| --- | Log | opened Wed Jun 20 00:00:47 2007 |
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| 02:28 | <dihedral> | good morning |
| 02:28 | <dihedral> | seems awfully quiet in here! |
| 02:35 | <hylje> | no |
| 02:35 | <hylje> | it is peaceful |
| 02:36 | <dihedral> | thats a way of putting it |
| 02:37 | <Rubidium> | the silence before the storm? |
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| 02:46 | <|Gekkko|> | I'm here |
| 02:46 | <|Gekkko|> | therefore the world will end |
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| 02:48 | <hylje> | :o |
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| 03:45 | |-| | Chris82 [~chris@p579E1E52.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd |
| 03:45 | <Chris82> | good morning |
| 03:45 | <Chris82> | is peter here? :) |
| 03:45 | <Chris82> | just read your reply: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=599123#599123, unfortunately it didn't fix the issue :( |
| 03:46 | <peter1138> | yes |
| 03:46 | <peter1138> | you need to up the saveload version too |
| 03:47 | <Chris82> | I did so, the savegame was made with 66 so I set the CONDVAR to from 66 and the SAVEGAME_VERSION is now 67 in saveload.cpp |
| 03:47 | <Chris82> | but I still get the error |
| 03:48 | <Chris82> | this seems very odd anyway, which unknown tag can the savegame containt when the old setting was S (i.e. do not store in savegame) |
| 03:49 | <peter1138> | huh? |
| 03:49 | <peter1138> | you need to set the CONDVAR to from 67 |
| 03:50 | <peter1138> | as it didn't exist in 66 |
| 03:50 | <Chris82> | ah ok :D |
| 03:50 | <Chris82> | let me try that |
| 03:52 | <Chris82> | perfect that did the job, thx for the quick help so early in the morning =) |
| 03:53 | <Phazorx> | hmm... can i profile ottd within mingw? |
| 03:54 | |-| | Mucht [~Mucht@p57A0F6C3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] |
| 03:57 | <peter1138> | probably |
| 03:58 | <Rubidium> | depends on whether you can actually profile anything in mingw ;) |
| 03:59 | <|Gekkko|> | the windows version is MinGW? |
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| 04:01 | <Chris82> | Does anybody know how to change the default size of a window with the better graphs patch? |
| 04:01 | <Chris82> | The standard windows seem pretty tiny on a big screen when opened |
| 04:02 | <Phazorx> | Rubidium: that exactly is my question |
| 04:03 | <Maedhros> | Chris82: look for the static const Widget _<name> and WindowDesc arrays, and change the width and height there |
| 04:03 | <Phazorx> | |Gekkko|: yes, w32 |
| 04:03 | <Rubidium> | Phazorx: sounds like a question for some mingw specialists and I don't think we've got them here |
| 04:04 | <Phazorx> | Kaan? |
| 04:04 | <Chris82> | thx, I think I found the correct line :) |
| 04:04 | <Maedhros> | Chris82: you'll have to change all the widget widths and heights too |
| 04:04 | <Maedhros> | yay for pixel-based guis ;) |
| 04:05 | <Phazorx> | yay for search and replace too :) |
| 04:06 | <Chris82> | +static const WindowDesc _history_window_desc = { |
| 04:06 | <Chris82> | + WDP_AUTO, WDP_AUTO, 640, 256, |
| 04:06 | <Chris82> | I think this is the line for width and height? |
| 04:06 | <Chris82> | it should draw all of the graph windows since they all open with the same size by default |
| 04:07 | <Maedhros> | it should do, perhaps, but i'm pretty sure it doesn't ;) |
| 04:16 | |-| | TheJosh [~josh@d58-104-127-103.dsl.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #openttd |
| 04:16 | <TheJosh> | hey all |
| 04:25 | |-| | Nickman changed nick to Nickman^Away |
| 04:28 | <Chris82> | Maedhros: Haha well that partially did what I wanted, it only increased the size of the graph itself |
| 04:28 | <TheJosh> | hey i am just interested, whats the demographic of players using different operating systems? |
| 04:28 | <Chris82> | the window has still the same size, so the borders are smaller than the graph and also the title bar |
| 04:29 | <TheJosh> | brb |
| 04:30 | <Rubidium> | TheJosh: very hard to determine; most Windows/OSX people download the binaries, most linux/unix users compile directly from subversion |
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| 04:31 | <Biff> | the linux-binaries takes some time to come out, so you often have to compile |
| 04:32 | <Chris82> | Rubidium: Then I am very constrasty to other people :D I am Windows fanatic, but I only compile OTTD myself :D |
| 04:33 | |-| | tokai|ni [~tokai@p54B8179C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #openttd |
| 04:33 | <Phazorx> | i tihnk that is easy to determine amongsts active players by putting a poll on download page |
| 04:34 | <Rubidium> | Phazorx: doesn't work, because a lot of people (especially linux) compile straight from subversion and therefor never see that page |
| 04:34 | <Phazorx> | svn probably has stats too |
| 04:35 | <Rubidium> | don't think it tells you the operating system |
| 04:36 | <Caemyr> | Chris82: this is the whole beauty of open source software |
| 04:36 | <Caemyr> | to compile it yourself |
| 04:37 | |-| | |Gekkko| changed nick to Gekkko |
