| --- | Log | opened Mon Mar 31 00:00:31 2008 |
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| 02:32 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: truebrain * r12491 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (42 files): |
| 02:32 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Documentation: made parts of the comments more uniform (@file header and class header) |
| 02:32 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Documentation: fixed the order of functions: SetNN before GetNN, Build after Set/Get, Remove after Build. This makes reading the docs more easy |
| 02:32 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Documentation: Removed unneeded comments which were direct copy/paste all over the place |
| 02:32 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Fix: missing $Id$ tags |
| 02:33 | -!- | Xeryus|bnc is now known as XeryusTC |
| 02:33 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: truebrain * r12492 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (ai_tile.hpp ai_vehiclelist.hpp): [NoAI] -Fix: missing propset |
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| 02:37 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: truebrain * r12493 /branches/noai/ (9 files in 4 dirs): [NoAI] -Remove [API CHANGE]: AIPathFinder should never been part of this API (more like a contrib or extended something) |
| 02:37 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: truebrain * r12494 /branches/noai/projects/ (openttd_vs80.vcproj openttd_vs90.vcproj): [NoAI] -Fix r12493: update MSVC project files when removing files |
| 02:42 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: rubidium * r12495 /trunk/src/ (18 files): -Codechange: reduce the dependency on newgrf_station.h (especially because newgrf_station.h includes a lot of stuff). |
| 02:45 | <@DorpsGek> | Celestar: Open Bugs: 30; Not assigned: 22; Closed this week: 7; Opened this week: 17 |
| 02:45 | <Celestar> | ? |
| 02:46 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: truebrain * r12496 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (37 files): |
| 02:46 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Documentation: give the .cpp files a nice uniform format too |
| 02:46 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Fix: fixed the last missing $Id$ and propset |
| 02:49 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: truebrain * r12497 /branches/noai/ (7 files in 2 dirs): [NoAI] -Change [API CHANGE]: AIMap.DemolishTile -> AITile.DemolishTile (that makes much more sense, doesn't it? ;)) |
| 02:49 | <Celestar> | why does a "sound cracking" bug have "high" severity? |
| 02:50 | <Patrick`> | because it actually affects something the end-user experiences? |
| 02:51 | <@peter1138> | because users think their bug is most important |
| 02:51 | <Celestar> | :P |
| 02:51 | * | Celestar is downgrading it |
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| 02:58 | <@Rubidium> | Celestar: new bugs, most the cause of the RC but none of them are actually interesting :( |
| 03:03 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: rubidium * r12498 /trunk/src/openttd.cpp: -Codechange: bring a little 'order' to openttd.cpp's includes and do not 'define' VARDEF for files that do not have them anymore. |
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| 03:04 | <@peter1138> | Just remove all VARDEFs! |
| 03:04 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | what's a VARDEF anyway? |
| 03:04 | <@peter1138> | A lazy construct. |
| 03:04 | <@Rubidium> | that's the final plan, but this is just preventing people from adding VARDEFs to most of the code-base |
| 03:05 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | and what's bad about laziness ;) |
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| 03:05 | <Celestar> | VARDEFs suck |
| 03:06 | <Celestar> | variable definitions shouldn't be in headers. |
| 03:06 | <Celestar> | whatever ... /me goes to work |
| 03:11 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: rubidium * r12499 /trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: some coding style tweaks for network_internal.h. |
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| 03:21 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: truebrain * r12500 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (6 files): [NoAI] -Documentation: many comment changes, mostly Capitals and lines end with a dot. Makes doxygen look pretty :) |
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| 03:26 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: rubidium * r12501 /trunk/ (16 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: split signs.h. |
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| 03:26 | <Celestar> | wow Rubidium :) |
| 03:27 | <Celestar> | you're really pissed at the state of the header files aren't you? |
| 03:27 | <@Rubidium> | somewhat yeah |
| 03:27 | <Celestar> | not without reason ;) |
| 03:27 | * | peter1138 ponders testing the build time now |
| 03:29 | * | Celestar wonders whether Rubidium will help him with syncing NewGRF_ports now ;) |
| 03:29 | <Celestar> | peter1138: is it me or did the build time get out of hand? |
| 03:29 | <@peter1138> | it did, not helped by moving to c++ but it got worse after that |
| 03:30 | * | peter1138 times it |
| 03:30 | <Celestar> | peter1138: debug or no debug? ;) |
| 03:30 | <ln> | just buy 4-core machines, people |
