| --- | Log | opened Sun Jan 13 00:00:15 2008 |
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| 02:01 | <Draakon> | hi |
| 02:03 | -!- | DaleStan [~Dale@pool-71-98-88-121.ipslin.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #openttd |
| 02:04 | <Draakon> | how can i get american town names in my game? |
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| 02:09 | <DaleStan> | Draakon: New game, or existing? |
| 02:09 | <Draakon> | new game |
| 02:11 | <DaleStan> | Game options. If you meant the names that come with the USSet, you'll have to load the newgrf too. |
| 02:13 | <Draakon> | only Latin-American there, you mean this then? |
| 02:15 | <DaleStan> | That's the correct dropdown. If you don't like the choices, you'll need a town names grf. |
| 02:16 | <Draakon> | ok, |
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| 02:17 | <roboman> | http://www.as-st.com/ttd/newusa/ to get the ones DaleStan mentioned |
| 02:17 | <Draakon> | i have that set |
| 02:17 | <Draakon> | oh |
| 02:17 | <Draakon> | nvm |
| 02:17 | <roboman> | i was sure there was a names download |
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| 03:23 | <Draakon> | :S |
| 03:23 | <Draakon> | why my game makes autosave but autosave is turned off? |
| 03:24 | -!- | robotboy is now known as robobot |
| 03:24 | <Rubidium> | cause we forced that in order to find a bug, and when we found that bug to have any chance of reproducing it locally thus fixing |
| 03:25 | -!- | robobot is now known as roboboy |
| 03:25 | <Draakon> | you mean that population bug? |
| 03:25 | <Rubidium> | yes |
| 03:25 | <Draakon> | ok |
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| 03:34 | <Lachie> | noob |
| 03:34 | <jonty-comp> | no u |
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| 03:36 | -!- | roboboy is now known as robobot |
| 03:37 | <Draakon> | so do i get this population bug right: if you have TTRS loaded and blow some buildings up, then population will be wierd? |
| 03:38 | <Rubidium> | well... if it was *that* simple it would've been solved by now |
| 03:39 | <Draakon> | so there needs do be other NewGRF loaded too? |
| 03:40 | <Rubidium> | *IF* we know what's happening, it would've been solved by now |
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| 03:46 | <Draakon> | hmm intresting bug |
| 03:46 | <Draakon> | :PÜ |
| 03:46 | <Draakon> | :P* |
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| 04:12 | <pavel1269> | hi |
| 04:19 | <Draakon> | hi |
| 04:20 | <peter__> | hi |
| 04:20 | <jonty-comp> | hi |
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| 05:26 | <SmatZ> | morning |
| 05:28 | -!- | Wolf01 [~wolf01@host175-232-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #openttd |
| 05:28 | <Wolf01> | hello |
| 05:28 | <SmatZ> | hello Wolf01 |
| 05:30 | <pavel1269> | hi |
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| 05:46 | -!- | mode/#openttd [+v tokai] by ChanServ |
| 05:47 | <pavel1269> | !logs |
| 05:47 | <SpComb> | Logs: http://spbot.marttila.de:8120/logs/oftc-ottd (old: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd ) |
| 05:50 | <pavel1269> | can anyone recomend me some train set? |
| 05:53 | <Digitalfox> | UK set |
| 05:53 | <Digitalfox> | NA set |
| 05:53 | <Digitalfox> | Or japan set.. |
| 05:53 | <valhallasw> | 'yes.' :P |
| 05:53 | <toet> | cant u use all in 1? :o |
| 05:53 | <Digitalfox> | But with peter patch just use all of them at the same time o_O |
| 05:53 | <toet> | ah |
| 05:54 | <toet> | link? |
| 05:54 | <Digitalfox> | http://fuzzle.org/o/enginepool20080112c.diff |
| 05:55 | -!- | UnderBuilder [~chatzilla@168.226.106.168] has joined #openttd |
| 05:56 | <Digitalfox> | And in openttd.cfg change dynamic_engines = true |
| 05:56 | <Digitalfox> | That's it.. |
| 05:56 | <pavel1269> | lol :) |
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| 05:59 | <pavel1269> | i will stick with DBSet and CSD then :) |
| 06:05 | -!- | Gonozal_VIII [~Gonozal_V@N870P026.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #openttd |
| 06:07 | <Gonozal_VIII> | morning |
| 06:08 | <Digitalfox> | night |
| 06:08 | <Gonozal_VIII> | hee |
| 06:09 | <Gonozal_VIII> | is it possible (and easy) to remove certain bridgetypes from the gui of a railtype? |
| 06:10 | <Gonozal_VIII> | without changing the code of course, only newgrf.. |
| 06:10 | * | Hendikins grumbles |
| 06:11 | <Hendikins> | The resident slacker is taking a sickie tomorrow |
| 06:11 | <Hendikins> | And because I've already got 24 hours overtime up this fortnight, they won't let me extend to 12 hours |
| 06:12 | <Gonozal_VIII> | you use strange words... but i think i got most of it.. |
| 06:12 | <Gonozal_VIII> | but what's a resident slacker?^^ |
| 06:12 | <Hendikins> | Slacker = somebody who does less than their fair share of work |
