TheGrebs.com:IRC Logs:#openttd:2007:08:24

---	Log	opened Fri Aug 24 00:00:10 2007
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03:16	<TrueBrain>	Sacro: you made that? :)
03:16	<TrueBrain>	downside of MLCad is that you can't render in a simple way
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03:44	<Syphic>	hey
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03:45	<Syphic>	anyone in here in the game by FacePLant? or something like that?
03:46	<@Bjarni>	what is FacePLant?
03:46	<Syphic>	one of the servers
03:46	<@Bjarni>	oh
03:46	<@Bjarni>	well, I'm not ;)
03:47	<Syphic>	Its called Face_Punch_*****
03:47	<Syphic>	are u playing any games? atm?
03:47	<@Bjarni>	actually I'm playing a cool game right now called RL
03:48	<Syphic>	RL?
03:48	<Syphic>	RealLive?
03:48	<@Bjarni>	it's about how other people will make you pay fortunes for nearly nothing
03:48	<Syphic>	oops RealLife*
03:48	<@Bjarni>	yeah
03:48	<Syphic>	ah ok
03:48	<@Bjarni>	the point is to avoid such incidents, which can be tricky :s
03:49	<Syphic>	got ya... well im more of a ttd person biz games
03:49	<Syphic>	what does NoBrk stand for?
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03:50	<TheMask96>	No Breakdowns
03:50	<Syphic>	thx
03:50	<Syphic>	so is anyone in here actually playing ttd?
03:51	<TrueBrain>	nah, we just hang here
03:51	<Syphic>	do yall even like the game
03:53	<Syphic>	anyways ltr
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03:58	<alex_>	Syphic has quit (Quit: The early bird may get the worm, but the second mouse gets the cheese)
03:58	<alex_>	WTF
03:58	<alex_>	what the hell is that supposed to mean?
03:58	<Rubidium>	that the first mouse dies in the mouse trap
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04:09	<Nickman>	hi all
04:10	<alex_>	lol Rubidium
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04:39	<TrueBrain>	http://devs.openttd.org/~truelight/lego030.png
04:39	<TrueBrain>	somehow I think it isn't that clear...
04:39	<Nickman>	looks cool
04:39	<TrueBrain>	but you can't really see the topleft thing of going down
04:40	<Nickman>	that is indeed hard to see
04:40	<TrueBrain>	then it is always a bit hard to see
04:40	<TrueBrain>	but still
04:40	<Nickman>	:)
04:40	<Nickman>	maybe you should see it on a bigger scale?
04:40	<TrueBrain>	means adding more tiles ;)
04:40	<Nickman>	like bigger platform
04:40	<Nickman>	:D
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04:44	<TrueBrain>	more often I am fighting Blender than that it is working for me :p
04:44	<TrueBrain>	hidden options all over the place :p
04:44	<Nickman>	hehe, you need to know the right keys to press ;)
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04:51	<Progman>	TrueBrain: is it a raised tile or corner?
04:52	<Progman>	maybe its better to use the roof-stones instead of this
04:52	<TrueBrain>	but then you can't build on it
04:52	<Nickman>	it's a bit slippery then :)
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04:57	<Progman>	am I right you are using only 3 level steps instead of 4?
04:57	<Progman>	maybe it works better if you start rasing at the edge of the tile
04:57	<TrueBrain>	4 steps is the next floor
04:58	<TrueBrain>	in this case it looks like 3, but that is beause the top isn't part of the next floor yet
04:58	<TrueBrain>	hmm, height is fucked up anyway :(
04:59	<Progman>	can you raise a tile and post a screenshot?
04:59	<TrueBrain>	after correcting the height, I will
05:01	<TrueBrain>	http://devs.openttd.org/~truelight/lego031.png
05:01	<TrueBrain>	not 100% perfect yet
05:04	<Progman>	and if you use the relation "3 lego-steps ~ 1 ottd height"?
05:04	<TrueBrain>	but okay, it indeed is a 3 step
05:05	<Progman>	anyway, you get it ;)
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05:21	<TrueBrain>	hmm, I really need to make that 4 lego steps are 1 ottd height
05:21	<TrueBrain>	so far the attempts ... well... failed :p
05:21	<TrueBrain>	hehe
05:23	<Noldo>	so in that picture the top most stud of the slope is the same height as the top of the hill?