| 03:30 | <@Rubidium> | some templates are pretty heavy |
| 03:30 | <@peter1138> | debug |
| 03:30 | <@peter1138> | but i like my 8 year old machine, ln |
| 03:31 | <caladan> | hmm, use some distcc? :D |
| 03:31 | <Celestar> | man ... LHR's terminal 5 is really a disaster, right? ;) |
| 03:31 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | a what? |
| 03:31 | <Celestar> | forget it ? ;) |
| 03:31 | <@Rubidium> | I just thought they continued to improve their record |
| 03:32 | <Celestar> | Rubidium: yeah, apart from the fact that they ask people not to bring luggage because the luggage system doesn't work, everything else is ok. |
| 03:32 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | Celestar: well, i haven't been to that many airports |
| 03:32 | <Celestar> | Eddi|zuHause2: Heathrow sucks. Ass. |
| 03:33 | <Celestar> | it's _almost_ as bad as Charles-de-Gaulle |
| 03:34 | <caladan> | and not as bad as the one in Warsaw ;-) |
| 03:34 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | what are the criteria for judging the suckiness of an airport? |
| 03:34 | <@Rubidium> | number of lost pieces of luggage a minute and number of canceled flight per minute being more than resp. 50 and 1? |
| 03:35 | <@peter1138> | Monty Python already did a song about it... |
| 03:35 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | yeah, and you already have a patch for it ;) |
| 03:35 | <@peter1138> | # And I'm worried about the baggage retrieval system they've got at Heathrow |
| 03:36 | <Celestar> | Eddi|zuHause2: lost luggage, delays, cancellations, signage, roofs falling on passengers.... |
| 03:36 | <Celestar> | :o 3:39 for building ottd |
| 03:37 | <Celestar> | caladan: _nothing_ sucks as much as does LHR or CDG. well ... JFK maybe |
| 03:37 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | i've been to munich airport some 10 years ago |
| 03:37 | <Celestar> | :) |
| 03:37 | <@peter1138> | real 4m48.500s |
| 03:37 | <@peter1138> | although |
| 03:37 | <@peter1138> | user 3m19.248s |
| 03:37 | <@peter1138> | sys 0m28.458s |
| 03:38 | <caladan> | Celestar: you see, the airport in warsaw is almost in the center of city. no way to get there in rush hours, and its overcrowded :] |
| 03:38 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: truebrain * r12502 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (ai_engine.hpp ai_industry.hpp ai_map.hpp ai_marine.hpp): [NoAI] -Documentation: even more comment consistancy |
| 03:38 | <Celestar> | 158.721u 16.273s 3:39.05 79.8% 0+0k 0+0io 14pf+0w |
| 03:39 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | i shoul have timed svn up first ;) |
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| 03:39 | <Celestar> | hey Eddi|zuHause2 |
| 03:40 | * | Celestar wonders which part of the compilation is so slow :S |
| 03:40 | <@peter1138> | yapf ;) |
| 03:40 | <Celestar> | :P |
| 03:40 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | but yapf didn't really change |
| 03:40 | <Celestar> | find *.h | wc -l |
| 03:40 | <Celestar> | 176 |
| 03:41 | <Celestar> | that's a crapload |
| 03:41 | <Celestar> | or a fuckton |
| 03:41 | <ln> | real 0m28.633s |
| 03:41 | <ln> | user 1m32.208s |
| 03:43 | <@Rubidium> | Celestar: yes, it's a lot but reducing the size (and thus dependency on other headers) of the headers helps quite a bit in compile time |
| 03:44 | <Celestar> | I quite agree |
| 03:44 | <Celestar> | I was just wondering ;) |
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| 03:45 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | real 4m39.522s |
| 03:45 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | user 3m36.342s |
| 03:45 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | sys 0m14.665s |
| 03:45 | <@Rubidium> | Celestar, about NewGRF_ports: I've quite given up on that one |
| 03:46 | <Celestar> | Rubidium: the syncing? |
| 03:46 | <@Rubidium> | it getting finished within reasonable time |
| 03:46 | <Celestar> | Rubidium: it basically is finished ;) |
| 03:47 | <Celestar> | we need one more newgrf features (station animation) and it's done. |
| 03:47 | <Celestar> | grep -c "^#include" * | awk -F: '{print $2 " " $1}' | sort -n | tail -3 |
| 03:47 | <Celestar> | 48 train_cmd.cpp |
| 03:47 | <Celestar> | 50 main_gui.cpp |
| 03:47 | <Celestar> | 70 openttd.cpp |
| 03:47 | <@Rubidium> | Celestar: no it is NOT |
| 03:47 | <Celestar> | 70 includes? :o |
| 03:47 | <Celestar> | Rubidium: what's missing? |
| 03:47 | <@Rubidium> | Celestar: and they're all needed -> ergo openttd.cpp has become one big mess |
| 03:47 | <@Rubidium> | Celestar: it is one big copy-paste which is already unmaintainable |
| 03:48 | <@Rubidium> | furthermore there are todos and warnings all over the place |
| 03:48 | <Celestar> | Rubidium: I'll see through the newgrf_port code and see what can be done. |
| 03:48 | <@Rubidium> | coding style suck as much as T5 |
| 03:48 | <Celestar> | that's bad. |
| 03:48 | <Celestar> | so you suggest starting over? |
| 03:48 | <@Rubidium> | and RichK couldn't be 'bothered' about coding style because he first wanted to get it working |
| 03:49 | <@Rubidium> | that reminds me of TGP which also took a few months of work after he said it was finished |
| 03:49 | <Celestar> | ;) |
| 03:49 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | i have voiced my concern about "first get it working" before... |
| 03:50 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | only i have no voice |
