TheGrebs.com:IRC Logs:#openttd:2007:07:01

---	Log	opened Sun Jul 01 00:00:15 2007
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03:11	<kaan>	goodmorning
03:13	<stillunknown>	Anyone know good reading material on performance optimisation?
03:13	<hylje>	no
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03:14	<toresbe>	Hey guys :)
03:14	<hylje>	hi
03:14	[~]	toresbe checked out of SVN, heh.
03:14	<toresbe>	Kaboom!
03:15	<hylje>	soooo you are a code object?
03:15	<toresbe>	No, I just checked OpenTTD out of SVN to try that build. It went kaboom.
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03:15	<toresbe>	openttd: /home/toresbe/ottd-svn/trunk/src/player.h:241: Player* GetPlayer(PlayerID): Assertion `( (uint)((i) - (PLAYER_FIRST)) < ((uint)((sizeof(_players)/sizeof(_players[0])))) )' failed.
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03:15	<toresbe>	for the record.
03:16	<hylje>	that looks like a legitimate error
03:16	<toresbe>	Well, it's from SVN. It's trivially reproducible. Scenario editor > load scenario :)
03:16	<hylje>	id believe r10210 broke it
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03:17	<hylje>	with that type changing
03:17	<toresbe>	also, the pixmaps are on crack - where there should be arrows, there are now flags
03:18	<toresbe>	If I can be of any help, let me know. I have marginal competence in C++, but I should have nothing but time today, so...
03:19	<hylje>	you can help by tracking down which revision broke it
03:19	<hylje>	svn log src/player.h
03:22	<Alanin>	being back in few minutes
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03:27	<@peter1138>	it's known
03:29	<toresbe>	hylje: OK, noted, thanks. I'll do that in the future.
03:30	<toresbe>	Hrm. A weird problem, this time with the 0.5.2 release. When I use the UK NewGRF, I get new locomotives for maglev.. but that's all I get. No cars, no nothin'.
03:31	<hylje>	working as intended
03:31	<hylje>	ukrs maglevs come in whole vehicles
03:31	<@peter1138>	correct
03:31	<toresbe>	In whole vehicles? I see...
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03:32	<caladan>	so you dont get coal train traveling at 500km/h
03:32	<@peter1138>	toresbe: yeah, you buy the engine and the wagons come with it
03:33	<toresbe>	aha
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03:34	<toresbe>	Gack. They're only 10 long.
03:34	<toresbe>	I'll have to buy a bunch of them to push my kind of traffic...
03:34	<stillunknown>	I wish the map array had space to store information about the shape of tiles.
03:34	<caladan>	then use monorails :-)
03:34	<@peter1138>	stillunknown: shape? they're all square...
03:35	<hylje>	toresbe: well you do have to buy a lot of wagons for that kind of traffic anyway
03:35	<stillunknown>	I mean if it's flat, max_height and min_height.
03:35	<hylje>	toresbe: and you can chain those things as if those were wagons
03:35	<toresbe>	hylje: aaah!
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03:37	<stillunknown>	Or at least if it's flat tile, which cover a lot of situations.
03:39	<toresbe>	Hrm. Does it only carry goods?
03:39	<toresbe>	Or can I somehow change that to, say, wood?
03:39	<stillunknown>	You're not supposed to use maglev's for cargo.
03:40	<toresbe>	Really?
03:40	<toresbe>	It says "refittable" but I'm not quite sure how one goes about doing that.
03:40	<hylje>	you can refit it to goods and foods
03:40	<hylje>	and thats about it
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04:01	<eekee>	stillunknown: why that restriction?
04:02	<hylje>	because it doesnt make sense really
04:02	<toresbe>	why doesn't it?
04:02	<hylje>	too heavy
04:02	<eekee>	heheh
04:02	<hylje>	maglev relies on the fact stuff doesnt hit the bottom
04:03	<toresbe>	yeah, but in-game...
04:03	<eekee>	give me a sec, looking up the Japanese maglev test track site
04:03	<hylje>	ukrs is a realistic set
04:03	<hylje>	the default grf allow you to haul bugger all on whatever
04:03	<toresbe>	"bugger all" is a colloquialism for "nothing"
04:04	<hylje>	context is a fun thing
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04:07	<eekee>	Can't find the specific referance (It's too early for me) but I'm pretty sure somewhere on here http://www.rtri.or.jp/rd/maglev/html/english/maglev_frame_E.html it mentions the capacity of the maglev to carry over 40 tonnes, which is clost to the maximum weights of many of the OTTD wagons anyway
04:08	<stillunknown>	But only insane people transfer bulk goods by maglev.
