 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=696446#p696446 |
| 09:46 | <fjb> | That is the problem with MB. But the DBset is still the favorite set of most german players. |
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| 09:46 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | >>i was wondering if you're going to implement pre-1920 material in the upcoming 0.9 release? |
| 09:46 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | >Yes, at least to some degree and that early date showing up only in OTTD, see list below. |
| 09:46 | <@peter1138> | Yeah, and all us UK players only play UKRS too :D |
| 09:46 | <Celestar> | the British trains suck :P |
| 09:46 | <fjb> | Or we create our own german train set. Starting at the Länderbahn age. |
| 09:47 | <Celestar> | at the K. Bay. St. B. |
| 09:47 | <Gekz_> | PRE-1920? |
| 09:47 | <fjb> | Yes |
| 09:47 | <Gekz_> | wtf. |
| 09:47 | -!- | Gekz_ is now known as Gekz |
| 09:47 | <fjb> | Starting 1844 with K. Bay. St. B. |
| 09:47 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | 1835 was the first line i thought |
| 09:48 | <fjb> | 1835 was the Ludwigsbahn, not the K. Bay. St. B. |
| 09:48 | <Celestar> | Eddi|zuHause2: yes. 7th of December if I'm not mistaken. Nue-Fuerth |
| 09:48 | <Gekz> | so |
| 09:48 | <Gekz> | at 1920 |
| 09:48 | <Gekz> | you change newgrfs? |
| 09:48 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | first a tiny route from nürnberg to fürth, and then the mainline from leipzig to dresden |
| 09:48 | <Celestar> | ok |
| 09:48 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | Gekz: why would you do that? |
| 09:48 | * | Celestar tries replacing a 1kx1k map :D |
| 09:49 | <Gekz> | because you can |
| 09:49 | <Celestar> | completed :D cost about $2 billion |
| 09:49 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | Gekz: what do you think does the engine pool do? |
| 09:49 | <Celestar> | :/ do we have any pretty maglev newgrfs? |
| 09:50 | <Ammler> | ukrs and nars |
| 09:50 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | Celestar: there was a "transrapid track" grf, but with the simulated raised tracks it was far from "pretty" |
| 09:50 | <Ammler> | and dbset with transrapid |
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| 09:50 | <Ammler> | ah tracks :-) |
| 09:51 | <Gekz> | Eddi|zuHause2: ... what? |
| 09:51 | <Ammler> | Eddi|zuHause2: it is not that bad with the bridge |
| 09:52 | <Ammler> | signals are a little bit problematic |
| 09:52 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | Ammler: i don't know... i have just seen some screenshots |
| 09:53 | * | Celestar jumpstarts 228 Transrapids and sees what YAPP can do :P |
| 09:54 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | it shouldn't have that much trouble... |
| 09:54 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | if you said 2000 transrapids... :p |
| 09:55 | <Celestar> | would you really want to replace those manually? |
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| 09:57 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | you could try to play a NoAI game and have these tasks scripted ;) |
| 09:57 | <@peter1138> | Eddi|zuHause2: In theory I can make a railtype that is actually raise, but you'd get problems with bridges and tunnels. |
| 09:57 | <@peter1138> | +d |
| 09:57 | <@peter1138> | Oh bollocks! |
| 09:57 | <+glx> | Eddi|zuHause2: it's not possible to have AI and player in the same company |
| 09:58 | <@peter1138> | I built an extensive extension but ran out of money, so there's no train to run on it. |
| 09:59 | <fjb> | peter1138: That is really a bad thing. |
| 09:59 | <Mchl> | we expect explaining explanation |
| 09:59 | <Mchl> | ;P |
| 09:59 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | the max loan should be based on the amount of company assets |
| 10:01 | <@peter1138> | Or lease vehicles. Doesn't cost anything to get them, only a greatly increased running cost. |
| 10:02 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | there should be a simulation of a second market for vehicles |
| 10:02 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | where you can get cheap used vehicles |
| 10:04 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | hm... i don't know where to put my station next to this town... |
| 10:04 | <hylje> | put it inside the town |
| 10:04 | <fjb> | Blow up the town. |
