| --- | Log | opened Tue Jan 15 00:00:31 2008 |
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| 02:16 | <@peter1138> | morning |
| 02:17 | <rygrass> | afteernoon |
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| 02:23 | <LA[lord]> | morning |
| 02:24 | <LA[lord]> | I managed to breath in a big quantity of CO thius morning.. |
| 02:24 | <LA[lord]> | so I won't be going to school |
| 02:24 | <LA[lord]> | atleast now... |
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| 02:32 | <@peter1138> | er, whoops? |
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| 02:42 | <LA[lord]_> | !logs |
| 02:42 | <SpComb> | Logs: http://spbot.marttila.de:8120/logs/oftc-ottd (old: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd ) |
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| 03:14 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: peter1138 * r11858 /trunk/src/widgets/dropdown.cpp: -Fix (r1679): Mask and rule colour in drop down lists using wrong source value. (r1679 partially reverted r1368) |
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| 04:06 | * | Rubidium ponders what 'a big quantity' is |
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| 04:25 | <SmatZ> | morning |
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| 05:28 | <egladil> | [15 03:57 CET][15 03:57 CET] Belugas ln, yopu might want to share your findings and maybe your patches with bjarni an egladil <== share :) |
| 05:37 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: peter1138 * r11859 /trunk/src/ (newgrf_station.cpp newgrf_station.h rail_gui.cpp): -Codechange: Update newgrf station class dropdown to use new method of generating list. |
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| 06:01 | <ln-> | egladil: the nightlies cannot be executed on Leopard, http://lists.apple.com/archives/X11-users/2007/Dec/msg00332.html |
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| 06:01 | <rave> | hi |
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| 06:03 | <egladil> | okies |
| 06:03 | <@peter1138> | ... |
| 06:04 | <egladil> | that means the compile farm has to be updated (again)... |
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| 06:34 | <dihedral> | good (?:(?:mor|eve)ning|afternoon) |
| 06:35 | <@peter1138> | good day |
| 06:36 | <Forked> | g'day :) |
| 06:36 | <Rubidium> | oh noes |
| 06:37 | <@peter1138> | oh? |
| 06:37 | <Rubidium> | isn't 'oh noes' #openttd slang for hello? |
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| 06:38 | <@peter1138> | i don't know |
| 06:39 | <pv2b> | dihedral: add good day and good night to that regex :-) |
| 06:43 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: peter1138 * r11860 /trunk/src/station_cmd.cpp: -Fix: Test station class validity against number of classes, not abosolute limit. |
| 06:45 | <dihedral> | anybody got a good idea how i can split an integer into all separate bits? |
| 06:45 | <LA[no_school_today]> | nope:P |
| 06:45 | <dihedral> | go to school LA |
| 06:45 | <LA[no_school_today]> | can't |
| 06:45 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: smatz * r11861 /trunk/src/tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp: -Fix: do not call rail specific functions when removing road tunnel/bridge |
| 06:45 | <dihedral> | you can - you just dont _have_ to |
| 06:45 | <LA[no_school_today]> | I breathed in alot CO this morning, and I'm kinda out of rails today |
| 06:46 | <LA[no_school_today]> | so I have to, but can't |
| 06:46 | <dihedral> | co? |
| 06:46 | <LA[no_school_today]> | like CO2 |
| 06:46 | <SmatZ> | LA[no_school_today]: do you breath CO for fun? |
| 06:46 | <dihedral> | carbon monoxide? |
| 06:46 | <LA[no_school_today]> | yup |
| 06:46 | <dihedral> | have another snuff - obviously was not enough |
| 06:46 | <SmatZ> | :D |
| 06:47 | <dihedral> | :-P |
| 06:47 | <dihedral> | c'mon you code junkies... |
| 06:47 | <LA[no_school_today]> | actually my brother tried cooking and it didn't work out so well.. And he didn't open the windows |
| 06:47 | <SmatZ> | :-x |
| 06:47 | <LA[no_school_today]> | so I woke up in a blue smoke |
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| 06:47 | <dihedral> | interger split up into it's bits |
| 06:48 | <pv2b> | dihedral: an integer into seperate bits? |
| 06:48 | <dihedral> | fast and efficient |
| 06:48 | <dihedral> | 5 = 4 and 1 |
| 06:48 | <pv2b> | the naive way would be something like |
| 06:48 | <dihedral> | and processing a string is the last thing i want to do |
| 06:49 | <pv2b> | def tobinary(x) { if (x & 1) s = "1"; else s = "0"; return tobinary(x>>2).s; } |