04:08	<toresbe>	in-game as well? Why is this?
04:09	<Gekkko`>	stillunknown: you mocking me again?
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04:09	<Gekkko`>	My entire network is maglev.
04:09	<eekee>	no, only insane people deny facts of mag-lev capacity because "mag-lev is special" >:D
04:09	<Gekkko`>	ph
04:09	<Gekkko`>	oh*
04:09	<Gekkko`>	you're saying that it wouldnt hold that many goods
04:09	<Gekkko`>	because the magnets wouldnt hold the tonnes?
04:10	<stillunknown>	By bulk goods i mean coal, oil, etc.
04:11	<stillunknown>	Not the goods called goods.
04:11	<Gekkko`>	I come in half way through teh argument
04:11	<eekee>	well an open waggon is pretty stupid, yeah...
04:11	<Gekkko`>	you're saying that its insane because it's physically impossible/
04:11	<eekee>	oh eck, so did I
04:12	<stillunknown>	Just impractical.
04:12	<stillunknown>	Just like carrying coal with an airplane.
04:14	<eekee>	airplanes are much smaller capacity
04:15	<stillunknown>	But for maglev you'd have to put the coal into containers.
04:15	<stillunknown>	Or something like that, also coal benefits from >200 kph travel speeds.
04:15	<stillunknown>	*benefits little
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04:19	<eekee>	just need a lid on the existing containers
04:21	<eekee>	mew, I was wrong about the tonnage, in a way. Current maglev cars can weigh 40 tonnes empty, allowing (I think) 28 tonnes of capacity, but "experts are confidant that this will improve"
04:21	<eekee>	..in 10 years or so
04:22	<hylje>	:o
04:22	<hylje>	so first cargo maglevs should show up in 2020?
04:22	<eekee>	prolly lol
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04:27	<toresbe>	A
04:27	<toresbe>	oppsie
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04:30	<stillunknown>	Were can i find the DoCommand function?
04:30	<stillunknown>	(it doesn't seem to be in any header file)
04:31	<stillunknown>	Found it.
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04:42	<Wolf01>	hello
04:43	<SmatZ>	hello Wolf01
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04:55	<Thomas[NL]>	any progress on brickland?
04:56	<Wolf01>	no
04:57	<kaan>	hi Wolf
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05:10	<Chris82>	hi guys :)
05:11	<Chris82>	can somebody check the following savegame:
05:11	<Chris82>	http://openttd.sandra-bullock.co.uk/public/save/stability-test-crashing-r10387-Trunk.sav
05:11	<Chris82>	it keeps crashing after a little while, when you click windows it crashes quicker than when you do nothing
05:11	<Gekkko`>	memory leak?
05:11	<Gekkko`>	malloc() borked?
05:11	<Chris82>	I have no idea :p that's why I asked if somebody can check it out
05:12	<Chris82>	I have 37 billion in that game and world population is 14,6 mio so it's pretty massive
05:12	<Gekkko`>	well I wont.
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05:30	<SmatZ>	Chris82: I get SIGFPE , will test with debugging enabled
05:31	<Chris82>	k thx :)
05:34	<SmatZ>	Program received signal SIGFPE, Arithmetic exception.
05:34	<SmatZ>	[Switching to Thread 46971218706544 (LWP 6362)][Switching to Thread 46971218706544 (LWP 6362)]
05:34	<SmatZ>	0x000000000042d278 in CargoList::InvalidateCache (this=0x11e3438) at /mnt/svn/openttd/trunk/src/cargopacket.cpp:355
05:34	<SmatZ>	days_in_transit = dit / count;
05:34	<SmatZ>	^^^ there is the problem
05:35	<SmatZ>	dit = count = 0
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05:36	<@peter1138>	hmm, that shouldn't happen
05:38	<Chris82>	well it happens
05:38	<Chris82>	and the savegame is from Trunk r10387 without patches
05:39	<@peter1138>	clearly, but it shouldn't :)
05:39	<Chris82>	I first thought these late game crashes were caused by some patch in ChrisIN, but as this test has shown the problem occurs in Trunk games as well
05:43	<Chris82>	btw... shouldn't 0 / 0 work in some cases?
05:43	<SmatZ>	happens for station at xy=173859, x=803, y= 169
05:43	<Chris82>	I thought division by 0 is only illegal when you divide something != 0 by 0
05:43	<Chris82>	is that an AI station or one of my own?
05:43	<stillunknown>	Does the new hashmap store subtiles when on a 64x64 map?
