TheGrebs.com:IRC Logs:#openttd:2008:02:04

---	Log	opened Mon Feb 04 00:00:12 2008
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00:55	<Gonozal_VIII>	yay, shores under player owned land and
00:55	<Gonozal_VIII>	-and
00:55	<ln->	you haven't slept at all, have you?
00:55	<Gonozal_VIII>	nope
00:55	<ln->	excellent
00:56	<Gonozal_VIII>	but i have player owned land with shores^^
00:56	<Gonozal_VIII>	only in temperate for now and it's a hack because i didn't change the map array buuuut... it works^^
00:57	<Gonozal_VIII>	switch (ti->tileh) {
00:57	<Gonozal_VIII>	case 1: {
00:57	<Gonozal_VIII>	if (GetTileType(TILE_ADDXY(ti->tile, -1, 0)) == MP_WATER \|\| GetTileType(TILE_ADDXY(ti->tile, 0, 1)) == MP_WATER) {
00:57	<Gonozal_VIII>	like that^^
00:58	<Gonozal_VIII>	did i mention it's a hack?^^
01:00	<Gonozal_VIII>	and it generates shores next to canals...
01:01	<Gonozal_VIII>	but there's not water status stored in unmovables so what should a poor gono do
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01:02	<Gonozal_VIII>	btw canal sprite creeps some green into the neighbouring tile.. that's not nice
01:14	<Gonozal_VIII>	http://gonozalviii.go.funpic.de/OpenTTD/ownedshore.png
01:17	<ln->	it's in the water, it may corrode.
01:17	<Gonozal_VIII>	hehe
01:17	<Gonozal_VIII>	signs in water exist...
01:18	<Gonozal_VIII>	i've seen them in lakes for boats...
01:18	<ln->	me too
01:19	<Gonozal_VIII>	to change the position of the sign wouldn't be too hard... but the whole thing is a hack
01:20	<Gonozal_VIII>	every tiletype should have the same 6 (or 8) bits reserved for terrain type
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01:35	<Eddi\|zuHause2>	is that the same shape as in the picture explaining tileh?
01:35	<Gonozal_VIII>	yes
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01:36	<Gonozal_VIII>	even timed the pause to get that tile on the water :-)
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03:01	<Gonozal_VIII>	http://gonozalviii.go.funpic.de/OpenTTD/6%20bit%20terrain.png
03:04	<@peter1138>	why?
03:04	<Gonozal_VIII>	every tile should have that
03:05	<Gonozal_VIII>	all climate zones possible on every map and no wasted bits
03:07	<@peter1138>	why?
03:07	<@peter1138>	why would a water tile need that?
03:07	<@peter1138>	seems pretty wasted to me
03:07	<hylje>	seawater maybe not
03:07	<hylje>	but fresh water certainly
03:08	<@peter1138>	what does density have to do with town houses?
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03:08	<Gonozal_VIII>	ok, first 3 bits would be enough for those
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03:10	<Gonozal_VIII>	as long as there are no partially snowed houses or houses that start on bare land and grass grows slowly
03:11	<Gonozal_VIII>	well, there are houses that don't cover the whole tile
03:20	<Gonozal_VIII>	and you have a single method to set/get the ground type for every tile
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03:36	<Gonozal_VIII>	http://gonozalviii.go.funpic.de/OpenTTD/7%20bit%20terrain.png <-- that would also support partial grass/snow on coasts, hilly and rocky tiles
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03:42	<Tron>	i see, nothing has changed
03:42	<Noldo>	hi Tron
03:42	<Gonozal_VIII>	hi tron :-) nothing has changed?
03:43	<Tron>	yes, still the same redundant and wrong comments everywhere
03:43	<Noldo>	conserning what?
03:44	<Tron>	i just took a look into a random file and the first thing i saw was wrong documentation
03:44	<Tron>	* This function returns the number of trees of a tile (1-4).
03:44	<Tron>	* The tile must be contains at least one tree or be more specific: it must be
03:44	<Tron>	* of type MP_TREES.
03:44	<Tron>	and it's redundant, too
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03:45	<Zoeff>	Well what do you want, a cookie?
03:45	<Zoeff>	¬_¬
03:46	<Tron>	hehe, nice try
03:47	<Zoeff>	ha
03:47	<Zoeff>	touche
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04:23	<@peter1138>	arrr
04:24	<Gonozal_VIII>	pirate?
04:26	<Gekz>	no
04:26	<Gekz>	that's yarr.
04:26	<Gekz>	he just let out a hard fart.