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| 06:50 | <dihedral> | yes - and i want to process that for i dont know how high it goes |
| 06:50 | <pv2b> | dihedral: what do you mean? |
| 06:50 | <dihedral> | i dont want to process it like that |
| 06:51 | <pv2b> | you can just keep it around in an integer and process it bit by bit. accessing individual bits in an integer isn't that hard |
| 06:51 | <dihedral> | yes - but isn't that nice either |
| 06:51 | <dihedral> | ^^ |
| 06:51 | <pv2b> | !!(x & (1 << n)) where n is the integer will give you the binary digit at the position n in the integer x |
| 06:52 | <pv2b> | you can wrap that in some syntactic sugar if you want |
| 06:52 | <pv2b> | depends which language you're writing in |
| 06:52 | <dihedral> | a language that actually does not have all that much 'syntactic sugar' |
| 06:52 | <dihedral> | php ^^ |
| 06:52 | <pv2b> | oh. :-) |
| 06:52 | <pv2b> | even php has functions though |
| 06:53 | <dihedral> | it close to _only_ has functions |
| 06:54 | <pv2b> | get_bit(x,n) { return (x & (1<<n)) ? 1 : 0; } |
| 06:54 | <pv2b> | my php is syntax is a bit rusty but you know what i mean |
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| 06:56 | <pv2b> | or just write it in pic assembler instead. then you can use BSF, BCF, BTFSS and BTFSC ;-) |
| 06:56 | <dihedral> | lol |
| 06:57 | <pv2b> | btw, counting the number of digits in a binary number is pretty easy to do with a binary (pun not intended) search |
| 06:57 | <pv2b> | or if you're lazy you could just use a logarithm |
| 07:03 | <dihedral> | and the highest set bit? |
| 07:03 | <dihedral> | so in your example n = 0 to highest set bit |
| 07:03 | <pv2b> | highest set bit in php |
| 07:03 | <dihedral> | the ugliest i could think of would be strlen( bindec( x ) ) |
| 07:03 | <pv2b> | floor(log(x, 2)) |
| 07:03 | <pv2b> | ;-) |
| 07:04 | <pv2b> | that might not work very well though, floating point rounding and stuff |
| 07:04 | <dihedral> | for the example of 5 that retunes 2 |
| 07:04 | <dihedral> | and that clearly is not correct ^^ |
| 07:04 | <pv2b> | 5 = 101 |
| 07:04 | <pv2b> | bit number 2 is the msb |
| 07:05 | <dihedral> | right |
| 07:05 | <dihedral> | hehe |
| 07:05 | <dihedral> | true |
| 07:05 | * | dihedral slaps himself |
| 07:05 | <pv2b> | but don't actually use that method, you'll run into trouble with large numbers |
| 07:05 | <pv2b> | can you describe what you're trying to do rather than asking how to do what you think is the right solution? :-) |
| 07:06 | <dihedral> | ^^ |
| 07:06 | <dihedral> | i have a table in an sql db where a history is stored of actions done via the admin frontend |
| 07:07 | <dihedral> | actions are stored bit wise |
| 07:07 | <pv2b> | what's the structure of the bitfield? |
| 07:07 | <dihedral> | so - reading a certain customer ticket could be action 4 |
| 07:07 | <dihedral> | writing = 1 |
| 07:07 | <dihedral> | so changing the ticket = 5 |
| 07:07 | <pv2b> | so, why don't you just do something like |
| 07:08 | <reto_> | hmm.. why do you store bitfileds in a sql table? |
| 07:08 | <reto_> | why don't you use boolean fields? |
| 07:08 | <pv2b> | ticket_read = bf & 4 |
| 07:08 | <pv2b> | ticket_written = bf & 1 |
| 07:08 | <dihedral> | action & 5 in the sql statement to get the last write access of customer tickets |
| 07:08 | <reto_> | I have just read the last sentence, I dont no the context |
| 07:08 | <dihedral> | will also return 4 |
| 07:08 | <dihedral> | because 5 & 4 = 4 |
| 07:08 | <@peter1138> | bit :D |
| 07:08 | <@peter1138> | stores a 1 or a 0 |
| 07:09 | <@peter1138> | let the sql server handle the storage |
| 07:09 | <@peter1138> | on the other hand |
| 07:09 | <pv2b> | peter1138: i don't think he's in the position to change the schema :-/ |
| 07:09 | <@peter1138> | i've know people store boolean values as varchars with the values "True" and "False" ... |
| 07:09 | <@peter1138> | +n |
| 07:09 | <dihedral> | ouch |
| 07:09 | <dihedral> | no |
| 07:09 | <reto_> | :) |
| 07:09 | <dihedral> | it's an integer field |
| 07:09 | <pv2b> | peter1138: :-D.. |
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| 07:10 | <dihedral> | makes it easier to read when you need to run selects on the command line ^^ |
| 07:10 | <reto_> | a great |
| 07:10 | <pv2b> | dihedral: ok, so you have the integer field. now what do you want to know about it? whether somebody wrote to the customer record or what? |
| 07:10 | <dihedral> | it's easier to catch it in the method that builds the query |
| 07:10 | <reto_> | lets wag the dog |
| 07:11 | <dihedral> | i want to get the last write access for a certain action |
| 07:11 | <dihedral> | as there are custom action 'ids' |
| 07:11 | <dihedral> | i.e. > 1024 |
