| --- | Log | opened Tue Jun 19 00:00:14 2007 |
| 00:01 | |-| | Alanin changed nick to alanin |
| 00:07 | <Phazorx> | weird |
| 00:07 | <Phazorx> | peter1138: ? |
| 00:08 | <Phazorx> | hash optimization seems to have great performance difference betwee number of engines in a train |
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| 00:50 | <XeryusTC> | morning |
| 01:04 | <Noldo> | morning |
| 01:07 | <@peter1138> | hmm? |
| 01:09 | <Phazorx> | peter1138: i think it was my bad |
| 01:09 | <Phazorx> | still investigating |
| 01:09 | <Phazorx> | morning btw |
| 01:09 | <@peter1138> | "performance difference" doesn't mean much |
| 01:10 | <Phazorx> | peter1138: i doungraded chimeras to lev3 |
| 01:10 | <Phazorx> | after that noticed that ttd started eating twice as much cpu |
| 01:10 | <Phazorx> | saved reloaded |
| 01:10 | <Phazorx> | and the effect was gone |
| 01:11 | <Phazorx> | since i dont feel like adding engines to 900 trains again - trying to use alt methods to figure out reason for spike |
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| 02:21 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: celestar * r10213 /branches/gamebalance/ (163 files in 15 dirs): [gamebalance] -Sync: r10100:10200 from trunk |
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| 03:23 | <DJGummikuh> | hey |
| 03:24 | <DJGummikuh> | I just emerged openttd with timidity support (gentoo linux) because I wanted to try out the music... nevertheless, when I try to start the music, nothing happens.. |
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| 03:28 | <Gekkko> | my PDA is sexeh |
| 03:34 | <@peter1138> | timidity sucks either way ;p |
| 03:38 | <Gekkko> | you're mocking my PDA! |
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| 03:45 | <DJGummikuh> | peter1138: is there any other way ot play the music? |
| 03:45 | <DJGummikuh> | and where is the music located anyways? I searched the game folder but found no music.. |
| 03:45 | <DJGummikuh> | or is it wrapped inside a grf file? |
| 03:46 | <@peter1138> | it should be in the gm folder |
| 03:46 | <@peter1138> | next to data |
| 03:47 | <DJGummikuh> | I have data lang scenario scripts |
| 03:47 | <stillunknown> | Phazorx: performance difference how? |
| 03:47 | <DJGummikuh> | :( |
| 03:48 | <Haos> | DJGummikuh: you need music files from original game |
| 03:49 | |-| | Haos changed nick to Caemyr |
| 03:50 | <Phazorx> | stillunknown: twice what it was before |
| 03:50 | <DJGummikuh> | hm |
| 03:50 | <Phazorx> | but it seems to be somewhat random |
| 03:50 | <Phazorx> | i can not reproduce it |
| 03:50 | <Phazorx> | and save after reloading works fine |
| 03:52 | <stillunknown> | Why are you certain "this" is the cause? |
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| 03:53 | <Phazorx> | not certain |
| 03:53 | <stillunknown> | You have no savegame that reproduces it? |
| 03:54 | <Phazorx> | but actio sequence was - everything fine > park 900 trains > replace/add engines manually > unpark all trains |
| 03:54 | <Phazorx> | amount of "train tiles" is same |
| 03:54 | <Phazorx> | only thing changed is balanace between engines and cars |
| 03:55 | <Phazorx> | i have save game before downgrade |
| 03:55 | <Phazorx> | and after |
| 03:55 | <stillunknown> | You will need to find a simpler way to reproduce it, since this is rather vague. |
| 03:55 | <Phazorx> | however i only experienced problem after the change during same session |
| 03:55 | <Phazorx> | well i did similar things before - there was 3 major redesignns on that game |
| 03:56 | <Phazorx> | every time trains were parked and then released later |
| 03:56 | <Phazorx> | this time i also fiddled with engines/cars |
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| 04:00 | <stillunknown> | So you replaced a lot of first engines? |
| 04:03 | <dihedral> | my i bother someone and ask for a little help? |
| 04:03 | <dihedral> | *may |
| 04:03 | <dihedral> | regarding some fetched data with the phplib |
| 04:03 | <valhallasw> | don't ask to ask, ask ;) |
| 04:03 | <stillunknown> | Don't ask to ask, just ask. |
| 04:04 | <mic> | :) |
| 04:04 | <dihedral> | lol |
| 04:04 | <dihedral> | http://joshua.dihedral.de/openttdlib |
| 04:04 | <dihedral> | the file query.php is using openttd.class.php to query my Fair Play #3 server |
| 04:04 | <Phazorx> | stillunknown: 1sr engines were autoreplaces |
| 04:04 | <dihedral> | some information is slightly offset !! |
| 04:04 | <Phazorx> | i added missing ones |
| 04:05 | <Gekkko> | I want to make Australian Tram grfs |
| 04:06 | <dihedral> | details: company_value for "risto Transport" is already incorrect |
| 04:06 | <dihedral> | in game data is slightly heigher |
| 04:06 | <DJGummikuh> | dihedral: not realtime I assume |
| 04:07 | <dihedral> | udp connection is established as soon as you open query.php |
| 04:07 | <dihedral> | sending OTTD_PACKET_UDP_CLIENT_DETAIL_INFO |
| 04:07 | <dihedral> | ie 2 |
| 04:07 | <dihedral> | real time data :-) |
| 04:08 | <dihedral> | and if you look at "performance_history" in the output, that should be a 477 |
| 04:09 | <dihedral> | feel free to open up 0.5.2 and check the data fetched in game for openttd.dihedral.de:27020 |
| 04:12 | <dihedral> | sorted |
| 04:12 | <dihedral> | :-) |
| 04:12 | <dihedral> | but thanks for the help |
| 04:12 | <dihedral> | at least to some extent |
| 04:14 | <dihedral> | problem was in RecvUint64 |