| 04:37 | <Caemyr> | i`m also a WinNT fanboy, but i compile each new rev of ReactOS myself, even though it takes quite a lot of time... |
| 04:37 | <Caemyr> | i`m getting things ready to compile OTTD as well |
| 04:38 | <Rubidium> | setting up a working build environment under windows is pretty tricky, unless you use buildottd ofcourse |
| 04:38 | <Caemyr> | you have a building environment? |
| 04:39 | <Caemyr> | for win32/gcc? |
| 04:40 | <Rubidium> | well, a user made it. You can find it on the forum and sf.net |
| 04:42 | <Caemyr> | if only it works, i cant ask for more |
| 04:42 | <Caemyr> | what gcc can be used? |
| 04:42 | <Rubidium> | "any" |
| 04:42 | <Caemyr> | ah:) |
| 04:42 | <Caemyr> | great thx |
| 04:43 | <Rubidium> | as long as it's gcc-2.95 or more, but 4 is probably best |
| 04:43 | <Gekkko> | can the Win32 version be compiled from GNU/Linux? |
| 04:43 | <Caemyr> | yeah |
| 04:43 | <Caemyr> | 3.4.5 was pretty buggy |
| 04:43 | <Gekkko> | what about GNU/Hurd |
| 04:43 | <Gekkko> | :P |
| 04:43 | <Noldo> | Rubidium: 2.95 might not be good if someone has used stdlib containers |
| 04:43 | <Noldo> | c++ stdlib that is |
| 04:43 | <Maedhros> | it works - the morphos port is compiled with it |
| 04:44 | <Biff> | Chris82: you compile windows yourself? |
| 04:44 | <Biff> | ;) |
| 04:44 | <Rubidium> | gcc 2.95 gives a big load of warnings though |
| 04:45 | <Chris82> | Biff: Yes ;) *jk* |
| 04:45 | <Chris82> | An operating system is nothing that should be open source. |
| 04:45 | <Caemyr> | i`m still amazed seeing what you`ve done with good old ttdlx |
| 04:45 | <Biff> | Chris82: why not? |
| 04:46 | <Chris82> | I am primarily absolutely against open source. Games like OTTD is something ok, but Open Source Anti Virus Tools, Firewall, or even Operating Systems, noooo way I am ever gonna use that. |
| 04:46 | <Gekkko> | Chris82: go away |
| 04:46 | <Gekkko> | >_> |
| 04:46 | <Noldo> | your loss |
| 04:46 | <Biff> | Chris82: so, if the source code of windows would be open, you would delete windows? |
| 04:46 | <Chris82> | Yes, then I'd use Mac OS X |
| 04:46 | <Gekkko> | why |
| 04:46 | <Gekkko> | Mac OS X is partly Open Source |
| 04:46 | <Chris82> | I don't like the idea of every hacker in the world knowing the source code of all software I use |
| 04:46 | <Gekkko> | under a BSD licence |
| 04:47 | <Noldo> | Gekkko: mostly even |
| 04:47 | <Biff> | Chris82: go on, delete it. its partly open source already, alot of students etc have access to the source code of windows |
| 04:47 | <Gekkko> | lol Chris82 |
| 04:47 | <Gekkko> | reverse engineering |
| 04:47 | <Gekkko> | you wonder how you have your machine dying. |
| 04:47 | <Noldo> | Chris82: if it's well coded the source won't help |
| 04:47 | <Chris82> | I am computer science student, but it would be new to me that I get Windows Source Code access :D |
| 04:47 | <Gekkko> | seems that you are in the wrong profession |
| 04:47 | <Gekkko> | or going towards it anywho |
| 04:47 | <Noldo> | Chris82: is it's not well coded hiding the source won't help in protecting you |
| 04:48 | <Gekkko> | lol Noldo: Windows secret to security is the //fixme written all through out their source code |
| 04:48 | <Gekkko> | could you imagine Vista written in ASM? |
| 04:48 | <Chris82> | Assembler? |
| 04:48 | <Noldo> | Chris82: And can you tell if windows is well coded? |
| 04:48 | <Biff> | i call troll :-) |
| 04:49 | <Chris82> | No I can't tell because I don't even have the skills to code anything even closely as complex as Windows. |
| 04:49 | <peter1138> | lol |
| 04:49 | <Chris82> | When I see the source I wouldn't be able to tell it as well :p |
| 04:49 | <Biff> | Chris82: more then 1 person makes a operating system |
| 04:49 | <peter1138> | worst argument ever against opensource |
| 04:49 | <Gekkko> | peter1138: agreed. |
| 04:50 | <Gekkko> | I believe in kick ban :) |
| 04:50 | <Chris82> | But speaking of source code, I gotta hurry to uni for my Java exercice :p |
| 04:50 | <Biff> | Gekkko: i belive in free speech |
| 04:50 | <Chris82> | Thanks :) |
| 04:50 | <TrueBrain> | @kick Gekkko I too believe in kicks |
| 04:50 | |-| | Gekkko kicked [#openttd] DorpsGek [I too believe in kicks] |
| 04:50 | |-| | Gekkko [~Brendan@CPE-58-168-99-207.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd |
| 04:50 | <Gekkko> | lol |
| 04:50 | <TrueBrain> | morning all |
| 04:50 | <Chris82> | I have nothing against people who like open source |
| 04:50 | <Chris82> | and I have nothing against Linux |
| 04:50 | <Noldo> | gekko belives in autorejoin |
| 04:50 | <Gekkko> | yep |
| 04:50 | <Chris82> | it's just nothing that I want to use |
| 04:51 | <TrueBrain> | next time it is a ban for 2 minutes :p Mwhahahaha! |
| 04:51 | <Gekkko> | enjoy Vista Chris82 |
| 04:51 | <Gekkko> | lolol |
| 04:51 | <Chris82> | I do :) |
| 04:51 | <Gekkko> | <3 DRM |
| 04:51 | <TrueBrain> | Chris82: I have nothing against people who use Windows, I ust wish them good luck keeping it clean ;) |
| 04:51 | <Biff> | Chris82: so you propose that Windows is more secure then a Linux-based operating system? |
| 04:51 | <Sionide> | Chris82, you're *not* going to win this... |
