| --- | Log | opened Thu Jun 14 00:00:44 2007 |
| 00:06 | |-| | |Gekkko| changed nick to Gekko |
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| 00:28 | <Touqen> | sigh |
| 00:29 | <Touqen> | ubuntu and dist-upgrades don't seem to work too well |
| 00:29 | <geoffk> | scarey stuff i killed a few installs upgrading ubuntu |
| 00:30 | <Touqen> | it just killed my router |
| 00:30 | <geoffk> | something i never do anymore is upgrade |
| 00:30 | <Touqen> | It's fine so long as I don't reboot it. |
| 00:30 | <geoffk> | ouch |
| 00:30 | <Touqen> | So, I'm just gonna let it run till this weekend and reinstall. |
| 00:30 | <geoffk> | fresh installs are always best on any OS |
| 00:31 | <geoffk> | i dont trust scripts not to crap all over my configs |
| 00:31 | <Touqen> | I would have just left it alone but it appears the ubuntu breezy aren't there anymore. |
| 00:31 | <Touqen> | breezy repos* |
| 00:32 | <geoffk> | haven't notices, i got a few dapper servers runing |
| 00:34 | <geoffk> | personaly i use my own repositories for everything i use i pull in the dvd iso's and mount them on http |
| 00:37 | <Touqen> | Sweet. |
| 00:37 | <Touqen> | I just got an email dated 3/27/1993! |
| 00:37 | <geoffk> | i do a lot of bootstrpping with ubuntu and debian its very handy |
| 00:37 | <geoffk> | bit old |
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| 02:05 | <mikk36> | Touqen, don't even try to tell me that you had that email address in march '93 :P |
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| 02:18 | <dihedral> | good morning |
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| 02:22 | <@peter1138> | yes |
| 02:22 | <hylje> | no |
| 02:25 | <stillunknown> | geoffk: Some os'es are not necessarily worse after updates. |
| 02:25 | <geoffk> | no but i dont take any chances ubuntu i find breaks a lot of things |
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| 02:28 | <stillunknown> | geoffk: My father upgraded a while ago, went reasonably well/ |
| 02:28 | <stillunknown> | Personally i'm not a ubuntu fan. |
| 02:29 | <geoffk> | yeah i can go fine depends what you have on the system i guess, i neither like or hate it, i tihnk its slow on a desktop though and wouldn't use it for that |
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| 02:32 | <stillunknown> | geoffk: I find a rolling release system preferable. |
| 02:33 | <hylje> | rolling thunder |
| 02:33 | <geoffk> | rolling release? im not familiar with that |
| 02:33 | <hylje> | ubuntu releases 6mo apart |
| 02:34 | <stillunknown> | A rolling release system means stuff gets updated as it becomes available. |
| 02:34 | <stillunknown> | Instead of a huge snapshot every 6 or 12 months. |
| 02:34 | <geoffk> | yeah its good for that its the best thing about it |
| 02:34 | <geoffk> | i use it on some servers i got the LTS 6.06 |
| 02:35 | <hylje> | gentoo style |
| 02:35 | <hylje> | but snapshot is easier to support |
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| 02:35 | <hylje> | and doesnt involve bleeding edge |
| 02:35 | <stillunknown> | I find that certain things are left out during the snapshot update. |
| 02:36 | <stillunknown> | Like ubuntu still uses a 1.2.something libcddb |
| 02:36 | <stillunknown> | While 1.3 has been around for months before the release. |
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| 02:37 | <hylje> | stability! |
| 02:37 | <geoffk> | only reason i ever got interested in ubuntu was when breezy was shipped with OOo2 but it was so slow on my systems it was unusable |
| 02:37 | <stillunknown> | hylje: the 1.2.x version has an annoying bug ;-) |
| 02:38 | <hylje> | http://zip.4chan.org/v/src/1181805263275.jpg |
| 02:38 | <geoffk> | before that i hadn't fentured further than slackware bu tnow i employ debian for most my server thing since etch is uptodate with things i need to run |
| 02:39 | <geoffk> | fentured/ventured |
