TheGrebs.com:IRC Logs:#openttd:2007:06:29

---	Log	opened Fri Jun 29 00:00:50 2007
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02:26	<Smoovious>	do I need a newgrf to have trams in trunk, or are there some that are default?
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02:28	<Rubidium>	yes, no
02:28	<hylje>	thou need a newgrf
02:31	[~]	Smoovious nod.
02:31	<Smoovious>	thany
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02:32	<dihedral>	morning ladies :-)
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03:18	<Luukland>	Heya, Is there a max. number of industries set in OTTD?
03:18	<Luukland>	or can i add as many i like in my scenario?
03:19	<@peter1138>	no. yes.
03:19	<Luukland>	:)
03:20	<Luukland>	also no max. number of towns? ^^
03:20	<Rubidium>	peter1138: lies... there is a maximum number of towns and industries
03:20	<Luukland>	Whahaha :P
03:20	<Rubidium>	for example towns can't be closer than 10 tiles or so from eachother
03:20	<Rubidium>	on a map of 2048x2048 this limits the number of towns to 4096 ;)
03:21	<Luukland>	:P
03:21	<Rubidium>	and for industries
03:21	<Luukland>	yeah?
03:22	<Rubidium>	if you've got the multiple industries per town not enabled it's something like 44000 (11 industries per town)
03:22	<Luukland>	ok
03:22	<Rubidium>	or 65535 because the variable that holds the index doesn't hold more
03:22	<Rubidium>	so yes, there is a maximum
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03:22	<Luukland>	well that should be enough to add a lot into my scenario
03:22	<Rubidium>	but I guess you won't reach that maximum
03:23	<Luukland>	hmmm
03:23	<Luukland>	maybe :)
03:23	<Luukland>	Working on 2056 x 2056 -> UK + Ireland + Calais :)
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03:24	<Rubidium>	odd map size ;)
03:24	<Luukland>	i know it is sick :)
03:25	<Luukland>	But you can build everything from your dreams in England :P
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03:25	<Luukland>	Gigantic Railwaynetworks, from Thurso to Calais (north-south)
03:26	[~]	Rubidium thinks Luukland didn't get it ;)
03:26	<Phazorx>	gigantic wont be realistic probably
03:26	<Luukland>	Phazorx maybe
03:26	<Phazorx>	Rubidium: only programmers know at least 16 powers of 2 by heart :)
03:26	<Rubidium>	ofcourse, as long as you flood large parts of it ;)
03:27	<Luukland>	Rubidium i guess 50% is flooded (not very usefull)
03:27	<Rubidium>	Phazorx: but everyone playing large maps should now it is 2048x2048
03:27	<Smoovious>	well, I suppose you could hit t he max industries, with multiple-per-town enabled, and the theorhetical maxiimum of 4096 towns...
03:28	<Smoovious>	laying track would be a problem after a whilie tho
03:28	<Phazorx>	Rubidium: does map size itself directly defines server load?
03:29	<Phazorx>	ot it is indureies, towns and result of player activity only?
03:29	<Smoovious>	yes, yes, yes, and yes
03:30	<Phazorx>	that was "or" question
03:31	<Luukland>	:P
03:31	<Smoovious>	oh... in that case...
03:31	<Smoovious>	ERR: Invalid Input
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03:32	[~]	Phazorx thinks Smoovious is being femaleish
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03:33	<@peter1138>	Phazorx: "is it hot or cold?" "yes"
03:33	<@peter1138>	perfectly valid answer
03:33	[~]	Smoovious thinks Phazorx incorrectly assumes that is actually insulting to Smoovious
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03:34	<Phazorx>	in human conversation answer is something that provides information rather than validates the input peter1138 :)
03:34	<Phazorx>	Smoovious: that was just statement based on behavioral similarities :)
03:34	<Smoovious>	it did provide information
03:35	<Chris82>	peter, or any other dev, do you have some suggestions for me what I can change with daypatch to get it eventually in trunk :D ?
03:35	<Smoovious>	the question itself was invalid... it assumes XOR which didn't apply.
03:35	<Chris82>	I've rewritten the whole patch to make it work with an inline function already which should've have helped at least a little
03:36	<Smoovious>	er... logical OR... not XOR
03:36	<Phazorx>	it assumed or
03:36	<Phazorx>	however that's all spemantics... i wonder what exactly does server do with the map then
03:36	<Luukland>	......... >_<
03:37	<Luukland>	Who started this silly discussion?!
03:37	<Luukland>	Pfff... Don't you have better things to do :P
03:37	[~]	Smoovious points to Phazorx
03:37	<@peter1138>	bitwise operators are great; 1 or 2 equals 3. 1 and 2 equals 0.
03:38	<@peter1138>	Phazorx: grow trees, change farm fields, flood water...
03:38	<dihedral>	Chris82: how did it work out yesterday - you got my email?
03:38	<@peter1138>	every tile is periodically updated. more tiles, more updates.
03:39	<Phazorx>	trees and flood does apply... i was kinda hoping that animation is client side only
03:39	<Smoovious>	everything calculated on one side, is identically calculated everywhere else
03:39	<Phazorx>	peter1138: so in order to grow trees - all map is analyzed rather than something added randomly?
