| --- | Log | opened Wed Jan 23 00:00:40 2008 |
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| 01:49 | <SquireJames> | hello gentlemen |
| 01:49 | <SquireJames> | this is more of a OTTD subject, so, i'll post her here |
| 01:49 | <SquireJames> | i've done some NFO before but, typically, i've sort of forgotten how |
| 01:50 | <SquireJames> | essentially, I just want to tweak UKRS so that certain trains and the early carriages and waggons are purchasable in 1900 |
| 01:51 | <Gonozal_VIII> | 00 00 in the date available thing is 1920... earlier dates are in that long format date thingy (not that i am a pro with grfs or something^^) |
| 01:51 | <SquireJames> | which collumn is the date in? |
| 01:52 | <Gonozal_VIII> | action 2A |
| 01:52 | <SquireJames> | I did have an example NFO that showed each collumn with an arrow indicating what action was what |
| 01:52 | <SquireJames> | Do you have that handy? |
| 01:53 | <Gonozal_VIII> | grf2html is great for looking what does what in a grf |
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| 01:54 | <SquireJames> | well, okay, id rather learn it "native" |
| 01:54 | <Gonozal_VIII> | it is almost |
| 01:55 | <SquireJames> | basically, from what I understand notepad converts certain things into characters rather than native hex |
| 01:55 | <Gonozal_VIII> | with descriptions |
| 01:55 | <SquireJames> | and theres some setting or some program somewhere that opens it without this conversion |
| 01:55 | <Gonozal_VIII> | huh? |
| 01:55 | <Gonozal_VIII> | the hex in the grf are characters |
| 01:55 | <Gonozal_VIII> | normal 1-F |
| 01:55 | <SquireJames> | 423 * 14 02 00 FA 81 0C 00 FF 01 "¡ÿ##ÿ" 00 |
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| 01:55 | <Gonozal_VIII> | ah that |
| 01:55 | <SquireJames> | :) Yes, that |
| 01:56 | <SquireJames> | I have forgotten how to turn it off |
| 01:56 | <SquireJames> | the last time I did NFO was, oooh. 2003/04 |
| 01:56 | <Gonozal_VIII> | you can write strings between " " and they get converted to hex by the grfcodec |
| 01:56 | <Gonozal_VIII> | author wrote it that way ;-) |
| 01:56 | <SquireJames> | made a Bulleid Leader Class, worked nicely but since then, eek |
| 01:56 | <SquireJames> | ah, yes, that, how do i do that exactly? |
| 01:57 | <Gonozal_VIII> | "string" |
| 01:57 | <DaleStan> | <Gonozal_VIII> action 2A <-- action 2A is not defined. |
| 01:57 | <SquireJames> | you'll have to go more basic ith me i am afraid |
| 01:57 | <SquireJames> | i have made a batch to convert grfs for me |
| 01:57 | <Gonozal_VIII> | ok sorry |
| 01:57 | <Gonozal_VIII> | not action 2A |
| 01:57 | <DaleStan> | That would be a property, not an action. There's enough troubles when we do keep to the correct names. |
| 01:58 | <Gonozal_VIII> | action 00, property 2A |
| 01:58 | <SquireJames> | grfcodec -d pb_ukrs.grf |
| 01:58 | <SquireJames> | so where do I define the string to be converted to hex? |
| 01:58 | <DaleStan> | grfcodec -? |
| 01:58 | <Gonozal_VIII> | i have a .bat for that too :-) |
| 01:58 | <Gonozal_VIII> | same line |
| 01:58 | <SquireJames> | its a batch file that runs grfcodec, and decodes pb_ukrs.grf |
| 01:58 | <Gonozal_VIII> | you don't, it's automagically |
| 01:59 | <SquireJames> | :) then we are in the same wavelength |
| 01:59 | <DaleStan> | Or renum -? (and its readmes), if you want more control over what gets hexified and what gets stringified. |
| 01:59 | <SquireJames> | okees, so, how do I make it keep names (0-4-0T Saddle Tank for example) and convert those were y##y things to hex |
| 02:00 | <DaleStan> | grfcodec can't do that. NFORenum can, though. |
| 02:00 | <SquireJames> | okeedokes |
| 02:00 | <SquireJames> | sorry if i sound thick, I just forget things easily |
| 02:00 | <SquireJames> | im used to working with more advanced (i.e easier to work with) coding, like in ST Armada |
| 02:00 | <Gonozal_VIII> | hehe me too |
| 02:00 | <SquireJames> | once i have it thought, i'll write it down! |
| 02:01 | <Gonozal_VIII> | armada 2 :-) |
| 02:01 | <SquireJames> | (indeed i am in the final stages of releasing my A2 Total Conversion as we speak, but I digress) |
| 02:01 | <Gonozal_VIII> | hehe, did that too |
| 02:01 | <SquireJames> | So, to get Verrrrrrrrry basic, I have extracted the UKRS nfo |
| 02:02 | <DaleStan> | I seriously doubt that ST:A is more advanced that than NFO. The only thing NFO is missing for Turing completeness is infinite memory. |
| 02:02 | <SquireJames> | well, not advanced in that sense |
| 02:02 | <SquireJames> | whats the term, higher level |
| 02:02 | <SquireJames> | its a simpler language for us, more complex for the computer |
| 02:03 | <SquireJames> | NFO is lower level, closer to assembler, than the bastardised C++ that Armada uses |
| 02:03 | <SquireJames> | anyhoo |
| 02:04 | <SquireJames> | So, i've extracted the NFO, and i have found my first victim, the 0-4-0 Saddle Tank |
| 02:04 | <SquireJames> | the name is a little weird, its called "60-4-0 Saddle Tank (Steam)" so, not sure where the 6 comes from as it doesn't show it but anyways |
| 02:05 | <Gonozal_VIII> | leave the 6 there when you rename it |
| 02:05 | <SquireJames> | Well, i'm not renaming her, and i discovered that when I edited the name of the 2-6-4T Tank |
| 02:05 | <Gonozal_VIII> | it depends to something else, shouldn't have been stringified... many strings have that for some reason |
| 02:06 | <SquireJames> | so, from that name there, which collumn and line refers to action 00 property 2A |
| 02:06 | <SquireJames> | (or whatever it is that does intro date) |
| 02:06 | <Gonozal_VIII> | obviously the action 00 :-) |
| 02:06 | <Gonozal_VIII> | that's usually a very long line |
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| 02:06 | <SquireJames> | Heres line 1, as it were |