| 04:14 | <dihedral> | as in $res += ord($packet['data'][$packet['pos']++]) << 64; does not belong there :-) |
| 04:14 | <@peter1138> | heh |
| 04:15 | <@peter1138> | RecvUint64: i = RecvUint32; i |= RecvUint32 << 32; |
| 04:16 | <mic> | hello again :) i made a very use small and useful patch for openttd |
| 04:16 | <mic> | it is called "build *under* slopes" |
| 04:16 | <DJGummikuh> | mic: ? |
| 04:17 | <dihedral> | i thought slopes went the other way around |
| 04:17 | <mic> | it let remove or create built-on-slope cells then it is necessary |
| 04:18 | <mic> | without need to delete the cell itself |
| 04:18 | <hylje> | mic: screenshots please |
| 04:19 | <DJGummikuh> | mic: cool |
| 04:19 | <DJGummikuh> | so you can do landwork with roads and trainstuff on it? |
| 04:20 | <mic> | a little less :) you can create/modify/delete builT-on-slope cell if the cell allows |
| 04:20 | <mic> | have you encountered situations then somebody used sloped rails and you can not build tunnel under him? |
| 04:21 | <DJGummikuh> | mic: a dozen times |
| 04:21 | <DJGummikuh> | if that patch solves it thats cool :) |
| 04:21 | <mic> | (or you have dig down more or buiild bridge) |
| 04:21 | <mic> | this patch simply lets you remove the slope |
| 04:22 | <stillunknown> | But what happens to the stuff on top of that slope? |
| 04:22 | <mic> | have you encountered situation then u need to raise/lower 1 cell inside city? |
| 04:22 | <XeryusTC> | mic: so you can terraform under tiles that have foundations on them? |
| 04:22 | <mic> | or want tunnel inside city for example |
| 04:23 | <DJGummikuh> | XeryusTC: sounds that way |
| 04:23 | <mic> | with this patch you need only 1 buildings instead of many buildings to destroy |
| 04:23 | <DJGummikuh> | mic: two I woudl assume |
| 04:23 | <mic> | right right ) |
| 04:23 | <DJGummikuh> | you need the tunnel and the slope downards to it |
| 04:23 | <mic> | XeryusTC: you can create/modify/delete foundation, without changing cell itself, if cell allows it :) |
| 04:24 | <hylje> | ie. no floating cells |
| 04:24 | <mic> | DJGummikuh: right :) |
| 04:24 | <XeryusTC> | mic: ah, that was implemented before, but DV deleted it because it didnt work half of the time IIRC |
| 04:27 | <mic> | i tested it, work correct, i hope always :) |
| 04:27 | <@peter1138> | ahh, like ttdpatch's "autoslope" |
| 04:27 | <@peter1138> | screenshots? :D |
| 04:28 | <mic> | i will try to make one ) |
| 04:28 | <@peter1138> | ^S isn't that hard ;) |
| 04:28 | <dihedral> | it works :-D |
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| 04:41 | <dihedral> | is TrueBrain or Rubidium around? |
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| 04:57 | <mic> | http://img399.imageshack.us/my.php?image=59671189it2.png http://img207.imageshack.us/my.php?image=34441118sd1.png http://img399.imageshack.us/my.php?image=13644750wu1.png http://img207.imageshack.us/my.php?image=61477328qz5.png |
| 04:57 | <mic> | 2x2 screenshots |
| 04:58 | <hylje> | great |
| 04:58 | <Thomas[NL]> | nice |
| 04:59 | <hylje> | so you can push industries to foundations too? |
| 04:59 | <hylje> | thats way great |
| 04:59 | <Thomas[NL]> | what rockground graphic is that? |
| 05:00 | <Thomas[NL]> | oh its the original :P |
| 05:01 | <mic> | can push down even transmitters ) |
| 05:01 | <mic> | but only 1 cell, for foundation |
| 05:02 | <mic> | useful in cities, you don't need to buldorize many building if you need to lower land somethere |
| 05:02 | <hylje> | yes |
| 05:02 | <XeryusTC> | ah yes, the old stuff that DV removed |
| 05:02 | <XeryusTC> | very usefull feature :) |
| 05:05 | <Thomas[NL]> | is it similar to ttdpatch's AutoSlope? |
| 05:05 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | funny that the two first pictures are "backwards" ;) |
| 05:05 | <XeryusTC> | Thomas[NL]: seems not |
| 05:06 | <XeryusTC> | it just allows you to make/remove foundations by terrafomring |
| 05:06 | <Thomas[NL]> | I never played ttdpatch with autoslope, how is it different? |
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| 05:07 | <XeryusTC> | autoslope allows you to terraform everywhere and industries etc just move along with the hills IIRC |
| 05:07 | <XeryusTC> | http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=autoslope |
| 05:07 | <hylje> | industries? |
| 05:07 | <XeryusTC> | oh, it's the same :P |
| 05:08 | <XeryusTC> | confused with some other patch feature |
| 05:08 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | you're not supposed to actually move existing buildings |
| 05:08 | <Thomas[NL]> | any known bugs mic? |
| 05:09 | <@peter1138> | assuming it doesn't let you actually change the height of what's on the tile, i need a patch ;) |
| 05:11 | <mic> | have not tested a lot but i fixed all that i have seen (and i have seen a lot:) |
| 05:11 | <mic> | i does not change height ) but it was changing in first edit ) |
| 05:11 | <mic> | could flood towns and industries |
| 05:11 | <@peter1138> | heh |
| 05:12 | <mic> | if you lower factory with drag-lower it will usually keep 3 peeks on which factory will stand |
| 05:13 | <mic> | if factory is 3 blocks of 2x2 |
| 05:13 | <hylje> | can all foundations be undoed? |
| 05:13 | <mic> | no of course ) |
| 05:13 | <mic> | undoed - lowered? |
| 05:13 | <hylje> | i mean changed back |
| 05:13 | <mic> | yes :) |
| 05:14 | <mic> | can raise it all ban if you need |
