| --- | Log | opened Sat Mar 29 00:00:05 2008 |
| 00:00 | <Dr_Jekyll> | with cygwin i can build such version? if yes i will have a look for it... |
| 00:00 | <DaleStan> | Yes. |
| 00:01 | <Dr_Jekyll> | ok...download iss running...google will be slowing down the next few hours, while i'm searching how to do what i want to do ;) |
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| 00:21 | <Dr_Jekyll> | hm...seems to work until cygwin is installed... |
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| 00:39 | <Dr_Jekyll> | i've overwritten the svn://... link in bottd with file:///d:/path to the source of chrisin...and it seems to do anything... |
| 00:42 | <Dr_Jekyll> | ...it's still running...pls don't tell me that this can't work |
| 01:32 | <DaleStan> | You don't use BOTTD. You use ./configure && make . |
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| 02:34 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | BOTTD already sets up a mingw build system |
| 02:34 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | you just can reuse that |
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| 03:24 | <@peter1138> | http://s91.photobucket.com/albums/k292/colinbradish/?action=view¤t=SpacePainting.flv |
| 03:29 | <Forked> | woha |
| 03:29 | <Forked> | thats pretty cool :) |
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| 03:49 | <Wolf01> | hello |
| 03:49 | <mrfrenzy> | morning |
| 04:15 | -!- | Osai^zZz`off is now known as Osai |
| 04:16 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | krass... |
| 04:16 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | (sorry, i don't know a suitible translation of that word) |
| 04:17 | <mrfrenzy> | hehe |
| 04:18 | <Gekz> | Eddi|zuHause2: crass perhaps? |
| 04:19 | <Gekz> | blatent |
| 04:19 | <Gekz> | gross |
| 04:19 | <Gekz> | etc |
| 04:19 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | http://dict.leo.org/?search=krass |
| 04:20 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | does not correctly reflect the meaning |
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| 06:12 | <Wolf01> | Is possible to have a flat bed wagon to carry steel with the ECS vectors? I'm trying with UKRS and/or cargoset, but I can't find a suitable wagon to carry steel (only goods wagons and mineral wagons refittable to steel)... and flat bed wagons can carry tourists -_-''' |
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| 06:17 | -!- | dih is now known as anhedral |
| 06:24 | <Patrick`> | is this some sort of system that says "this cargo can go in a hopper, this cargo can go in a truck" so grain/coal and livestock/goods take the same wagon type (for example) ? |
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| 06:28 | <Wolf01> | It might be interesting... you provide only the wagons, and the cargo system decides what each wagon type can carry |
| 06:32 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | Patrick`: technically, there is a system that says "this cargo is bulk cargo", and "this wagon can carry all bulk cargos" |
| 06:33 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | the question is, is this implemented correctly in all grfs? |
| 06:33 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | Wolf01: you can try a cargo translation table like the one in the DBSetXL ECS extension |
| 06:34 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | it's a bitmask that says for each wagon which cargo it can carry |
| 06:35 | <Wolf01> | can the UKRS plugin do that? |
| 06:35 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | Wolf01: most likely, the UKRS wagons are designed to use the PBI cargos, not the ECS cargos |
| 06:35 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | the structure of the dbxl_ecs.grf is not hard to understand |
| 06:36 | <@peter1138> | ECS is... dodgy |
| 06:36 | <Wolf01> | uhm, so I must use the DBset for ECS |
| 06:36 | <@peter1138> | tourists are passengers & express classes |
| 06:36 | <@peter1138> | express is for freight |
| 06:36 | <@peter1138> | so... |
| 06:36 | <Gekz> | tourists are freight |
| 06:36 | <Gekz> | cattle class |
| 06:36 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | yes, like cattle |
| 06:36 | <Gekz> | get in your boxes jews! |
| 06:37 | <Gekz> | wait |
| 06:37 | <Gekz> | that was too neo-nazi. |
| 06:37 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | way beyond the edge... |
| 06:37 | <ln> | way too |
| 06:37 | <Gekz> | lol |
| 06:37 | <Gekz> | I live for reactions. |
| 06:43 | <Wolf01> | seem that yesterday was Rubidium's patch galore day |
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| 06:51 | <Wolf01> | uh, another thing i can't change is the snowline height... it's always at sea level o_O |
| 06:53 | <Wolf01> | ah that's variable |
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| 07:03 | <LordAzamath[birthday]> | hello |
| 07:05 | <Osai> | its a LA |
| 07:05 | <LordAzamath[birthday]> | yes it is |
| 07:06 | <LordAzamath[birthday]> | and it has birthday today |
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| 07:18 | -!- | anhedral is now known as dih |
| 07:26 | <Mirrakor> | This may sound like a stupid question, but I'm new to this game, can my transport system let a city grow? |
| 07:28 | <Rubidium> | yes |