| 06:12 | <Hendikins> | (Or doesn't do enough work) |
| 06:13 | <Gonozal_VIII> | yes but in combination mit resident? |
| 06:13 | <Hendikins> | Just means they're /our/ slacker |
| 06:13 | <Gonozal_VIII> | ah i see i see |
| 06:14 | <Hendikins> | A sickie is taking a day of sick leave without actually being sick |
| 06:14 | <Gonozal_VIII> | and fortnights are really in use, i thought that was some very old system |
| 06:14 | <Hendikins> | A fortnight is 14 days |
| 06:14 | <Gonozal_VIII> | i got that sickie thing^^ |
| 06:14 | <Gonozal_VIII> | and i know what a fortnight is |
| 06:15 | <Gonozal_VIII> | but i didn't know that people still use it |
| 06:15 | <Hendikins> | And overtime is additional hours on top of what I'm supposed to be rostered. |
| 06:15 | <Gonozal_VIII> | hehe and i certainly know what overtime is |
| 06:16 | <Hendikins> | I've had 2 overtime shifts + 2 extends this fortnight |
| 06:16 | <Hendikins> | So they're not going to get me to extend |
| 06:16 | <Gonozal_VIII> | extend = 12h? |
| 06:16 | <Hendikins> | Extend = >8 hours. |
| 06:16 | <Gonozal_VIII> | :S |
| 06:16 | <Gonozal_VIII> | that's a normal shift |
| 06:17 | <Hendikins> | Although in this case, both the extends were to 12 hours, which is the limit |
| 06:17 | <Gonozal_VIII> | ah > |
| 06:17 | <Gonozal_VIII> | ^^ |
| 06:17 | <Hendikins> | 8 hours is a normal shift. An extend is anything above 8 hours. |
| 06:17 | <Hendikins> | Generally to 12, but doesn't have to be. |
| 06:17 | <Gonozal_VIII> | i thought you used = and > together as an arrow^^ |
| 06:18 | <Hendikins> | No. |
| 06:18 | <Hendikins> | I work for Rail Corporation New South Wales. We use fortnights. :P |
| 06:18 | <Gonozal_VIII> | strange^^ |
| 06:18 | <Hendikins> | Not in Australia |
| 06:19 | <Gonozal_VIII> | are they synced with month or the year? so sometimes longer or shorter? |
| 06:19 | <Hendikins> | A fortnight is pretty much the standard pay period here. |
| 06:19 | <Hendikins> | They're not synced with anything. They're just blocks of 14 days. |
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| 06:21 | <Hendikins> | Gonozal_VIII: I'm station staff. I'm supposed to work 19 days out of every 28. Lately I've been working 23 - 24. |
| 06:21 | <Gonozal_VIII> | i thought they were only used as pranks nowadays, to measure speed in picoparsec per terafortnight or stuff like that |
| 06:22 | <Rubidium> | nah... furlong per fortnight is much better |
| 06:22 | <Gonozal_VIII> | furlong? :O |
| 06:23 | <Gonozal_VIII> | the length of fur of a special animal?^^ |
| 06:23 | -!- | dih [~dihedral@dslb-084-056-241-163.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #openttd |
| 06:23 | <dih> | morning |
| 06:23 | <Gonozal_VIII> | hi |
| 06:25 | -!- | Belugas [~belugas@216.191.111.226] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] |
| 06:27 | <Gonozal_VIII> | sooo.. does anybody know something about disabling certain bridgetypes for one railtype? |
| 06:27 | <Gonozal_VIII> | i want to disable all but one bridge for monorail |
| 06:28 | -!- | Belugas_Gone [~belugas@216.191.111.226] has joined #openttd |
| 06:28 | -!- | mode/#openttd [+o Belugas_Gone] by ChanServ |
| 06:28 | <Gonozal_VIII> | disable as in remove them from the gui.. |
| 06:30 | <Hendikins> | Why? |
| 06:31 | <Gonozal_VIII> | i replace my monorail with transrapid tracktype and want to have only one bridge for that |
| 06:32 | -!- | Bjarni [~Bjarni@62.243.161.15] has joined #openttd |
| 06:32 | -!- | mode/#openttd [+o Bjarni] by ChanServ |
| 06:32 | <Gonozal_VIII> | bjarni! |
| 06:33 | * | Bjarni feels like a bar regular when being greeted like that |
| 06:33 | <@Bjarni> | not good |
| 06:33 | <Gonozal_VIII> | hi norm |
| 06:33 | <@Bjarni> | ... |
| 06:37 | <Gonozal_VIII> | do you know how to remove all but one bridgetype from the gui for one railtype with a newgrf? |
| 06:38 | <dih> | hello Bjarni :-) |
| 06:39 | <@Bjarni> | hi dih |
| 06:39 | <dih> | how are you today? |
| 06:39 | * | Bjarni detects a dih patch in the trunk |
| 06:39 | <dih> | ? |
| 06:39 | <dih> | what? where? which one? |
| 06:40 | <dih> | rev? |
| 06:40 | <@DorpsGek> | Bjarni: Commit by rubidium :: r11829 /trunk/src (5 files in 2 dirs) (2008-01-13 01:39:22 UTC) |
| 06:40 | <@DorpsGek> | Bjarni: -Feature: allow reloading openttd.cfg when starting a new game on a dedicated server. Patch by dihedral. |
| 06:40 | <dih> | heh |
| 06:40 | <dih> | NICE |
| 06:40 | * | dih thanks Rubidium a bunch |
| 06:41 | <dih> | i dont know why - but i am seeing an awful lot of desyncs on my games |
| 06:41 | <dih> | http://openttd.dihedral.de/irc-logs |
| 06:41 | <@Bjarni> | figure out why and fix it |
| 06:42 | <dih> | search for desync on #openttdFairPlay |
| 06:42 | <@Bjarni> | you keep asking for useful stuff to do... now you got it |