| 05:14 | <@peter1138> | including the current terraforming bugs? heh |
| 05:14 | <mic> | ban->all :) |
| 05:14 | <@peter1138> | (you can terraform up but not down again in some places) |
| 05:14 | <mic> | dont know how i typed this ) |
| 05:14 | <mic> | is it rails or not? |
| 05:15 | <mic> | (shit, "ban->back":) |
| 05:15 | <mic> | it was bugs with rails or with not rails? |
| 05:15 | <@peter1138> | yes, rails |
| 05:15 | <@peter1138> | on half/steep slopes |
| 05:18 | <mic> | i tested rails toom hope no bugs left :) |
| 05:19 | <mic> | http://img399.imageshack.us/my.php?image=92418901rp6.png http://img399.imageshack.us/my.php?image=49088538fr6.png |
| 05:19 | <mic> | this is tunnel in city |
| 05:19 | <@peter1138> | nice |
| 05:19 | <@peter1138> | may i see the patch? |
| 05:20 | <mic> | one moment ) |
| 05:20 | <@peter1138> | shame it's against 0.5.2 |
| 05:20 | <@peter1138> | but never mind |
| 05:20 | <mic> | i should take... nightly? |
| 05:21 | <hylje> | latest trunk |
| 05:21 | <@peter1138> | latest trunk is best |
| 05:22 | <XeryusTC> | there's a huge difference between .5.2 and latest trunk IIRC |
| 05:23 | <Phazorx> | cpu 95% |
| 05:23 | <Phazorx> | :( |
| 05:23 | <hylje> | your download is stuck? |
| 05:23 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | better than 105% :) |
| 05:23 | <@peter1138> | mic: make the patch anyway? :) |
| 05:24 | <Phazorx> | download? |
| 05:25 | <oxygene_> | (you can terraform up but not down again in some places) <-- do you mean http://bugs.openttd.org/task/882 ? |
| 05:25 | [~] | Phazorx wants more optimization |
| 05:25 | <@peter1138> | oxygene_: yes |
| 05:25 | <oxygene_> | what about just removing "unsafe slopes" code? |
| 05:25 | <@peter1138> | hehe |
| 05:25 | <@peter1138> | no way :) |
| 05:26 | <oxygene_> | i did it locally and couldn't find anything "unsafe" |
| 05:26 | <oxygene_> | what's the point of it? |
| 05:26 | <@peter1138> | there's always something |
| 05:26 | <@peter1138> | usually some untested combination goes wrong |
| 05:27 | <Rubidium> | peter1138: that code just behaves wrong (it doesn't properly test for unsafeness) |
| 05:27 | <oxygene_> | i tried a lot of combinations =) |
| 05:27 | <@peter1138> | Rubidium: i know, but it does stop some illegal combinations, iirc |
| 05:27 | <oxygene_> | i'd like to see one illegal combination if you can think of one |
| 05:28 | <Rubidium> | I think Tron wanted that the slope of the foundation didn't change, it only wasn't implemented properly |
| 05:28 | <mic> | here the patch goes |
| 05:28 | <mic> | http://slil.ru/24535852 |
| 05:29 | <@peter1138> | yick, nasty downloaders |
| 05:29 | <XeryusTC> | oh, cyrilic |
| 05:29 | <mic> | only 5 secs delay to download ) |
| 05:30 | <Rubidium> | yes, and no way to look at the patch in the browser; need to start an external editor |
| 05:30 | <mic> | it is all forced mime-types ) |
| 05:30 | <@peter1138> | looks small though |
| 05:31 | <@peter1138> | + /* bug: tunnel's exit can destroy rail on slope, |
| 05:31 | <@peter1138> | + if rail has the same direction as the slope */ |
| 05:31 | <@peter1138> | heh |
| 05:31 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | you could just have uploaded it to bugs.openttd.org, probably |
| 05:31 | <mic> | too lazy :) |
| 05:31 | <mic> | simply to type here :) |
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| 05:32 | <@peter1138> | oxygene_: yup, removing the unsafe bit allows you to terraform into tunnels |
| 05:33 | <oxygene_> | as far as i remember there was extra code to check for tunnels (?) |
| 05:33 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | "there is no tunnel" :p |
| 05:33 | <Phazorx> | stillunknown: is it possible to apply your patch on top of curent trunk |
| 05:33 | <Phazorx> | ? |
| 05:35 | <mic> | there bugs with road destruction if it is half-road and it is build on non-steep slope with 1 raised corner. but this is not mine it already exists :) |
| 05:36 | <@peter1138> | half-roads are destroyed all over the place :o |
| 05:36 | <mic> | that is right that i am about ) |
| 05:36 | <@peter1138> | i was confirming it, it's normal, heh |
| 05:36 | <scia> | op some i |
| 05:37 | <mic> | ....with 2 bugs this patch was actually 10 lines :-)) |
| 05:38 | <@peter1138> | heh, typical :) |
| 05:39 | <scia> | hmm, how did i type that... |
| 05:40 | <scia> | ah, a paste |
| 05:40 | <mic> | submit bug with tunnel? |
| 05:42 | <@peter1138> | if ( !IsNewCrappyRail ) |
| 05:42 | <@peter1138> | nice variable names :p |
| 05:44 | <hylje> | :p |
| 05:50 | <mic> | :) |
| 05:51 | <mic> | it is good that i removed some obsences from comments :) |
| 05:53 | <SpComb> | `rgrep fuck /usr/src/kernel-2.4.27-2/ | wc -l` or such |
| 05:53 | <SpComb> | kernel-headers has two |
| 05:54 | <mic> | only two :( |
| 05:54 | <mic> | dont mind ) |
| 05:54 | <stillunknown> | Phazorx: No, and atm i don't see a need to update it. |
| 05:55 | <Phazorx> | stillunknown: i have 900 trains and oven temperature CPU on contrary :) |
| 05:57 | <@peter1138> | is that normal or after you made it "slow down" ? |
| 05:57 | <stillunknown> | Phazorx: provide the savegame, i'll profile it today or tomorrow, then i'll decide. |
| 05:57 | <Phazorx> | peter1138: i added more trains and CPU usage did not grew linearly |
| 05:58 | <stillunknown> | Profiling will reveal the bottleneck. |