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| 07:29 | <Alberth> | I like to believe so, but I have never checked it in the code |
| 07:35 | <planetmaker> | ^^ I'm sure, Rubidiium has done so :D |
| 07:35 | <planetmaker> | happy birthday, LA :) |
| 07:36 | <Alberth> | You're too late already, he must be busy unpacking presents |
| 07:38 | <planetmaker> | probably :P |
| 07:38 | <Mirrakor> | Rubidium: any special things to know about that? |
| 07:39 | <planetmaker> | Mirrakor: mostly a passenger (=PAX) transport will have a city grow |
| 07:39 | <planetmaker> | It doesn't matter how far. |
| 07:39 | <planetmaker> | Delivery of goods helps, too, but not as much as passengers |
| 07:39 | <planetmaker> | Cities in desert need water, or nothing will happen |
| 07:39 | <planetmaker> | Cities in snow need food or nothing will happen |
| 07:40 | <planetmaker> | I'm not sure, but probably food in tropical climate is available and will help, too |
| 07:40 | <planetmaker> | in arctic food helps, too |
| 07:40 | <planetmaker> | Don't ask me about toyland, though :P |
| 07:41 | <Mirrakor> | toyland's cool - btw. is there a way to reduce the volume of the sound? |
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| 07:41 | <planetmaker> | You've got in the icon bar an icon with two notes on it. Click it and adjust :) |
| 07:42 | <planetmaker> | it's on the very right side of it |
| 07:42 | <Patrick`> | has anyone done actual beta-or-better work on more complex industries? |
| 07:42 | <Mirrakor> | oh, of course - I just looked for it in the startup dialog |
| 07:42 | <Patrick`> | the current layout is a bit ... simple |
| 07:43 | <planetmaker> | Patrick`: what's "more complex"? Do you know the ECS grf package? |
| 07:46 | <planetmaker> | Mirrakor: it happened to be bothered by that a long time, too - and completely turned off sound of this comp. Only found out recently :) |
| 07:46 | <planetmaker> | it=I |
| 07:47 | <Patrick`> | planetmaker: i do now, ty |
| 07:48 | <planetmaker> | Patrick`: hm, okay. If that isn't complex enough, there's nothing more complex IIRC |
| 07:48 | <planetmaker> | But being beta doesn't make it not working. Actually it works quite well. |
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| 07:49 | <Patrick`> | looks cool |
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| 07:50 | <planetmaker> | I prefer to use not all modules of ECS at one time though. It makes the map too crowded for my taste. |
| 07:50 | <planetmaker> | And one has to pay attention to use a proper train set which comes with an ECS extension like the DB set, the NARS or -IIRC - the UKRS. |
| 07:51 | <Mirrakor> | in the tutorial there seems to be many different kinds of signals.. but I only see one in the game..? |
| 07:51 | <planetmaker> | (or rather install both, trainset and its ECS extension set) |
| 07:51 | <Alberth> | Mirrakor: Select signal, hold CTL, click at existing signal |
| 07:52 | <@peter1138> | or enable signal gui |
| 07:52 | <planetmaker> | Mirrakor: you may look up pre-signals. |
| 07:52 | <@peter1138> | speaking of which |
| 07:52 | <planetmaker> | bbl |
| 07:52 | <Mirrakor> | CTL=CTRL? |
| 07:52 | <Alberth> | yes |
| 07:53 | <Mirrakor> | would you place signals along the whole way or just before a crossing? |
| 07:53 | <Alberth> | peter1138: Interesting, how does one do that? |
| 07:53 | <Patrick`> | does ECS introduce a lot of ugly-looking new industries or does it recycle the original sprites? |
| 07:54 | <@peter1138> | Patrick`: ugly new |
| 07:54 | <Patrick`> | meh., |
| 07:54 | <@peter1138> | (PBI introduces beautiful new) |
| 07:54 | <Alberth> | Mirrakor: Between blocks :) there are a lot of users that place signals every n tiles (4 or so). OpenTTD makes that also quite easy |
| 07:54 | <Patrick`> | but PBI's in alpha, I'll guess |
| 07:54 | <@peter1138> | (some's recycled) |
| 07:54 | <@peter1138> | PBI's fully working |
| 07:55 | <Alberth> | Mirrakor: I tend to prefer 'real' blocks of 10-20 tiles |
| 07:55 | <Mirrakor> | Alberth: and how do I enable the signal GUI? |
| 07:56 | <@peter1138> | it's hidden under a patch setting somewhere |
| 07:56 | <@peter1138> | construction, probably |
| 07:57 | <Patrick`> | mmm, looks good |
| 07:57 | <@peter1138> | oh, and not in 0.5.3 or before |
| 07:58 | <Mirrakor> | ah and in the signal GUI I can change the "block size" ? |
| 07:58 | <Patrick`> | yes. |
| 08:01 | <Alberth> | (about signal GUI): This feature is in the MiniIN only. (http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Signal_GUI) |
| 08:02 | <Rubidium> | Alberth: it's a good case of wiki not-being up-to-date |
| 08:02 | <Mirrakor> | oh boy, this is far more complexe than I thought :D |
| 08:02 | <Alberth> | We intend to keep you busy for a long time :) |
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| 08:03 | <Mirrakor> | I see, I see - but some kind of ingame tutorial would be a nice idea :D |
| 08:04 | <@peter1138> | Not happening, heh |
| 08:04 | <Mirrakor> | uh, a track design question :D atm I've got some sort of L track (I tried to do two long rails), but it be more efficient it I instead would make a \ form? |
| 08:05 | <Alberth> | Everything is possible if you submit a patch, isn't it? :) |
| 08:06 | <Wolf01> | mmh idea: a tool to uniform the land but wich cuts the terrain below, or above a certain level (if below it fills the hole), but not the two at the same time like the level land tool |