04:26	<Gonozal_VIII>	ah, i see
04:32	<Tron>	peter1138: please fix the documentation of GetTreeCount() and its siblings. it's the worst kind of comments: it's redundant AND wrong
04:33	<Tron>	AddTreeCount() is even worse
04:33	<Tron>	0 does not mean no trees
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04:37	<Noldo>	how about making a diff?
04:38	<Tron>	Noldo: if somebody hadn't revoked my commit rights (without notifying me, i might add, which is not exactly nice) it would be fixed already
04:41	<ln->	who's the somebody?
04:42	<@peter1138>	!
04:42	<@peter1138>	hello tron
04:42	<@peter1138>	Tron,
04:42	<@peter1138>	er
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05:03	<HMage>	hey, do you have any idea why gprof would say that 'no time was accumulated'?
05:04	<Tron>	forgot to link with -pg?
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05:23	<@peter1138>	Bah, why can't weekdays and weekends be swapped around?
05:25	<Gekz>	peter1138: because I said so
05:25	<Gekz>	your beef is with me
05:25	<Gekz>	peter1138: I will change it around if you can spell "What in the hells is your name or I shall smite thee with all the power that I have amassed from my drug labs across South America" in French
05:27	<@peter1138>	Belugas, help me out!
05:28	<Tron>	peter1138: mind that he did not set a time limit
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05:36	<@peter1138>	nod
05:37	<@peter1138>	Hmm, CD ripping at 20x...
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05:44	<HMage>	Tron: I didn't.
05:45	*	Gekz waits impatiently.
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05:58	<ln->	nobody has fixed the error mentioned by Tron.
06:02	<@peter1138>	Indeed.
06:02	*	peter1138 is currently busy and without time to look at it :(
06:02	<@peter1138>	(Hence the weekend thing, heh)
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06:16	<+michi_cc>	anybody compiling with gcc here?
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06:18	<DirtYiCE>	hi
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06:26	<@peter1138>	hmm
06:26	*	peter1138 has no idea what the comments should be
06:28	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: peter1138 * r12054 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Cleanup: Use VehicleType instead of byte for vehicle types...
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06:31	<SmatZ>	hello
06:35	<+michi_cc>	http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=33&t=36107 should now also work with gcc
06:38	<@peter1138>	,.../* Check for occupied track */
06:38	<@peter1138>	,...//TODO
06:38	<@peter1138>	that is amusing :)
06:39	<Tron>	"To disallow passing through a PBS signal from behind, place a no-entry signal nearby facing the direction from which trains are not supposed to pass. Most times this should not be neccessary as passing a signal from behind is penalized by the pathfinder." bewildered
06:40	<+michi_cc>	What does bewilder you?
06:42	<Tron>	the whole sentence
06:44	<@peter1138>	Yers
06:46	<Zavior>	whu
06:46	<Zavior>	t
06:46	<Zavior>	pbs in ottd?
06:47	<Zavior>	nah you are kiddign!
06:47	<+michi_cc>	well, in my patch an one-way pbs signal can be passed from behind (the side with no lights), not like the normal signals which do not allow that. If you absolutly don't want that, place a no-entry signal somewhere along.
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06:48	<@peter1138>	hmm, one-way signals placed by default?
06:49	<@peter1138>	can't toggle pbs status
06:49	<+michi_cc>	design decision, you can always switch the patch setting off again
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06:50	<Tron>	why the change in the one-way behaviour?
06:50	<@peter1138>	michi_cc, ah, there is some interaction with the signal gui window then
06:51	<+michi_cc>	why not, Ii think it's more realsitic that way? it's inspired by http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Realistic_Path_Based_Signaling
06:51	<Tron>	it breaks established behaviour for no good reason
06:51	<Tron>	you should not cascade trinary operators
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06:52	<Tron>	+ byte track_b = GB(_m[t].m2, 8, 3);
06:52	<Tron>	+ Track track = (Track)(track_b - 1); // map array saves Track+1
06:52	<Tron>	+ return track_b ? (TrackBits)(TrackToTrackBits(track) \| (HasBit(_m[t].m2, 11) ? TrackToTrackBits(TrackToOppositeTrack(track)) : 0)) : TRACK_BIT_NONE;
06:52	<Tron>	if (track_b == 0) return TRACK_BIT_NONE;
06:52	<+michi_cc>	peter1138: the patch setting only controls what the signal tool will build. I could always switch it back to cycle all possible signal types
06:52	<+michi_cc>	Tron: noted
06:53	<@peter1138>	my signals are all red
06:53	<+michi_cc>	start a train
06:53	<@peter1138>	this is fine, as it's default red
06:53	<@peter1138>	however, this stops yapf from trying to use a two-way signal
06:53	<Tron>	also you should use for (; cond; incr) { /* foo / } instead of while (cond) { / foo */ incr; }
06:54	<Tron>	+ assert(IsPlainRailTile(t) && b != INVALID_TRACK_BIT && !TracksOverlap(b));
06:54	<+michi_cc>	well, two-way pbs signals are not usefull the way I implemented it anyway
06:54	<Tron>	do not concatenate conditions in assert()s with &&
06:54	<Tron>	use separate assert()s
06:54	<Tron>	makes debugging easier
06:54	<Tron>	because you can tell right away, which part failed
06:55	<Tron>	exception: range checks, assert(23 <= x && x < 42); is fine
06:55	<Tron>	((byte)(b != TRACK_BIT_NONE)) & 1
06:55	<Tron>	huh?