03:39	<@peter1138>	nope, everything has to be synchronised
03:39	<Smoovious>	or... DESYNC
03:40	<Smoovious>	it is added randomly
03:40	<Smoovious>	all computers would add it randomly together
03:40	<Phazorx>	peter1138: i dont see muhc point in sinchronizing tidal tiles or state of any particular field, or lights sequence of thaetre animation
03:41	<@peter1138>	well palette animation isn't synchroized
03:41	<@peter1138>	even with an n
03:41	<Phazorx>	but farms tiles actuly have differen type?
03:42	<@peter1138>	yes, of course.
03:42	<Smoovious>	yes
03:42	<Phazorx>	i had hoped that it is jst client animatioon... sound very useless for server
03:42	<Phazorx>	kinda representational matter only
03:42	<Smoovious>	but then again, you have no idea how i t works
03:42	<Smoovious>	no, it isn't
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03:42	<Phazorx>	what difference does it make for the server?
03:43	<Phazorx>	peter1138: how does tree growing works?
03:43	<Smoovious>	the different stages of farmland are different sprites... different type of land...
03:44	<Phazorx>	Smoovious: that is representation which is only visualy visible as different element rendederd on client side, has no influence on game logic of the server
03:44	<Smoovious>	if it isn't identical on the server and client, the map desyncs because they're different... they need to be i denticaal as different swatches of farmland are periodically placed around the farm... and farmland costs more to clear
03:44	<Smoovious>	no, it isn't
03:44	<Smoovious>	Phazorx... you know what a random seed is, right?
03:45	<Phazorx>	is the cost of clearing farm tile type 1 is different from farm tile 2 ?
03:45	<Phazorx>	Smoovious: i know how randomization works within ottd
03:45	<Phazorx>	my point is - in this particular case it is not necesasry to cunch that information
03:45	<Smoovious>	sure about that?
03:45	<Smoovious>	yes, it is
03:45	<Phazorx>	whether it does it now or not that is different
03:46	<Phazorx>	Smoovious: please, explain why server should care if it is grteen field or brown?
03:46	<Smoovious>	as I just said... they're d ifferent sprites, with different land identifications... that isn't palette animation... it is changing one kind of tile, to another...
03:46	<@peter1138>	trees are important :)
03:46	<Smoovious>	I did... twice
03:46	<@peter1138>	they have to be synchronised
03:46	<Phazorx>	Smoovious: you are only stating how it is now, not explaining why is it needed
03:46	<Phazorx>	peter1138: trees are, indeed
03:47	<Phazorx>	but not farms
03:47	<Smoovious>	everything the client does, the server and other clients also have to do, at t he same moment
03:47	<Smoovious>	yes, we are
03:47	<Smoovious>	you're just not listening
03:47	<@peter1138>	and how much processing time would you save by skipping field updates?
03:47	<@peter1138>	i'd say none
03:47	<Phazorx>	Smoovious: why does server not syncronizing screen sizes of all client, or which windows are opened
03:47	<@peter1138>	well, not none, but negligable
03:47	<Phazorx>	or location of map view point?
03:47	<Smoovious>	quite a bit, s ince the clients would desync quite often
03:48	<Smoovious>	cuz the screen sizes have nothing to do with game play or the state of the map
03:48	<Phazorx>	peter1138: on 4096x4096 it could be quite a bit
03:48	<@peter1138>	4096x4096 isn't possible
03:48	<Phazorx>	peter1138: that wasnt my point
03:48	[~]	dihedral slaps Chris82
03:48	<Phazorx>	read big map
03:49	<@peter1138>	you should profile it.
03:49	<@peter1138>	updating a farm field is a tiny amount of work
03:49	<Phazorx>	Smoovious: type of particular farm tile has nothign to do with gameplay either
03:49	<Rubidium>	no, but whether a tile is "brown" or "green" or a "farm" tile does
03:49	<Phazorx>	peter1138: it is nothign compared to yapf, indeed but perhaps there are other things liek that
03:49	<Smoovious>	the different farm tiles, are different sprites... as I already said now, three times...
03:50	<Phazorx>	sprites matter only for rendedr Smoovious, which server lacks
03:50	<Smoovious>	they have different tile #'s... when h ashed, the map hashes, would be different from client to server...
03:50	<Smoovious>	which desync's...
03:50	<Rubidium>	oh, the state of the farm tiles matters too
03:50	<Smoovious>	no, they don't
03:50	<blathijs>	Smoovious: What would be the gain of not synchronizing farm land types?
03:50	<Phazorx>	Smoovious: you seem to miss my poiont.. i know how it is now... but it makes very little sense to me
03:50	<Smoovious>	blathijs pardon?!
03:50	<Phazorx>	Rubidium: how
03:50	<Rubidium>	because they get removed when the farm stops producing, but only after it is "fully" grown
03:51	<blathijs>	Smoovious: Why would we want to not synchronize it?