| 06:42 | <dih> | ^^ |
| 06:42 | <dih> | i would need both savegames (raw) from client and server, right? |
| 06:42 | <dih> | and find out as of when they differ |
| 06:43 | <dih> | adding a autosave to the daily loop |
| 06:43 | <@Bjarni> | yeah |
| 06:43 | <dih> | nice |
| 06:43 | <@Bjarni> | in single player |
| 06:43 | <Rubidium> | no, we need to know how to reproduce the desync |
| 06:43 | <dih> | yes |
| 06:43 | <Rubidium> | not that two savegames differ |
| 06:43 | <dih> | Rubidium: they are sporadic |
| 06:43 | <Rubidium> | because that is usually useless information |
| 06:43 | <@Bjarni> | yeah it has to be a savegame that desyncs on it's own every time |
| 06:43 | <dih> | but when they are there, it usually hits everybody |
| 06:44 | <@Bjarni> | first try to get a savegame that reproduce the desync a a certain date |
| 06:44 | <dih> | i'll do my best |
| 06:44 | <dih> | i have enough autosaves ^^ |
| 06:44 | <@Bjarni> | then it's possible to work on why it desyncs... but it's too hard if it's completely random |
| 06:44 | <dih> | funny thing though is, the desyncs are occuring on the games that dont have additional grf's loaded |
| 06:44 | <Rubidium> | s/too hard/completely impossible/ |
| 06:45 | <dih> | lol |
| 06:45 | <@Bjarni> | I wouldn't say that |
| 06:45 | <dih> | i'll do my best |
| 06:45 | <@Bjarni> | but we would really need to be lucky |
| 06:45 | <@Bjarni> | <dih> how are you today? <-- hungry |
| 06:45 | <@Bjarni> | bbl |
| 06:45 | <dih> | LOL |
| 06:45 | <dih> | enjoy |
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| 06:47 | <peter__> | dih, good news, i think i've found a solution for that bug i was talking about |
| 06:47 | <pavel1269> | what bug? :) |
| 06:48 | <peter__> | in the enginepool patch |
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| 06:48 | <peter__> | well, not a bug because i commented it out ;) |
| 06:49 | <dih> | peter__ refresh my mind please ^^ |
| 06:53 | <peter__> | i never told you what it was, it was just that bug i was staying up late for |
| 06:53 | <dih> | oh - ok |
| 06:53 | <dih> | i remember ^^ |
| 06:56 | <dih> | Rubidium: TB used to talk about making squirrel the console language, what is your thought to that? |
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| 06:59 | <peter__> | woo, it compiled ;) |
| 07:00 | <dih> | yay |
| 07:00 | <dih> | "if it compiles, ship it" |
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| 07:03 | <Gonozal_VIII> | how to make a stone sculpture of a lion: take a big stone, remove everything that doesn't look like a lion, ready |
| 07:03 | <ln-> | was that Leonardo's idea of it or whose... |
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| 07:04 | <Gonozal_VIII> | i don't know... i read it somewhere some years ago |
| 07:04 | <Gonozal_VIII> | i also don't know why i wrote it now |
| 07:04 | <dih> | perhaps because you had nothing else to say ^^ |
| 07:05 | <ln-> | the same goes for making a transportation simulation game; take 5MB file filled with 0xFF, then zero each bit that doesn't look like a transportation game. |
| 07:05 | <Gonozal_VIII> | yes :-) |
| 07:06 | -!- | Greyscale is now known as Greysc[a]le |
| 07:06 | <Gonozal_VIII> | and you all act as if it was a hard thing to do... tststs |
| 07:08 | <dih> | ^^ |
| 07:09 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: rubidium * r11830 /trunk/src/roadveh_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#1625]: road vehicles would not wait in line, but at a single point on bridges. Based on a patch by SmatZ. |
| 07:09 | <Gonozal_VIII> | hmmm |
| 07:09 | <Gonozal_VIII> | they stopped doing that a long time ago |
| 07:09 | <Gonozal_VIII> | was that reverted? |
| 07:10 | <Rubidium> | Gonozal_VIII: no, they just didn't do it correctly |
| 07:10 | -!- | GoneWacko [~gonewacko@dhcp-077-249-197-241.chello.nl] has joined #openttd |
| 07:10 | <Gonozal_VIII> | they run through each other after some time... i was told that's a feature |
| 07:11 | <Rubidium> | that is a feature |
| 07:11 | <peter__> | that's also turn on and offable |
| 07:11 | <Gonozal_VIII> | then what was the bug? |
| 07:11 | <peter__> | it's the "road vehicle queue (with quantum effects)" patch |
| 07:11 | <Gonozal_VIII> | aaaah |
| 07:11 | <Rubidium> | but in some cases on bridges (and tunnels, though you can't see that), they would move all to the same spot on the bridge |
| 07:12 | <Rubidium> | Gonozal_VIII: just take a look at the savegame in flyspray in < r11830 |
| 07:12 | <Gonozal_VIII> | i believe you :-) but it did work for me since the last fix |
| 07:13 | <Rubidium> | Gonozal_VIII: it did not in ALL cases |
| 07:13 | <Gonozal_VIII> | ok |
| 07:16 | <dih> | how can i force a game to write crash infor to crash.log? |
| 07:18 | <Rubidium> | on what OS? |
| 07:18 | <dih> | linux |