| 07:11 | <dihedral> | which will be defined by 1024 | 4 = custom action of customer ticket |
| 07:11 | <pv2b> | hm |
| 07:12 | <dihedral> | 1024 | 4 | 1 = custom action of customer ticket was a write ^^ |
| 07:12 | <dihedral> | assume 1024 was a note one could attach to the ticket |
| 07:12 | <dihedral> | then 1024 | 4 was read |
| 07:12 | <dihedral> | 1024 | 4 | 1 was write |
| 07:13 | <dihedral> | and 1024 | 8 could be something completetly different ^^ |
| 07:13 | <pv2b> | that sounds like a rather convoluted design |
| 07:13 | <@peter1138> | let's store openttd's data in sql! |
| 07:13 | <pv2b> | or you're not explaining it so i understand it :-) |
| 07:13 | <dihedral> | that could well be true ^^ |
| 07:13 | <dihedral> | both in fact could be true ^^ |
| 07:14 | <pv2b> | i'm not an epert with SQL but couldn't you use a SQL where clause to test for that? |
| 07:14 | <pv2b> | or doesnt the WHERE clause support bitwise operators? |
| 07:14 | <dihedral> | yes |
| 07:14 | <dihedral> | that is what i tried to explain earlier |
| 07:14 | <dihedral> | say field = 4 |
| 07:14 | <dihedral> | and i do where field & 5 |
| 07:14 | <dihedral> | i still get the records returned where field = 4 |
| 07:14 | <dihedral> | as 4 & 5 = 4 |
| 07:15 | <pv2b> | yes. |
| 07:15 | <pv2b> | so what's the problem? :-) |
| 07:15 | <dihedral> | but i also want to know about the fields where &1024 |
| 07:15 | <dihedral> | or greater |
| 07:15 | <dihedral> | so rather than changing a bunch of code or the db and a bunch of code |
| 07:15 | <pv2b> | can't you just do <pseudo code) WHERE (field&1023) & 5 |
| 07:15 | <dihedral> | i thought i'd split up the int when it hits the method where the statement is built |
| 07:15 | <pv2b> | or WHERE (field & 5) OR field > 1024 |
| 07:16 | <dihedral> | the method only is passed one int |
| 07:16 | <dihedral> | hence i want to split it up |
| 07:16 | <pv2b> | so.... split it up |
| 07:16 | <dihedral> | so then i can build a where field = bit for every bit set in int |
| 07:17 | <dihedral> | sorry |
| 07:17 | <dihedral> | where field & bit |
| 07:17 | <pv2b> | or just or the bits together frst |
| 07:17 | <dihedral> | i.e. select * from table where field & 1 and field & 4 |
| 07:17 | <pv2b> | whre field & 5 == 5 |
| 07:17 | <dihedral> | field & (1|4) |
| 07:18 | <pv2b> | field & 5 isn't the same as field & 5 = 5 |
| 07:18 | <dihedral> | with == 5 i deont get those fields that are 1024 | 4 | 1 |
| 07:18 | <dihedral> | and it does not end with 1024 |
| 07:18 | <pv2b> | so then use an or. |
| 07:18 | <dihedral> | it does not give the the result's that i am looking for in the sql select |
| 07:20 | <pv2b> | ok, just a minute. you want to find lines in the table where bitfield matches which conditions (in plain english) |
| 07:20 | <dihedral> | yep |
| 07:20 | <dihedral> | but 4 & 5 is a match |
| 07:20 | <pv2b> | that was not plain english |
| 07:20 | <pv2b> | what do you want to look for |
| 07:21 | <dihedral> | where every bit in 5 is set |
| 07:21 | <pv2b> | field & 5 == 5 |
| 07:21 | <dihedral> | no |
| 07:21 | <pv2b> | yes |
| 07:21 | <dihedral> | because then 1024 | 4 | 1 will not match |
| 07:21 | <pv2b> | yes it will |
| 07:21 | <pv2b> | 1024|4|1 & 5 == 5 |
| 07:23 | <pv2b> | per-von-zweigbergks-powerbook-g4-15:~ pvz$ php -r 'print (1024|4|1)&5;print "\n";' |
| 07:23 | <pv2b> | 5 |
| 07:23 | * | dihedral slaps himself again |
| 07:23 | <dihedral> | heh - i have a g4 powerbook 12" |
| 07:23 | <dihedral> | ^^ |
| 07:25 | <dihedral> | thanks pv2b... |
| 07:25 | <pv2b> | np :-) |
| 07:25 | <dihedral> | dont ask me why i was thinking it would not work... |
| 07:25 | <pv2b> | php rots your brain |
| 07:25 | <pv2b> | that's why |
| 07:25 | <dihedral> | LOL |
| 07:25 | <pv2b> | perfecly intelligent people become iditos when coding in php :-) |
| 07:26 | <dihedral> | thanks a bunch |
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| 07:39 | <dihedral> | !players |
| 07:39 | <dihedral> | !playercount |
| 07:39 | <dihedral> | oh |
| 07:39 | <dihedral> | heh |
| 07:39 | * | dihedral smiles |
| 07:41 | -!- | GoneWacko [~gonewacko@dhcp-077-249-197-241.chello.nl] has joined #openttd |
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| 07:58 | <roboboy> | gnight soon |
| 07:58 | <dihedral> | who is 'soon'? |
| 07:59 | <Rubidium> | maybe it's his imported Thai wife |
| 07:59 | <dihedral> | lol |
| 08:01 | <dihedral> | the sentance i link to the word 'soon' and this channel is 'not in the near future' ^^ |
| 08:03 | -!- | frosch123 [~mtce@kolmogoroff.math.tu-clausthal.de] has joined #openttd |
| 08:03 | <frosch123> | Hello everyone |
| 08:04 | <dihedral> | quak |
| 08:04 | <Rubidium> | do I hear a duck tour there? |