| 10:04 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | there's a steep valley and the town is in the valley, and the rail comes from the hills |
| 10:05 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | i don't want to put the station in the valley, but on the hill there is a factory in the way |
| 10:05 | <hylje> | peter1138: vehicle leasing could be good really, but might be enabled only later on? |
| 10:06 | <fjb> | Eddi|zuHause2: Other side of he valley? |
| 10:06 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | too far away from the city |
| 10:07 | <fjb> | Set up an bus service. |
| 10:08 | <hylje> | approach the city from the valley |
| 10:08 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | sure, but tram rather ;) |
| 10:08 | <fjb> | Horse tram |
| 10:08 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | fjb: this is not 1880 ;) |
| 10:09 | <fjb> | Too bad... |
| 10:09 | <fjb> | But tourists would like a horse tram. Trust me. |
| 10:09 | <hylje> | ponies!! |
| 10:09 | <@peter1138> | hylje, I don't really know the history of it all. |
| 10:09 | <fjb> | Girls like ponies. |
| 10:10 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | i need an "8" button for the station sizes! |
| 10:10 | <@peter1138> | Yes! |
| 10:10 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | 7 is a weird number... |
| 10:11 | <hylje> | what about drag&drop stations? |
| 10:11 | <@peter1138> | I will get stuck later as I'm building 4 tile platforms at the moment. |
| 10:11 | <@peter1138> | hylje, too fiddly. |
| 10:11 | <hylje> | really? |
| 10:12 | <fjb> | You can enhance them later. |
| 10:12 | <@peter1138> | Some can be lengthened. |
| 10:13 | <hylje> | speaking of stations, where are my sloped and curvy stations? |
| 10:13 | <hylje> | or rolling load/unload? |
| 10:14 | <@peter1138> | Hmm, seems like the AI can't make money with UKRS :o |
| 10:14 | <Gekz> | awesome. |
| 10:14 | <@peter1138> | Although supporting the callbacks might help; |
| 10:14 | <Gekz> | they lose. |
| 10:14 | <fjb> | Curvy stationa would be great, or at least diagonal ones. But that will need new sprites. |
| 10:14 | <Gekz> | and new logic. |
| 10:14 | <fjb> | UKRS has very high running costs. |
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| 10:29 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Klein%20Elsmuenster%20Transport,%2026.%20Okt%201935.png <- i think that solution is ok |
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| 10:29 | <@peter1138> | Solution to what? |
| 10:30 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | to place the station near the city, without blocking an exit by an industry and without going into the valley |
| 10:30 | <@peter1138> | Ahh |
| 10:30 | <fjb> | The station building is still missing. |
| 10:31 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | fjb: there are no proper big station buildings... |
| 10:31 | <fjb> | Better a small one than none... |
| 10:31 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | i mean something like 2x2 or 2x3 |
| 10:32 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | now... 3 tram lines waiting for vehicles |
| 10:32 | <Gekz> | make a newgrf! |
| 10:33 | <fjb> | I started on some buildings some time ago, but my drawing skills suck. |
| 10:33 | <@peter1138> | Bah, I really really want passenger destinations. |
| 10:33 | <fjb> | aol |
| 10:34 | <fjb> | I guess Belugas had an idea about cargo destinations just before he went on vacation. |
| 10:34 | <Gekz> | 3D render some real buildings |
| 10:34 | <Gekz> | lol |
| 10:35 | <fjb> | But I don't know if it was just some kind of idea or something more. |
| 10:35 | <@peter1138> | Shouldn't be too hard to pick a route based on orders, right? |
| 10:36 | <fjb> | Take a model railway catalog, cut out the station pictures and glue them to the screen. :-) |
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| 10:36 | <fjb> | peter1138: Right. But how about the non nonstop orders, where a vehicle stops at every station... |
| 10:37 | <Gekz> | lol |
| 10:37 | <fjb> | The last passenger destination patch looked at the orders. |
| 10:37 | <@peter1138> | I'm happy to ignore those for destination routing. |
| 10:38 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | peter1138: the current patch can determine these non-nonstop orders already |
| 10:38 | <@peter1138> | *nod* |