| 07:18 | <dih> | debian |
| 07:18 | <Rubidium> | there's not crash.log there |
| 07:19 | <dih> | ok |
| 07:19 | <Rubidium> | you can run openttd in gdb though |
| 07:19 | <dih> | anything i can do to get one? |
| 07:19 | <dih> | i mean - the game runs in autopilot |
| 07:19 | <Rubidium> | attach gdb to it |
| 07:19 | <dih> | and for some very odd reason, the game 'died' but autopilot remained running |
| 07:20 | <dih> | which never happened before |
| 07:20 | <dih> | what is the maximum client id? |
| 07:20 | <Rubidium> | I guess 65535 |
| 07:21 | <dih> | ok - i deff did not reach that ^^ |
| 07:21 | <Rubidium> | it's at least more than 255 |
| 07:21 | <dih> | yes |
| 07:21 | <dih> | but i dont restart my servers |
| 07:21 | <dih> | that one was running since 0.6.0-beta2 came out |
| 07:26 | -!- | Greysc[a]le is now known as Greyscale |
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| 07:38 | <dih> | by the way - i dont think the desyncs are based on user actions... |
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| 07:46 | <freepenguin> | hello |
| 07:47 | <Gonozal_VIII> | hi |
| 07:50 | <Ammler> | dih: I had that on my server too |
| 07:51 | <Ammler> | (server breaks and ap didn't |
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| 08:12 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: smatz * r11831 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix: call TrainConsistChanged() when removing crashed train part to be consistent with saveload process |
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| 08:16 | <UnderBuilder> | I think that in temperate the towns should require goods |
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| 08:17 | <Gonozal_VIII> | they do^^ |
| 08:17 | <Gonozal_VIII> | ah you mean for growth? |
| 08:17 | <UnderBuilder> | best said, goods and transport of mail and coal to nearby power stations |
| 08:17 | <UnderBuilder> | *require* |
| 08:17 | <UnderBuilder> | yes |
| 08:18 | <Gonozal_VIII> | did you read my topic in the suggestions forum about the zones? :-) |
| 08:18 | <UnderBuilder> | instead of being station served based, it should be cargo received based |
| 08:18 | <Gonozal_VIII> | http://tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=35747 |
| 08:19 | <UnderBuilder> | because for me the goal in openttd is to grow cities |
| 08:19 | <Gonozal_VIII> | each town building represents a lot of buildings and has a stockpile :-) |
| 08:19 | <UnderBuilder> | that looks a bit simcity-ish |
| 08:20 | <Gonozal_VIII> | only the names for the area types |
| 08:20 | <Gonozal_VIII> | rest has nothing to do with sim city |
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| 08:20 | -!- | mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ |
| 08:20 | <UnderBuilder> | and I think that residential and commercial should be merged |
| 08:21 | <UnderBuilder> | I will explain better... |
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| 08:22 | <UnderBuilder> | light residential has got high quantity of houses, low quantity of small commerces and no tall buildings |
| 08:23 | <UnderBuilder> | medium residential has got low quantity of houses, high quantity of small commerces and some high buildings (5-6 floors) |
| 08:25 | <UnderBuilder> | heavy residential has got no houses, and high quantity of tall buildings (10-20 or in exceptional cases monstruosities like 50 floor ones) |
| 08:25 | <hylje> | simcity |
| 08:25 | <Gonozal_VIII> | i tried to avoid changes in the accepted cargo types during growth |
| 08:25 | <UnderBuilder> | it should be like a mix of TTD and simcity |
| 08:26 | <UnderBuilder> | similar for industries |
| 08:26 | <UnderBuilder> | there are lire |
| 08:26 | <UnderBuilder> | sorry |
| 08:26 | <Gonozal_VIII> | but the cargo types could stay the same and stockpile sizes vary.. |
| 08:26 | <UnderBuilder> | there are light industries like farms that does not generate pollution |
| 08:27 | <UnderBuilder> | and forests |
| 08:27 | <hylje> | would these areas be 1x1 or 2x2 or more |
| 08:27 | <hylje> | or variable |
| 08:27 | <Gonozal_VIII> | every area is 1 tile |
| 08:28 | <Gonozal_VIII> | that's the 2nd assumption :-) |
| 08:28 | <UnderBuilder> | medium industries like iron ore mines, coal mines that generate some pollution |
| 08:28 | <Gonozal_VIII> | Areas with maximum population are likely to spawn minimum population areas of same type on empty tiles in their surroundings; |
| 08:28 | <Gonozal_VIII> | Areas with minimum population can be changed to a different type (e. g. from residential to industrial) by neighbouring maximum population tiles; |
| 08:29 | <hylje> | ah |
| 08:29 | <Gonozal_VIII> | what does pollution do? |
| 08:29 | <UnderBuilder> | and heavy industries (processing ones) like factories or steel mills that generate high pollution |
