TheGrebs.com:IRC Logs:#openttd:2008:01:08

---	Log	opened Tue Jan 08 00:00:29 2008
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02:21	<peter__>	'lo
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02:49	<Gonozal_VIII>	hi peter
02:50	<Gonozal_VIII>	you really eat that stuff? http://www.urbanext.uiuc.edu/veggies/images/rhubarb.jpg :S
02:51	<Gonozal_VIII>	how much do you get paid for that?
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04:25	<Wolf01>	hello
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04:36	<peter__>	hi
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05:41	<s3mt3x>	moin
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05:56	<dih>	hello
06:00	<dih>	looked like bigger planes dont slow down when circling over small airfields
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06:13	<dih>	does the HQ have any influence on any rating (player, station, local authority)?
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06:37	<jp>	!help
06:37	<dih>	?
06:38	<jp>	sorry, wrong window :)
06:41	<Rubidium>	dih: could have, but thats an indirect effect
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06:53	<dih>	indirect in which way
06:53	<dih>	Rubidium: what affect 'could' it have, and how?
06:54	<Rubidium>	more passengers coming to a station probably causing more waiting passengers causing a lower rating
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06:55	<dih>	so it could not affect any other cargo and any other rating?
06:56	<Rubidium>	indirectly it can (more passenger trains -> more congestion -> more waiting cargo at other stations)
06:57	<dih>	right - ok
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07:38	<roboman>	gnight
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07:48	<holden>	hi all
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08:05	<LA[lord]>	hey
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08:23	<dih>	hey la
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08:34	<Draakon>	hello
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08:48	<Roujin>	ah finally
08:48	<Roujin>	struggled hard to get irc working over the damn university internet access ><
08:48	<Roujin>	g'day everyone
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09:02	<LA[lord]>	hey Roujin
09:04	<LA[lord]>	!fish
09:04	<LA[lord]>	hah...doesn't work here :(
09:06	<Roujin>	sorry, i don't understand what you wrote oO
09:06	<Roujin>	if that's some kind of insider joke then i'm probably on the outside :P
09:07	<LA[lord]>	:P
09:07	<LA[lord]>	it's a command in #openttdcoop
09:07	<LA[lord]>	<publicserver> Today's fish is Trout a la creme. Enjoy your meal.
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09:09	<Roujin>	i see ^^
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09:10	<Roujin>	anyone besides me been given a strange red message when autosave happens in the latest revisions?
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09:10	<Roujin>	"Saving still in progress, please wait until it is finished"
09:11	<LA[lord]>	does it happen only every month start?
09:11	<Roujin>	something wrong on my pc or is it a bug?
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09:11	<Roujin>	yep every month on the autosave..
09:12	<dih>	i dont use autosave, would not know :-D
09:12	<dih>	@OpenTTD youngest
09:12	<@DorpsGek>	dih: latest: r11781
09:12	<dih>	@OpenTTD thelog
09:12	<@DorpsGek>	dih: r11781 log: -Codechange: variable scope and initialization
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09:12	<Roujin>	appeared somewhen inbetween the latest 10 revisions
09:12	<Roujin>	for me that is
09:12	<LA[lord]>	but if you change the autosave e.g every week, does it happen then too?
09:12	<dih>	@OpenTTD commit 11781
09:12	<@DorpsGek>	dih: Commit by peter1138 :: r11781 trunk/src/build_vehicle_gui.cpp (2008-01-07 22:38:30 UTC)
09:12	<@DorpsGek>	dih: -Codechange: variable scope and initialization
09:13	<LA[lord]>	for every week or just every month start
09:13	<LA[lord]>	I might have an idea...
09:13	<Roujin>	if no one else encounters that its maybe some setting I acidentally broke or something
09:14	<Roujin>	lord: every week?? there's not such an autosave setting :P
09:14	<dih>	i dont even think there is a weekly loop
09:14	<LA[lord]>	some weeks/months devs forced autosave for tracking an ugly bug
09:14	<@Belugas>	yup
09:14	<LA[lord]>	and this happens monthly
09:14	<@Belugas>	newhouse count been wrong
09:15	<LA[lord]>	even if you have autosave turned off
09:15	<Roujin>	eh.. so why does it display an error message for me? because i have autosave on anyways and it tries to autosave two times simultaniously?