| 04:51 | <Noldo> | Biff: now you are toning he down |
| 04:51 | <Noldo> | *him |
| 04:52 | <Chris82> | Depends on the user. If you're a computer noob a default Win Vista install is at least at a comparable level like Debian for example. |
| 04:52 | <Chris82> | And 99% of all computer users are noobs in my opinion. |
| 04:52 | <Rubidium> | Chris82: so you prefer an OS that no outsider can reviewed properly over an OS that can be reviewed properly by outsiders. |
| 04:52 | <Chris82> | I personally do yes, because I don't believe in all these calling home and NSA registry key theories =D |
| 04:53 | <Biff> | you dont belive in them, but noone can check it out |
| 04:53 | <TrueBrain> | Chris82: but you do suspect Open Source OSes doing that? |
| 04:53 | <Chris82> | I mean the Vista Firewall even blocks the Windows Activation in contrary to the XP Firewall, isn't that a nice improvement :D:D haha |
| 04:53 | <Gekkko> | I laugh at your communist theory. |
| 04:53 | <Sionide> | Chris82, you've got quite a misguided view of open source |
| 04:53 | <Rubidium> | nah, he believes that it is easier to exploit open source OSes than closed source OSes |
| 04:54 | <Gekkko> | I believe no matter what OS you're on, you're gonna get DoS'ed. |
| 04:54 | <Chris82> | That's more my point yes. |
| 04:54 | <Gekkko> | just depends on how your system copes |
| 04:54 | <Sionide> | Chris82, you're misguided, your view is based on nothing except your own assumptions and preconceptions.. |
| 04:54 | <Chris82> | No OS calls home or anywhere unless you got hacked or didn't de-activate all this user experience crap which is not only in Windows. |
| 04:54 | <Sionide> | Gekkko, maybe not if you use Tor? :P |
| 04:55 | <Chris82> | It's based on my experience with a Linux Server for 7 years. |
| 04:55 | <Gekkko> | Sionide: lol go Tor |
| 04:55 | <Gekkko> | but I run a web server |
| 04:55 | |-| | Zavior [~Zavior@d195-237-7-209.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #openttd |
| 04:55 | <Gekkko> | so no Tor for me |
| 04:55 | <Chris82> | Since I am no computer expert I got hacked 2 times! This didn't happen with my Win 2k3 Server yet which I have for about the same time. |
| 04:55 | <TrueBrain> | You can have a webserver and run Tor |
| 04:55 | <Gekkko> | noone try my IP, it's all closed right now |
| 04:55 | |-| | Nickman^Away changed nick to Nickman |
| 04:55 | <Chris82> | Although Windows is much less secure of course. |
| 04:55 | <Gekkko> | TrueBrain: didn't knwo that |
| 04:55 | <Gekkko> | Chris82: tell me again why you are doing BSc? |
| 04:55 | <TrueBrain> | Chris82: haha, that is a bad example to say OpenSource is worse over some Closed Source ;) |
| 04:56 | <Chris82> | Why is it bad? |
| 04:56 | <TrueBrain> | that you just protected your installion poorly ;) |
| 04:56 | <Rubidium> | Chris82: and what was the reason you've got hacked? |
| 04:56 | <Sionide> | Chris82, a friend of mine used to have the same view as you, that it must be easier to hack into open source because you can see the source code, it took me about 10 minutes to convince him otherwise but i'm not wasting my time doing the same for you |
| 04:56 | <Chris82> | Servers are something where Linux and Windows actually share a bigger market |
| 04:56 | <Gekkko> | Sionide: I thought it would be easier to hack too |
| 04:56 | <Gekkko> | but then I thought about it |
| 04:56 | <Sionide> | Gekkko, and saw the light |
| 04:56 | <Gekkko> | my own brain phases an argument |
| 04:56 | <Gekkko> | I <3 my brain |
| 04:56 | <Sionide> | Gekkko, the light of the bulb above your head going on, that is |
| 04:56 | <Gekkko> | it tells me things. |
| 04:56 | <Gekkko> | lol |
| 04:57 | <TrueBrain> | Example: I manage around N windows servers, and 4 * N ^ 2 Linux servers... the Windows servers need to reboot about every month, and are magicly rebooted once in the 3months... the linux servers run for over a year (then I do a kernel update) |
| 04:57 | <Chris82> | Anyway gotta hurry to uni lecture starts in 15 mins :p |
| 04:57 | <Gekkko> | I haven't used Windows at all for 3 weeks |
| 04:57 | <Chris82> | we can continue this later ;) |
| 04:57 | <TrueBrain> | no, we want you to get late :p |
| 04:57 | <TrueBrain> | don't you see? |
| 04:57 | <Gekkko> | I had to use it for gaming :P |
| 04:57 | <Sionide> | Gekkko, 2 years, heh |
| 04:57 | <Gekkko> | Wine was insufficient |
| 04:57 | <Chris82> | haha then you don't know how fast I'm with my bike :p |
| 04:57 | <Chris82> | c ya l8er |
| 04:57 | <TrueBrain> | I want to see ;) |
| 04:57 | <Sionide> | Chris82, with IMglish like that - you'll never win an argument in your life! |
| 04:58 | <Gekkko> | TrueBrain: I love compiling a kernel |
| 04:58 | <Gekkko> | I find it exciting. |
| 04:58 | <TrueBrain> | @kick Sionide blablabla, now that is a nasty thing to say |
| 04:58 | |-| | Sionide kicked [#openttd] DorpsGek [blablabla, now that is a nasty thing to say] |
| 04:58 | <Gekkko> | but I'm a weirdo. |
| 04:58 | |-| | Sionide [sionide@cornflakes.imen.org.uk] has joined #openttd |
| 04:58 | <Sionide> | aw |