| 08:29 | <UnderBuilder> | nothing |
| 08:29 | <Gonozal_VIII> | ok^^ |
| 08:29 | <hylje> | would this practically mean cities would be part passenger part (secondary) industry? |
| 08:30 | <Gonozal_VIII> | |
| 08:30 | <Gonozal_VIII> | If you supply a type of area in a part of a town but not the others, it will expand and slowly replace the other areas which leads to clusters of same area type next to each other like industrial or commercial districts in real cities. |
| 08:30 | <Gonozal_VIII> | Lots of small sources with low output and destinations with small stockpile sizes increase the usefulness of trucks, hubs and milk runs. |
| 08:30 | <UnderBuilder> | but the difference with simcity is that the zones are built automatically |
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| 08:31 | * | peter__ ponders testing multiple engine sets on a server... |
| 08:31 | <Gonozal_VIII> | http://tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=35747 <-- you can read it there hylje :-) |
| 08:31 | <hylje> | yes yes |
| 08:34 | <UnderBuilder> | each city has got one residential zone (the city) and an industrial zone (only one of them per city) and the maximum size of the cities is inversally proportional to the number of cities |
| 08:35 | <Gonozal_VIII> | you mean at map generation? |
| 08:35 | <Gonozal_VIII> | it will change a lot with supply... |
| 08:36 | <UnderBuilder> | yes, but the industries will not be generated randomly |
| 08:36 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: rubidium * r11832 /trunk/src/ (22 files in 2 dirs): -Codechange: get rid of (quite) some VARDEFs. |
| 08:36 | <Gonozal_VIII> | right, only spawn new ones nearby if you grow them |
| 08:37 | <UnderBuilder> | the industrial zone needs passengers (workers) from cities and the residential zone needs goods from the processing industries |
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| 08:37 | <Gonozal_VIII> | yes i wrote that :-) |
| 08:37 | <UnderBuilder> | no, you also can't spawn industries yourself |
| 08:37 | <UnderBuilder> | they already come with each city |
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| 08:38 | <Gonozal_VIII> | only one tile? that's not much |
| 08:38 | <Gonozal_VIII> | i was thinking about a relatively small stockpile per tile even at maximum population |
| 08:39 | <UnderBuilder> | I mean one group of tiles |
| 08:39 | <Gonozal_VIII> | ah i see... |
| 08:39 | <UnderBuilder> | ah, you mean one tile = one industry? |
| 08:39 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | how do you think of simulating raw industries like coal or ore mines, which typically use up a rather big area? |
| 08:39 | <Gonozal_VIII> | the areas are big |
| 08:40 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | 1 tile == big?!? |
| 08:40 | <Gonozal_VIII> | yes :D |
| 08:40 | <pavel1269> | you play 64x64, dont you? :) |
| 08:41 | <Gonozal_VIII> | i don't know how big the tiles are when you compare it to vehicle speed but i think it's about 2km |
| 08:41 | <Gonozal_VIII> | (read that somewhere) |
| 08:41 | <UnderBuilder> | residential should be houses, apartments, offices, shops, etc. |
| 08:41 | <Tefad> | residential/commercial |
| 08:41 | <UnderBuilder> | commercial should be renamed to turism places |
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| 08:43 | <GoneWacko> | >_> |
| 08:43 | <Gonozal_VIII> | tourism places doesn't seem to be such a good name^^ |
| 08:44 | <Tefad> | attractions |
| 08:44 | <UnderBuilder> | yes, atractions is right, I'm bad at english |
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| 08:45 | <Tefad> | i am by far no master ; ) |
| 08:45 | <UnderBuilder> | however, this should be a fork of openttd, because this is a massive change of the gameplay and it will not like to everyone |
| 08:46 | <Tefad> | while i can master some parts of grammar, i am miserable at others. and my vocabulary has notches and plateus all over. |
| 08:46 | <Gonozal_VIII> | i was hoping it could be done with a newgrf |
| 08:47 | <Prof_Frink> | Gonozal_VIII: If you calculate from vehicle speed, each tile is several thousand km square |
| 08:47 | <Gonozal_VIII> | oh^^ |
| 08:47 | <Gonozal_VIII> | then where did i get that 2km thing from? |
| 08:48 | <Gonozal_VIII> | doesn |
| 08:48 | <peter__> | scale is something to be ignored |
| 08:48 | <Gonozal_VIII> | t matter |
| 08:48 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | cities should scale with vehicles, not with distances |
| 08:48 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | (very roughly) |
| 08:49 | <UnderBuilder> | I think that instead of population of the area you should say level of the area, as the industries and atractions also can have got that feature |
| 08:49 | <Gonozal_VIII> | i want big cities with millions of people... with areas |