09:15	<LA[lord]>	and maybe it tries to save twice, one for forced autosave and one for normal one
09:15	<LA[lord]>	at the same time...
09:16	<Roujin>	oh in fact
09:16	<Roujin>	turning off autosave lets the error not appear anymore
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09:17	<Roujin>	the forced autosave should disable the normal one then or something similar i think ;)
09:18	<+glx>	Roujin: disable autosave for now :)
09:19	<Roujin>	done ;) just wanted to inform you guys :P
09:20	<+glx>	we know it ;)
09:20	<LA[lord]>	but have you caught the evil bug?
09:21	<Roujin>	but i'm wondering why such a debug method is added to trunk...
09:21	<dih>	if they had - forced autosave would not be in the code anymore
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09:22	<Roujin>	only reason for that would be that users could help spotting it.. no?
09:22	<+glx>	because we don't have a way to reproduce, we only know what happens, but not how and when, so we check town pop monthly and asserts if internal and recalculated are different else we save it
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09:23	<+glx>	that way we have savegame and command logs to "replay" it
09:23	<dih>	what happens then?
09:24	<+glx>	the problem is for some yet unknown reasons, the town population is incorrect (usually less than real pop)
09:24	<+glx>	and we you delete houses you can get "negative" population
09:25	<Roujin>	uh, speaking of towns and population... could you give me a hint on how passenger and mail generation is handled?
09:25	<Roujin>	i guess it's the properties "population" and "mail_generation" and if they're > 0, it generates pax/mail.. right?
09:25	<Roujin>	*properties of HouseSpec
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09:29	[~]	glx needs to reboot, he gets random windows crashes
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09:30	<@Belugas>	Roujin, check on TileLoop_Town, town_cmd.cpp:396
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09:34	<Roujin>	thanks, one question about that:
09:34	<Roujin>	if (HasBit(hs->callback_mask, CBM_HOUSE_PRODUCE_CARGO)) {
09:35	<Roujin>	does this line differentiate between standard and newGrf houses?
09:35	<@Belugas>	not exactly
09:35	<+glx>	the check is done before that
09:35	<@Belugas>	a grf house can have the flag set, but it's not mandatory
09:36	<Roujin>	and standard ones?
09:36	<+glx>	they don't have any callbacks
09:36	<@Belugas>	standard ones never have th flag set, of course
09:36	<Roujin>	ok, that's what i kind of guessed ;)
09:37	<hylje>	having city-like industries came to me the other day
09:37	<@Belugas>	callbacks are code supplied by grf (roughly). so standard houses not being bound by grf, they have no callbacks
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09:37	<@Belugas>	hylje, as you can see, it's already there.
09:37	<@Belugas>	you just have to code them in grf ;)
09:38	<hylje>	that seems more like industry-like cities
09:38	<hylje>	ill elaborate
09:38	<@Belugas>	whatever you want :) it all comes down to producing stuff
09:38	<hylje>	industries would be very small at first (or randomly sized, much like towns)
09:38	<@Belugas>	and accept, of course
09:39	<Roujin>	but one thing seems strange to me.. the else part that handles all standard houses does the same thing for every house, is that right?
09:39	<hylje>	good service makes those small industries grow in size and production much like cities do
09:39	<Roujin>	there's no differentiation between big and small ones, just 1/8 chance every tile_loop? (if i got it right)
09:40	<Roujin>	oh, now i see it
09:40	<@Belugas>	in this context, we are talking abot a tile-house, Roujin...
09:40	<@Belugas>	not a complete house
09:42	<hylje>	Belugas: does newgrf support that kind of sprawling industries?
09:43	<+glx>	hylje: that means changing layout after construction
09:43	<hylje>	i read that as a no :)
09:43	<Roujin>	okay, one more noobish question (sorry): GB(r, 0, 8) <-- can't find this function or macro
09:44	<+glx>	it's a function, in core/bitmath_func.fpp
09:44	<Roujin>	thanks, will look it up
09:44	<+glx>	returns bits 0-7 from r
09:44	<@Belugas>	hylje, indeed, it's a no.