| 03:50 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | so nobody listens ;) |
| 03:50 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: rubidium * r12503 /branches/noai/ (140 files in 7 dirs): [NoAI] -Sync: with trunk r12461:12501. |
| 03:51 | <Celestar> | lol |
| 03:51 | <@Rubidium> | Eddi|zuHause2: only RichK doesn't listen |
| 03:51 | <Celestar> | Rubidium: so .. start over and implement the features in an orderly style? |
| 03:51 | <@Rubidium> | Celestar: and RichK's last episode doesn't encourage me to continue with his work either. |
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| 03:55 | <Celestar> | what happened? |
| 03:55 | <@Rubidium> | Celestar: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=675071#p675071 |
| 03:56 | <@Rubidium> | he basically said that we didn't plan ahead because we didn't add much unused free bytes to the map in one go |
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| 03:58 | <Celestar> | what do we need that 1 bit for? |
| 03:58 | <@Rubidium> | for his 'all climate world map' idea |
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| 03:59 | <@Rubidium> | but that isn't the problem, it's just that he blames us for trying to keep the savegame file as small as possible with the current features |
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| 04:00 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | i think he missed the point that the extension of the map array was not meant to be static, but that it can easily be extended further if necessary |
| 04:02 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | and this was a suggestion independent from richk: http://gonozalviii.go.funpic.de/openttd/terrain.png |
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| 04:08 | <Celestar> | Rubidium: I'll try to re-implement, k? |
| 04:08 | <@peter1138> | most of it just station code anyway |
| 04:09 | <Celestar> | 'yah |
| 04:09 | <Celestar> | peter1138: will you help? ;) |
| 04:09 | <@Rubidium> | Celestar: better get station anims working first :) |
| 04:10 | * | peter1138 coughs at his patch |
| 04:10 | <Celestar> | good point. peter1138 has it working? ;) |
| 04:11 | <@peter1138> | partly |
| 04:11 | <@peter1138> | as in, probably but not completely tested |
| 04:11 | <@peter1138> | and some triggers are not in place |
| 04:13 | <@peter1138> | gah, aero is shit |
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| 04:23 | <amix> | just want you to know that SDL is now ported to symbian mobiles |
| 04:23 | <amix> | http://koti.mbnet.fi/~mertama/sdl.html |
| 04:23 | <amix> | openttd on Nokia E90 would be great! |
| 04:24 | <Phantasm> | Lol. |
| 04:25 | <Celestar> | amix: what's the display size on that device? |
| 04:25 | <Trond> | is the big screenshot option broken, or is it just that my system cannot handle the huge png/bmp files? |
| 04:25 | <@Rubidium> | Trond: broken in what manner? |
| 04:25 | <Phantasm> | Celestar: 800x352 |
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| 04:25 | <Trond> | broken in the manner that I get a file I cannot open... |
| 04:25 | <@Rubidium> | amix: AFAIK there's already a symbian port somewhere |
| 04:26 | <Phantasm> | How well does it run? As long as you don't play bigger maps than 64x64? ;P |
| 04:26 | <@Rubidium> | then you most liky do not have enough memory |
| 04:26 | <Trond> | 2gb isnt enough for a 600mb file? |
| 04:26 | <amix> | hehe |
| 04:26 | <Phantasm> | Might be so. |
| 04:26 | <Trond> | the files come out around 600mb :P |
| 04:27 | <amix> | Celestar: 800x352 |
| 04:27 | <@Rubidium> | Trond: not when it's highly compressed and your view is lame enough to uncompress it in memory |
| 04:27 | <Gekz> | Phantasm: I ran OpenTTD on my Palm TX |
| 04:27 | <Gekz> | 16MB of ram |
| 04:27 | <Gekz> | lol |
| 04:27 | <Gekz> | 300MHz |
| 04:27 | <Gekz> | played 256x256 maps |
| 04:27 | <Gekz> | do not use the new ai >_> |
| 04:27 | <Phantasm> | Hehe. |
| 04:27 | <Trond> | my view? meaning the app I use? |
| 04:27 | <amix> | Rubidium: there is? |
| 04:28 | <amix> | psp have it |
| 04:28 | <@Rubidium> | well, it should work on E60 |
| 04:28 | <amix> | openttd on e90 would be great |
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| 04:28 | <Celestar> | amix: that should be enough :) |
| 04:28 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | i have had problems with big png files independent from ottd |
| 04:29 | <amix> | E90 got 128mb internal mem |
| 04:29 | <amix> | got PowerVR 3D |
| 04:29 | <Phantasm> | Out of which about 80 MB is free after the OS and stuff. |
| 04:29 | <amix> | 330MHz ARM |
| 04:29 | <amix> | Phantasm: no |
| 04:29 | <Celestar> | 80 MB .. |
| 04:29 | <amix> | 128mb |
| 04:29 | <Trond> | ok eddi, I guess I'll try with a smaller map and see if that works... I tried open them with irfanview, paintshoppro, paint... |
| 04:30 | <Phantasm> | amix: 128 MB out of which the OS uses about 50 MB. |
| 04:30 | <amix> | Celestar: well.. lots of programs is installed on internal mem |
| 04:30 | <@Rubidium> | Trond: what size map did you screendump by the way? |
| 04:30 | <amix> | also some pics etc |
| 04:30 | <amix> | which takes space |
| 04:31 | <Trond> | I think its 1024x2048 |
| 04:31 | <amix> | make use of the memcard would be nice |
| 04:31 | <Phantasm> | amix: Don't talk about memory when refering to storage space. |
| 04:31 | <amix> | Phantasm: hrhr |
| 04:31 | <amix> | i am an amigan |
| 04:31 | <amix> | we store stuff in ram disk |
| 04:31 | <amix> | haha |