05:44	<Prof_Frink>	Chris82: And what value should 0/0 give?
05:44	<Chris82>	0
05:44	<Prof_Frink>	lies
05:44	<SmatZ>	stillunknown: no
05:44	<SmatZ>	as far as i know :)
05:44	<stillunknown>	So updating the hashmap when entering a new tile should be ok?
05:44	<Chris82>	well that's what our math prof said :(
05:44	<Prof_Frink>	Well, he's wrong
05:44	<Prof_Frink>	0/0 is undefined
05:45	<Chris82>	gtk so division by 0 is an exception in every case
05:46	<SmatZ>	peter1138: count overflows 65535 -> 0
05:47	<SmatZ>	Drunningworth falls' passangers, there are too many
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05:47	<@peter1138>	stillunknown: no
05:47	<@peter1138>	65535? :o
05:47	<stillunknown>	no to what?
05:47	<@peter1138>	oh
05:47	<@peter1138>	to the first question :)
05:48	<@peter1138>	so yes to the second
05:48	<SmatZ>	peter1138: there are about 65532 passangers and then the game crashes, so most likely overflow and then division by 0
05:48	<@peter1138>	hmm, count is 32 bit
05:49	<Chris82>	OMG =O
05:49	<Chris82>	there are really that many passengers lol
05:49	<Chris82>	I thought there can't be more than 4095 at one station
05:49	<SmatZ>	uint16 count; ///< The amount of cargo in this packet
05:49	<SmatZ>	it is not
05:49	<@peter1138>	oh
05:50	<@peter1138>	the packet itself
05:50	<@peter1138>	hmm
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05:50	<@peter1138>	then either it needs to be uint32, or just split it into 2 packets. hmm.
05:51	<Chris82>	yeah that station is the problem I just had the station open and when it hit 65532 fatal application failure
05:54	<@peter1138>	cargopacket.cpp:231
05:54	<@peter1138>	- if ((*it)->SameSource(cp)) {
05:54	<@peter1138>	+ if ((it)->SameSource(cp) && (it)->count + cp->count <= 65535) {
05:54	<@peter1138>	i think
05:54	<@peter1138>	(mmm, magic numbers)
05:55	<SmatZ>	well, count+count will everytime <= 65535, I think
05:55	<SmatZ>	if they are uint16
05:55	<@peter1138>	should be promoted to int
05:55	<toresbe>	Hrm.
05:55	<@peter1138>	might need to force it i guess
05:56	[~]	toresbe has a problem with openttd (this time it's rail infrastructure ;)
05:56	<toresbe>	I have a problem with that there are too many trains pulling out of a very busy traffic artery.
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05:56	<SmatZ>	(it)->count + cp->count <= (it)->count would be enough :)
05:57	<SmatZ>	*>
05:57	<SmatZ>	>=, not <=
05:57	<SmatZ>	because sum of two numbers cannot be lower than any of them
05:57	<SmatZ>	but promoting them to int would be faster... so why not :)
05:59	<SmatZ>	peter1138: or you may limit the number of units in one packets to 32767
05:59	<@peter1138>	damn that game is slow :p
05:59	<SmatZ>	:D
06:01	<eekee>	toresbe: ehhh.. get inventive with junctions? That can be quite a puzzle ^_^'
06:03	<Chris82>	my save is slow? Yeah it runs with "normal speed" when I hit fw :D
06:03	<eekee>	lol
06:03	<Chris82>	i.e. I don't see a difference between fw and normal speed
06:03	<Zavior>	How is that
06:03	<Chris82>	I think I will put limit town growth in the next IN, these 100k cities don't make sense :D
06:04	<eekee>	wai not?
06:04	<stillunknown>	Chris82: You probably have a faster computer than peter1138.
06:04	<Chris82>	well you can never handle the amount of passengers/mail that city produces
06:04	<eekee>	hrm
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06:05	<Chris82>	and it's really hard to build any industry railways when the map is full of cities
06:05	<Chris82>	ah but I just remember I have set 1 in 1 towns become cities
06:05	<eekee>	I'm always wanting ttd to be harder
06:06	<Chris82>	what happens actually when I set this to 1 in 2 ? I mean what is defined as a town, and what a city
06:07	<@peter1138>	i'm guessing my pc doesn't like the 1,665 road vehicles
06:07	<eekee>	crap, ottd forces it's window size after the window manager tells the new window what to use. That means it's a pain with tiling window managers, and I'm making a new tiling WM which hasn't yet got a facility for forcing windows to size.
