TheGrebs.com:IRC Logs:#openttd:2007:06:28

---	Log	opened Thu Jun 28 00:00:10 2007
---	Day	changed Thu Jun 28 2007
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02:35	<dihedral>	mornin :-)
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02:51	<prakti>	G'morning.
03:23	<dihedral>	so
03:23	<dihedral>	...
03:24	<dihedral>	nice weather today
03:24	<hylje>	it rains
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03:25	<dihedral>	not raning here
03:25	<dihedral>	but aint exactly sunny either
03:30	<Gekkko`>	yes it isnt
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04:51	[~]	dihedral is curious to know if Brianetta has done some work on autopilot
04:51	<dihedral>	:-)
04:51	<Brianetta>	I haven't
04:52	<Brianetta>	Doing work on autopilot means setting aside a few hours at a time
04:52	<dihedral>	true
04:52	<Brianetta>	I don't have that kind of time until next year
04:52	<Brianetta>	unless I get lucky
04:52	<dihedral>	uh
04:52	<dihedral>	ouch
04:52	<Brianetta>	I'm getting married in November
04:52	[~]	dihedral wonders if he may have read access to Brianetta's autopilot svn repository
04:53	<dihedral>	Brianetta: wow
04:53	<Brianetta>	Of course you can
04:53	<dihedral>	congratulations
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04:53	<Brianetta>	Look at page 3 of the autopilot thread
04:55	<dihedral>	page 3 has no details to an svn checkout
04:56	<dihedral>	found it
04:57	<dihedral>	it's on page 5
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05:34	<dihedral>	Brianetta: what kind of things you want to add to autopilot?
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05:44	<Brianetta>	You can finish off the Tk module if you like (:
05:44	<Brianetta>	It's meant to resemble a control panel
05:44	<dihedral>	in what way "control panel" ?
05:45	<dihedral>	ncurses?
05:46	<eekee>	dihedral: Tk is a graphical widget set
05:47	<dihedral>	right
05:47	<dihedral>	i shall have a look at it
05:47	<dihedral>	:-)
05:47	<eekee>	:)
05:47	<dihedral>	but first i wanna see if i can get newgrf requests to work from OpenTTDLib
05:50	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: peter1138 * r10370 /trunk/src/genworld_gui.cpp: -Fix: Heightmap GUI abused custom name system and used unnecessary globals. All details are now kept within the window's custom data.
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05:56	<dihedral>	tcl/tk looks nice :-)
05:57	<eekee>	^^
05:57	<eekee>	tk seems nice, I've only used it via Python though
05:57	<dihedral>	though it will take me a bit to dive in :-P
05:57	<eekee>	yeah :D
05:57	<dihedral>	hmm...
05:57	<dihedral>	definatly not this weekend :-D
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05:59	<eekee>	:D
06:00	<Wac_jsC>	Could anyone give me some hints as a new player, or at least a link with hints for playing openttd ?
06:01	<Rubidium>	http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Getting_Started ?
06:01	<Wac_jsC>	well, not how to do, I know how to use openttd, but how to improve...
06:02	<@peter1138>	practice makes perfect
06:03	<Wac_jsC>	I know, but - i am looking for hints such as, more money for long distances
06:04	<dihedral>	http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Junction
06:04	<dihedral>	http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Advanced_signal_placement
06:05	<dihedral>	http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Advanced_Main_Line_Depot
06:06	<Phazorx>	it kinda matters what exactly are you reying to improve too
06:06	<Wac_jsC>	k
06:07	<dihedral>	Wac_jsC: playing online where people will actually give you tips is a good start
06:08	<Wac_jsC>	I already do a lot ;)
06:08	<dihedral>	as long as you get the tips :-P
06:08	<Wac_jsC>	lol :P
06:10	<dihedral>	http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Tips << also good to stick to
06:10	<Wac_jsC>	thanks
06:11	<dihedral>	http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Game_Mechanics#Station_rating
06:13	<eekee>	hey that junction marked spaghetti in the wiki... isn't ^^;
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06:14	<eekee>	this might be spaghetti: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/ethan.grammatikidis/misc-pics/openttd/2050%20Transport%20Co.,%2019th%20Jan%202090.png :D
06:15	<hylje>	pretty much
06:15	<hylje>	ewww
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06:15	<eekee>	hehe
06:16	<eekee>	there's an extra bridge since that pic was taken, & a couple of waypoints
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06:16	<Phazorx>	looks like any coopers junction is spaghetti
06:17	<eekee>	coopers?