| 02:06 | <SquireJames> | 426 * 31 04 00 1F 01 "60-4-0 Saddle Tank (Steam)" 00 |
| 02:07 | <Gonozal_VIII> | 04 is more like 04 |
| 02:08 | <Gonozal_VIII> | 426 * 31 |
| 02:08 | <Gonozal_VIII> | 0 <-- line, length, action type |
| 02:08 | <Gonozal_VIII> | 04 |
| 02:08 | <SquireJames> | okay so thats Action 00 property 4? |
| 02:09 | <Gonozal_VIII> | action 4 |
| 02:09 | <SquireJames> | ah |
| 02:09 | <Gonozal_VIII> | http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=GRFActionsDetailed |
| 02:09 | <SquireJames> | i've read that page, but i can't make much sense of it |
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| 02:09 | <SquireJames> | I dont understand where the actions are in relation to actual code (where they begin and end in that line i posted) |
| 02:10 | <DaleStan> | The first byte is essentially always the action number. |
| 02:10 | <Gonozal_VIII> | something is weird with the formatting of the line you pasted, when i try to copy that it messes up |
| 02:10 | <SquireJames> | well, thts what i mean, I can't remember how to unfudge it |
| 02:11 | <Gonozal_VIII> | it begins with the action number and ends with newline... |
| 02:11 | <DaleStan> | Occasionally you'll run into something that looks like an action 0, but parses poorly and is 257 bytes long; those are not action 0s. Occasionally you'll run into things that look like actions FE and FF; those are not, strictly speaking, actions. |
| 02:11 | <Gonozal_VIII> | yay |
| 02:12 | <SquireJames> | what do i need to alter my batch to say to extract it so it makes more sense |
| 02:12 | <Gonozal_VIII> | makes more sense? |
| 02:12 | <SquireJames> | well you said the line is screwy |
| 02:13 | <SquireJames> | and as we identified, it sometimes extracts things as y##y or other such gibberish |
| 02:13 | <Gonozal_VIII> | no, only the formatting somehow |
| 02:13 | <DaleStan> | It copies fine here; I'd guess the Gonozal_VIII's client doesn't like tabs. |
| 02:13 | <Gonozal_VIII> | aaah tabs |
| 02:13 | <Gonozal_VIII> | <Sprite-number> * <Length> 04 <feature> <language-id> <num-ent> <offset> <text> |
| 02:13 | <Gonozal_VIII> | and that's how you read it |
| 02:14 | <SquireJames> | ah i see |
| 02:14 | <DaleStan> | SquireJames: You need to run NFORenum too. With the proper argument(s) to -b. The definition of "proper" depends on your personal preferences. |
| 02:14 | <SquireJames> | running NFORenum will make it easier to understand, as rookie? |
| 02:14 | <LA[lord]> | DaleStan: What does -b do?.. hmm.. I probably should go and check it out myself :P^^ |
| 02:15 | <Gonozal_VIII> | all i did with renum so far is drag nfos onto it without any params^^ |
| 02:15 | <LA[lord]> | me too |
| 02:16 | <LA[lord]> | I think I have missed some interesting features then.. |
| 02:16 | <LA[lord]> | ^^ |
| 02:16 | <SquireJames> | So DaleStan, after i've run GRFCodec and decoded it (like I have now) |
| 02:16 | <SquireJames> | I run the nfo through NFORenum, with a batch also? |
| 02:17 | <DaleStan> | Or you could do it manually, but yes. |
| 02:17 | <SquireJames> | okay, (again sorry for seeming stupid) so, what ideally should the batch say/ |
| 02:18 | <DaleStan> | renum -b <something> [-b <something else> [...]] grfnamewithoutextension |
| 02:19 | <Gonozal_VIII> | huh? |
| 02:19 | <DaleStan> | <something> and <something else> are subject to personal preference. |
| 02:19 | <Gonozal_VIII> | i didn't get that^^ |
| 02:20 | <SquireJames> | so for example |
| 02:20 | <SquireJames> | renum -b <rob1> [-b <rob2> [...]] pb_ukrs |
| 02:20 | <SquireJames> | ? |
| 02:21 | <DaleStan> | No. |
| 02:21 | <SquireJames> | oh |
| 02:21 | <LA[lord]> | renum -b arandomfile.nfo somethingnew.nfo |
| 02:21 | <SquireJames> | ah i see |
| 02:21 | <LA[lord]> | and the end is somthig I don't use |
| 02:21 | <SquireJames> | where randomfile is my existing nfo |
| 02:21 | <LA[lord]> | and new file is the file it writes |
| 02:22 | <DaleStan> | And again no; -b requires a different sort of argument; square braces indicate something optional. |
| 02:22 | <Gonozal_VIII> | ah... i just let it overwrite :-) |
| 02:22 | <LA[lord]> | if you don't provide newfile, it'll overwrite the randomfile.nfo but creates randomfile.nfo.bak too |
| 02:22 | <LA[lord]> | ok @ DaleStan |
| 02:22 | <DaleStan> | For me, I'd probably use renum -b setcookie=686031254 PlaneSet |
| 02:23 | <Gonozal_VIII> | cookie in a grf? |
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| 02:24 | <DaleStan> | READ THE DOCUMENTATION!!! |
| 02:24 | <SquireJames> | missing or invalid argument to beautify command? |
| 02:25 | <DaleStan> | Then you typed something wrong. Or you failed to read the documentation. |
| 02:25 | * | Gonozal_VIII hides |
| 02:25 | <SquireJames> | renum -b pb_ukrs pb_ukrsRob |
| 02:26 | <SquireJames> | even when i add .nfo to the ends, still says the same |
| 02:26 | <DaleStan> | I spent quite a bit of time documenting how @@BEAUTIFY works, and quite a bit more documenting the link between -b and @@BEAUTIFY. |
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| 02:27 | <LA[lord]> | so documentation is a good place to start ^^ |
| 02:27 | <SquireJames> | okay, bugger the bats, I just dragged and dropped |
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| 02:27 | <DaleStan> | It's all there. Some is hiding in the doc folder, and other parts are hiding behind the magical -? |
| 02:28 | <SquireJames> | and, well, it created a new folder in my user directory called .renum |
| 02:28 | <SquireJames> | with a lot of pretty dats in it |
| 02:28 | <LA[lord]> | hmm.. DaleStan, I just compiled nforenum in linux and it works... Therefore I can now make grfs in linux too :) |
| 02:28 | <LA[lord]> | thanks |
