| --- | Log | opened Sun Mar 09 00:00:29 2008 |
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| 04:39 | <Wolf01> | hello |
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| 04:39 | <yorick> | hello |
| 04:40 | <Gonozal_VIII> | nobody here |
| 04:44 | <yorick> | nope |
| 04:45 | <Gekz> | OH GOD A DOUBLE NEGATIVE |
| 04:45 | <Gekz> | 2 - 3 = negative fnu |
| 04:45 | <Gekz> | fun |
| 04:46 | <yorick> | -1 |
| 04:46 | <Gekz> | no kid. |
| 04:46 | <yorick> | -2? |
| 04:47 | <Gekz> | 0 = -1 |
| 04:47 | <Gonozal_VIII> | ~0 |
| 04:48 | <Gonozal_VIII> | or something like that^^ |
| 04:49 | <Gekz> | lol |
| 04:49 | <Gonozal_VIII> | 0 = -1 is obviously wrong^^ |
| 04:49 | <Gekz> | no. |
| 04:49 | <Gekz> | the test was wrong |
| 04:49 | <Gekz> | :D |
| 04:50 | <Gekz> | they put the x's in the wrong place |
| 04:50 | <Gekz> | so I cancelled them out |
| 04:50 | <Gonozal_VIII> | 0 = -1 is wrong becaus you can't call a variable "0" :-) |
| 04:50 | <yorick> | NULL |
| 04:51 | <Gonozal_VIII> | therefore you can't give that variable the value -1 |
| 04:51 | <yorick> | -ONE |
| 04:51 | <Gonozal_VIII> | fyi, null is german for 0 |
| 04:52 | <Gonozal_VIII> | that's where that comes from ;-) |
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| 04:53 | -!- | Purno [~Purno@5357D37C.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd |
| 04:53 | <yorick> | hello Purno |
| 04:53 | <Purno> | ey |
| 04:53 | <Gonozal_VIII> | hi |
| 04:56 | <yorick> | I'm modifying the move patch so it it is desync-proof |
| 05:00 | -!- | yorick is now known as Yorick|AFK |
| 05:00 | <ln-> | Yorick|AFK: NO AWAY NICKS |
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| 05:16 | -!- | Yorick|AFK is now known as Yorick |
| 05:16 | <Yorick> | ln- where exactly is that in the rules? |
| 05:17 | <hylje> | unwritten |
| 05:17 | <hylje> | common courtesy |
| 05:17 | <ln-> | common sense |
| 05:18 | <Yorick> | *sheep* *baaah* |
| 05:18 | <hylje> | rams are awesomer than sheep |
| 05:18 | <Yorick> | more awesome* |
| 05:19 | <hylje> | nitpicking |
| 05:19 | <Yorick> | I do not believe in common sense |
| 05:19 | <ln-> | Yorick: the IRC protocol has the away functionality, use that one. |
| 05:20 | * | Yorick ignores ln- |
| 05:20 | <ln-> | Yorick: no one cares if you are AFK or eating or showering or sleeping or in the toilet. no need to publicly announce those. |
| 05:21 | <Prof_Frink> | And a good client will automagically mark you as away when you detach or lock its screen session |
| 05:21 | <Yorick> | automagically?! |
| 05:21 | <Prof_Frink> | yes. |
| 05:22 | <Prof_Frink> | Automatically, with magic. |
| 05:22 | <Yorick> | aha |
| 05:23 | -!- | reldred [~reldred@d58-104-48-175.dsl.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd |
| 05:24 | <ln-> | Yorick: you aren't really ignoring me, are you? |
| 05:24 | <Yorick> | ignoring who? |
| 05:37 | <Gonozal_VIII> | let's all ignore everybody, that will be fun :D |
| 05:39 | <Gonozal_VIII> | yay ignoring fungame |
| 05:39 | <Yorick> | yay |
| 05:42 | * | Gonozal_VIII has lots of fun |
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| 06:08 | <Yorick> | @base 16 10 0xFF |
| 06:08 | <@DorpsGek> | Yorick: 255 |
| 06:08 | <Yorick> | why does INVALID_PLAYER equal PLAYER_SPECTATOR? |
| 06:08 | <Gonozal_VIII> | you really needed dorpsgek for that? |
| 06:08 | <Yorick> | to check |
| 06:09 | * | Yorick isn't nfo coder |
| 06:09 | <Gonozal_VIII> | spectator can't own anything |
| 06:09 | <Yorick> | ok, using PLAYER_INVALID as NOT_BEING_MOVED value isn't gonna work that way |
| 06:10 | <Yorick> | but what should I use then? |
| 06:12 | <Yorick> | 9? |
| 06:12 | <Gonozal_VIII> | not being moved? |
| 06:12 | <Gonozal_VIII> | negative stuff sucks |
| 06:12 | <Gonozal_VIII> | bad style :P |
| 06:12 | <Yorick> | you always need a default value... |
| 06:13 | <ln-> | why? |
| 06:13 | <Gonozal_VIII> | default = the rest |
| 06:14 | <Yorick> | if a client is being moved, the server asks for a confirmation to the client, meanwhile, it stores the company in being_moved_to |
| 06:14 | <Gonozal_VIII> | then why would you need a not being moved thingy? |
| 06:15 | <Yorick> | because rule #1, never trust the client |
| 06:15 | <Gonozal_VIII> | every player that's not in being moved to doesn't get moved |
| 06:15 | <Yorick> | no, but he could send a false confirmation |
| 06:15 | <Gonozal_VIII> | then he will desync some time later |