03:51	<Smoovious>	I get your point, Phazorx... you just won't listen to why peter1138 and I are telling you, your point is flawed
03:51	<Rubidium>	and if the server didn't do it, it would get different cost for destroying the tile -> boom
03:51	<Phazorx>	Rubidium: really ?
03:51	<Smoovious>	blathijs... pardon?
03:51	<Phazorx>	and rest just keeps fruiting till then?
03:51	<Smoovious>	blathijs... please scroll back and catch up with the convo
03:51	<Phazorx>	Smoovious: untill Rubidium meantying this peter1138 was in agreemenet with me
03:51	<Phazorx>	*mentioned
03:52	<Smoovious>	Phazorx... you and I must have very different i deas of 'in agreement'
03:52	<Phazorx>	perhaps you are still stuck at synchronization matter rather than moved on to question why is it necesary to do it in this partiular case :)
03:52	<stillunknown>	uint8 cached_veh_length; // length of this vehicle in units of 1/8 of normal length, cached because this can be set by a callback
03:53	<blathijs>	Smoovious: So, only to reduce the load on a dedicated server?
03:53	<stillunknown>	Is this actually correct, it's more like normal units.
03:53	<Phazorx>	Rubidium: i guess it adds to eyecandy
03:53	<Smoovious>	and we've told you 3 times now why it i s necessary
03:53	<Rubidium>	and the whole palette animation is done client side if enabled, all other animation isn't
03:53	<@peter1138>	stillunknown: 1/8th of a train length happens to be 1 normal unit
03:53	<Smoovious>	but farm tiles, are not done by palette animation
03:53	<Smoovious>	they're different sprites
03:54	<Phazorx>	Rubidium: i was just thinking of clear separatio between gamelogic relevant and rendeder relevant parts
03:54	<Rubidium>	the farm fields are part of the game logic
03:54	[~]	Smoovious nods.
03:54	<Rubidium>	because they cost more to destroy
03:54	<Smoovious>	which I already mentioned
03:55	<Phazorx>	Rubidium: i see that now, i didnt know that there are conditional removal of particular type only at farm death
03:55	<stillunknown>	peter1138: Is it possible that cached_veh_length is not always correct?
03:55	<Phazorx>	Rubidium: that wasnt my point, difference between farm tile types was
03:55	<Smoovious>	they're different sprites... different land ID's...
03:55	<@peter1138>	stillunknown: under what circumstances?
03:56	<Smoovious>	if t hey aren't i dentical between server and all clients, they desync
03:56	<Rubidium>	Smoovious: the fact that they are different sprites has NOTHING to do with the fact that it affects the game logic
03:56	<Smoovious>	and has nothing to do witht hashing the map?
03:56	<Phazorx>	back to trees... i was wondering how tree growing wroks... as peter said it is proportional to map size... is it analysing every tile or picks them randomly?
03:56	<stillunknown>	peter1138: always
03:56	<stillunknown>	peter1138: when a train is moving
03:56	<@peter1138>	stillunknown: you're saying it's not always correct always?
03:57	<@peter1138>	what value have you got, and what did you expect?
03:57	<Rubidium>	Phazorx: it's done in the tile loop stuff; clear tiles randomly place trees, whereas tree tiles randomly upgrade/downgrade trees
03:57	<@peter1138>	Smoovious: what is this "hashing the map" you talk of?
03:58	<stillunknown>	Let me put this way, all the cars align perfectly(various size cars), except the tender is sticking half way in the train, which suggests a newgrf error (hopefully).
03:58	<Smoovious>	peter1138... like... for the hashes that are compared to check for desync's? I seem to remember that was an issue in 0.4.8
03:58	<@peter1138>	most likely
03:58	<Phazorx>	Rubidium: i mean is it based on analyzyz of all tiles or engine randonmly picks some to update?
03:58	<Rubidium>	hashes used for desync? that's new for me
03:58	<@peter1138>	Smoovious: random seeds are checked, there is no hash checking
03:59	<Rubidium>	Phazorx: it iterates over all tiles and then randomly places a tree
03:59	<Phazorx>	Rubidium: ocuh :)
03:59	<Smoovious>	then I misunderstood the convo about it back then... and stand corrected
04:00	<@peter1138>	Phazorx: you need to understand how the tileloop process works :)
04:00	<Phazorx>	peter1138: perhaps... but in grame scale of things that can be omitted
04:00	<@peter1138>	iterates over all tiles does not mean every tile every tick
04:00	<Phazorx>	peter1138: what does it mean then ?
04:01	<@peter1138>	it means what it say
04:01	<@peter1138>	+s
04:01	<Rubidium>	that every tile gets a tileloop tick every X game ticks
04:01	<Rubidium>	and not all tiles get that tick at the same time
04:01	<stillunknown>	I wonder how anyone ever programmed ttd.