| 02:29 | <DaleStan> | The documentation does, I believe, cover the the .renum folder too. |
| 02:29 | <SquireJames> | however, i've just ran my comparision program on the pb_ukrs.nfo, and the bak it made |
| 02:30 | <SquireJames> | and apart from lines saying //!!Warning (170): Default result cannot be reached. its the same |
| 02:30 | <DaleStan> | That would be because you failed to engage the beautifier. How to do so is covered ... *gasp* in the documentation. |
| 02:31 | <SquireJames> | which is *gasp* where |
| 02:31 | <DaleStan> | <DaleStan> Some is hiding in the doc folder, and other parts are hiding behind the magical -? |
| 02:31 | <LA[lord]> | ^^ |
| 02:33 | <SquireJames> | renum -b pb_ukrs.nfo ukrsRob.nfo |
| 02:33 | <SquireJames> | will that work |
| 02:33 | <LA[lord]> | -b need options too |
| 02:33 | <LA[lord]> | the ones DaleStan pointed out in [] |
| 02:34 | <SquireJames> | <DaleStan> For me, I'd probably use renum -b setcookie=686031254 PlaneSet |
| 02:34 | <SquireJames> | I just changed the name of his files from setcookie thingy to pb_ukrs and PlaneSet to ukrsRob |
| 02:34 | <Gonozal_VIII> | cookies taste good :-) |
| 02:34 | <SquireJames> | so, if thats what DaleStan uses, should work? |
| 02:35 | <SquireJames> | and yet, not, since it complains that the beautify command isn't working again |
| 02:36 | <LA[lord]> | SquireJames: I for one am not sure of this.. But to be sure, I would read /docs/COMMANDS.en.txt |
| 02:36 | <Gonozal_VIII> | i guess it's renum -b optional stuff ukrsRob |
| 02:36 | <LA[lord]> | ^^ |
| 02:36 | <Gonozal_VIII> | but i shouldn't guess |
| 02:36 | <SquireJames> | renum -b+ pb_ukrs.nfo ukrsRob.nfo |
| 02:36 | <LA[lord]> | why +? |
| 02:36 | <DaleStan> | But "setcookie thingy" isn't a file. |
| 02:36 | <SquireJames> | (hazarding a guess since the docs say that -b+ turns on the beautifier) |
| 02:37 | <SquireJames> | This allows, for example, -l- to turn the linter off, |
| 02:37 | <SquireJames> | or -b+ to turn the beautifier on. |
| 02:37 | <LA[lord]> | ok.. |
| 02:37 | * | LA[lord] hides |
| 02:37 | <SquireJames> | righty ho |
| 02:37 | <SquireJames> | that seems to have worked |
| 02:37 | <DaleStan> | + is indeed one of the myrads of things acceptable as an argument to -b. |
| 02:38 | <SquireJames> | good, okay so the NFO has changed |
| 02:38 | <SquireJames> | it now reads as that first line (first line applicable to the Saddle Tank) |
| 02:38 | <SquireJames> | 426 * 31 04 00 1F 01 36 "0-4-0 Saddle Tank (Steam)" 00 |
| 02:39 | <SquireJames> | the square thingy is a tab id wager |
| 02:40 | <Gonozal_VIII> | so the 6 is outside the "" now |
| 02:40 | <SquireJames> | sooo, now we have codey that makes sense |
| 02:40 | <SquireJames> | (and the y##y has become A1 FF 23 23 FF which is gorgeous, wonderful hex |
| 02:40 | <Gonozal_VIII> | hehe |
| 02:41 | <SquireJames> | so, which little chunk is the action that controls introduction date |
| 02:41 | <SquireJames> | i'd hazard a guess at 1F 01 36 but id probably be very wrong |
| 02:41 | <Gonozal_VIII> | nothing from there as that's an action 4 |
| 02:41 | <SquireJames> | okeedoke |
| 02:42 | <SquireJames> | hmmm |
| 02:42 | <SquireJames> | next line perhaps? |
| 02:42 | <Rubidium> | SquireJames: you're better off by starting to read the whole NewGRF spec to understand what the different actions do |
| 02:42 | <Gonozal_VIII> | could be anywhere in the file |
| 02:42 | <SquireJames> | i've tried Rubidium, i can't make sense of it |
| 02:42 | <SquireJames> | i did have a file that had commented headers telling me which was what |
| 02:42 | <LA[lord]> | hmm.. |
| 02:42 | <Gonozal_VIII> | use grf2html, then you'll find the right line much easier |
| 02:43 | <Rubidium> | for example, action 4s can be defined almost anywhere in the file and do not need to be right in front (or behind) the code that handles the vehicle/industry/whatever related to the introduced string |
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| 02:43 | <SquireJames> | it says, and i quote in the wiki |
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| 02:43 | <SquireJames> | 03 B vehicle life in years |
| 02:43 | <SquireJames> | so, where is 03 B? |
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| 02:44 | <Gonozal_VIII> | in the html you can search for something related to that engine... like the engineid or the hp or anything and you'll know which line it is |
| 02:44 | <DaleStan> | *facepalm* What is the header for the column with the "B"? |
| 02:44 | <Gonozal_VIII> | that's how long a vehicle lasts before it needs replacement |
| 02:45 | <Rubidium> | and what does the rest of the page tell you about the meaning of "vehicle life"? |
| 02:45 | <LA[lord]> | hmm.. IIRC he said about action04.. not action0 |
| 02:45 | <SquireJames> | ah, indeed Gonozal indeed |
| 02:45 | <LA[lord]> | previously |
| 02:45 | <SquireJames> | okees, so, vehicle introduction |
| 02:45 | <SquireJames> | 00 W date of introduction |
| 02:45 | <SquireJames> | hmm, where is that i wonder |
| 02:46 | <DaleStan> | Also in the action 0. |
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| 02:46 | <Gonozal_VIII> | i told you, use grf2html and search for the right line there :P |
| 02:46 | <SquireJames> | and where is the action 0 in that line |
| 02:46 | <DaleStan> | In which line? |
| 02:46 | <Gonozal_VIII> | it's a different line anywhere in the grf |
| 02:47 | <LA[lord]> | SquireJames: Every action is different sprite |
| 02:47 | <Gonozal_VIII> | grf2html parses the action 0 to a table with data in it, much easier to find it that way |
| 02:48 | <SquireJames> | So, with that in mind, how do I, or infact how does the game know which action belongs to which vehicle if this curious Action 00 can be on any line anywhere else in the nfo? |