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05:26	<TrueBrain>	I need to make a few other pictures first, before I can see if this really works :)
05:32	<TrueBrain>	and now, now I need to pick up my gf :) Be back later, much later :p
05:33	<TrueBrain>	http://devs.openttd.org/~truelight/lego032.png
05:33	<TrueBrain>	far from perfect :p
05:34	<Progman>	but almost close ;)
05:35	<blathijs>	TrueBrain: That's rendered by openttd? Nice :-)
05:36	<Noldo>	I wonder hos the will could jump up more
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05:45	<kaan>	hi all
05:46	<Noldo>	s/hos/how/ and s/will/hill/
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06:01	<Nickman^Away>	TrueBrain, looking good ;)
06:02	<Noldo>	TrueBrain: what git version do you use?
06:02	<Rubidium>	I guess gentoo's latest stable
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06:16	<TrueBrain>	hmm, it looked better then I thought :)
06:16	<TrueBrain>	how nice ;)
06:21	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	i really like the new green
06:24	<blathijs>	TrueBrain: Did you try using the "schuine blokjes" for the slops instead of a stairs of blocks?
06:24	<blathijs>	angled bricks, would be the word
06:25	<TrueBrain>	blathijs: you can't build on those!
06:26	<Noldo>	:)
06:28	<blathijs>	:-)
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07:20	<svip>	Hm.
07:20	<svip>	What variable in _prices stores how much it cost to clear farmland?
07:23	<Maedhros>	have a look in ClearTile_Clear
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07:30	<svip>	GetClearGround, hm. :O
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07:47	<Digitalfox>	Hello :)
07:48	<Digitalfox>	What do i need to create a portuguese newgrf of town names?? Decode one already existing for other language and replace names or is there some tutorial?
07:49	<Maedhros>	this is the manual page: http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=ActionF
07:49	<izhirahider>	Digitalfox, hey
07:50	<+glx>	Digitalfox: I converted 2 of the original OTTD townname generators into action F http://glx.dnsalias.net:8080/openttd/townname/
07:50	<izhirahider>	Digitalfox, Sorry for that, I haven't had time for it before
07:50	<Digitalfox>	hey izhirahider :)
07:50	<izhirahider>	and seriously, the newgrf thing kinda turned me down considerably
07:50	<Digitalfox>	izhirahider: I know, that's why i'm going to try
07:52	<izhirahider>	What time do you have for it?
07:53	<Digitalfox>	glx, tha's cool :) but if there were one in english, at least would be easier, but i can always translate sweden to english and then english to portuguese :)
07:53	<Digitalfox>	izhirahider: A lot ;)
07:54	<+glx>	Digitalfox: I can't convert the english generators because they use ReplaceWord()
07:54	<Digitalfox>	ok
07:54	<Digitalfox>	So anyone knows a good site for translating sweden to english? ;)
07:55	<+glx>	what do you want translate?
07:55	<colle>	http://lexin.nada.kth.se/swe-eng.html
07:55	<+glx>	there are just list of townname parts
07:58	<Digitalfox>	Well, for me is easy to just translate the names on sweden to portuguese and try to make the newgrf worl well :)
07:58	<izhirahider>	it doesn't work like that Digitalfox
07:58	<+glx>	you want to translate townnames?
07:58	<izhirahider>	our town generator is much more complex
07:58	<izhirahider>	it requires programming
07:58	<izhirahider>	I'm affraid newgrf doesn't allow that, only combinations per se
07:59	<Digitalfox>	Well i'll give it a shot anyway!
08:01	<+glx>	jpset_namw.grf uses only full names
08:01	<Digitalfox>	ok
08:02	<Digitalfox>	I'll try and see what i can do..
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08:03	<+glx>	izhirahider: can I see your generator?
08:03	<izhirahider>	glx, thanks for asking. I'll quite busy at this time to send it though, maybe at some later time I can show you, if you don't mind
08:04	<+glx>	np
08:06	<TrueBrain>	http://devs.openttd.org/~truelight/lego033.png
08:06	<TrueBrain>	it looks ugly :(
08:06	<TrueBrain>	depth perception totally fails
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08:08	<+glx>	TrueBrain: wrong offset for one it seems
08:08	<Progman>	weird antialias thing
08:08	<TrueBrain>	glx: no, not all tiles are converted to the new coordinates :)
08:09	<TrueBrain>	and the red is just a silly thing of me :)
08:10	<+glx>	use a lighter green if possible
08:10	<TrueBrain>	still doesn't give any depth perception
08:14	<Noldo>	the slopes aren't exactly the same color in the originals
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08:25	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	<TrueBrain> depth perception totally fails <- a grid might help that :)
08:26	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	<Noldo> the slopes aren't exactly the same color in the originals <- yes, but here, slopes are not slopes, but steps of flat tiles, so you don't have "lighting effects" to explain the colours (especially on the backwards slopes)
08:26	<Nickman^Away>	it's a bit to green i think TrueBrain... :D
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08:27	<Nickman^Away>	to much of the same clour
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08:30	<TrueBrain>	[15:25][15:25] <Eddi\|zuHause3> <TrueBrain> depth perception totally fails <- a grid might help that :) <- nope, 1 tile itself doens't have depth perception
08:30	<@Belugas>	i'll go along glx's opinion: colors might do the trick
08:30	<TrueBrain>	Belugas: nope, tried :(
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08:35	<Noldo>	you are going to end up modeling it with blender
08:35	<frosch123>	Who wants to pay 4.99 pounds for TTDP?