| 04:58 | <TrueBrain> | Gekkko: it is nice to compile kernels in general :) Just not nice to reboot all the time on production servers ;) |
| 04:58 | [~] | Sionide keeps quiet |
| 04:58 | <TrueBrain> | clients do not like that ;) |
| 04:58 | <Gekkko> | that's true |
| 04:58 | <Noldo> | Gekkko: I find it exiting too, I never know when my computer reboots from overheating |
| 04:59 | <Gekkko> | I'm about to setup a shell company |
| 04:59 | <Gekkko> | a small one |
| 04:59 | <Gekkko> | Cookie Shell |
| 04:59 | <Gekkko> | xD |
| 04:59 | <Gekkko> | bought teh domain and all. |
| 04:59 | <TheJosh> | csh |
| 04:59 | <TheJosh> | cksh |
| 04:59 | <Gekkko> | lol |
| 04:59 | <eekee> | \o ^^ |
| 04:59 | <TheJosh> | i prefer bash |
| 04:59 | <Gekkko> | the best part is: AMD Duron 800mhz with 386mb ram |
| 04:59 | <Gekkko> | lolol |
| 04:59 | <eekee> | hehe |
| 05:00 | <TheJosh> | i had a computer once with 4mb or ram and a 25mhz processor |
| 05:00 | <TheJosh> | redhat 5, irc server |
| 05:00 | <TheJosh> | also ran samba and apache |
| 05:00 | <eekee> | A whole 25MHz? |
| 05:00 | <TheJosh> | dns name: 'snail' |
| 05:00 | <TrueBrain> | if it is an arm CPU |
| 05:00 | <eekee> | hehe |
| 05:00 | <TrueBrain> | you get a long way |
| 05:00 | <TheJosh> | 386 |
| 05:01 | <TheJosh> | or a 286 cant remember |
| 05:01 | <TrueBrain> | (only stating a MHz doesn't get you anywhere) |
| 05:01 | <eekee> | You won't run Linux on a 286 |
| 05:01 | <TheJosh> | this was linux 2.0 |
| 05:01 | <TheJosh> | if that needed a 386 then it was a 386 |
| 05:02 | <TheJosh> | brb: chickent |
| 05:02 | <TheJosh> | chickents |
| 05:02 | <TheJosh> | chickens...got it! |
| 05:02 | <eekee> | Yeah my first Linux was kernel 2.0.14 on an 8MB 486... 12MHz iirc, although I soom upgraded to 33MHz with VLB |
| 05:02 | <Gekkko> | so |
| 05:02 | <Gekkko> | do you think people will pay to use that system? |
| 05:02 | <Gekkko> | I don't limit what apps can be used |
| 05:03 | <Gekkko> | except nothing illegal |
| 05:03 | <Gekkko> | eggdrop, etc can be used |
| 05:03 | <eekee> | ooh, little bit maybe, ya |
| 05:03 | <peter1138> | did 486s ever come at 12MHz? |
| 05:03 | <Gekkko> | remote X for an extra $5 a month |
| 05:03 | <Gekkko> | :P |
| 05:03 | <eekee> | hehe |
| 05:04 | <eekee> | peter1138: yep. In fact, this had a 15-MHz chip soldered in underneath the PSU, and someone had "upgraded" it with a plug-in 12MHz |
| 05:05 | <hylje> | heh, upgrades |
| 05:05 | <eekee> | hehe |
| 05:07 | <eekee> | I put X on it & stuff segfaulted constantly until I added another 4MB of ram much later, against dire warning to never have more ram than half your swap. It ran fine |
| 05:07 | <TheJosh> | back |
| 05:07 | <eekee> | wb |
| 05:07 | <TheJosh> | 3 doz eggs |
| 05:08 | <Gekkko> | hmm |
| 05:08 | <TheJosh> | average production for a day |
| 05:08 | <Gekkko> | time to attempt ripping cds in Linux |
| 05:08 | <eekee> | ah ^^ |
| 05:08 | <Gekkko> | then I sadly have to reboot into Linux for iTunes. |
| 05:08 | <hylje> | no need to attempt |
| 05:08 | <Gekkko> | oh wait, I've got gtkpod. |
| 05:08 | <Gekkko> | huzzah |
| 05:08 | <TheJosh> | reboot? what does that mean again? i forget |
| 05:08 | <hylje> | dd if=/media/cdrom of=/home/gekko/ripped-cd |
| 05:09 | |-| | Sug [~graeme@88-104-118-19.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com] has joined #openttd |
| 05:09 | <TheJosh> | there are even tools for ripping audio to ogg |
| 05:09 | <hylje> | for the record, articulated tram |
| 05:09 | <eekee> | yay? |
| 05:10 | <Gekkko> | im using grip |
| 05:10 | <Gekkko> | im ripping with lame |
| 05:10 | <Gekkko> | it's for an iPod |
| 05:10 | <Gekkko> | iPods are lame. |
| 05:10 | <TheJosh> | ha ha |
| 05:10 | <eekee> | :) |
| 05:10 | <Gekkko> | I use a Palm PDA for my music |
| 05:10 | <Gekkko> | everything on my PDA is Open Source |
| 05:10 | <hylje> | pda? music? |
| 05:10 | <hylje> | eww |
| 05:10 | <Gekkko> | or freeware |
| 05:10 | <Gekkko> | or pirated. |
| 05:10 | <Gekkko> | lol |
| 05:10 | |-| | Brianetta [~brian@82-39-52-234.cable.ubr03.benw.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #openttd |
| 05:10 | <eekee> | I wish my Zaurus hadn't broken |
| 05:10 | <Gekkko> | eww? |
| 05:10 | <Gekkko> | Palm TX is sexy |
| 05:10 | <Gekkko> | 2gb SD card |
| 05:10 | <TheJosh> | i have a computer for my music |
| 05:10 | <hylje> | i has n9300 |
| 05:10 | <Gekkko> | you cant go wrong |
| 05:10 | <TheJosh> | and an equaliser and 3 amps |
| 05:11 | <TheJosh> | serious home-made soundsystem, |
| 05:11 | <Brianetta> | openttd: command.c:529: DoCommandP: Assertion `res == res2' failed. |
| 05:11 | <Brianetta> | Server has exited |
| 05:11 | <Brianetta> | Boo. |
| 05:11 | <eekee> | TheJosh: nice ^_^ |
| 05:11 | <TheJosh> | i think res equals res2. |
| 05:11 | <hylje> | boo indeed |
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| 05:11 | <TheJosh> | eekee: thanks |
| 05:11 | <dihedral> | Brianetta: that looks nice |
| 05:11 | |-| | geoff_k [~geoff_k@host81-152-90-185.range81-152.btcentralplus.com] has joined #openttd |
| 05:12 | <TheJosh> | one of my speakers died recently though. one of my real good loud bassy ones. works but is crap quality. may need a new driver :( |