| 08:49 | <Forked> | so some of the good people in the ttd towns live in a 2x2km house? nice |
| 08:49 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | if 1 tile == 2 wagons, then 1 tile is around 50m |
| 08:50 | <Tefad> | scale in ttd is never correct ; ) |
| 08:51 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | and a city with 1 million inhabitants should cover a rather big part of the map |
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| 08:51 | <Gonozal_VIII> | it would |
| 08:51 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | not an area of 10x10 tiles, like in your suggestion |
| 08:52 | <Gonozal_VIII> | only at maximum population density |
| 08:52 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | 25600*10*10 = 2.5M |
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| 08:52 | <UnderBuilder> | I smell Transport City |
| 08:52 | <Gonozal_VIII> | you only get that with a constant supply of everything |
| 08:52 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | "constant" is even unrealistic |
| 08:53 | <Gonozal_VIII> | Population decreases three steps towards the minimum every 256 ticks if the stockpile is empty; |
| 08:53 | <Gonozal_VIII> | Population doesn't change if the area has something in its stockpile but not everything; |
| 08:53 | <Gonozal_VIII> | Population increases one step if there are units of everything the area needs in its stockpile and the population is below maximum; |
| 08:53 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | say you go along with this "zones" idea, scale to be discussed, you can have different density levels, but on higher density levels you need very high supply to even maintain the level |
| 08:54 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: bjarni * r11833 /trunk/config.lib: |
| 08:54 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: -Cleanup: changed save_params_array into one item for each line in config.lib |
| 08:54 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: This should increase readability and conflict solving |
| 08:54 | <roboboy> | gnight |
| 08:54 | <Gonozal_VIII> | yes eddi... if the stockpile runs empty the population goes down |
| 08:55 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | yes, but on higher density level, the stockpile must go down faster |
| 08:55 | <Gonozal_VIII> | yes it does... it processes/consumes more |
| 08:55 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | and i would not say "empty", you need supply within certain limits |
| 08:55 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | if you go below, you have slight chance of decrease |
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| 08:56 | <Gonozal_VIII> | empty is good enough |
| 08:56 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | if you go above (on all required slots) you have slight chance of growth |
| 08:56 | <Gonozal_VIII> | the stockpile is a buffer |
| 08:56 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | the further you are away from the "optimum", the bigger the chances are |
| 08:57 | <Gonozal_VIII> | every 256 ticks the stockpile of every cargo is reduced by an ammount that's calculated from the population |
| 08:57 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | also, not all input variables should be "required", if you only supply certain cargo types, you can push development into certain directions |
| 08:58 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | 256 ticks? that's like a week... |
| 08:58 | <Gonozal_VIII> | if the reduction would bring the remaining supply of nothing below 0, the population grows, if anything is not 0 population stays the same, everything 0, population down |
| 08:58 | <Gonozal_VIII> | half week |
| 08:58 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | can't you just say each day? |
| 08:59 | <Gonozal_VIII> | that would be too fast |
| 08:59 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | this number of 256 is really random |
| 08:59 | <Gonozal_VIII> | byte |
| 08:59 | <Tefad> | 2^8 |
| 08:59 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | apart from "each day" you have "each tileloop" |
| 08:59 | <Tefad> | 2 4 8 16 32 64 128 256 |
| 09:00 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | Tefad: 4 8 15 16 23 42? |
| 09:00 | <Gonozal_VIII> | ecs industries have 256 tick intervals |
| 09:00 | <Gonozal_VIII> | but doesn't matter, can be 72 ticks too |
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| 09:01 | <Gonozal_VIII> | but that would require more steps for the population |
| 09:01 | <Gonozal_VIII> | because then you could grow to maximum in 256 days instead of 3 years |
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| 09:02 | <Gonozal_VIII> | i thought about the numbers a lot^^ |