08:35	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	i'd suggest different colours per height level, but the system probably does not allow this
08:35	<TrueBrain>	this _is_ blender
08:37	<Noldo>	:(
08:38	<@Belugas>	for TTD<P> ???
08:39	<frosch123>	The advertisment on openttd.org
08:39	<@Belugas>	TrueBrain, i guess that blender is good, but doing some manual modifications are good too :)
08:39	<@Belugas>	IIRC, this is the conclusion Wolf01 came up with
08:40	<@Belugas>	frosch123, i don't see that. Maybe a banner thing :(
08:40	<Noldo>	google ads
08:41	<joosa`>	e links
08:41	<joosa`>	pe1617.16 [Users #openttd]
08:41	<joosa`>	oops
08:41	<joosa`>	pe1617.16 [@Belugas ] [ BTH_ ] [ eQualizer ] [ marc-andre ] [ raimar3 ] [ TheMask96 ]
08:41	<joosa`>	sry, the mouse dropped and clicked paste
08:43	<joosa`>	I got a strong deja vu from that.
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08:44	<frosch123>	Well, it links to a page, where it seems you could buy TTDX with win XP support for 4.99 pounds.
08:45	<frosch123>	But the FAQ says: "All the games mentioned on this site are Abandonware. We do not sell these games. What we do sell, is the ability to play these games on Windows XP. The money that you pay, is ONLY buying our software and packaging costs."
08:45	<frosch123>	So I guess, they sell TTDP on a nice CD or something.
08:46	<ln->	well that's not illegal.
08:46	<frosch123>	No, I just asked, who wants to buy TTDP for 4.99.
08:46	<@Belugas>	ho... TTDX... I kinda remember an offer similar to that one, but with the screenshot provided, it looked more like OTTD then TTDP
08:46	<ln->	if they sell the "abandonware" game too, then it is illegal.
08:46	<@Belugas>	it was on EBay, IIRC
08:47	<frosch123>	Well the abandonware thingy is only in the "tiny things". I cannot see it on the main selling page.
08:48	<Noldo>	quite interesting business logic I have to say
08:56	<skidd13>	Today I found out a quite interesting point regarding the legal existence of openttd. Even if ATATRI forbids OpenTTD (What isn't legal anyway) they have to pay all the developers and patch writers for their work. =) And they probably won't.
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10:03	<svip>	:[
10:03	<svip>	Should I add a button to the railway/road/etc. building toolbars.
10:03	<svip>	Or to the main toolbar.
10:05	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	maybe add a submenu to the landscaping button, one entry opens the terraforming toolbar, and the other the "land usage" toolbar, with different sets of highlighting filters (town rating, tile owner etc.)
10:06	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	railtype!!
10:07	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	it's one of the long standing feature requests, a way to easily spot stray unelectrified pieces of rail
10:07	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	and the tile highlighting sounds like the perfect solution
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10:10	<svip>	Aha!
10:10	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	other idea for filter: accepted goods
10:10	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	but that can be extended later :)
10:10	<svip>	:)
10:11	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	it could also be a submenu entry of another button
10:11	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	like where the transparency toolbar is
10:11	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	that even sounds like a better idea :)
10:12	<svip>	Huh?
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10:13	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	you know the transparency gui?
10:13	<svip>	I do not.
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10:16	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	svip: in the options menu (the one with the wrench), there is "game options", "difficulty options", "patch options", "newgrf options" and "transparency options"
10:17	<svip>	Ah.
10:17	<svip>	Sounds like a plan.
10:20	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	there you can add "highlighting options"
10:21	<svip>	Good idea.
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10:44	<frosch123>	bye, going home...