04:01	<blathijs>	We could probably refrain from synchronizing different farm types and other presentation-only aspects, but since we're only comparing random seeds it won't cost anything to do it, and it would require some way to clearly distinguish between things that are and are not synchronized
04:02	<Rubidium>	blathijs: farm types aren't presentation only
04:02	<blathijs>	then we couldn't :-)
04:02	<@peter1138>	stillunknown: chris sawyer clearly has armies of gnomes
04:02	<blathijs>	Rubidium: Or we could make them presentation only :-p
04:02	<Rubidium>	when you delete a farm, all farm tiles continue to grow except the one that "restarts" the farm growth (that one removes the farm tile)
04:05	<@peter1138>	anyway
04:05	<@peter1138>	handlelocomotivesmokecloud ;)
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04:08	[~]	dihedral slaps Chris82 with a fish
04:08	<dihedral>	this is fun :-P
04:10	<stillunknown>	I know understand what bitch custom bridge heads must have been.
04:10	<stillunknown>	*I now
04:10	<stillunknown>	*what a bitch
04:10	[~]	Chris82 slaps dihedral around a bit with a large trout
04:10	<Chris82>	:p
04:11	<Chris82>	hmmm inflation seems a bit insane in long games
04:11	[~]	dihedral dunks Chris82 in fish&chip batter
04:11	<Chris82>	I have a test game running which is at 2113 right now
04:11	<Chris82>	and a Lev 4 Chimera costs 209 million :D lol
04:11	<dihedral>	lol
04:11	<@peter1138>	cool
04:12	<Chris82>	whoa :o
04:12	<Chris82>	building a coal mine costs 9,2 billion lmfao
04:12	<@peter1138>	inflation works then
04:12	<@peter1138>	although i thought it was supposed to stop
04:12	<Chris82>	well I can't say I have too much money :D I only have 2,2 billion but I also only have like 40 road vehicles
04:12	<Chris82>	the game is very unstable though
04:13	<dihedral>	lol
04:13	<Chris82>	world population is 6,7 million and there are around 3000 vehicles in the game (waggons not counted)
04:13	<Chris82>	the game crashes every few minutes
04:13	<dihedral>	Chris82: how did you get along yesterday evening?
04:13	<Chris82>	I just unpacked your stuff and try it now :)
04:13	<dihedral>	ah
04:13	[~]	dihedral is curious :-)
04:13	<Chris82>	hehe
04:14	[~]	dihedral slaps Chris82 just for the fun of it
04:14	<Chris82>	I was actually testing longtime stability of the game with this ultra long game
04:14	<dihedral>	nice idea :-)
04:14	<Chris82>	the largest city is almost 100k :D lol
04:14	<Chris82>	but I said the game has become pretty unstable since around 2110
04:14	<Chris82>	but as*
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04:16	<@peter1138>	Chris82: got a save? :p
04:16	<Chris82>	but inflation is really crazy, is it a hard coded percentage?
04:16	<Chris82>	yeah but you need my ChrisIN to load it
04:16	<@peter1138>	ahh
04:16	<@peter1138>	no wonder ;)
04:17	<Chris82>	http://openttd.sandra-bullock.co.uk/public/ChrisIN/save/r10383-ChrisIN.sav
04:17	<Chris82>	http://openttd.sandra-bullock.co.uk/public/ChrisIN/diff/r10383-ChrisIN.diff
04:17	<Chris82>	26th Mar 2113, I can't get any further
04:18	<Chris82>	time to start a game with r10383-trunk and see how far it goes :D
04:18	<dihedral>	Chris82: can you actually get .htaccess files to work with the windows webserver?
04:18	<Chris82>	there is a tool that enables .htaccess files on IIS yes
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04:18	<dihedral>	another question: why do you use IIS and not apache2? :-D
04:19	<Chris82>	ewwww Apache sucks
04:19	<dihedral>	lol
04:19	<Chris82>	:p
04:19	[~]	dihedral likes apache2!
04:19	<Chris82>	I am using 64-bit IIS6 and I am pretty happy with it
04:19	<dihedral>	ah
04:19	<dihedral>	well then
04:19	<Chris82>	I am alos already testing IIS7 which has superior performance to Apache2
04:20	<hylje>	iis6 is nice but unfortunately it locks you in to windows
04:20	<hylje>	kernel mode webserver, heh
04:22	<Chris82>	dihedral: htscanner will support htaccess on IIS but that's not the tool I meant actually
04:22	<Chris82>	I have too many favorites to find it right now :p
04:22	<dihedral>	nvm
04:22	<dihedral>	was just being curious
04:22	<dihedral>	because you can set the include path in .htaccess files
04:23	<dihedral>	with a php_val include_path ".:pear" instead of what i did, setting it at the top of php files
04:23	<Chris82>	I don't like such behaviour on websites though
04:23	<dihedral>	hehe
04:24	<Chris82>	I don't feel save when a site I host has access to a folder not available to the public
04:24	[~]	dihedral thinks that's worth a slap :-D
04:24	<Chris82>	lol
04:24	<dihedral>	j/k
04:24	<Chris82>	just started a r10383 unpatched game on fw :D let's see if it beats my IN in long time stability ggg
04:25	<dihedral>	i have setup apache2 in a way that i never have to revonfigure/restart apache even if i start hosting another domain
04:25	<hylje>	Chris82: might you have thought of private space? like settings files..
04:25	<Chris82>	what do you mean by private space?
