| --- | Log | opened Sat Mar 15 00:00:02 2008 |
| --- | Day | changed Sat Mar 15 2008 |
| 00:00 | -!- | XeryusTC is now known as Xeryus|bnc |
| 00:03 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | i take the night |
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| 03:09 | <Pinchiukas> | what do you think about simutrans? why are there multiple games anyway? |
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| 03:45 | <Sionide> | lol |
| 03:46 | <Sionide> | market forces... |
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| 04:55 | <@peter1138> | TheJosh: there's already a plugin for gedit to show tabs & spaces. |
| 04:56 | <TheJosh> | i was looking for ages for one because I heard about it and i couldnt find it |
| 04:57 | <@peter1138> | Makes it a bit slow on my PC though. |
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| 04:57 | <@peter1138> | This one is called "Draw Spaces" |
| 04:57 | <@peter1138> | I don't know where it came from though. |
| 04:58 | <@peter1138> | Sacro, Sacro, Sacro! |
| 04:59 | <hylje> | Sacro! NewDrawSpaces! |
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| 05:02 | <@peter1138> | Vim's draw spaces at end of line is more useful, though. |
| 05:03 | <TheJosh> | Devs, i have a page for you http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Improved_Shares |
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| 05:07 | <TheJosh> | someone said I should write what changes I plan of actually making, so that page has planned features and a simple roadmap |
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| 05:10 | <@peter1138> | Cool |
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| 05:13 | <TheJosh> | anyway im off |
| 05:13 | <Draakon> | greedings |
| 05:13 | <TheJosh> | good night all |
| 05:13 | <TheJosh> | hey |
| 05:13 | <TheJosh> | good night |
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| 05:48 | <snappy> | Hi, is there a way to play openttd in fullscreen? |
| 05:48 | <snappy> | er nevermind -- alt+enter, i cant believe i didnt bother trying that until i joined this channel and asked heh. |
| 05:50 | <Draakon> | happens |
| 05:55 | <@peter1138> | If you can't figure something out, ask a question. You're bound to figure it out 3 seconds later :D |
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| 06:09 | <Wolf01> | hello |
| 06:11 | <@peter1138> | Hi. |
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| 07:51 | -!- | jez is now known as jez9999 |
| 07:51 | <jez9999> | I have a question |
| 07:52 | <jez9999> | has anyone written a patch that gives you the ability to set trains' service interval to 20 days, then say 'at any junction, if any turn leads to a service depot within 5 squares and it's been 20 days since your last service, take that junction and go to the service depot' |
| 07:52 | <jez9999> | ? |
| 07:52 | <jez9999> | basically i want to have a load of non-mandatory service depots scattered around, then have not all trains going in there, but doing so when they pass one 20 days after their last service |
| 07:53 | <Frostregen> | the only thing which needs to be changed should be the "do i need to service?" check |
| 07:53 | <Frostregen> | beeing called when entering a junction, instead of every day |
| 07:54 | <Alberth> | couldn't you achieve the same effect by building enough depots along the line? |
| 07:54 | <Gonozal_VIII> | hmm |
| 07:54 | <Gonozal_VIII> | i don't think that's good |
| 07:54 | <Gonozal_VIII> | lots of unneeded checks then |
| 07:54 | <Frostregen> | less checks... |
| 07:54 | <Prof_Frink> | jez9999: The potential problem with that is: it may be only five squares *to* the depot, but how many sqaures is it to get back to the mainline in the right direction? |
| 07:54 | <Gonozal_VIII> | once a day is enough |
| 07:55 | <Frostregen> | ok, depends on train speed |
| 07:55 | <Gonozal_VIII> | you have to place your depots right or just use depot orders |
| 07:55 | <Alberth> | Prof_Frink: Isn't that happening now as well? |
| 07:56 | <jez9999> | prof: well i have service stations off the main track, like this: http://www.game-point.net/misc/depot.png |
| 07:56 | <jez9999> | so getting back on the main track wouldnt be a problem |
| 07:56 | <jez9999> | maybe within 3 squares, i could say |
| 07:56 | <jez9999> | it could be configurable |
| 07:57 | <Alberth> | jez9999: What would happen with trains that never get at that junction? |
| 07:57 | <jez9999> | i'd build enough juntions around the place (i already do) that all trains will pass at least 1 |
| 07:57 | <jez9999> | at the moment, they're mandatory |
| 07:58 | <jez9999> | that's slowing things down with a lot of trains on the track |
| 07:58 | <Gonozal_VIII> | that should work with the current system, no need to change |
| 07:58 | <jez9999> | if each train had to go once every 20 days it would improve a lot |
| 07:58 | <jez9999> | how would it work? |
| 07:58 | <Gonozal_VIII> | you can't set service interval to 20... but 30 should be enough |
| 07:59 | <Gonozal_VIII> | with the way you build that there they should automatically choose the next depot |
| 08:00 | <Frostregen> | i would just leave it mandatory, but build it in a way which allows more throughput |