| 04:31 | <amix> | ;p |
| 04:31 | <@Rubidium> | @calc 1024x32x2048x64/1024 |
| 04:31 | <@DorpsGek> | Rubidium: Error: invalid syntax (line 1) |
| 04:31 | <Gekz> | lol |
| 04:31 | <@peter1138> | * ;) |
| 04:31 | <@Rubidium> | @calc 1024*32*2048*64/1024 |
| 04:31 | <@DorpsGek> | Rubidium: 4194304 |
| 04:32 | <@Rubidium> | so it'd just need 4 GB to uncompress the png |
| 04:32 | <amix> | well |
| 04:32 | <amix> | quake 1 |
| 04:32 | <Trond> | ouch |
| 04:32 | <amix> | and quake 3 |
| 04:32 | <amix> | 2 |
| 04:32 | <amix> | runs on e90 now |
| 04:32 | <amix> | runs nice even |
| 04:32 | <Phantasm> | E90 got 256 MB of NAND that allows a max of 128 MB user storage.. It has 128 MB of SDRAM memory of which about 80 MB is free after OS and such.. Upto 4 GB MicroSD card is officially supported. |
| 04:32 | <@Rubidium> | and that means that only 64 bits binaries can open the png 'the lame way' |
| 04:32 | <Trond> | that explains it I guess, thanks rubidium :) |
| 04:33 | <Gekz> | Rubidium: the lame way/ |
| 04:33 | <Trond> | what programs does not open it the lame way then? :D |
| 04:33 | <amix> | Phantasm: then symbian supports virtualmem i guess |
| 04:33 | <amix> | since quake 2 requires a lot |
| 04:34 | <mrfrenzy> | ottd runs really nice on sony ericsson M600i, BUT, the small screen makes it impossible to play |
| 04:34 | <amix> | more than 64mb |
| 04:34 | <Phantasm> | I'm sure symbian port of Q2 won't require more than 80 MB. |
| 04:34 | <Phantasm> | Does the symbian port of Q2 run on say E70? |
| 04:34 | <amix> | openttd port would? |
| 04:34 | <amix> | Phantasm: try |
| 04:34 | <amix> | http://koti.mbnet.fi/hinkka/Download.html |
| 04:35 | <amix> | Phantasm: openttd could use of 3D to make openttd run faster also |
| 04:35 | <@Rubidium> | Trond: no idea, but maybe some of the command line conversion tools |
| 04:35 | <@peter1138> | use 3d? hah |
| 04:35 | <@Rubidium> | amix: please provide proof for that statement |
| 04:35 | <Phantasm> | 25-30 MB of free RAM for symbian Q2. |
| 04:35 | <Trond> | okey |
| 04:36 | <amix> | Rubidium: what statement? |
| 04:36 | <Phantasm> | Some more for hardware renderer. |
| 04:36 | <@peter1138> | 10-20MB RAM is enough for openttd |
| 04:36 | <@Rubidium> | amix: that 3D make openttd run faster |
| 04:36 | <amix> | well |
| 04:36 | <amix> | quake 2 uses gl on e90 |
| 04:36 | <amix> | makes it runs faster |
| 04:36 | <amix> | same with amiga emulator |
| 04:37 | <amix> | with gl, it renders faster |
| 04:37 | <Phantasm> | Software rendering uses the CPU, while hardware rendering uses the GPU more or less. |
| 04:37 | <Phantasm> | So, using hardware rendering, more of the CPU should be free for other stuff. |
| 04:38 | * | Rubidium wonders whether gl can handle 10.000+ textures, especially on a symbian |
| 04:39 | <amix> | well, e90 got wlan, hsdpa support. playing openttd on it would be great. a neat feature for it would be keymapping offcourse. build with one key, move arround with others. in that way, a mobile version would be nice |
| 04:39 | <@Rubidium> | or even *many* more when you have many NewGRFs loaded |
| 04:40 | <amix> | http://my-symbian.com/s60v3/software/applications.php?fldAuto=225&faq=9 |
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| 04:41 | <amix> | duke nukem 3d is now out also |
| 04:41 | <amix> | :) |
| 04:42 | <amix> | Phantasm: i am using morphos, macosx, symbian and windows |
| 04:42 | <amix> | i love morphos, idore macosx, use symbian, play in windows |
| 04:42 | <amix> | ;) |
| 04:42 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: truebrain * r12504 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (9 files): [NoAI] -Documentation: the last few files which now are consistent in their comments (anyway, so I hope :)) |
| 04:43 | <Gekz> | CIA-1: Baisez tu! |
| 04:43 | <Phantasm> | amix: Which windows? |
| 04:44 | <amix> | win2k, xp |
| 04:44 | <amix> | i dont like vista |
| 04:44 | <Phantasm> | You should use 2003 or 2008 server as workstation. |
| 04:45 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: truebrain * r12505 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (7 files): [NoAI] -Documentation: still forgot some files ;) (minor stuff, capitals mostly) |
| 04:45 | <@Rubidium> | hmm... 2008 server... oh, lets add a big fat 3D graphics card to the requirements of our server software |
| 04:45 | <Celestar> | you should use a proper OS as a workstation. |
| 04:45 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | Gekz: "-ez" and "tu" don't really match |
| 04:45 | <amix> | Phantasm: i use morphos 99% of the time |
| 04:46 | <amix> | rest is macosx |
| 04:46 | <@Rubidium> | because maybe you want to play CounterStrike on your server |
| 04:46 | <Celestar> | Rubidium: yeah. possibly Quad SLI so that the system becomes stable. |
| 04:46 | <Phantasm> | Rubidium: There is also server core for 2008 server that has no GUI. |
| 04:46 | <Celestar> | there are also OSes that actually WORK as a server. |
| 04:46 | <Phantasm> | Only command line interface. |
| 04:46 | <Celestar> | for example linux |
| 04:46 | <Gekz> | Eddi|zuHause2: I fail grammar in frenfh |
| 04:46 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | i concur ;) |
| 04:46 | <Phantasm> | Not that I would use windows * server as server. |
| 04:47 | <@Rubidium> | Phantasm: and you think that the gui-less server gets used? Really...? |
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| 04:47 | <Gekz> | rofl |
| 04:47 | <Gekz> | I spelt french wrong |