04:25	<dihedral>	hehe, hylje: what about virtual machines :-)
04:25	<hylje>	things a site may use that is not public
04:26	<Chris82>	well one security hole in there and you never know what happens
04:26	<Chris82>	I don't tend to use features that I don't really need
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04:26	<Chris82>	bad enough that PHP is enabled g :p
04:26	<dihedral>	lol
04:27	<Chris82>	a few other people have their sites on my server and one guy made a pretty flawed PHP contact script which I had to take off
04:27	<dihedral>	once you start hosting a lot of other peoples stuff you tend to have a bunch of stuff
04:27	<Chris82>	because it could be misused to send mail to foreign domains
04:27	<Chris82>	and since the mails were not going through my ASSP proxy I couldn't block it
04:28	<dihedral>	Chris82: i tend not to continue hosting such people's stuff
04:28	<hylje>	why do you assert having a non-public part of a site being a security hole moreso than the public part?
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04:32	<Chris82>	because PHP apps often have security issues
04:32	<Chris82>	and therefore I don't want a PHP script to access anything on C:
04:32	<Chris82>	all websites are on a different hd
04:33	<hylje>	why would a non-public script access /C when a public doesnt?
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04:35	<Chris82>	dunno you just sometimes read stuff like a php script had includes lying on c and because the script was badly coded through a security hole in php you could access to the drive where the includes were residing
04:35	<hylje>	so actually your settings or php itself just suck
04:36	<Chris82>	yeah thus I don't allow much to php scripts
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04:38	<dihedral>	chroot the webserver :-)
04:40	<dihedral>	personally i think that works great :-)
04:40	<dihedral>	+ chroot of ssh logins :-)
04:40	<Chris82>	I obviously don't use SSH tho :p
04:40	<dihedral>	well
04:40	<dihedral>	ftp then
04:41	<dihedral>	you can though install an ssh server on windows :-D
04:41	<Chris82>	you mean rdp?
04:41	<Chris82>	not ftp?
04:41	<dihedral>	you allow others to rdp to your server?
04:41	<Chris82>	nooo lol
04:42	<dihedral>	phew
04:42	<Chris82>	sorry didn't get what you mean lol
04:42	<dihedral>	has the zip worked yet?
04:42	<Chris82>	just upload it
04:48	<stillunknown>	When did this stop being the openttd channel?
04:48	<dihedral>	oh - am i in an openttd channel?
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04:49	<dihedral>	hello elmz
04:49	<elmz>	hello
04:55	<Chris82>	WHAT THE :O
04:55	<Chris82>	AI cheats lmao
04:55	<Chris82>	they just demolished a road field from my own highway
04:55	<dihedral>	LOL
04:56	<dihedral>	it it were possible the other way around that should be fine
04:57	<elmz>	haha
04:57	<Chris82>	hmmm isn't the autorenew not working when servicing disabled fixed?
04:58	<elmz>	I just realized why my junctions werent all that efficient....never even thought of the speed limit om girder steel bridges ^^
04:58	<dihedral>	lol
04:59	<elmz>	kinda sux that you cant build tubular bridges of 3 squares in length...
04:59	<hylje>	elmz: :o
04:59	<dihedral>	true
04:59	<Chris82>	hmmmm 6 fountains next to each other aren't very smart either
04:59	<dihedral>	would be a nice addition
04:59	<dihedral>	LOL Chris82
05:00	<hylje>	fountains?
05:01	<elmz>	guessing hes speakin of a town :P
05:02	<Chris82>	yeah, I was on fw
05:02	<Chris82>	and they just build 6 fountains right next to each other
05:02	<Chris82>	and there were 5 statues nearby as well
05:02	<Chris82>	I am just running ChrisIN and r10383 on FW on one CPU each and see which game crashes earlier :D g
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05:05	<stillunknown>	Chris82: It's more interesting to test trunk for potentional problems.
05:06	<Chris82>	I also test performance if ChrisIN is slower, but so far they both show roughly the same day and year
05:06	<Chris82>	r10383 is trunk?
05:07	<stillunknown>	svn://svn.openttd.org/trunk
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05:10	<stillunknown>	Chris82: You don't know what trunk is?
05:10	<hylje>	how does Chris82 know what a trunk is
05:11	<Chris82>	?_?
05:11	<Chris82>	r10383 is the latest version in trunk
05:11	<Brianetta>	It's the latest revision in trunk
05:12	<Brianetta>	revision and version are not necessarily the same thing
05:12	<Chris82>	or revision ok :)
05:12	<elmz>	...but we all got the point :P
05:12	<stillunknown>	I just got the strangest error, floating point exception :-\|
05:12	<Chris82>	and if you mean if I know what the word trunk means, yes I do, it's the main stem of a tree :p
05:12	<@peter1138>	stillunknown: usually division by zero
05:13	<@peter1138>	i have no idea what FP has to do with it...
05:13	<SmatZ>	Chris82: isn't "trunk" the well known part of elephant's body, too?
05:13	<elmz>	and the trunk of a car? :P
05:13	<Chris82>	well overflow, underflow, inexact calculation can all be a fp exception
05:14	<Chris82>	haha I don't know about that elmz
05:14	<SmatZ>	I am glad I can learn new English words here :)
05:14	<Brianetta>	Comparing nought with zero is a fraught process in floating point
05:14	<Chris82>	stillunknown: Where did you get the fp exception?
