| --- | Log | opened Mon Jun 25 00:00:23 2007 |
| --- | Day | changed Mon Jun 25 2007 |
| 00:00 | <Rubidium> | a well, it's not OTTD's fault in general, maybe something todo with Windows and OTTD |
| 00:00 | <Rubidium> | as it works for me when joining a server |
| 00:00 | <Phazorx> | that's can be proven if a testcase fails as well |
| 00:01 | <Rubidium> | anyhow, I'm gone |
| 00:02 | <Phazorx> | night |
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| 01:26 | <mikk36> | uhm, Rubidium |
| 01:26 | <mikk36> | there is NO save folder :/ |
| 01:26 | <mikk36> | although, autosave was on |
| 01:26 | <mikk36> | for some reason, i don't see my conf either |
| 01:27 | <@peter1138> | ~/.openttd |
| 01:27 | <mikk36> | windows |
| 01:27 | <@peter1138> | or My Documents\OpenTTD heh |
| 01:27 | <mikk36> | D:\Games\OpenTTD-r10295 |
| 01:27 | <mikk36> | oh, it's moved ? |
| 01:27 | <mikk36> | aha |
| 01:27 | <mikk36> | and you want that tmp file ? |
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| 01:29 | <mikk36> | uploading to my server |
| 01:32 | <mikk36> | http://mikk36.eu/web/random_shit/network_client.tmp |
| 01:33 | <@peter1138> | $ bin/openttd |
| 01:33 | <@peter1138> | Segmentation fault (core dumped) |
| 01:33 | <@peter1138> | :D |
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| 01:34 | <mikk36> | and ? |
| 01:34 | <mikk36> | :D |
| 01:37 | <@peter1138> | i'll leave this one to rubidium |
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| 01:55 | <Ailure> | would be fun |
| 01:56 | <Ailure> | if we could have a donut-shaped world |
| 01:56 | <Phazorx> | where is smooth economy behavior in cide? |
| 01:56 | <Phazorx> | industry_cmd? |
| 01:56 | <Ailure> | like in freeciv |
| 01:56 | <Ailure> | or earthshaped too :p |
| 01:56 | <Phazorx> | Ailure: i ithnk plane will do |
| 01:57 | <Ailure> | well |
| 01:57 | <Ailure> | I think it would make some big maps more intresting |
| 01:57 | <Ailure> | you can have a railway line going around the earth |
| 01:58 | <Ailure> | in TT, I get the illusion of being stuck on a island |
| 01:58 | <Ailure> | isolated rest from the world |
| 01:58 | <Ailure> | instead of it being it's own world |
| 01:59 | <hylje> | Star Trek: the Animation. One season of lol, wut? ...IN SPACE! |
| 01:59 | <Phazorx> | so if going through egdes woud make train apper on over side it would be better ? |
| 02:00 | <hylje> | i had a crazy idea about a dynamic persistent world |
| 02:00 | <hylje> | not quite a round world but expanding over time |
| 02:00 | <Phazorx> | very realistic :) |
| 02:00 | <hylje> | yes |
| 02:00 | <hylje> | totally |
| 02:00 | <Phazorx> | heh |
| 02:01 | <Phazorx> | where's the damn smooth economy? |
| 02:01 | <hylje> | i dunno |
| 02:01 | <hylje> | grep economy openttd.cfg |
| 02:02 | <Phazorx> | i need the code not patch |
| 02:05 | <hylje> | o |
| 02:06 | <Phazorx> | ah... found it |
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| 02:33 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: peter1138 * r10316 /trunk/src/ (group_cmd.cpp group_gui.cpp lang/english.txt strings.cpp): -Codechange: (consistently) use index to refer to group names. Also the group string_id is irrelevant unless it is a custom name, so don't 'waste' a savegame string id. |
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| 02:50 | <mikk36> | and the guys are still in and playing the game :P |
| 02:51 | <mikk36> | world size has rose from 1300KB at 07:30am to 1900KB 10:50am :P |
| 02:51 | <mikk36> | damn :P |
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| 02:53 | <Ailure> | [08:56][08:56] <Phazorx> so if going through egdes woud make train apper on over side it would be better ? |
| 02:53 | <Ailure> | no no no |
| 02:54 | <Ailure> | although that's probably what makes it tricky to implement :p |
| 02:54 | <Ailure> | the map would loop in all directions or something |
| 02:55 | <Ailure> | although that can get a bit confusing :p |
| 02:58 | <Phazorx> | isnt that what i just said? |
| 02:58 | <Ailure> | hmmm |
| 02:59 | <Ailure> | I'm tired |
| 02:59 | <Ailure> | :p |
| 02:59 | <Ailure> | [08:57][08:57] <hylje> i had a crazy idea about a dynamic persistent world |
| 02:59 | <Ailure> | heh |
| 02:59 | <hylje> | overlapping |
| 02:59 | <hylje> | heh |
| 03:00 | <Ailure> | I played with the idea of servers connecting to each and could send trains to each other |
| 03:00 | <hylje> | yes |
| 03:00 | <hylje> | net junctions in many senses |
| 03:00 | <Ailure> | that would be potentiionally intresting |
| 03:00 | <Ailure> | but also have it's problems :p |
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| 03:02 | <Ailure> | what should the game do when a server goes down |
| 03:02 | <@peter1138> | disconnect, oddly enough |
| 03:02 | <Ailure> | send the trains into a void? |
| 03:02 | <Ailure> | :D |
| 03:12 | <hylje> | well theres redundancy |
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| 03:12 | <dihedral> | mornin' |
| 03:13 | <hylje> | and if the redundant world parts still go down |
| 03:13 | <hylje> | it enters that void and is restored later |
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| 03:24 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: rubidium * r10317 /trunk/src/train_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#786]: acceleration not calculated properly when a train goes up a hill between tunnels. |
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| 03:39 | <Ailure> | ...wut? |
| 03:39 | <Ailure> | oh wait |
| 03:39 | <hylje> | lol, wut? .. ON RAILS!! |