| 02:48 | <SquireJames> | there has to be some rhyme or reason to it |
| 02:48 | <Gonozal_VIII> | vehicle id |
| 02:48 | <LA[lord]> | look at action0 specs.. <Sprite-number> * <Length> 00 <Feature> <Num-props> <Num-info> <Id> (<Property <New-info>)... |
| 02:49 | <LA[lord]> | Sprite-numberAction 0 can appear anywhere in the GRF file, so set it to the sprite number you are currently at. |
| 02:49 | <LA[lord]> | I could copy-paste everything from there, but I guess it's easier if you looked up it yourself |
| 02:49 | <SquireJames> | so in the line 426 * 31 04 00 1F 01 36 "0-4-0 Saddle Tank (Steam)" 00 |
| 02:49 | <SquireJames> | sprite number is 426? |
| 02:49 | <Gonozal_VIII> | that only defines the string |
| 02:49 | <LA[lord]> | 426 is sprite number |
| 02:49 | <SquireJames> | length is 31, and so forth |
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| 02:50 | <SquireJames> | good, getting somewhere, okee |
| 02:50 | <LA[lord]> | lenght is how many bytes are after the lenght thing in that sprite |
| 02:50 | <SquireJames> | so, i need to find another line with 426 as the sprite number, to find the action 00? |
| 02:50 | <LA[lord]> | 04 is action 4 |
| 02:50 | <SquireJames> | since sprite number is how it references isnt it? |
| 02:50 | <Gonozal_VIII> | there's only one line with same sprite number |
| 02:50 | <SquireJames> | oh sorry vehicle id |
| 02:51 | <SquireJames> | right hmm |
| 02:51 | <LA[lord]> | you are looking at wrong action |
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| 02:51 | <LA[lord]> | action04 defines new names |
| 02:51 | <Gonozal_VIII> | there's no vehicle id in that line |
| 02:51 | <LA[lord]> | not properties |
| 02:51 | <SquireJames> | well i gathered that, but that was the only way to find where to start looking |
| 02:51 | <Gonozal_VIII> | that line doesn't help you in any way to find the right action 0 |
| 02:51 | <SquireJames> | from that line down, it looks like this |
| 02:51 | <SquireJames> | 426 * 31 04 00 1F 01 36 "0-4-0 Saddle Tank (Steam)" 00 |
| 02:51 | <SquireJames> | 427 * 22 00 00 08 01 36 12 FD 00 00 00 02 10 03 1C 04 28 05 00 06 03 1A 00 |
| 02:51 | <SquireJames> | 428 * 22 00 00 07 01 36 08 00 0D 2F 0E 30 4C 00 00 17 07 19 00 14 00 21 03 |
| 02:51 | <SquireJames> | 429 * 15 00 00 04 01 36 09 38 00 16 19 0B 5E 01 1F 53 |
| 02:51 | <SquireJames> | 430 * 4 01 00 07 08 |
| 02:52 | <LA[lord]> | http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Action4 |
| 02:52 | <SquireJames> | after that it just references the pcx so that must be the part that says what the 0-4-0 Saddle Tank looks like |
| 02:52 | <LA[lord]> | other are action 0s |
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| 02:52 | <LA[lord]> | 3 ones |
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| 02:52 | <LA[lord]> | then comes action01 |
| 02:52 | <SquireJames> | ah, indicated by the leading 00 right? |
| 02:53 | <SquireJames> | 04 00 1f etc = action 04 |
| 02:53 | <DaleStan> | <DaleStan> The first byte is essentially always the action number. |
| 02:53 | <SquireJames> | 00 00 08 is an action 00, and so forth |
| 02:53 | <SquireJames> | ah, okay, now im getting somewhere |
| 02:53 | <SquireJames> | so the first byte, as DaleStan says is the action number |
| 02:53 | <LA[lord]> | yes |
| 02:53 | <Gonozal_VIII> | and why exactly do you keep ignoring me telling you to use grf2html? |
| 02:53 | <SquireJames> | now, what is the second byte |
| 02:54 | <Gonozal_VIII> | depends on action |
| 02:54 | -!- | Greyscale is now known as Greysc[a]le |
| 02:54 | <SquireJames> | (im not ignoring you, i am reading the documentation for it) |
| 02:54 | <SquireJames> | (having trouble getting her to work) |
| 02:54 | <LA[lord]> | ok.. I'm getting like DaleStan.. read specs |
| 02:54 | <Gonozal_VIII> | no need for documentation, drag the .grf onto it |
| 02:54 | <DaleStan> | Whatever the documentation for that action says it is. |
| 02:54 | <SquireJames> | o've tried tht Gonozal, it blinks up real quick then produces nothing |
| 02:54 | -!- | a1270 [~Cheese@24-117-88-79.cpe.cableone.net] has joined #openttd |
| 02:55 | <Gonozal_VIII> | no dir with html inside? |
| 02:55 | <SquireJames> | nope, i drag the pb_urks.nfo over the program, it blinks up a dos window, then does nothing |
| 02:55 | <Gonozal_VIII> | drag the .grf onto it <-- did i write .nfo? |
| 02:56 | <SquireJames> | anyways, so, action 00 word length is the year of introduction |
| 02:56 | <DaleStan> | property 00. |
| 02:56 | <SquireJames> | ah |
| 02:56 | <SquireJames> | so , action 00 property 00 is year of introduction |
| 02:56 | <DaleStan> | yes. |
| 02:56 | <SquireJames> | right, so, the second byte is the property? |
| 02:57 | <SquireJames> | so, 00 00 is action00 property 00? |
| 02:57 | <LA[lord]> | http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Action0 |
| 02:57 | <LA[lord]> | says feature 00 not prop |
| 02:58 | -!- | dih|away is now known as dih |
| 02:58 | <SquireJames> | ah so |
| 02:58 | <SquireJames> | 00 00 is action00 feature 00 (trains) |
| 02:58 | <LA[lord]> | yes |
| 02:59 | <Gonozal_VIII> | drag pb_urks.grf onto grf2html.exe and look at the result :P |
| 02:59 | <SquireJames> | i'll try that after Gonozal, im getting somehere now |
| 02:59 | <SquireJames> | soo, with that in mind |
| 02:59 | <Gonozal_VIII> | everything you ask is described there! |
| 03:00 | <LA[lord]> | Gonozal_VIII is right.. |
| 03:00 | <SquireJames> | 08 is properties to change |
| 03:00 | <SquireJames> | 01 is vehicle ID |
| 03:00 | <LA[lord]> | <Num-props> B How many properties you would like to change per vehicle or station |
| 03:00 | <LA[lord]> | so how many props, not the property |
| 03:01 | <SquireJames> | oh yes, sorry |
| 03:01 | <SquireJames> | prsumably thats 08 because we are changing long format date (word length)? |