| 04:47 | * | Gekz is on a rol |
| 04:47 | <Gekz> | ... |
| 04:47 | * | Gekz kills thyself |
| 04:47 | <Phantasm> | Rubidium: Prolly not.. But I don't think it needs much of a video card to work even with gui. All aero and such are disabled by default.. |
| 04:48 | <@Rubidium> | oh... the boss doesn't pay my: how to use the keyboard bootcamp course of 14 days with Microsoft, well, then add the big fat 3D card to the server |
| 04:48 | * | Celestar is running SLES10 on all servers |
| 04:48 | <Celestar> | and non-Windows ans non-linux OSes on firewalls |
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| 04:48 | <Phantasm> | But for windows workstation, 2008 server is like vista without all the bloat and such (you can even have it without windows media player).. And 2003 server is like xp. |
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| 04:50 | <Maedhros> | Gekz: "thyself" refers to the person you're talking to :p |
| 04:52 | <@Rubidium> | hmm... wonders how much 'no-GUI' is when one is being able to play solitaire |
| 04:53 | <Phantasm> | Rubidium: I don't think one can play solitaire on server core install. |
| 04:53 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | i'm sure there are aalib based X servers ;) |
| 04:53 | <@Rubidium> | Phantasm: http://geekswithblogs.net/lorint/archive/2007/10/30/116462.aspx <- rethink your statement please |
| 04:54 | <Phantasm> | Löl. |
| 04:54 | <Phantasm> | Light GUI then. ;P |
| 04:54 | <Celestar> | "(And that's including the 2 reboots, hardware detection, and everything!)" |
| 04:55 | <Celestar> | why the FUCK does an installation need 2 reboots?! |
| 04:55 | <Celestar> | ONE ok. but two? |
| 04:55 | <Maedhros> | "The thing is lean and mean, and can run very well in just half a gig of RAM" |
| 04:55 | <Celestar> | lol |
| 04:55 | * | Celestar wonders why they don't even pack a proper editor :S |
| 04:55 | <Phantasm> | Half a gig of ram and no swap and you can't start notepad on vista. ;P |
| 04:55 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | windows always needed two reboots |
| 04:56 | <Celestar> | Eddi|zuHause2: how many kernels does it have?! |
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| 04:56 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | one after it set up the installation system, and one after it configured the hardware |
| 04:57 | * | peter1138 ponders getting a Q6600 and clocking it at 3GHz |
| 04:57 | <Phantasm> | peter1138: Why only 3? |
| 04:57 | <Phantasm> | And if you want 60% the heat, get Q9450. |
| 04:57 | <@peter1138> | because that's the safest overclock, heh |
| 04:57 | <Phantasm> | Those are properly available now. |
| 04:57 | <Phantasm> | Safest... Any overclock is safe IF you test it is safe.. Nothing is safe before you test it. |
| 04:57 | <Phantasm> | Not even default clock. |
| 04:58 | <Phantasm> | Q9450 might not overclock that much though.. |
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| 05:02 | <@peter1138> | Q9450 costs considerably more than the Q6600 |
| 05:03 | <@peter1138> | and as you say, as it already has a 1333 FSB, it won't overclock so well |
| 05:03 | <Celestar> | I'd go Q9300 |
| 05:03 | <Phantasm> | FSB won't matter if you get suitable motherboard. |
| 05:04 | <@peter1138> | might just stick with the E8400 |
| 05:04 | <Phantasm> | Celestar: And half the L2? |
| 05:04 | <@peter1138> | One core is enough for ottd, so... ;) |
| 05:04 | <Celestar> | Phantasm: and? |
| 05:04 | <Celestar> | Phantasm: it's faster than the Q6600 |
| 05:05 | <@peter1138> | Q6600 @ 3GHz is fast ;) |
| 05:05 | <Phantasm> | Celestar: I'm actually not sure about that. |
| 05:05 | * | Celestar doesn't like overclocking |
| 05:05 | <Celestar> | Phantasm: in every review it is |
| 05:05 | <@peter1138> | hence why i will probably stick to the E8400 |
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| 05:07 | <Phantasm> | Does Q9300 OC well? |
| 05:07 | <Phantasm> | If not, then perhaps Q6600 is best cheap one for OC.. But otherwise Q9* are better quads as they only produce about 60% the heat. |
| 05:08 | <Celestar> | Phantasm: and are faster clock-for-clock. not much, but a little |
| 05:08 | <Celestar> | and the Q9300 seems to go 3.2-3.4 on air ... |
| 05:08 | <Phantasm> | Nothing special then. |
| 05:09 | <Phantasm> | About same for Q9450... Effectively not worth the effort. |
| 05:09 | <@peter1138> | 2.5 -> 3.4 is quite a lot |
| 05:09 | <amix> | so |
| 05:10 | <amix> | you know where the symbian build is? |
| 05:10 | <amix> | i would love to be a betatester |
| 05:10 | <@peter1138> | Hmm, E8400, £124.99, Q6600, £125 |
| 05:10 | <Celestar> | lol |
| 05:10 | <Phantasm> | I won't bother trying to OC Q9450.. Even if it may go to 3-3.4 GHz, the OC is so small it is not worth the more expensive mobo etc and all the effort. |
| 05:10 | <amix> | ive been betatester for wirelessirc, delfmpeg etc |
| 05:11 | <Phantasm> | For OC to be worth trying, it would take about 30% guaranteed OC without voltage raise. |
| 05:12 | <Phantasm> | Some OC tests for Q9450 have used quite a lot of extra voltage to achieve the OC and as such it easily gets out of the quiet comp.. |
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| 05:13 | <Phantasm> | PSU starts to make too much noise when the CPU eats too much power (along with 3D card and all the other stuff). |
| 05:13 | <Celestar> | Phantasm: http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/core2quad-q9300_6.html#sect0 |