| 09:03 | <Draakon> | hi |
| 09:03 | <Gonozal_VIII> | hi |
| 09:03 | <roboboy> | gnight |
| 09:04 | <Gonozal_VIII> | night^^ |
| 09:05 | <UnderBuilder> | one question, in your countries is there some isp that supports gnu/linux? |
| 09:05 | <Sacro> | Bowling Green, Ohio student Robert Ricketts, 19, had his head bloodied when he was struck by a Conrail train. He told police he was trying to see how close to the moving train he could place his head without getting hit. |
| 09:06 | <Gonozal_VIII> | *rofl* |
| 09:06 | <UnderBuilder> | I mean, that gives support to users using linux distributions |
| 09:06 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | what do you mean "support"? |
| 09:06 | -!- | _Bastiaan_ [~Bastiaan@ip87-205-173-82.adsl2.versatel.nl] has joined #openttd |
| 09:07 | <UnderBuilder> | technical support |
| 09:08 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | why would an ISP have to give support for linux distributions? |
| 09:08 | <peter__> | arrr, too many engines :o |
| 09:08 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | you don't ask the baker for support of carpet cutters |
| 09:08 | <Draakon> | peter: hehe i know what you mean |
| 09:09 | <Draakon> | peter: you could make a organizing system for it |
| 09:10 | <Gonozal_VIII> | hmm you can sort them by all kinds of values, that should also be enough to find the right engine if there are hundreds available |
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| 09:11 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | sorting is not enough, you need filtering |
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| 09:11 | <Draakon> | argh |
| 09:12 | <peter__> | SELECT * FROM engines WHERE power > 4000 |
| 09:12 | <Gonozal_VIII> | hehe |
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| 09:13 | <Sacro> | sqlite? |
| 09:13 | <UnderBuilder> | idea: automatic bulldozer |
| 09:13 | <Sacro> | actually, would that work... |
| 09:13 | <Gonozal_VIII> | ORDER BY power |
| 09:14 | <UnderBuilder> | when you want to build something like an airport over the middle of a city, if your ratings are good enough, you don't have to destroy half of the city, you just have to overbuild it and voila! |
| 09:15 | <Draakon> | not possibile |
| 09:15 | <Gonozal_VIII> | only if you're an OverBuilder |
| 09:15 | <SmatZ> | :-D |
| 09:15 | <Draakon> | not possible in the game either |
| 09:15 | <Gonozal_VIII> | don't be so lazy, airports are cheap enough :P |
| 09:16 | <Gonozal_VIII> | at least they require some work to make space for them |
| 09:16 | * | Draakon download more train sets |
| 09:17 | <Draakon> | where can i redownload ECS vectors beta 3? |
| 09:17 | <Gonozal_VIII> | why do you want old grfs? |
| 09:17 | <Gonozal_VIII> | ah no... wood and agricultural are still beta 3 |
| 09:17 | <Draakon> | dont like new ones |
| 09:19 | <LA[lord]> | I need a link which explains well, why ong and not JPG, but I can't find it.. I need to post it to one place... :P Any help? |
| 09:19 | <LA[lord]> | png* |
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| 09:19 | <Draakon> | wiki? |
| 09:19 | <Gonozal_VIII> | jpg changes pixels all over the place |
| 09:19 | <LA[lord]> | I know it was in the wiki.. but where |
| 09:20 | <Gonozal_VIII> | that's reason enough |
| 09:20 | <LA[lord]> | I want that wiki page, so I don't have to rewrite everything |
| 09:20 | <Draakon> | still where i can get ECS Vectors Beta 3? |
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| 09:22 | <LA[lord]> | http://george.zernebok.net/newgrf/downloads.html#decs |
| 09:23 | <Gonozal_VIII> | he wants old versions |
| 09:23 | <Draakon> | i dont want basic vectors beta 4 |
| 09:23 | <Draakon> | i want old |
| 09:23 | <LA[lord]> | there is betaa 3 too |
| 09:23 | <LA[lord]> | ECS vectors v1 beta 3 |
| 09:23 | <Gonozal_VIII> | hehe |
| 09:24 | <Draakon> | but not basic, machinery and town |
| 09:24 | <LA[lord]> | below the beta 4 |
| 09:24 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | hm... what is a BR 140 useful for? |
| 09:24 | <LA[lord]> | oh.. wait a mom |
| 09:25 | <Gonozal_VIII> | as a buffer to stop real trains :-) |
| 09:25 | <Gonozal_VIII> | ^^ |
| 09:25 | <ln-> | do english-speaking peoples ever use month numbers when expressing a date? |
| 09:25 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | it is slower than E 16 and has less tractive effort than E 94 |
| 09:26 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | i don't speak english |
| 09:26 | <Gonozal_VIII> | yes but they mix up the order of day and month all the time |
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| 09:28 | <LA[lord]> | Draakon: Doesn't the coop pack have beta3, or they have beta4? |