| 05:12 | <TheJosh> | there goes $300 to $500 bucks |
| 05:12 | <eekee> | ahh :/ |
| 05:12 | <eekee> | ya |
| 05:12 | <dihedral> | ouch |
| 05:12 | <hylje> | enjoy your sound systems |
| 05:12 | <TheJosh> | ill open it up and check its not just a loose conection or a dead crossover |
| 05:13 | <TheJosh> | when it was working it was awsome though. i tested it recently, 103 db |
| 05:13 | <eekee> | My comp's linked up to an old Toshiba amp that probably dates from the mid-80s. That feeds into speakers which aren't bad, but both the amp & the speakers have a warm somewhat muddy tone so together they aren't very good |
| 05:13 | <TheJosh> | concert volume in a room |
| 05:13 | <TheJosh> | eekee: cool |
| 05:13 | <hylje> | amps dont really obsolete |
| 05:14 | <hylje> | like computers do |
| 05:14 | <TheJosh> | im down to 2 tweeters at the moment till i work out this big speaker |
| 05:14 | <eekee> | ^^ The alternative is my headphones, I got a pair of Sennheiser HD 590s I really like ^^ They have a sharp tone which balances the amp reasonably well |
| 05:14 | <eekee> | eep |
| 05:14 | [~] | geoff_k uses old realistic reciever amp |
| 05:14 | <TheJosh> | hope it works again, its a real nice one |
| 05:14 | <eekee> | hylje: yeah... the big capacitors in them just blow up eventually ^^; |
| 05:14 | <TheJosh> | 12 inch bass driver with a magnet about 15x15x15 cm |
| 05:14 | <eekee> | :O :D |
| 05:15 | <hylje> | cube magnet+ |
| 05:15 | <geoff_k> | with 2 b&w studio monitors which dont actualy belong on it and htey sound too hard with the bass |
| 05:15 | <eekee> | aw mew |
| 05:15 | <geoff_k> | they belog on my nad amp realy but i no used it for some time in the livingroom which also has been used for a while |
| 05:15 | <TheJosh> | hylje: its mega. the amp on number 3 out of 10 things start shaking |
| 05:15 | <Gekkko> | can anyone upload their df to somewhere for me |
| 05:15 | <Gekkko> | I'm too lazy to compile one myself right now |
| 05:16 | <Gekkko> | and busybox is angrying me |
| 05:16 | <TheJosh> | i used to have them under the couch and play halo and the couch would vibrate |
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| 05:16 | <eekee> | :D |
| 05:16 | <eekee> | Oh I HATE busybox lol |
| 05:17 | <Gekkko> | it is crappy as. |
| 05:17 | <Gekkko> | what is df part of? |
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| 05:17 | <Gekkko> | what gnu package |
| 05:18 | <Zr40> | coreutils |
| 05:18 | <Gekkko> | no it's not |
| 05:18 | <eekee> | I got my Z & I was all like, "Flipping heck, I had bash 2.0 & a FULL set of tools on an 8MB, 12MHz 486 and they worked FINE, & this thing has 16MB & a 166MHz ARM, and I'm stuck with this busybox crap??? |
| 05:18 | <Zr40> | output of df --help: |
| 05:18 | <Zr40> | Report bugs to <bug-coreutils@gnu.org>. |
| 05:18 | <Gekkko> | but I compiled coreutils |
| 05:18 | <Gekkko> | it wasnt in it |
| 05:18 | <Zr40> | so yes, it is |
| 05:19 | <Zr40> | which version? |
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| 05:19 | <Gekkko> | 6.9 |
| 05:19 | <Zr40> | I have 6.7 |
| 05:19 | <peter1138> | eekee: linux is certainly bloated these days :( |
| 05:19 | <Zr40> | Gekkko: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coreutils |
| 05:20 | <Zr40> | list contains df :) |
| 05:20 | <TheJosh> | you can always use LFS and then you can choose how bloated you want to make it |
| 05:20 | <eekee> | peter1138: I know. They put Gtk+ 2.0 in PDAs & apps take forever to start. It's horrible! |
| 05:20 | <geoff_k> | its bloated if you use ubuntu, i use slackware its not at all bloated runs well |
| 05:20 | <eekee> | TheJosh: I was gonna LFS my PDA. Never got round to it :J |
| 05:20 | <eekee> | $ gaze from `which df` |
| 05:20 | <eekee> | coreutils-5.94:/bin/df |
| 05:20 | <eekee> | coreutils-6.4:/bin/df |
| 05:20 | <Gekkko> | Zr40: I know |
| 05:20 | <Gekkko> | eekee: wht kiind of PDA |
| 05:20 | <TheJosh> | i started LFS but i got bored |
| 05:21 | <TheJosh> | and frustrated |
| 05:21 | <eekee> | Gekko Zaurus SL-5500, the bottom-line Zaurus, near-enough |
| 05:21 | [~] | SmatZ <-- Gentoo |
| 05:21 | |-| | Smoky555 [~Miranda@80.69.148.14] has joined #openttd |
| 05:21 | <TheJosh> | i put gentoo on a machine i made for my sisters |
| 05:21 | <TheJosh> | they wanted windows but i have no money |
| 05:22 | <SmatZ> | I tried LFS, but Gentoo sems easier to handle |
| 05:22 | <TheJosh> | Gentoo is good |
| 05:22 | <TheJosh> | plenty of control, but a heap easier than LFS |
| 05:22 | <eekee> | I LFS's from the old mini-howto, & from the sources on aSUSE dvd-rom because I didn't have internet, but eventually I got very frustrated. Used Gentoo for a bit & then went to Source Mage |
| 05:23 | <Gekkko> | Zr40: it wouldnt copy because "Text file busy" |
| 05:23 | <Gekkko> | so I rmed half of /bin |
| 05:23 | <Gekkko> | that fixed that |
| 05:23 | <eekee> | haha! |
| 05:23 | <Zr40> | Gekkko: "Text file busy"? I've never heard of that error. |
| 05:24 | <Zr40> | but even so, Linux allows deletion of in-use files |
| 05:24 | <Gekkko> | I love that |