| 06:16 | <Yorick> | no, if he sends a false confirmation, the server has to have a way to know if it has send a request to the client |
| 06:16 | <Gonozal_VIII> | huh? |
| 06:19 | <Gonozal_VIII> | in your system server saves player id, sends request to that player, gets confirmation, compares confirmation with stored player id and then moves... i see no need for any not being moved stuff ther |
| 06:19 | <Gonozal_VIII> | e |
| 06:20 | <Gonozal_VIII> | or did i misunderstand it? |
| 06:21 | <Yorick> | but if client sends confirmation without server sending request, server can't know it and tries to move client |
| 06:21 | <Yorick> | now I think of it, clients have no problem with being moved to spectator when false confirmation |
| 06:22 | <Gonozal_VIII> | why? it just has to look if the player id is the one it saved before |
| 06:22 | <Yorick> | yes |
| 06:22 | <Yorick> | but after that |
| 06:22 | <Yorick> | the client could send another confirmation |
| 06:22 | <Gonozal_VIII> | ah, spectators don't have an id |
| 06:23 | <Gonozal_VIII> | anyways... why should they confirm it? |
| 06:23 | <Gonozal_VIII> | they don't confirm a kick either^^ |
| 06:25 | <Yorick> | no, but moving is different |
| 06:25 | <Gonozal_VIII> | why? |
| 06:25 | <Yorick> | if the client sends a command between the change on the server and the change on the client, the server thinks the client is cheating |
| 06:25 | <Yorick> | because it has a different playerid with the docommand |
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| 06:26 | <Gonozal_VIII> | i don't think that matters |
| 06:27 | <Yorick> | it does |
| 06:27 | <Gonozal_VIII> | that's some split seconds |
| 06:27 | <Yorick> | it does |
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| 06:27 | <Yorick> | in theory, it could let all other clients desync |
| 06:27 | <Yorick> | which is bad |
| 06:27 | <Gonozal_VIII> | if the client built something in that time it will just appear in the old company |
| 06:27 | <LordAzamath> | hloe |
| 06:28 | <Yorick> | no, Gonozal |
| 06:28 | <Yorick> | it won't |
| 06:28 | <Yorick> | because the server has checks to prevent clients from building in other companies |
| 06:28 | <Yorick> | and if a command gets executed on the client, but not on the server, you get different amounts of random usage |
| 06:29 | <Gonozal_VIII> | well... then don't build when you're moved |
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| 06:29 | <Yorick> | moving can happan against will |
| 06:29 | <Yorick> | happen* |
| 06:29 | <Gonozal_VIII> | i think the chance is very low |
| 06:30 | <Gonozal_VIII> | and if it happens, the client desyncs and has to join again... not that much of a problem |
| 06:30 | <Yorick> | with slow connections... |
| 06:30 | <Vikthor> | Yorick: Can't you send info before you actually move that client? |
| 06:30 | <Yorick> | thats the way how I do it now |
| 06:30 | <Gonozal_VIII> | or pause the game |
| 06:31 | <Yorick> | Gonozal_VIII: but, if the server has already queued the commands, and then sends them to the clients, while they're invalid... |
| 06:31 | <Yorick> | all clients will refuse to execute that command while the server has already done it, which results in a desync for all clients |
| 06:32 | <Gonozal_VIII> | then drop queued commands of a client if you move it |
| 06:32 | <Yorick> | will result in that client desyncs |
| 06:32 | <Vikthor> | Gonozal_VIII: I am afraid that will affect Random |
| 06:33 | <Gonozal_VIII> | yes, but won't affect the others |
| 06:33 | <Vikthor> | Gonozal_VIII: But that's bad design |
| 06:33 | <Yorick> | keeping random things in mind is very difficult, because it's very...random |
| 06:34 | <Gonozal_VIII> | in what situations would you move clients around? |
| 06:34 | <Gonozal_VIII> | without telling them first |
| 06:34 | <Yorick> | in situations where they sabotage companies |
| 06:34 | <Yorick> | cheat |
| 06:34 | <Gonozal_VIII> | and is it really that bad if they desync then? |
| 06:34 | <Yorick> | no, but it is if other clients will |
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| 06:35 | <Gonozal_VIII> | others won't, if you drop the commands of that client |
| 06:35 | <Vikthor> | Gonozal_VIII: But then there is now need for moving, you can kick him riht away |
| 06:35 | <Yorick> | that could affect random |
| 06:36 | <Yorick> | because, AFAIK, the commands are already executed on the server |
| 06:36 | <Gonozal_VIII> | the chance that he really sent something in those split seconds is very low imho |