09:45	<Noldo>	how about houses that produce cargo?
09:45	<@Belugas>	as to if it can be made, i guess so, but ... i doubt it is really worth it
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09:45	<Roujin>	first is input, second offset, third length?
09:46	<@Belugas>	Noldo, it aleardy can, just loo at the sources
09:46	<hylje>	it'd be a different kind of city
09:46	<hylje>	instead of passengers producing e.g. coal
09:46	<+glx>	Roujin: read the comment in header file ;)
09:46	[~]	hylje adds that to his to-do-list, under heading "someday"
09:46	<Noldo>	:)
09:48	<Roujin>	i'm impressed by the bitmagic in ottd every time xD
09:54	<Roujin>	can a newgrf house have 256 production callbacks? O_O
09:55	<Roujin>	that's enourmous xD
09:55	<Roujin>	well thanks for all your kind help, I've learned a lot again :)
09:56	<+glx>	<Roujin> can a newgrf house have 256 production callbacks? O_O <-- why not :)
09:56	<peter__>	hmmz
09:59	<hylje>	that's just gonna run out any minute
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10:10	<Roujin>	*b++ = cargo;
10:11	<Roujin>	i hope this gives address b the value cargo first and then increase the pointer by one...
10:11	<Roujin>	if not i screwed something up now ^^
10:11	<pv2b>	Roujin: it does.
10:12	<pv2b>	if by "increase the pointer by one" you mean "increase the pointer by one tiems the size of the data type pointed to by said pointer
10:12	<pv2b>	"
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10:14	<Roujin>	yes, that was an abbreviation :P
10:14	<ludde>	pv2b: the pointer is incremented by one, the underlying cpu register is incremented by sizeof(*pointer)
10:15	<pv2b>	ludde: uint32 p = (uint32 ) 0x100; printf("%p\n", p+1); gives an output of 0x104.
10:16	<pv2b>	it all depends on the definition you have of "increments by one" :-)
10:18	<ludde>	++ increments by one
10:18	<ludde>	+= 1 increments by one
10:19	<ludde>	in my opinion
10:19	<pv2b>	by one "what" though? :-)
10:19	<ludde>	exactly!
10:19	<ludde>	:p
10:19	<ludde>	by one element
10:20	<pv2b>	mm. so "b" is incremented by one.
10:20	<pv2b>	but not "the pointer" ;-)
10:20	<ludde>	b is the pointer
10:20	<ludde>	it points to an element
10:20	<pv2b>	no, b is a variable containing the pointer :-)
10:20	<pv2b>	it's all semantics anyway
10:22	<+glx>	1 === sizeof(element)
10:22	<ludde>	p in 'void *p' is a pointer, as much as i in 'int i' is an integer
10:26	<Roujin>	okay, sorry for breaking off a discussion :P i have to go now, see you later :)
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10:27	<UnderBuilder>	I'm melting
10:32	\|-\|	Lord [Roman@77-56-104-11.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #openttd
10:33	<Lord>	hey glx, are you still familiar with the town name generation code?
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10:34	<+glx>	a little (I wrote action F support)
10:34	<Lord>	good, I could use some info for a project I'm doing.
10:34	<Lord>	Am I right that name parts are more likely to be used the longer they are?
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10:36	<+glx>	I don't understand :/
10:37	<Lord>	:-) I'm sorry, I'll try again. The longer the name parts, the more likely they are to found in a town name, right?
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10:37	<Lord>	to _be_ found
10:37	<frosch123>	I doubt that, how do you come to such a conclusion?
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10:38	<TrueBrain>	GENERAL NOTICE: openttd.org will be unavailable for the next 15 minutes
10:38	<TrueBrain>	(and all his related services)
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10:40	<Lord>	I might have to say that I'm referring to 0.1.4, because I need to know the original TTD behaviour
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10:42	<+glx>	Lord: you mean array size?
10:43	<Lord>	the name part arrays are onedimensional, meaning that the are just in sequence. MakeEnglishCityName (like others) then more or less randomly jumps into this sequence and thakes the one parts it hit.