06:17	<hylje>	#openttdcoop
06:17	<eekee>	oh :D
06:17	<XeryusTC>	Phazorx: not entirely true
06:17	<XeryusTC>	we have non-spaghetti hubs too
06:18	<Phazorx>	yeah... on frams netwrok in PS#46
06:18	<Phazorx>	that's why it is so slow :)
06:18	<XeryusTC>	not only there :P
06:19	<XeryusTC>	see PS#16
06:19	<Phazorx>	that' s way before my time
06:20	<XeryusTC>	anyway, that thing is more spaghetti than the original design
06:20	<XeryusTC>	by moi
06:20	<XeryusTC>	but i have to go
06:20	<XeryusTC>	bbl
06:22	<Ammler>	how do you define "spaghetti"?
06:22	<hylje>	i define spaghetti as XeryusTC
06:22	<Ammler>	hmm, true. :)
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06:23	<Phazorx>	splt before merge + at elast 1 TL queues before merge points would be it Ammler
06:24	<eekee>	I define spaghetti as "looks painful", more or less. http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Image:NewQBMJ.png
06:24	<Ammler>	Phazorx: you mean thats not spaghetti?
06:24	<eekee>	Phazorx: what's a TL queue?
06:25	<Phazorx>	tL = train length
06:26	<Phazorx>	tl queue - roof for train to wait for passing traffic at joiner w/o interupting following trains
06:26	<Phazorx>	s/roof/room/
06:26	<eekee>	ah nod
06:26	<eekee>	that's not spaghetti, that's sense
06:27	<hylje>	eekee: that junction lacks doubled tracks
06:28	<eekee>	um...
06:28	<hylje>	long tunnels
06:28	<Ammler>	our banner is based on spaghetti:http://openttdcoop.ppcis.org/wiki/index.php/Image:Bermuda.png
06:28	<hylje>	block :p
06:28	<hylje>	ironically Train 66 is lost
06:29	<eekee>	oh ah!
06:30	<eekee>	hehe
06:31	<Ammler>	this one is also nice: http://openttdcoop.ppcis.org/wiki/index.php/Image:Frankenstein_Hub.png
06:32	<Ammler>	can't imagine that #openttdcoop did ever build so...
06:32	<Phazorx>	:))
06:33	<hylje>	90 degree turns :)
06:33	<Phazorx>	quite different nowadays we are :)
06:33	<dihedral>	my word that image looks painfull
06:34	<eekee>	the primitive eekee percieves it merely as so complex as to be impressive o.o;
06:34	<Ammler>	but you can still find such things on the current "normal" MP games, not so big but such curves.
06:35	<hylje>	we should totally have a true b2b game someday
06:35	<hylje>	lets do everything wrong
06:36	<Phazorx>	PS47?
06:36	<Ammler>	hmm, the current ps game is so
06:36	<Phazorx>	yup
06:36	<hylje>	well that was by accident.. :-)
06:38	<eekee>	http://homepage.ntlworld.com/ethan.grammatikidis/misc-pics/openttd/Ganton%20Transport,%2022nd%20Jan%202100.png
06:39	<eekee>	not so bad... I hope :0
06:39	<eekee>	:)
06:39	<hylje>	:o
06:40	<eekee>	hehe
06:44	<dihedral>	i quite enjoyed this player on one of my servers once:
06:44	<dihedral>	http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=31762
06:46	<hylje>	whaaaaaaaaaat
06:49	<dihedral>	:-)
06:49	<dihedral>	it was way tooo amusing
06:49	<eekee>	LOL
06:50	<eekee>	I think you should be able to set a minimum signal distance in server code or something,
06:50	<eekee>	-,
06:50	<Ammler>	this problem will be solved with next version
06:51	<eekee>	cool?
06:51	<Ammler>	(bridges over a lot of things)
06:51	<Ammler>	or is there an other name now?
06:52	<dihedral>	Ammler: the next version aint gonna be 0.6
06:52	<dihedral>	rather 0.5.3
06:52	<eekee>	I'd have been happy with BOE - bridges over everything. Not strictly accurate but...
06:52	<Ammler>	and these bridges won't still be included?