| 06:36 | <Yorick> | it doesn't have to be split seconds |
| 06:37 | <Yorick> | if I was a sabotager that wanted to desync other clients while being moved, I would make auto-bribe-on-move |
| 06:37 | <LordAzamath> | is tyhere any special reason why in TTDP signals face the other way than in OpenTTD? |
| 06:38 | <Yorick> | because you can ajust it in ottd |
| 06:38 | <Gonozal_VIII> | how should he know when he will be moved? he only knows that after it happened |
| 06:38 | <Gonozal_VIII> | what do you mean face the other way la? |
| 06:38 | <Yorick> | Gonozal_VIII: just before the client is moved, he recieves a PACKET_CLIENT_MOVE |
| 06:38 | <Yorick> | for him to disable buttons asap |
| 06:38 | <Vikthor> | Yorick: Just send to the client "you are being moved", wait for him to acknowledge it, procces any commands you got meanwhile and the move him |
| 06:39 | <Yorick> | that is how I do it now |
| 06:39 | <Vikthor> | And where is the problem? |
| 06:39 | <@peter1138> | LordAzamath, 'face the other way'? What? |
| 06:40 | <Yorick> | with my new one, there isn't |
| 06:40 | <LordAzamath> | Gonozal_VIII, the signal which is faced to me is on the other side of rail in TTDP and OTTD |
| 06:40 | <Yorick> | with the old implementation, there is what I just described |
| 06:40 | <Vikthor> | aha |
| 06:40 | <Gonozal_VIII> | there's a signals on driver side patch setting |
| 06:41 | <LordAzamath> | ok.. didn't know :P |
| 06:41 | <LordAzamath> | and it's default in open? |
| 06:41 | <@peter1138> | Ah, 'face the other way' is not quite the same is 'on the opposite side' |
| 06:41 | <LordAzamath> | well.. peter1138 signals on one side of rail face the other side :P |
| 06:42 | <LordAzamath> | way** |
| 06:42 | <SpComb> | move who where? :o |
| 06:42 | <@peter1138> | Yes, that's not what you said originally ;) |
| 06:42 | <LordAzamath> | you there |
| 06:42 | <@peter1138> | The patch option defaults on. |
| 06:42 | <@peter1138> | And makes no difference if your drive-side is left. |
| 06:42 | <@peter1138> | As it should be. |
| 06:43 | <Gonozal_VIII> | should not |
| 06:43 | <Yorick> | now, there is a problem with my implementation |
| 06:43 | <Prof_Frink> | should too |
| 06:43 | <@peter1138> | Also, I've been robbed. My boss gave me his old wireless mouse but the scroll wheel doesn't work properly. |
| 06:43 | <Gonozal_VIII> | only crater people drive left |
| 06:43 | <Prof_Frink> | *greater |
| 06:43 | <Gonozal_VIII> | crater :P |
| 06:43 | <Yorick> | the problem is that clients can choose NOT to send a confirmation |
| 06:43 | <Yorick> | so they can't be moved |
| 06:43 | <Prof_Frink> | Gonozal_VIII: You are wrong. |
| 06:44 | <Gonozal_VIII> | yesyes, i know... some strange misleaded other people drive left too |
| 06:44 | <Vikthor> | Yorick: Then set some timeout, after which confirmation is implied |
| 06:44 | <Prof_Frink> | We are English, and therefore right about *everything*. |
| 06:44 | <SpComb> | peter1138: sue him |
| 06:45 | <@peter1138> | I shalL! |
| 06:45 | <Vikthor> | Prof_Frink: Would you care to prove it? |
| 06:45 | <Prof_Frink> | I don't need to. |
| 06:45 | <@peter1138> | Hmm, maybe setting up a road tranfer from a farm to the nearest station wasn't such a good idea. |
| 06:46 | <@peter1138> | The frequent loading has caused the farm's output to explode :o |
| 06:48 | <Gonozal_VIII> | strange, usually trucks have lower rating |
| 06:48 | <Yorick> | Vikthos: how do I set one? |
| 06:49 | <Vikthor> | honestly I do not know, I would have to take deeper look on the protocol |
| 06:50 | <Yorick> | I don't even think its possible |
| 06:50 | <Yorick> | without hacking into loops |
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| 07:05 | <LordAzamath> | euck.. I hate when TTDPatch gives me crashes |
| 07:05 | * | LordAzamath stays to OpenTTD :P |
| 07:08 | <@peter1138> | with |
| 07:09 | <@peter1138> | Gonozal_VIII, it's a short run, so they're calling often. A train would sit there waiting a while for full-load. |
| 07:09 | <Gonozal_VIII> | rating goes up while loading too |
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| 07:14 | <Forked> | meep |
| 07:14 | <Yorick> | meep |
| 07:15 | <Gonozal_VIII> | you're meeping |
| 07:18 | <SpComb> | Bjarni! |
| 07:18 | <Gonozal_VIII> | there's no bjarni |
| 07:19 | <SpComb> | that's no reason not to.... Bjarni! |
| 07:19 | <Gonozal_VIII> | there is! |
| 07:19 | <Yorick> | Bjarni! |