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| 03:09 | <Phazorx> | stillunknown |
| 03:09 | <Phazorx> | is it possibel to apply your caching idea on top of peter's patch ? |
| 03:11 | <@peter1138> | yes it is |
| 03:12 | <@peter1138> | whether it improves anything is another matter... |
| 03:12 | <Phazorx> | peter1138: i got another test case game here |
| 03:12 | <Phazorx> | 850 trains on 2048x128 |
| 03:12 | <@peter1138> | more test cases? heh |
| 03:13 | <Phazorx> | well this one is inetresting |
| 03:13 | <Phazorx> | same game whioch was crashiung continued |
| 03:13 | <Phazorx> | curerntly with stillunknown's oatch is it close to 100 (but not over it yet) |
| 03:13 | <Phazorx> | with yours 75-80% CPU load |
| 03:13 | <Phazorx> | w/o patches it's a slideshow |
| 03:14 | <Phazorx> | i'd recommend using it for tuning |
| 03:14 | <@peter1138> | ok. what do you want me to do about it? :p |
| 03:14 | <Phazorx> | re - play with hash values and profiling? |
| 03:15 | <@peter1138> | don't fancy doing it again ;( |
| 03:15 | <Phazorx> | ahh... :( |
| 03:15 | <@peter1138> | have you updated recently? |
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| 03:15 | <Phazorx> | not recently |
| 03:15 | <@peter1138> | or are you still using the patch i sent you? |
| 03:15 | <Phazorx> | same patch |
| 03:15 | <Phazorx> | 104m |
| 03:16 | <@peter1138> | :o |
| 03:16 | <Phazorx> | i can compare results with sometihng if you want me to |
| 03:16 | <@peter1138> | compare with current trunk |
| 03:18 | <Phazorx> | it's a bit better, ~65-70% now |
| 03:19 | <Phazorx> | or not |
| 03:19 | <Phazorx> | fluctuates |
| 03:20 | <Phazorx> | i'd say it is still slighty betetr, may be not 5% drop but clsoe to it |
| 03:20 | <Phazorx> | i'm surprized that i do not see same difference like in EvsL case cuz structure is close |
| 03:23 | <hylje> | evsl? |
| 03:23 | <Phazorx> | express vs local |
| 03:23 | <Phazorx> | one of my weird test cases |
| 03:24 | <Phazorx> | http://openttdcoop.ppcis.org/blog/2007/04/22/express-and-local-ml-separation |
| 03:24 | <hylje> | a |
| 03:24 | <hylje> | ok |
| 03:24 | <Phazorx> | this one shown 1100% improvement with peter's patch |
| 03:25 | <Phazorx> | PS#44 is SML |
| 03:25 | <hylje> | sml? D: |
| 03:25 | <Phazorx> | shift ml |
| 03:25 | <Phazorx> | i'll wiki it after i'm done |
| 03:25 | <hylje> | o |
| 03:25 | <Phazorx> | however owen already put something there |
| 03:25 | <Phazorx> | basicaly idea is free lanes for merging trains on ML |
| 03:25 | <Phazorx> | so ML trains shift lanes right wenvever they can |
| 03:26 | <Phazorx> | keeping left lanes open |
| 03:26 | <Phazorx> | by doing so you win on ease of design and expandability |
| 03:27 | <@peter1138> | Phazorx: in trunk, the hash size is larger and the bucket size smaller |
| 03:27 | <hylje> | clever |
| 03:27 | <hylje> | i has a bucket |
| 03:27 | <@peter1138> | which my profiling showed as better |
| 03:27 | <@peter1138> | increasing hash size always increased performance |
| 03:27 | <@peter1138> | so did decreasing bucket size |
| 03:27 | <Phazorx> | peter1138: is it possible to have it tunable |
| 03:27 | <Phazorx> | per map size |
| 03:28 | <@peter1138> | not really |
| 03:28 | <@peter1138> | the compiler wouldn't be able to optimise it as much |
| 03:28 | <Phazorx> | i see |
| 03:28 | <Phazorx> | well it works much better than before, so thanks a lot |
| 03:49 | <@peter1138> | what cpu have you got? |
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| 04:03 | <DJGummikuh> | Hey |
| 04:03 | <DJGummikuh> | What does it need in "Desert" Theme to grow towns? |
| 04:04 | <DJGummikuh> | I'm already doing in-town transportation and deliver food AND water to it, nevertheles it doesn't grow by a single inhabitant |
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| 04:17 | <Biff> | DJGummikuh: passengers, mail, goods? |