| 03:01 | <LA[lord]> | <Num-info> B How many vehicles/stations you would like to change |
| 03:02 | <LA[lord]> | so it should be 01 I guess.. |
| 03:03 | <SquireJames> | well, as i've posted, the lines i have are |
| 03:03 | <SquireJames> | 426 * 31 04 00 1F 01 36 "0-4-0 Saddle Tank (Steam)" 00 |
| 03:03 | <SquireJames> | 427 * 22 00 00 08 01 36 12 FD 00 00 00 02 10 03 1C 04 28 05 00 06 03 1A 00 |
| 03:03 | <SquireJames> | 428 * 22 00 00 07 01 36 08 00 0D 2F 0E 30 4C 00 00 17 07 19 00 14 00 21 03 |
| 03:03 | <SquireJames> | 429 * 15 00 00 04 01 36 09 38 00 16 19 0B 5E 01 1F 53 |
| 03:03 | <SquireJames> | 430 * 4 01 00 07 08 |
| 03:03 | <Gonozal_VIII> | you have lots of more lines |
| 03:04 | <SquireJames> | so the first Action00 changes 08 properties |
| 03:04 | <SquireJames> | the second, 07 and the third 04? |
| 03:04 | <Gonozal_VIII> | those don't have to be the ones belonging to that action 4 string |
| 03:04 | <LA[lord]> | yes |
| 03:05 | <SquireJames> | right, so where do we find date (2A) in this mess |
| 03:05 | <LA[lord]> | Gonozal_VIII: I think he has ignored the action4 for now.. good :P |
| 03:05 | <SquireJames> | I simply use 04 to find the name of the loco so i knew where to start looking :P |
| 03:05 | <Gonozal_VIII> | but he wants to change the 0-4-0 saddle tank |
| 03:05 | <SquireJames> | I know that simply effected the name |
| 03:05 | <SquireJames> | I believe the 0-4-0 Saddle Tank has a current start date of 1903 |
| 03:06 | <Gonozal_VIII> | that has some random in it |
| 03:07 | <SquireJames> | according to grf2xml |
| 03:07 | -!- | gfldex [~dex@dslb-088-074-177-034.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd |
| 03:08 | <SquireJames> | line 427 is indeed the right line |
| 03:08 | <SquireJames> | and the date is set to 0x000 (0) but wouldnt that be 1920? |
| 03:09 | <Gonozal_VIII> | not sure about that 00 00, could be something like "whenever the game starts" |
| 03:09 | -!- | gfldex_ [~dex@dslb-088-074-186-169.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
| 03:09 | <Gonozal_VIII> | or not |
| 03:09 | <SquireJames> | ah correction, my mistake |
| 03:10 | <SquireJames> | the 0-4-0 is set to appear in 1919 |
| 03:10 | <LA[lord]> | arghh.. I can't find 2a there,.. |
| 03:10 | <SquireJames> | so, that woould be close as damn it to 1920 |
| 03:10 | <shodan> | hey, i've got a problem with the latest beta, when it starts up I'm giving a couple of conf warnings |
| 03:10 | <Gonozal_VIII> | 00 00 is 1920, yes... |
| 03:10 | <shodan> | anyone know how to fix it? I couldn't see an answer on the wiki last night |
| 03:10 | <LA[lord]> | shodan: what warnings? |
| 03:10 | <Gonozal_VIII> | conf warnings? |
| 03:11 | <LA[lord]> | what was the one you updated from? |
| 03:11 | <Gonozal_VIII> | something like trailing characters? |
| 03:11 | <shodan> | ini: trailing characters at end of setting 'advanced_vehicle_list' |
| 03:11 | <shodan> | also 'loading_indicators' |
| 03:11 | <LA[lord]> | remove the offending line from cfg |
| 03:11 | <Gonozal_VIII> | changed from true/false to 0,1,2 |
| 03:11 | <shodan> | :) |
| 03:11 | <shodan> | ta |
| 03:11 | <LA[lord]> | lines* |
| 03:11 | <shodan> | ahh |
| 03:11 | <shodan> | OK |
| 03:11 | <shodan> | 0 false, 1 true, 2... ? |
| 03:11 | <shodan> | doubly-true? |
| 03:12 | <Gonozal_VIII> | check the settings |
| 03:12 | <SquireJames> | hmm, I can't find the tram locomotive on there which is weird |
| 03:12 | <Gonozal_VIII> | something like none, only for player, for all |
| 03:12 | <LA[lord]> | I believe that's show cometitior's loading .. the 2 |
| 03:12 | <LA[lord]> | SquireJames: Where? |
| 03:12 | <shodan> | ahh ta guys |
| 03:12 | <SquireJames> | In the converted html |
| 03:13 | <SquireJames> | although, i have found the 4-4-0 which starts in 1902 |
| 03:13 | <Gonozal_VIII> | trams are road vehicles |
| 03:13 | <SquireJames> | Not this one |
| 03:13 | <SquireJames> | tis an 0-6-0 Steam Tram, its a rail locomotive |
| 03:13 | <SquireJames> | confusing i know |
| 03:13 | <SquireJames> | anyway, forget the tram, I can use the 4-4-0 |
| 03:13 | <LA[lord]> | wait.. the grf name is..? I'll decode it to see whatäs going on :D |
| 03:14 | <SquireJames> | heres the confusing part, both the 4-4-0 Express Locomotive and the 0-4-0 Saddle Tank have the date set as 0x000 (0) |
| 03:14 | <SquireJames> | buuut, the 4-4-0 Express Locomotive appears in 1902, the Saddle Tank not till 1919 |
| 03:14 | <Gonozal_VIII> | wow, i have vehicles available in the 1870s |
| 03:15 | <Gonozal_VIII> | check the long format date |
| 03:15 | <SquireJames> | okay, where in the html is that |
| 03:16 | <Gonozal_VIII> | if it's not in the same table, it's not defined there |
| 03:16 | <Gonozal_VIII> | then maybe you have the wrong lines :-) |
| 03:17 | <Gonozal_VIII> | check stuff like hp and max speed |
| 03:17 | <SquireJames> | wilco |
| 03:17 | <Gonozal_VIII> | and you can sort the vehicles ingame by id... that could help too |
| 03:17 | -!- | Farden [~jk3farden@AMontsouris-156-1-52-63.w90-24.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #openttd |
| 03:18 | <SquireJames> | right well everything else checks out, the weight, hp, tractive effort etc |
| 03:18 | <SquireJames> | all matches ingame (have it open and paused) |
| 03:19 | <SquireJames> | would Miscellaneous Flags be anything to do with long format date |
| 03:20 | <DaleStan> | Does the documentation for Miscellaneous Flags say anything about long format date? |
| 03:22 | <SquireJames> | no, but i was checking since it was the only thing not clearly defined |
| 03:22 | <SquireJames> | i.e the power box hmm, might just be dealing with power |
| 03:22 | <SquireJames> | miscellaneous flags could be defined as anything, hence i was wondering if pikka somehow used it for Long Format Date |