| 07:19 | <Gonozal_VIII> | you're violating my copyright |
| 07:20 | <SpComb> | do you mean to say that "Bjarni!" constitutes a copyrightable work? |
| 07:20 | <SpComb> | it's more of a trademark, and afaik nobody has registered it |
| 07:21 | * | SpComb ponders doing so |
| 07:24 | * | peter1138 ponders banning it. |
| 07:24 | <Yorick> | peter1138! |
| 07:24 | <@peter1138> | Yes? |
| 07:25 | <Yorick> | please don't |
| 07:25 | <Yorick> | you coudl ban Gonozal_VIII with that |
| 07:25 | <Gonozal_VIII> | :P |
| 07:25 | <Gonozal_VIII> | it's my invention! |
| 07:25 | <Yorick> | havily used on #? |
| 07:27 | <@peter1138> | I |
| 07:27 | <@peter1138> | I'd only ban annoying people. |
| 07:27 | <Yorick> | am I annoying people |
| 07:27 | <Yorick> | ? |
| 07:29 | <Gonozal_VIII> | only while you're here, the rest of the time you're ok :-) |
| 07:30 | <Yorick> | how do you know? |
| 07:30 | <Gonozal_VIII> | because nobody can see you then :-) |
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| 08:14 | <Yorick> | hmm...what shall I set as inactivity limit |
| 08:14 | <Ammller> | devs, I have an idea, how it would be possible to allow rivers. |
| 08:15 | <Yorick> | did you already check the lively rivers draft? |
| 08:15 | <Ammller> | Yorick: do you think that will be in 0.6? |
| 08:16 | <Gonozal_VIII> | i don't think there will be any new feature in 0.6 |
| 08:16 | <Ammller> | well rivers is nre, its just buggy |
| 08:16 | <Yorick> | anyone has to make a patch for it first |
| 08:17 | <Gonozal_VIII> | not really buggy... just incomplete |
| 08:17 | <Ammller> | you could make it depense on town names |
| 08:17 | <@peter1138> | Ammller: bugs.openttd.org |
| 08:17 | <Gonozal_VIII> | town names? i don't understand what you mean |
| 08:17 | <Ammller> | if you choose "Swiss", its allowed to build rivers. |
| 08:17 | <Yorick> | :o? |
| 08:17 | <Gonozal_VIII> | wtf^^ |
| 08:18 | <Ammller> | because reason, why they didn't inlcude it, is "unrealistic". |
| 08:18 | <Ammller> | in our country, its unrealistic to build canals |
| 08:18 | <Gonozal_VIII> | oh... i thought you were german |
| 08:18 | <Yorick> | and it isn't unrealistic to build rivers, you say? |
| 08:19 | <Gonozal_VIII> | sorry for that |
| 08:19 | <Ammller> | Gonozal_VIII: :) |
| 08:21 | <SmatZ> | [13:17:44][13:17:44] <Ammller> if you choose "Swiss", its allowed to build rivers. <- :-D |
| 08:22 | <Ammller> | hmm, maybe there are other countries? |
| 08:23 | <Ammller> | I know only Holland and German isn't. |
| 08:26 | <Gonozal_VIII> | a lot of rivers here were turned into canals to get more room... |
| 08:26 | * | peter1138 still wonders what the bugs referred to are... |
| 08:26 | <Gonozal_VIII> | that you can't build rivers ingame |
| 08:27 | <@peter1138> | Well that's not a bug. |
| 08:27 | <Gonozal_VIII> | i think that's what he was talking about |
| 08:28 | <Gonozal_VIII> | btw ammler, how do you talk if you talk to germans? |
| 08:29 | <Ammller> | english or german, why? |
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| 08:29 | <Ammller> | same as you, I assume :-) |
| 08:29 | <Gonozal_VIII> | well... i guess they could understand 90% or something anyways... just leave out the weird words^^ |
| 08:30 | <Ammller> | its not only words |
| 08:31 | <Gonozal_VIII> | what else? |
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| 08:32 | <Ammller> | grammer, but mine isn't documented |
| 08:32 | <Ammller> | I guess, its only possible to lear züri-swiss-german |
| 08:32 | <Ammller> | learn |
| 08:32 | <Gonozal_VIII> | grammar isn't very important to understand the meaning |
| 08:33 | <Ammller> | well, maybe they just don't want understand us :-) |
| 08:33 | <Gonozal_VIII> | hehe |
| 08:33 | <Yorick> | its the difference between man eats dog and dog eats man! |
| 08:33 | <Gonozal_VIII> | it's funny to see swiss tv with german subtitles |
| 08:34 | <Ammller> | well for austria tis nearly able to understand swiss german |
| 08:34 | <Ammller> | at least for "Voralberg" |
| 08:34 | <Gonozal_VIII> | they talk almost the same in the western part |
| 08:34 | <Gonozal_VIII> | yes |
| 08:35 | <@peter1138> | "I helped my uncle Jack off the horse." |
| 08:35 | <Ammller> | you aren't from there, then? |
| 08:35 | <Yorick> | nah, not original, peter1138 |
| 08:36 | <Gonozal_VIII> | nope, if you draw a rectangular box around austria, i would be almost exactly in the middle^^ |
| 08:36 | <Gekz> | peter1138: you cant help but corrupt our minds |