06:52	<dihedral>	they will be included in 0.6 AFAIK
06:53	<Ammler>	they are in the trunk right after release of 0.5.1
06:53	<dihedral>	Ammler: releases for 0.5.x are made from /branches/0.5
06:53	<dihedral>	not from /trunk
06:53	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: peter1138 * r10371 /trunk/src/group.h: -Fix (r9874): Remove never-used GetGroupName() function
06:54	<Ammler>	yeah, but sometimes there are new features too
06:54	<Ammler>	not only bugfixing
06:55	<dihedral>	you can ask Rubidium he will know for sure :-)
06:56	<dihedral>	but i agree with eekee there should be a server side setting to the minimum signal desity
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06:56	<Ammler>	including new bridges is easier then that
06:57	<dihedral>	yeah right!
06:57	<Phazorx>	how do you enforce menimum density?
06:57	<Phazorx>	no signal on tile next to tile with a signal?
06:57	<Phazorx>	that will screw up way too many things
06:58	<dihedral>	you tell the player that either he places signlas according to your rules
06:58	<dihedral>	or you kick/ban him
06:58	<Phazorx>	i mean server side setting
06:58	<Maedhros>	Ammler: no, they're both impossible for 0.5.3 if you want any of the games to be loadable in trunk / 0.6
06:59	<dihedral>	Phazorx: i was personally thinking of having to variables
06:59	<dihedral>	one server side one client side
06:59	<dihedral>	client side < server side = server side var used
06:59	<Phazorx>	but it doesnt stop players from doing it manually
07:00	<dihedral>	no
07:00	<Phazorx>	put N lights together and drag from each of them
07:00	<dihedral>	true
07:00	<Brianetta>	Server-side restrictions on game play just lead to massive irritation all round
07:01	<Ammler>	btw, why will there be a 0.5.3?
07:01	<Brianetta>	No substitute for there being a human admin
07:01	<Brianetta>	Ammler: Normally it's because of bug fixes
07:01	<dihedral>	true again
07:02	<dihedral>	btw: for bridges over anything
07:03	<dihedral>	a bridge one level over tracks with a signal right underneath
07:03	<dihedral>	the signal shows through the bridge :-)
07:03	<Brianetta>	At least you can see it
07:04	<Ammler>	I guess, depense on the bridge grf, doesn't?
07:04	<Ammler>	pb_viaduct i.e.
07:05	<Maedhros>	not really, it depends more on the signal grf :p
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07:09	<dihedral>	check this out guys :-)
07:09	<dihedral>	http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/showthread.php?p=2803250
07:09	<eekee>	lol
07:10	<dihedral>	that is so funny
07:13	<Brianetta>	No it isn't
07:13	<Brianetta>	Bridge answered as if ragini had said colonol, which he hadn't.
07:13	<Brianetta>	colonel, even
07:13	<Brianetta>	colonol - distillate of rectum
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07:14	<dihedral>	thanks for that Brianetta !
07:14	<Brianetta>	(:
07:14	<dihedral>	i think it is funny :-)
07:15	<@peter1138>	i once had someone ask me to upgrade their colonel
07:16	[~]	dihedral hopes peter1138 did not at first think of colonol
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07:26	<Chris82>	dihedral: Don't you speak German?
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07:33	<Brianetta>	I hope he does
07:34	<dihedral>	Chris82: sure do - why?
07:34	<Brianetta>	Living in Germany would be an excercise in frustration if he didn't
07:34	<dihedral>	Brianetta: why do you hope i do
07:34	<dihedral>	ah
07:34	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	i am pretty sure there are people in germany who do not speak german :p
07:35	<Brianetta>	There are people in the UK who don't speak English
07:35	<dihedral>	i know there are Eddi\|zuHause3
07:35	<Brianetta>	We tend to shout at them
07:35	<Brianetta>	loudly and slowly
07:35	<dihedral>	they speak tuerken-deutsch :-)
07:35	<dihedral>	+ all the swiss and austrian people
07:36	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	lmao :p
07:36	<dihedral>	in fact schwaben are also not familiar with the german language
07:36	<dihedral>	:-)
07:36	<dihedral>	Chris82: why do you ask?
07:36	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	schwaben == "wir können alles, außer hochdeutsch"
07:36	<dihedral>	rofl
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07:37	<dihedral>	Eddi\|zuHause3: http://dict.leo.org/ende?lp=ende&lang=de&searchLoc=0&cmpType=relaxed§Hdr=on&spellToler=on&search=schwaben&relink=on
07:37	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	luckily i am at the opposite side of the country :)
07:37	<dihedral>	i aint
07:38	<dihedral>	they tend to speak "badisch" here
07:38	<dihedral>	and that is even worse
07:38	<Chris82>	dihedral: Because you e-mailed me in English and I thought you were German :D
07:38	<Chris82>	I just speak English here because not everyone speaks German :p but German is my native language ;)
07:38	<dihedral>	you have a co.uk domain!!