| 08:07 | <Mirrakor> | http://img-up.net/?up=Openttd0x0i9dZq.jpg |
| 08:07 | <Alberth> | Rubidium: Could you plz tell me how to enable the signal GUI? I still use the CTL key, and it's kind of a hassle |
| 08:08 | <Mirrakor> | ^^ it's a picture, it seems we(or I) would have to consider the terrain height difference too |
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| 08:10 | <aleex> | what is PBI? |
| 08:10 | <Alberth> | Mirrakor: In general, we prefer .png files for screen-shots (OpenTTD can do this). Also I'd simply buy 2 depots, one for each station, and have a more straight line. |
| 08:10 | <yorick> | Pikkas Basic Industries? |
| 08:10 | <aleex> | that means what? |
| 08:11 | <yorick> | a newindustries grf |
| 08:11 | <aleex> | ah ;) |
| 08:11 | <Mirrakor> | Alberth: indeed, I prefer them too, but it seems some people (mostly microsoft victims) have troubles seeing those pictures ;) |
| 08:11 | <Alberth> | Mirrakor: and a longer station may be useful too :) |
| 08:12 | <Mirrakor> | Alberth: what's a longer station used for? |
| 08:12 | <Mirrakor> | it can unloade at once? |
| 08:13 | <@peter1138> | you can only fit a very short train there |
| 08:13 | <Alberth> | longer trains of course |
| 08:13 | <Mirrakor> | but my 3 wagon train doesn't seem to have a problem with that station.. except it seems it loads/unloads rather slow |
| 08:14 | <@peter1138> | exactly |
| 08:14 | <Mirrakor> | ok, good to know :) |
| 08:14 | <Mirrakor> | Can I expand those stations or do I've to remove them and place a new one? |
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| 08:15 | <Alberth> | If you replace quickly enough, the new station keeps the old name |
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| 08:15 | <Mirrakor> | to I've to remove it and quickly build a new one at the same place? |
| 08:16 | <@peter1138> | no |
| 08:16 | <@peter1138> | you can expand then |
| 08:16 | <@peter1138> | them |
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| 08:18 | <Gekz> | http://bash.org/?847733 |
| 08:18 | <Gekz> | HA |
| 08:23 | <Alberth> | lol |
| 08:24 | <Mirrakor> | uff.. I should have build a busstop first.. D |
| 08:24 | <Mirrakor> | :D |
| 08:26 | <Mirrakor> | the tutorial recommend sending the train into the train depo after a completed task - why? |
| 08:29 | <planetmaker> | Mirrakor: probably to service it and thus get up its reliability back up to its maximum. |
| 08:30 | <planetmaker> | The default is to play with break downs and an unserviced train is bound to breakdown very often |
| 08:35 | <Mirrakor> | a train always waits 'till he's fully loaded? |
| 08:37 | <planetmaker> | Mirrakor: if you set the orders to "load" then it will. Otherwise it will pick up as much as there is or until it's full - whatever comes earlier |
| 08:37 | <Mirrakor> | good to know, thanks :) |
| 08:38 | <Mirrakor> | and now it says there's mail to pick up.. but I'm not sure where it would be delivered - to the next city? |
| 08:38 | <planetmaker> | Normally it's a good choice to use the "load" order |
| 08:38 | <planetmaker> | Mirrakor: yes. You can click on a station and it will tell you what it accepts |
| 08:38 | <Mirrakor> | so accept stands for both in and out? |
| 08:38 | <planetmaker> | it will even tell you while placing. |
| 08:38 | <planetmaker> | Mirrakor: accepts stands for exactly that: accepts. |
| 08:39 | <planetmaker> | What a station provides isn't written anywherre - so far |
| 08:39 | <Mirrakor> | so if I've got a station where it says "accept: mail", but my other two stations doesn't accept mails it would make no sense loading them in the train? |
| 08:39 | <planetmaker> | But a town produces passengers and mail and the primary industries produce their product |
| 08:40 | <planetmaker> | a station which accepts mail also provides. The same for passengers |
| 08:40 | <planetmaker> | Different for all cargo |
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| 08:41 | <planetmaker> | If you've got only one station which accepts mail, there's no point for a mail train: you cannot deliver it anywhere |
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| 08:42 | <Mirrakor> | answers my question perfectly :) |
| 08:42 | <Mirrakor> | May I ask you a signal question? |
| 08:44 | <Alberth> | you can always try |
| 08:45 | <Mirrakor> | http://img-up.net/?up=Openttd1bytwM0x.png I've read the whole signal wiki entry - but I'm still unsure which signals I'd place here |
| 08:45 | <Mirrakor> | I think I should place a signal in front of the train stations and before the crossing |
| 08:47 | <Alberth> | what are you trying to achieve? |
| 08:47 | <Mirrakor> | two trains on the same network - not crashing - minimal delay :D |
| 08:48 | <Mirrakor> | One should transport passanger from top to bottom, and the other one should transport coal from top to the left |
| 08:48 | <Alberth> | I understood that :) train 1 from bottom-left to top-left, but the other one? |
| 08:49 | <Mirrakor> | did I answer your question? |
| 08:49 | <Alberth> | so the power station is the common one |
| 08:49 | <Mirrakor> | right |
| 08:49 | <Mirrakor> | wait, np |
| 08:49 | <Mirrakor> | no |
| 08:50 | <Mirrakor> | the mine accepts passanger - this should be the common one |
| 08:51 | <Alberth> | so you need a signal just below the crossing (where the 1st coal wagon is), and one at the right of the crossing |