| 05:24 | <SmatZ> | :-D |
| 05:24 | <Gekkko> | also it hotswaps files |
| 05:24 | <Gekkko> | I changed irssi and it didnt log me out |
| 05:24 | <Gekkko> | I was like WTF?! |
| 05:24 | <eekee> | I think I might have had that error once. Prolly deleting something in-use on a vfat fs |
| 05:24 | <eekee> | hehe |
| 05:24 | <Zr40> | Gekkko: that's what I said :) |
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| 05:25 | <Zr40> | but the running irssi isn't magically updated without restarting it |
| 05:25 | <eekee> | I do remember once beign unable to delete an in-use binary on an ext2 fs. That was wierd |
| 05:26 | <Zr40> | eekee: perhaps it was locked in a weird way. |
| 05:26 | <eekee> | ya guess so |
| 05:26 | <Zr40> | eekee: next time that happens, try lsof | grep filename |
| 05:26 | <Zr40> | replace filename, of course |
| 05:26 | <Caemyr> | eekee: the slowest 486 was 33mhz |
| 05:26 | <Caemyr> | 486sx |
| 05:26 | <eekee> | never had much luck with lsof, but ty |
| 05:27 | <Caemyr> | no math coprocessor |
| 05:27 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: truelight * r10233 /trunk/src/blitter/8bpp_optimized.cpp: -Fix: 8bpp-optimized encoder fucked up if 255+ pixels in a row were non-transparent (tnx boekabart) |
| 05:27 | <eekee> | Caemyr: Maybe that was the first one they brought out, but you're neglecting budget ones |
| 05:27 | <Caemyr> | and linux cant run 286 as this cpu is unable to run in protected mode |
| 05:27 | <Caemyr> | eekee: nope |
| 05:28 | <TheJosh> | there must be a way...a lot of source hacking |
| 05:28 | <Caemyr> | 286 was 8-16 mhz |
| 05:28 | <SmatZ> | Caemyr: I have 486SX @ 25MHz |
| 05:28 | <Caemyr> | downgraded |
| 05:28 | <TheJosh> | the programmign ethos: "Hack it till it works" |
| 05:28 | <eekee> | Caemyr: oh.. fook, I not only had 12 & 15 (or was it 16) MHz 486s, but I had and knew of many 25MHz ones. Check your facts :) |
| 05:28 | <Caemyr> | ? |
| 05:28 | <TheJosh> | while (broken) { hackIt(); } |
| 05:28 | <eekee> | TheJosh: :D |
| 05:28 | <Zr40> | s/broken/true/ |
| 05:29 | <SmatZ> | :) |
| 05:29 | <eekee> | heheee |
| 05:29 | <Caemyr> | look, 386 were 16-40mhz |
| 05:29 | <eekee> | and? |
| 05:29 | <Gekkko> | GAH wtf |
| 05:29 | <Gekkko> | it mounted my ipod with trunticated filenames |
| 05:29 | <Gekkko> | lolol~1 crap |
| 05:29 | <Gekkko> | how do i fix thi |
| 05:29 | <eekee> | bah |
| 05:29 | <Gekkko> | s |
| 05:29 | <Caemyr> | and 486 was the next gen |
| 05:29 | <eekee> | and???? |
| 05:29 | <Zr40> | Gekkko: fat filesystem? |
| 05:30 | <Gekkko> | fat32 |
| 05:30 | <Gekkko> | should i precify that fact |
| 05:30 | <TheJosh> | tell it vfat |
| 05:30 | <Gekkko> | k |
| 05:30 | <TheJosh> | not msdos |
| 05:30 | <Gekkko> | now it font let me unmount |
| 05:30 | <Gekkko> | damn crappy crap apple |
| 05:30 | <TheJosh> | umount <dev> |
| 05:30 | <Zr40> | Gekkko: are you sure you mounted it as vfat as TheJosh says? only vfat supports long file names |
| 05:30 | <TheJosh> | mount <dev> -t vfat |
| 05:30 | <eekee> | Caemyr: stop working things out & check your facts. There is no logical accounting for marketting decisions, so that's the only way! |
| 05:30 | <Zr40> | Gekkko: blame microsoft, not apple |
| 05:30 | <Gekkko> | Zr40: i just said mount |
| 05:30 | <Caemyr> | 25 mhz yeah |
| 05:30 | <Gekkko> | Zr40: iPod = Apple |
| 05:30 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: truelight * r10234 /trunk/src/blitter/8bpp_optimized.cpp: -Fix r10233: make peter1138 happy |
| 05:30 | <Caemyr> | possible |
| 05:30 | <Zr40> | Gekkko: linux picks the first working filesystem |
| 05:30 | <Gekkko> | vfat = MS |
| 05:30 | <Caemyr> | but 16? |
| 05:30 | <Noldo> | :D nice commit message |
| 05:31 | <TheJosh> | vfat is fat16/32 + long filenames |
| 05:31 | <Caemyr> | a 486 mobo wouldn`t work on such fsb |
| 05:31 | <TheJosh> | msdos is the same but not longfilenames |
| 05:31 | <Zr40> | Gekkko: if you use the iPod on Windows, it's formatted as fat32 |
| 05:31 | <Gekkko> | GAH |
| 05:31 | <Gekkko> | it wont let me umount |
| 05:31 | <Gekkko> | even when i unplugged the ipod |
| 05:31 | <Gekkko> | "device busy" |
| 05:31 | <Gekkko> | -f |
| 05:31 | <TheJosh> | format it ext3 |
| 05:31 | <SmatZ> | http://www.cpu-world.com/info/id/Intel-80486-identification.html |
| 05:31 | <TheJosh> | close itunes |
| 05:31 | <Gekkko> | umount: forced umount of /dev/sdg2 failed! |
| 05:31 | <Zr40> | if you use it on Macs, it's formatted as hfs+ |
| 05:31 | <Caemyr> | well nvm |
| 05:31 | <Zr40> | TheJosh: the ipod doesn't support that :) |
| 05:31 | <TheJosh> | hack it till it works |
| 05:31 | <Gekkko> | Zr40: yes it does |
| 05:31 | <Gekkko> | iPodLinux |
| 05:31 | <eekee> | *shrug* No acounting for marketting folk :) Do remember though, that a 15 or 16MHz 486 would be about as fast, internally, as a 33MHz 386. I dont' think the average user cared that the bus would b slower, lol |
| 05:32 | <Zr40> | so it becomes an expensive storage medium |
| 05:32 | <Caemyr> | i surrender |
| 05:32 | <eekee> | :) |
| 05:32 | <Gekkko> | ill return |
| 05:32 | <Gekkko> | reboot |
| 05:32 | <Gekkko> | because it wont umount |