06:07	<eekee>	(might be an SDL thing)
06:08	<@peter1138>	yet another tiling wm? :)
06:08	<SmatZ>	peter1138: FindRoadVehToOvertake is still using the old hash table
06:08	<eekee>	peter1138: I only ever found one sane one, & that now has a wierd license (ion)
06:09	<@peter1138>	SmatZ: hmm, no it's not, but it is only 'scanning' one tile.
06:10	<eekee>	well, sane ~= intuitive, to me, plus I didn't like wmii's rotation of windows
06:11	<Chris82>	}; < does such a semicolon make sense in any situation?
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06:11	<@peter1138>	end of a struct/class
06:11	<SmatZ>	peter1138: you are right, it is not
06:13	<@peter1138>	hmm
06:13	<@peter1138>	looks like it 'manually' scans two tiles anyway
06:19	<stillunknown>	peter1138: That is needed, otherwise vehicles may stall behind another.
06:19	<stillunknown>	It was added at the same time the new hashmap was added.
06:20	<@peter1138>	hmm?
06:20	<stillunknown>	looks like it 'manually' scans two tiles anyway
06:20	<@peter1138>	r3510 is a little bit before the new hashmap
06:21	<stillunknown>	It is?
06:21	<stillunknown>	I remember making that change locally not so long ago.
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06:48	<Chris82>	if (ret.GetCost() == 0)
06:48	<Chris82>	return CMD_ERROR;
06:48	<Chris82>	is that obsolete?
06:48	<Chris82>	it is used for the Signal auto complete
06:49	<Chris82>	and I have a problem with it... when I have like 2000 money left and auto completion would cost 60k it also builds all signals and subtracts 60k
06:49	<Chris82>	although it should only build signals for max. 2k
06:51	<eekee>	shouldn't it refuse to build any signals & pop up one of those red boxes?
06:51	<Chris82>	well either that or build as many possible
06:51	<Chris82>	but it builds all and subtracts more money than I have as a result
06:51	<Chris82>	so the error checking if there's enough money is not working
06:53	<eekee>	if (ret.GetCost() == 0) <== that's your test line?
06:53	<Chris82>	I assume it is
06:54	<Chris82>	http://www.sandra-bullock.co.uk/openttd/rail_cmd.txt
06:54	<Chris82>	in this part of code the error must be
06:55	<eekee>	I would have thought it should be: if (ret.GetCost() < 0)
06:57	<Chris82>	uhm < sounds more logical yeah I'll test it :D
06:57	<Gekko[PDA]>	<=
06:58	<eekee>	Oh wait
06:58	<eekee>	that's the cost, not the cast there would be after the operation
06:59	<eekee>	might be correct to leave that alone and add some code to check if the player can afford it
07:00	<Chris82>	changing it from == to < didn't change anything at all anyway
07:00	<Chris82>	strange
07:01	<Gekko[PDA]>	lol.
07:01	<eekee>	not so strange. Cloning trains was implemented without any check for cash available, at first
07:02	<Gekko[PDA]>	hacks.
07:02	<eekee>	I think the if (ret.GetCost() == 0)
07:03	<Thomas[NL]>	what happened to http://dev.openttd.org/~belugas/Industries/ :( ?
07:03	<eekee>	er, I think that line is there for when there isn't enough length for any more signals
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07:04	<eekee>	heheh, oh dear
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07:19	<@peter1138>	Druningworth Falls: 65,550 passengers
07:19	<@peter1138>	hmm
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07:20	<WuZuul>	Anyone else had any problems with bridges with the latest ottd?
07:20	<Chris82>	peter1138: Did you fix it? :D
07:20	<@peter1138>	seems like it
07:20	<Chris82>	cool
07:20	<Chris82>	WuZuul: Except for many clipping errors no.
07:20	<@peter1138>	though it's clearly a bug that it has so many passengers
07:21	<WuZuul>	Chris82, when I build a bridge over water, the trains wont go over it.. They jsut turn around like there wouldn't be any track
07:21	<Chris82>	Yeah I thought so too, I was thinking there is a fix limit at 4095
07:21	<@peter1138>	that was removed
07:21	<WuZuul>	And if I builda a bridge accross another railway, the trais still crash :D
07:21	<@peter1138>	but those stations have a rating of around 30%
07:21	<WuZuul>	trains even..
07:21	<Chris82>	electriefied trains and the bridge is normal rail?
07:21	<WuZuul>	Steam trains and any bridge
07:22	<@peter1138>	0.5.3RC1 is broken, yes
07:22	<WuZuul>	Thought something like that
07:22	<WuZuul>	So guess I will revert to the older one then
07:22	<@peter1138>	yup
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07:24	<Chris82>	what might cause this bug that there are so many passengers?