| 05:58 | <Phazorx> | and i can not tell anything about normal anymore i tihnk i was mistaken in my calculation since i am trying diff builds and savegame but i dont see same picture as i saw a week ago |
| 05:59 | <stillunknown> | Just provide the savegame, a second opinion is never bad. |
| 06:00 | <Phazorx> | stillunknown: i was trying to make a case on situation vs load study |
| 06:00 | <Phazorx> | aint making sense no more |
| 06:01 | <stillunknown> | Do i have to hit you twice before you'll give me the savegame ;-) |
| 06:01 | <scia> | 13:00:07 < Phazorx> aint making sense no more <-- so it makes sense? |
| 06:01 | <Phazorx> | i am tidiing it up hang on :) |
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| 06:06 | <TheJosh> | hey everyone |
| 06:07 | <Phazorx> | http://openttdcoop.ppcis.org/blog/files/phazorx/SML testcase.sav |
| 06:07 | <oxygene_> | could you point me to a website which describes how to change a sprite? |
| 06:07 | <TheJosh> | I would like to annouce the release of my latest patch, "Loading Indicators" http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=32610 |
| 06:07 | <hylje> | oxygene_: not shorthand, but you need grfcodec and an image editor |
| 06:07 | <oxygene_> | i just need a starting point to google for ;) |
| 06:08 | <Phazorx> | stillunknown: that is the safe for ya |
| 06:08 | <oxygene_> | but grfcodec sounds like one |
| 06:08 | <stillunknown> | Phazorx: url doesn't work |
| 06:08 | <hylje> | stillunknown: theres a space |
| 06:08 | <mic> | peter1138: found some bugs :) will fix. |
| 06:08 | <Phazorx> | http://openttdcoop.ppcis.org/blog/files/phazorx/SML%20testcase.sav |
| 06:08 | <mic> | peter1138: that me do further with this patch? |
| 06:12 | <DJGummikuh> | exit |
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| 06:12 | <Caemyr> | mic: i love this patch already |
| 06:12 | <Caemyr> | it overcomes some of the most pissing things in TTDLX |
| 06:13 | <Caemyr> | especially the second part:P |
| 06:13 | <Caemyr> | i would like to see it in trunk:) |
| 06:13 | <mic> | thanks :) |
| 06:15 | <@peter1138> | yeah |
| 06:16 | <Biff> | TheJosh: very nice |
| 06:16 | <TheJosh> | Biff: thanks |
| 06:16 | <Maedhros> | looks like a pretty nice and clean patch |
| 06:16 | <Maedhros> | i'll have to look over it again when less hungover though ;) |
| 06:17 | <TrueBrain> | morning all! |
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| 06:19 | <TheJosh> | TrueBrain: morning |
| 06:20 | <TheJosh> | Maedhros: after proucing a few crap patches and getting constantly flaming for style, i made sure this one was as perfect as I could before release |
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| 06:22 | <Caemyr> | rotfl |
| 06:22 | <Caemyr> | http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/03/okayzturnleft1.jpg |
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| 06:40 | <mic> | strange, AI is building such shit that any player can't ) |
| 06:41 | <TheJosh> | should be artificial unintellegence |
| 06:41 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | i have seen screenshots of players titled like "worse than AI" |
| 06:42 | <mic> | :)) |
| 06:43 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | "make something idiot proof and someone finds a better idiot" |
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| 06:46 | <Phazorx> | idiot proof, as well as warning labels are counteragents to evolution IMO |
| 06:46 | <mic> | http://img358.imageshack.us/my.php?image=stupidainc4.png |
| 06:47 | <mic> | look that stupid AI just built ) |
| 06:47 | <Thomas[NL]> | my nightly uses the .cfg file of my standard installation where it first used the one in his own bin-directory, is this intended? |
| 06:48 | <Phazorx> | btw, with new .grf configuration, is there a wa to specifyroot for /data ? |
| 06:48 | <Phazorx> | cuz on windows with no symlinks it is a hassle to update grfs |
| 06:50 | <hylje> | Phazorx: xp supports directory symlinks |
| 06:50 | <Thomas[NL]> | first it used /home/***/openttd/bin/openttd.cfg (where I checkout and make latest svn) now it uses /home/***/.openttd./openttd.cfg |
| 06:50 | <Phazorx> | hylje: eh? how ? |
| 06:51 | <Phazorx> | my ln -s doesnt work ehre |
| 06:51 | <hylje> | vista supports proper symlinks |
| 06:51 | <hylje> | junctions. look em up |
| 06:51 | <Phazorx> | actualy i dont think i ever tryed it |
| 06:51 | <Phazorx> | and i do have w32 unixtools |
| 06:52 | [~] | dihedral is happy |
| 06:52 | <hylje> | for the record, FAT supported symlinks but MS decided to use the symlink allocated fields for long filenames |
| 06:52 | <Phazorx> | C:\GAMES\OTTD>ln -s data ../ottd.data |
| 06:52 | <Phazorx> | ln: symbolic links are not supported on this system |
| 06:53 | <Phazorx> | :( |
| 06:54 | <hylje> | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NTFS_junction_point |
| 06:54 | <dihedral> | http://joshua.dihedral.de/openttdlib/query.php |
| 06:54 | <dihedral> | just still need to add the newgrf data :-) |
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| 06:56 | <mic> | is here a easy way to make screenshot of some point on dedicated server? |
| 06:56 | <mic> | some automated way |
| 06:57 | <Phazorx> | after reading that i dont think it is safe to use |
| 06:57 | <ln-> | Phazorx: don't blame me for that. |
| 06:57 | <Phazorx> | so back to my question |
| 06:57 | <Phazorx> | is there a way to specify root of newgrf section somehow? |
| 06:57 | <Phazorx> | ln-: i;m nt to blame, i'm to figure out what can be done to make it back liek ti was ebfore |