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10:47	<TrueBrain>	k, girlfriend is sleeping
10:47	<TrueBrain>	back to the blender
10:48	<@peter1138>	with the frogs?
10:48	<TrueBrain>	kwak!
10:48	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	frogs say "quak" here...
10:48	<TrueBrain>	does it look like I care? :p
10:49	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	do you care if i said 'yes'?
10:50	\|-\|	Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-193-46-fixip.tiscali.ch] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
10:50	<TrueBrain>	yes
10:50	<TrueBrain>	as it means I can run an other @kick line ;)
10:50	<TrueBrain>	MWHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
10:50	<TrueBrain>	HA
10:50	<TrueBrain>	HA
10:51	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	hmm... i'm not in a mood to be kicked right now...
10:51	<TrueBrain>	pfew :p
10:54	<TrueBrain>	bah, I need a real artist in here :p
10:54	<TrueBrain>	as I can't make it like I would like to :p
10:55	<svip>	:P
10:56	<TrueBrain>	I can't get this depth visible :(
10:57	<TrueBrain>	I guess I need a second sun :)
10:58	<@Belugas>	in here, frogs would rather sound like "wrebbit" ;)
10:59	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	those are american frogs :p
11:00	<svip>	Hm.
11:00	<svip>	SVN question.
11:00	<svip>	If I rename a file, how do I coupe with that?
11:00	<svip>	Like with svn add stuff.
11:01	<TrueBrain>	svn move
11:01	<@Bjarni>	svn move file new_file
11:01	<TrueBrain>	amazing how simple life is :p
11:01	<@Bjarni>	svn help move (if you really need to read this)
11:01	<@Bjarni>	you might want to read "svn help" anyway to see what it can do for you
11:01	<Nickman>	so, no progress on thebricks TrueBrain? :)
11:02	<TrueBrain>	backward progress :p
11:02	<Nickman>	that's bad progress :D
11:02	<Nickman>	I'm at episode 18 of heroes ATM :)
11:03	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	that's where insert really bad spoiler here?
11:03	<Nickman>	hehe :D
11:03	<Nickman>	I don't really care about spoilers, but the rest in here might ;)
11:03	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	i care...
11:03	<TrueBrain>	but we don't care about the rest :)
11:03	<TrueBrain>	you is all that matters!
11:03	<@Bjarni>	wtf is heroes?
11:03	<Nickman>	lol
11:04	<Nickman>	a series
11:04	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	the greatest series on earth...
11:04	<TrueBrain>	Bjarni: clearly you aren't :p
11:04	<Nickman>	the greatest? hehe
11:04	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	yeah, it's way beyond lost...
11:04	<Nickman>	Lost gives to little answers and to much questions :)
11:05	<@Bjarni>	yeah, I might not care about spoilers from heroes
11:05	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	Bjarni: you would if you watched it...
11:05	<@Bjarni>	and "episode 18 of heroes" kind of gave the series part of it away ;)
11:06	<TrueBrain>	http://devs.openttd.org/~truelight/lego034.png
11:06	<TrueBrain>	at least I have the height figured out
11:06	<TrueBrain>	hmm, not 100%, but almost in fact :p
11:07	<Nickman>	that's cool :)
11:07	<Nickman>	the tiles going down on the top right have a bug in them
11:07	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	the steps look kind of irregular... especially the backwards down steps
11:07	<Nickman>	yep
11:08	<TrueBrain>	on the back are wrong somehow yes
11:08	<TrueBrain>	but to the front are perfect, as far as I can tell
11:08	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	yeah, but the half-slopes have different step size than the full slopes
11:08	<TrueBrain>	full slopes are the only one done
11:08	<TrueBrain>	ignore the rest
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11:09	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	the upwards slopes on the right also have a wrong step height
11:09	<TrueBrain>	?
11:10	<Nickman>	how are you making them nowe TrueBrain?
11:10	<TrueBrain>	Nickman: via Blender
11:10	<Nickman>	:D
11:10	<Nickman>	you can test the commandline rendering ;)
11:11	<TrueBrain>	that too :)
11:11	<Nickman>	go for it ;)
11:11	<Nickman>	:D
11:11	<TrueBrain>	just the light is wrong
11:11	<TrueBrain>	which sucks
11:12	<TrueBrain>	I can also make it a bit transparent? :)
11:12	<Nickman>	:p
11:12	<Nickman>	there is a lightning setup somewhere on the forums?