| 03:41 | <Ailure> | ah |
| 03:41 | <Ailure> | right |
| 03:41 | <Ailure> | I see the bug now |
| 03:42 | <Ailure> | the train dosen't slow down, when it should be |
| 03:48 | <@peter1138> | old old bug, that |
| 03:50 | <Smoky555> | hi ! How i can place different signal type on one tile? Is it possible? |
| 03:50 | <Rubidium> | Smoky555: use a (fairly) recent nightly |
| 03:51 | <Smoky555> | Rubidium : but in last SVN? |
| 03:52 | <Ailure> | ooh |
| 03:52 | <Ailure> | it's actually possible now? |
| 03:52 | <Ailure> | when did that happen |
| 03:53 | <Ailure> | just tried it out |
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| 03:57 | <Ailure> | most of the time, it was more of a cosmetically annoyance than gameplay :p |
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| 04:03 | <dihedral> | Rubidium: remember the smooth_economy patch i mentioned yesterday? |
| 04:03 | <dihedral> | apparently it does not work for producing industries doing 24-30 T |
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| 04:06 | <Rubidium> | I don't remember that |
| 04:16 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: miham * r10318 /trunk/src/lang/ (13 files): (log message trimmed) |
| 04:16 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-06-25 11:14:04 |
| 04:16 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: bulgarian - 7 fixed by thetitan (7) |
| 04:16 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: catalan - 2 fixed, 2 changed by arnaullv (4) |
| 04:16 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: danish - 15 fixed, 5 changed by ThomasA (20) |
| 04:16 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: dutch - 8 fixed, 39 changed by Zr40 (45), webfreakz (2) |
| 04:16 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: estonian - 2 fixed, 2 changed by t2t2 (4) |
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| 04:30 | <Rubidium> | mikk36: that savegame of yours is basically broken by a bug in trunk; trunk can store "only" 65535 references to cargopackets and you've got like 90000 cargopackets in the savegame, which means it wraps around at 65536 and that makes it use other packets which makes lots of things go haywire. |
| 04:30 | <mikk36> | oh, nice :P |
| 04:30 | <Rubidium> | What I can do is remove *all* cargopackets from the game so you can continue it, or you have to use an older savegame |
| 04:30 | <mikk36> | nah it's opk |
| 04:30 | <mikk36> | ok |
| 04:30 | <mikk36> | the guys are still in and playing it |
| 04:30 | <Rubidium> | anyhow, a fix will be coming |
| 04:30 | <mikk36> | as long as they don't drop out, they're fine |
| 04:30 | <Rubidium> | mikk36: exactly ;) |
| 04:30 | <mikk36> | although the cpu usage is high as hell |
| 04:31 | <mikk36> | 1.6Ghz removing all cargopackets just removes all waiting cargo and cargo on the move ? |
| 04:31 | <Rubidium> | mikk36: that's because there is a custom made leak checker for cargo packets running every tick |
| 04:32 | <mikk36> | 1.6Ghz was about the cpu running it |
| 04:32 | <mikk36> | P4 |
| 04:32 | <Rubidium> | but that will be removed in a while |
| 04:32 | <mikk36> | :) |
| 04:32 | <dihedral> | Rubidium: r10290 |
| 04:34 | <Rubidium> | what's the problem with that? |
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| 04:36 | <@peter1138> | it's a random revision number :D |
| 04:37 | <Rubidium> | peter1138: well, it did fix smooth economy with low productions |
| 04:37 | <dihedral> | do productions at 24/30 T |
| 04:37 | <dihedral> | so basically below 32 |
| 04:38 | <dihedral> | peter1138: and why would i post a random revision number? |
| 04:38 | <@peter1138> | "do productions at 24/30 T" does not parse |
| 04:38 | <dihedral> | just for the sake of not making any sense |
| 04:38 | <@peter1138> | dihedral: well, ok, 30 minutes ago it would've made sense ;) |
| 04:39 | <dihedral> | just thought i'd pass it on :-) |
| 04:39 | <dihedral> | personally i ignore industies that are that low |
| 04:40 | <dihedral> | but it's a shame if they dont recover |
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| 04:55 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | *mental note* simultaneously doing video encoding and playing openttd will not work... |
| 04:55 | <ln-> | why's that? |
| 04:55 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | i feel like i am back on my 386 ;) |
| 04:56 | <@peter1138> | dual core cpu required |
| 04:58 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | yeah, but i am fresh out of those :p |
| 04:58 | <@peter1138> | quad core then? :D |
| 04:58 | <dihedral> | na - just a second computer and a kvm |
| 04:58 | <eekee> | play agame with a tiny map. I was doing that yesterday while compiling, iirc |
| 04:59 | <dihedral> | 64x64 is amazingly funny |
| 04:59 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | and by my luck, the video encoding software is multithreaded, to fill out all cores ;) |
| 04:59 | <dihedral> | renice it :-P |
| 04:59 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | i actually tried to play on my daylength x32 game... |
| 04:59 | <eekee> | 64x64 is cute |
| 05:00 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | i believe it's 1024x1024 |
| 05:00 | <dihedral> | renice -20 -p `pidof openttd` |
| 05:00 | <@peter1138> | 128x128 gives you a nice tricky game |
| 05:00 | <@peter1138> | enough to link up but you can't run long lines for mega-profi |
| 05:00 | <@peter1138> | +t |
| 05:00 | <dihedral> | 64x64 map: and try not to get the local auth pissed :-P |