07:38	<Chris82>	I also own sandrabullock.de :p
07:39	<dihedral>	lol
07:39	<Chris82>	#1 or #2 in google.de :p
07:39	<dihedral>	Eddi\|zuHause3: that translation reminds me of the word swine
07:39	<Chris82>	I think wikipedia is #1 now :( they stole my spot lol
07:39	<dihedral>	Chris82: why such a big sb fan?
07:40	<dihedral>	just a curiosity question :-)
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07:40	<Chris82>	since I watched The Net in 1995 I am a huge fan :D
07:40	<Chris82>	I don't update the site very often anymore since I am busy with uni (and OpenTTD g) but I am still a fan
07:41	<Chris82>	also I have the biggest online (and probably offline too) Sandy fan club at www.sandrabullockcentral.com
07:41	<Gekko>	Chris82: you compililed found new town into trunk?
07:42	<Chris82>	uhm I compiled it in my IN version yeah
07:42	<Chris82>	and I am uploading it in a few mins to the forum
07:42	<Chris82>	just to make you happy :p
07:42	<Gekko>	linux or windows version?
07:42	<dihedral>	Chris82: where in germany are you from and where do you live now?
07:42	<Chris82>	well I am from Graz (which is in Austria) but I live in Berlin, THE Berlin :p
07:43	<Chris82>	because there is another small town with the same name in bavaria
07:43	<SmatZ>	hello all, I am back home again :D
07:43	<Chris82>	hi
07:43	<Gekko>	hi
07:43	<@peter1138>	sandra bullock looks strange :p
07:43	<Chris82>	lol
07:43	<Gekko>	Chris82: compiled for linux or windows?
07:43	<SmatZ>	I liked her when I was younger :) in the Demolition man
07:43	<Chris82>	well Natalie Portman and Scarlett Johannson definitely look better but Sandy has the better character :D
07:43	<dihedral>	Gekko: have a look at the thread in the forums
07:44	<Chris82>	Demolition Man is one of the finest movies ever yeah :D
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07:44	<Gekko>	why when i can ask him
07:44	<Chris82>	Geeko: I only compile a Windows binary and up the .diff file
07:44	<SmatZ>	yeah :) but it was 2006 and there are no freezing prisons...
07:44	<Chris82>	I don't think Visual Studio compile Linux binaries ;)
07:44	<Gekko>	fine by me :D
07:44	<dihedral>	how is OpenTTDLib coming for you Chris82
07:45	<Gekko>	i compile my own
07:45	<Chris82>	brb I gotta order Dia Hard Version 4 tickets lol :D
07:45	<Gekko>	and give the win bin to my friends
07:45	<Chris82>	dihedral: I just checked my mails and will customize it a little now
07:45	<Phazorx>	v4?
07:45	<Chris82>	Die*
07:45	<Chris82>	well it's called Stirb Langsam Version 4.0 in Germany
07:45	<Gekko>	lol. The Hard :p
07:45	<Chris82>	dunno the English title but I guesses it's Die Hard Version 4
07:45	<Chris82>	guessed*
07:45	<hylje>	die hard 4.0
07:45	<Gekko>	yep
07:46	<Gekko>	p
07:46	<Chris82>	are the criminals hackers this time or why is it 4.0 :D
07:46	<Chris82>	I mean why not 3.1 g
07:47	<Chris82>	like naked cannon 33 1/3 or whatever the movie is called OT
07:47	<SmatZ>	:)
07:47	<dihedral>	hello SmatZ
07:47	<SmatZ>	hello dihedral , nice day to you :)
07:47	<dihedral>	and you :-P
07:48	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	that's the worst part of dubbing movies... changing the name so you don't find it in original
07:49	<dihedral>	i dont like watching films in german anyway
07:50	<dihedral>	unless they are german origianlly
07:50	<hylje>	dubbing D:
07:50	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	i like watching series more than movies anyway... :)
07:50	<hylje>	censoring D:
07:51	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	"censoring" is a quite good word in some cases
07:51	<stillunknown>	My train has a cloaking device :-)
07:51	<dihedral>	dubbing or dumbing?