| 05:32 | <Zr40> | Gekkko: what does dmesg say? |
| 05:32 | <Gekkko> | unless someone has an idea |
| 05:32 | <Gekkko> | how to really force it |
| 05:32 | <TheJosh> | unplug it |
| 05:32 | <Gekkko> | nothing of interest |
| 05:32 | <Gekkko> | TheJosh: I did |
| 05:32 | <Gekkko> | still wont umount |
| 05:32 | <eekee> | umount -f |
| 05:33 | <Gekkko> | i did |
| 05:33 | <TheJosh> | you cant unmount a removed volume |
| 05:33 | <Zr40> | umount -f *before* unplugging :) |
| 05:33 | <Gekkko> | I DID |
| 05:33 | <Gekkko> | i did it all |
| 05:33 | <Gekkko> | lol |
| 05:33 | <TheJosh> | did you mount as root? |
| 05:33 | <Gekkko> | ye |
| 05:33 | <Gekkko> | umount as root? |
| 05:33 | <Gekkko> | ye |
| 05:33 | <TheJosh> | restart |
| 05:33 | <Gekkko> | gah |
| 05:33 | <SmatZ> | eekee: some of those UMC 80486 |
| 05:33 | <Gekkko> | that should never be an option |
| 05:33 | <TheJosh> | i know its non-linux but it works |
| 05:33 | <eekee> | I really hate when stuff won't umount |
| 05:33 | <TheJosh> | modifiy mtab |
| 05:33 | <Gekkko> | how so |
| 05:33 | <eekee> | yeah, only thing you have to restart for, lol |
| 05:33 | <TheJosh> | remove the line then its not mounted |
| 05:33 | <Zr40> | TheJosh: that doesn't solve it |
| 05:33 | <TheJosh> | ung |
| 05:34 | <TheJosh> | HACK |
| 05:34 | <Zr40> | TheJosh: especially on current kernels |
| 05:34 | <Gekkko> | lol TheJosh I did |
| 05:34 | <Gekkko> | lets try now |
| 05:34 | <Zr40> | as the kernel keeps an internal state of mount points |
| 05:34 | <eekee> | SmatZ: yeah, I think these chips were UMC... |
| 05:34 | <Gekkko> | ROFL |
| 05:34 | <Gekkko> | plugging the ipod into this pc reset it |
| 05:34 | <Zr40> | mtab is for backward compatibility |
| 05:34 | <eekee> | haha |
| 05:34 | <Gekkko> | Zr40: this is one backward linux |
| 05:34 | <eekee> | mtab has some info that /proc/mounts doesn't |
| 05:35 | <Zr40> | Gekkko: I mean, for really old linuxes |
| 05:35 | <Gekkko> | I know. |
| 05:35 | <Gekkko> | it worked though |
| 05:35 | <Gekkko> | yay |
| 05:35 | <Zr40> | eekee: such as? |
| 05:35 | <Gekkko> | GAHGAHGAH |
| 05:35 | <Gekkko> | now gtkpod segfaults |
| 05:35 | <Gekkko> | I hate life. |
| 05:35 | <TheJosh> | restart dammit |
| 05:36 | <Gekkko> | I hate this |
| 05:36 | <Gekkko> | lol |
| 05:36 | <Gekkko> | brb |
| 05:36 | |-| | Gekkko [~Brendan@CPE-58-168-99-207.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 3.2.6 Anomalies http://www.kvirc.net/] |
| 05:36 | <TheJosh> | or go to runlevel 1 then go back again |
| 05:36 | <Zr40> | that doesn't solve problems in the kernel |
| 05:36 | <Chris82> | back =D |
| 05:36 | <eekee> | Zr40: errrrr.. less than it used to :D but try this: cat /proc/mounts ; echo ; cat /etc/mtab |
| 05:36 | <Chris82> | I see your open source software works well today *g* |
| 05:37 | <Chris82> | I said I am quick on the bike :p |
| 05:37 | <eekee> | Zr40: also remember that /etc/mtab is POSIX, /proc/mounts isn't. The Un*x world is not confined to Linux |
| 05:37 | <Zr40> | eekee: what I said, compatibility |
| 05:37 | <eekee> | yeah |
| 05:37 | <Caemyr> | lawl |
| 05:37 | <Zr40> | eekee: the only difference I see is on the usbfs line in mtab |
| 05:37 | <Chris82> | This whole discussion is actually the bigger reason for me not to use Linux |
| 05:37 | <Zr40> | and usbfs is a linux thing :) |
| 05:38 | <Chris82> | if you already have problems with this what do you think would all the average users do? |
| 05:38 | <Caemyr> | Chris82: you spawned this discussion:P |
| 05:38 | <Chris82> | actually no |
| 05:38 | <Chris82> | well maybe a little |
| 05:38 | <Sionide> | Chris82, i don't have problems with mine.. mainly because i don't tinker with it an awful lot, so it doesn't break.. windows breaks if you tinker with it. |
| 05:38 | <Caemyr> | Windows users also seek help |
| 05:38 | <Chris82> | all I said was saying that I am Windows fanatic but compile OTTD myself instead of downloading bins :D |
| 05:38 | <Caemyr> | but they rarely can describe their problem properly |
| 05:38 | <Caemyr> | yeah |
| 05:38 | <eekee> | Chris82: eh, we didn't used to have problems before the Cult of the New got involved, and personally I blame megacorps like Microsoft fot the cult of the new |
| 05:39 | |-| | |Gekkko| [~Brendan@CPE-58-168-99-207.nsw.bigpond.net.au] has joined #openttd |
| 05:39 | <Caemyr> | then said that you wouldn`t use open source OS |
| 05:39 | |-| | |Gekkko| changed nick to Gekkko |
| 05:39 | <Gekkko> | hey hey |
| 05:39 | <Caemyr> | or any vital oss app |
| 05:39 | <Caemyr> | :) |
| 05:39 | [~] | Rubidium has much more problems and issues getting Windows to compile OpenTTD properly than Linux |
| 05:39 | <Chris82> | yeah I know but what's wrong with it, some people don't use open source os'es, other's do :D |
| 05:39 | <eekee> | I get a bit nervous when people say "compatibility for older linuxes" as if a feature which has worked well since the beginning of UN*X is going away D: |
| 05:39 | <Chris82> | luckily we live in a free world where neither Windows nore Linux is forced on us |
| 05:39 | <eekee> | :D |
| 05:39 | <Caemyr> | lawl |