| 05:00 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | i don't really care about profit... |
| 05:01 | <@peter1138> | and you have to be frugal with the amount of vehicles else you get constant lockups |
| 05:01 | <eekee> | I'm playing 1 such game with freight um.. weight multiplication up at 15 |
| 05:01 | <dihedral> | wow |
| 05:02 | <eekee> | hilly too, it's interesting. Not too hard, maybe I shoul try it with the UKRS lol |
| 05:02 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | i'm running dual BR 38 with 30 ore wagons |
| 05:02 | <eekee> | got another such game with tons of coal on a loop rail around the town |
| 05:02 | <eekee> | ^^' |
| 05:04 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | oh, and i do daily autosave :p |
| 05:04 | <@peter1138> | daily? :o |
| 05:05 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | well, yes, with x32 daylength, that is one original month :p |
| 05:05 | <@peter1138> | ah |
| 05:06 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | keeping it monthly wasn't exactly often :p |
| 05:07 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | this is so funny, if i unpause the game, it runs smoothly for a few seconds, and then it slows down again :) |
| 05:08 | <eekee> | heh |
| 05:10 | <eekee> | peter1138: http://homepage.ntlworld.com/ethan.grammatikidis/misc-pics/openttd/Tatminster%20Transport,%203rd%20Feb%202037.png Kiloton of coal per month, no lockups |
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| 05:13 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | could it be that the trams have a wrong offset? |
| 05:13 | <eekee> | offset? |
| 05:13 | <Rubidium> | ofcourse it could be |
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| 05:14 | <Rubidium> | but most likely a problem with the newgrf |
| 05:14 | <Rubidium> | let me guess, the "Hiro tram" looks wrong? |
| 05:16 | <eekee> | Hiro Tram? |
| 05:16 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | i don't know what tram it is... i only see the picture above |
| 05:16 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | and the tram looks like it is going next to the rails, not on the rails |
| 05:16 | <Rubidium> | is it a green tram? |
| 05:17 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | yeah... |
| 05:17 | <eekee> | Oh, the trams in that are all Serbian, All the passenger ones are the "Be" type, the frieght trams are the "Be" cloned into a new grk & made refittable |
| 05:17 | <eekee> | yeah |
| 05:17 | <Rubidium> | then it's most likely the hiro tram |
| 05:17 | <eekee> | I see what you mean |
| 05:17 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | if i had to guess, the offset was "optimised" for right traffic side, and it looks odd with left (or "wrong" :p) traffic side |
| 05:17 | <Rubidium> | that tram's first part's sprite is 7/8th of a normal tram, but the newgrf doesn't say so |
| 05:18 | <@peter1138> | eekee: ah, yes, i've not played a small game since the new bridges... |
| 05:18 | <@peter1138> | Eddi|zuHause3: no, the offset is just wrong |
| 05:18 | <@peter1138> | uk tram set will have correct offsets :D |
| 05:19 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: rubidium * r10319 /trunk/src/saveload.cpp: -Fix (r10266): the limit of 65535 references was not enough for cargo packets. Increase this limit to approximately 2^32, which noone should ever be able to reach on any normal system ;) |
| 05:19 | [~] | peter1138 kicks CIA-1 for being so slow |
| 05:19 | <eekee> | peter1138: they are convenient, but I think that layout would work with the old bridges |
| 05:23 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: rubidium * r10320 /trunk/src/ (lang/english.txt station_cmd.cpp strings.cpp): -Fix [FS#278]: one could only build a limited number of stations before one had to rename them. |
| 05:23 | <eekee> | oh there would be a bit of trouble down by the oil refinery. Very slow trains under that bridge, & there used to be a slow oil train sharing the same tracks, I would have had some trouble there |
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| 05:24 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | i am not starting a new game until PBS is implemented :p |
| 05:26 | <dihedral> | lol |
| 05:26 | <eekee> | heh |
| 05:27 | <eekee> | I used timetabling a bit on a recent game. Was confusing, but I think it helped |
| 05:27 | <dihedral> | does setting the day length influence the speed of vehicles? |
| 05:27 | <Gekkko`> | how does time tables work? |
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| 05:29 | <eekee> | Gekkko`: with cogs & steam clocks, for all I understand it |
| 05:29 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | dihedral: no, it just changes the amount of ticks until the day ends |
| 05:29 | <mikegrb> | all the guys put their watch on a table and then one by one the girls pick up a random watch... oh wait that is something else |
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| 05:30 | <eekee> | hehe! |
| 05:30 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | along with some controversial "fixes" what should be calculated per tick and what should be calculated per day |
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| 05:31 | <mikegrb> | elmex's client has comitment issues |
| 05:33 | <Gekkko`> | eekee: I mean, on OTTD what does it prove |
| 05:33 | [~] | eekee gives a big shrug, saying "I'unno!" |