10:43	<+glx>	the part is chosen randomly
10:44	<Lord>	well it looks like in openttd 0.1.4 not the actual part, but the array "position" (offset) is chose at random, which makes longer parts more likely to be chosen
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10:45	<+glx>	paste the line
10:45	<Draakon>	hello
10:45	<Draakon>	can anyone explain how can i remove Placment Limitations in ECS Vectors?
10:45	<Lord>	e.g.: AppendPart(&buf, GETNUM(4, NUM_ENGLISH_2), english_2);
10:45	<+glx>	Draakon: you can't unless you modify the grf
10:46	<Lord>	(line 134 in namegen.c of openttd-0.1.4)
10:46	<+glx>	Lord: a lot of thing changed since this version ;)
10:46	<Draakon>	glx: what should i edit there?
10:46	<Lord>	I know... :-)
10:46	<+glx>	Draakon: callbacks
10:47	<Draakon>	glx: what callback?
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10:48	<+glx>	callback 2F I think
10:48	<Draakon>	oeh
10:48	[~]	Draakon doesn't know nothing about GRF Coding
10:48	<TrueBrain>	OpenTTD is back online. Have a nice day!
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10:49	<Draakon>	it has been here for 1h
10:49	<Lord>	anyhow, do you know where I can find the american town name parts (other than by hexediting the exe) which were available in original TTD? They seem to have gotten kicked out in OpenTTD
10:49	<Draakon>	or more
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10:51	<dih>	Draakon: openttd is on a vps, and i think TB knows a little more about that vps than you :-)
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10:58	<Lord>	glx: do you know Jango's email address?
10:59	<+glx>	no
10:59	<Lord>	he's not registred on the forums, is he?
11:00	<+glx>	dunno
11:00	<Lord>	ok, thanks for your help anyways, cya
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11:07	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: peter1138 * r11782 /trunk/src/oldloader.cpp: -Codechange: e->type was used before being properly initialized (it relied on previous runs) but there is no need to invalidate window data during game load as the windows in question cannot be open.
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11:10	<dih>	hello Bjarni
11:12	<LA[lord]>	oh not again...:D
11:14	<dih>	:-(
11:19	<LA[lord]>	good bye.. I think I'll be back in few hours
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11:32	<BDS-Klaus>	hi all
11:33	<BDS-Klaus>	i need help for config my linux server
11:33	<Noldo>	I'm updating FS#1114, If you have comments about it now would be a good time to share them
11:34	<BDS-Klaus>	i want to have max. 2 companies and per company max 2 players
11:34	<BDS-Klaus>	what do i have to change in config or set
11:34	<+glx>	you can specify max_players (a player is a company)
11:35	<BDS-Klaus>	k
11:37	<+glx>	but you can't limit the number of clients in one company, only the total client amount
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11:41	<BDS-Klaus>	kk
11:41	<BDS-Klaus>	thx
11:41	<BDS-Klaus>	for help
11:41	<BDS-Klaus>	all ok... thanks for your help
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12:57	<dih>	Belugas: having fights in FS are we?
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12:59	<+glx>	dih: well you probably know how this user can be ;)
12:59	<peter__>	rehi
13:00	<dih>	glx: sure do :-)
13:00	<dih>	so you also know about this :-D
13:00	<dih>	wow - word spreads fast
13:00	<@Belugas>	yup
13:00	<peter__>	hmmwut?
13:01	<@Belugas>	peter__, talking about Sirkoz regarding http://bugs.openttd.org/task/1476
13:01	<peter__>	ah
13:01	<dih>	i read it, dont get either point :-D
13:02	<@Belugas>	Sirkoz likes to use big phrases that mean little, most of the time
13:02	<dih>	well yes - i know that much :-)
13:02	<dih>	but he is trying to point out something, is he not - i dont know exactly what he is pointing out
13:03	<@Belugas>	yes, in a way
13:03	<peter__>	i think he's saying that he can do the operation with the patch off
13:03	<peter__>	but not with the patch on
13:03	<peter__>	and that is inverse to the perceived logic of the option
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13:04	<peter__>	however, the logic of that line does not do what he states
13:04	<peter__>	or does it?
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13:04	<peter__>	hmm, true if they're too close i guess...