06:56	<@peter1138>	yeah
06:58	<@peter1138>	GAH
06:58	*	peter1138 attempts to fool IE6 into not fucking up
06:58	<@peter1138>	tricky job, i must say
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07:07	<TinoDidriksen>	Do you have to? These days I tend to ignore IE6.
07:09	<Tron>	(byte)b & 1
07:09	<Tron>	?
07:13	<@peter1138>	TinoDidriksen, well i tried but the client didn't like it ;(
07:13	<TinoDidriksen>	Did you mention MS will push IE7 to everyone soon? Not that it's super, but it's a point.
07:13	<Tron>	+ if (IsPresignalEntry(tile, TrackdirToTrack(trackdir)) && (flags & SF_EXIT && !(flags & SF_GREEN))) newstate = SIGNAL_STATE_RED;
07:13	<Tron>	confusing parentheses
07:14	<Tron>	(and redundant)
07:15	<Tron>	+ } else if ((flags & SF_TRAIN) \|\| (flags & SF_EXIT && !(flags & SF_GREEN) \|\| (flags & SF_FULL))) {
07:16	<Tron>	again confusing and redundant
07:17	<+michi_cc>	which parentheses bother you? around the & terms?
07:17	<TinoDidriksen>	I find that parantheses make it easier to read.
07:17	<Tron>	a \|\| (b && c \|\| d)
07:17	<Tron>	this pair
07:18	<TinoDidriksen>	Only thing is that it's not consistent style, even in that one line.
07:18	<Tron>	and yes, the () around the & are redundant, too
07:19	<TinoDidriksen>	I'd write it as ((flags & SF_TRAIN) \|\| ((flags & SF_EXIT) && !(flags & SF_GREEN) \|\| (flags & SF_FULL)))
07:19	<+michi_cc>	a \|\| (b && c) \|\| d better? I know, these parens are redundant as well, but I think this is better for readability
07:19	<Tron>	a \|\| (b && c \|\| d) is certainly only confusing
07:20	<TinoDidriksen>	It shows how the author was thinking when he wrote it.
07:20	<Tron>	use a \|\| (b && c) \|\| d if you really need to silence gcc
07:20	<Tron>	TinoDidriksen: he didn't write it
07:20	<TinoDidriksen>	Ah
07:20	<Tron>	he only modified the line
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07:20	<Tron>	and changed the parentheses
07:21	<Tron>	forcing \|\| into right-associativity /is/ confusing
07:21	<Tron>	also many cascaded pairs of parentheses is hard to read, too
07:21	<+michi_cc>	a & b with or without parenthesis around?
07:22	<Tron>	i prefer without, so it does not unnecessarily increase the global parentheses cound. stuff like three closing parentheses in a row is hard to decipher
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07:23	<Tron>	in any case do not force \|\| and && into right-associativity
07:23	<TinoDidriksen>	Heh, style is fun. I find lots of parans easier to decipher. Faster to see where things are.
07:23	<Tron>	use newlines for that
07:23	<+michi_cc>	any other takers? I don't particularly care, but some people might not be that fluent in c operator precedence
07:24	<Tron>	if they aren't fluent in the very basics of the tool they are using, then they should not use the tool. they'll only hurt themselves
07:25	<Tron>	but my earlier question still is unasnwered: why the fundamental change in behaviour of one-way signals, which only makes using them error prone, without a good reason?
07:27	<+michi_cc>	because I don't like the old way pbs worked. nobody is forced to use my patch
07:27	<@peter1138>	it still has the flaw of the old pbs
07:27	<@peter1138>	it won't reserve a path to a non-pbs signal
07:28	<@peter1138>	i think you at least need default-noentry one-way signals, with passable 'one-way' as a toggle per signal or something
07:28	<@peter1138>	it seems to be useful for stations but not much else
07:28	<+michi_cc>	it does reserve paths to normal signals, if it doesn't this is a bug
07:29	<@peter1138>	it doesn't seem to
07:29	<Tron>	+ /* A signal tile can't be a junction tile */
07:29	<Tron>	+ assert(KillFirstBit(bits) == TRACK_BIT_NONE);
07:29	<Tron>	a tile with two parallel tracks?