| 04:19 | <SteamWilly> | does building over farm-tiles affect the productivity? |
| 04:20 | <@peter1138> | no |
| 04:20 | <SteamWilly> | thx |
| 04:20 | <@peter1138> | it's a quantum farm |
| 04:21 | <SteamWilly> | ? |
| 04:21 | <SteamWilly> | you mean 'magic' farm? ;) |
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| 04:54 | <DJGummikuh> | Biff: mail too? |
| 04:54 | |-| | kaan [~Klaus@82.192.152.195] has joined #openttd |
| 04:54 | <DJGummikuh> | Biff: right now I'm transporting Water and Food and Passengers |
| 04:55 | <kaan> | hello all |
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| 04:55 | <all> | hello kaan |
| 04:55 | |-| | all changed nick to DJGummikuh |
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| 04:57 | <SteamWilly> | gummikuh: the wiki says: "Towns located in the desert require food and water to grow" nothing more about this topic |
| 05:00 | <DJGummikuh> | SteamWilly: yes this is what I heard... actually the town already grew by 5 villagers... over 4 years of constant food and water delivery |
| 05:01 | <Maedhros> | 5 people over four years sound more like luck than anything else ;) |
| 05:01 | <Maedhros> | how close are your stations to the town? |
| 05:04 | <DJGummikuh> | well... my station is about the size of the town and right next to it... |
| 05:04 | <DJGummikuh> | Maedhros: if oyu have 0.5.2 you can join my server and have a look |
| 05:04 | <DJGummikuh> | 134.130.54.198 is the IP |
| 05:05 | <DJGummikuh> | yay now it is even lower than it was before I started delivering |
| 05:05 | <DJGummikuh> | is my food poisoned or what? |
| 05:11 | <DJGummikuh> | AAAH it finally started growing... seems the problem indeed was not enough food |
| 05:11 | <DJGummikuh> | updated from one food train to 4 :D already doubled the size |
| 05:11 | <Maedhros> | ahh, cool :) |
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| 05:31 | <Phazorx> | peter1138: t-bred 2100+ @ 2G |
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| 05:56 | <eekee> | What sort of vehicle ID should I use when adding a new tram> |
| 05:56 | <eekee> | ? |
| 05:56 | <TrueBrain> | 12 |
| 05:57 | |-| | Nickman changed nick to Nickman^Away |
| 05:57 | [~] | Nickman^Away is now away: gone |
| 05:57 | <TrueBrain> | Nickman^Away: please disable that script, as it is not wanted here |
| 05:58 | |-| | Nickman^Away changed nick to Nickman |
| 05:58 | [~] | Nickman is back from: gone (been away for 23s) |
| 05:58 | <TrueBrain> | Nickman^Away: please disable that script, as it is not wanted here (last time we ask nicely ;)) |
| 05:58 | |-| | Nickman changed nick to Nickman^Away |
| 05:58 | [~] | Nickman^Away is now away: gone |
| 05:58 | <TrueBrain> | @kick Nickman^Away |
| 05:58 | |-| | Nickman^Away kicked [#openttd] DorpsGek [TrueBrain] |
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| 05:59 | <Nickman> | sorry for the away script :s |
| 05:59 | <Nickman> | was testing and it send it to all channels |
| 05:59 | <TrueBrain> | np, just make sure it is now disabled ;) |
| 05:59 | <Nickman> | I hope so :D |
| 05:59 | <TrueBrain> | it is annoying in any channel :p |
| 05:59 | <Nickman> | yeah, I know, sorry |
| 06:00 | <eekee> | TrueBrain: ty |
| 06:00 | <Nickman> | it's gone now ;) |
| 06:00 | <TrueBrain> | eekee: I was kind of joking :p |
| 06:01 | <eekee> | o :d |
| 06:01 | <eekee> | lol |
| 06:02 | <eekee> | The ttdpatch wiki says to use an existing veh. number, but the serbian tram set doesn't seem to |
| 06:06 | <eekee> | ah my mistake |
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| 06:27 | <Nickman> | TrueBrain: isn't the 32bpp implemantation somewhat a hack??? |
| 06:28 | <TrueBrain> | hack?! |
| 06:28 | <TrueBrain> | you want a kick again? :p |
| 06:28 | <TrueBrain> | I worked my ass of the last few days to get a clean 32bpp implementation |
| 06:28 | <TrueBrain> | and you call it a hack? :) |