| 10:38 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | maybe that part can be salvaged somehow |
| 10:39 | <fjb> | Will that patch survive or does it have to be done in a completely new way to fix the desyncs? |
| 10:42 | <Celestar> | Rubidium: I'm closing in: 2.4 million units of cargo per year |
| 10:42 | <CIA-3> | OpenTTD: peter1138 * r13774 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Codechange: Add support for changing vehicle purchase list position for all vehicle types. |
| 10:42 | <Yexo> | Celestar: what map size / settings? |
| 10:43 | <Celestar> | Yexo: 1024x1024. pax only |
| 10:43 | <Yexo> | how many towns? |
| 10:43 | <Celestar> | too many :S |
| 10:43 | <Celestar> | I have about 50% connected up to now |
| 10:43 | <Celestar> | "low" |
| 10:44 | <Celestar> | I think 228 or so |
| --- | Log | closed Mon Jul 21 10:52:43 2008 |
| --- | Log | opened Mon Jul 21 10:58:21 2008 |
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| 11:12 | * | peter1138 ponders working on destinations |
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| 11:13 | * | Yexo hopes peter1138 will code it :) |
| 11:13 | * | Yorick hopes Yexo's wish will come true |
| 11:17 | * | hylje hopes it will never make it to the destination just to spite Yorick |
| 11:20 | <planetmaker> | [16:10][16:10] <Eddi|zuHause2> i need an "8" button for the station sizes! <-- I rather wished there was a <- 7 -> changable number for station size :) |
| 11:20 | <hylje> | default station size 7*7 |
| 11:21 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | planetmaker: no, i often switch between values like 1x1 (for individual station parts) and 8x6 (for whole initial station size) |
| 11:21 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | it should be random access |
| 11:22 | <planetmaker> | Eddi|zuHause2: both. keeping the numbers as is, an addition # button and place a <- # -> slider next to it, setting the # for the custom size |
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| 11:23 | <planetmaker> | or maybe station size pre-sets :) |
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| 11:32 | * | peter1138 mumbles about MB's station's buffers being 1x1 only... |
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| 11:40 | <zooks> | hello |
| 11:40 | <zooks> | can anyone maybe help me with buildOttd? |
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| 11:41 | <Ammler> | I know, you do not like comparing with patch, but isn't the "+7" a good idea? |
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| 11:43 | <@peter1138> | No. |
| 11:43 | <Progman> | zooks: at least the author can ;) |
| 11:44 | <joachim> | what's "+7"? |
| 11:44 | <@peter1138> | TTDPatch's way of allowing larger stations. |
| 11:45 | <Ammler> | if active, it adds +7 to the length you choosed. |
| 11:45 | <joachim> | ah |
| 11:45 | <DaleStan> | It's TTDPatch's old way of allowing larger stations, and I agree that there are better solutions. |
| 11:46 | <Ammler> | old way, is there a newer? |
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| 11:49 | <DaleStan> | Sort of. Combine irregularstations and largestations, and you can tack on whatever tiles or platforms you want/need. |
| 11:50 | <@peter1138> | Ammler: "chose" |
| 11:51 | <CIA-3> | OpenTTD: glx * r13775 /trunk/src/network/network_server.cpp: -Codechange: enforce the validity of a NetworkAction (chat packet) issued by a client |
| 11:51 | <DaleStan> | That's my usual way; if you know when you're building the station that it needs to be bigger than 7x7, you're either seriously over-engineering, or replacing a station. (I basically don't do the latter.) |
| 11:52 | <@peter1138> | Mmm, cup of tea :D |
| 11:52 | <Ammler> | well, 8 is quite common, DBSet ICE has that length fixed (4-8-12-16) |
| 11:53 | <joachim> | i use 30 |
| 11:53 | <@peter1138> | 30 tiles long? |
| 11:53 | <@peter1138> | Some limits should never've been broken :p |
| 11:53 | <joachim> | for the mainline goods trains |
| 11:53 | <joachim> | hehe |
| 11:54 | <Ammler> | does the train needs to wait for loading? |
| 11:54 | <Brianetta> | 8 platforms is great for having two termini facing different directions. |
| 11:54 | <Ammler> | else it would be better, if you have more smaller trains. (for raiting) |
| 11:55 | <joachim> | of course, there has to be huge amounts of goods available |
| 11:55 | <joachim> | or feeders |