11:12	<TrueBrain>	yes
11:12	<TrueBrain>	via wiki
11:12	<TrueBrain>	in a blender file
11:12	<TrueBrain>	not the most clear way, if you ask me
11:12	<TrueBrain>	but okay
11:12	<Nickman>	:p
11:13	<Nickman>	make it clearer ;)
11:14	<svip>	Hm, Eddi\|zuHause3.
11:14	<svip>	I have formed an idea!
11:14	<TrueBrain>	oh-oh
11:14	<Nickman>	:D
11:14	<svip>	How about we allow the users to pick which "tile" type they want to use for a specific highlight.
11:14	<Sacro>	TrueBrain: did you see my rendering?
11:14	<TrueBrain>	Sacro: I believe so yes
11:14	<svip>	Like "use select highlight for A, and inner highlight for B."
11:14	<TrueBrain>	it was pretty nice :)
11:15	<TrueBrain>	too bad it is almost imposisble to go from MLCad to any real renderer
11:15	<Sacro>	TrueBrain: real... like POV-RAY?
11:15	<svip>	So there will be small drop down menus showing all possible zoning.
11:15	<TrueBrain>	POV really sucks :s
11:15	<Sacro>	or like Blender?
11:15	<Sacro>	you can go ldraw -> blender
11:15	<svip>	Does text in a window require a widget?
11:15	<TrueBrain>	Sacro: tried, I couldn't find anything
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11:17	<svip>	And how do I make a drop down box widget?
11:17	<Nickman>	maybe a plugin TrueBrain?
11:18	<TrueBrain>	Nickman: tried, I couldn't find anything
11:18	<Nickman>	look harder!!! :D
11:18	<Nickman>	I wanna play with lego :(
11:18	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	svip: hm, i don't really like that idea... either only use the inner highlighting, or make a colour variant for the outer highlighting, if it would collide with mouse selection (white, red, blue)
11:19	<TrueBrain>	currently I am confirming my upwards slope is pixel perfect
11:19	<TrueBrain>	and it is :) :)
11:19	<Nickman>	;)
11:19	<TrueBrain>	oh doh
11:19	<TrueBrain>	not 100%
11:19	<TrueBrain>	like 95% :p
11:19	<Nickman>	that's not the way to roll!
11:19	<svip>	I disagree, I still like it, Eddi\|zuHause3.
11:20	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	svip: the GUI should not get too complicated
11:20	<svip>	That's why people pick some sane choices for the "outer" highlight.
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11:20	<svip>	It won't.
11:20	<TrueBrain>	k, then I wonder, the backwards going down stuff
11:20	<TrueBrain>	does it just LOOK wrong
11:20	<TrueBrain>	or is it really wrong...
11:21	<Nickman>	is IS :D
11:21	<Nickman>	it cuts off a piece
11:21	<TrueBrain>	no, it looks wrong
11:21	<TrueBrain>	because it misses other tiles
11:21	<Nickman>	when there are two tiles below each other
11:21	<Nickman>	the upper one seems to be to high
11:22	<Nickman>	it covers to much of the tile below it
11:22	<Sacro>	TrueBrain: google ldraw to blender
11:22	<TrueBrain>	Sacro: I searched for ldr to blender :p
11:22	<Nickman>	:p
11:23	<Sacro>	TrueBrain: a rather primitive scanner?
11:23	<TrueBrain>	would be useful if you could load them directly :)
11:23	<TrueBrain>	but I have to say I am not using the correct scaling :s
11:23	<Sacro>	hmm, the site is wrong
11:24	<Sacro>	well i can render to a bmp
11:24	<Sacro>	but if i can export to blender, that'd be easier
11:24	<Sacro>	cos then i can just do models
11:24	<TrueBrain>	you want models :)
11:24	<TrueBrain>	anyway, the Z-scaling isn't the same as the X/Y scaling
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11:24	<TrueBrain>	that I needed to make it look right
11:24	<TrueBrain>	(else you go up twice as fast)
11:25	<Sacro>	mmm
11:25	<Sacro>	it's not orthographic is it?
11:25	<TrueBrain>	but for most other things that won't be a real problem I guess...
11:26	<TrueBrain>	Sacro: I refuse to comment on it, as I have it always wrong :p
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11:26	<TrueBrain>	hmm, I wish I knew how to change the grid in Blender :)
11:26	<TrueBrain>	hi skidd13, wb :)
11:26	<Sacro>	TrueBrain: hehe
11:26	<Sacro>	well i did a nice model of a freight wagon
11:26	<TrueBrain>	It was very nice indeed :)
11:27	<TrueBrain>	find a way to get it imported :)
11:27	<Sacro>	i shall
11:27	<Sacro>	well do you want PNG renders?