| 05:13 | <Celestar> | Phantasm: page 4 and 5 are interesting as well (vs 6600 and vs 8500) |
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| 05:15 | <@peter1138> | Phantasm: that's the point, the Q6600 does not need a more expensive board to overclock, as even the cheap ones do an FSB faster than the CPU |
| 05:16 | * | peter1138 underclocks his Athlon XP 2000+ to 1250MHz atm |
| 05:16 | <Phantasm> | Yep, that is why I don't bother trying to OC Q9450.. And I ordered it because of the less heat than Q6600. |
| 05:17 | * | Celestar doesn't OC |
| 05:17 | <Phantasm> | My current one is 2.5 GHz opteron 165 (1.8 GHz normally). |
| 05:19 | <Phantasm> | Celestar: The OCs done there make the power consumption go havoc. |
| 05:19 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | who remembers the days when 25MHz was a high end PC, and they had "turbo" buttons to downclock them? |
| 05:20 | <Celestar> | Eddi|zuHause2: I remember my first C64 .... |
| 05:20 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: truebrain * r12506 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/Doxyfile: |
| 05:20 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Add: added Doxyfile in src/ai/api to generate the AIDocs (as on http://devs.openttd.org/~noai/aidocs/ ) |
| 05:20 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: REQUIRES Doxygen >= 1.5.4, or documentation will be a mess |
| 05:20 | <Celestar> | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commodore_64 <= this one |
| 05:21 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | the glorious days of DOSShell! |
| 05:21 | <Phantasm> | I remember my first Aquarius. |
| 05:21 | <Phantasm> | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mattel_Aquarius |
| 05:21 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | which was just a lousy attempt to beat the dominant Norton Commander |
| 05:22 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | and nobody heard of "browser wars" yet |
| 05:22 | <Phantasm> | I had a game book for it.. The book had source codes of games I could type in the machine to play.. And then record them to audi o casettes. |
| 05:25 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: truebrain * r12507 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (Doxyfile ai_object.cpp ai_object.hpp): [NoAI] -Fix: enable Doxyfile warning about missing params and fix 3 missing params in AIObject |
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| 05:27 | <@peter1138> | Phantasm: basic listings were common in those days... |
| 05:27 | <Celestar> | greato. |
| 05:27 | <Celestar> | FFVII hangs in the final battle |
| 05:28 | <Gekz> | lol |
| 05:28 | <Gekz> | win |
| 05:28 | <Celestar> | how .. :P |
| 05:28 | <Gekz> | the situation lets you be free |
| 05:28 | <Gekz> | you realise that the game owned you up until this point |
| 05:28 | <Gekz> | you may leave now |
| 05:28 | <Celestar> | I will |
| 05:28 | * | Celestar gets himself lunch |
| 05:28 | <Gekz> | lol |
| 05:32 | <ln> | Gekz: your lol quota for today has been exceeded. |
| 05:32 | <Celestar> | lol |
| 05:33 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: truebrain * r12508 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (ai_engine.hpp ai_tile.hpp): [NoAI] -Fix: @note that refer to @return should come after @return, not before @param |
| 05:33 | <@peter1138> | bloody noai spam ;p |
| 05:33 | <Celestar> | (= |
| 05:34 | <Gekz> | ln: lololooloololooloolol |
| 05:34 | <Gekz> | ça va? |
| 05:34 | <ln> | English only. |
| 05:35 | <Celestar> | cool. |
| 05:35 | <Celestar> | The russians have built the first prototype of a mobile nuclear power plant |
| 05:35 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | does it fit in a pocket yet? |
| 05:36 | <Celestar> | Eddi|zuHause2: no, it's a naval vehicle. |
| 05:36 | <Celestar> | about the size of a large ferry |
| 05:36 | <Celestar> | enough to supply a town of 200.000 people |
| 05:36 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | great... as if illegal disposal of waste is not a big enough problem already |
| 05:37 | * | Celestar fails to see the connection |
| 05:37 | <Gekz> | lol |
| 05:37 | <Gekz> | russian + nuclear waste + waterways unguarded = glowing penis syndrome |
| 05:37 | <Celestar> | rofl |
| 05:38 | <Phantasm> | Indeed... |
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| 05:38 | <Gekz> | "IT TINGLES MOMMY!" "Don't touch it." |
| 05:38 | <edeca> | Hrm, does the UK train renewal set not work with current openttd? It says that the climate bit is incorrect no matter what I set it to :( |
| 05:38 | <Celestar> | well, apparently the idea seems as China, Namibia and South Korea already showed interest in purchasing some. |
| 05:39 | <Celestar> | s/seems/sells |
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| 05:40 | <Celestar> | the mobile NPP costs apparently only 300 million EUR |
| 05:40 | <Phantasm> | As if Russia wasn't bad enough.. Now they are giving it away to China etc... |
| 05:41 | <Gekz> | Lets give idiots da bomb so they may spam |
| 05:42 | <Gekz> | All your base are belong to us |
| 05:42 | <Celestar> | Phantasm: giving what away exactly? |
| 05:42 | <Celestar> | it's not that the Chinese dunno how to build a NPP |
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| 05:45 | <Phantasm> | Yea, but they haven't done it. |
| 05:45 | <Celestar> | er? |
| 05:45 | <Gekz> | the chinese are busy breeding like chinese people. |