| 03:23 | <@peter1138> | long format date is defined by the long format date field |
| 03:23 | <@peter1138> | if grf2html doesn't show that then it's out dated |
| 03:23 | <@peter1138> | (and i've never heard of it) |
| 03:23 | <SquireJames> | clearly it must be |
| 03:24 | <DaleStan> | peter1138 needs to lurk the TTDPatch Graphics forum, then. |
| 03:24 | <SquireJames> | so, back to the old NFO |
| 03:24 | <Gonozal_VIII> | grf2html shows long date format, if it's not there, it's just not there |
| 03:25 | <Gonozal_VIII> | maybe the date gets changed somewhere else |
| 03:25 | <SquireJames> | hmm |
| 03:25 | <SquireJames> | I cant personally find anything on the TTDPatchWiki that deals with Long Format Date |
| 03:26 | <DaleStan> | And the long format introduction date is very definitely in grf2html's output. |
| 03:26 | <Gonozal_VIII> | http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Action0Trains#Long_format_introduction_date_2A_ |
| 03:26 | <SquireJames> | ah okays, must have missed that on the search |
| 03:26 | <SquireJames> | so |
| 03:27 | <Gonozal_VIII> | no need to search... click on action 0, click on trains, there it is |
| 03:27 | <Gonozal_VIII> | search for different lines with the same vehicle id |
| 03:28 | <CIA-5> | OpenTTD: peter1138 * r11955 /trunk/src/tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r11926): Prevent bridge and tunnel ends being placed on rivers. |
| 03:28 | <LA[lord]> | SquireJames: I really really suggest you to start with the tutorial.. It explains some basic things too which you seem not to know.. Really.. And I'm not being mean or anything. It's just difficult to explain, if I don't know what things need to be explained.. :) |
| 03:29 | <SquireJames> | Where does Vehicle ID lurk in the html Gonozal |
| 03:29 | <Gonozal_VIII> | the head of the table |
| 03:29 | <DaleStan> | Somewhere near the letters "ID", usually. |
| 03:30 | * | dih greets DaleStan |
| 03:31 | <SquireJames> | ah got it |
| 03:31 | <SquireJames> | 0x12 "Sprite ID" 0xFD (253 |
| 03:31 | <Gonozal_VIII> | not that |
| 03:31 | <SquireJames> | so, i nee to find more lines with the 253 Sprite ID right? |
| 03:31 | <Gonozal_VIII> | somehow all of them have sprite id 253^^ |
| 03:31 | <Gonozal_VIII> | ID 0x00 (0) |
| 03:31 | <Gonozal_VIII> | something like that |
| 03:32 | <Gonozal_VIII> | next to property |
| 03:32 | <Gonozal_VIII> | first line in the table |
| 03:32 | <SquireJames> | thats odd |
| 03:32 | <Gonozal_VIII> | is not |
| 03:32 | <SquireJames> | no i mean this |
| 03:32 | <SquireJames> | Text 0x01 "0-6-0 Pannier Tank (Steam)" |
| 03:32 | <SquireJames> | #631 Action0 - Define Properties |
| 03:32 | <SquireJames> | Feature 0x00 "trains" Property ID 0x01 (1) |
| 03:32 | <SquireJames> | 0x12 "Sprite ID" 0xFD (253) |
| 03:33 | <Gonozal_VIII> | so? |
| 03:33 | <SquireJames> | but, the 4-4-0, the 0-4-0 Saddle Tank, and infact, all of em, have the same Sprite ID |
| 03:33 | <SquireJames> | 253 |
| 03:33 | <SquireJames> | but that cant be right |
| 03:33 | <Gonozal_VIII> | [09:31:43][09:31:43] Gonozal_VIII: somehow all of them have sprite id 253^^ |
| 03:33 | <DaleStan> | Yes, it can. |
| 03:33 | <DaleStan> | Try reading the fine documentation. |
| 03:33 | <SquireJames> | Okay, so if they all have the same sprite ID |
| 03:34 | <Gonozal_VIII> | i guess that means something like last defined sprite bla |
| 03:34 | <Gonozal_VIII> | ID 0x01 (1) <-- that |
| 03:34 | <SquireJames> | I'll have to try Vehicle ID or something |
| 03:37 | <@peter1138> | it's not a sprite id |
| 03:37 | <Gonozal_VIII> | that's id 1, so if it's a complete set, you have vehicles never expire on, some late year like 2100 and sort the list of available vehicles by id, it's the second |
| 03:37 | <@peter1138> | it's an index into a table of sprite ids, heh |
| 03:37 | <@peter1138> | well, offset into |
| 03:37 | <SquireJames> | so the 0-4-0 Saddle tank would be id 54/ |
| 03:37 | <SquireJames> | Property ID 0x36 (54 |
| 03:38 | <SquireJames> | no thats not right either |
| 03:38 | <SquireJames> | since as you say the 0-4-0 is the first train sorted by ID |
| 03:38 | <SquireJames> | so it has to be 1 |
| 03:38 | <Gonozal_VIII> | 0 |
| 03:38 | <Gonozal_VIII> | first is 0 |
| 03:38 | <SquireJames> | okay, 0 |
| 03:38 | <SquireJames> | either way its not 54! |
| 03:38 | <Gonozal_VIII> | ID 0x00 (0) |
| 03:38 | <SquireJames> | 0x1A "sort the purchase list" 0x00 (0) |
| 03:38 | <Gonozal_VIII> | search for that |
| 03:39 | <DaleStan> | Except that not all IDs are necessarily available at any one time, and that the by ID sort likely obeys prop 1A. |
| 03:39 | <Gonozal_VIII> | prop 1a... why is that useful? |
| 03:40 | <Gonozal_VIII> | couldn't they just use the ids in the order they want them to be? |
| 03:40 | <DaleStan> | Not without changing all the old IDs, and breaking compatibility. |
| 03:40 | <Gonozal_VIII> | but the set replaces all... |
| 03:41 | <@peter1138> | 1A was a bitch for doing the engine pool :) |
| 03:41 | <DaleStan> | But the set wasn't necessarily developed all at once. |
| 03:41 | <@peter1138> | Gonozal_VIII, backward compatibility with itself |
| 03:41 | <Gonozal_VIII> | ah i see... |
| 03:41 | <SquireJames> | hmm |
| 03:41 | -!- | stillunknown [~stillunkn@82-136-225-75.dsl.ip.tiscali.nl] has joined #openttd |
| 03:42 | <SquireJames> | So, do we have more of a chance of finding this Long Date Format in the NFO than we do in the HTML/ |
| 03:42 | <Gonozal_VIII> | no, you can just search for the text in the html |
| 03:43 | <SquireJames> | Well, I find nothing to seperate the introduction dates of the 0-4-0 Saddle Tank and the 4-4-0 express |