07:51	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	like the A-Team, in the first dubbed version they systematically removed any reference to vietnam :p
07:52	<dihedral>	thankfully they never dubbed any of the charly chaplin films
07:55	<dihedral>	and Anke as Marge aint quite the same either
07:56	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	well, actually it's closer to the original now
07:56	<dihedral>	closer is not equals :-)
07:57	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	well, you usually do not know what you miss if you never watched original
07:57	<dihedral>	i hardly watch anything in the cinema if they dont show it in original language
07:58	<dihedral>	Eddi\|zuHause3: true - i got the tick sinse i lived in the uk for some years
07:58	<stillunknown>	Anyone what's special about getting trains to render on a bridge?
07:59	[~]	tokai\|ni prefers subbed movies too. dubbing usually decreases quality of a movie
07:59	<hylje>	the finnish dub for the disney's aladdin was touted as the best voice acting in the world for that movie
08:00	<hylje>	particularly jafar
08:00	<dihedral>	you dont get all the jokes in the origianl language :-)
08:00	<hylje>	true
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08:00	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	well, depends on how well you speak the original language
08:01	<dihedral>	i left the 'as' away on purpose
08:01	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	it's better to miss 25% of the jokes from the original language than getting only served 50% from the translation
08:02	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	but if you miss 75% from watching the original language, you should better not do it
08:02	<hylje>	why not
08:02	<hylje>	since later when you do get the jokes, watching the movie ought to be most amusing
08:02	<dihedral>	at least you get to hear their real voices :-)
08:03	<dihedral>	my word - chris tucker compared to his syncer voice....
08:03	<dihedral>	lol
08:03	<Chris82>	hmmm stupid town founding patch... it breaks savegame compatibility with my first IN
08:03	<Chris82>	you gotta wait Gekko :p
08:03	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	i so had to laugh when i first heard the real voice of Zach Braff on Jay Leno :p
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08:03	<dihedral>	Chris82: lol
08:03	<Chris82>	need to fix this first, it only loads trunk, 0.5.2 and the last IN, but not the first IN version
08:04	<dihedral>	can your last IN load the first IN saves?
08:04	<Rubidium>	Chris82: that's because there was a savegame bump in trunk
08:04	<dihedral>	Rubidium: what is a 'savegame bump'?
08:04	<hylje>	dihedral: savegame version goes up
08:04	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	Chris82: an old version of IN will be unloadable every time the savegame version of trunk is changed
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08:05	<Chris82>	Rubidium: That bump was before my last IN release already, it didn't cause any problems :)
08:05	<dihedral>	Are there any server info bumps?
08:05	<Rubidium>	Eddi\|zuHause3: unless he writes some saveload mechanisms to load trunk and only IN savegames
08:05	<Chris82>	Eddi: No. My first and the last IN was released in between trunk savegame bumps and it caused no problems.
08:05	<Gekko>	Chris82: whenever yhou're ready.
08:05	<+glx>	dihedral: yes that can happen
08:06	<Gekko>	pm me the link to thread whenj ready.
08:06	<dihedral>	can something special be added when that is next done?
08:06	<Chris82>	trunk was bumped from 68 to 69, IN started at 70 anyway and is at 71 now
08:06	<Chris82>	with the currently published IN I can load trunk, 0.5.2 and IN since 10341
08:06	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	Chris82: yes, because the first version started as trunk+2, so you get the first savegame bump for free
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08:07	<Chris82>	the weird thing is with IN-10371 (not published) I can load IN-10351 but I cannot load IN-10343
08:07	<Chris82>	I don't quite get the reason atm
08:07	<Gekko>	lol
08:08	<Chris82>	becuase the only changes are some diagonal levelling fixes which have no effect on savegames anyway
08:08	<dihedral>	glx: any chance of that happening some time in near future
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08:09	<Rubidium>	Chris82: some things in the savegame of the patch itself must've been changed
08:10	<+glx>	Chris82: IN-10351 should load IN-10343, so you should be able to load IN-10343 in IN-10371 using an intermediate step
08:10	<Chris82>	yeah but it must be something that I overlooked
08:10	<Chris82>	10351 loads 10343 and 10341
08:11	<+glx>	so it's like the old miniin :)
08:11	<dihedral>	lol
08:11	<Chris82>	the IN I had before 10341 didn't load anything, so I removed it from the compatibility list
08:12	<+glx>	you load an "old" game in a "less old" IN, then save it, and load it in the current IN
08:12	<Chris82>	ah ok
08:12	<Chris82>	but for that to work the person needs all versions of the IN instead of just the latest
08:13	<+glx>	yes
08:13	<Gekko>	their problem.
08:13	<Gekko>	my problem.