| 08:00 | <Alberth> | could you elaborate on "slowing things down"? Maybe that can be fixed by a different layout |
| 08:00 | <Gonozal_VIII> | yes, the sidetracks should at least be as long as the trains |
| 08:01 | <jez9999> | Gonozal_VIII: the trouble with that is, if the next destination available to them is their next station, i want them to go to that even if they're due their next service |
| 08:01 | <Frostregen> | http://saddam.ath.cx/fastmandatory.png |
| 08:01 | <jez9999> | Gonozal_VIII: currently if they are past 30 days they won't go to the station, they'll turn around somewhere and waste time going to a depot |
| 08:01 | <jez9999> | i want them to simply stop at the next station they get to when they're due their service |
| 08:01 | <Gonozal_VIII> | you could give them service at orders for every depot along the line |
| 08:02 | <jez9999> | Frostregen: well yeah but even with that, EVERY train has to slow down and service |
| 08:02 | <jez9999> | the fact that they're having to service maybe too often slows them down |
| 08:02 | <Gonozal_VIII> | not with service at orders |
| 08:02 | <Frostregen> | you want them to service!? |
| 08:03 | <jez9999> | every 20 days or so |
| 08:03 | <jez9999> | but if i have lots of mandatory service depots, some will no doubt service too often |
| 08:03 | <jez9999> | slowing them down |
| 08:03 | <Gonozal_VIII> | use service at orders, change the signal direction on the straight track |
| 08:03 | <Gonozal_VIII> | then everything should work fine |
| 08:04 | <jez9999> | Gonozal_VIII: eh? not really, the train will still service every time round |
| 08:04 | <jez9999> | you don't want to have to specify 'service at' at all |
| 08:04 | <Gonozal_VIII> | they will skip the service at order if they don't need it |
| 08:04 | <jez9999> | just 'every 20 days' |
| 08:04 | <jez9999> | oh |
| 08:04 | <jez9999> | hmm didnt know that |
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| 08:05 | <jez9999> | ok |
| 08:05 | <jez9999> | so what we need is a patch that kind of automatically puts 'service at' orders in |
| 08:05 | <jez9999> | difficult to write i suppose |
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| 08:05 | <Gonozal_VIII> | don't be so lazy :P |
| 08:05 | <Frostregen> | hmm, first thing would be some better breakdown code ;) |
| 08:06 | <Frostregen> | (which resets on service. not on breakdown) |
| 08:06 | <jez9999> | Frostregen: btw how tough do you think that bridge thing would be with the copy/paste patch? |
| 08:06 | <Gonozal_VIII> | that bridge thing? |
| 08:06 | <Frostregen> | not very hard |
| 08:06 | <Frostregen> | just a fallback routine |
| 08:06 | <Frostregen> | just some work fiddeling out the constraints |
| 08:07 | <jez9999> | yeah |
| 08:07 | <jez9999> | should be good |
| 08:07 | <jez9999> | the bridges on my junctions are all so small anyway that any bridge type could be built for them |
| 08:07 | <Frostregen> | but first comes this signal stuff |
| 08:07 | <Frostregen> | nope |
| 08:07 | <Frostregen> | there is a minimum length too |
| 08:07 | <jez9999> | ah |
| 08:07 | <Gonozal_VIII> | anyways, leave your tracks as they are, change signal direction on the straight track to allow them to pass through and add service at order for every depot they pass by and it should work just fine |
| 08:08 | <jez9999> | Gonozal_VIII: i know but that's annyoyingly hard work ;-) and requires me to update all trains orders if i add a service depot, very annoying |
| 08:08 | <jez9999> | i have to figure out which trains are going past it, and add it to their orders |
| 08:08 | <Gonozal_VIII> | don't you use shared orders? |
| 08:09 | <Gonozal_VIII> | and/or groups |
| 08:09 | <jez9999> | only for trains on the same route |
| 08:09 | <Frostregen> | so just use mandatory, and live with some trains servicing too often ;) |
| 08:10 | <Gonozal_VIII> | yep |
| 08:10 | <jez9999> | which i do now |
| 08:10 | <jez9999> | just be nice to have the functionality i specified above, it would be perfect |
| 08:10 | <jez9999> | trains servicing at exactly the right time, but most passing straight thru |
| 08:10 | <Gonozal_VIII> | i told you how to get that :P |
| 08:10 | <jez9999> | without having to spacify manually ;-) |
| 08:11 | <Frostregen> | high-throughput mandatory conserves train order, and train distance to each other. You never have a train slowing down another train due to servicing |
| 08:11 | <Gonozal_VIII> | they do it on their own too, only problem there is that they don't check if they can reach their next destination if they service there |
| 08:12 | <jez9999> | Frostregen: yeah but you have a train slowing down itself due to servicing ;-) thanks for the diagram tho, i'll probably save a copy/paste of that |
| 08:12 | <Gonozal_VIII> | anyways, servicing every 20 days seems to be way too much |
| 08:13 | <jez9999> | yeah maybe 30 |
| 08:13 | <jez9999> | but the default of 150 is no good, breakdowns too often |
| 08:13 | <Frostregen> | if my thought are correct this does not limit line throughput, just time needed to arrive |
| 08:13 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | <Frostregen> but first comes this signal stuff <- wasn't your MiniIN version already capable of copying PBS signals? |
| 08:13 | <jez9999> | time is everything :-) |