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| 06:30 | <Nickman> | I don't know the real implementation, but since it overrides the 8bpp sprites? |
| 06:30 | <Nickman> | I didn't say it sucked... I think it's some great work! |
| 06:31 | <Nickman> | but find it wierd to see a bunch of png files instead of a grf-like file :) |
| 06:31 | <Nickman> | that's all ;) |
| 06:32 | [~] | eekee is finding grf wierd, or at least .nfo O.o |
| 06:33 | <Nickman> | hehe :D |
| 06:33 | <Nickman> | but, on the other hand, this implementation is much simpler :) |
| 06:33 | <eekee> | hehe |
| 06:33 | <eekee> | brb |
| 06:33 | <Nickman> | maybe you could add support to zip files or so TrueBrain ?? |
| 06:33 | <eekee> | Oh & yay for simplicity! Always. |
| 06:33 | <Nickman> | ;) |
| 06:33 | <Nickman> | indeed |
| 06:34 | <TrueBrain> | Nickman: tar support :p |
| 06:34 | <Nickman> | also good :) |
| 06:34 | <Kjetil> | lha support :P |
| 06:34 | <Rubidium> | Nickman: now it works "simply", all the other things like a container for 32bpp graphics and other (speed) improvements are still under development |
| 06:34 | <Nickman> | k ;) |
| 06:35 | <Nickman> | but the tar support would be nice, since you would be able to place "packs" of png's in the folder insted of seperate PNG's wich looks nicer ;) |
| 06:35 | <Nickman> | but some great stuff there!! |
| 06:37 | <Nickman> | but what was the 32bpp branch doing if you just made it out of nothing? :D |
| 06:38 | <@peter1138> | being stale |
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| 06:38 | <Nickman> | :p |
| 06:38 | <@peter1138> | so got any good shots of 32bpp yet? |
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| 06:41 | <Nickman> | so, to use 32bpp images, you just have to place them in those specific locations and the game will load them automaticly? |
| 06:43 | <TrueBrain> | yup |
| 06:44 | <Nickman> | cool ;) |
| 06:44 | <Nickman> | so this is clientside only and doesn't affect multiplayer games? |
| 06:46 | <@peter1138> | correct |
| 06:46 | <Nickman> | good compatibility with 8bpp only then ;) |
| 06:46 | <@peter1138> | well |
| 06:47 | <@peter1138> | "in the overall aim of the 32bpp project. Such as seasons, more sprites for construction. 4 rotations for viewing. Multiple angles for vehicles, smoother rail/junctions, longer/larger vehicles" |
| 06:47 | <@peter1138> | idiot! |
| 06:47 | <@peter1138> | that is totally *not* the aim of 32bpp... |
| 06:47 | <Nickman> | :D |
| 06:49 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | somthing that i would place in direct relation to 32bpp would be better zoom and transparency |
| 06:49 | <Nickman> | indeed |
| 06:51 | <@peter1138> | http://fuzzle.org/o/opengl8.png < transparency ;p |
| 06:51 | <@peter1138> | but yes |
| 06:52 | <@peter1138> | RGBA PNGs are fully supported |
| 06:53 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | a little bit too transparent, maybe :) |
| 06:53 | <@peter1138> | i've changed it, yes |
| 06:53 | <Nickman> | :) |
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| 06:58 | <TrueBrain> | peter1138: I agree: idiot! Who wrote that? |
| 06:59 | <TrueBrain> | Nickman: the aim of 32bpp is that it only overrides 8bpp, and not be a replacement for |
| 06:59 | <TrueBrain> | that way 8bpp and 32bpp clients can play together just perfectly |
| 06:59 | <@peter1138> | TrueBrain: ben_robbins_ |
| 07:00 | <TrueBrain> | and tar support is on his way, it just isn't as important as some other things :) |
| 07:00 | <TrueBrain> | peter1138: url? |
| 07:00 | <@peter1138> | lol |
| 07:00 | <@peter1138> | it's in the thread you locked |
| 07:00 | <TrueBrain> | ah |
| 07:00 | <TrueBrain> | never read the replies |
| 07:00 | <@peter1138> | hehe |
| 07:01 | <Nickman> | TrueBrain I understand ;). it is a great feature none the less ;) |
| 07:01 | <TrueBrain> | Nickman: it sure is, and more of all, it is pretty clean (code-wise :)) |