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07:30	<+michi_cc>	TrackBits bits = GetTrackBits(next_tile) & DiagdirReachesTracks(dir);
07:30	<+michi_cc>	can two parallel tracks be reached at once?
07:31	<Tron>	hardly. use better variable names. "bits" says nothing, something like "reachable" would be better
07:33	<@peter1138>	heh, changing a signal direction when a train is stopped there causes it to go through
07:34	<+michi_cc>	peter1138: works for me: http://www.icosahedron.de/reserve_non_pbs.png
07:37	<Tron>	+ do { if (!ft.Follow(tile, td)) break; /* stuff */ } while (true)
07:37	<Tron>	while (ft.Follow(tile, td)) { /* stuff */ }
07:40	<Tron>	+ if (!(dont_free_tile && (ft.m_is_station \|\| ft.m_is_tunnel \|\| ft.m_is_bridge))) ClearPathReservation(tile, td);
07:40	-!-	ThePizzaKing [~jeff@c220-239-221-78.eburwd2.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: ThePizzaKing]
07:40	<Tron>	DeMorgan to the rescue!
07:41	<Tron>	also a negation in a variable name is not good
07:41	<Tron>	!dont_free_tile ... ugh
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07:45	<Progman>	if (entry->not_unused !== false) { } ;)
07:47	<Tron>	why stop with comparing one boolean?
07:47	<Tron>	if (x == false == false) {}
07:48	<@peter1138>	:o
07:48	*	peter1138 ponders foodage
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07:49	<+michi_cc>	!(a \|\| b \|\| c) or !a && !b && !c ?
07:51	<Tron>	clearly the latter
07:51	<Tron>	thinking in negations is hard
07:53	<Progman>	depend on the checks imo
07:53	<Tron>	!(a && (b \|\| c \|\| d)) is hard to parse
07:53	<Tron>	try to keep things in DNF
07:53	<Progman>	think of: file != "." && file != ".."
07:53	<Tron>	well, if != is a negation ...
07:54	<Progman>	< Progman> depend on the checks imo
07:54	<Tron>	!(file == ".") is certainly worse
07:54	<Tron>	i don't regard != a negation of something
07:54	-!-	raimar3 [~hawk@p5489DE6B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
07:54	<Tron>	you could argue the same way for < and >= then, too
07:55	<Tron>	(though if the if has both then and else, i'll probably prefer if (x == a \|\| x == b) {} else {} and swap then and else)
07:56	<Progman>	ACK
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08:12	<Vikthor>	michi_cc: I might have found a bug. http://img212.imageshack.us/my.php?image=pbsqh8.png The train from Mariano centrála reserves whole track to Mariano zastávka. I think it should have stopped on the first signal
08:17	<@peter1138>	urgh, popups :o
08:20	<@peter1138>	well that was evil
08:20	<@peter1138>	tesco have pringles for 49p instead of £1.50
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08:25	<ln->	what's that in schillings and pences?
08:26	<SmatZ>	cheap, but I won't buy pringles anyway :-p
08:26	<ln->	-c
08:27	<@peter1138>	4/1d (iirc)
08:28	<@peter1138>	SmatZ, you don't like their smack-coated goodness? heh
08:30	<SmatZ>	peter1138: I like these http://www.coffeeandtea.cz/images/bohemiasolene.jpg - very tasty :) and very salty
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08:38	<LordAzamath>	hello
08:41	<+michi_cc>	Vikthor: how did you manage to do that? I can't reproduce it
08:46	<@peter1138>	STUPID
08:46	<@peter1138>	STUPID STUPID STUPID
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08:53	<@peter1138>	pom te pom
08:54	<SmatZ>	peter1138: what is stupid?
08:55	<@peter1138>	oh, these speakers
08:55	<@peter1138>	with a headphone socket on them
08:56	<@peter1138>	plug in headphones and it doesn't turn the sub off :o
08:56	<Forked>	makes sense :)
08:57	<@orudge`>	well, they probably detected that your headphones had crappy bass or something :p
08:57	<@peter1138>	probably, they're only headphones...
08:58	<@orudge`>	the bass in my headphones is fairly decent
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09:08	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: smatz * r12055 /trunk/src/pathfind.cpp: -Fix: another way to fix AI trying to build road through depots
09:14	<SpComb>	myottd going down for installing-openwrt-onto-my-router purposes. There's actually two clients connected to myottd servers, out of a total of 30 servers or so...
09:26	<@Belugas>	hello
09:26	-!-	murray [murray@pc4103.stdby.hin.no] has joined #openttd
09:26	*	Belugas is now at work
09:26	<@Belugas>	yeah
09:26	<@peter1138>	Yay!