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| 05:41 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: peter1138 * r10321 /trunk/src/ (8 files in 4 dirs): -Codechange: refer to sign text by index |
| 05:41 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | what is all that indexing about? |
| 05:41 | <@peter1138> | :D |
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| 05:42 | <@peter1138> | it's leading up to replacing the custom name array |
| 05:42 | <@peter1138> | == not limited to 32 chars each and not limited to 512 names |
| 05:42 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | ah... |
| 05:43 | <hylje> | quest to custom name array! |
| 05:43 | <@peter1138> | which is good for furriners (multibyte unicode sequences) and large games/scenarios |
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| 05:44 | |-| | Frostregen_ changed nick to Frostregen |
| 05:45 | <@peter1138> | it's a little bit more useful than my opengl blitter ;) |
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| 05:49 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: maedhros * r10322 /trunk/src/timetable_gui.cpp: -Codechange: Make the timetable window smaller by default so it doesn't take up so much space on small resolutions. |
| 05:50 | <dihedral> | just out of curiosity |
| 05:50 | <dihedral> | why is the svn repository not served over dav_svn? and apache? |
| 05:51 | <eekee> | I think that's a bit of a pain to set up |
| 05:51 | <dihedral> | lol - no it aint!! |
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| 05:52 | <ln-> | Maedhros: if you made it narrower, how will that affect on (translated) texts fitting in the buttons? |
| 05:52 | <Smoky555> | grrrr... WT2 make big boom on {SIGN} phrase ... and big error ... :\ |
| 05:52 | <dihedral> | i would probably have to ask TrueBrain? |
| 05:53 | <@peter1138> | Smoky555, cool :) |
| 05:53 | <@peter1138> | but we'll have to wait for MiHaMiX to fix it |
| 05:54 | <Rubidium> | and MiHaMiX will be away for the day |
| 05:54 | <Smoky555> | peter1138 : i can't translate this phrases into russian :( yes, i know about MiHaMiX |
| 05:54 | <Maedhros> | ln-: i didn't. i just reduced the height of it |
| 05:54 | <@peter1138> | ln-: but if he did, over long strings will fall out... |
| 05:55 | <ln-> | indeed |
| 05:55 | <@peter1138> | clearly we need the magic cpp_gui to fix it ;) |
| 06:01 | <eekee> | nuuuuuh! Can't build heliports |
| 06:01 | <eekee> | local authority refuses another airport... |
| 06:01 | <@peter1138> | only 2 airports allowed per town |
| 06:01 | |-| | Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-84-227-4-225.adslplus.ch] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] |
| 06:01 | <eekee> | but they're heliports, it's ridiculous that they be limited in the same way |
| 06:02 | [~] | dihedral agrees |
| 06:02 | <@peter1138> | there's "noise level" patch that works quite nicely iirc |
| 06:02 | <eekee> | Oh? |
| 06:02 | <@peter1138> | each airport has a noise value and you can have up a certain limit per town |
| 06:03 | <eekee> | ahh |
| 06:03 | <@peter1138> | so that's 2 large airports or 4 small, or somesuch |
| 06:03 | |-| | Nickman [~nn@d54C1C327.access.telenet.be] has joined #openttd |
| 06:03 | <dihedral> | could someone do me a favour and join to a game , create a company and set a pass? |
| 06:03 | <eekee> | how would I get hold of it? |
| 06:04 | |-| | Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-84-227-4-225.adslplus.ch] has joined #openttd |
| 06:04 | <@peter1138> | pass |
| 06:04 | <eekee> | heh :) |
| 06:04 | <@peter1138> | but it's out there somewhere |
| 06:04 | <eekee> | right |
| 06:04 | <@peter1138> | Belugas, ping? :o |
| 06:04 | <eekee> | incidentally, can you reshape airports in grf? I'm thinking of autogyros with their short runways... |
| 06:05 | <dihedral> | eekee: would you like to give me a helping hand? |
| 06:06 | <eekee> | might as well |
| 06:06 | <Vikthor> | eekee: Pasky made once such patch http://pasky.or.cz/~pasky/dev/openttd/airports.patch but I am afraid it is outdated and it wont probably apply |
| 06:06 | <dihedral> | whats the latest revision of trunk you have compiled? |
| 06:06 | <eekee> | Vikthor: thanks |
| 06:06 | [~] | eekee grabs anyway |
| 06:07 | <eekee> | dihedral: what server? |
| 06:07 | <dihedral> | openttd.dihedral.de:27030 |
| 06:07 | <dihedral> | it's running r10318 |
| 06:07 | <eekee> | oh |
| 06:08 | <dihedral> | what do you have? |
| 06:08 | <Vikthor> | eekee: It is from begining of December, so if you are able to sync it... |
| 06:08 | <dihedral> | i dont mind up/down grading |
| 06:08 | <dihedral> | as long as its after 10306 |
| 06:08 | <eekee> | funnily enough I just synced a patch for Source Mage last night. That was a 1-liner though :d |
| 06:08 | <eekee> | dihedral: 10306... |
| 06:08 | <dihedral> | hmm... |
| 06:08 | <Maedhros> | r10306 happened long after november :p |
| 06:08 | <dihedral> | somthing newer? |
| 06:08 | <eekee> | Oh I can upgrade |
| 06:09 | <dihedral> | let me know which revision |
| 06:09 | <dihedral> | just in case you are getting latest trunk/ |
| 06:09 | <Maedhros> | that patch should be pretty easy to sync though, looking at it |
| 06:09 | <eekee> | 10318I'll just grab |
| 06:09 | <eekee> | ugh, typo |
| 06:10 | <eekee> | building |
| 06:10 | <dihedral> | i would like to do the thing 2 times, once starting the server pw protected, and once not |
| 06:10 | <dihedral> | althouth it should not make a diff at all!! |
| 06:10 | <eekee> | heh |
| 06:11 | <eekee> | what company does your thingy join as? |
| 06:11 | [~] | dihedral is tired and might be blabbling rubbish |