11:27	<Sacro>	or a model?
11:27	<TrueBrain>	model would be best
11:27	<TrueBrain>	as then we can apply the same lightning as all other models
11:27	<TrueBrain>	and proofs Nickman's concept, that the 32bpp site should only accepts blender files :)
11:28	<Nickman>	;)
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11:28	<Sacro>	yes, alright
11:28	<TrueBrain>	hmm, it looks like on the backwards stuff, the drawing is done in the wrong order...
11:28	<skidd13>	TrueBrain: :)
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11:29	<Sacro>	grrr, the web.mac.com is down
11:29	<Nickman>	that too could be possible TrueBrain ;)
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11:30	<Wolf01>	hello
11:30	<TrueBrain>	hi Wolf01 :)
11:30	<TrueBrain>	http://devs.openttd.org/~truelight/lego034.png <- via Blender :)
11:30	<Wolf01>	nice :)
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11:31	<TrueBrain>	it is a bit wrong
11:31	<TrueBrain>	just slightly
11:31	<TrueBrain>	but it annoys me
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11:31	<_Ben_>	TrueBrain is it the slightly increase for the 4th step thats a bit wrong?
11:31	<Priski>	lego theme would be lot nicer than toyland
11:32	<TrueBrain>	_Ben_: yes, the height of a single tile just doesn't work out with the next tile
11:32	<TrueBrain>	so step 1 and step 4 are a mismatch
11:32	<TrueBrain>	about 0.2 pixel :p
11:32	<_Ben_>	It seems to work really nicely on the slope on the bottom right, why not mirror that?
11:32	<TrueBrain>	_Ben_: they _are_ mirrored... Blender -> Anim, 4 frames with different viewpoint
11:33	<_Ben_>	I mean mirror the render (for the bottom to front facing sides
11:33	<_Ben_>	)
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11:34	<TrueBrain>	they should be an exact mirror... let me check
11:35	<TrueBrain>	bah, even thinking seems to fail.. it is hot in here :(
11:36	<Wolf01>	i hope that when you'll finish it you'll remember to credit me :D
11:36	<TrueBrain>	hehe :p
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11:37	<TrueBrain>	_Ben_: btw, thisone you might know: the backwards going down thingies have very bad depth view, because the light comes from the front (where the user looks from)
11:37	<TrueBrain>	any easy way to give it back some depth prespective?
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11:38	<_Ben_>	brightness-contrast in PS, or paint.net (not shore about gimp). maybe hue-saturation a little also
11:38	<TrueBrain>	is it possible via Blender?
11:39	<_Ben_>	hmm, yes, changing the diffuse settings should do it, I'm not exactly shore how to do that, I always do it post render, as its quicker to get correct
11:39	<TrueBrain>	hehe :)
11:39	<svip>	Does WE_PAINT mean?
11:39	<TrueBrain>	any chance you also know how to change the grid-size in Blender? :p
11:40	<Wolf01>	svip: put there what you need to paint
11:40	<svip>	As in drawing the window?
11:40	<Wolf01>	is a window event
11:40	<Wolf01>	usually there you draw the widgets and other things
11:41	<_Ben_>	TrueBrain: no idea I'm affriad. The grid is usually just used to give an idea of scale, you move things relative to it, rather than changing it
11:41	<TrueBrain>	_Ben_: but you have this lovely clipping
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11:41	<TrueBrain>	clipping = snap
11:41	<TrueBrain>	having lego it would be very useful to use snap to grid :)
11:41	<Wolf01>	TrueBrain, but in lego you can see the grid :D
11:42	<svip>	Okay...
11:42	<svip>	That's a pretty messed up window.
11:42	<Wolf01>	in temperate you don't... at least, i've never seen a grid around in real world
11:42	<_Ben_>	ah, I see what you mean. In max its called the angle snap toggle. I'm not shore where that is in blender, but try searching for that name
11:42	<TrueBrain>	k, tnx :)
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11:46	<TrueBrain>	_Ben_: Nickman had to idea to only allow .blend files to be uploaded for the 32bpp website, so we have the source files, instead of just the PNG.. bad idea / good idea?
11:47	<Nickman>	and we render the PNG files ourselfs on a server ;)
11:47	<Nickman>	(I could provide some CPU power for that matter ;))
11:47	<_Ben_>	TrueBrain, It would certaintly be a good idea to get hold of the source of models, otherwise preview shots are nothign more than a teezer
11:48	<TrueBrain>	but are .blend files all that we need? I mean, you already talk about doing it post-render, some changes
11:48	<Nickman>	I think the .blend files (or other "source" files should be neccesary) and maybe the PNG should be uploaded to...