| 08:51 | <Alberth> | in both directions of course |
| 08:51 | <planetmaker> | full ack |
| 08:51 | <Mirrakor> | so two two-way-signals? |
| 08:52 | <planetmaker> | yes |
| 08:52 | <Mirrakor> | the bottom-right or the upper right? |
| 08:52 | <Alberth> | trains need to move through the signal in both directions |
| 08:53 | <Alberth> | towards the town |
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| 08:53 | <planetmaker> | But you might rather transport passengers between two towns than from a town to the steel mill |
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| 08:54 | <Alberth> | (full passenger trains in both directions then => more money coming in) |
| 08:55 | <Mirrakor> | ok, so it doesn't make sense to set "load" and "unload", when it's unlikely that the train gets full |
| 08:55 | <Alberth> | also, I'd probably have 2 platforms at the steel mill, and seperate lines |
| 08:55 | <Mirrakor> | I can still expand it?! |
| 08:56 | <Mirrakor> | But then I'd need two other combo signals, right? |
| 08:56 | <Alberth> | 'unload' just prevents loading, 'loading' may take a lot of time of inflow of cargo/passengers is low |
| 08:57 | <Alberth> | plz explain the combo signals, you lost me there |
| 08:57 | <Mirrakor> | it's in the wiki :D |
| 08:57 | <Mirrakor> | I think they're the two-way signals |
| 08:57 | <planetmaker> | Mirrakor: for a two track stations entry and exit signals make sense |
| 08:57 | <Alberth> | i'd have *completely* seperate lines |
| 08:58 | <Mirrakor> | ops, another time :D |
| 08:58 | <planetmaker> | Alberth: I wouldn't. I'd have an incoming and one outgoing |
| 08:58 | <planetmaker> | which shares for both services |
| 08:58 | <Alberth> | different people, different preferences :) |
| 08:58 | <planetmaker> | But i might seperate coal and steel by means of a waypoint immediately prior to the station |
| 08:59 | * | planetmaker is spoilt in this respect by the coop guys :) |
| 08:59 | <Mirrakor> | so there's a difference between combo signals and exit signals.. |
| 08:59 | <Alberth> | over engineering :P |
| 08:59 | <planetmaker> | Mirrakor: a combo signal will only relay the combined state of all following exit signals |
| 09:00 | <planetmaker> | kind of (state exit #1) or (state exit #2) or (state exit #3) or... |
| 09:00 | <planetmaker> | it will ignore normal signals which follow |
| 09:01 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | www.informatik.uni-halle.de/~krause/Ravenswald%20Transport,%2028.%20Sep%201927.png <- how i (used to) use signals |
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| 09:01 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | hm... anyone else gets timeout? |
| 09:02 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | bad... |
| 09:03 | <Mirrakor> | i can't reach it too |
| 09:03 | <planetmaker> | http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Railway_stations --> terminus for simple cases |
| 09:03 | <planetmaker> | Eddi|zuHause2: yes, me |
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| 09:05 | <Alberth> | Mirrakor: You have a pre-signal and exit-signal normally. Combo-signal is when you want to split such a block in more parts |
| 09:10 | <Mirrakor> | lol, now I've must made a mistake.. both trains wait at the crossing with a red light |
| 09:12 | <planetmaker> | Mirrakor: that happens, if they want to go to where the other train is waiting |
| 09:12 | <planetmaker> | And exactly that's the reason why I always use one track per direction - at least :) |
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| 09:15 | <planetmaker> | btw: a comprehensive city grow guide: http://www.openttdcoop.org/wiki/City_grow_guide |
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| 09:22 | <Mirrakor> | now I totaly screwed up :D |
| 09:23 | <ln> | how old is she? |
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| 09:28 | <Patrick`> | Mirrakor: "ignore signals" button is awesome |
| 09:30 | <Patrick`> | and has cost me a lot of money |
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| 09:54 | <Diadem> | Hello people :) Can I ask a question? |
| 09:54 | <Diadem> | I recently started playing this game again after two years. I remember back then we used to have PBS. What happened to it? |
| 09:55 | <Joop> | it is no longer in the game because it is/was too buggy... |
| 09:57 | <Mirrakor> | are the 6 different bus stations equal to each other? |
| 09:57 | <Diadem> | Ah |
| 09:57 | <Diadem> | Hmm, that's a real shame. It was a great feature |
| 09:57 | <Diadem> | Ah well, we'll have to do without :) |
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| 09:58 | <Joop> | mirrakor, they are all for passengers... Only the last 2 are drive through, so they will drive on after stopping... |
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| 10:06 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | Diadem: there is a new PBS implementation called YAPP |
| 10:07 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | it is just not in trunk yet |
| 10:07 | <Diadem> | Yeah I read about that. Seems really in its development stage though? With many bugs etc |
| 10:08 | <@peter1138> | Not that many |
| 10:10 | <Diadem> | Hmm, might look into it then. |
| 10:10 | <Diadem> | Later, for now i'm still in 1953 anyway, no need yet :) |