| 09:28 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | i think something is not quite realistic with the realistic acceleration... |
| 09:29 | <Draakon> | they have much older versions |
| 09:29 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | an E 94 easily pulls a 3500t coal train |
| 09:29 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | but a VT 95 with trailer cannot reach its maximum speed |
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| 09:32 | * | peter__ ponders food |
| 09:32 | <peter__> | or drink |
| 09:32 | <peter__> | or somesuch |
| 09:32 | <Gonozal_VIII> | little endian form 13/01/2008 |
| 09:32 | <Gonozal_VIII> | big endian form 2008-01-13 |
| 09:32 | <Gonozal_VIII> | middle endian form 01/13/2008 <-- totally messed up |
| 09:33 | <peter__> | good ol' US |
| 09:33 | <hylje> | middle-endian :) |
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| 09:33 | <peter__> | ln-, not I, certainly |
| 09:33 | <Sacro> | Draakon: #tycoon is very rarely on topic |
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| 09:34 | <hylje> | peter__: foodstuffs! |
| 09:34 | <peter__> | FOODAGE |
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| 09:34 | <Gonozal_VIII> | so when you read stuff like 08/09/2007 you never know for sure what it means |
| 09:35 | <Sacro> | for sure for sure |
| 09:36 | <Gonozal_VIII> | ? |
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| 09:37 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: rubidium * r11834 /trunk/src/ (58 files in 3 dirs): -Codechange: only include settings_type.h if needed. |
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| 09:41 | <GoneWacko> | I don't know what I fear more, people from #openttd coming into #tycoon and expecting a very formal/on-topic channel, or people from #tycoon coming into #openttd and being annoying :> |
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| 09:42 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: smatz * r11835 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix: mark depot, viewports, vehicle lists and vehicle details dirty when a train crashes |
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| 09:43 | <peter__> | child! |
| 09:43 | <peter__> | hmm |
| 09:43 | <Gonozal_VIII> | what a random thing to say |
| 09:43 | <Draakon> | heh |
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| 09:43 | <@Bjarni> | well |
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| 09:44 | <@Bjarni> | he can code... so why should we argue against his outbursts? :) |
| 09:44 | <Gonozal_VIII> | hehe |
| 09:44 | <Gonozal_VIII> | random comments all over the code^^ |
| 09:45 | <hylje> | that'd be amusing |
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| 09:46 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | ah, i have found a use for the BR 140 |
| 09:46 | <Draakon> | BR 140? |
| 09:47 | <Draakon> | what's that? |
| 09:47 | <hylje> | loco |
| 09:47 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | i have some small hilly passenger routes that use E 52 and two axle wagons |
| 09:47 | <Draakon> | from what set? |
| 09:47 | <hylje> | db |
| 09:47 | <Draakon> | ok |
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| 09:49 | <nadine> | Hello there :) |
| 09:49 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | although the colours of the bavarian engines with matching wagons is funny, they are just too old now... |
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| 09:50 | <nadine> | Little question: My selfcompiled version of openttd runs quite slow. So i wonder if there are any flags to disable debug stuff or something, that could slow down the current SVN releases? |
| 09:51 | <nadine> | Espacially the zoomed out overview starts to lag when moving on the map |
| 09:51 | <ln-> | And your operating system is ...? |
| 09:51 | <Draakon> | we dont support patched games |
| 09:51 | <nadine> | Linux |
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| 09:51 | <nadine> | It' |
| 09:51 | <nadine> | it's not patches, just svn |
| 09:51 | <Gonozal_VIII> | zoomed out is always slow |
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| 09:52 | <nadine> | So the problem is probably my system with only 1ghz? |
| 09:52 | <Draakon> | erm |
| 09:52 | <Draakon> | is it slow even at the begginning of the game? |
| 09:52 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | 1ghz can be too little for very big maps |
| 09:52 | <Draakon> | like nothing yet done |
| 09:52 | <Gonozal_VIII> | depends on map size, number of vehicles, compeditors, ships with yapf, lots of things |
| 09:53 | <nadine> | I just start a 512x512 map, zoom out and when then moving the map lags |
| 09:53 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | i always pause before zooming out |
| 09:54 | <nadine> | hmm...i just tried to pause before scrolling, doesn' |