13:05	<peter__>	no it's not
13:06	<peter__>	oh i don't know :p
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13:09	<@Bjarni>	oops I killed pv2b
13:09	<peter__>	oh well
13:09	<@Bjarni>	looks like that PM was pretty harmful
13:09	<peter__>	who's next?
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13:10	<@Bjarni>	hmm
13:10	<@Bjarni>	how about dih?
13:10	<@Belugas>	what I read out of that line is that primary industries are not allowed when same_industry_close optin is set.
13:10	<@Bjarni>	he always acted suspicious anyway
13:11	<@Belugas>	when that patch is not set, it is the regyual scheme that goes on
13:11	<dih>	thanks for that
13:11	<@Bjarni>	:P
13:11	<peter__>	Belugas, not quite right
13:11	<@Belugas>	no... indeed...
13:11	<peter__>	that line means if it's set, then a primary industry can be anywhere
13:11	<dih>	Bjarni: i'll take that as a 'sign' of appreciation
13:12	<dih>	or is it supposed to mean that peter__?
13:12	<peter__>	so that line is not a problem at all. he's highlighted the wrong part.
13:12	<murray>	quick question: do you get all of the production from a mine/similar even if you cover just one square?
13:12	<@Belugas>	peter__, can't be... return true
13:12	<@Belugas>	unless the code and th function name is misleading...
13:12	[~]	Belugas checks
13:13	<peter__>	Belugas, it is
13:13	<peter__>	Belugas, see the error ones, they return false
13:13	<@Belugas>	hum... true...
13:13	<peter__>	basically in that function, setting the patch option cannot make it not do what it would do without the option
13:14	<peter__>	(careful of negatives there, heh)
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13:16	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: peter1138 * r11783 /trunk/src/engine.cpp: -Codechange: compare engine type with its type property, not by its index
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13:23	<@Belugas>	hoo..... NOW i understand!
13:23	<peter__>	hmm?
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13:23	<peter__>	the function or sirkoz?
13:24	<dih>	LOL
13:25	<dih>	Belugas: care to enlighten us?
13:26	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: peter1138 * r11784 /trunk/src/ (engine.cpp engine.h misc.cpp newgrf.cpp oldloader.cpp): -Codechange: set up initial engine data in one place
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13:34	<Roujin>	good evening
13:36	<@Bjarni>	hi
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13:47	<LA[lord]>	you are boring guys... no words in 10 minutes already...
13:47	[~]	LA[lord] goes off to do some more interesting stuff
13:47	<@Belugas>	the function indeed :D
13:47	<dih>	lol
13:48	<dih>	and? what did you find out Belugas?
13:48	<@Belugas>	Sirkoz just jumped on a conclusion
13:48	<@Belugas>	and not even cared to try
13:50	<dih>	heh
13:50	<dih>	yes - i know that of some people
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13:52	<@Belugas>	and i've got rerouted to a search that was not the subject of the initial problem....
13:52	<@Belugas>	that is typical of me too ;)
13:52	<peter__>	heh
13:53	<pavel1269>	peter__: what about our game? :P
13:53	<dih>	peter and pavel play a game?
13:53	[~]	dih just does not want to know about this
13:53	<pavel1269>	why?
13:54	<dih>	j/k
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13:57	<@Belugas>	and in fact, the same_industry_close patch really means, as peter__ mentionned, that primary industries can be built close to each other
13:57	<@Belugas>	the type been the GENERAL type of industries
13:58	<@Belugas>	not the spcific type of indu, like... a coal mine, or a water tower
14:00	<dih>	but could it be that in the game it's acting differently
14:00	<dih>	i could not imagin him making a statement based on code he read
14:00	<dih>	but on something he noticed in a game
14:01	<peter__>	yes... which means he picked the wrong bit of code to bully, heh
14:01	<dih>	:-P
14:01	<+glx>	as often ;)
14:02	<dih>	but none the less found something that is not supposed to act like that?
14:05	<@Belugas>	i more than anythng ele suspect indspec->conflicting[0]
14:05	<@Belugas>	water tower is conflicting with water supply
14:06	<@Belugas>	but with the same_industry_close, the same conflict is not tested while putting water supply o map
14:07	<@Belugas>	therefor...