| 07:01 | <TrueBrain> | a lot of additions and shit is possible |
| 07:01 | <TrueBrain> | like opengl :p |
| 07:01 | <Nickman> | aha ;) |
| 07:01 | <Nickman> | sound good ;) |
| 07:02 | <Nickman> | I'll try to take a look at the code when my exams are done |
| 07:02 | <TrueBrain> | :) |
| 07:02 | <TrueBrain> | and I just need some good 32bpp replacement pngs |
| 07:03 | <@peter1138> | bah |
| 07:03 | <@peter1138> | where does glGetProcAddress come from... |
| 07:04 | <Nickman> | we should have 32bpp replacements for all the standard grfs |
| 07:04 | <Nickman> | the TTD GRFs |
| 07:05 | <TrueBrain> | yup |
| 07:05 | <Nickman> | that would be nice ;) |
| 07:05 | <Nickman> | but the 32bpp graphics development seems to be quite :s. Don't see much progress? |
| 07:06 | <TrueBrain> | mostly because everyone is just doing something |
| 07:06 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | yeah, nobody is organising anything |
| 07:07 | <TrueBrain> | so for that, I am trying to make a website |
| 07:07 | <TrueBrain> | I only am not an artist |
| 07:07 | <TrueBrain> | so I am making up rules I have no idea if they work :p |
| 07:07 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | a "project manager" does not necessary need to have any clue about the project :) |
| 07:08 | <TrueBrain> | true, but it might be useful ;) |
| 07:08 | <Nickman> | I can make webistes... :) |
| 07:09 | <Nickman> | only can't draw shit :p |
| 07:09 | <TrueBrain> | I can do that too :p |
| 07:09 | <TrueBrain> | nah, the website is already kind of done (not even by me) |
| 07:09 | <Nickman> | :D |
| 07:09 | <Nickman> | what do you need for the site then? |
| 07:10 | <TrueBrain> | I am going to list all current grfs (in png, 8bpp), and allow uploading of 32bpp images by users |
| 07:10 | <TrueBrain> | which then are listed |
| 07:10 | <TrueBrain> | maybe even a simple scoring system |
| 07:10 | <TrueBrain> | and some guidelines how they should be made |
| 07:11 | <TrueBrain> | (company color should be dark-blue, stuff like that) |
| 07:11 | <Nickman> | sounds great, finally a central place for the graphics :) |
| 07:11 | <TrueBrain> | and of course that when they upload an image, they give the copyright up to the OpenTTD Developers Team |
| 07:11 | <TrueBrain> | exactly |
| 07:11 | <TrueBrain> | and ones we can use freely |
| 07:12 | <Nickman> | indeed, OpenTTD Team needs to be able to use the grafics without having to ask for permission all the time |
| 07:13 | <TrueBrain> | exactly :) Else it is kind of useless |
| 07:13 | <TrueBrain> | even more as hopefully multiple users will post graphics :) |
| 07:13 | <eekee> | Feels wierd to be learing to make grfs at this time :) |
| 07:13 | <eekee> | *learning |
| 07:14 | <Nickman> | :D |
| 07:14 | <Nickman> | if you need help with the site TrueBrain, I'm willing to help ;). I like webdevelopment :) |
| 07:14 | <TrueBrain> | first I need to get those 8bpp PNGs with all data set as I would like :) |
| 07:15 | <TrueBrain> | (we make use of PNG tEXt chunks to store x_offs and y_offs, of course they need to be in the 8bpp PNGs too) |
| 07:15 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | what about a rule that the images should have some resemlence to the original ones? |
| 07:15 | <TrueBrain> | although OpenTTD can't load them |
| 07:15 | <TrueBrain> | Eddi|zuHause2: that will be one of the biggest :) One in fact will be bigger: you can not take the original and modify it |
| 07:15 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | yeah, of course |
| 07:15 | <TrueBrain> | but I am really looking for a replacement that looks VERY good, but still has the TT feeling |
| 07:15 | <Nickman> | yeah |
| 07:17 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | some of the previously posted (huge) 32bpp images might look nice and all, but they just do not fit into the old graphics |