09:26	<@peter1138>	Er, I guess
09:27	<@Belugas>	almost (!)
09:27	<@Belugas>	just... yeah. So far, no big crisis hehe
09:29	<@Belugas>	spoken too fast...
09:29	<@peter1138>	:o
09:29	<@Belugas>	two crisis gaaaa!!!
09:29	<@peter1138>	# crises! crises!
09:30	<@peter1138>	# you can't get away
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09:36	<@Belugas>	Tron : ping
09:37	<@peter1138>	dingaling
09:49	<Vikthor>	michi_cc: I don't know. I have just build the track, and launched the trains(with orders). Should I upload save to forums?
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10:03	<Amis>	HI ALL
10:03	<Amis>	sorry, caps
10:03	<@orudge`>	YES, YOU SHOULD BE SORRY
10:03	<@orudge`>	:p
10:04	<Amis>	http://www.anticapslock.com :P
10:06	<Amis>	i still dont know why they produce keyboard with capslocks on it, i never use it, only when a game need it
10:08	-!-	LordAzamath [~LordAzama@ip18.cab22.ltln.starman.ee] has left #openttd [Kopete 0.12.5 : http://kopete.kde.org]
10:12	<@peter1138>	[233260.940376][233260.940376] BUG: unable to handle kernel NULL pointer dereference at virtual address 00000000
10:12	<@peter1138>	hmm, not good :o
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10:14	<saati>	Amis: for oldskool sql coders
10:16	<Amis>	hehh...
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10:27	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: frosch * r12056 /trunk/src/ (tunnelbridge_map.h yapf/yapf_rail.cpp): -Fix [FS#1704]: Enable YAPF to start searching inside a wormhole.
10:27	<Amis>	wormhole?
10:27	<Progman>	tunnel entry
10:27	<frosch123>	and bridges
10:28	<Progman>	but indeed funny changelog line ;)
10:28	<Amis>	yea :)
10:31	<@Belugas>	totally logical to me, nothing funny about it
10:32	<Amis>	thats a wormhole: http://www.weeklyreader.com/readandwriting/content/binary/wormhole.jpg
10:32	<Amis>	thats why its funny... just started thinking if the wormhole is a feature or something in ottd :D
10:32	<GoneWacko>	I see the hole but where's the worm?
10:32	<Amis>	lol
10:33	<@Belugas>	that is not our type of wormhole
10:33	<Amis>	yeah i noticed :D
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10:38	<@Belugas>	the worm is the train :D
10:39	<+glx>	s/train/vehicle
10:39	<+glx>	(make it general)
10:39	<frosch123>	wormholes are danger, you might end up in locomotion on the other side :)
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10:40	<@Belugas>	lol
10:40	<@Belugas>	right :)
10:44	<Amis>	is it possible to place stops on one-way roads?
10:44	<@Belugas>	ON ??
10:44	<@Belugas>	STOPS????
10:44	<Amis>	stations
10:44	<@Belugas>	well...
10:45	<@Belugas>	try it and tell us if you can ;)
10:45	<frosch123>	and if it works, report is as bug :)
10:46	<Amis>	well its works, it replace the road with the normal one
10:46	<Amis>	so the buses/trucks will use only one side of the stop
10:47	<frosch123>	But the oneway-restriction was removed, wasn't it?
10:47	<Amis>	yea
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10:48	<Amis>	http://amis.weasy.net/stops.png
10:56	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: smatz * r12057 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix: slowdown train when approaching 90deg turn when 90deg turns are forbidden
10:58	<yorick>	Brianetta, I have gotten the autopilot to work
10:58	<Brianetta>	Excellent.
10:58	-!-	fjb [~frank@p5485E1DC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
10:58	<fjb>	Hello
10:58	<Brianetta>	hello.
11:00	<frosch123>	moin
11:00	<yorick>	it turns out that the email option has to be filled in
11:00	<fjb>	Hi frosch123, will I see you again this evening?
11:01	<frosch123>	I am planning so, at least :)
11:01	<fjb>	Great.
11:04	<yorick>	can I find Tk somewhere?
11:08	*	yorick is happy with getting the autopilot to work without having TCL or any of the libs installed :)
11:09	<yorick>	I'm compiling Tk right now
11:10	<Eddi\|zuHause2>	<peter1138> however, this stops yapf from trying to use a two-way signal <- there's a patch option for that
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11:11	<@peter1138>	Eddi\|zuHause2, yes, but when all two-ways are default red, it'll never work
11:11	-!-	mikl [~mikl@0x5733cec6.boanxx22.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
11:11	<Eddi\|zuHause2>	"patch yapf.rail_firstred_twoway_eol off" or something
11:13	<Eddi\|zuHause2>	and i said right from the beginning this option should be off by default
11:15	<@Belugas>	Amis, all is fine if the one-way restriction is removed too
11:15	<@Belugas>	and i thuink it is the case
11:15	<@Belugas>	so...