| 08:36 | <Gonozal_VIII> | you shouldn't use uppercase there peter |
| 08:37 | <Ammller> | hehe Kitzbühl? |
| 08:37 | <Gonozal_VIII> | hmmm not really^^ |
| 08:37 | <Gonozal_VIII> | maybe the box thingy is wrong... did never actually check that |
| 08:38 | <Ammller> | oh, I didn't either |
| 08:38 | <Ammller> | but we drove through there many times in past |
| 08:38 | <Ammller> | to go to Lainach (Mölltal) |
| 08:39 | <Ammller> | almost yearly |
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| 08:44 | <Gonozal_VIII> | checked the rectangle stuff now^^ |
| 08:44 | <Gonozal_VIII> | the middle is in salzburg, so a little bit too far west |
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| 08:44 | <Gonozal_VIII> | and north |
| 08:45 | <Gonozal_VIII> | but not much :-) |
| 08:45 | <Ammller> | Austria is country of openttd INs :-P |
| 08:46 | <Gonozal_VIII> | it's not Gonozal_VIIIIN :P |
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| 08:50 | <Ammller> | well, we wait for RC to fix that river bug ;-) |
| 08:50 | <Yorick> | what river bug |
| 08:51 | <Prof_Frink> | *that* river bug. |
| 08:51 | <Ammller> | I am the onlyone, see it that way. |
| 08:51 | <Ammller> | so, I have no chance to have that fixed :-) |
| 08:53 | <Gonozal_VIII> | you have |
| 08:53 | <Gonozal_VIII> | write a patch |
| 08:53 | <LordAzamath> | :o |
| 08:53 | <Gonozal_VIII> | and while you're at it, write the whole lively river stuff ;-) |
| 08:53 | <Ammller> | well, it will not be commited before branch for 0.6 is made |
| 08:53 | <Prof_Frink> | Or, continually annoy peter1138 until it's done. |
| 08:54 | <Gonozal_VIII> | nooooo bad idea |
| 08:54 | <Gonozal_VIII> | that would delay 0.6 |
| 08:54 | <Prof_Frink> | peter1138! NewRelease! |
| 08:55 | <Gekz> | SEX |
| 08:55 | <Ammller> | well, not sure what more annoying, asking for fixing a bug or for release :P |
| 08:55 | <Prof_Frink> | That's what she said. |
| 08:55 | <Gonozal_VIII> | yes, bug him about working faster on the release instead |
| 08:55 | <Vikthor> | Ammller: It's not bug it's lack of features |
| 08:55 | <Ammller> | Vikthor: well, its not lack, its too much feature :-) |
| 08:56 | <Vikthor> | Than you see, it's not a bug it's feature :D |
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| 08:59 | <Forked> | hmm |
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| 08:59 | <Prof_Frink> | Oh no, a Llobster! |
| 09:00 | <Forked> | just not used to having hilight triggered here.. |
| 09:01 | * | peter1138 tescoinates |
| 09:02 | <Prof_Frink> | TESCO |
| 09:08 | <Ammller> | LordAzamath: did you get Feedback about opengfx from current ps game? |
| 09:09 | <Yorick> | oh noes |
| 09:09 | <Yorick> | a nobster |
| 09:09 | <Yorick> | lobster* |
| 09:10 | <Yorick> | that one should take m out of his quit message |
| 09:10 | <Yorick> | me |
| 09:11 | <LordAzamath> | Ammller, well.. One thing to the thread :P |
| 09:11 | <LordAzamath> | the snow |
| 09:11 | <LordAzamath> | and I don't remember the others :P |
| 09:12 | <LordAzamath> | is it possible to check vehicle speed with var2? |
| 09:12 | <LordAzamath> | actually, make decision based on speed |
| 09:12 | <LordAzamath> | vehicle speed* |
| 09:13 | <@peter1138> | Course it is |
| 09:13 | <@peter1138> | Assuming you mean varaction 2 |
| 09:13 | <LordAzamath> | yes |
| 09:14 | <LordAzamath> | I didn't find it from vehicle info |
| 09:14 | <@peter1138> | property 0xB4 |
| 09:14 | <LordAzamath> | argh |
| 09:14 | * | LordAzamath never looks to that table |
| 09:15 | <Patrick`> | hmmph |
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| 11:11 | <dih> | :-) |
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| 11:13 | <Yorick> | hello dih |
| 11:13 | <dih> | hi |
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| 11:15 | <Yorick> | I've worked out the PACKET_SERVER_MOVE_REQ and PACKET_CLIENT_MOVE_OK things, only thing I need now is a timeout |
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| 11:19 | <Yorick> | I could for example check, if a DoCommand executing frame is higher than the time the PACKET_SERVER_MOVE_REQ has been sent |
| 11:19 | <Yorick> | or a sync... |
| 11:20 | <Vikthor> | Can't you set the timeout for say 10 frames, or somthing like that? |
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| 11:21 | <Yorick> | if you tell me how |
| 11:21 | <dih> | Yorick: what do you do on the client |
| 11:22 | <dih> | send a PACKET_CLIENT_MOVE_OK right after it moved itself? |