| 05:40 | <Sionide> | Chris82, that's a joke... surely? |
| 05:40 | <Gekkko> | omg it's Chris82 again |
| 05:40 | <Rubidium> | so, if "amount of problems someone has with an OS" is a manner to determine whether noobs have issues with it, then noobs have more issues with windows than with linux |
| 05:40 | <Chris82> | haha :D |
| 05:40 | <Chris82> | yeah my lecture didn't take as long as I thought |
| 05:40 | <Caemyr> | unless you buy a pc and they force you to have windows with it |
| 05:40 | <Gekkko> | 5 minutes? |
| 05:40 | <Gekkko> | you need to spend time studying |
| 05:40 | <Gekkko> | >_> |
| 05:40 | <Caemyr> | for which you pay no matter you want it or not;P |
| 05:40 | <Gekkko> | Chris82: you're German |
| 05:40 | <Chris82> | yes almost |
| 05:40 | <eekee> | I know a guy who quit his job because after acheiving impressive levels of efficiency with Linux, his boss suddenly forced Windows onto him |
| 05:41 | <Caemyr> | if not directly, then it`s included in the rig`s price |
| 05:41 | <eekee> | Caemyr: there's instructions for gettign the money back on your Windows licence, somewhere ont he web :) |
| 05:41 | <Chris82> | yeah a Dell with Windows the Win licence costs like 20 or 30 USD |
| 05:41 | <Caemyr> | lawl |
| 05:41 | <Chris82> | that's really not much |
| 05:41 | <Caemyr> | eekee: look at Vista |
| 05:41 | <Sionide> | Chris82, free software isn't just about the price |
| 05:41 | <eekee> | Caemyr: please don't make me ;.; |
| 05:42 | <Caemyr> | changing the component required you to purchase license again:P |
| 05:42 | <Chris82> | and as I said I also have nothing against open source in general |
| 05:42 | <Gekkko> | eekee: there is?! |
| 05:42 | <Caemyr> | yes |
| 05:42 | <Gekkko> | I want a refund. |
| 05:42 | <Chris82> | little nifty tools, games like OpenTTD they are awesome |
| 05:42 | <Caemyr> | you have:) |
| 05:42 | <Gekkko> | and I'll still use a pirated product. |
| 05:42 | <Gekkko> | lol |
| 05:42 | <Caemyr> | you state that opensource applications are easier to hack:) |
| 05:42 | <Chris82> | but an os, or an anti virus tool I want that closed source |
| 05:42 | <eekee> | Caemyr: I knooooow ;,,,,,; ;,,,,,,; I want to forget such evils exist in the world, pleeeeease!!!!! |
| 05:42 | <Caemyr> | which is 'complete bs' |
| 05:42 | <Caemyr> | NO! |
| 05:42 | <Gekkko> | Don't go there girlfriend |
| 05:42 | <Sionide> | Chris82, i'll say it again heh, your view is misguided |
| 05:42 | <Caemyr> | YOU MUST NOT |
| 05:42 | [~] | Gekkko clicks fingers 3 times. |
| 05:42 | <Caemyr> | lawl |
| 05:42 | <Chris82> | misguided by who? |
| 05:43 | <eekee> | Chris82: then you're either an idiot or you've never heard of a decompiler |
| 05:43 | |-| | Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-89-217-30-51.adslplus.ch] has joined #openttd |
| 05:43 | <Caemyr> | i can see loads of pages |
| 05:43 | <Sionide> | Chris82, by your own assumptions and preconceptions |
| 05:43 | <Caemyr> | with WIN exploits |
| 05:43 | <Chris82> | I just speak from what I experienced with a Linux server for 7 years and then what I experienced with a Windows server for 6 years |
| 05:43 | <Caemyr> | why there arent such for linux? |
| 05:43 | <Gekkko> | gah gtkpod died. |
| 05:43 | <Gekkko> | f**k you gtkpod |
| 05:43 | <Chris82> | if there wouldn't be Linux exploits, there would be no hacked servers |
| 05:43 | <Gekkko> | roflsauce. |
| 05:43 | <Caemyr> | you argue in cycles |
| 05:43 | <Sionide> | Chris82, you're not differentiating between "Linux" and "any other free software applications you might run" |
| 05:44 | <Chris82> | many are from PHP and such things, but still there are Linux stand alone servers hacked as well |
| 05:44 | <Rubidium> | Chris82: so, you got hacked twice with the Linux server? How were you hacked remains a valid question on whether the OS is to blame or the user or another application |
| 05:44 | <Gekkko> | if there wouldn't be Windows exploits, microsoft.com wouldn't get DoS'd so much |
| 05:44 | <Sionide> | Chris82, there are still windows stand alone server hacked as well... |
| 05:44 | <Chris82> | the root account was hacked because a logging process was faulty |
| 05:44 | <Gekkko> | Port sniffing doesnt discriminate OS |
| 05:44 | <Chris82> | I don't know the exact happenings |
| 05:44 | <Caemyr> | no matter if Linux or Windows |
| 05:44 | <Chris82> | if I would have known about the "hole" I would have closed it |
| 05:44 | <Sionide> | Chris82, so you didn't install security upgrades? |
| 05:45 | <Caemyr> | around 90% of hacking is successfull due to user being a noob |
| 05:45 | <geoff_k> | its not aways the OS's fault soemone hacks it, its offen down to poor admin skills by the user for which im no expert for sure |
| 05:45 | <Chris82> | I had an auto update function running |
| 05:45 | <Chris82> | I have no time remoting all day long just to see if there are any security updates |
| 05:45 | <Caemyr> | and leaving a gate wide open to their system |
| 05:45 | <Chris82> | yes I agree with that, most hacked servers are due to bad admin skills |
| 05:45 | <Chris82> | and not necessarily the OSes fault |
| 05:45 |