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| 08:07 | <LA[no_school_today]> | no, rubidium, it was dih |
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| 08:07 | -!- | Deathmaker [~Miranda@dslb-082-083-203-121.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd |
| 08:07 | * | LA[no_school_today] can't say 'just dih' :S |
| 08:07 | -!- | LA[no_school_today] is now known as LA[lord] |
| 08:09 | <dihedral> | Rubidium: you want to tell me where you get the link between FROSH123 and a DUCK? |
| 08:10 | <Rubidium> | dihedral: no, I can tell you the link between 'quak' and duck tour though |
| 08:12 | <dihedral> | i used the german |
| 08:12 | <dihedral> | so you confuse german frogs with ducks? |
| 08:13 | <Rubidium> | no, I assumed English (with a typo) |
| 08:13 | <Rubidium> | quak -> quack -> a sound closely related to the duck tours |
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| 08:15 | <dihedral> | i can understand that |
| 08:15 | <dihedral> | i mix up japanese and chinese too ^^ |
| 08:16 | <Rubidium> | that's not hard because they share a fair share of Kanji |
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| 08:18 | <roboboy> | when did the saving still in progress please wait message get added? Does it matter if one closes i, and what does it actually mean by please wait? |
| 08:19 | <frosch123> | roboboy: The debug feature you mention was removed last night, just wait for the next nightly. |
| 08:19 | <roboboy> | ok |
| 08:20 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: rubidium * r11862 /trunk/src/ (8 files in 2 dirs): |
| 08:20 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: -Fix [FS#1559]: when two NewGRFs 'fight' to define the same cargo it could |
| 08:20 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: happen that the strings are defined by one cargo and the 'action2' by another |
| 08:20 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: and when one assumes that both come from the same NewGRF... So store the GRF ID |
| 08:20 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: with the strings. To be extra sure add the same protection mechanism to |
| 08:20 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: industries and towns too. |
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| 08:21 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: peter1138 * r11863 /trunk/src/widgets/dropdown.cpp: -Fix (r11848): One day I'll learn C++... Delete all items in a drop down list before deleting the list. |
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| 08:33 | <roboboy> | I wonder if I cn get a real media plugin for firefox without installing realplayer |
| 08:34 | <roboboy> | gnight |
| 08:34 | * | Hendikins plays a 64x2048 map |
| 08:34 | <@peter1138> | :o |
| 08:35 | <Hendikins> | I've got one loooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong island |
| 08:35 | <Hendikins> | Which is actually going to be quite fun to play with once I clear off my debt and get a line running end to end |
| 08:36 | <keyweed> | an no need for large complicated hubs |
| 08:36 | <keyweed> | *and |
| 08:36 | <roboboy> | I once tried it with a loop and each station was a cross member |
| 08:36 | -!- | TinoDidriksen [~projectjj@users.kollegienet.dk] has joined #openttd |
| 08:37 | <Hendikins> | keyweed: Just one long main line, balloon loop at each end, and some branches |
| 08:37 | <keyweed> | Hendikins: yup. that will work |
| 08:37 | <keyweed> | Hendikins: untill you reach the maximum capacity of your long main line |
| 08:37 | <Hendikins> | So you quad track it and have stuff going from one branch to another |
| 08:37 | <Hendikins> | It can be made to work :) |
| 08:38 | <keyweed> | yeah. i think it will. |
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| 08:39 | <Hendikins> | Might require being a bit creative |
| 08:43 | <LA[lord]> | Hendikins: how many industries/towns? |
| 08:43 | <Hendikins> | LA[lord]: High/Normal |
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| 08:44 | -!- | mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ |
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| 08:46 | <Forked> | hmm me and a buddy have a co-op 8192x128 going :) |
| 08:46 | -!- | pavel1269 [~pavel.g@48.140.broadband2.iol.cz] has joined #openttd |
| 08:48 | * | Hendikins makes use of DebtMax technology to speed things up |
| 08:50 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | for my next game i need industries with little output and villages that have near to no growth |
| 08:50 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | then play with high/high |