| 08:13 | <Gonozal_VIII> | watch the reliability percentage |
| 08:14 | <Frostregen> | throughput! |
| 08:14 | <Frostregen> | :) |
| 08:14 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | aesthetics! |
| 08:14 | <jez9999> | Frostregen: it doesnt support PBS copying? |
| 08:14 | <jez9999> | i have a copy/paste with PBS signals in it |
| 08:14 | <jez9999> | is pastes ok |
| 08:14 | <jez9999> | *it |
| 08:15 | <Frostregen> | it is a basic problem... |
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| 08:16 | <Frostregen> | signaltype are rebuilt by clicking ctrl+buildsignal |
| 08:16 | <Frostregen> | a fixed number of times |
| 08:16 | <Frostregen> | if you use the new pbs patch, you can change the cycle order |
| 08:16 | <Frostregen> | thus corrupting my approach |
| 08:17 | <Frostregen> | back then there was no functionality to build a given type directly |
| 08:17 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | hm... you could change that cycle temporarily |
| 08:17 | <Frostregen> | this has been introduced by signal-gui |
| 08:17 | <Frostregen> | so it is no problem now |
| 08:17 | <Gonozal_VIII> | directly is better than cycling |
| 08:17 | <Frostregen> | yep |
| 08:18 | <Gonozal_VIII> | only one command :-) |
| 08:18 | <Frostregen> | i just need to do it ;) |
| 08:18 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | yeah, it is probably the better approach ;) |
| 08:18 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | but i understand that your patch is older ;) |
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| 08:32 | <jez9999> | omg, i just paid 1.1million to 'prospect' for a coal mine and... nothing happpened |
| 08:32 | <jez9999> | does it just take 1.1 million if you cant build one? surtely prospecting should be a lot cheaper |
| 08:32 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | that is the point of prospecting |
| 08:32 | <mrfrenzy> | not all prospects work out in the end ;) |
| 08:33 | <jez9999> | that's incredibly expensive for prospecting though, building i can understand but prospecting should be like 1/10th of the price |
| 08:33 | <jez9999> | otherwise it's never going to be worth it |
| 08:33 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | are you kidding? building is the cheapest of all |
| 08:33 | <pax``> | Is there a way to make openttd run in a particular resolution? It's not comfortable to run 800x600 and 1024*768 is too much in height for my widescreen monitor to play in a window |
| 08:33 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | finding the ressources is the expensive part |
| 08:34 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | pax``: "resolution = 1680,988" in the .cfg |
| 08:34 | <Frostregen> | pax: just resize the window? |
| 08:34 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | but i just maximise the window |
| 08:35 | <pax``> | doh >.< |
| 08:35 | <pax``> | Should've tried the most obvious before asking >.< |
| 08:35 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | that is common these days ;) |
| 08:36 | <pax``> | Weird though, I remember trying resizing and that it wouldn't work... Now it has quirks but works... Maximising works great though |
| 08:37 | <@peter1138> | Quirks? |
| 08:37 | <pax``> | The screen starts flickering while resizing |
| 08:37 | <pax``> | Nevermind it's not an issue now that I've been introduced to the mighty maximise button >.< |
| 08:39 | <Frostregen> | hm, yapp changes meaning of CmdBuildSingleSignal p1 bit 7 |
| 08:40 | <Frostregen> | so there can't be one version of my code for both :( |
| 08:42 | <pax``> | Is there something besides the visual difference of having either 2 railstations one beside the other and one large with 2 railroads in it? |
| 08:42 | <Frostregen> | catchment |
| 08:43 | <Frostregen> | and trains cannot choose the other station |
| 08:45 | <pax``> | Hmm... Choose as in when they try to pathfind? Catchment as in how far the station can transfer goods to/from? |
| 08:46 | <Frostregen> | both yes |
| 08:46 | <Frostregen> | if you order a train to load at a station, it will use any free platform of exactly this station |
| 08:47 | <Frostregen> | it will never use a platform of an adjacent but different station |
| 08:48 | <Frostregen> | this is useful for separating loading bays at farms for example. (one for grain, one for cattle) |
| 08:48 | <Gonozal_VIII> | waypoints :-) |
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| 08:49 | <Frostregen> | yes, i use waypoints too |
| 08:49 | <Gonozal_VIII> | but waypoints on a diagonal line suck, there should be diagonal waypoints |
| 08:49 | <Frostregen> | but nonetheless it is a possibility ;) |
| 08:49 | <Frostregen> | definitely |
| 08:49 | <SmatZ> | and diagonal stations |
| 08:50 | <SmatZ> | and diagonal roads |
| 08:50 | <SmatZ> | and diagonal tunnels and bridges |
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| 08:50 | <Gonozal_VIII> | ye |
| 08:50 | <Gonozal_VIII> | s |
| 08:50 | <pax``> | Just make 3d non-tile based ttd and get it over with =p |
| 08:50 | <SmatZ> | :-P |
| 08:50 | <Gonozal_VIII> | hehe, hexagonal tiles |
| 08:50 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | <Gonozal_VIII> but waypoints on a diagonal line suck, there should be diagonal waypoints <-- problem is, you need two waypoints on the same tile |