07:24	<Chris82>	I obviously had it in a few games already, because this is not the first game crashing this way
07:24	<Chris82>	maybe a bug specific to AI stations?
07:25	<@peter1138>	possible, they do get strange bonuses...
07:25	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: peter1138 * r10404 /trunk/src/cargopacket.cpp: -Fix (r10266): Adding a cargo packet to cargo list could overflow. Now we detect this and just leave the cargo in its own packet.
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07:26	<@peter1138>	hmm, my rubadub is ginormous
07:27	<Chris82>	errrrm there is a bad bug in r10403/4
07:27	<Chris82>	I can't build erail
07:28	<Chris82>	it's disabled in the GUI
07:28	<Chris82>	no matter if I enable/disable it in patch options
07:28	<@peter1138>	works for me
07:29	<Chris82>	uhm when can you build erail?
07:29	<Chris82>	oh lol I had DB Set XL disabled :D
07:29	<@peter1138>	when erail engines are available
07:29	<Chris82>	I am not used to no erail available in 1950 lol
07:30	<Gekko[PDA]>	arctic has no erail
07:32	<Chris82>	:'( grrr I don't get this auto signal bug fixed
07:32	<Chris82>	it's obviously more complicated than fixing diagonal levelling
07:33	<Gekko[PDA]>	make it find banko - cost
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07:33	<Gekko[PDA]>	if < 0 than error
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07:36	<stillunknown>	peter1138: Do you have any idea why some savegames do trigger CheckSaveameVersion() and why some don't?
07:36	<+glx>	because they don't have the same version
07:37	<stillunknown>	I just added a new version, 70, so no existing savegame should have that?
07:38	<@peter1138>	mmm, fresh spring onions
07:38	<@peter1138>	stron g
07:39	<Gekko[PDA]>	freak lol
07:39	<@peter1138>	what?
07:39	<Gekko[PDA]>	put the,m in a dip
07:39	<Gekko[PDA]>	now.
07:39	<Gekko[PDA]>	:o
07:39	<@peter1138>	too late, gone :D
07:39	<Gekko[PDA]>	noooooo
07:40	<@peter1138>	lovely yummy spring onions
07:40	<Gekko[PDA]>	lol chives
07:40	<Gekko[PDA]>	i eat white onion like an apple
07:41	<Gekko[PDA]>	tried to eat a clove of garlic once
07:41	<@peter1138>	fresh garlic is nice but a little bit too strong
07:41	<Gekko[PDA]>	i was licking the roof of bmy mouth for 6 hours
07:48	<stillunknown>	peter1138: any idea what in savegame version 42 could cause the function to return?
07:48	<stillunknown>	(with opntitle.dat)
07:50	<stillunknown>	function = AfterLoadGame()
07:50	<stillunknown>	Since i see not returns.
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07:52	<Chris82>	what is the variable for the money that's available to me?
07:52	<+glx>	p->money ?
07:52	<Chris82>	thx
07:54	<+glx>	GetPlayer(_local_player)->player_ money or GetPlayer(_current_player)->player_money
07:57	<stillunknown>	I found it myself, my problem.
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08:00	<@peter1138>	heh
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08:00	<Gekko[PDA]>	obviously they can.
08:00	<Gekko[PDA]>	irssi would have to get 10k a week.
08:01	<hylje>	most of the irssi downloads are downstream
08:01	<hylje>	distributor packages
08:02	<Gekko[PDA]>	still 10k a week
08:04	[~]	eekee wonders what xchat & pidgin (formerly gaim) get
08:04	<Gekko[PDA]>	xchat sucks
08:05	<Gekko[PDA]>	pidgin rules
08:05	<eekee>	heheh
08:05	<eekee>	my friend swears by xchat, but I've tried it &.. meh.
08:06	<eekee>	I've been using gaim, but it's teh freakahzoidal with a barebones window manager and I'm currently making a window manager, so it's back to irssi
08:06	<hylje>	is that bad?
08:09	<eekee>	hylje: if you're using a bare-bones window manager, yeah
08:10	<eekee>	actually most gtk apps seem to be dumping their transient windows in odd places with my wm, so I guess I'll have to fix something there. Probably need to be more evil about controling the windows
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08:30	<stillunknown>	peter1138: are you around for a question (no bugs or anything like that ;-) )?