05:14	<Brianetta>	Plus or minus zero times ten to the power of plus or minus anything
05:15	<stillunknown>	Nothing that isn't my fault ;-)
05:15	<Chris82>	lol
05:15	<Chris82>	hmmm it seems that some of the IN patches have quite some performance impact
05:16	<Chris82>	trunk is almost a year ahead after 20 minutes
05:16	<@peter1138>	elmz: no, cars have boots, not trunks
05:16	<Chris82>	boots? what part of a car is called boot?
05:16	<Chris82>	aren't boots "strong" shoes
05:16	<@peter1138>	Brianetta: correct. i'm assuming stillunknown was refering to an error from openttd, and there's not a lot of floating point there...
05:17	<Chris82>	like my Crusader in Ragnarok is wearing boots g
05:17	<@peter1138>	it's the bit that isn't the bonnet
05:17	<Chris82>	a car trunk is a compartment in an automobile that carries luggage or shopping or tools btw
05:18	<Chris82>	;)
05:18	<stillunknown>	Remember there are different kinds of english, with subtle or less than subtle differences.
05:19	<Chris82>	well British English is usually considered the "correct" English while all others are derivates from it
05:19	<elmz>	yes, we have british, international and stupid english ;)
05:19	<Brianetta>	peter1138: I got a floating point exception last night.
05:19	<Chris82>	just like Bavarian is not "Hochdeutsch" (High German)
05:19	<Brianetta>	I copied my whole openttd checkout from my workstation to my laptop.
05:19	<Brianetta>	FC6 to FC5
05:19	<Brianetta>	Ran ./openttd, and it bombed out with an FP exception immediately.
05:19	<Brianetta>	make mrproper
05:20	<Brianetta>	./configure
05:20	<Brianetta>	mkae
05:20	<Brianetta>	all fixed.
05:20	<@peter1138>	heh
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05:22	<stillunknown>	Sometimes i wonder why i pick the hard challenges, i can't just do a small feature, no i have to rewrite a core part of openttd.
05:22	<stillunknown>	With all the fun that comes with it.
05:23	<stillunknown>	I just hope that in the end it performs better, otherwise i'll be sad.
05:24	<dihedral>	Brianetta: -bash: mkae: command not found
05:25	<Brianetta>	dihedral: You need to install Gnu mkaetools (:
05:26	<dihedral>	lol
05:26	<dihedral>	though there is no Mkaefile
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05:27	[~]	Chris82 slaps dihedral around a bit with a large trout
05:27	<Chris82>	your php all in once package doesn't work :D
05:27	<Chris82>	also when I try to open your php file instead of seeing a blank page or something the php code is parsed
05:28	<Chris82>	do you use non default php tags?
05:28	<dihedral>	<? ?>
05:28	<dihedral>	ftp or rdp for good old dihedral ?
05:28	<Chris82>	just a sec I make an ftp account
05:28	<dihedral>	and perhaps a web address :-P
05:30	<Chris82>	see query :)
05:31	<Chris82>	vBulletin uses <?php I think <? is not enabled in the php config file
05:31	[~]	dihedral slaps Chris82 with a small trout just to experience the difference
05:32	[~]	Chris82 is not even being tickled by this really really little trout
05:33	<dihedral>	am i supposed to get an email from you?
05:34	<Chris82>	no?
05:34	<Chris82>	didn't you get my query?
05:34	<dihedral>	nope - using irssi - command line tool
05:34	<Chris82>	ahhh lol :D
05:34	<Chris82>	k I send a mail
05:34	[~]	dihedral slaps the trout with Chris82
05:35	[~]	Chris82 is too heavy for being used as slapper
05:35	<Chris82>	mail sent
05:36	[~]	dihedral does not even work up a sweat slapping Chris82 around - he weights nothing at all!!
05:37	<Chris82>	hmmmm I mention it again...
05:38	<Chris82>	auto renew does NOT work when servicing is disabled
05:38	<Chris82>	although trunk log tells me otherwise (i.e. it's supposed to be a fixed bug)
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05:39	<stillunknown>	Ah, i almost forgot the existence of ignore.
05:41	<hylje>	well.. ignore's existence's point is that it makes stuff not exist
05:48	<dihedral>	Chris82: what happend to your server?
05:48	<dihedral>	cannot reach the page...
05:49	<dihedral>	chris?
05:49	[~]	dihedral slaps Chris82 with a mid-sized trout
05:50	<Chris82>	huh?
05:50	<Chris82>	my server is fine why?
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05:51	<dihedral>	getting Service Unavailable
05:51	<Chris82>	your PHP had multiple failures so the App Pool was disabled :p
05:52	<dihedral>	!!
05:52	<dihedral>	lol
05:52	<Gekkko`>	hi
05:52	<dihedral>	uh
05:52	<dihedral>	hmmm
05:52	<Chris82>	it's back
05:52	<dihedral>	yeah - ok
05:52	<dihedral>	hi
05:52	<dihedral>	Chris82: The connection to the server was reset while the page was loading.