| 08:51 | <Gonozal_VIII> | you could disallow that... |
| 08:51 | <Prof_Frink> | Or, do away with phyical waypoints altogether |
| 08:51 | <Prof_Frink> | "Go via 125,482" |
| 08:51 | <Gonozal_VIII> | hmmm |
| 08:51 | <SmatZ> | like locomotion |
| 08:52 | <Gonozal_VIII> | rather make them like routemarkers |
| 08:52 | <Gonozal_VIII> | that would be best imho, then you could place them on every tile, even on one with signals |
| 08:53 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | what _i_ need with waypoints is conditional destionations... "go via 'Platform 1' OR 'Platform 3'" |
| 08:53 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | [whichever is free][whichever is free] |
| 08:54 | <Gonozal_VIII> | that could be done with connected waypoints... |
| 08:54 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | only if i want to have fixed sets |
| 08:54 | <Gonozal_VIII> | hmm yes |
| 08:55 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | i could want to send another train to "'Platform 3' OR 'Platform 4'" |
| 08:55 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | the number of combinations is exponential |
| 08:55 | <Prof_Frink> | Or, on the coord-system, be able to drag a rectangle as a waypoint - "Go via 125,482:126,473" |
| 08:56 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | rectangle wouldn't be enough to say "every odd platform" |
| 08:56 | <Prof_Frink> | Yeah, you'd need to be able to use arbitrary shapes |
| 08:57 | <Gonozal_VIII> | 125,482:126,473;130,482 |
| 08:57 | <Gonozal_VIII> | with the ; as or :-) |
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| 08:58 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | i'd still prefer a textual representation of the waypoint |
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| 08:59 | <Gonozal_VIII> | trackbits would be needed too... |
| 09:00 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | don't go there ;) |
| 09:00 | <Frostregen> | [13:53:43][13:53:43] <Prof_Frink> "Go via 125,482" -> or make it an area |
| 09:00 | <Gonozal_VIII> | it's quite different to use the right or the left track |
| 09:00 | <Prof_Frink> | Frostregen: [12:55:44] < Prof_Frink> Or, on the coord-system, be able to drag a rectangle as a waypoint - "Go via 125,482:126,473" |
| 09:01 | <Frostregen> | ah, just read it |
| 09:01 | <Frostregen> | sry |
| 09:04 | <Sacro> | >< why is x-chat widescreening my text |
| 09:05 | <Sacro> | ITS A 16:9 SCREEN DAMNIT |
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| 09:07 | <pax``> | valuables are only transportable between banks? |
| 09:08 | <Prof_Frink> | correct |
| 09:08 | <pax``> | =( There's only one bank on the map right now... |
| 09:08 | <Gonozal_VIII> | and ecs tourist centers |
| 09:09 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | there is also a minimum distance to discourage transporting back to the same bank |
| 09:11 | <jez9999> | hmm |
| 09:12 | <jez9999> | is there a patch that allows mass-upgrading of railroad trains to monorail trains? |
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| 09:12 | -!- | mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ |
| 09:12 | <Frostregen> | i don't think so |
| 09:12 | <jez9999> | maybe something like, when you convert track type on a depot, it upgrades all train engines inside to the best possible monorail vehicle? |
| 09:12 | <jez9999> | otherwise it's virtually impossible to convert a large network's track type |
| 09:12 | <jez9999> | :-\ |
| 09:12 | <Frostregen> | it just takes one or two years |
| 09:13 | <Frostregen> | ;) |
| 09:13 | <mrfrenzy> | problem for me is finding a good grf set that has trains for all cargo on all traintypes |
| 09:13 | <Gonozal_VIII> | are there even grf sets with monorail? |
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| 09:14 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | jez9999: problem is, the wagons also have to be converted |
| 09:14 | <Frostregen> | since speed changes you have to accomodate for less needed trains anyway |
| 09:15 | <pax``> | Will it make a city grow larger if I only transfer passangers to it, one way? |
| 09:15 | <jez9999> | one or 2 years? |
| 09:15 | <jez9999> | not likely, i have 90 trains |
| 09:15 | <jez9999> | unless you mean 1 or 2 years of real time :-D |
| 09:15 | <Frostregen> | nope, you just need a good system |
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| 09:15 | <jez9999> | what good system? |
| 09:16 | <Frostregen> | send all trains to depot. then go to all loading stations, one after another. |
| 09:16 | <Frostregen> | click on trainlist |
| 09:16 | <Gonozal_VIII> | keep one train of every shared orders group, send it to a depot, sell it, upgrade depot, buy a new train |
| 09:16 | <Frostregen> | build a maglev/mono train which will replace those, then clone enough and start them |
| 09:17 | <jez9999> | erm... |
| 09:17 | <jez9999> | and how do you get them to run on railtrack |
| 09:17 | <Gonozal_VIII> | you don't |
| 09:17 | <Frostregen> | convert the track first |
| 09:17 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | the system is very easy... build new depot next to old depot, open both windows |
| 09:17 | <Gekz> | someone |