11:15	<@Belugas>	good :D
11:18	<yorick>	:( can't compile, don't have TCL installed
11:18	<yorick>	it needs TclConfig.tcl
11:19	-!-	SmatZ [~smatz@a40-prg1-5-107.static.adsl.vol.cz] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
11:19	<yorick>	anyone that has the Tk lib for windows precompiled?
11:19	<@peter1138>	wibble
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11:20	<yorick>	wibble ? :S
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11:24	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: frosch * r12058 /trunk/src/npf.cpp:
11:24	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: -Fix: Teach NPF where road vehicles and trams can reverse.
11:24	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: -Fix: Ships can drive through opponents' ship depots. (Thanks SmatZ)
11:24	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: -Codechange: Split NPFFollowTrack() in smaller parts.
11:24	<OTTD>	Hi
11:25	<OTTD>	Is there anybody who is able to tell me how to compile .patch files?
11:25	-!-	mikl [~mikl@0x5733cec6.boanxx22.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat]
11:25	<saati>	OTTD: you dont compile patch files
11:25	<frosch123>	Try BuildOTTD from the sticky post in the development forum
11:25	<saati>	OTTD: you patch the source with it, and than compile that
11:26	<OTTD>	ok I have BuildOTTD installed but what do i have to do?
11:26	<@Belugas>	wasn't there a readme, or a manual on how to do it?
11:26	<frosch123>	I think it is on the wiki
11:26	<@Belugas>	or a forum page or something?
11:27	<frosch123>	http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/BuildOTTD
11:27	<@Belugas>	wiki is good enought
11:27	<OTTD>	BuildOTTD says unknow file foramt
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11:35	<@peter1138>	frosch123, you can now block canals easily
11:37	-!-	MDGrein [~MDGrein@c-e43472d5.02-56-736b7610.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit []
11:39	<@peter1138>	well, not canals, but other non-owned paths
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11:41	*	frosch123 is totally lost
11:41	<@peter1138>	me too
11:42	<DaleStan>	Belugas: At newgrf.cpp:2120. prop 24 is a word, not a doubleword.
11:42	-!-	Osai [~Osai@pD9EB619D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd
11:44	<+glx>	as all TextIDs indeed
11:45	<@Belugas>	noted
11:45	<@Belugas>	thanks
11:46	<@Belugas>	i'll change that as soon as i humanly can
11:46	<+glx>	I can do it if you want Belugas
11:46	<@Belugas>	DaleStan, any problems if i introduce text properties for bridges?
11:47	<@Belugas>	thansk, glx, it would be appreciated
11:47	<@Belugas>	i will not be able to have lunch today :S
11:47	<@Belugas>	therefor, no time for ottd
11:47	<@peter1138>	grrrr
11:47	<@Belugas>	quite
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11:48	<DaleStan>	Like new names, or something else?
11:48	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: glx * r12059 /trunk/src/newgrf.cpp: -Fix (r12041): industries prop 24 is a word
11:49	<@peter1138>	instead of relying on replacing the original text, i believe
11:49	<@peter1138>	WORD
11:50	<@Belugas>	exact, peter1138 and DaleStan
11:51	<@Belugas>	thanks glx :)
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11:52	<DJ-Nekkid>	DaleStan: (or someone) im coding a train, and the 1st wagin behind the MU head is the one with the phanto. but when it turn that wagon "jumps" ... is it possible to make it so that it's the first wagon in --> direction, and the last in <-- direction? currently is my Var2 this; -1 * 0 02 00 BF 81 40 00 FF 01 BB 00 01 01 BA 00 where BB is phanto'ed wagon, and BA is normal one
11:52	<DaleStan>	Define "turn"?
11:52	<@peter1138>	heh
11:52	<+glx>	reverse maybe
11:52	<@peter1138>	reverses
11:52	<DJ-Nekkid>	well, reverse
11:52	<@peter1138>	yes it is but not in ottd
11:53	<+glx>	you need something unimplemented ;)
11:53	<@peter1138>	and you need some varaction2 magic
11:53	<DaleStan>	Belugas: Shouldn't be too much of a problem; obviously the names for Open's extra bridges won't work.