| 08:51 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | so i can actually have small branch lines and truck transport to hub stations |
| 08:53 | -!- | TinoDidriksen [~projectjj@users.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds] |
| 08:56 | <Hendikins> | mmmm, 5 coal mines close together and quite a distance from where I'm dumping the coal. mmmmmmmmmmm. |
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| 09:04 | <rave> | is it distance between the resources or distance between the stations that affects profit? |
| 09:04 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | stations |
| 09:05 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | Hendikins: yeah, that is the plan ;) |
| 09:05 | <rave> | are you sure? wow |
| 09:05 | <LA[lord]> | anyone familiar with a program graphics gale? |
| 09:05 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | rave: yes i'm sure |
| 09:06 | <rave> | thanks |
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| 09:18 | -!- | Gonozal_VIII [user@cm56-182-132.liwest.at] has joined #openttd |
| 09:22 | <LA[lord]> | hey Gonozal_VIII :) |
| 09:23 | <Gonozal_VIII> | hi |
| 09:24 | * | Hendikins watches his train profits jump 7x within 2 years |
| 09:24 | -!- | Sacro [~Sacro@adsl-87-102-119-5.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd |
| 09:25 | <Gonozal_VIII> | jump? |
| 09:26 | <Gonozal_VIII> | sacro, jumpQ |
| 09:26 | <Gonozal_VIII> | ! |
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| 09:27 | <Gonozal_VIII> | hehehehehe |
| 09:27 | <Gonozal_VIII> | yay, if i say jump he jumps |
| 09:27 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | at least you have to give him a dog-cookie now |
| 09:27 | <Sacro> | :( |
| 09:27 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | see his face? |
| 09:28 | * | Gonozal_VIII gives sacro a cookie |
| 09:28 | <Sacro> | ^^ |
| 09:28 | <Sacro> | omnomnom |
| 09:29 | <Gonozal_VIII> | can you recycle empty cyanide bottles? |
| 09:29 | <Gonozal_VIII> | got some here from my last cookie baking.. |
| 09:30 | <Hendikins> | Gonozal_VIII: $450k to ~$3.2mil within 2 years. Not huge sums, but for a new/small company, not bad either. |
| 09:30 | <Gonozal_VIII> | ah i see |
| 09:30 | * | Hendikins pieces his trunk line together |
| 09:30 | <Gonozal_VIII> | mine often jump infinity times in 1920 |
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| 09:49 | <frosch123> | DaleStan: Is there an easy way to find out whether variables in /inc/newvehdata.inc are signed or unsigned? Except looking at the code where they are used. |
| 09:55 | <DaleStan> | frosch123: Not really, but TTDPatch, for most purposes, only does signed integers in the same places that TTD does them. |
| 09:55 | <frosch123> | thanks |
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| 10:00 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: smatz * r11864 /trunk/src/ (9 files): -Codechange: pass owner whose signals we will update instead of complex detection later |
| 10:03 | -!- | Nukebuster [~wouter@a62-251-21-79.adsl.xs4all.nl] has joined #openttd |
| 10:09 | <ln-> | http://www.ethnio.com/blog/uploaded_images/Untitled-1-717289.jpg |
| 10:10 | <Gonozal_VIII> | hehehe |
| 10:10 | <rave> | does the cargo delivery timer start when a train leaves a station or arrives? |
| 10:10 | <Gonozal_VIII> | when it finishes loading |
| 10:11 | <rave> | even if there isn't cargo waiting at the station? |
| 10:12 | <Gonozal_VIII> | why would it matter then? |
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| 10:12 | <dihedral> | LOL ln- |
| 10:12 | <Gonozal_VIII> | oh, you got the rest of your nick back dih |
| 10:13 | -!- | Farden [jk3farden@freenull.net] has joined #openttd |
| 10:14 | -!- | dihedral is now known as dih |
| 10:15 | <dih> | ^^ |
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| 10:19 | <Hendikins> | Hrm, 412 days in each direction |
| 10:20 | <Hendikins> | At 144km/h |
| 10:21 | <Gonozal_VIII> | @calc 412*24*144 |
| 10:21 | <@DorpsGek> | Gonozal_VIII: 1423872 |
| 10:22 | <Hendikins> | 1.4 million km. Impressive. |
| 10:22 | <Hendikins> | Probably better suited to maglev though |
| 10:23 | <Gonozal_VIII> | @calc 1423872/40075 |
| 10:23 | <@DorpsGek> | Gonozal_VIII: 35.5301809108 |
| 10:23 | <Gonozal_VIII> | 35,5times around the world :-) |
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| 10:29 | -!- | fjb [~frank@p5485FECC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd |
| 10:29 | <fjb> | Moin |
| 10:29 | <dih> | moin |
| 10:30 | <Gonozal_VIII> | ii |
| 10:30 | <Gonozal_VIII> | hi |
| 10:31 | <Gonozal_VIII> | dbset is very chaotic |
| 10:31 | <Gonozal_VIII> | xl |
| 10:31 | <fjb> | :-) |
| 10:31 | <fjb> | In what way? |