| 06:11 | <dihedral> | none... |
| 06:11 | <eekee> | o |
| 06:11 | <dihedral> | just like your client shows stats on games |
| 06:12 | <eekee> | ohhh |
| 06:12 | <dihedral> | :-) |
| 06:13 | <dihedral> | if i joined as a company or spectator i would have to probably download the map?? |
| 06:13 | <Maedhros> | yes, you would |
| 06:14 | <dihedral> | or could i just send a MAP_OK packet :-P |
| 06:14 | [~] | dihedral wonders how far eekee is with compiling r10318 |
| 06:15 | <eekee> | done just this second |
| 06:16 | <eekee> | ok loaded up, what was the server? |
| 06:16 | <dihedral> | openttd.dihedral.de:27030 |
| 06:17 | <dihedral> | before you ask: "test" |
| 06:17 | <eekee> | ah yeah |
| 06:17 | <dihedral> | che? |
| 06:18 | <dihedral> | eekee: whats up? |
| 06:18 | <eekee> | stuck at "preparing to join" |
| 06:19 | <dihedral> | it already closed your connection... |
| 06:19 | <dihedral> | there |
| 06:19 | <dihedral> | nice |
| 06:19 | <eekee> | Oh! blah |
| 06:20 | <eekee> | whoa, what happened to 2nd company color? |
| 06:22 | <dihedral> | autopurge_protected = true |
| 06:22 | <eekee> | huh? |
| 06:22 | <dihedral> | sorry = 0 |
| 06:22 | <eekee> | o |
| 06:22 | <dihedral> | does it in the mean time mean |
| 06:22 | <dihedral> | protected companies are not made unprotected/purged |
| 06:23 | <Brianetta> | no |
| 06:23 | <dihedral> | Brianetta: was hoping to see you around :-) |
| 06:23 | <Brianetta> | If you have any form of auto-purge on, all companies will be purged in 254 months or less. |
| 06:24 | <dihedral> | but autopilot can do that right? |
| 06:24 | <Brianetta> | Why were you hoping to see me? |
| 06:24 | <Brianetta> | autopilot can't do anything time based |
| 06:24 | <Brianetta> | unless you want it real time |
| 06:24 | <Brianetta> | as in, by the clock, not by the game date |
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| 06:25 | <dihedral> | well - check every 5 mins if companies are unprotected |
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| 06:25 | <dihedral> | warn if a player is in that company with a say command |
| 06:25 | <dihedral> | remember which player has received how many warnings |
| 06:25 | <Brianetta> | It oculd be done, if I put the UDP code into autopilot |
| 06:25 | <dihedral> | after 3 warnings kick |
| 06:25 | <Brianetta> | why kick? |
| 06:26 | <dihedral> | i dont like unprotected companies ! |
| 06:26 | <dihedral> | Brianetta: you would not need the udp code |
| 06:26 | <Brianetta> | Well, you can put that code into autopilot yourself. It's free software, after all. |
| 06:26 | <Brianetta> | dihedral: How else would you suggest I determine whether a company is passworded? |
| 06:26 | <dihedral> | the command players |
| 06:27 | <dihedral> | last word = (un)protected |
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| 06:27 | <dihedral> | since 0.5.2RC1 |
| 06:27 | <Brianetta> | Ah |
| 06:27 | <dihedral> | :-) |
| 06:27 | <@peter1138> | and the "date" command |
| 06:27 | <Brianetta> | No wonder autopilot keeps screwing up on that release |
| 06:27 | <@peter1138> | since... somewhen |
| 06:27 | <dihedral> | you added the date command? |
| 06:28 | <Brianetta> | date |
| 06:28 | <Brianetta> | ERROR: command or variable not found |
| 06:28 | <Brianetta> | Apparently not in 0.5 |
| 06:28 | <@peter1138> | hmm |
| 06:28 | <dihedral> | Brianetta: lol |
| 06:28 | <@peter1138> | apparently not :o |
| 06:28 | <dihedral> | well - is in the forums :-D |
| 06:28 | <@peter1138> | ah |
| 06:28 | <dihedral> | i always had to add it myself |
| 06:28 | <@peter1138> | getdata |
| 06:28 | <@peter1138> | er |
| 06:28 | <@peter1138> | getdate |
| 06:28 | <@peter1138> | getdate |
| 06:28 | <@peter1138> | Date: 1-1-2050 |
| 06:28 | <@peter1138> | stupid date format :o |
| 06:28 | <dihedral> | lol |
| 06:28 | <dihedral> | still - nice |
| 06:28 | <Brianetta> | dihedral: The dedicated server console is badly documented, mostly ignored and lacking many important features. autopilot is always playing catchup, which is made harder when trying to maintain backward compatibility. |
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| 06:29 | [~] | dihedral agrees |
| 06:29 | <Brianetta> | getdate |
| 06:29 | <Brianetta> | ERROR: command or variable not found |
| 06:29 | <@peter1138> | yeah |
| 06:29 | <dihedral> | not been backported |
| 06:29 | <@peter1138> | once i get my time machine working... |
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| 06:31 | <dihedral> | Brianetta: there are chat commands for irc to autopilot right? |
| 06:31 | |-| | elmex [~elmex@e180065239.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd |
| 06:31 | <Brianetta> | yes |
| 06:31 | <dihedral> | are there chat commands for ingame to autopilot? |
| 06:31 | <Brianetta> | yes |
| 06:32 | <dihedral> | should it work with !fish? |
| 06:32 | <Brianetta> | no |
| 06:32 | <stillunknown> | Why do cities refuse food when they reach a certain size? |
| 06:32 | <dihedral> | oh |
| 06:33 | <eekee> | stillunknown: food's place is taken by goods in building accepts |
| 06:34 | <dihedral> | are the say commands then hardcoded for ingame to autopilot? |
| 06:34 | <eekee> | put a station in the suburbs & it'sll take food |
| 06:34 | <Brianetta> | yes |
| 06:35 | [~] | dihedral things Brianetta aint very talkative :-) |
| 06:35 | <Brianetta> | I'm a bit frustrated with autopilot |
| 06:35 | <Brianetta> | Servers running in autopilot tend to quit |
| 06:35 | <Brianetta> | where servers not running in autopilot do not |