11:53	<DJ-Nekkid>	so my best bet would be a active panto, and unactive panto wagon, and but one at each end
11:54	<@Belugas>	DaleStan: you mean they will not work in ttdp? agreed, since for now we have 2 more
11:54	<@Belugas>	and, for now, they are based on direct ids
11:54	<DaleStan>	DJ-Nekkid: It's modflags (var FE/FF) bit 8.
11:54	<+glx>	and it's not in ottd yet
11:55	<DJ-Nekkid>	oh... ill nvm that then...
11:55	<+glx>	DJ-Nekkid: you should always design grfs for ttdpatch (and hope they'll work in ottd ;) )
11:56	<DJ-Nekkid>	hehe
11:56	*	peter1138 mumbles about certain grf authors working around ottd newgrf bugs instead of reporting them
11:56	<DJ-Nekkid>	well, im currently in my limit of my coding abilities...
11:57	<DJ-Nekkid>	and im thinking i should prioritize to make the set finished, and then make advanced features when done
11:57	<DJ-Nekkid>	and perhaps my skills will increase in the prosess
11:57	*	glx agrees with peter1138
11:57	<DJ-Nekkid>	process
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11:58	<+glx>	if they miss a newgrf feature and have a grf working in ttdp we can implement the missing stuff and check if it works
11:58	*	DJ-Nekkid hides in a corner, probably but not sure, with guilt
11:59	<DaleStan>	Belugas: Yeah. Defining data for Open's two extra bridges will cause TTDPatch to do undefined things.
11:59	<DaleStan>	Finding the texts won't be hard, but patching them may be more interesting; I haven't looked yet.
12:01	<@Belugas>	DaleStan: So i should wait until you say go. It's not an urgent matter tough. Note that I do have a few new properties in mind for bridges.
12:01	<@peter1138>	"I seriously doubt that fast forward makes the game move as fast as your computer is able to run it."
12:01	<@peter1138>	lol
12:02	<SmatZ>	that is serious
12:03	<+glx>	"...graphics card is better in the C2D system" <-- not relevant ;)
12:03	<DaleStan>	Worst case scenario, we document "In Patch change Text IDs 500E..5014 and 501B..5028 instead of setting these Text IDs."
12:04	<@Belugas>	indeed. Although not a nice work around :). But i can live with it
12:05	<@peter1138>	so many different methods to set text ids :o
12:05	<@peter1138>	well, stations & station classes have their own way, anyway
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12:15	<DaleStan>	Belugas: OK. Quite easy, for all three of the ID spaces. Three easily locatable TTD tables to modify.
12:16	<@Belugas>	nice :)
12:16	<DaleStan>	If the three properties you have in mind are "purchase name", "Road query name" and "Rail query name", anyway. If you want different names for "rail purchase" and "road purchase", then I'll have to change the (two) accesses instead. Which is not much harder.
12:16	<@Belugas>	yes, indeed. 3 strings. 1 for purchase and two for ingame description (road/rail)
12:17	<@Belugas>	we do have only 3 strings too
12:17	<@Belugas>	so, adding your idea would not be too hard weither in here
12:17	<@Belugas>	we do it?
12:18	-!-	joey_ [~joey@xdsl-87-78-94-35.netcologne.de] has joined #openttd
12:18	<@Belugas>	the new string will be of course based on the original purchase one
12:18	<joey_>	Hey how do I include newGRFs into my Server when I only have putty for that?
12:18	<joey_>	what do I have to change in the .cfg?
12:18	-!-	joey_ is now known as DJGummikuh
12:18	<saati>	openttd devs: wouldn't you like to put in new trams after 1996?
12:19	<Ammler>	DJGummikuh: configure it local, save and upload it to server
12:19	<Ammler>	and load the server with that save
12:20	<@Belugas>	saati, you can do it yourself, if you wish. It is called writing a grf
12:20	<DJ-Nekkid>	hey DaleStan: to that line i gave you earlier, (-1 * 0 02 00 BF 81 40 00 FF 01 BB 00 01 01 BA 00
12:20	<DJ-Nekkid>	ehm
12:20	<DJ-Nekkid>	there is more to that...
12:20	<saati>	Belugas: the grf file control the names/properties of vehicles?
12:20	<@Belugas>	yup
12:20	<saati>	hmm
12:20	<@Belugas>	even the graphics
12:20	<saati>	i knew about that
12:21	<saati>	i thought it's just the graphics
12:21	<@Belugas>	very far from it ;)
12:21	<saati>	thanks, i'll look into it then
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12:23	<saati>	another question: will the 0.6.0 include the tram grf or will it be an extra download still?
12:23	<Ammler>	saati: which trams would you include?
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12:24	<saati>	http://grfcrawler.tt-forums.net/details.php?do=details&id=173 this?
12:25	<DJGummikuh>	is it possible that r12059 or so can't handle newgrfs correctly?