| 03:43 | <DaleStan> | *I* have an equally good chance of finding it in either. *You*, on the other hand, seem incapable of searching for "long" in the HTML, so the chances of you finding anything useful in either are slim. |
| 03:43 | <SquireJames> | even though they are ingame 17 years apart |
| 03:44 | <Gonozal_VIII> | search for "Long format introduction date" in the html |
| 03:44 | <SquireJames> | DaleStan, if you wish to change from helping me to insulting me, find someone else |
| 03:45 | <Gonozal_VIII> | and search for lines containing 0x00 (0) |
| 03:45 | <SquireJames> | #3993 Action0 - Define Properties |
| 03:45 | <SquireJames> | Feature 0x00 "trains" Property ID 0x00 (0) |
| 03:45 | <SquireJames> | 0x2A "Long format introduction date" 0x000AA9C7 (698823) |
| 03:45 | <DaleStan> | SquireJames: If you wish to get useful help, READ THE SPEC. If you don't understand something there, ask about THE SPEC. |
| 03:45 | <Gonozal_VIII> | see, there you have it |
| 03:45 | <SquireJames> | i'd rather talk to a person than a piece of paper. If i get stuck, people can understand and help |
| 03:46 | <SquireJames> | well, except for yourself it seems, then again whether your a person is debatable |
| 03:46 | <dih> | people that understand and can help write those |
| 03:46 | <dih> | papers |
| 03:46 | <dih> | to not have to be asked every 5 mins |
| 03:46 | <SquireJames> | anyways, yes, I seem to have found it, so presumably 69882 converts to 1919 |
| 03:47 | <SquireJames> | well, 69882 converts to a hexidecimal number, which is interpretted as 1919 |
| 03:47 | <SquireJames> | 69882 is something to do with number of days or something I presume |
| 03:47 | <Gonozal_VIII> | the hex is also there |
| 03:47 | <Gonozal_VIII> | 000AA9C7 <-- hex |
| 03:48 | <CIA-5> | OpenTTD: peter1138 * r11956 /trunk/src/ (station_cmd.cpp water_cmd.cpp): -Fix [FS#1675]: Disallow building locks and docks on rapids. |
| 03:48 | <SquireJames> | thought so |
| 03:48 | <SquireJames> | so, if 000AA9C7 is 1919 |
| 03:48 | <Gonozal_VIII> | the bytes are the other way around in the nfo... endianness thing... |
| 03:48 | <@peter1138> | 8:48... ops |
| 03:48 | <dih> | go peter1138 go |
| 03:48 | <SquireJames> | ah so in the NFO |
| 03:48 | -!- | peter1138 [~petern@217.151.109.242] has quit [Quit: work] |
| 03:48 | <SquireJames> | 000AA9C7 would be C7 A9 A0 OO ? |
| 03:49 | <Tefad> | four digits of hex cannot be larger than 65535 |
| 03:49 | <Gonozal_VIII> | look at line 3993 |
| 03:49 | <SquireJames> | wilco |
| 03:49 | <Rubidium> | SquireJames: better 'just' used \w<decimal number> |
| 03:49 | <Rubidium> | or there might even be a year-month-day thingy, but I don't know whether that outputs 'long dates' |
| 03:49 | <Gonozal_VIII> | tefad, it's 8 digits of hex |
| 03:50 | <SquireJames> | 3370 * 14 02 00 03 82 B4 00 FF 01 02 00 00 05 11 00 |
| 03:50 | <Tefad> | hm i'm so confused |
| 03:50 | <SquireJames> | ah scratch that |
| 03:50 | <Tefad> | between character encoding, base conversions... |
| 03:50 | <SquireJames> | sorry wrong line, going by lines in the document |
| 03:50 | <Gonozal_VIII> | hint: it starts with 3993 |
| 03:50 | <Gonozal_VIII> | ^^ |
| 03:50 | <SquireJames> | 3993 * 10 00 00 01 01 00 2A C7 A9 0A 00 |
| 03:51 | <SquireJames> | well my program lists the line of the document (line 1 for example) first |
| 03:51 | <SquireJames> | hence I misread it |
| 03:51 | <Gonozal_VIII> | [09:48:50][09:48:50] SquireJames: 000AA9C7 would be C7 A9 A0 OO ? <-- see... it's right there |
| 03:51 | <SquireJames> | ah ha, I see it :) |
| 03:52 | <SquireJames> | so, changing that to another already defined number (i,e i want it to appear in 1902, same as the 4-4-0 is easy |
| 03:52 | <Gonozal_VIII> | but 00, not OO^^ |
| 03:52 | <SquireJames> | buuut |
| 03:52 | <SquireJames> | (yes, sorry syntax mistake there) |
| 03:52 | <SquireJames> | how does one define, for example, 1885 |
| 03:52 | -!- | Vikthor [~Vikthor@212.24.150.226] has joined #openttd |
| 03:52 | <Gonozal_VIII> | i guess just removing that line could do the trick |
| 03:53 | <SquireJames> | well according to the wiki |
| 03:53 | <Gonozal_VIII> | if you meant 1920, not 1902... |
| 03:54 | <SquireJames> | 701265 is 1920, and we have discovered that 698823 is 1919 |
| 03:54 | <SquireJames> | no, the 4-4-0 appears in 1902 |
| 03:54 | <SquireJames> | so, i find the Long format date that references the 4-4-0 |
| 03:54 | <SquireJames> | and copy the date over to the Saddle Tank |
| 03:55 | <SquireJames> | but, i don't want either of them to appear in 1902, to be precise i want the saddle tank to appear in 1903, when the first Hunslet 0-4-0 was made, and i want the 4-4-0 to date back prior to 1900 |
| 03:56 | <SquireJames> | so, if 701265 is 1920, and 698823 is 1919 |
| 03:56 | <SquireJames> | the difference between them is 2442 |
| 03:56 | <Gonozal_VIII> | 0x000A7051 (684113) that's 1873 |
| 03:56 | <SquireJames> | question then, how does one know what number is what year |
| 03:56 | <DaleStan> | If I thought it would do any good, I'd point out that the spec contains interesting information about how to type dates and get them automatically converted into the correct numbers. |
| 03:57 | <LA[lord]> | 694595 is about 1903 |
| 03:57 | <LA[lord]> | 365*1903 |
| 03:57 | <Gonozal_VIII> | Set the vehicle introduction date, in days since the year 0 |
| 03:57 | <Gonozal_VIII> | calculate :P |
| 03:57 | <SquireJames> | ah i see |
| 03:57 | <SquireJames> | I thought it might be something like that |
| 03:57 | <LA[lord]> | because there are 364 days in year.. it's somewhat inaccurae |
| 03:57 | <SquireJames> | so, long format date uses year 0 as a start point |
| 03:57 | <LA[lord]> | yes |
| 03:57 | <SquireJames> | whereas normal format uses 1920? |
| 03:58 | <LA[lord]> | dunno |
| 03:58 | <Gonozal_VIII> | yes |