| 05:45 | <Gekz> | and making smog clouds. |
| 05:45 | <Phantasm> | It is so much easier to dump radioactive stuff from mobile npp than from one on land. |
| 05:45 | <Gekz> | not really |
| 05:45 | <Phantasm> | A naval vessel + big enough npp -> they can effectively load any radioactive material there and just drop it all they care. |
| 05:46 | <Gekz> | "Alright kids, powers out until we empty this steam chubby!" |
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| 05:46 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | Phantasm: there are international institutions that watch very closely which bit of radioactive material goes where |
| 05:46 | <Celestar> | .oO(people have VERY weird ideas about nuclear power) |
| 05:46 | <Gekz> | too bad china says go away |
| 05:46 | <Phantasm> | Eddi|zuHause2: Yes, and how do they plan on doing that on every naval vessel carrying npp? |
| 05:47 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | "every"? |
| 05:47 | <Celestar> | Phantasm: do you know how many nuclear powered vessels we have today? |
| 05:47 | <Phantasm> | Celestar: As long as they are small enough there isn't much of a problem. |
| 05:47 | <Celestar> | Russia has a fleet of like 100 nuclear ice-breakers alone ... |
| 05:47 | <Celestar> | Phantasm: I don't see size being an issue |
| 05:47 | <Phantasm> | But capably of supplying a town of 200k people gives some size. |
| 05:47 | <Phantasm> | The bigger it is the easier it is to hide some extra stuff around. |
| 05:48 | <edeca> | Most people don't realise that half of the power plant at Chernobyl was active until way into the 1990s :) |
| 05:48 | <Gekz> | I dont like nuclear anything |
| 05:48 | <Gekz> | >_> |
| 05:48 | <Celestar> | Phantasm: yes, that's 60MW. that's 1/4th of what the Nimitz-Class has. |
| 05:48 | <edeca> | Gekz: Hope you never get cancer then.. |
| 05:48 | <Gekz> | edeca: so do I |
| 05:48 | <Gekz> | clearly. |
| 05:48 | <edeca> | Gekz: Heh, well it's all radiation :) |
| 05:48 | <Celestar> | cancer has been around since the beginning of life ... it's nothing to do with nuclear power plants. |
| 05:48 | <Gekz> | too bad its a concentrated dose of carbonfuck |
| 05:49 | <edeca> | Celestar: I wasn't suggesting that |
| 05:49 | <Celestar> | edeca: good ;) |
| 05:49 | <edeca> | Celestar: But modern treatments rely on blatting your cells with radiation :P |
| 05:49 | <Celestar> | hehe |
| 05:49 | <edeca> | Celestar: As do some forms of scans where they inject you with radioactive materials :) |
| 05:49 | <Celestar> | edeca: there are even scans where they use antimatter |
| 05:49 | <Gekz> | lol |
| 05:49 | <Celestar> | called "PET" |
| 05:50 | <edeca> | Hahaha |
| 05:50 | <Gekz> | no they dont |
| 05:50 | <Celestar> | Gekz: YES they do |
| 05:50 | <Gekz> | NO |
| 05:50 | <Gekz> | NO THEY DO NOT |
| 05:50 | * | Celestar suggests that you have nfi |
| 05:50 | * | Gekz suggests you want to have nfi |
| 05:50 | <Celestar> | Gekz: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Positron_emission_tomography <= for the beginners |
| 05:51 | <Gekz> | I'M SORRY, I'M NOT GAY |
| 05:51 | <edeca> | I still stand by my previous point. So many people say "radiation is bad, look at Chernobyl!" then argue like schoolgirls when you tell them it was generating power until 2000 |
| 05:51 | <Gekz> | lol, caps. |
| 05:51 | <edeca> | s/radiation/nuklar powar/ |
| 05:51 | <Celestar> | what does being gay having to do with anti-matter? |
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| 05:52 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: rubidium * r12509 /branches/noai/ (8 files in 3 dirs): [NoAI] -Fix: add some missing return/parameter documentation; probably not the last, but Doxygen couldn't find these. |
| 05:52 | <edeca> | Celestar: Ah, that's the form of scanning I was referring to |
| 05:52 | <edeca> | Celestar: Now I know the name, ta! |
| 05:52 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | in what kind of physics a positron is antimatter? |
| 05:52 | <Celestar> | edeca: in every |
| 05:52 | <Celestar> | Eddi|zuHause2: in the Standard Model?! |
| 05:52 | <edeca> | I imagined antimatter as some sort of science fiction stuff, but meh :) |
| 05:53 | <Celestar> | a Positron is an anti-electron. |
| 05:53 | <edeca> | I want to edit that picture so it says "COMPUTAR" below the terminal.. mwuhaha |
| 05:53 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | hm, probably i mixed up stuff |
| 05:54 | <Celestar> | same mass, same spin, same group, same generation, opposite charge => anti-particle |
| 05:55 | * | Celestar wonders why Gekz is so quiet all of a sudden :P |
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| 05:55 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | yeah, it's the dangerous kind of half-knowledge about quantum mechanics ;) |
| 05:56 | <Celestar> | Eddi|zuHause2: lol yeah. the half that goes "boom" or the half that goes "bam!" ? |
| 05:56 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | yes. |
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| 06:00 | <edeca> | Does anybody here know why the uk train renewal set doesn't work with my current openttd though (openttd + yapp from buildottd). I mean, that's got to be more important than anti-matter ;) |
| 06:01 | <Celestar> | edeca: does it work with vanilla openttd? |
| 06:02 | <edeca> | Good question, let's try |
| 06:02 | <Maedhros> | edeca: which climate are you trying to use ukrs in? |
| 06:03 | <edeca> | Sub tropical or temperate |