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| 10:11 | <Gekz> | Eddi|zuHause2: what does YAPP really do? |
| 10:12 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | read the thread? |
| 10:12 | <Mirrakor> | Yet Another Path... ? :D |
| 10:12 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | read the wiki? |
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| 10:39 | <Diadem> | no wiki entry on yapp is there? |
| 10:39 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | but on PBS |
| 10:46 | <Diadem> | true |
| 10:46 | <Diadem> | Gonna have to download one of the two later I guess |
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| 10:56 | <Sacro> | hh |
| 10:56 | <Sacro> | YAPP is so much better than PBS |
| 10:56 | <Sacro> | well, part of me did enjoy the huge crashes |
| 10:58 | <hylje> | what is yapp |
| 10:58 | <@peter1138> | heh |
| 10:58 | <@peter1138> | i should update my server |
| 10:59 | <Sacro> | peter1138: ci |
| 10:59 | <Sacro> | could do |
| 10:59 | <@peter1138> | and a new game |
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| 11:01 | <@peter1138> | SO I SHALL |
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| 11:04 | <Sacro> | peter1138: GO ON THEN |
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| 11:04 | <@peter1138> | there's a windows binary too |
| 11:05 | * | peter1138 compiles |
| 11:06 | <Sacro> | orly? |
| 11:07 | <@peter1138> | http://www.tt-forums.net/download/file.php?id=88585 |
| 11:07 | <@peter1138> | that one |
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| 11:09 | <Sacro> | nice |
| 11:10 | <hylje> | and there was much rejoicing |
| 11:13 | <@peter1138> | finished compiling |
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| 11:14 | <@peter1138> | SERVER RUNNING |
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| 11:23 | <Diadem> | Hmmm |
| 11:23 | <Diadem> | I want RoRo depots |
| 11:23 | <@peter1138> | code it :D |
| 11:24 | <hylje> | or just faux stations for depots |
| 11:25 | <Diadem> | Imagine a big line with a gazillion trains running over it. Those need to be serviced on occasion. So you order them to visit the depot before picking up cargo |
| 11:25 | <Diadem> | but all trains share orders, so they all visit the depot |
| 11:25 | <yorick> | I thought about that, but from which side should trains come out? |
| 11:25 | <yorick> | how to store their heading |
| 11:25 | <@peter1138> | yorick: whichever is appropriate |
| 11:25 | <Alberth> | Hmm, RoRo depots, would that look like hiding an entire bus behind a tree? |
| 11:25 | <Diadem> | How to do that without causing slowdowns? |
| 11:25 | <Diadem> | I can't see a way |
| 11:25 | <yorick> | nah, behind a stone wall |
| 11:26 | <@peter1138> | Diadem: RoRo depots, no? |
| 11:26 | <yorick> | and an infinite number of ~ |
| 11:26 | <Alberth> | I mean, first the entire train disappears in it, then at the other side it re-appears :P |
| 11:26 | <exe> | ***is it very easy to add merge_company request command to another player's window? then he answers yes/no. |
| 11:28 | <Diadem> | But guys. Some advice. I have a lot of trains travelling down a one-way track. I want them to visit the depot before they arrive at the station at the end of the line |
| 11:28 | <Diadem> | How to do this without causing slowdowns? Ie: one train enters depot, drives out again very slowly causing the next train on the line to have to stop |
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| 11:29 | <Diadem> | I mean I could do something like this: http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Advanced_Main_Line_Depot |
| 11:29 | <Diadem> | But that doesn't work, because the next train won't just pass by, it also wants to go to this depot |
| 11:29 | <Alberth> | Diadem: Maybe have several depots in parallel? |
| 11:30 | <Diadem> | But can I order trains to "Visit any depot along this line" instead of "visit this particilar depot"? |
| 11:31 | <Alberth> | Hmm, good one, hadn't thought of that |
| 11:32 | <Diadem> | Guess I can remove the depot order from the orders list and let them decide for themselves when they want to be serviced. But that somehow always leads to my trains ignoring all stations for 3/4 years while looking for the furthest possible depot. |
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| 11:33 | <Alberth> | In the original TTD, I once split a stream of trains between two stations by hand by giving them different destinations, worked quite well |
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| 11:34 | <Alberth> | (unloading was too slow then) |
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| 11:34 | <Diadem> | yeah but I like the option of sharing orders too much to abandon it :P |
| 11:35 | <yorick> | @calc 3000/4 |
| 11:35 | <@DorpsGek> | yorick: 750 |
| 11:35 | <Alberth> | you'd only need n shared orders for n depots |
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| 11:37 | <Diadem> | true |
| 11:37 | <Diadem> | perhaps these advanced main line depots are still the best options though |
| 11:37 | <Diadem> | And then i'm gonna have to put them in front of every station |
| 11:38 | <Diadem> | that'll slow down some cargo delivery, but will be fastest otherwise |
| 11:39 | <@peter1138> | just turn off breakdowns ;) |
| 11:40 | <lolman> | Wimps turn breakdowns off |