14:07	<@Belugas>	the behaviour is fine, but the wording and name of var is far from been right :S
14:08	<dih>	did not get that sorry
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14:14	<@Belugas>	next test is for conflicts. water tower conflicts with water supply (se build_industry.h). it is refused
14:15	<@Belugas>	so the same_industry_close (because of the CT_INVALID) does not affect secondary industries (the water tower)
14:15	<@Belugas>	therefore, it does not get out of the function on first test.
14:15	<@Belugas>	see? simple...
14:16	<@Belugas>	the name of the patch option is wrong. It should be primary_industry_close, or something like that
14:16	<@Belugas>	as well as the labeling on the settings option
14:17	<@Belugas>	am i making more sens?
14:17	<dih>	yes
14:17	<dih>	thank you Belugas :-)
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14:22	\|-\|	Tino\|Home changed nick to TinoM
14:23	<@Belugas>	so... now... time to do some house cleaning...
14:30	[~]	Belugas mogwaies
14:38	<Wolf01>	'night
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14:42	<peter__>	Belugas, no
14:42	<peter__>	Belugas, the patch option is used further on too
14:42	<peter__>	so it's not just for primary industries
14:43	<dih>	?
14:43	<dih>	you wanna explain? :-)
14:44	<peter__>	no :)
14:44	<dih>	lol
14:45	<dih>	c'mon, dont be a spoil sport
14:48	<Sacro>	rawr
14:48	<@Belugas>	well...
14:48	<@Belugas>	yeah...
14:48	<@Belugas>	but...
14:48	<@Belugas>	arghh...
14:48	<@Belugas>	COMMENTS!!!!
14:50	[~]	dih is clueless
14:51	<dih>	don't hesitate to enlighten me :-)
14:51	<LA[lord]>	hmm... I won't hesitate to say good night instead..so: Good night
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14:58	[~]	Bjarni logs dih's statement
14:59	<@Bjarni>	well... at least you aren't alex_fili
15:00	<Rubidium>	Bjarni: are you sure of that?
15:00	<@Bjarni>	he managed to produce a diff
15:00	<@Bjarni>	and it's not insane
15:01	<@Bjarni>	Alex didn't even understand what header files for libraries are used for and presumed that just ignoring them when installing a lib didn't matter
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15:05	<@Bjarni>	http://qdb.us/56571 <-- found him
15:05	<dih>	what are you logging Bjarni?
15:05	<dih>	which statement do you mean
15:05	\|-\|	\|Jeroen\| [~jeroen@d51A47061.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: oO]
15:05	<dih>	and are you taking it out of context :-P
15:05	<@Bjarni>	[20:50:51][20:50:51] * dih is clueless
15:05	<@Bjarni>	[20:51:02][20:51:02] <dih> don't hesitate to enlighten me :-)
15:05	<dih>	yes - you answered my last question :-D
15:06	<@Bjarni>	context?
15:06	<@Bjarni>	you really are demanding
15:06	<dih>	lol
15:06	<@Bjarni>	and now you laugh at yourself... you really are clueless
15:07	<@Bjarni>	but at least you are trustworthy
15:07	<dih>	put it into connection with SirkoZ, peter__ and Belugas (last conversation)
15:07	<dih>	thanks for that
15:07	<dih>	trustworty in the sense that i will always laugh at myself i take it :-P
15:07	<Gonozal_VIII>	i'm here, worship me
15:07	<@Bjarni>	hey that's my line
15:07	<Gonozal_VIII>	bjarni!
15:08	<@Bjarni>	you are following a false developer
15:08	<dih>	lol
15:08	<ludde>	i'm here, worship me
15:08	<dih>	rofl
15:08	<@Bjarni>	:D
15:08	<@Bjarni>	can't argue with that
15:09	<@Belugas>	we all do, Lord Ludde ;)
15:09	<dih>	i'll not argue with the "i'm here" part :-)
15:09	<Rubidium>	Bjarni: I think we should call him His Excellency Lord ludde
15:09	<@Bjarni>	not a bad idea
15:10	<@Belugas>	trye, Lord is reserved to Darkvater ^_^
15:10	<dih>	create an alias in DorpsGek
15:10	<dih>	@lude
15:10	<@Bjarni>	@lude???
15:10	<dih>	to return the full His Excellency Lord ludde