| 09:17 | <Frostregen> | (after sending to depot) |
| 09:17 | <Gekz> | wake me up |
| 09:17 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | (build new train, share/copy orders with old train, sell old train)* |
| 09:18 | <Frostregen> | eddi: this approach takes more time, since you need to check all depots |
| 09:18 | <Frostregen> | and replace every single train |
| 09:18 | <Prof_Frink> | Eddi|zuHause2: compare ttdpatch: upgrade depot, sell train, buy train, buy wagons, go |
| 09:18 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | well, you have a list of all trains |
| 09:18 | <jez9999> | frost: on many loading stations, i have several different train types |
| 09:18 | <jez9999> | this complicates things greatly |
| 09:19 | <Frostregen> | hmm, ok |
| 09:19 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | Prof_Frink: i think there was a patch that allowed this |
| 09:19 | <jez9999> | nah, i need to write some patch that autoconverts trains in depots when upgrading track type |
| 09:19 | <jez9999> | sigh |
| 09:19 | <Gonozal_VIII> | prof frink, it's almost the same in open |
| 09:19 | <Gonozal_VIII> | sell train, upgrade depot, buy train, train has old orders |
| 09:19 | <jez9999> | you should always have an equivalent engine and wagon for each type of old engine and wagon, shouldn't you? |
| 09:20 | <Frostregen> | hehe |
| 09:20 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | Gonozal_VIII: only works with only one train inside the depot |
| 09:20 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | jez9999: no |
| 09:20 | <jez9999> | when wouldnt you? |
| 09:20 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | some sets disallow freight transportation with maglev |
| 09:20 | <Gonozal_VIII> | that's why i said keep one of each shared orders group |
| 09:20 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | only allow passengers/mail/goods/valuables |
| 09:21 | <jez9999> | Eddi|zuHause2: well presumably you could detect that there is no equivalent? |
| 09:21 | <jez9999> | in that case just popup an error saying 'couldnt convert all trains' |
| 09:21 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: smatz * r12368 /trunk/ (7 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: use explicit body for loops and conditions and remove -Wno-empty-body from the configure script |
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| 09:22 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | jez9999: the problem is more fundamental, see http://bugs.openttd.org/task/1264 |
| 09:23 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | it would be the same with replacing rail->maglev |
| 09:23 | <Frostregen> | or maybe you would have to specify a replacement for each existing engine/wagon combo, before conversion |
| 09:24 | <Frostregen> | (just those which are currently used ingame) |
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| 09:24 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | Frostregen: link also applies to you |
| 09:24 | <jez9999> | Frostregen: damn newGRF :-) |
| 09:25 | <jez9999> | well i dont use newgrf, so i'd probably just write s patch for the default stuff |
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| 09:25 | <Yorick> | hello |
| 09:25 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | jez9999: just don't expect this to get into any official build ;) |
| 09:25 | <jez9999> | the buggy current autoreplace is in the official build |
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| 09:26 | <Yorick> | true |
| 09:26 | -!- | X3ryusTC is now known as XeryusTC |
| 09:26 | <Frostregen> | eddi: no, i said "specify a replacement for any used train/wagon combo beforehand" |
| 09:26 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | it's a bjarnism, that is no comparison ;) |
| 09:27 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | Frostregen: still, replacing happens one by one |
| 09:27 | <jez9999> | what is a DMU? |
| 09:27 | <Prof_Frink> | diseasel multiple unit |
| 09:27 | <Frostregen> | and? |
| 09:27 | <jez9999> | what does multiple unit mean? |
| 09:27 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | 1. replace engine |
| 09:27 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | 2. try to apply wagons to engine |
| 09:27 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | 3. fail!! |
| 09:28 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | [4. replace first wagon ...][4. replace first wagon ...] |
| 09:28 | <Frostregen> | this is the current autoreplace system |
| 09:28 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | yes, |
| 09:29 | <Frostregen> | not the one which would be needed for semi-auto tracktype conversion |
| 09:29 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | problem is that you cannot test multiple replacements in a row |
| 09:29 | <Frostregen> | which would have an exact target consist, for every given consist |
| 09:29 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | and rollback in case it fails |
| 09:29 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | no, that is not needed |
| 09:29 | <+glx> | autoreplace needs yet another full rewrite |
| 09:29 | <jez9999> | hmm, is there, like, 1 function that's currently used for autoreplace? |