| 11:41 | <hylje> | i believe breakdowns should be redesigned among other things |
| 11:41 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | yes, the whole game needs to be redesigned :p |
| 11:42 | <hylje> | wouldnt be (or should not be) TTD after then |
| 11:42 | <Diadem> | hehe |
| 11:43 | <Diadem> | The best thing about TTD though is that you can load coal at a coal mine for free, then sell your train without any penalty |
| 11:43 | <Diadem> | As long as that is kept it'll be TTD imho :P |
| 11:43 | <hylje> | that's silly |
| 11:44 | <@peter1138> | I don't quite know about 'best thing'... |
| 11:44 | -!- | Sacro` is now known as Sacro |
| 11:45 | <yorick> | and, you can go to another station, get money for the cargo, turn the train around at 90%, and load 10%, and get 100% of the money again |
| 11:45 | <Diadem> | Another very realistic part of TTD is that you can load cargo and then transport it anywhere you want. And actually get payed more for trasnporting it to the other side of the map |
| 11:46 | <hylje> | it could be another game where one would have to strike contracts for traffic |
| 11:46 | <hylje> | micromanagement emphatised |
| 11:46 | <Alberth> | maybe only get paid with subsidies :) |
| 11:47 | <Dr_Jekyll> | someone could help me with adding a patch using cygwin? i've installed it and when i now try to ./configure it tells me "gcc not found...please define the CC/CXXenvironment to where it is located" what does this mean? |
| 11:47 | <hylje> | well, it'd be like "we pay XX for tracks between YY and ZZ, then you will transport at least AA items of interest per month with conditions BB and CC (..)" |
| 11:48 | <hylje> | maybe not as freeform and fun as TTD, but a different game altogether |
| 11:48 | <mrfrenzy> | Dr_Jekyll: I suggest you use mingw instead |
| 11:48 | <Alberth> | Dr_Jekyll: Define environment var CXX with gcc path in it |
| 11:50 | -!- | anhedral is now known as dih |
| 11:50 | <Joop> | If i add a DIFF to my binarys and compile this... Can i start a multiplayer with the patch running? |
| 11:51 | <Alberth> | A diff to your binaries? Usually one applies a diff to source code |
| 11:51 | <dih> | if you patch the binary - no |
| 11:51 | <dih> | if you patch the source - yes |
| 11:51 | <dih> | :-P |
| 11:51 | <Joop> | i am new to compiling :) but i mean that script that you can compile with "make" :P |
| 11:52 | <dih> | Alberth: you beat me too it - but mind was more funny :-P |
| 11:52 | <yorick> | "mind", yes, Joop, but you compile binaries with "make", not a script |
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| 11:54 | <Diadem> | Perhaps I should play this game at a harder difficulty :) |
| 11:54 | <Alberth> | dih: Well, I did once write a diff/patch for binaries, so it can be done :P |
| 11:54 | <Joop> | i mean that thing that you get from the SVN and compile with the "make" command... is this binaries or source? :P (new :P ) |
| 11:54 | <Diadem> | I'm making 10 million profit in 1952 :) |
| 11:56 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | easy. |
| 11:56 | <Alberth> | Joop: If it's readable in a text editor, it's source, if you can run it, it's an executable/binary |
| 11:56 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | problem is, with any difficulty you get to a point where you get money faster than you can spend it |
| 11:56 | * | dih takes his laptop and runs around... making his source binary |
| 11:57 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | i can read the binary in a text editor, does that count? |
| 11:58 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | i mean these python binaries that i have for my work project |
| 11:58 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | i can run them directly |
| 11:58 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | so they are binary |
| 11:58 | <hylje> | touche |
| 11:59 | <yorick> | no, Eddi, those are scripts |
| 11:59 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | what i really wanted to say... that "definition" is flawed |
| 11:59 | <yorick> | scripts != source |
| 12:00 | <yorick> | and script != binary |
| 12:00 | <yorick> | :o |
| 12:00 | <hylje> | you dare define python as mere scripts? |
| 12:00 | <dih> | yorick - you lost yourself |
| 12:00 | <yorick> | script = interpretable snippets of code that can be executed using a script interprenter |
| 12:00 | <Alberth> | No, non-executable Python is not a script |
| 12:01 | <Alberth> | it's source |
| 12:01 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | yorick: i368 is a "script interpreter", it interprets "machine code" scrips |
| 12:02 | * | yorick dislikes python |
| 12:03 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | you have no taste, we know that |
| 12:03 | <Alberth> | and you shouldn't try eating it :P |
| 12:04 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | ahh... server appears to be back... |
| 12:05 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | at least i got a dozen emails at once ;) |
| 12:06 | <yorick> | I only like flexible scripting languages |
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| 12:07 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | i can dynamically change the syntax tree of the language, is that flexible enough? |
| 12:08 | <Alberth> | Or change the class of an object after creating it :) |