11:48	<_Ben_>	2 problems. a lot of people don't use blender, including myself most of the time. 2) a lot of people seem to be reluctant to release models under gpl, but would prefer credit (cc-sa)
11:49	<Nickman>	credit CAN be provided...
11:49	<Nickman>	that won't be much of a problem I think?
11:49	<Nickman>	the one that uploads the source gets the credit...
11:49	<Noldo>	Nickman: gpl doesn't promise that everybody who uses the file gives credit
11:50	<TrueBrain>	credits aren't the problem, as long as we, as OpenTTD Developers Team, are free to do with the graphics (and source files) what ever we want
11:50	<TrueBrain>	I have no idea which licenses provide that :)
11:50	<Nickman>	No, but when they upload the file to this site, their name is next to it, so whoever downloads them, sees who it is from...
11:50	<TrueBrain>	Nickman: more when we release a 32bpp set (if ever)
11:50	<Nickman>	what do you mean? The credit will be gone then?
11:51	<TrueBrain>	Nickman: there are, what, 10000 images?
11:51	<_Ben_>	hmm, well if its specific to openttd, they could be completly copyright as long as there is personally permission that openttd can use them, and release them. But then the release of openttd with graphics would have to hold that liecence, so if its all gpl as it currently is? then there would be an issue
11:51	<Nickman>	Place it somwhere in a txt file or somthing, where do the credits of the developers go? :)
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11:51	<TrueBrain>	Nickman: long long long long long list :)
11:51	<TrueBrain>	_Ben_: I will ask around which licenses fits both
11:51	<Nickman>	yeah...
11:51	<Nickman>	(y)
11:51	<Nickman>	oeps
11:51	<Nickman>	no kick TrueBrain :s
11:52	<_Ben_>	cool, cheers. Would be nice to resolve that. I think a lot of artists would be motivated if credit is enshored
11:52	<TrueBrain>	credits, as in, naming who made which image, can't be a real issue
11:52	<TrueBrain>	just it will be a long list :p
11:52	<Nickman>	where are the credits of the developers?
11:52	<TrueBrain>	readme.txt
11:52	<Nickman>	yeah... indeed
11:52	<Nickman>	well
11:52	<Nickman>	make the list longer when needed ;)
11:53	<TrueBrain>	ideal, for us, would be that they give up the credits as GPL to OpenTTD Developer Team, and get credits in graphics.txt or what ever :)
11:53	<_Ben_>	yeah
11:54	<Nickman>	credits won't be that big of a problem I think :)
11:54	<Nickman>	there are a lot of ways of handling it
11:55	<Nickman>	I'm off to dinner ;)
11:55	<Sacro>	TrueBrain: i can't release models under the GPL
11:55	<Noldo>	GPL is a not the clearest license there is when it comes to media files
11:55	<TrueBrain>	I believe Creative License is the counter-part of GPL for images?
11:55	<Sacro>	at least, i don't think so
11:55	<_Ben_>	Sacro: why is that?
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11:58	<TrueBrain>	now I need to find this 'diffuse' option :p
11:58	<Sacro>	_Ben_: the renderings are free for personal/non commercial
11:58	<TrueBrain>	Sacro: we are non-commercial :) (we don't ask money :p)
12:00	<Wolf01>	TrueBrain, if i can find some .ldr of lego buildings, do you think that is possible to use them for brickland?
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12:00	<TrueBrain>	Wolf01: Sacro claims it can be done :)
12:00	<TrueBrain>	I couldn't find it
12:00	<_Ben_>	Truelight, In blender I think its called Amb and Ref, and there under the materials, wich is the red dot right of 'panels'
12:00	<TrueBrain>	k, tnx :)
12:00	<TrueBrain>	Materials I know to find :)
12:01	<TrueBrain>	ah, there, hidden! :)
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12:01	<_Ben_>	you are altering the materials rather than the LS though, so would need to do it to each. I have no idea on blend enviroment settings, which would be the other way to go about it
12:01	<Tekky>	Hi, I have a short question: The Signls Auto Completion Patch is in trunk, but not the corresponding signal GUI, is that correct?
12:02	<TrueBrain>	_Ben_: all my objects are linked to one single object, so changes to materials is instant for all :p
12:02	<Wolf01>	(and since the work is based on my hard work, maybe is me who should decide what license to use, don't you think so?)