| 09:29 | <jez9999> | i'm just thinking that this functionality could just hook into that |
| 09:30 | <jez9999> | then when autoreplace is fixed this will be too |
| 09:30 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | it would also be overcomplicated to specify complete consists |
| 09:30 | <Yorick> | grep -r "autoreplace" * ;) |
| 09:30 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | and still there is no way to replace more than one single vehicle at a time [command wise] |
| 09:30 | <Maedhros> | Yorick: you'd probably want a -i in there, too ;) |
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| 09:31 | <Yorick> | noone writes "AutoReplace"... |
| 09:31 | <+glx> | autorenew uses autoreplace too |
| 09:31 | <jez9999> | when you convert a depot's railtype, it can check to see if any stopped rail vehicles are there |
| 09:32 | <jez9999> | if they are, it can hook into the autoreplace for each of them |
| 09:32 | <jez9999> | somehow figuring out an equivalent replacement engine and wagon for the new track type :-) |
| 09:32 | <Maedhros> | glx: out of interest, how many rewrites has autoreplace already had? |
| 09:32 | <+glx> | 3 IIRC |
| 09:32 | <Maedhros> | heh |
| 09:33 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | Frostregen: what is needed is a vehicle sandbox, where you can assemble the new train without money-constraints, then test if the consist can be started, then test if the money suffices |
| 09:33 | <+glx> | Bjarni's style ;) |
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| 09:34 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | jez9999: not needed, you can just upgrade the depot, and then use the "replace" button in the depot to upgrade the trains |
| 09:34 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | only disallow all trains that are not of the correct railtype to be started |
| 09:35 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | [which should already be implemented][which should already be implemented] |
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| 09:35 | <jez9999> | Eddi|zuHause2: you cant upgrade the depot with trains of a different track type inside? |
| 09:35 | <jez9999> | you get 'train in the way' |
| 09:36 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | jez9999: that is a one-liner ;) |
| 09:36 | <jez9999> | "disallow all trains that are not of the correct railtype to be started" |
| 09:36 | <jez9999> | hmm, interesting idea |
| 09:36 | <Frostregen> | hmm |
| 09:36 | <+glx> | like you can't upgrade a track with a running train |
| 09:36 | <jez9999> | but depots are fundamentally different |
| 09:36 | <jez9999> | trains 'disappear' inside a depot |
| 09:37 | <+glx> | they are tracks internaly |
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| 09:37 | <jez9999> | yeah, thought they might be :-\ |
| 09:37 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | glx: afaik rail->electric is allowed with train |
| 09:37 | <+glx> | only for depots |
| 09:37 | <jez9999> | no |
| 09:37 | <jez9999> | i've upgraded rail-electric with tracks |
| 09:38 | <+glx> | jez9999: and you may have missing catenries |
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| 09:39 | <SmatZ> | no |
| 09:39 | <SmatZ> | it just works |
| 09:39 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | it was disallowed in the beginning, but there were too many complaints |
| 09:39 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | so it got allowed |
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| 09:57 | <jez9999> | another thing i wanted to ask |
| 09:58 | <jez9999> | has anyone written a patch to filter out companies on the 'view company-coloured stuff' map? |
| 09:58 | <jez9999> | ie. when you go onto the map and view the 'land owners' option, you can select which company's land gets coloured |
| 10:04 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | you mean similar to filtering industries? |
| 10:04 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | that should be easy |
| 10:05 | <jez9999> | yep |
| 10:05 | <jez9999> | seemed quite obvious given the industry filtering so i wondered if anyone had written a patch for it |
| 10:05 | -!- | planetmaker [~chatzilla@195.4.204.176] has joined #openttd |
| 10:05 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | i have not seen it |
| 10:06 | -!- | jez9999 [virtua@87-194-212-214.bethere.co.uk] has quit [] |
| 10:09 | <Gonozal_VIII> | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCrHwqGfkYs |
| 10:09 | <Gonozal_VIII> | they forgot the fireball |
| 10:10 | <SmatZ> | :-D |
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| 10:11 | <Gekz> | would you rather be a large man with a small penis, or a small man with a large penis? |
| 10:11 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | wrong question |
| 10:11 | <Gonozal_VIII> | wtf?^^ |
| 10:11 | <Gekz> | answer it |
| 10:11 | <SmatZ> | I don't get why he has 2 helmets on his head |
| 10:11 | <Gekz> | >__> |
| 10:12 | <Gonozal_VIII> | because it's xtra dangerous there |
| 10:12 | <SmatZ> | at 01:39 |
| 10:12 | <SmatZ> | :-D |
| 10:12 | -!- | divo [~asd@x1-6-00-18-39-d3-e9-f6.k899.webspeed.dk] has joined #openttd |