| 06:35 | <@peter1138> | strangeness :/ |
| 06:35 | <Brianetta> | and I have no idea why |
| 06:36 | <Brianetta> | All I know is that autopilot receives an EOF from openttd, and the process exits. |
| 06:36 | <dihedral> | uh |
| 06:36 | <dihedral> | not so nice! |
| 06:37 | <Brianetta> | It resists all attempts to debug |
| 06:37 | <Brianetta> | especially as it's relatively rare |
| 06:37 | <Brianetta> | but if my Standard Server isn't running, it's because that happened. |
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| 06:37 | <dihedral> | is it when autopilot restarts the game or when te game restarts itself? |
| 06:38 | <Brianetta> | autopilot doesn't restart games |
| 06:38 | <Brianetta> | and my server doesn't restart itself |
| 06:38 | <Rubidium> | Brianetta: what commands are you really missing? |
| 06:38 | <Brianetta> | admin intervention, every time |
| 06:39 | <Brianetta> | Rubidium: Information. Most of the stuff that's available through the UDP protocol would be nice, although backwards compatibility will make it harder to capitalise on new things appearing. |
| 06:40 | <Brianetta> | autopilot supports 0.4.8, but the companies command in IRC just blanks out |
| 06:40 | <dihedral> | on 0.4.8? |
| 06:40 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | what about doing an autopilot snapshot for each version, and screw backwards compatibility? |
| 06:40 | <Brianetta> | so none of the internal code depends on it |
| 06:40 | <Brianetta> | Eddi|zuHause3: People miss the new features. |
| 06:40 | [~] | dihedral likes Eddi|zuHause3's idea |
| 06:41 | <dihedral> | but one cannot have trunk/ features in an 0.4 game |
| 06:41 | <Brianetta> | I don't specifically support trunk |
| 06:41 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | i mean, provide a 0.4(.8) version, but stop developing it |
| 06:41 | <Brianetta> | My server runs 0.5 |
| 06:41 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | and do a 0.5 version that is backwards compatible only for 0.5.x servers |
| 06:42 | <Brianetta> | Eddi|zuHause3: Nobody would use it, unless I fixed bugs |
| 06:42 | <Brianetta> | and I do often have bgs to fix |
| 06:42 | <Brianetta> | I'd rather have one base of code to maintain on teh bugs front |
| 06:42 | <dihedral> | make it modular |
| 06:42 | <Brianetta> | It *is* modular |
| 06:42 | <Brianetta> | as modular as can be |
| 06:43 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | well, then i can't help you any further :) |
| 06:43 | <dihedral> | i mean in a way that the !companies command |
| 06:43 | <dihedral> | has a plugin for 0.4.8 |
| 06:43 | <Brianetta> | unfortunately, the event loop is handled by Expect |
| 06:43 | <dihedral> | and one for 0.5.2 |
| 06:43 | <Brianetta> | dihedral: Should I assume that the user will put the correct version in? |
| 06:43 | <dihedral> | hmmm... yes :-P |
| 06:44 | <dihedral> | just needs to be documented |
| 06:44 | <Brianetta> | Have you read the documentation? |
| 06:44 | <dihedral> | or autoload plugins depending on the version configured |
| 06:44 | <dihedral> | to some extent yes |
| 06:44 | <Brianetta> | Well done. You, DaleStan and me are the only ones I know of. |
| 06:45 | <Maedhros> | Brianetta: what would need to be changed before timetables became useful to you? |
| 06:45 | <Brianetta> | Maedhros: Interesting question. There needs to be some way of anchoring the timetable. |
| 06:45 | <Brianetta> | That is, the timetable needs an external point of reference. |
| 06:46 | <dihedral> | Brianetta: i would love to see the console of ottd become more powerfull! |
| 06:46 | <Maedhros> | would being able to set the date that the timetable should start for each vehicle help? |
| 06:46 | <Brianetta> | Maedhros: I have an idea |
| 06:47 | <Brianetta> | Put a command in a timetable which, when the train reaches it, sends a "signal" |
| 06:47 | <dihedral> | Maedhros: it would be great if the timetables showed the average time taken on the last round |
| 06:47 | <Brianetta> | The player can put this into one timetable |
| 06:47 | <Rubidium> | Brianetta: quite a lot of information is passed via the UDP packets |
| 06:47 | <Brianetta> | Then make other vehicles' timetables "depend" on this signal by making them wait until that signal is sent |
| 06:48 | <Brianetta> | Rubidium: I am very aware |
| 06:48 | <Rubidium> | and just dumping exactly what those UDP packets sent is probably not "the right thing" |
| 06:48 | [~] | dihedral is liking Brianetta's idea |
| 06:48 | <Maedhros> | Brianetta: hmm, challenging :) |
| 06:48 | <Brianetta> | Rubidium: I have the UDP code written in Tcl, and I intend to embed it in autopilot at some point |
| 06:48 | <blathijs> | brr, tcl |
| 06:48 | <dihedral> | :-P |
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| 06:48 | <Rubidium> | but as I don't have any experience with running (especially managing) a server, I wouldn't know what useful commands would be |
| 06:49 | <Brianetta> | Maedhros: So, ebd result is that you can start a train, but it won't move (or increment its late counter) until the master train reaches a certain point on its journey |
| 06:49 | <dihedral> | Rubidium: anything that gives power to admins :-) |
| 06:49 | <Brianetta> | Rubidium: To make it useful, you have to treat it as a screen reader (: |
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| 06:49 | <Brianetta> | The admin is blind |
| 06:50 | <Brianetta> | Being able to list signs and their locations would be excellent |
| 06:50 | <Brianetta> | Being able to list stations, vehicles, towns |