| 11:22 | <Yorick> | yes |
| 11:22 | <dih> | nice |
| 11:22 | <dih> | so - what if i dont send that packet? |
| 11:22 | <Yorick> | ..., only thing I need now is a timeout.... |
| 11:22 | <dih> | what happens if i 'timeout' |
| 11:23 | <Yorick> | the move will be sent to the other clients and executed on the server |
| 11:23 | <dih> | after timeout? |
| 11:23 | <Yorick> | yes |
| 11:23 | <dih> | then set timeout to the amount of frames a client may be slow |
| 11:24 | <Yorick> | I do not even know how to set the timeout |
| 11:24 | <Yorick> | something with the frameloop |
| 11:24 | <Yorick> | probably ^^ |
| 11:27 | <Yorick> | I'll find out ^^ |
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| 11:32 | <Yorick> | pff...I need to know how to count from 1 to 10 in chinese before tomorrow |
| 11:32 | <Gonozal_VIII> | that's easy |
| 11:32 | <Yorick> | is it? |
| 11:32 | <Gonozal_VIII> | you start at the chinese 1 and stop at the chinese 10 |
| 11:32 | <Gonozal_VIII> | :-) |
| 11:33 | <Yorick> | I need to know how to write and say all numbers in a range from 1 to 10 |
| 11:33 | <Gonozal_VIII> | pff google it |
| 11:33 | <SmatZ> | yeah |
| 11:33 | <Yorick> | I have it in front of me |
| 11:33 | <Gonozal_VIII> | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_numerals |
| 11:33 | <Yorick> | I only need to write them now |
| 11:34 | <Yorick> | ? :o |
| 11:35 | <Yorick> | I can't copy them :( |
| 11:35 | <Gonozal_VIII> | there's even an animation how to draw it |
| 11:36 | <Yorick> | I know how to draw them, but remembering it is something totaly else when you're not chinese |
| 11:38 | <Yorick> | %E6%8D%8C :o |
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| 11:49 | <dih> | CS:S players here? |
| 11:49 | <Gonozal_VIII> | [16:46:44][16:46:44] <Gonozal_VIII> anyways, japanese is way cooler than chinese |
| 11:49 | <Yorick> | that is a dangerous question |
| 11:50 | <Yorick> | I now have a satanic version of me hunting me |
| 11:50 | <Yorick> | no its not, Gonozal_VIII |
| 11:50 | <Gonozal_VIII> | is too! |
| 11:50 | <Gonozal_VIII> | all those anime are in japanese! |
| 11:50 | <Yorick> | true |
| 11:51 | <Yorick> | Chinese don't make stupid anime |
| 11:51 | <Gonozal_VIII> | stupid :O |
| 11:51 | <SmatZ> | chinese make fine cloathes |
| 11:51 | <Yorick> | ok, say some anime that is not stupid |
| 11:52 | <Gonozal_VIII> | megami-sama :D |
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| 11:52 | <dih> | stupid |
| 11:52 | <fjb> | Hello |
| 11:52 | <fjb> | !logs |
| 11:52 | <SpComb> | Logs: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd |
| 11:52 | <dih> | :-) |
| 11:53 | <Gonozal_VIII> | naaaaaah belldandy ftw! |
| 11:54 | <fjb> | <sing> I like chinese, they only grow up to your knees </sing> |
| 11:55 | <Yorick> | true |
| 11:55 | <Patrick`> | mmm |
| 11:55 | <Yorick> | the longest people on earth compared to the shortest :) |
| 11:55 | <Yorick> | its like a sea of black hair |
| 11:57 | <fjb> | Hm, the train reversing (push / pull service) has a big design flaw. :-( |
| 12:04 | <+glx> | fjb: it is newgrf dependant |
| 12:04 | <Ammller> | hoja, does that already work in ottd? |
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| 12:05 | <fjb> | Has the grf the ability to reverse the whole train? I thought it can only exchange the sprites of the first and last vehicle in a train. |
| 12:05 | <fjb> | Ammller: It does. |
| 12:05 | <Yorick> | :o |
| 12:05 | <Yorick> | since? |
| 12:05 | <Ammller> | so you have a "hacked" canadian set? |
| 12:05 | <fjb> | No. |
| 12:05 | <Ammller> | or is there an other set? |
| 12:06 | <fjb> | Yes. |
| 12:06 | <+glx> | the grf can do that if it tests the right things |
| 12:06 | <Yorick> | since? |
| 12:06 | <Ammller> | fjb: and which one :-) |
| 12:06 | <+glx> | Yorick: since var FE bit 8 is implemented |
| 12:06 | <fjb> | The UKRS exchanges first and last vehicle and turns that vehicles around. |
| 12:06 | <Yorick> | oh, that one |
| 12:07 | <fjb> | But the wagons beside the first and the last in the train still reverse. |
| 12:09 | <fjb> | A push/pull train entering a terminal station with the locomotive first leaves it with the locomotive last and the driving wagon first. But the other wagons in the train still behave like the not push pull trains. At least that is the behavioour of UKRS. |
| 12:11 | <fjb> | Put a wagon with a different color in the train, not as the first or last wagon, but also not as the middle of the train, so that the train looks asymetrical. You see that onle locomotive and driving wagon exchange places. |