05:52	<stillunknown>	\ignore nathaneal@*
05:52	<dihedral>	thanks stillunknown
05:53	<dihedral>	but it's nathanael
05:53	<stillunknown>	spelled wrong
05:53	<dihedral>	and you may want a forward slash
05:53	<Chris82>	diheadral: I added the URL to its own AppPool now so it doesn't crash the other pages in the pool ;)
05:53	<dihedral>	and well done for looking up the whois :-)
05:54	<dihedral>	Chris82: still get a "connection reset by peer"
05:54	<dihedral>	sorry
05:54	<Chris82>	which URI do you try to open?
05:54	<dihedral>	<host>/example.sb.php
05:55	<stillunknown>	It's not working :-(
05:55	<dihedral>	stillunknown: perhaps because my name aint known here!!
05:55	<dihedral>	you would have to use my nick!
05:56	<stillunknown>	tried that too
05:56	<dihedral>	that just is tough luck :-)
05:56	<Chris82>	I dunno what's wrong with your php site but it crashes the AppPool :p
05:57	<dihedral>	is sais "page not found" when i access example.sb.php
05:58	<dihedral>	lol
05:58	<dihedral>	iis sucks
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05:58	<Chris82>	http://www.sandra-bullock.co.uk/images/openttd/crash.jpg < dihedral makes my clean event log dirty :D
06:00	<dihedral>	what does the error one say?
06:01	<Chris82>	well your script just keeps terminating unexpectingly and that shuts down the app pool after too many crashes
06:01	<Chris82>	it's some php or pear problem
06:01	<Chris82>	I disabled rapid fail protection for now
06:02	<Chris82>	try example.php those php code isn't parsed properly
06:02	<Chris82>	that*
06:02	<dihedral>	because of the <? tag
06:03	<Chris82>	set_include_path( '.;pear' ); < this won't work
06:03	<Chris82>	you must use 'pear' or '/pear'
06:04	<Chris82>	and '\pear' should work as well
06:04	<dihedral>	hmmm....
06:05	<Chris82>	and require_once( 'HTML/Template/Sigma.php' ); doesn't exist, how does the script know this dir is in the pear directory?
06:05	<dihedral>	yes
06:05	<dihedral>	which has to be in the include path :-)
06:06	<dihedral>	i set include path to the full path of this thing...
06:06	<dihedral>	still no luck
06:07	<Chris82>	I am just checking what could be wrong
06:11	<Chris82>	ok the example.sb.php file is fine now but Sigma.php doesn't find PEAR.php hmmm
06:11	<dihedral>	the include path setting is fine
06:11	<dihedral>	i know a dirty hack :-P
06:11	<dihedral>	na - will not work!
06:12	<dihedral>	na - take out the ../../ again
06:12	<dihedral>	does not work that way :-P
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06:14	<Gekkko>	hey
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06:15	<Chris82>	bugger :(
06:15	<dihedral>	i would need to see those error messages Chris82
06:15	<Chris82>	I gotta go now unfortunately
06:15	<Chris82>	we need to continue on this matter later on
06:15	<dihedral>	sure
06:16	<Chris82>	require_once 'PEAR.php'; < this line isn't working as it should in Sigma.php
06:16	<Chris82>	well I'll check it later
06:16	<Chris82>	see ya
06:16	<dihedral>	cu
06:19	<dihedral>	Chris82: the require_once statements do work
06:20	<dihedral>	just tried it from info.php
06:20	<Phazorx>	was there some grf for lighter canopy trams tracks?
06:21	<Chris82>	the easiest solution would be to make it work without PEAR :D cuz PHP itself works fine on the server
06:21	<Chris82>	anyway gotta hurry my girlfriend is waiting :p
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06:25	<Gekkko>	Chris82: did you fix your ChrisIN?
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06:49	<stillunknown>	Is there existing routine for reversing all the next pointers of a vehicle?
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06:50	<blathijs>	stillunknown: There should be something like that for dualhead trains, I'd say
06:50	<Sacro>	:o it speaks
06:54	<dihedral>	Chris82: problem lies in openttd.class.php
06:54	<dihedral>	the function call stream_select() seems to be causing issues!!
06:54	<dihedral>	line 438
06:55	<dihedral>	has nothing to do with pear!
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07:02	<Luukland>	How do English people call: Antwerpen? (near Bruxelles)
07:02	<Gekkko>	Antwerp?
07:02	<Luukland>	Just Antwerp? :)
07:02	<dihedral>	twerp :-)
07:02	<Gekkko>	Antwerp
07:02	<Gekkko>	and Brussels
07:02	<Gekkko>	Belgium?