| 06:50 | <Brianetta> | Of course, interpreting the output with autopilot is a separate challenge (: |
| 06:51 | <dihedral> | make it human readable |
| 06:51 | <Brianetta> | dihedral: It always will be |
| 06:51 | <Rubidium> | yeah, but dumping all signs or *all* vehicles |
| 06:51 | <Brianetta> | Rubidium: With filters |
| 06:51 | <dihedral> | i mean easily :-) |
| 06:51 | <Brianetta> | Signs are coloured by company (or world) |
| 06:52 | <Brianetta> | Also, the admin can't ask the server directly what the landscape is, what newgrfs are running, etc |
| 06:52 | <dihedral> | being able to send a raw message would be nice too |
| 06:52 | <dihedral> | ie. excluding the [All] Console: |
| 06:52 | <Brianetta> | dihedral: That doesn't make an awful lot of sense... |
| 06:53 | <Brianetta> | Oh, like a global echo |
| 06:53 | <dihedral> | :-) |
| 06:53 | [~] | Brianetta shrugs |
| 06:53 | <dihedral> | when people from IRC chat to autopilot |
| 06:53 | <Brianetta> | autopilot chats back, yes |
| 06:53 | <dihedral> | autopilot can do a message "[All] autopilot:" out of it |
| 06:53 | <Brianetta> | Bridging two chat protocols using a wrapper is always like that |
| 06:54 | <dihedral> | then sending a raw message is usefull |
| 06:54 | <Brianetta> | There's a bridge between FreeNode's #Tcl and a Jabber chat channel |
| 06:54 | <Brianetta> | and everybody just has to get used to seeing the bridge's nickname at the start of each line |
| 06:54 | <Brianetta> | Anyway, autopilot's IRC module is completely optional |
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| 06:54 | <dihedral> | does not mean it has to be the same for ottd |
| 06:55 | <Brianetta> | We should be suggesting things which are useful to admins, not to me as a script dev |
| 06:55 | <dihedral> | welcome messages, add a reason message for kicking |
| 06:56 | <Brianetta> | autopilot was written to *overcome* shortcomings in the dedicated server, not to demand enhancements |
| 06:56 | <dihedral> | Brianetta: autopilot is a sort of admin |
| 06:56 | <dihedral> | it's an admins helper :-P |
| 06:56 | <Brianetta> | TO begin, it was only there to greet players and to pause the game |
| 06:56 | <Brianetta> | Those tasks are no longer necessary |
| 06:56 | <dihedral> | but there are other tasks that it can do |
| 06:57 | <Brianetta> | It was also used to backport fixes |
| 06:57 | <dihedral> | like having it handle a map list and load the next scenario to the next game |
| 06:57 | <Brianetta> | For example, you can set net_frame_freq in openttd.cfg for 0.4.8 with autopilot |
| 06:57 | <Brianetta> | it parses the config and sets the variable |
| 06:57 | <Brianetta> | openttd does that itself now |
| 06:58 | <Brianetta> | dihedral: autopilot would need a radical overhaul to be able to reset itself for a new game |
| 06:58 | <dihedral> | the same way ottd grows autopilot can have new administrative features |
| 06:58 | <Brianetta> | CUrrently, you exit it and start a new one |
| 06:58 | <dihedral> | would autopilot have to restar itself? |
| 06:58 | <Brianetta> | It'd have to reset a whole load of internal state |
| 06:58 | <Brianetta> | and be wrapped in some sort of loop |
| 06:58 | <dihedral> | run a load command? |
| 06:59 | <dihedral> | the trigger could be an echo in scripts/on_dedicated.scr |
| 06:59 | <Brianetta> | It'd also have to be able to archive off the current saved game, so that it wasn't overwritten |
| 07:00 | <stillunknown> | Brianetta: Who still uses 0.4.x? |
| 07:00 | <dihedral> | Brianetta: if i put an echo "next scenario" in scripts/on_dedicated.scr |
| 07:00 | <dihedral> | and the game reaches the end game date |
| 07:00 | <dihedral> | and starts a newgame |
| 07:00 | <dihedral> | it would output next scenario on the console |
| 07:01 | <Brianetta> | dihedral: Can you code in Tcl? |
| 07:01 | <dihedral> | when that happens autopilot could run load blah.scn |
| 07:01 | <dihedral> | Brianetta: unfor not yet |
| 07:01 | <Brianetta> | Learn it, and you can have SVN access |
| 07:01 | <dihedral> | lol |
| 07:01 | <dihedral> | autopilot is your baby :-P |
| 07:02 | <dihedral> | emphasis on your :-D |
| 07:02 | <Brianetta> | It's free software |
| 07:02 | <Brianetta> | As its owner and maintainer, I don't *have* to accept all patches supbmitted |
| 07:02 | <Brianetta> | but I can |
| 07:02 | <Brianetta> | and it'll always be GPL |
| 07:02 | <stillunknown> | Why not put effort into improving openttd? |
| 07:02 | <dihedral> | stillunknown: because openttd does not have to handle everything autopilot does |
| 07:02 | <Brianetta> | stillunknown: Still working on the Tk interface, and trying to suss out why it causes dedicated servers to quietly quit |
| 07:03 | <dihedral> | would not make sense |
| 07:03 | <dihedral> | Brianetta: you know php? |
| 07:03 | <Brianetta> | dihedral: Unfortunately |
| 07:03 | <dihedral> | how about i learn some tcl and help you out and you help me out :-D |
| 07:04 | <Brianetta> | What do you want help with? |
| 07:04 | <dihedral> | OpenTTDLib |
| 07:04 | <dihedral> | :-P |
| 07:04 | <Brianetta> | Well, I wrote a UDP parser for OpenTTD, and I have written several PHP applications |
| 07:05 | <dihedral> | afk (auf klo) :-D |
| 07:08 | <dihedral> | back :-P |
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| 07:10 | [~] | SpComb has a ottd.py that does master-server server listings and server-info |
| 07:10 | <dihedral> | Brianetta: would it be too hard to include? |
| 07:10 | <Brianetta> | A python script? |