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09:51	<UnderBuilder>	I was playing on a server when a player named jasperwillem entered
09:51	<UnderBuilder>	fortunately it is other jasper as it seems, because he is building railways
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09:57	<UnderBuilder>	also a suggestion: is inside the plans of economy balancing adding mantenaince costs to purchased land?
09:57	<UnderBuilder>	suggestion->question
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10:21	<kaan>	UnderBuilder: look in the pdf for that, its all there
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10:54	<prottt>	hi
10:54	<prottt>	i have a little problem with bridges
10:55	<prottt>	the trains fall through them
10:56	<hylje>	:o
10:56	<hylje>	we have a physics engine?
10:56	<prottt>	so i cant make bridges over water and on land it must have railway under it
10:56	<prottt>	i added some newgrf stuff
10:57	<prottt>	but when i remove them then its not helping
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10:59	<prottt>	any suggestions ?
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10:59	<colle>	known problem in 0.5.3-rc1 I think
10:59	<prottt>	ouh okey
10:59	<colle>	read something about it in the forums
10:59	<prottt>	ty
11:00	<colle>	http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=32799
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11:02	<kaan>	I updated the autoslopes patch http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=603183#603183
11:11	<@peter1138>	http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c186/jonf45/P10105132.jpg
11:11	<@peter1138>	^ struck by 0.5.3-rc1
11:11	<kaan>	hehe
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11:13	<kaan>	I was wondering if it is wasted work i did on autoslopes
11:13	<kaan>	will it get considered for trunk if whipped into shape?
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11:39	<Kosma>	a quick question: is it possible to use multiplayer without UDP?
11:39	<hylje>	you need udp to detect servers
11:39	<hylje>	if you add servers manually, you might not need it
11:39	<hylje>	im not sure
11:39	<caladan>	well, i tried
11:39	<caladan>	it just says the server is offline
11:40	<caladan>	so maybe there's some workaround...
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11:48	<@peter1138>	try "connect ip" from the console
11:49	<Kosma>	network game connection lost
11:53	<caladan>	hmm, it seems to work
11:53	<caladan>	i already given up and shut down server, but now it works with connect
11:55	<caladan>	peter1138: thx :-)
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12:11	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: rubidium * r10405 /trunk/src/rail_gui.cpp: -Fix [FS#972]: do not try to determine the default railtype in the scenario editor.
12:13	<kaan>	so noone can answer my question above?
12:17	<hylje>	i think if you bring the patch to coding standards and poke the devs enough
12:17	<hylje>	youll get it
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12:18	<Rubidium>	the real question is whether the design of that autoslope patch is/was sound
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12:19	<Rubidium>	I haven't looked thoroughly at the patch at all
12:20	<kaan>	ok, thanks for the answer :)
12:21	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: rubidium * r10406 /trunk/src/ (industry.h industry_cmd.cpp): -Fix [FS#968]: only industries in the temperate climate should be affected by the "do not increase production" flag.
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13:09	<toresbe>	OK, SVN's stopped crashing. :)
13:09	<toresbe>	Wow. the SVN version is even more awesome.
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13:13	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: miham * r10407 /trunk/src/lang/ (7 files): (log message trimmed)
13:13	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-07-01 20:12:34
13:13	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 2 fixed by tucalipe (2)
13:13	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: catalan - 2 fixed by arnaullv (2)
13:13	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: hungarian - 2 fixed by miham (2)
13:13	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: italian - 1 changed by lorenzodv (1)
13:13	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: japanese - 4 fixed by ickoonite (4)
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13:52	<Wolf01>	-Fix (r10266): Adding a cargo packet to cargo list could overflow. Now we detect this and just leave the cargo in its own packet.
13:52	<Wolf01>	which mean?
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13:53	<+glx>	you get 2 packets if it overflows
13:53	<Rubidium>	that coalescencing algorithm doesn't merge two cargopackets when they would overflow the "count" variable in the cargo packet
13:54	<Wolf01>	thanks glx :) (sorry Rubidium, too complex yours :P)
13:55	<Rubidium>	I'm trying to increase your vocabulary ;)
13:55	<Wolf01>	yeah i really need it :D
13:56	<Wolf01>	i think coale..whatisit mean really old, isn't it?
13:56	<Rubidium>	http://m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=coalescence
13:57	<Rubidium>	and especially 2a
13:58	<Wolf01>	aaah, i read coal and i associated with coal age :P
14:01	<Wolf01>	back to work, i made a new preview of my brickland tiles, now i have 3 of 4 stages of the bulldozed land
14:04	<@peter1138>	heh
14:05	<@peter1138>	Rubidium: it was either that or make the count uint32
14:05	<@peter1138>	which seemed silly to me
14:12	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: rubidium * r10408 /trunk/src/ (16 files): -Codechange: make GetImage a class method of Vehicle instead of Get(Aircraft\|RoadVeh\|Ship\|Train)Image.