| 10:31 | <Gonozal_VIII> | i tried to extract only the transrapid |
| 10:32 | <Gonozal_VIII> | parts of that are all over the place... |
| 10:32 | <fjb> | Oh, you mean the source. |
| 10:33 | <fjb> | I guess Michael never intended that somebody looks into the grf. |
| 10:33 | <dih> | @seen Bjarni |
| 10:33 | <@DorpsGek> | dih: Bjarni was last seen in #openttd 15 hours, 41 minutes, and 11 seconds ago: <Bjarni> goodnight |
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| 10:36 | <Gonozal_VIII> | i guess he had comments... |
| 10:37 | <Rubidium> | and a preprocessor |
| 10:37 | <fjb> | Maybe he stripped them before releasing the grf. |
| 10:37 | <fjb> | :-) |
| 10:37 | <Rubidium> | there are two types of comments and only one gets into the grf |
| 10:37 | <Gonozal_VIII> | the normal // comments are removed by the codec |
| 10:38 | <Ammler> | Action 0c |
| 10:38 | <dih> | hello Ammler |
| 10:38 | <Ammler> | :) |
| 10:38 | <dih> | how was it? |
| 10:39 | <Ammler> | how was what? |
| 10:39 | <Gonozal_VIII> | what's a preprocessor? |
| 10:39 | <dih> | that swiss army stuff |
| 10:39 | <fjb> | I saw and nfo assembler and a kind of compiler released the last weeks. Is anybody using them? |
| 10:39 | <Ammler> | suxx |
| 10:39 | <dih> | still on? |
| 10:39 | <Ammler> | hmm, not atm |
| 10:39 | <Ammler> | but I need still about 30 days to spent there |
| 10:39 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | fjb: the "compiler" is hardly finished... |
| 10:40 | <dih> | you get to go home in the evenings? |
| 10:40 | <Gonozal_VIII> | grf2html helps a lot with reading grfs |
| 10:40 | <Ammler> | not usually, but you can get a permission |
| 10:40 | <fjb> | Gonozal_VIII: Something like that: http://www.gnu.org/software/m4/m4.html |
| 10:41 | <fjb> | Eddi|zuHause3: Ah, you are the author of the compiler. I didn't look at it yet. |
| 10:41 | <Ammler> | those 30 days will be spent there later (sommer or next year), for now, I am done :-) |
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| 10:41 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | swiss army... that always reminds me of that movie... |
| 10:41 | <Gonozal_VIII> | you have to spend 30 days in the swiss army? |
| 10:42 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | "Achtung! Fertig! Charlie!" or so |
| 10:42 | <rave> | @help |
| 10:42 | <@DorpsGek> | rave: help [<plugin>] [<command>] |
| 10:42 | <rave> | help |
| 10:42 | <Gonozal_VIII> | do you have your own rifle to take home and shoot rats and guys that scratch your car with? |
| 10:43 | <Ammler> | Eddi|zuHause3: that was extreme, but quite real... |
| 10:44 | <Gonozal_VIII> | sig 500 or something like that |
| 10:46 | * | fjb can't await the next release of the new pbs patch. |
| 10:46 | <Gonozal_VIII> | yes, that sounds promising |
| 10:46 | <fjb> | It is fun to toy with. |
| 10:48 | <Gonozal_VIII> | i think presignals have to be removed for that, that just can't work with default red |
| 10:48 | <fjb> | I didn't have the urge to use presignals with pbs. |
| 10:48 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | why? presignals are mostly ignored, and show the state of the next real signal |
| 10:49 | <Gonozal_VIII> | hmmm |
| 10:49 | <fjb> | The common use of signals in TTD is not related to the real working of signals. |
| 10:49 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | presignals should stay mostly for backwards compatibility |
| 10:50 | <Gonozal_VIII> | i would just ditch signalling backwards compatibility with pbs |
| 10:51 | <fjb> | I could live without that bakward compatibility. But I fear many will complin that the signals are not like they used to be. |
| 10:51 | <Gonozal_VIII> | when loading an old game with that patch it should just convert all signals to pbs |
| 10:51 | <fjb> | Mixing both signal systems would lead to chaos, I guess. |
| 10:52 | <Gonozal_VIII> | all presignals.. not the defaults of course^^ |
| 10:52 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | i would not allow mixing, but i would allow a setting for using/simulating the old system |
| 10:53 | <Gonozal_VIII> | i guess a switch: default signal colour (red | green) should be enough |
| 10:53 | -!- | rave is now known as rave|wk |
| 10:54 | <Gonozal_VIII> | could even work with presignals then |
| 10:55 | <Gonozal_VIII> | well... not as intended... but without the locks that are there now |
| 10:55 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | default red with the current signalling... you would never need green signals then |
| 10:56 | <Gonozal_VIII> | no only for the pbs signals |