| 07:10 | <Brianetta> | It'd markedly increase the requirements |
| 07:10 | <dihedral> | i did not mean the py script |
| 07:11 | <dihedral> | i ment the loading scenarios |
| 07:11 | <Brianetta> | It'd be difficult to include right now |
| 07:11 | <Brianetta> | but anything's possible |
| 07:11 | <Brianetta> | At the moment, autopilot is written with one presumption |
| 07:11 | <dihedral> | if there was a unique something to be retrieved from the games (unique to each round) |
| 07:11 | <dihedral> | then i would do some data mining |
| 07:11 | <Brianetta> | that there's one game, after which everything quits. |
| 07:12 | <Maedhros> | Brianetta: i've been looking at this, and setting a time for a vehicle to start the timetable is a lot easier (to code) than your idea about emitting signals |
| 07:12 | <Brianetta> | The MySQL module uses this assumption most of all |
| 07:12 | <Rubidium> | dihedral: how can we add something "unique" to a game? |
| 07:12 | <Brianetta> | and the startup sequence |
| 07:12 | <Maedhros> | Brianetta: will that be enough to make them useful though, do you think? |
| 07:13 | <Brianetta> | Maedhros: Depends how the time thing works. I'm not aware of a clock in the game, as such |
| 07:13 | <Maedhros> | well, currently you tell it to start the timetable on a specific date |
| 07:13 | <dihedral> | Brianetta: a timestamp of when the current map was started would suffice |
| 07:13 | <Brianetta> | I posted a suggestion somewhere, or wrote here on IRC once... |
| 07:14 | [~] | Brianetta does a quick search |
| 07:14 | <dihedral> | would be also interesting if games are paused when nobody is playing |
| 07:14 | <Brianetta> | They are... |
| 07:14 | <dihedral> | and one could show since when the game was running |
| 07:14 | <Rubidium> | dihedral: primarily because you don't know whether something is unique, you can't store the last "id" in openttd.cfg and then you would need to store the id in the savegame too |
| 07:15 | <Brianetta> | Maedhros: My original suggestion involved a clock |
| 07:15 | <Rubidium> | but what if the savegame gets loaded in another server that already has used that "unique" ID for another game |
| 07:15 | <Brianetta> | which could be shown in the corner of the screen |
| 07:15 | <Brianetta> | which ran at one minute per day, or there-abouts |
| 07:16 | <dihedral> | no |
| 07:16 | <Brianetta> | or five minutes per day, I think I suggested |
| 07:16 | <dihedral> | i dont think you understood me correctly |
| 07:16 | <Brianetta> | It was a long time ago |
| 07:16 | <Brianetta> | but you could timetable a train by time, to the nearest 5 minutes |
| 07:16 | <Brianetta> | and that time would be constant across the game |
| 07:16 | <dihedral> | just the timestamp of when openttd started the map |
| 07:17 | <Maedhros> | Brianetta: well, you can basically do that with days now, as long as you know when the timetable starts, no? |
| 07:17 | <Brianetta> | If a train took more than a timetable-day to reach a destination, then the next time should simply be assumed to be the next instance of that time |
| 07:17 | <Brianetta> | Maedhros: You can. When does the timetable start? |
| 07:17 | <Brianetta> | A clock is easiest, I think. Especially when you're trying to make a slot to insert one train into a route containing several tens of trains. |
| 07:18 | <Brianetta> | Stopping all trains and restarting the timetable isn't practical |
| 07:19 | <Brianetta> | but if that train won't leave before 6:15, then it'll wait there until the clock says 6:15 |
| 07:19 | <Brianetta> | and if it's more than 6 hours late, make it wait for the next 6:15 |
| 07:19 | <Rubidium> | maybe some button with "spread evenly"? |
| 07:19 | <Brianetta> | no |
| 07:19 | <dihedral> | lol |
| 07:19 | <Brianetta> | no automatic spreading |
| 07:19 | <Brianetta> | timetables are timetables |
| 07:19 | <Brianetta> | not traffic smoothers |
| 07:19 | <dihedral> | a train needs a certain time 'at least' to get from a to be |
| 07:20 | <Brianetta> | dihedral: That's all that's implemented |
| 07:20 | <dihedral> | just remember the last average of all trains in the shared order |
| 07:20 | <Brianetta> | A timetable should allow you to predictably create a traffic gap |
| 07:20 | <dihedral> | so one can at least see am i entereing a reasonable valo or not |
| 07:20 | <Brianetta> | into which a slow vehicle could be inserted, to schedule |
| 07:20 | <dihedral> | yes, but you dont want to underestimate |
| 07:21 | <dihedral> | and that will happen |
| 07:21 | <Maedhros> | Brianetta: the timetable starts when you tell it to - e.g. 1st of June 1954, and is different for each train |
| 07:21 | <Brianetta> | Maedhros: A good start would be to time existing journeys, so that the player can see how long that vehicle too to make the journey last time |
| 07:21 | <dihedral> | + late trains should let your station rating go down :-P |
| 07:21 | <Maedhros> | Brianetta: yeah, i'm going to try to add that as well |
| 07:21 | <Brianetta> | Maedhros: Would you have to recalculate this each time you tweaked the timings? |
| 07:22 | <Maedhros> | recalculate the start date? yes... how else would it work? |
| 07:22 | <Brianetta> | To be honest, I'm not even sure what resetting the late counter does. Does it make the current order's travel time become 0? Does it make the next order start at 0 on arrival? |
| 07:22 | <Brianetta> | Does it remain at 0 until you start the train? It should... |
| 07:23 | <Maedhros> | yes, it makes the next order start at 0 on arrival |
| 07:23 | <Brianetta> |