14:14	[~]	stillunknown smells local copy conflicts coming soon
14:14	<Rubidium>	with a little luck it will merge nicely
14:15	<stillunknown>	I've overhauled a lot of the vehicle handling stuff, so i will have to do some stuff manually i think.
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14:25	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: rubidium * r10409 /trunk/src/ (11 files): -Codechange: replace (Aircraft\|RoadVeh\|Ship\|Train)_Tick with a Tick method in the Vehicle class.
14:25	<stillunknown>	:-(
14:25	<stillunknown>	Is it possible to skip a revision altogether, aka reverse patch it?
14:26	<Sacro\|Laptop>	stillunknown: what do you mean?
14:28	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	patch -r?
14:28	<stillunknown>	I have a class based vehicle tick implemented in my local copy.
14:28	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	or -R?
14:28	<stillunknown>	I have no use for another one.
14:29	<stillunknown>	Does svn have a facility for this, since that would be preferred.
14:31	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	svn diff > tmpfile && svn revert -r . && svn up && svn diff -r HEAD:PREV > tmpfile2 && patch -p0 < tmpfile2 && patch -p0 < tmpfile
14:31	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	you might have to switch HEAD and PREV
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14:33	<@peter1138>	or just work your patch around trunk :p
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14:34	<stillunknown>	peter1138: not very usefull, since my level of integration is much greater
14:35	<stillunknown>	This looks like one of my first steps.
14:36	<stillunknown>	I'm currently performance optimizing my train controller.
14:36	<stillunknown>	So nobody write a new train controller ;-)
14:36	[~]	Smoovious starts working on his controller as ordered
14:37	<stillunknown>	Not that happens often, since it's not easy.
14:37	<@peter1138>	i've probably got several uncommitted controllers, knowing me
14:38	<stillunknown>	I'm having decent results.
14:39	<stillunknown>	*I'm getting
14:39	<stillunknown>	Although they vary, on some games i can get a cpu reduction of 50%.
14:39	<@peter1138>	interesting
14:39	<stillunknown>	But i have this game called the SML testcase, which has 1000 maglev trains.
14:39	<stillunknown>	And i only recently managed to shave a few perfect of that.
14:40	<@peter1138>	i now have a test game with 440 trains
14:40	<@peter1138>	and 1550 road vehicles
14:41	<stillunknown>	Although to remove a bottleneck i did have to cache some data.
14:41	<mikk36>	lol
14:41	<mikk36>	http://bash.org/?777977
14:42	<stillunknown>	In the map, so at the end, we'll have to have a long talk about what and how to do.
14:42	<stillunknown>	Because the patch is huge (>100 KiB)
14:42	<stillunknown>	But i'm not done optimizing just yet.
14:44	<@peter1138>	yeah, my bridges-over-diagonal-rail patch was huge
14:45	<Smoovious>	mikk36: hahaha... that's just perfect. :D
14:45	<mikk36>	;)
14:46	<@peter1138>	wtf, kids do that?
14:46	<mikk36>	i dno,haven't noticed here
14:47	<Smoovious>	people's kids are pretty huge monsters, with parents deluded with the 'not MY kid' syndrome which lets them get away with everything, and they aren't going to do shit about it...
14:47	<Smoovious>	serves her right...
14:47	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	must be american kids...
14:48	<mikk36>	yeah
14:48	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	or with "alternative" upbringing methods
14:48	<Smoovious>	what's she gonna say... he forced his leg into her kids mouth and made the kid bite down?!
14:48	<mikk36>	:P
14:49	<Smoovious>	the 'alternative' methods are actually better... at least there is a method... these problem kids are raised with the 'I don't give a fuck' method
14:49	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	honestly, i have never seen that kind of kids
14:50	<Smoovious>	yeah, well, unfortunately, the way things are going to make corporal punishment akin to child abuse, it is only gonna get worse
14:51	<Smoovious>	a kid is out of control, and her mother puts the kid over her lap and spanks him there on the spot, and the next thing she knows, she's spending a couple years defending herself t hrough t he c ourts for child abuse allegations and child services gets involved and everything else
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14:51	<Smoovious>	they've SOOO lost touch with reason
14:51	<@peter1138>	hmm
14:51	<@peter1138>	oh yes, smacking is now taboo isn't it?