| 11:56 | <Brianetta> | Very long coal trains look pretty good if you use a combination of Blunck's null station tiles and the industrial coal loader. Put the coal loader in the middle of the station, and have the train protrude significantly from each end on the invisible parts. |
| 11:56 | <Brianetta> | If you have several platforms, you can mix up the lengths of the invisible protrusions |
| 11:56 | <Brianetta> | It looks quite real at a glance |
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| 11:59 | <Ammler> | they should be transparent... |
| 11:59 | <Ammler> | wasn't that possible in early times? |
| 11:59 | <Brianetta> | They look like regular track |
| 12:00 | <Brianetta> | So it looks (at first glance) like all the loading trains are at various stages of loading, real-life stylee |
| 12:00 | <Brianetta> | where they shunt the train through, a wagon at a time |
| 12:00 | <Ammler> | they are called *void" afaik |
| 12:00 | <Brianetta> | If only there was a way to decouple the mainline loco and use it for something else in the meantime... |
| 12:00 | <Brianetta> | I'm sure they are. |
| 12:01 | <Ammler> | :-) |
| 12:01 | <Brianetta> | I'm at work, though, and can't check |
| 12:02 | <Ammler> | you are sure, you do not need :P |
| 12:02 | <@peter1138> | Someone should implement that properly. |
| 12:03 | <Ammler> | you could "refit" it to transparent |
| 12:08 | <Ammler> | train goes to depot -> autoreplace with transparent engine -> loading -> depot autoreplace to heavy engine --> |
| 12:09 | <@peter1138> | Well I meant the rolling loading actually. |
| 12:09 | <@peter1138> | Also there was the word 'properly' ;p |
| 12:09 | <Ammler> | :-) |
| 12:11 | <Ammler> | something in combination with eddis middle stop |
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| 12:12 | <Ammler> | and only loading where the train has plattform, instead of slow down. |
| 12:13 | * | peter1138 ponders also resurrecting the 'bendy' stations patch. |
| 12:13 | <@peter1138> | Although I have no idea how to integrate that with NewGRF stations. |
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| 12:23 | <Brianetta> | peter1138: How does a bendy station work? |
| 12:23 | <Brianetta> | All you'd need, surely, is one grf for the bendy ones |
| 12:23 | <Yorick> | is 0.6.2-RC2 going to be released any time soon? |
| 12:23 | <Brianetta> | People can continue to use current grfs regular orthogonal stations. |
| 12:24 | <@peter1138> | Well corner pieces... |
| 12:24 | <blathijs> | Yorick: Is RC1 broken? |
| 12:24 | <Yorick> | no |
| 12:24 | <Yorick> | but quite a few bugs got backported |
| 12:25 | <Yexo> | bugs got backported <- I hope this isn't true :p |
| 12:26 | * | peter1138 attempts to read this paxdest patch. |
| 12:27 | * | Rubidium calls peter1138's shrink to prepare for a visit |
| 12:27 | <@peter1138> | Too late. |
| 12:27 | <@peter1138> | Sheesh this is bad! |
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| 12:29 | <@peter1138> | CARGO_DESTINATION_SLOT_LEHGTH |
| 12:29 | <@peter1138> | Nice typing. |
| 12:30 | <Brianetta> | peter1138: That alone should be enough to discard it. |
| 12:31 | * | peter1138 wonders if the concept of returning passengers is really necessary. |
| 12:32 | * | joachim think it's not |
| 12:40 | <Celestar> | peter1138: which one peter1138 ? |
| 12:42 | <Celestar> | peter1138: the one on the dev forum? |
| 12:46 | <Celestar> | meh |
| 12:46 | <Celestar> | why are my ratings stuck at 83? |
| 12:46 | <Rubidium> | too slow trains? |
| 12:46 | <Rubidium> | too much cargo? |
| 12:46 | <Celestar> | Rubidium: 502km/h |
| 12:46 | <fjb> | Just to annoy you. |
| 12:46 | <Brianetta> | Some passengers at the destination will randomly want to take the same journey in reverse. They'll do. |
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| 12:47 | <Rubidium> | except tourists, they want to take another route to another tourist attraction ;) |
| 12:49 | <fjb> | Poor tourists want to go back home. All expenses tourists don't have any destination and are carried anywhere like it is now without the patch. ;-) |
| 12:51 | <Celestar> | http://www.fvfischer.de/geekstation.png <= this is getting out of hand |
| 12:52 | <fjb> | Doen't look that unusual. |
| 12:52 | <Celestar> | yeah but I prefer less cramped stations |
| 12:53 | <Celestar> | like so: http://www.fvfischer.de/space.png |
| 12:53 | <fjb> | I once had a mainline crossing a town on bridges. |