07:02	<Luukland>	Yeah :P
07:02	<Gekkko>	Antwerp
07:02	<Luukland>	Making an English scenario :)
07:03	<Luukland>	So i need those town names :)
07:03	<Luukland>	thx
07:03	<Gekkko>	no worries :P
07:04	[~]	dihedral slaps Chris82 just for the fun of it
07:04	<Luukland>	>_<
07:05	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: miham * r10384 /trunk/src/lang/ (5 files in 2 dirs):
07:05	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-06-29 14:03:32
07:05	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: croatian - 261 fixed, 9 changed by tperic (270)
07:05	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: finnish - 2 changed by habazi (2)
07:05	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: hungarian - 1 fixed by miham (1)
07:05	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: romanian - 1 fixed, 38 changed by CrystyB (39)
07:05	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: ukrainian - 1 fixed by mad (1)
07:05	<Sacro>	!seen Bjarni
07:05	\|-\|	th_gergo [~th_gergo@dsl51B65D4A.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #openttd
07:05	<_42_>	Sacro, Bjarni (~Bjarni@0x50c79adc.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk) was last seen quitting #openttd.wt2 11 hours 28 minutes ago (29.06. 00:36) stating "Quit: Leaving" after spending 5 hours 43 minutes there.
07:05	<Luukland>	!seen Jupix
07:05	<_42_>	Luukland, Jupix? hmm... I'm trying to remember... maybe... I'm not sure... no. I don't remember Jupix.
07:05	<Luukland>	Grmbl
07:05	<Sacro>	@seen Jupiz
07:06	<@DorpsGek>	Sacro: I have not seen Jupiz.
07:06	<Sacro>	err
07:06	<Sacro>	@seen Jupix
07:06	<@DorpsGek>	Sacro: I have not seen Jupix.
07:06	<Luukland>	So Finally my England Scenario is done!!
07:09	<@peter1138>	12:59 < Luukland> How do English people call: Antwerpen? (near Bruxelles)
07:09	<@peter1138>	heh
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07:09	<Luukland>	It is Northwestern Europe :P
07:09	<@peter1138>	it always amuses me that countries' city names have different names in other languages...
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07:14	<stillunknown>	KUDr_wrk: Is there a distance_to function in yapf that accepts x and y coordinates?
07:14	<stillunknown>	for rail
07:15	<@peter1138>	or tileindex ?
07:15	<stillunknown>	It exists for tileindex i think.
07:15	<stillunknown>	But i need specific coordinates.
07:15	<@peter1138>	why?
07:16	<stillunknown>	I need the proper distance between vehicles when reversing, and no this is not trunk.
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07:18	<stillunknown>	When leaving depots i can make all sorts of assumptions which work great, but outside a lot more comes into play.
07:19	<stillunknown>	peter1138: So if you have secret ideas, don't hesitate to share them ;-)
07:19	<@peter1138>	none
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07:24	<dihedral>	does anybody have any ideas as to why stream_select() on windows php5 64bit iis causes iis to crash?
07:27	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: miham * r10385 /trunk/ (4 files in 3 dirs): -Change: [Translations] Croatian is an accepted language
07:29	<@peter1138>	because php is buggy shit
07:29	<@peter1138>	there's quite a few hits on google for that
07:29	<KUDr_wrk>	[14:16:17][14:16:17] <stillunknown> KUDr_wrk: Is there a distance_to function in yapf that accepts x and y coordinates? << distance to WHAT it should count?
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07:31	<KUDr_wrk>	stillunknown: yapf uses distance between target tile (center) and tile edge (tile/exitdir) when it calculates estimates
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07:40	<stillunknown>	KUDr_wrk: Distance between two points on the center of rail
07:41	<@peter1138>	as the crow flies?
07:42	<stillunknown>	Follow the rail, but with x and y coordinate precision.
07:44	<KUDr_wrk>	stillunknown: virtual coords (16/tile) or tile coords (1/tile)? Some general distance functions exist but not in yapf
07:48	<@peter1138>	virtual coords i think
07:48	<@peter1138>	sounds to me like the wrong solution to a problem
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07:55	<Brianetta>	It's a solution desperately in need of a problem
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07:57	<Brianetta>	Sacracro
07:57	<Sacro>	mmm, not good
07:57	<Brianetta>	Not good?
07:57	<Brianetta>	Hotdog sausages
07:57	<Brianetta>	with mustard
07:57	<Sacro>	Brianetta: i tried to type a message and peer reset me :(
07:57	<Brianetta>	Erection reset by beer
07:57	<Sacro>	ooh yes... with mustard, ketchup and onions...
07:57	<Sacro>	quite fancy that now
07:59	<Brianetta>	Ready for an early start?
07:59	<Sacro>	no i'm not :(
07:59	<Sacro>	i don't even know my route
07:59	<Brianetta>	Have you rung Virgin?
07:59	<Brianetta>	My advice is to ring them today
08:01	<Sacro>	well Northern Rail are running buses from Doncaster to Sheffield
08:01	<Sacro>	but personally, i'd rather divert via leeds
08:01	<Brianetta>	Your ticket isn't with Northern (:
08:02	<Brianetta>	well, not the important bit
08:02	<Sacro>	isn't it?
08:02	<Sacro>	well... no
08:02	<Sacro>	but if Northern won't let me connect at Leeds
08:02	<Brianetta>	This is why I said to ring up
08:02	<Sacro>	i'm trying to find anumber
08:02	<Brianetta>	Fact is, they sold you a ticket and they have to work together to honour it if possible
08:03	<Sacro>	mmm
08:03