| 12:12 | <fjb> | A different colored wagon in the last part of the train jumps to the first part of the train then. |
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| 12:14 | <fjb> | Can the GRF fix that? Or is that a flaw of the of the var FE bit 8 specification? |
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| 12:26 | <Eddi|zuHause> | it should be done totally different |
| 12:26 | <Eddi|zuHause> | most natural way would be a negative speed... |
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| 12:29 | <Eddi|zuHause> | anyway, the game urgently needs to get rid of the concept of a "front engine" |
| 12:30 | <Eddi|zuHause> | there is a "front" and an "engine", they don't need to coincide |
| 12:31 | <+glx> | <fjb> Can the GRF fix that? Or is that a flaw of the of the var FE bit 8 specification? <-- a grf can fix it I think, like it does for the first and last |
| 12:31 | <Eddi|zuHause> | yes, but it is horribly complicated |
| 12:32 | <+glx> | lot of action 2 :) |
| 12:35 | <Eddi|zuHause> | the purpose of a grf is for the designer not to need to know about the implementation... this feature totally fails that design principle |
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| 12:36 | <Ammller> | fjb: maybe you should "hack" canada train set and look how it works on openttd |
| 12:36 | <Eddi|zuHause> | what the grf feature really needs is a flag "this vehicle can be at the front of a train" and "this vehicle has speed limit X when driving forwards, and Y when driving backwards" |
| 12:38 | <Ammller> | "this vehicle can be at the front of a train" <-- is that needed? |
| 12:38 | <Eddi|zuHause> | yes, you cannot drive a train backwards unless it has a steering wagon at the other end |
| 12:39 | <Eddi|zuHause> | the next natural extension would be a flag "this engine has shunting ability" [removing the requirement of the steering engine, but possibly reduced speed and different signalling rules] |
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| 13:03 | <Slowpoke> | if I play whith some ECS-VEctor-grfs, what trainset is best to use? (eg. for transporting automobiles etc.) |
| 13:03 | <LordAzamath> | DBset with ECS extension I guess |
| 13:04 | <Patrick`> | yo |
| 13:04 | <Patrick`> | any cheese monkeys here? |
| 13:04 | <Slowpoke> | okay thanks |
| 13:04 | <Patrick`> | it seems like the most european of my channels |
| 13:04 | <Patrick`> | vivre la vie francais, "live the french life". I know what it literally means, but is it a phrase that means something else? |
| 13:06 | <LordAzamath> | hmm.. Is there any special reason why the original terrain generator gives exactly one half of map above snowline and the other half below? (diagonally.. snow line height set to 7) |
| 13:07 | <LordAzamath> | I know that it uses that method in sub-tropical to make a desert/river/rainforest area.. |
| 13:07 | <LordAzamath> | but why in arctic? |
| 13:07 | <Yorick> | because exactly half of the map is above 7? |
| 13:07 | <Yorick> | because arctic is set to mountainious? |
| 13:08 | <Eddi|zuHause> | LordAzamath: forests may only appear above snow line, this method was used to ensure that there was significant area of snow |
| 13:09 | <LordAzamath> | hmm.. |
| 13:09 | <LordAzamath> | it looks reallly weird |
| 13:09 | <LordAzamath> | I set it to 13 now |
| 13:09 | <Yorick> | that's why we have terragenisis? |
| 13:09 | <Patrick`> | it's over 9000! |
| 13:09 | * | LordAzamath wanted original :P |
| 13:10 | <Eddi|zuHause> | LordAzamath: it is inherited from the original game |
| 13:10 | <Patrick`> | mmm, francais |
| 13:10 | <LordAzamath> | k |
| 13:10 | <LordAzamath> | in that case I didn't want original :P |
| 13:10 | <Eddi|zuHause> | so if you want a real reason (instead of my, let's call it "edjucated guess"), you have to ask chris sawyer |
| 13:12 | -!- | Mark [~Mark@5351EE62.cable.casema.nl] has joined #openttd |
| 13:15 | <LordAzamath> | Eddi|zuHause: Yeah.. Perhaps he can submit a fix to it.. //ironic |
| 13:16 | <Patrick`> | does the man himself actually know we exist? |
| 13:16 | <Patrick`> | ... does he idle on IRC? |
| 13:17 | <Eddi|zuHause> | i am pretty certain he does |
| 13:17 | <Eddi|zuHause> | if by "we" you mean "the openttd project" |
| 13:17 | <LordAzamath> | Patrick`: I'm pretty sure he knows approximatly how many people exist, so maybe he doesn't know you to exist.. But some of us for certain |