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| 12:55 | <fjb> | Peter's small things under briddges patch would have been helpfull then. |
| 12:55 | <Celestar> | "small things" being? |
| 12:55 | <Ammler> | hmm "X" doesn't work on screenshots :-P |
| 12:55 | <fjb> | Low station parts, bus stops, small houses. |
| 12:56 | <fjb> | Ammler: Really? |
| 12:56 | <Ammler> | :-) |
| 12:56 | <Celestar> | bus stops: ok. stations: ok. houses: ? |
| 12:56 | <Celestar> | neither does RMB+drag |
| 12:56 | <fjb> | Dragging with the left mouse button also doesn't work. |
| 12:56 | <Ammler> | strange, isn't? |
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| 12:57 | <fjb> | Celestar: There are small houses and tall houses. The game should know the bounding box of a house. |
| 12:57 | <joachim> | absofruitely |
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| 13:00 | <Celestar> | fjb: normally, bridges are not built OVER houses, are they? |
| 13:00 | <joachim> | with the town growth patch it seems obstacles (like tracks) stops towns from expanding in all directions, does anyone else have or know about that? |
| 13:00 | <joachim> | not sure it the behaviour is different without that patch |
| 13:01 | <joachim> | if |
| 13:01 | <fjb> | Celestar: Peter has a secret patch in his cellar. |
| 13:03 | <Ammler> | as always...$ |
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| 13:13 | <fjb> | Quack frosch123 :-) |
| 13:13 | <frosch123> | moin fjb :p |
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| 13:22 | <Celestar> | MEH |
| 13:22 | <Celestar> | andromeda:/home 8.9T 8.5T 398G 96% /nfs/home |
| 13:29 | <@peter1138> | The problem is, maglev is ugly. |
| 13:30 | <@peter1138> | I have no idea what half this patch is supposed to be doing :o |
| 13:31 | <Celestar> | peter1138: the paxdest? |
| 13:32 | <@peter1138> | Yes. |
| 13:33 | <Celestar> | peter1138: I know what it does. It runs a for-loop over all cargopackets every single day :o |
| 13:34 | <Celestar> | suggestion solution by author: do this on a second core (or something along those lines) |
| 13:35 | <Celestar> | peter1138: are we going to pursue the paxdest thing at some point or not? I've had quite some ideas about it which might actually work :P |
| 13:39 | <@peter1138> | I'd like to, not necessarily this way, though. |
| 13:39 | <@peter1138> | My theory is destinations only need to be updated if orders are changed. |
| 13:40 | <@peter1138> | But I don't know quite what that for-loop does. |
| 13:41 | <@peter1138> | I don't know what the statistics are used for. |
| 13:43 | <ln> | http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/entertainment/7517730.stm |
| 13:44 | <@peter1138> | Oh, *Janet* |
| 13:45 | <+glx> | <Celestar> suggestion solution by author: do this on a second core (or something along those lines) <-- as it already fail to work in multiplayer that won't matter ;) |
| 13:47 | <@peter1138> | I'd also like to see destinations for all cargo types. |
| 13:47 | <@peter1138> | All optional, of course. |
| 13:47 | <Celestar> | peter1138: your theory is congruent with my theory |
| 13:47 | <Celestar> | peter1138: and it does work. |
| 13:47 | <@peter1138> | Different methods of selecting destination depending on the cargo's behaviour (TE_ enum) |
| 13:47 | <Celestar> | peter1138: I've got to go, can we resume this tomorrow? :D |
| 13:48 | <planetmaker> | [19:47][19:47] <peter1138> All optional, of course. <--- please! Or it would be worse than with stockpiling and rough economy and ECS :) |
| 13:48 | <@peter1138> | I'm fully aware that not everyone sees the benefits ;) |
| 13:49 | <Celestar> | hrh |
| 13:49 | <Celestar> | cu guys |
| 13:49 | <planetmaker> | peter1138: it's not that I don't see the benefit. But I know that I _also_ enjoy the traditional game with huge piles at one station :) |
| 13:49 | <planetmaker> | cu Celestar |
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| 13:50 | <@peter1138> | That was a joke :) |
| 13:51 | <planetmaker> | :D |
| 13:51 | <Wolf01> | hello |
| 13:51 | <planetmaker> | I just don't come around often to testing non MP patches :) |
| 13:51 | <@peter1138> | God damn, I'm in love with michi_cc! |
| 13:52 | <planetmaker> | though I did with this... |
| 13:52 | <planetmaker> | o_O |
| 13:52 | <@peter1138> | YAPP of course :p |
| 13:52 | <SmatZ> | no need to exaplain further :) |
| 13:52 | <SmatZ> | -a |