12:02	<_Ben_>	ah, referenceing meshes. Thats pretty efficient
12:02	<TrueBrain>	Wolf01: we are not talking about brickland, a bit more general :)
12:03	<TrueBrain>	_Ben_: yeah, I hate doing things more often then strictly needed :p
12:03	<Wolf01>	ah ok
12:03	<TrueBrain>	Wolf01: and you no longer have a saying in what I do, as I started from scratch :p MWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA :)
12:04	<Wolf01>	the idea is mine, the images are derived from my work :)
12:04	<Wolf01>	i copyrighted the use of 4 studs per side
12:05	<Wolf01>	so you can use from 1 to 1000000 but not 4 or 0
12:05	<Wolf01>	:D
12:05	[~]	TrueBrain hugs Wolf01 :)
12:05	<TrueBrain>	how is your road going?
12:05	<TrueBrain>	is lego your work?
12:05	<TrueBrain>	cool :p
12:05	<TrueBrain>	but don't worry, you will get the credit you deserve :p
12:05	<TrueBrain>	nah, Wolf01, I doubt I will ever finish this any way, I just want to see if 32bpp has enough in it to make stuff like tiles :)
12:06	<Wolf01>	why not?
12:06	<TrueBrain>	too much work :p :p
12:06	<Sacro>	Wolf01: yep, ldr is fine
12:08	<Wolf01>	sacro, if you have some buildings... i can do 2 villas and some vehicles with my building instructions
12:08	<Sacro>	Wolf01: there are lots of instructions onine
12:08	<TrueBrain>	lol, and all of a sudden we are done with brickland ;)
12:08	<TrueBrain>	hehe
12:08	<Sacro>	and i have a huge box of them at home that I will collect
12:08	<Sacro>	TrueBrain: i've done a level crossing :p
12:09	<TrueBrain>	I have many many many instructions :p
12:09	<Sacro>	hehe
12:09	<Sacro>	it was great
12:09	<Sacro>	i spent ages rummaging around looking for parts
12:09	<Sacro>	it was like being 8 again
12:09	<TrueBrain>	my brother and I played it for ages :)
12:09	<Wolf01>	i prefer to not use stuff i find online, specially when i'm not sure about copyrights and licenses
12:09	<Sacro>	Wolf01: mmm,
12:09	<TrueBrain>	but I dunno if you can use any of the instructions at all
12:10	<Wolf01>	i crawl every day brickshelf
12:10	<Wolf01>	and i found a lot of stuff
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12:10	<Sacro>	TrueBrain: well we don't have to
12:11	<Sacro>	i was just having fun finding different types of bricks
12:11	<TrueBrain>	yeah, me 2 :) but it was ment for Wolf01, as he clearly wanted to copy the instructions
12:11	<Sacro>	well...
12:11	<Sacro>	i was going to steal the big yellow lego station
12:11	<Sacro>	http://news.lugnet.com/trains/?n=29412&t=i&v=a <- so nice
12:12	<TrueBrain>	but please first try to get a good image from ldr format
12:12	<TrueBrain>	or a blender
12:12	<Sacro>	i will upload some renderings later
12:12	<Sacro>	i need a users.tt-forums.net page
12:13	<TrueBrain>	as I truely wonder if we can make correct renders from ldr
12:13	<Sacro>	oooh, a class 06 shunter
12:13	<Sacro>	yes we can
12:13	<_Ben_>	the nice thing about a lego set is that it would only take a short while to create all the bits in one blend file, then just reference that and build up many models
12:13	<Sacro>	either through pov-ray, or blender
12:13	<TrueBrain>	Sacro: show me :)
12:13	<Sacro>	TrueBrain: i'm not at home :p
12:13	<TrueBrain>	_Ben_: exactly what I am trying to do right now :)
12:14	<TrueBrain>	_Ben_: just it takes a bit of time.... as Blender isn't the most logic application :(
12:14	<TrueBrain>	for example, it claims that you can link multiple colors to one object, but when you try to change it in your Proxy object, it refuses....
12:14	<TrueBrain>	grr
12:14	<Sacro>	and my battery is dying here
12:15	<Sacro>	oooh
12:15	<TrueBrain>	but okay, I now have a height problem... stupid scaling :p
12:15	<Sacro>	a BR APT
12:15	\|-\|	Wezz6400 [~Wezz6400@ndb.demon.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:15	<TrueBrain>	wait, it is supposed to be duplo...
12:15	<TrueBrain>	so I can scale down the Z an extra 50%
12:15	<Sacro>	yo