08:13	<Gekko>	lol,
08:15	<Rubidium>	Chris82: keeping backward compatible with all your ChrisINs is a lot of extra work with respect to just loading the last few savegame versions
08:16	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	Chris82: you can do a few extra savegame bumps in the IN, then you have a longer chain of compatibility
08:17	<Chris82>	current trunk is 69 right?
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08:18	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	like you can do savegame version 100, then you have a compatibility that is probably longer than the lifetime of the IN anyway :)
08:19	<Chris82>	hmmm
08:19	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	but there's a MAX_SAVEGAME_VERSION of 256 somewhere that i do not really understand...
08:19	<Chris82>	255 I think
08:19	<Gekko>	hhhwhat does IN stand for?
08:19	<Rubidium>	integrated nightly
08:19	<SmatZ>	integrated nightly
08:19	<Chris82>	maybe 2^8 is the savegame number limit
08:19	<Gekko>	nice.
08:20	<Chris82>	I just took the IN from MiniIN which was discontinued a while ago
08:20	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	i kinda doubt it is...
08:20	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	MiniIN was not the first IN
08:20	<Chris82>	and to avoid confusion since my version is no MiniIN (i.e. with the same patches) I called it ChrisIN
08:20	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	and it was kind of a misnomer anyway :p
08:21	<Gekko>	ChrisINing
08:21	<Gekko>	:p
08:21	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	?
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08:22	<Chris82>	hmmmm in 10353 I added the finance history patch which is loadable with 10371 where I added better graphs and found a town
08:22	<Chris82>	10341 and 10343 is not loadable with 10371 but with 10353 this is confusing lol
08:22	<Rubidium>	finance history requires a savegame bump IIRC
08:23	<Chris82>	yeah it has a CONDARR in players.cpp
08:23	<Chris82>	I bumped savegame version by 1 from 10343 to 10353 which caused no problems
08:23	<Chris82>	now I bumped it again by 1 from 10353 to 10371 but only the previous version works
08:23	<Rubidium>	bumping the version number itself isn't the "difficult" bit
08:24	<Rubidium>	it's the saveload changes that usually cause the trouble
08:24	<Chris82>	so I need to look at the saveload.cpp code for a possible solution?
08:25	<Rubidium>	well, it's in one of the SLE_COND* or SLE_* stuff that something went wrong
08:25	<Rubidium>	you really cannot assume that all patches on the forum that change the savegame format do it correctly
08:25	<Rubidium>	or rather, most don't do it correctly
08:27	<Chris82>	well I already changed the form savegame version is handled/changed by a patch on almost all patches I added
08:27	<Chris82>	otherwise my IN wouldn't load anything except the IN games itself
08:28	<Chris82>	but maybe I still made something wrong somewhere
08:28	<Chris82>	I just started going through all the save/load code stuff so I wouldn't say I know everything about it
08:29	<Rubidium>	Chris82: saveload.cpp is usually not the place to fix your saveload problems
08:30	<Chris82>	can I somehow virtually make my game think that trunk savegame version is 70 so I can try something?
08:30	<Chris82>	setting LATEST_TRUNK = 69, to 70 in saveload.h should be enough I assume?
08:30	<Rubidium>	Chris82: you can easily
08:31	<Rubidium>	but... it won't test the saveload stuff because you haven't changed anything in the savegame except the version number, so the savegame is basically the same as for version 69
08:31	[~]	Phazorx recalls asking for a debug override of that some time ago
08:31	<Chris82>	ahhhh I just had an idea flashing through my head :p brb
08:32	<Rubidium>	Phazorx: if you know enough to "undo" savegame changes, you can easily for the savegame to be any version you want it to be
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08:33	<Phazorx>	Rubidium: it would be mroe convinient if it was possibel to make s&l not to care with a switch or soemthing for testing purposes
08:33	<Phazorx>	hacking code each time is tidious
08:34	<Rubidium>	but you already were hacking code
08:34	<Phazorx>	it was less fugly :)
08:34	<Phazorx>	essentially what i done last time was a very basic patch that would supress version matching at load time
08:34	<Chris82>	lmao huh how did I do this now.... now I can load 10343 with 10371 but I can't load 10353 anymore lol
08:34	<Phazorx>	but that is so not proper
08:35	<+glx>	undo savegame changes is easy, you just need the raw savegame (uncompressed), the source, and time :)
08:35	<Chris82>	I know this is probably a stupid question, but what happens when I simply ingore invalid chunk size on loading a game?