| 12:08 | <yorick> | but you can't, change variable types from string to integer |
| 12:09 | <Alberth> | variables have no type |
| 12:09 | <yorick> | "1" * 1 = 1 :) |
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| 12:09 | <yorick> | "" + 1 = "1" :) |
| 12:10 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | sure, just redefine the operator |
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| 12:10 | <valhalla1w> | yorick: not in python |
| 12:10 | <valhalla1w> | oh, right |
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| 12:11 | <valhallasw> | what's wrong with just doing int("1")*1 if that's what you mean? |
| 12:11 | <yorick> | hehe |
| 12:11 | <valhallasw> | strong typing prevents assumptions by the interpreter/compiler :) |
| 12:11 | <yorick> | assumptions :o |
| 12:12 | <valhallasw> | are the mother of... ;) |
| 12:13 | <jez9999> | damnit. i lost my wallet :-( |
| 12:13 | <yorick> | you can't add methods to the prototype of certain things, can you? *String.prototype.* |
| 12:14 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | yorick: you can, just not to builtin types |
| 12:14 | <valhallasw> | erm, there are no prototypes in python |
| 12:14 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | def x(self, other): [...] |
| 12:14 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | SomeClass.__mul__=x |
| 12:15 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | SomeClass('a')*SomeClass('1') |
| 12:15 | <valhallasw> | that's monkey patching |
| 12:15 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | it's totally fun ;) |
| 12:15 | <hylje> | and totally bad for health |
| 12:17 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | it's not much different than C function pointers |
| 12:17 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | only you can't do pointer arithmetics ;) |
| 12:17 | <Alberth> | nah, "myobject.__class__ = OtherClass" is (which changes the class of an existing object) |
| 12:17 | <valhallasw> | because C does it doesn't mean it's good ;) |
| 12:17 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | nobody talked about "good" ;) |
| 12:17 | <valhallasw> | Alberth: "A monkey patch (also spelled monkey-patch, MonkeyPatch) is a way to extend or modify runtime code without altering the original source code for dynamic languages (e.g. Smalltalk, Javascript, Ruby, Perl, and Python)." |
| 12:17 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | i said "fun" ;) |
| 12:18 | <valhallasw> | ;) |
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| 12:33 | <Wolf01> | anybody who can help me a little? http://wolf01.game-host.org/OTTD_related/cut_fill_land.diff I'm trying to add 2 new tools, one to level the area if it is below the start point, and one to level the area if it is above the start point... but it crashes :D |
| 12:37 | <Alberth> | Where is Doxygen text supposed to go, in the .h file or the .cpp file? |
| 12:40 | <Alberth> | Wolf01: configure with --enable-debug, re-compile, enable core-dumps, make it crash again, look in the debugger what it was doing |
| 12:42 | <Wolf01> | I'm already debugging with vs80 |
| 12:42 | <Wolf01> | but it seem to work |
| 12:42 | <Wolf01> | at least with step execution |
| 12:44 | <Wolf01> | it asserts, but I know why (at least), and the "fill area" works |
| 12:44 | <Wolf01> | the "cut area" simply crashes |
| 12:45 | <yorick> | asserts how? |
| 12:47 | <Wolf01> | something about the costs |
| 12:48 | <Wolf01> | ok, seem that leaving a "=" sign fixed the crash |
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| 12:51 | <Wolf01> | res.GetCost() == res2.GetCost() && CmdFailed(res) == CmdFailed(res2) |
| 12:53 | -!- | dih is now known as anhedral |
| 12:54 | <Wolf01> | if I can make it work, I'll finally have a way to destroy mountains and keep coast lines intact... and the same to fill valleys and keep mountain top intact :P |
| 12:58 | <Sacro> | DESTROY TEH MOUNTAINS! |
| 13:11 | <Wolf01> | SOLUTION AT THE ERROR? |
| 13:12 | <yorick> | DESTROY THE VALLEYS! |
| 13:13 | <Wolf01> | it occurs only when I try to level multiple tiles :/ |
| 13:13 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | Peace the huts, war the palaces! |
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| 13:15 | <yorick> | heh |
| 13:15 | <yorick> | redefining stuff? |
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| 13:21 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | what do you mean? |
| 13:21 | <Dr_Jekyll> | baah...two weeks of searching, reading, trying, trying and trying...and now i have compiled my first build ;) |
| 13:22 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | the second time gets easier ;) |
| 13:22 | <Dr_Jekyll> | but now holidays are over and i haven't no time for playing... |
| 13:24 | <yorick> | :D |
| 13:24 | <yorick> | you should have gotten yourself a bottd, the mingw32 that comes with it has everything preinstalled |
| 13:25 | <Dr_Jekyll> | but wit bottd it isn't possible to add more than one patch...someone told me |
| 13:25 | <yorick> | you don't have to use the actual bottd |
| 13:25 | <yorick> | just the mingw that comes with it |
| 13:26 | <Dr_Jekyll> | hm... |
| 13:26 | <Dr_Jekyll> | now i've done it with tortoisesvn and cygwin |
| 13:27 | <Diadem> | Doesn't it work with normal mingw? |
| 13:27 | <yorick> | yes |
| 13:27 | <yorick> | but needs some libs ;) |