| 06:58 | <Phazorx> | and not havign to maintaoin 20 copies of 30mbs of grfs |
| 06:58 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | mic: in 0.5.2, yes, nightly needs special blitter on startup |
| 06:58 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | you can use "scrollto" and "screenshot" commands, i believe |
| 06:58 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | Brianetta used that on his server for a "live webcam" |
| 06:59 | <Phazorx> | really ? |
| 06:59 | <Phazorx> | where did that go then |
| 07:00 | <Phazorx> | hylje: on that note, kidna sat to see vista, seeing the light in 2005 catching up with "ln -s" available in normal OSes for more than 20 years |
| 07:00 | <Phazorx> | make that 30 years actualy |
| 07:01 | <hylje> | its not like MS has boasted on technical superiority for the last 10 years |
| 07:01 | <hylje> | w95 was somewhat like it, though |
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| 07:02 | <mic> | if there is live web can for server, we could write javascript webclient then :) |
| 07:03 | <mic> | *can->cam |
| 07:06 | <dihedral> | hmmm |
| 07:06 | <dihedral> | sounds a little nasty |
| 07:06 | <dihedral> | an applet would probably we a lot better |
| 07:07 | <dihedral> | anyway - the openttdlib only does udp querying |
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| 07:09 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | mic: it's not really "live", he took a screenshot like every 7 minutes |
| 07:09 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | i'm sure there's a thread about it in the forum |
| 07:10 | <dihedral> | there is a thread about a java client, yes |
| 07:11 | <TrueBrain> | too CPU intense to do it much more often than the 7 minutes :) |
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| 07:18 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: truelight * r10214 /trunk/src/blitter/8bpp_base.cpp: -Fix: off-by-one in draw-rect-color-remapping (peter1138) |
| 07:19 | <Phazorx> | will it be hard to make a patch for replacing "." with config param for referencing data and save folders? |
| 07:19 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: truelight * r10215 /trunk/src/blitter/32bpp_simple.cpp: -Fix r10214: forgot 2 cases of the same mistake |
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| 07:25 | <Rubidium> | Phazorx: probably not, but why would that be needed? |
| 07:26 | <Phazorx> | Rubidium: for windows users with no ln -s capability it would be very nice |
| 07:27 | <Phazorx> | untill recent builds i had one copy of grfs |
| 07:27 | <Phazorx> | with hardlinked config patrhs |
| 07:27 | <Phazorx> | now it doesnt take them and i have to make and maintain as many copies as i have builds |
| 07:28 | <Rubidium> | Phazorx: just dump the newgrfs in docs&settings/username/Documents/OpenTTD |
| 07:28 | <Rubidium> | then all builds should just get the newgrfs from there |
| 07:28 | <hylje> | omg! homedir! |
| 07:28 | <Thomas[NL]> | hmm some strange thing: when I launch openttd via terminal it uses the user's home directory openttd.cfg, if i doubleclick the executable it crashes but seems to use the resolution in the current directories openttd.cfg |
| 07:29 | <hylje> | Rubidium: so if i have my newgrfs and configs in ~/openttd/, recent build will see there first? |
| 07:29 | <Phazorx> | Rubidium: is that path documented anywhere ? |
| 07:29 | <Rubidium> | only when there isn't a openttd.cfg in your current working directory (will look for that also in ~/.openttd/ |
| 07:30 | <Thomas[NL]> | stupid me, I used bin/openttd in the terminal and it looked for a cfg in bin ... |
| 07:31 | <Rubidium> | Phazorx: not yet |
| 07:31 | <Thomas[NL]> | eh in openttd NOT in bin i mean :) |
| 07:32 | <Phazorx> | Rubidium: are you sure that is the correct path? |
| 07:33 | <Rubidium> | start openttd with -d misc=4 as parameter and it'll show you a list on the console with the search paths it uses |
| 07:33 | <hylje> | Rubidium: quite many paths there |
| 07:33 | <Rubidium> | Phazorx: how did you compile? |
| 07:34 | <Phazorx> | Rubidium: mingw |
| 07:35 | <Rubidium> | ah, then you need to reconfigure manually, because the "old" setting for the personal dir was "" (don't use it), so it doesn't use the home dir. If you configure manually it will make you have a home directory. |
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| 07:39 | <Phazorx> | i tihnk it assumes ming's homedit :/ |
| 07:40 | <Rubidium> | just look at the output when you start openttd with -d misc=4 as parameter |
| 07:40 | <Phazorx> | yup thanks |
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| 07:42 | |-| | mode/#openttd [+v glx] by ChanServ |
| 07:48 | [~] | peter1138 has 4 search paths? :o |
| 07:49 | <Phazorx> | noworki Rubidium :/ |
| 07:49 | <Phazorx> | i see the proper path now |
| 07:49 | <Phazorx> | in -d 4 misc |
| 07:50 | <Phazorx> | and tried using it as root or ~/data |
| 07:50 | <Phazorx> | grfs arent loaded |
| 07:51 | <XeryusTC> | Phazorx: grfs dont need data/ anymore |
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| 07:51 | <Phazorx> | i dont know what they need since there are not docs so i decided it worth a try |
| 07:53 | <Phazorx> | hmm... my bad... workes now, but not quite sure whatehelped |
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| 08:01 | <Biff> | wtf |