| 10:12 | -!- | nzvip [~svip@AToulon-151-1-86-252.w86-197.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd |
| 10:12 | -!- | Link [~dkadaf@d40a66ac.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #openttd |
| 10:13 | <Link> | Hey |
| 10:13 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | i found the missing Link |
| 10:13 | <Link> | :O |
| 10:13 | <SmatZ> | between "apes" and human? |
| 10:13 | <Gonozal_VIII> | isn't that the zelda guy? |
| 10:13 | -!- | Yorick [~yorick@82-171-194-232.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd |
| 10:14 | <Link> | yes im from zelda |
| 10:14 | <Link> | nvm |
| 10:14 | * | SmatZ doesn't mind |
| 10:14 | <Link> | i actually heard this name before i found it that there was a game called zelda... |
| 10:14 | <Link> | well |
| 10:14 | <Gonozal_VIII> | i never mindeded at all |
| 10:15 | <Yorick> | I think the whole chatting stuff should be redone...e.g. [all] chat and other chat types seperated, colors |
| 10:15 | <Link> | Is there anywhere i can find a manual for rail lights ? :P |
| 10:15 | <Yorick> | transporttycoon.net? |
| 10:15 | <Gonozal_VIII> | when they are green, trains move |
| 10:15 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | in the wiki? |
| 10:15 | <Link> | it always gets fucked up when i use them.. |
| 10:15 | <SmatZ> | :-D |
| 10:16 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | use the yapp signals, they are much more natural ;) |
| 10:16 | <Yorick> | how about redrawing the LA window when the rating changes :o |
| 10:16 | <Maedhros> | this is one of the best guides i've seen - http://uwe.s2000.ws/ttdx/ (though it is a bit ttdp-specific at times) |
| 10:17 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | Yorick: provide a patch ;) |
| 10:17 | <Link> | oh its called signal not rail lights ^^ |
| 10:17 | * | Yorick wants that programmable signals |
| 10:18 | <Link> | http://uwe.s2000.ws/ttdx/station/station4.png |
| 10:18 | <Link> | woot ? O.o |
| 10:19 | <SmatZ> | :-P |
| 10:19 | <Yorick> | ") |
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| 10:25 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | you have strange eyes |
| 10:26 | -!- | DEFACKTwalker [~DEFACKTwa@i3ED6DB6D.versanet.de] has joined #openttd |
| 10:26 | <DEFACKTwalker> | hi all |
| 10:26 | <DEFACKTwalker> | is anyome here? |
| 10:27 | <Yorick> | no |
| 10:27 | <DEFACKTwalker> | ... |
| 10:27 | <Yorick> | and the 103 others aren't here either |
| 10:27 | <murr4y> | no i haven't seen anyome in a while |
| 10:27 | -!- | nzvip [~svip@AToulon-151-1-86-252.w86-197.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] |
| 10:27 | <Yorick> | 102* |
| 10:28 | <DEFACKTwalker> | okay, cYa |
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| 10:28 | <BrDead> | ... |
| 10:29 | <Yorick> | :D |
| 10:32 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | this is ever so funny ;) |
| 10:33 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | "hi, is this the maths channel, where you can ask about maths?" |
| 10:33 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | "no, this is a CS-Clan channel called 'maths'" |
| 10:33 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | "ok, bye" |
| 10:35 | <BrDead> | I just can't understand why there are so many ircnets for open source communities, isn't just one enough? |
| 10:36 | <BrDead> | I knew freenode already, I heard about OFTC first time when I joined here :) |
| 10:36 | <BrDead> | and probably there are many others too |
| 10:37 | <SmatZ> | BrDead: maybe #oftc is a good place where to ask |
| 10:37 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | this "isn't just one enough" comes up ever so often all over the place |
| 10:38 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | openttd vs. ttdpatch |
| 10:38 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | gnome vs. kde |
| 10:38 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | oftc vs. freenode |
| 10:38 | <Yorick> | freenode vs. devnode |
| 10:38 | <hylje> | vim is superior |
| 10:38 | -!- | [1]Mark [~Mark@5351EE62.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd |
| 10:38 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | yes, i was getting to that ;) |
| 10:39 | <SmatZ> | yay notepad! |
| 10:39 | <BrDead> | SmatZ: maybe, I was just wondering... :) |
| 10:39 | -!- | Mark [~Mark@5351EE62.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] |
| 10:39 | -!- | [1][1]Mark is now known as Mark |
| 10:39 | <BrDead> | I'm not a linux geek but maybe that's the reason why I can't find that so reasonable :) |
| 10:40 | <SmatZ> | BrDead: it has a good side - IRC servers limit the number of channels you can join... |
| 10:40 | <SmatZ> | when you are at more networks, you can join more channels :) |
| 10:41 | <Yorick> | they do?! |
| 10:41 | <SmatZ> | Yorick: yes, at least quakenet had limit ~25 channels |
| 10:41 | <SmatZ> | I don't remember, but I know I reached it... |
| 10:41 | <SmatZ> | though you can connect under multiple nicks :) |
| 10:42 | <Yorick> | they block that for my IP |
| 10:42 | <BrDead> | SmatZ: yeah, but I think that if you have a need to join more than 25 channels you might have some other problems too than that :D |
| 10:43 | <BrDead> | meaning that in that point getting a life would be a better solution :) |