| 13:28 | <yorick> | argh...tortoisesvn...argh...cygwin! |
| 13:29 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | cygwin is baaad |
| 13:29 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | you should really have gone with mingw |
| 13:30 | <yorick> | tortoisesvn is baaad |
| 13:30 | <yorick> | you should really have gone with normal svn |
| 13:30 | <Diadem> | indeed, mingw > cygwin |
| 13:30 | <Sacro> | linux > mingw |
| 13:30 | <yorick> | price(windows) > price(linux) |
| 13:31 | <Diadem> | actually "linux > mingw" ==> syntax error |
| 13:31 | <Diadem> | can't compare OS with compiler :) |
| 13:31 | <yorick> | compatibility(windows) > control(linux) |
| 13:31 | <Sacro> | linux is only a kernel |
| 13:32 | <Diadem> | nevertheless, it is not a compiler :) |
| 13:32 | <yorick> | compilers don't have sh.exe, do they? |
| 13:34 | <Diadem> | Hey guys something completely different :) |
| 13:34 | <+glx> | yorick: sh.exe is in msys not in mingw |
| 13:34 | <Diadem> | When I last played this game 2-3 years ago I wrote a patch that allowed to demolish and raise/lower land not only in squares, but also diagonally |
| 13:34 | <Diadem> | Does anyone know what became of that? |
| 13:34 | <yorick> | it became outdated |
| 13:35 | <Diadem> | hehe, yeah, I guess so :) |
| 13:35 | <Diadem> | So noone picked it up for any patch collection or anything? |
| 13:35 | <Diadem> | shame, it was so useful ... |
| 13:36 | <yorick> | yes, but was outdated |
| 13:36 | <yorick> | patch collections started 6 months ago |
| 13:36 | <Diadem> | And noone updated it? Hmm |
| 13:36 | <Diadem> | gonna have to do that myself then I guess |
| 13:36 | <yorick> | and noone gave permission |
| 13:36 | <Diadem> | permission for what? |
| 13:37 | <yorick> | updating / picking up for patch collections |
| 13:37 | <Diadem> | Hmm, quite sure I did back then |
| 13:37 | <Diadem> | but it's ages ago |
| 13:38 | <Diadem> | Anyway you have heard of my patch then? |
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| 13:54 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | <yorick> patch collections started 6 months ago <- you got that totally wrong |
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| 13:54 | -!- | mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ |
| 13:54 | <yorick> | Bjarni! |
| 13:55 | <yorick> | Eddi, no, miniin is not counted a patch collection from my side |
| 13:55 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | there were "integrated nightlies" even before i joined here over 2 years ago |
| 13:55 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | what else would miniin be? |
| 13:56 | <@Bjarni> | I'm against the idea of people using multiple patches of questionable quality |
| 13:56 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | it started out the same way as all the other "patch collections" as you call them |
| 13:57 | <@Bjarni> | because if it fails they presume it's a bug in the game core and makes bug reports like it's a clean source |
| 13:57 | <SmatZ> | that doesn't happen that often |
| 13:57 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | and miniin was also not the first |
| 13:59 | <@Bjarni> | SmatZ: not often but it's really annoying when it happens |
| 14:02 | <jez9999> | <@Bjarni> I'm against the idea of people using multiple patches of questionable quality |
| 14:02 | <jez9999> | ^ hey, you contributed autoreplace. :-D |
| 14:02 | <@Bjarni> | that's different |
| 14:02 | <@Bjarni> | because it's one single feature |
| 14:03 | <@Bjarni> | also it has a determent developer fixing the severe issues |
| 14:03 | <jez9999> | hmm |
| 14:03 | <Diadem> | Yeah I remember those integrated nightlies |
| 14:04 | <jez9999> | i dont suppose you feel like unilaterally making a very small (8 line modifications) code change that would significantly improve the game? |
| 14:04 | <Diadem> | I think my patch made it into those actually. But what happened to them? |
| 14:05 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | Diadem: after a while, especially with developers disappearing, they get impossible to maintain |
| 14:05 | <Diadem> | guess that's true :) |
| 14:09 | <@peter1138> | 17:55 @Bjarni> also it has a determent developer fixing the severe issues |
| 14:09 | <@peter1138> | bwhahaha |
| 14:10 | <@Bjarni> | like there are any severe unfixed issues in autoreplace |
| 14:11 | <jez9999> | my face code got chucked out because of the odd wrong curly brace |
| 14:11 | <jez9999> | apparently severe issues aren't the only problem :-) |
| 14:11 | <yorick> | if it fails to compile, it's severe |
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| 14:21 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | if it compiles, ship it! |
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| 14:28 | <fjb> | Hello |
| 14:28 | <jez9999> | Bjarni: <jez9999> i dont suppose you feel like unilaterally making a very small (8 line modifications) code change that would significantly improve the game? |
| 14:28 | <jez9999> | you didnt answer ;-) |
| 14:29 | <@Bjarni> | huh? |
| 14:30 | <jez9999> | i was asking :-) |
| 14:30 | <@Bjarni><Eddi | zuHause2> if it compiles, ship it! <-- use Titanic if it breaks savegames and stuff like that |
| 14:30 | <@Bjarni> | read: ensure that it's lost for good in the transfer |
| 14:31 | <jez9999> |