| 08:01 | <Biff> | "cant clear this area, not enough money" |
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| 08:02 | <Biff> | http://discrete.eimot.no/~magne/openttd/Gl%c3%b8slia%20Transport,%2029th%20Jun%202035.png isnt there something wrong here? |
| 08:04 | <mic> | maybe you wrapped to negative? |
| 08:04 | <mic> | and how you want to clean in paused game? |
| 08:05 | <Biff> | i just took pause after the message came |
| 08:05 | <Biff> | i saw in the svn log that the data type of money has been changed, so i guess its related |
| 08:12 | <Thomas[NL]> | did you load a old save game in newest trunk? maybe that won't work |
| 08:14 | <Biff> | yes |
| 08:17 | <stillunknown> | Phazorx: I did a test, collision checking is not the biggest problem. |
| 08:18 | <Thomas[NL]> | hmm, seems not the problem Biff, i used the money cheat to get about the same amount you got in that screen and I get the same error |
| 08:20 | <Phazorx> | stillunknown: what is ? |
| 08:20 | <blathijs> | Biff: Thomas[NL]: If it's reproducible, please post instructions and a savegame to flyspray |
| 08:23 | <stillunknown> | Phazorx: TrainController, LocoHandler, HashUpdates |
| 08:23 | <stillunknown> | GetTileSlope |
| 08:23 | <stillunknown> | Then comes collision enum |
| 08:23 | <stillunknown> | Going to try what happens if i increase the hashmap size. |
| 08:24 | <Phazorx> | i tihnk peter1138 tried |
| 08:25 | <mic> | depot.... that type of cell is it? |
| 08:25 | <@peter1138> | depends on the depot type |
| 08:25 | <stillunknown> | Phazorx: I think it's safe to say that there are no more easy improvements left. |
| 08:25 | <@peter1138> | rail depot is on a rail tile, etc |
| 08:26 | <Phazorx> | stillunknown: sad |
| 08:26 | <mic> | ok thanks |
| 08:26 | <Phazorx> | i gues that save has too many tracks? |
| 08:26 | <stillunknown> | Phazorx: It's probably the speed and the amount of trains, but this game should be playable. |
| 08:27 | <Phazorx> | stillunknown: well since i downgraded trains i can not say that vehicle speed has any relevance |
| 08:27 | <Phazorx> | and if you remember EvsL |
| 08:28 | <Phazorx> | which is twice as wide but half as long |
| 08:28 | <Biff> | blathijs: ok |
| 08:28 | <Phazorx> | with same amount fo trains it performs about 5 times better |
| 08:28 | <@peter1138> | i wonder what effect going back to the old hash table would have? |
| 08:28 | <Phazorx> | peter1138: slideshow? |
| 08:29 | <Phazorx> | one thing which i didnt get was nonelinearity in performance vs amount of trains |
| 08:29 | <Phazorx> | after icnreasing amount by 40% loaded doubled |
| 08:29 | <stillunknown> | I would like to note that an efficient integration of the hash code could improve performance. |
| 08:29 | <Biff> | http://discrete.eimot.no/~magne/openttd/Gl%c3%b8slia%20Transport,%2025th%20Oct%202035.sav |
| 08:30 | <Biff> | savegame here, i cant post on flyspray later but no time now |
| 08:30 | <SmatZ> | stillunknown: hash algoritmh is rather good now, all entries have very similiar number of matching vehicles |
| 08:32 | <stillunknown> | Going from 7 to 8 bits does improve it a bit. |
| 08:33 | <stillunknown> | But the TrainLocoHandler and TrainController are the problem now. |
| 08:33 | <@peter1138> | yes, vehicles in each bucket |
| 08:33 | <@peter1138> | err |
| 08:33 | <@peter1138> | *less |
| 08:36 | <stillunknown> | Possible optimizations lie in only checking certain things when entering a new tile. |
| 08:38 | <@peter1138> | train controller is... hmm |
| 08:38 | <@peter1138> | messy? :) |
| 08:40 | <stillunknown> | There's room for improvement. |
| 08:40 | <stillunknown> | Like checking for stations, waypoints, etc. |
| 08:40 | <stillunknown> | That can be done on entering new tile. |
| 08:40 | <stillunknown> | I think. |
| 08:48 | <Thomas[NL]> | wow, what harbour/station set is this? (pic comes from ISA's screenshots) |
| 08:53 | <SmatZ> | it is possible to cause desync of clients that connected after you have connected |
| 08:54 | <SmatZ> | because trains crash the first train it finds |
| 08:54 | <Rubidium> | technically yes |
| 08:54 | <SmatZ> | but client that connect after you have |
| 08:54 | <SmatZ> | may have different order of vehicles in the hash table |
| 08:54 | <SmatZ> | yes, I verified it... |
| 08:55 | <SmatZ> | you have the order in what order vehicles entered the tile, but anyone connecting after you have order based on vehicle ID |
| 08:56 | <SmatZ> | anyway, train crashing only the first train it encounters, it is probably not correct |
| 08:57 | <mic> | does city builds buildings on steep slope? |
| 08:59 | <Rubidium> | hmm, SmatZ actually, only the new clients could desync; the old clients are still in sync with the server |
| 08:59 | <SmatZ> | Rubidium: yes ... |
| 09:00 | <SmatZ> | Rubidium: only those who connected after you have connected and prepared the bad situation |
| 09:00 | <SmatZ> | it is not as harmful... |
| 09:00 | <Rubidium> | so it would be solved if the complete cache is sent over the network |
| 09:00 | <SmatZ> | well, this is not a nice thing to do :) |
| 09:00 | <Rubidium> | but then again, what's the chance that a train collides with two other trains? |
| 09:00 | <Rubidium> | at the same tile |
| 09:01 | <Rubidium> | same position even |
| 09:01 | <SmatZ> | you have to do that intentionally |
| 09:01 | <Rubidium> | would (I think) mean that the trains are already crashed |
| 09:02 | <SmatZ> | http://88.146.45.107/ttd/trains.sav |