08:36	<Rubidium>	it loads garbage and crashes later on
08:36	<@peter1138>	badness
08:40	<dihedral>	sounds like fun
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08:50	<Chris82>	well I guess I need to have "interim" versions for savegame bumping available
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08:50	<Chris82>	that's the easiest solution
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08:51	<Gekko>	ok
08:52	<Chris82>	so I am going to up 10371 in a few mins
08:52	<Gekko>	back to being away
08:53	<Gekko>	pm me link Cfh
08:53	<Chris82>	Cfh ?
08:53	<Gekko>	Chris82: ^
08:54	<Gekko>	cfh=typo
08:59	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: rubidium * r10372 /branches/0.5/ (5 files):
08:59	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: [0.5] -Backport from trunk (r10288, r10290, r10293, r10294, r10295, r10347, r10348):
08:59	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: - Feature: Make the client list window (for network games) stickyable (r10293)
08:59	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: - Fix: Smooth economy did not close primary industries and it allowed increasing of production of industries that should not have rising productions (r10290, r10347, r10348)
08:59	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: - Fix: Flush the output of the dedicated server console (r10295)
08:59	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: - Fix: The "pause" key did not work in the scenario editor (r10294)
08:59	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: - Fix: Age non-front engines too (so when you move engines around in the depot they do not get age 0 when they are much older [FS#202] (r10288)
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09:08	<hylje>	you norwegians are silly
09:08	<hylje>	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Troll1.JPG
09:09	<Chris82>	http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=32698
09:10	<Chris82>	wh wrong window
09:10	<dihedral>	Rubidium: backporting the getdate command?
09:11	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: rubidium * r10373 /branches/0.5/ (misc_gui.c train_cmd.c tunnelbridge_cmd.c):
09:11	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: [0.5] -Backport from trunk (r10306, r10311, r10317, r10339, r10344):
09:11	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: - Fix: Acceleration for trains on slopes is not calculated properly [FS#786] (r10317, r10344)
09:11	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: - Fix: Rail could be destroyed when building tunnels (r10306)
09:11	\|-\|	Chris82 [~chris@p579E1E0C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: bbl]
09:11	<Rubidium>	dihedral: not going to do that again
09:11	<dihedral>	doing what again?
09:12	<dihedral>	it's been backported already?
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09:17	<dihedral>	Rubidium: if you backport 10290, how about 10340 (it's related)
09:19	<Rubidium>	10340 is broken
09:19	<Rubidium>	and superceded by 10347 + 10348
09:20	<dihedral>	ah
09:20	<dihedral>	nice to know
09:20	<dihedral>	thx
09:22	<dihedral>	when is the "do not increase production" used?
09:22	[~]	dihedral is curious
09:23	<Rubidium>	oil wells
09:23	<hylje>	why/where? :o
09:23	<dihedral>	when do they get the limit and why?
09:26	<Maedhros>	they always have the limit, and because Master Sawyer designed them that way
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09:31	<dihedral>	gotcha
09:31	<dihedral>	thx
09:32	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: rubidium * r10374 /branches/0.5/ (pathfind.c roadveh_cmd.c vehicle_gui.c waypoint.c window.c):
09:32	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: [0.5] -Backport from trunk (r10333, r10336, r10337, r10345, 10346, 10368):
09:32	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: - Fix: Waypoints could be renamed when you are not the owner (r10368)
09:32	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: - Fix: The 'old' pathfinders (OPF and NPF) for road vehicles could not find a path when in a tunnel [FS#290] (r10345, r10346)
09:32	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: - Fix: Only add the autoreplace menu when autoreplace actually knows about the group [FS#880] (r10337)
09:32	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: - Fix: Signal state sometimes not properly set when the signal "pathfinder" reached the end of a line [FS#910] (r10336)
09:32	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: - Fix: News messages were shown over the endgame/highscore windows [FS#943] (r10333)
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09:57	<dihedral>	last hour for today :-)
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10:08	<elmz>	hello people :)
10:09	<dihedral>	hi
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10:12	<Llama>	hi all
10:12	<Llama>	Could I play now openttd without original GRF's ?
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10:13	<Ammler>	Llama: not now, but they are easy downloadable over the forum
10:13	<stillunknown>	Anyone know what _tunnel_fractcoord_1 is?
10:14	<stillunknown>	tunnelbridge_cmd.cpp around line 1400
10:16	<@peter1138>	stillunknown: nasty original ttd code
10:16	<@peter1138>	it's checking vehicle's subtile position
10:16	<@peter1138>	byte value, bottom 4 bits are x, upper 4 bits are y
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10:17	<stillunknown>	The problem is, i'm messing with the train controller.