| 03:58 | <SquireJames> | well, according to the wiki, its usually number of days since 1920 |
| 03:58 | <SquireJames> | ah good, finally i grasp something |
| 03:58 | <LA[lord]> | and long format is number of days from 0 ? |
| 03:58 | <SquireJames> | apparently |
| 03:58 | <LA[lord]> | year 0* |
| 03:59 | <LA[lord]> | Long format introduction date (2A)Set the vehicle introduction date, in days since the year 0. |
| 04:00 | <Gonozal_VIII> | it's all documented in the link i posted earlier :P |
| 04:00 | <SquireJames> | so, technically, if you set the 0-4-0 to appear in 389090 it would appear intime for the Battle of Hastings :) |
| 04:00 | <SquireJames> | but one must convert 389090 to hex first |
| 04:00 | <Gonozal_VIII> | and turn it around |
| 04:00 | <SquireJames> | (and it assumes you can set the game that far back but i digress) |
| 04:00 | <LA[lord]> | btw 694595 is a9943 in hex -> 43 99 0a 00 |
| 04:00 | <SquireJames> | ah yes, indeed |
| 04:01 | <SquireJames> | but hex conversion is relatively easy using the calculator right |
| 04:01 | <LA[lord]> | yes |
| 04:01 | <SquireJames> | just enter your number and then hit hex |
| 04:01 | <Gonozal_VIII> | you can start the game in year 0 |
| 04:01 | <LA[lord]> | that's what I did :P |
| 04:01 | <SquireJames> | (if my lessons in hexidecimal serve me right) |
| 04:01 | <SquireJames> | hehe, interesting but youd need one hell of a vehicle set! |
| 04:02 | <LA[lord]> | chariot.. |
| 04:02 | <LA[lord]> | horses |
| 04:02 | <Gonozal_VIII> | guys that carry stuff on their backs^^ |
| 04:02 | <SquireJames> | Well, its been a pet project of mine to slide the game back to 1870 something |
| 04:03 | <Gonozal_VIII> | serbian rail set starts in 1873 |
| 04:03 | <SquireJames> | with a number of trains, a horse drawn tram and omnibus, some clipper ships and early steamers |
| 04:03 | <SquireJames> | well, i would use that but im not Serbian ;) |
| 04:03 | <Gonozal_VIII> | ships are problematic without engine pool |
| 04:03 | <Gonozal_VIII> | only 11 of them... |
| 04:03 | <SquireJames> | i'd rather have me Stirling Singles :) |
| 04:03 | <SquireJames> | indeed |
| 04:04 | <SquireJames> | heres a more advanced, theoretical question |
| 04:04 | <LA[lord]> | "guys that carry stuff on their backs^^" >> slaves |
| 04:04 | <LA[lord]> | top speed 5 km/h |
| 04:04 | <Gonozal_VIII> | hehe |
| 04:04 | <SquireJames> | ive heard its possible to configure grfs so, for example, the same train built in 1945 would have different stats to the one identical built in 1925 |
| 04:04 | <SquireJames> | using date based changes along the same lines as livery changes |
| 04:04 | <Gonozal_VIII> | first engine in the serbian set has top speed 16 km/h :-) |
| 04:05 | <LA[lord]> | SquireJames: It's controlled by action7/9 |
| 04:05 | <SquireJames> | so, with this in mind |
| 04:05 | <DaleStan> | LA[lord]: No, it's not. |
| 04:05 | <Gonozal_VIII> | action 2 i think |
| 04:06 | <SquireJames> | would it not be possible to have a single sailing ship, and have it change at certain dates into one with new graphics (as per livery change) and new stats |
| 04:06 | <SquireJames> | getting around the 11 ship rule? |
| 04:06 | <SquireJames> | so, yes you couldn't build a Tea Clipper in 1930 because the Tea Clipper has changed into a Steam, Steel Hulled Cargo Freighter |
| 04:06 | <LA[lord]> | DaleStan: action7/9 to skip the sprites if certain year I meant.. |
| 04:07 | <LA[lord]> | and have another set for differnet years |
| 04:07 | <DaleStan> | But that's not how trains with different stats in different build years are done. |
| 04:07 | <SquireJames> | through date and livery changes. Even if the name didn't change, you could atleast just call it "Cargo Ship" |
| 04:07 | <SquireJames> | I know that |
| 04:07 | <SquireJames> | I just heard talk of it |
| 04:07 | <LA[lord]> | but you can do it, can't you.. just have to reload grfs :P |
| 04:07 | -!- | peter1138 [~petern@petern.bnsnet.co.uk] has joined #openttd |
| 04:07 | -!- | mode/#openttd [+o peter1138] by ChanServ |
| 04:07 | <SquireJames> | and wondered if it were possible to kind of, roll over unused sprite ids with this idea |
| 04:08 | <SquireJames> | so, say for example, by 1980 you don't let the player build 0-4-0 Hunslets any more |
| 04:08 | <SquireJames> | that id could be, using the grf date based changes, into a Diesel Shunter |
| 04:08 | <@peter1138> | heh |
| 04:08 | <@peter1138> | sprite ids are not a problem |
| 04:09 | <SquireJames> | well, vehicle ids, sorry |
| 04:09 | <Gonozal_VIII> | the idea is not bad but that nice guy that just joined is working on something better^^ |
| 04:09 | <LA[lord]> | better use peter1138's 'Engine pools' patch |
| 04:09 | <DaleStan> | LA[lord]: Not unless you want all vehicles to get the new stats in 1945. |
| 04:09 | <SquireJames> | (I get confused) |
| 04:09 | <LA[lord]> | DaleStan: Have I stated something opposite? |
| 04:09 | <DaleStan> | If you want just the vehicles that built after 1945 to get new stats, then you can't use 7/9. |
| 04:09 | <LA[lord]> | all trains get repaired |
| 04:09 | <SquireJames> | well, if theres something better being made then good :) It was just an idea that bounced around in my head since i heard it was possible |
| 04:10 | <SquireJames> | actually, 7/9 could be used to "refit" locos automatically |
| 04:10 | <DaleStan> | You use action 2, like Gonozal_VIII said. |
| 04:10 | <SquireJames> | for example, removing the streamlining from Merchant Navies |
| 04:10 | <LA[lord]> | DaleStan: Useless arguing ^^ |
| 04:10 | <SquireJames> | or automatically changing A1 4-6-2s into A3 in 1945 |
| 04:11 | <@peter1138> | action 7/9 cannot be used to change things dynamically |
| 04:11 | <LA[lord]> | yes |
| 04:11 | <LA[lord]> | have to reload grfs |
| 04:11 | |