| 13:18 | <LordAzamath> | sry for too much TTDP activity, but I'm not in a mood for compiling today :P.. And I didn't get answer from #tycoon |
| 13:19 | <LordAzamath> | > what is the switch in ttdpatchw.cfg to allow building on steep slopes? |
| 13:19 | <Yorick> | building_on_slopes? |
| 13:19 | <Yorick> | but is it possible? |
| 13:19 | <Yorick> | ctrl-f trpe slopes |
| 13:19 | <LordAzamath> | I thought so.. |
| 13:20 | <LordAzamath> | autoslope |
| 13:20 | <LordAzamath> | buildonslope |
| 13:20 | <LordAzamath> | but neither of the allows to build on steep slopes.. |
| 13:20 | <Yorick> | who said anything about steep? |
| 13:21 | <Yorick> | dih: I'm wondering, where should I store the temporary moving data? |
| 13:22 | <fjb> | Ammller: Sorry, I was away from the computer. The licence of the Canadian Set explicitly forbids hacking the set. |
| 13:23 | -!- | Purno [~Purno@5357D37C.cable.casema.nl] has quit [Quit: Always remember you're unique, just like everyone else.] |
| 13:24 | <fjb> | Slowpoke: DBset + ECS extension has some disadvatages. UKRS has better ECS compatibility, so does the Serbian Set. |
| 13:26 | * | hylje thinks fjb is a slowpoke :-) |
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| 13:26 | <LordAzamath> | slow...poke indeed |
| 13:27 | * | fjb wasn't at the computer the last hour and is still catching up the channel. |
| 13:27 | <hylje> | hence |
| 13:28 | -!- | Diabolic1Angel [~dia@xdsl-84-44-233-35.netcologne.de] has joined #openttd |
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| 13:32 | <Yorick> | "if (!ci->being_moved) return; /* The client was never about to be moved;client is a cheetah; so ignore him */" |
| 13:35 | <Ammller> | fjb: well, hacking and distribut |
| 13:36 | <Ammller> | but you need just to remove the action which does make error because of openttd and use it for yourself |
| 13:36 | <Ammller> | dalestand self mentioned somethng like that |
| 13:37 | <Ammller> | you can hack everything as long ans noeone else does catch you ;-) |
| 13:38 | <Yorick> | experience? |
| 13:39 | <Ammller> | buh, no, I am a user :) |
| 13:39 | <Ammller> | "only" |
| 13:42 | <Yorick> | I still don't get, you have a nice and shiny client_lang, next to fill it with NETLANG_ANY for every client :( |
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| 13:45 | <@peter1138> | 16:36 Eddi|zuHause> yes, you cannot drive a train backwards unless it has a steering wagon at the other end |
| 13:45 | <@peter1138> | Trains need *steering*? |
| 13:46 | <fjb> | I could hack it, but I think even hacking without distribution is explicitly forbidden. |
| 13:47 | <Yorick> | nope |
| 13:47 | <fjb> | And why should I use a set when the creator doesn't want me to use it? There are many other nice sets around. |
| 13:48 | * | fjb has seen trains getting pushed with out a steering wagon. |
| 13:48 | <Yorick> | what is the problem with keeping STATUS_INACTIVE sometimes? |
| 13:51 | <fjb> | Ammller: Modifications to code (NFO) is not permitted. |
| 13:52 | <@peter1138> | You can modify OpenTTD though... |
| 13:54 | <fjb> | Hm, modify OpenTTD to disguise as TTDP? :-) |
| 13:54 | <Ammller> | fjb: should I do it for you? |
| 13:55 | <fjb> | Ammller: No, I respect the authors wish and don't want to play that set. |
| 13:55 | <Ammller> | ah, was a joke |
| 13:55 | <Ammller> | would be too complicated for me anyway |
| 13:56 | <fjb> | I don't think is would be that coplicated. You only have to do advanced pattern matching. The way I'm patching OpenTTD without understanding the source code. :-) |
| 13:57 | -!- | Sacro [~Ben@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd |
| 13:58 | <Ammller> | yeah, Dalestan already explained it at the canada set |
| 13:58 | <Ammller> | thread |
| 13:59 | <Yorick> | dih: could you give me some help? |
| 14:01 | <Yorick> | [19:00][19:00] <@dih> !password <-- I take that as a no :) |
| 14:01 | <dih> | what you need? |
| 14:01 | <Yorick> | I wonder: 1.where I should store the moving timeout |
| 14:01 | <Yorick> | 2.how much it should be |
| 14:02 | <Yorick> | _frame_counter + NetworkCalculateLag(NetworkFindClientStateFromIndex(client_index)) is not enough, I think |
| 14:02 | <dih> | Yorick: cannot help you there |
| 14:02 | <Yorick> | :( |
| 14:03 | <Yorick> | I'll make it "lag * 3" |
| 14:04 | * | LordAzamath does some homework now.. cu |
| 14:04 | <Yorick> | cu |
| 14:04 |