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| 07:17 | <TrueBrain> | Eddi|zuHause2: I totally agree |
| 07:17 | <TrueBrain> | also, the replacement images need to be of the same dimension |
| 07:17 | <TrueBrain> | not like we have now, twice or 4 times as big |
| 07:17 | <eekee> | Really? |
| 07:18 | <TrueBrain> | tile-sprites need to be pixel-perfect, else you get weird side-effects |
| 07:18 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | hm, i could live with an additional x2 zoom version |
| 07:18 | <TrueBrain> | Eddi|zuHause2: the scaling routine can't :) |
| 07:18 | <eekee> | I thought you were going for x2 x2 tiles, heh |
| 07:18 | <TrueBrain> | most likely we will add that you can give pngs per zoom level |
| 07:18 | <eekee> | I could too, lol |
| 07:18 | <TrueBrain> | but runtime scaling is very poor |
| 07:19 | <eekee> | I could live with a pixelly look at x2 |
| 07:19 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | yeah, i meant that you have a picture for each zoom level, in particular the current max zoom in, and a future x2 zoom |
| 07:20 | <TrueBrain> | but for now I am already happy if I can get my hands on graphics for the current normal zoom level :) |
| 07:21 | <Nickman> | hehe, would be cool ;) |
| 07:21 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | well, you could start to collect normal and x2 images now, and worry about the implementation of x2 later :) |
| 07:21 | <Nickman> | some of the graphics stated on the wiki look really great (espacially the terrain ones) and have the same look and feel as the original ones |
| 07:21 | <TrueBrain> | Eddi|zuHause2: then we have to collect all zoom levels immediatly |
| 07:21 | <TrueBrain> | no tnx :) |
| 07:22 | <TrueBrain> | Nickman: yeah, and sadly enough they are unusable as they are all zoom-in 2x |
| 07:22 | <TrueBrain> | which makes them off by 1 pixel in normal zoom |
| 07:22 | <TrueBrain> | causing graphical issues all over the place :( |
| 07:23 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | i really think with current resolutions, a x2 zoom is necessary |
| 07:23 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | also for gui elements |
| 07:23 | <TrueBrain> | Eddi|zuHause2: a zoom-in 2x will be created, if I can work some bugs, but don't blame the current resolutions :p |
| 07:23 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | (but separately :)) |
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| 07:24 | <TrueBrain> | work = work out |
| 07:24 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | well, tto was designed for 640x480, meanwhile a lot of people have 1600x1200 or more resolution |
| 07:24 | <Nickman> | can't you just conatact the people who made those new grf to make some new renders TrueBrain? |
| 07:24 | <TrueBrain> | Eddi|zuHause2: so? :) I can still read most things just fine ;) |
| 07:25 | <TrueBrain> | Nickman: possible, we will see if we can get them motivated |
| 07:25 | <TrueBrain> | sadly enough Alltaken has a real job nowedays :p |
| 07:25 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | well, but i can't if i sit 3m from the monitor :) |
| 07:25 | <TrueBrain> | Eddi|zuHause2: so what you are talking about is a luxary problem |
| 07:25 | <TrueBrain> | you could also just switch your resolution back to a normal size |
| 07:25 | <TrueBrain> | solves your problem ;) |
| 07:25 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | ttd is a luxury problem in itself :) |
| 07:26 | <Nickman> | :D |
| 07:26 | <Nickman> | yeah Alltaken made some nice graphics |
| 07:31 | <tokai|ni> | the problem with those new graphics was the silly blender requirement:) |
| 07:31 | <tokai|ni> | else i would have done a bunch |
| 07:32 | <TrueBrain> | what blender requirement? |
| 07:32 | [~] | eekee has a wierd action 4 issue. It's renaming the wrong vehicle |
| 07:32 | <tokai|ni> | TrueBrain: the wiki says (or said) so. |