| 10:56 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | because green means "signal is reserved by a train that has not passed yet" |
| 10:57 | <Gonozal_VIII> | with green they would always be green yes... |
| 10:57 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | i have no idea what you are talking about |
| 10:58 | <Gonozal_VIII> | hehe |
| 10:58 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | "should be enough" <- for what? |
| 10:58 | <Gonozal_VIII> | pbs signals with default green are always green.. |
| 10:58 | <Gonozal_VIII> | to avoid those ever red presignals |
| 10:59 | <Gonozal_VIII> | and trains that won't come out of the depot |
| 10:59 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | i told how to solve that |
| 10:59 | <fjb> | "should be enough" always means for everybody. :-) |
| 10:59 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | train ignores presignal |
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| 11:00 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | presignal shows state of next real signal |
| 11:00 | <Gonozal_VIII> | hmm it could try to reserve a path further if there is a presignal and if it can't the presignal turns red and the train stops there |
| 11:01 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | if real signal turns out to show definite red (instead of idle red), train stops at presignal |
| 11:01 | <Gonozal_VIII> | yes^^ |
| 11:03 | <fjb> | Don't mix the real meaning of the term "presignal" and the the TTD meaning. That leads to confusion in discussions. |
| 11:03 | <Gonozal_VIII> | but the presignal should turn green then... i guess users would complain if the train sometimes passes the red signal and sometimes not... and it turns green after the train passed because the next signal is green and things like that^^ |
| 11:04 | <Gonozal_VIII> | there are no real presignals yet |
| 11:05 | <Gonozal_VIII> | hmm how do you make priorities with pbs? |
| 11:05 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | i'm talking about TTD (legacy) presignals |
| 11:06 | <@orudge> | TTD didn't have presignals |
| 11:06 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | i know |
| 11:07 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | but all TTD successors had them, and shared a similarly wrong nomenclature |
| 11:10 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | what is called "presignal" should probably be renamed to something like "entrance signal" |
| 11:11 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | "presignal" should come before the "entrance signal", and should signal "go slower, because next signal is red" |
| 11:11 | <Sacro> | like a repeater? |
| 11:11 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | i don't know what a repeater is |
| 11:12 | <Sacro> | :( |
| 11:13 | <Gonozal_VIII> | i think he means that yellow and double yellow signals he was talking about yesterday |
| 11:13 | <Sacro> | kind of |
| 11:13 | <Sacro> | except a repeater is tied to a main signal |
| 11:14 | <Gonozal_VIII> | that could be a way to get rid of those unrealistic instant stops |
| 11:14 | <Sacro> | yes, possibly |
| 11:14 | <Sacro> | well a train could maybe slow to 66% on a double and 33% ona yellow |
| 11:14 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | " Ist das Hauptsignal für den Triebfahrzeugführer, z. B. in einem Gleisbogen, nicht innerhalb von 300 m zu sehen, stehen zwischen dem Vor- und dem Hauptsignal ein oder mehrere Vorsignalwiederholer (Lichtsignal)" |
| 11:14 | <Gonozal_VIII> | it's kind of boring that no matter how bad you place your signals, your trains will never crash... |
| 11:15 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bild:Vr0_Licht_Wiederholer.jpg |
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| 11:16 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | if i understand this correctly, the meanings are like follows: |
| 11:16 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | double yellow: expect red |
| 11:16 | <Gonozal_VIII> | there should be light crashes where both trains have a breakdown but without total destruction |
| 11:16 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | double green: expect green |
| 11:16 | <Gonozal_VIII> | or only the last wagon destroyed.. |
| 11:16 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | yellow+green: expect slow green |
| 11:17 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | repeating signals have a white light next to them |
| 11:17 | <Sacro> | Eddi|zuHause3: depending on country |
| 11:18 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | of course ;) |
| 11:18 | <Sacro> | german signalling confuses me |