| 06:03 | <edeca> | In the newgrf window it says that the climate bit is wrong when set to 1 2 or 3 |
| 06:03 | <Celestar> | set it to 0? ;) |
| 06:04 | <@Rubidium> | so you're in subtropical and it (UKRS) needs to have temperate |
| 06:04 | <edeca> | Heh, that's not an option either. Darn, it works in vanilla. Must be broken buildottd or yapp |
| 06:04 | <edeca> | Rubidium: Sorry, I meant arctic |
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| 06:05 | <edeca> | OK, it works now.. I must have been smoking something earlier :| |
| 06:06 | <edeca> | Shame that I'd just started breaking even in my old game without it. |
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| 06:06 | <Phantasm> | Aww, Q9450 has half the L1 cache per core than Opteron 165. :/ |
| 06:06 | <edeca> | I might have to compile on Windows myself though, too many patches I miss :( |
| 06:10 | <@peter1138> | Phantasm: it has more cores then ;) |
| 06:11 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | so? you get 2% more cache misses then... |
| 06:12 | <Phantasm> | Opteron has 64+64 kB L1 data+inst. And Q9450 has 32+32 kB L1 data+inst. |
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| 06:17 | <Gekz> | and they both suck |
| 06:17 | <Gekz> | get over it |
| 06:17 | <@peter1138> | 386 must win, as it has no cache misses... |
| 06:19 | <Celestar> | when was L1 cache first introduced? |
| 06:28 | <@peter1138> | For intel, it was the 486 |
| 06:29 | <edeca> | 1989 in the 486 |
| 06:29 | <edeca> | And 1995 for L2 cache by the looks of it |
| 06:29 | <edeca> | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86 |
| 06:29 | <Celestar> | P-1 right? |
| 06:29 | <@peter1138> | hehe, 800 nm technology :D |
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| 06:30 | <@peter1138> | 8KB of L1 cache. |
| 06:30 | <Gekz> | alright |
| 06:31 | <Gekz> | does anyone here speak french |
| 06:31 | <Gekz> | because I need help lol |
| 06:31 | <Gekz> | ln: shhh |
| 06:31 | <Celestar> | only if I'm forced to :P |
| 06:31 | <Gekz> | i just need to know if this is valid |
| 06:31 | <Gekz> | "Ma mere nom <name>." |
| 06:33 | <Gekz> | NO? |
| 06:34 | <Gekz> | OK |
| 06:34 | <Celestar> | MA mere <name> I'd say |
| 06:34 | <Celestar> | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Byte_magazine_September_1989_cover.png <= lol :) |
| 06:35 | <edeca> | What's even more scary is that we'll be laughing at the consideration of a processor with only 4 cores and only 128K L1 cache in 20 years ;) |
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| 06:38 | <Celestar> | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Itanium_Sales_Forecasts_edit.png <= LOL |
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| 06:38 | <Celestar> | this is hilarious |
| 06:39 | <edeca> | Itawhat? :) |
| 06:39 | <Celestar> | well done Intel (= |
| 06:39 | <Celestar> | Itanic |
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| 06:39 | <edeca> | Heh |
| 06:41 | <Gekz> | lol fail |
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| 06:48 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | Celestar: does that picture imply that they released it 4 years too late? |
| 06:48 | <Celestar> | Eddi|zuHause2: appears so. Possibly ;) |
| 06:49 | <Celestar> | 4 years late and a failure ... I think someone found himself a new job .... |
| 06:55 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: truebrain * r12510 /branches/noai/ (12 files in 5 dirs): [NoAI] -Add: added AIError, which allows you to catch errors triggered by commands (Morloth) |
| 06:56 | <Celestar> | hmpf |
| 06:57 | <edeca> | 4 years late and a failure, would make a perfect policitian |
| 06:57 | <edeca> | Even better if I could spell |
| 06:58 | <Celestar> | Rubidium: peter1138: so the recommended procedure for newgrf_ports is re-implementation, do I read correctly? |
| 07:00 | <edeca> | What is the chance of patches like yapp or the land cloning tool making it into trunk eventually? I'm sure it must get asked lots but they are the only two reasons I don't play trunk at the moment |
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| 07:02 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | yapp is very likely to get into trunk, if by "land cloning" you mean "copy paste", that is doubtful to be included |
| 07:02 | <edeca> | Cool, how come? |
| 07:03 | <edeca> | I'm glad about yapp, that's one of my biggest annoyances :) |
| 07:03 | <edeca> | copy paste because of multiplayer? |
| 07:06 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Top500.procfamily.png <- this is a much more interesting pictures |
| 07:06 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | -s |
| 07:08 | <@peter1138> | stupid dates |
| 07:08 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | yes they are |
| 07:09 | <@peter1138> | Where's ARM on that? |
| 07:09 | <@peter1138> | or rather |
| 07:09 | <@peter1138> | what is the "top 500"? |
| 07:10 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | the top 500 supercomputers? |
| 07:10 | <@peter1138> | ahh |
| 07:10 | <@peter1138> | ok |
| 07:13 | <Phantasm> | Copy/paste could be made such that for multiplayer, the host could enable/disable it.. |
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| 07:15 | <edeca> | Yes, hence me wondering why it couldn't be in trunk |
| 07:15 | <edeca> | Unless it is simply too difficult to keep up to date with map changes |
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