10:18	<stillunknown>	And i'm expecting a entered wormhole signal, yet i do not get it.
10:18	<stillunknown>	Ah, it's the just before you the tunnel code.
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10:19	<Llama>	hmm... and what alternative GRF set is suggested for openttd 0.5.2 ? Something that will change many item in a geme or so... Something really nice. ;)
10:20	<skidd13>	Llama: ttrs3 is the set you're searching for
10:21	<stillunknown>	ttrs will not work in 0.5.2
10:22	<Llama>	:(
10:23	<@peter1138>	suggestions for grf sets: try a load.
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10:24	[~]	dihedral is bored
10:24	[~]	dihedral wants to slap sonebody
10:25	<Sacro>	!seen Bjarni
10:25	<_42_>	Sacro, Bjarni (~Bjarni@0x50c79adc.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk) was last seen quitting #openttd.wt2 4 hours 42 minutes ago (28.06. 10:43) stating "Quit: Leaving" after spending 1 hour 55 minutes there.
10:25	<Sacro>	mwahahaha
10:26	<dihedral>	whats so funny about that?
10:26	<Sacro>	he gets a message when he next signs on
10:26	<Sacro>	and then he will slap me :(
10:26	<dihedral>	ah
10:26	<dihedral>	nive
10:26	<dihedral>	-v+c
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10:34	<Kjetil>	hm.. he gets a message hm...
10:34	<Kjetil>	!seen Bjarni
10:34	<_42_>	Kjetil, Bjarni (~Bjarni@0x50c79adc.virnxx14.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk) was last seen quitting #openttd.wt2 4 hours 51 minutes ago (28.06. 10:43) stating "Quit: Leaving" after spending 1 hour 55 minutes there.
10:36	<dihedral>	lol
10:37	\|-\|	scia [~scia@85.149.96.102] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
10:38	<ln->	!seen girls
10:38	<_42_>	ln-, girls? hmm... I'm trying to remember... maybe... I'm not sure... no. I don't remember girls.
10:38	<skidd13>	LOL
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10:50	<elmz>	lol
10:50	<SmatZ>	lol
10:51	<Sacro>	lol
10:51	<dihedral>	last 10 mins :-)
10:52	<hylje>	lol
10:52	<Sacro>	hmm
10:52	<Sacro>	what does &pointer do
10:52	<Sacro>	or *variable
10:53	<Maedhros>	&pointer gives you the address of the pointer
10:53	<Maedhros>	*variable probably won't compile
10:54	[~]	dihedral &points at Sacro
10:54	<dihedral>	...
10:54	<Sacro>	:o
10:54	[~]	dihedral &points at Sacro and laughs
10:54	<Sacro>	Maedhros: does a pointer have an address?
10:55	<Maedhros>	Sacro: yup, the pointer exists in memory as well
10:55	<dihedral>	lol
10:55	<Brianetta>	Sacro: Sis you see the video on the meeting thread?
10:56	<Sacro>	Brianetta: which noe?
10:56	<Sacro>	ahh
10:56	<Sacro>	&pointer = pointer
10:57	<Sacro>	and *variable won't compile
10:57	<Brianetta>	Sacro: Version 2
10:57	<Sacro>	Brianetta: yes, and i almost fell of my chair laghing
10:57	<Sacro>	*laughing
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10:58	<Brianetta>	(:
10:58	<Sacro>	oh.. no
10:58	<Sacro>	pointer == -1078826368
10:58	<Sacro>	&pointer == -1078826372
10:58	<Sacro>	guessing that pointer is 4 bits
10:58	<Maedhros>	on a 32 bit machine it's 4 bytes, yeah
10:59	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: rubidium * r10375 /branches/0.5/ (6 files in 4 dirs): [0.5] -Prepare 0.5 branch for release of 0.5.3-RC1.
10:59	<Sacro>	this is a 64 bit system
10:59	<@peter1138>	16:53 < Maedhros> Sacro: yup, the pointer exists in memory as well
10:59	<@peter1138>	not necessary
10:59	<@peter1138>	+il
10:59	<Sacro>	but a 32 bit distro
10:59	<@peter1138>	it could just be used temporarily in a register
11:00	<Rubidium>	ofcourse a register is memory too ;)
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11:00	<dihedral>	Rubidium: looking forward to 0.5.3 :-)
11:00	<dihedral>	anyhow
11:00	<dihedral>	time for me to head home
11:01	<dihedral>	cu all in about an hour
11:01	[~]	dihedral waves
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11:01