| 09:02 | <SmatZ> | trains 1 and 2 are near, but diff > 6 |
| 09:02 | <SmatZ> | when train 3 arrives, it crashes only train 1 |
| 09:03 | <SmatZ> | but ... when you were on server before |
| 09:03 | <SmatZ> | and train 2 arrived earlier to that tile |
| 09:03 | <SmatZ> | then train 3 would crash train 2 |
| 09:03 | <SmatZ> | because it is first in the hash table |
| 09:04 | <SmatZ> | hmm no :) |
| 09:05 | <SmatZ> | <-> |
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| 09:06 | <SmatZ> | Rubidium: when loaded, it crashes train 2, because it has higher vehicleID, and so it is first in the list ... but when playing and train 2 arrived first, it will crash train 1, because it will be first in the list |
| 09:06 | <SmatZ> | vehicles are added in the front of the list |
| 09:07 | <SmatZ> | this may cause desync... |
| 09:07 | <SmatZ> | *will |
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| 09:10 | <Digitalfox_> | Hi everybody :) |
| 09:10 | <SmatZ> | hello |
| 09:11 | <dihedral> | hi |
| 09:11 | <Digitalfox_> | I've been playing with newindustries in patch, and i must say that they look great and add a lot of new gaming, but nothing like openttd.. Just for changing the starting date of a game i have to search the faq to know how to change.. :\ |
| 09:12 | <Digitalfox_> | Making the resolution work ok in my TFT is another problem.. |
| 09:13 | <Digitalfox_> | Thankgod for openttd, and all the easy ways of making stugg work |
| 09:13 | <Digitalfox_> | *stuff |
| 09:15 | <Digitalfox_> | But i now have a question, when openttd supports newindustries, all planes, road vehicles, ships and trains must be loaded with set's to have those cargo's or the default vehicles that came with openttd will be able to support this new cargo's? |
| 09:16 | <Digitalfox_> | Like having some kind of reffit.. |
| 09:19 | <@peter1138> | yes, new vehicle sets must be loaded too |
| 09:19 | <@peter1138> | you could simply have a set that only set the cargo classes |
| 09:21 | <@peter1138> | SmatZ: i always wondered about that. of course it affected the old hash too, so i'm not too concerned currently ;) |
| 09:30 | <SmatZ> | peter1138: yes, I also found this problem while modifying the hash code :) but the solution wouldn't be in a hash table, but more like - if a vehicle to crash is found, then search all vehicles in the hash chain and crash them all, sorted by vehicle ID |
| 09:30 | <SmatZ> | it would be consistent and not causing any slowdowns |
| 09:31 | <@peter1138> | i had a patch to save the hash table somewhere |
| 09:31 | <SmatZ> | *crash them all = crash all of those the new vehicle would crash |
| 09:31 | <@peter1138> | fairly simple |
| 09:31 | <SmatZ> | I think better idea is to let users have their own hash tabel size |
| 09:32 | <SmatZ> | sending the hash table would need all to have the same hash table size... |
| 09:32 | <SmatZ> | and consuming a lot of bandwidth |
| 09:32 | <@peter1138> | not a lot |
| 09:32 | <SmatZ> | like 100s of kbytes, even mbytes... |
| 09:33 | <@peter1138> | not... really... |
| 09:33 | <@peter1138> | assuming the current size and a large game, less than 64KB |
| 09:34 | <SmatZ> | and taking care at byte order ... I think the idea of determined order of crashing is more suitable :) |
| 09:34 | <@peter1138> | save game already takes care of byte order |
| 09:35 | <@peter1138> | one thing that would be good is a network command "reset temp data" or something that the server sends when a client joins |
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| 09:35 | <@peter1138> | would help yapf a bit |
| 09:35 | <SmatZ> | I don't know yapf code :( |
| 09:36 | <SmatZ> | does it depend on the order of vehicles in the hash table, too? |
| 09:36 | <@peter1138> | ah, it has an internal cache |
| 09:36 | <Rubidium> | yapf's caches are invalidated at the beginning of each game tick |
| 09:39 | <SmatZ> | If I had to make a patch, I would use some determined order of crashing - it would solve the problem that only one train is crashed, when there should me crashed more at once |
| 09:39 | <SmatZ> | also, saving hash table into savefile would make it a bit bigger and incompatible with any future hash table changes ... also, clients couldn't have different hash table size than the server etc. |
| 09:39 | <SmatZ> | and if crashing the trains is the only reason to save the hash table... |
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| 09:40 | <@peter1138> | 15:36 < SmatZ> If I had to make a patch, |
| 09:40 | <@peter1138> | sounds like you volunteered? ;) |
| 09:41 | <SmatZ> | :) |
| 09:41 | <SmatZ> | I don't know English very well :) |
| 09:41 | <SmatZ> | maybe I could try |
| 09:41 | <SmatZ> | there won't be much coding about it |
| 09:50 | <Touqen> | It appears you know English well enough. Most native english speakers still can't grasp good vs. well and when each is supposed to be used. |
| 09:53 | <oxygene_> | good, you might be right |
| 09:55 | <SmatZ> | Touqen: thank you :) |
| 09:57 | <stillunknown> | train_cmd.cpp line 3273, does anyone know what the purpose of that loop is? |
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| 10:00 | <Rubidium> | stillunknown: so the train moves multiple "steps"; it always moves per 1 game unit, but fast trains need to move multiple game units in a single tick |
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| 10:03 | <SmatZ> | Vehicle *coll = GetFirstVehicleInChain(realcoll); |