12:25	<DJ-Nekkid>	hey DaleStan: to that line i gave you earlier, (-1 * 0 02 00 BF 81 40 00 FF 01 BB 00 01 01 BA 00) can i add 40 00 BB 01 BC 00 01 01 (before the BA 00 that is the default), and it will add another grapics at the end of the train?
12:25	<DJGummikuh>	I'm trying to add the aviator newGRF and it puts my CPU to 100% and does nothing
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12:26	<DaleStan>	Paste the whole sprite please, DJ-Nekkid.
12:27	<DaleStan>	After the adding, that is.
12:27	<DJ-Nekkid>	-1 * 0 02 00 BF 81 40 00 FF 01 BB 00 01 01 40 00 BB 01 BB 00 01 01 BA 00
12:27	<DJ-Nekkid>	HMM
12:27	<DJ-Nekkid>	wait
12:27	<DJ-Nekkid>	thats wrong
12:27	<Phantasm>	Using the smooth economy (more, smaller changes) patch with fluctuating economy difficulity setting, the amount of industries goes absurdly low on a big map. Starting with very low number of industries there were something like 150-200 industries on 1024x1024 map. Now after playing 30 years (1950->1980), there are only 69 industries left. My guessing is that the problem comes from odds of new industries being made not changing based on map size.
12:27	<DJ-Nekkid>	-1 * 0 02 00 BF 81 40 00 FF 01 BB 00 01 01 40 00 BB 01 CB 00 01 01 BA 00
12:27	<DJ-Nekkid>	that would be the correct one
12:27	<DJ-Nekkid>	where CB is the wagon at the end
12:28	<Phantasm>	Also with smooth economy patch, when ever an industry production drops 50%, there will immediately be closure of the industry. Thus, it could just state it closes instead of two messages.
12:29	<Phantasm>	Using 0.6.0-beta3 version.
12:29	<saati>	yeah, i ran into that too
12:30	<saati>	many industries close down soon\
12:30	<saati>	before i have time to get some stuff there to keep them going
12:30	<Phantasm>	To compensate the normal odds of industries going down when not used, there should be very high odds of new indutries starting on big maps.
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12:34	<@Belugas>	Phantasm, you are totally wrong, sorry. smooth economy does not change the appearance of industries, nor at creation nor ingame
12:34	<@Belugas>	it has only impact on production
12:34	<saati>	Belugas: than what closes down the industrys?
12:34	<@Belugas>	and i pretty much do doubt that 50% IMMEDIATE closure figure too...
12:35	<Phantasm>	Belugas: I never stated smooth economy had anything to do with that. I just stated that is the setting being used. And I haven't tested with other setting, so I can't say how it goes there.
12:35	<@Belugas>	well... that is what i read out of your line...
12:35	<Phantasm>	Anyway the problems is: Industry amount goes to way too low on big maps.
12:36	<@Belugas>	saati, production, actually. and prodution decreases for quite a few reasons
12:36	<@Belugas>	Phantasm, you jsut have to serve them. and serve them well
12:36	<@Belugas>	they do not sit there just for the pleasure of the eyes
12:37	<Phantasm>	Belugas: Are you saying that the amount of self-sustaining industries should be same on 2048x2048 map than in normal 256x256 map?
12:37	<@Belugas>	proportionally, yes
12:37	<Phantasm>	Imho 64 times as big map should have 64 times the industries being alive without doing anything.
12:38	<@Belugas>	that is the case already
12:39	<@Belugas>	as the map grows, the number of industries grow too
12:39	<@Belugas>	they are scaled
12:39	<Phantasm>	1024x1024 is 16 times as big as 256x256, and I have a total of 69 industries left now and about 20 of those are operated at over 60%. That is 4.3 industries in 256x256 map.
12:39	<DaleStan>	DJ-Nekkid: That parses as follows, assuming you fix <nvar>: Go to cID BB for value from 01 to 01, go to cID 40 for value from BB to 01 (! Inaccessable), go to cID CB for value from 01 to 01 (! Inaccessable; already caught), go to cID BA, else.
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12:39	<Phantasm>	The start count of industries works just fine, but on big map the industries die off like there is no end. Then you are left with about same amount of unused industries as you would have been in 256x256 map.
12:40	<@Belugas>	num = (ind_spc->check_proc == CHECK_REFINERY \|\| ind_spc->check_proc == CHECK_OIL_RIG) ? ScaleByMapSize1D(num) : ScaleByMapSize(num);
12:40	<@Belugas>	that's the line that scale them
12:40	<DaleStan>	DJ-Nekkid: You can never have more than one <nvar> in a single action 2, and all <variable>/<varadjust> bits always appear before the first.