| 11:18 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | where would we get to if each country would not have at least one different system ;) |
| 11:18 | <Gonozal_VIII> | sprites could always be changed, that's not the problem |
| 11:18 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | germany has like 4 different signalling systems |
| 11:19 | <hylje> | Eddi|zuHause3: counting the signaling-without-the-signals system for fast trains and crowded track? |
| 11:19 | <Sacro> | britain has 2 |
| 11:19 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | hylje: i'm not really sure |
| 11:20 | <Sacro> | hylje: moving block |
| 11:22 | <Sacro> | bloody hell |
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| 11:22 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | "Signalsysteme: In Deutschland existieren derzeit bei der großen Bahn fünf verschiedene Signalsysteme" |
| 11:22 | <Sacro> | US has red, yellow, green, white, blue, purple |
| 11:24 | <Gonozal_VIII> | yellow and white... blue and purple... that's easy to misread with sunlight around |
| 11:26 | <hylje> | F40PH |
| 11:29 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | "Tip: Wer alle Signalsysteme auf einmal sehen will, fährt nach Hamburg oder (noch besser) Berlin. Dort sieht (sah) man auf der S1 von Wannsee nach Oranienburg Ks-Signale im Bahnhof Wannsee, Sv-Signale auf der Nordsüdbahn, H/V-Licht- und Formsignale auf dem nördlichen Abschnitt und ab der Stadtgrenze bis Oranienburg Hl-Signale. 5 Signalsysteme entlang einer S-Bahn-Linie, die Formsignale sind jedoch 1992 abgebaut worden!" |
| 11:30 | <Gonozal_VIII> | hehe |
| 11:30 | <hylje> | aaaaa, the german!! |
| 11:31 | <Gonozal_VIII> | tipp is written with 2p :-) |
| 11:31 | <ln-> | ti2p? |
| 11:31 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | it says there was a line in berlin where you could see 5 different signalling systems (not counting the "LZB" system without signals) |
| 11:33 | -!- | skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A49B5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd |
| 11:33 | * | dih hides |
| 11:34 | * | dih peeks to have a look if he can attack skidd13 |
| 11:34 | <Gonozal_VIII> | hi skidd15 |
| 11:34 | <toet> | pff cpu multi tasks ingame! >.> |
| 11:34 | <toet> | ai* |
| 11:34 | <Gonozal_VIII> | ski2d15 |
| 11:34 | * | skidd13 takes his machine gun out and spots possible enemys ;) |
| 11:35 | <skidd13> | Gonozal_VIII: buy a new keyboard |
| 11:35 | <dih> | ^^ |
| 11:35 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | http://www.stellwerke.de/signal/deutsch/hv.html <- the most simple "Main-/Presignal" system, 3 signal states: "stop", "go" and "slow" |
| 11:35 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | where "slow" means 40km/h unless otherwise stated |
| 11:35 | <dih> | slow would be fun |
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| 11:37 | <flaa> | O hai! http://mine.icanhascheezburger.com/View.aspx?OhaiIupgrade128448884085383750.jpg |
| 11:37 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | yeah, upon reserving the track you could check wether you go along the branching side of a switch, and set signal state to "slow" then |
| 11:38 | <Sacro> | Eddi|zuHause3: i like that idea |
| 11:38 | <Sacro> | we would need more signal graphics though |
| 11:38 | <dih> | that should not be the hardest part |
| 11:38 | <Gonozal_VIII> | they don't slow down to 40km/h on every switch.. |
| 11:38 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | you have the pictures in the link, just draw them ;) |
| 11:39 | <dih> | you have enough grf authors |
| 11:39 | <dih> | LA would be happy to do something like that |
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| 11:41 | <flaa> | sorry about the bad image quality. but it's the intention that matters ;3 |
| 11:41 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | http://www.stellwerke.de/signal/deutsch/magdeburg.html <- a "combo" signal, which is actually two signals at the same place |
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| 11:42 | <dih> | here comes an ice - lets crash it ^^ |
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| 11:46 | <Sacro> | Eddi|zuHause3: i actually kinda understand that now |
| 11:46 | <Sacro> | though... |
| 11:46 | <Sacro> | red + green is wrong |
| 11:46 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | it is yellow+green |
| 11:46 | <Sacro> | :o |
| 11:46 | <Sacro> | that's scary |
| 11:47 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | or orange+green on the presignal |
| 11:47 | <Gonozal_VIII> | that's the special yellow that they use to grow oranges |
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