| 10:03 | <SmatZ> | if (IsFrontEngine(coll)) SetVehicleCrashed(coll); |
| 10:04 | <SmatZ> | coult coll not be a front engine? |
| 10:04 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: truelight * r10216 /trunk/src/ (12 files in 4 dirs): |
| 10:04 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: -Fix: palette animation always redid all palette entries, where in fact only a few indexes were needed |
| 10:04 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: -Codechange: allow blitters to handle palette animation internally or even disable it; 8bpp uses video-backend for palette animation |
| 10:05 | <Rubidium> | SmatZ: in depots those lists of "free" wagons |
| 10:05 | <SmatZ> | Rubidium: yes ... this piece of code is from the train collision checker |
| 10:06 | <Rubidium> | the wagons in a depot are in the hash table too IIRC |
| 10:06 | <stillunknown> | SmatZ: trains have to collide with something, you don't teleport into another train |
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| 10:06 | <Touqen> | Or maybe you do. |
| 10:06 | <Touqen> | Haven't you seen The Fly? |
| 10:09 | <SmatZ> | Rubidium: yes, this is already solved by v->u.rail.track != TRACK_BIT_DEPOT ... |
| 10:09 | <SmatZ> | yup... |
| 10:09 | <SmatZ> | probably when a crashed vehicle disappears |
| 10:09 | <SmatZ> | there is not a train |
| 10:11 | <SmatZ> | stillunknown: I dont understand what you are talking about :( |
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| 10:15 | <mic> | ...about some details with that patch |
| 10:15 | <mic> | is it ok to dig under channels? |
| 10:15 | <stillunknown> | SmatZ: There is always one front engine that crashes into another train, that's enough. |
| 10:15 | <mic> | i.e. channels-on-slopes? |
| 10:16 | <mic> | should channels-on-slopes be allowed? :) |
| 10:17 | <Eddi|zuHause3> | isn't it? |
| 10:17 | <Noldo> | you need a lock for it |
| 10:18 | <hylje> | channels with foundations |
| 10:18 | <Noldo> | sound a bit too heavy |
| 10:18 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: truelight * r10217 /trunk/src/video/ (cocoa_v.mm sdl_v.cpp win32_v.cpp): -Fix r10216: forgot to declare 'blitter' in win32 and cocoa driver (tnx glx) |
| 10:20 | <mic> | channel is like an any other construction ) looks like sloped channels should be allowed too... hm ) |
| 10:20 | |-| | Tino|R152 [Tino@52N.UNI-MUENSTER.DE] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] |
| 10:21 | <@peter1138> | channels? |
| 10:21 | <@peter1138> | oh, canals? |
| 10:21 | <@Belugas> | no. Chanel |
| 10:21 | <@Belugas> | #5 |
| 10:22 | <SmatZ> | nice, it seems to work even without evaluating crashes in a given order |
| 10:22 | <SmatZ> | i don't know the network code :( |
| 10:24 | <mic> | and i dont understand why canals are destroyed during terraformingwhile everything else except purchased land is not |
| 10:24 | <Rubidium> | SmatZ: the main question is whether Random is called when actually crashing the train, or whether random is called sometime later |
| 10:24 | <Rubidium> | on the vehicle tick for example |
| 10:24 | <SmatZ> | Rubidium: it happens in one tick |
| 10:25 | |-| | skidd13 [~skidd13@p548A6EB9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #openttd |
| 10:25 | <SmatZ> | and it doesn't matter if crashes 1->3->2 or 2->3->1 (vehicleID) |
| 10:25 | <SmatZ> | SetVehicleCrashed() doesn't call any network code, so it seems to work |
| 10:26 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: glx * r10218 /trunk/src/video/win32_v.cpp: -Fix r10216: more compile errors |
| 10:27 | <Rubidium> | SmatZ: rather that it doesn't call random or uses anything of the game state except the fact that it crashed, so it works |
| 10:33 | |-| | pyrotechnick [~p@203-206-105-53.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #openttd |
| 10:33 | <pyrotechnick> | OPENTTD IS AWESOME |
| 10:33 | <pyrotechnick> | i cant believe it has its own irc lol |
| 10:33 | |-| | DreaM[BrB] [~Dr-DreaM@84.23.96.253] has joined #openttd |
| 10:33 | <pyrotechnick> | no seriously are any developers in here? |
| 10:34 | <Rubidium> | nah :D |
| 10:34 | <CIA-1> | OpenTTD: rubidium * r10219 /trunk/src/clear_cmd.cpp: -Fix [FS#882,FS#890]: land under foundations was terraform when it shouldn't be terraformed. |
| 10:35 | <TrueBrain> | rarely |
| 10:35 | <TrueBrain> | they are really annoying and stuff, never come here, and always bitch about things |
| 10:36 | <pyrotechnick> | HAHA |
| 10:36 | <pyrotechnick> | as if |
| 10:36 | <pyrotechnick> | they are probably busy being awesome somewhere else if thats true |
| 10:36 | <pyrotechnick> | so is it like fully reimplemented in C? |
| 10:36 | <TrueBrain> | C++ even |
| 10:36 | [~] | Maedhros is *always* busy being awesome :p |
| 10:36 | <pyrotechnick> | what was it written in to start with |
| 10:36 | <pyrotechnick> | trye? |
| 10:36 | <pyrotechnick> | true? |
| 10:36 | <TrueBrain> | Maedhros: true true :) |
| 10:36 | <pyrotechnick> | c |
| 10:36 | <pyrotechnick> | C |
| 10:36 | <pyrotechnick> | dude u typed that fast |
| 10:37 | <pyrotechnick> | i thort u had like a script or something |
| 10:37 | <TrueBrain> | pyrotechnick: try hitting enter after you reread your line ;) |
| 10:37 | <TrueBrain> | (not before ;)) |
| 10:37 | <pyrotechnick> | dude |
| 10:37 | <pyrotechnick> | ^^^ |
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