| 10:43 | <SmatZ> | BrDead: well... probably it is this way for historical reasons (that I don't know :-) |
| 10:44 | <BrDead> | SmatZ: in most cases that's the way |
| 10:44 | -!- | nzvip [~svip@AToulon-151-1-182-154.w90-4.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd |
| 10:44 | <Yorick> | what happenes if I do p->Recv_uint8(); while there isn't anything to Recv anymore? |
| 10:44 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | <SmatZ> though you can connect under multiple nicks :) <- except if you use t-online ;) |
| 10:44 | <Yorick> | or wanadoo |
| 10:45 | <SmatZ> | Yorick: probably it will wait |
| 10:46 | <Yorick> | hmm |
| 10:46 | <Yorick> | is there any way to check if there is anything to recv then? |
| 10:47 | -!- | UnderBuilder [~chatzilla@168.226.105.38] has joined #openttd |
| 10:47 | <SmatZ> | most likely there is |
| 10:52 | <SmatZ> | NetworkReceive() uses select() |
| 10:52 | <SmatZ> | with zero timeout |
| 10:52 | <SmatZ> | to check if there is any packet waiting |
| 10:58 | -!- | Alberth [~hat@a82-95-164-127.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd |
| 11:04 | <Yorick> | I just broke something |
| 11:04 | <Gonozal_VIII> | use a cast |
| 11:05 | <Yorick> | I broke everything that has to do with PACKET_CLIENT_SET_NAME |
| 11:05 | <Yorick> | and I'm not sure about the cause yet |
| 11:05 | <Yorick> | the client list just fails with a spritecache error |
| 11:05 | <Gonozal_VIII> | cast |
| 11:05 | <Gonozal_VIII> | :-) |
| 11:06 | <Gonozal_VIII> | that's what you use if something is broken |
| 11:06 | -!- | a1270 [~Cheese@24-117-88-79.cpe.cableone.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
| 11:06 | <Yorick> | it fails to transmit the first char |
| 11:07 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | yeah, just cast everything to void* and you never have type errors anymore ;) |
| 11:07 | <Yorick> | it swapped the name and the language somehow, I think |
| 11:07 | <Yorick> | how much can a packet actually contain? |
| 11:08 | -!- | Washu [DB@jamesh.serverhouse.co.uk] has joined #openttd |
| 11:08 | <Yorick> | a char[80] and uint8? |
| 11:08 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | truebrain is the network expert, i believe |
| 11:08 | <Yorick> | and not here |
| 11:08 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | @seen truebrain |
| 11:08 | <@DorpsGek> | Eddi|zuHause2: truebrain was last seen in #openttd 4 weeks, 5 days, 16 hours, 14 minutes, and 39 seconds ago: <TrueBrain> night :) |
| 11:09 | <Yorick> | now try /whois TrueBrain on the other hand |
| 11:10 | -!- | Phoenix_the_II [rdeboom@home.deboom.biz] has joined #openttd |
| 11:11 | -!- | Jortuny [~octernion@r253186120.resnet.cornell.edu] has joined #openttd |
| 11:13 | <Alberth> | Yorick: I think it can; it depends on the MTU, which is for my eth0 1500 |
| 11:14 | <Alberth> | Yorick: although I don't know whether that number includes or excludes checksums etc |
| 11:14 | <Yorick> | so it could be not-possible? |
| 11:15 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | MTU should have nothing to do with it... larger high-level packets are just split into several low-level packets |
| 11:16 | <Alberth> | Wikipedia says it is without, ie you have MTU bytes available for use |
| 11:16 | <Alberth> | Eddi: Not if you are using UDP |
| 11:17 | -!- | a1270 [~Cheese@24-117-88-79.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd |
| 11:17 | <Yorick> | using TCP |
| 11:17 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | you deserve a giant slap for this unqualified statement |
| 11:18 | * | Yorick slaps Alberth's bottom and grins cheekily |
| 11:18 | -!- | Washu [DB@jamesh.serverhouse.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Bye for now!] |
| 11:18 | <Alberth> | Auts! |
| 11:20 | <Alberth> | Well, you started over packet sizes... :P |
| 11:20 | <Yorick> | because it fails |
| 11:20 | <Alberth> | s/over/talking about/ |
| 11:22 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | # Der Wolf, das Lamm ... HURZ |
| 11:22 | <Yorick> | :o wait-wrong order of recv-ing |
| 11:23 | -!- | stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.ip.telfort.nl] has joined #openttd |
| 11:23 | <Alberth> | So the network is byte order-preserving :) |
| 11:24 | <Yorick> | true |
| 11:26 | <+glx> | and it is endian safe too |
| 11:27 | -!- | mikl [~mikl@0304ds2-ba.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Quit: mikl] |
| 11:27 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | a friend of mine had huge endian issues when trying to construct a CRC for his packet (on an FPGA) |
| 11:27 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | he somehow had to reverse the bytes |
| 11:27 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | and then he had to reverse the bits in each nibble |
| 11:28 | <Prof_Frink> | Eddi|zuHause2: Huge Endian? Is that like Big Endian, but biggerer? |
| 11:28 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | yes, bigerererer |
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| 11:29 | -!- | anhedral is now known as dih |
| 11:31 | <Yorick> | hello dih |
| 11:31 | <dih> | hell... oh |
| 11:31 | <dih> | ^^ |
| 11:32 | <Yorick> | :( |
| 11:33 | * | dih pats yorick on the head |
| 11:33 | <dih> |