14:51	[~]	Smoovious rolls h is eyes.
14:52	<Smoovious>	hey, when I was in school, I got paddled by the principal a few times... which I deserved... didn't scar me for life...
14:52	<mikk36>	paddled by the principal o.O
14:53	<Smoovious>	but in the past generation, it seems people's backbones has been weeded out of the genetic pool...
14:53	<Smoovious>	remember that story in the news about this one teen who was going to get caned in a different country?
14:54	<Smoovious>	like... hell, he could have gone to jail... he could h ave got a h arsher punishment, but all he was gonna get was a caning and be done with it right then and there... but no... it got dragged out and dragged out and dragged out as t he parents thought it to be too harsh
14:55	<Smoovious>	maybe if they had given their kid a spanking or two growing up, the kid wouldn't have been caned then
14:55	[~]	Smoovious rolls his eyes.
14:55	[~]	toresbe rolls his eyes at Smoovious' cluelessness
14:55	<stillunknown>	What's caning?
14:56	<toresbe>	stillunknown: they beat you with a cane.
14:56	<toresbe>	The Singaporean style leaves you with fairly obvious scars.
14:56	<Smoovious>	being smacked on the ass with a cane... same as paddling, but with a cane
14:56	<Smoovious>	that's too bad
14:57	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	what's a cane?
14:58	<stillunknown>	A walking stick.
14:58	<Smoovious>	a type of stick
14:58	<Prof_Frink>	I dunno, kids these days
14:58	<Smoovious>	generally, thinner than a walking cane, for punishment purposes
14:58	<toresbe>	If you're going to stray off topic, can you please not be this militantly clueless?
14:59	<mikk36>	i haven't got beaten with a cane
14:59	<mikk36>	rather with a belt
14:59	<Smoovious>	the whole point of punishment is to have a consequence the kid doesn't want to get... and a 'time out' just doesn't cut it
14:59	<Smoovious>	nothing militant about it
14:59	<mikk36>	yup
14:59	<Smoovious>	and I'd say you're the clueless
14:59	<toresbe>	no, the point of punishment is to prevent the kid from doing it again
14:59	<Smoovious>	have you ever even caned someone? I have...
15:00	<mikk36>	toresbe, the point is to make the kid scared of getting punished
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15:00	<toresbe>	Smoovious: Not like the Singaporean do it. It is after all a rather serious punishment there, that should tell you something.
15:00	<toresbe>	mikk36: No, it isn't.
15:00	<mikk36>	so that he drops the idea of making stupid things
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15:00	<toresbe>	ah, christ. I can't deal with this kind of cluelessness.
15:00	<Smoovious>	mikk36... I've had the hand-spank, paddles, belts... and I deserved every one of em
15:01	<mikk36>	i've had them too
15:01	<mikk36>	also deserved them
15:01	<Smoovious>	toresbe... if the point of punishment isn't to have someone be scared of being punished, then you tell us... what is the point?
15:01	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	you should not have that kind of discussion here...
15:01	[~]	Smoovious shrugs.
15:02	<mikk36>	Eddi\|zuHause3, because there are kids here ? :)
15:02	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	no, because it is off topic
15:02	<mikk36>	this is the current topic :P
15:02	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	and you are going nowhere
15:02	<mikk36>	it's a side-topic :)
15:03	<mikk36>	to relax our minds from openttd :P
15:03	<Smoovious>	give us an ottd topic, and we'll be happy to immediately switch back
15:03	<toresbe>	Smoovious: The fear of punishment works very poorly as an incentive not to do stupid things.
15:03	<mikk36>	well, it worked for me
15:03	<Smoovious>	toresbe... now who's clueless... .. .
15:03	<Sacro>	me!
15:03	<Smoovious>	where do you think that 'fear' comes from... a 'time-out'?!
15:03	<toresbe>	Smoovious: I can back this up with statistics. Can you?
15:04	<mikk36>	toresbe, what is the reason for not robbing the bank for you ?
15:04	<toresbe>	mikk36: Because I have a sense of decency.
15:04	<Smoovious>	oh yeah... statistics...
15:04	<Smoovious>	reason trumps statistics any day
15:04	<mikk36>	and what makes robbing a bank a not decent action ?
15:04	<mikk36>	for you
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15:05	<toresbe>	Smoovious: Congratulations, you've just invoked reason and discarded it in the same sentence.
15:05	<toresbe>	mikk36: the fact that the money doesn't belong to me.
15:05	<Smoovious>	statistics != reason
15:05	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	toresbe: so it wo