| 07:32 | <TrueBrain> | hmm, can you find it for me? |
| 07:33 | <tokai|ni> | seems its slighly adjusted: http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/32bit_Graphics_Development |
| 07:34 | <tokai|ni> | TrueBrain: the problem is when u texture etc. your object in application X and then export it to blender an rerender it there it might come out completly different |
| 07:34 | <tokai|ni> | a more general definition of light look and color schemes would have been better imho.. more freedom for the individual gfx artist |
| 07:35 | <TrueBrain> | that is what I would suggest |
| 07:35 | <TrueBrain> | http://www.chrissawyer.com/feature1a.htm <- didn't know it was really based on real buildings |
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| 07:37 | <Nickman> | wrong button :D |
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| 07:37 | <eekee> | Yeah me either, although I should have. The TTD rendition of the livingstone tower looks like any number of blocks of flats in Britain |
| 07:38 | <tokai|ni> | TrueBrain: i even have an idea to come to many free graphics in 2 weeks. dunno if its doable.. needs some managing. on threedy.com they do weekly/biweekly modelling competitions. One could organize a challenge to make graphics for OpenTTD. I could ask the guys if there is interest (but it needs lightsetup etc. defined (application unrelated)). |
| 07:39 | <TrueBrain> | tokai|ni: I don't have any problems with that, we have a few requirements for the graphics, and the rest is free for all |
| 07:39 | <eekee> | I think there's some buildings like the Buchanan Street houses down south here in Worthing, & the library here doesn't look any less strange than that Glasgow bank. |
| 07:42 | <tokai|ni> | TrueBrain: i'll ask them then. |
| 07:42 | <TrueBrain> | tokai|ni: please do :) We do need to finialize a tool to make the pngs with the x_offs and y_offs thingies |
| 07:44 | <eekee> | Hm, I'm stuck on my refittable tram project. Action 4 is renaming the wrong vehicle, and the action 0 I copied isn't making sense when I refer to the wiki |
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| 07:47 | <Maedhros> | eekee: can you put it up somewhere so we can have a look? |
| 07:47 | <eekee> | Maedhros: sure, one sec |
| 07:48 | <eekee> | http://pastebin.se/20455 |
| 07:48 | <eekee> | apologies for the syntax highlighting |
| 07:50 | [~] | Maedhros looks |
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| 07:52 | <eekee> | the action 0 is copied from srvttw.nfo with just the vehicle id changed to 50 |
| 07:54 | <Maedhros> | ok, as for the action 4, your action 3 is defining vehicle id 0x50, but you're renaming vehicle 0x01 |
| 07:54 | <eekee> | the action 4 rename is being applied to the original vehicle in srvttw.grf, which has vehicle ID 40. Mine is aparently a Powernaught Fizzy Drink Truck - the original name for road veh. 50 |
| 07:54 | <@peter1138> | Maedhros: not quite |
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| 07:55 | <@peter1138> | its renaming vehicle 64 ... @ |
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| 07:55 | <Maedhros> | hmm, ok |
| 07:55 | <eekee> | oh,those 40 & 50 are in hex, sorry |
| 07:56 | <@peter1138> | so the 01 "@ should be 01 50 " |
| 07:56 | <Maedhros> | aha |
| 07:56 | <eekee> | ah lol ty :D |
| 07:56 | <Maedhros> | also, your action 0 is providing properties for 17 vehicles... |
| 07:57 | <+glx> | grfcodec does funny things with strings :) |
| 07:57 | <eekee> | I wondered why the veh number wasn't there, & what that @ waws lol |
| 07:57 | <eekee> | yay! |
| 07:58 | <eekee> | Maedhros: I thought it wsa providing 17 properties for 1 veh? |
| 07:58 | <Maedhros> | *sigh* you're right |
| 07:59 | <Maedhros> | i'm not doing well at this, am i ;) |
| 07:59 | <hylje> | not at all |
| 07:59 | <eekee> | It's ok, I had to double check that :D |
| 08:03 | <Maedhros> | anyway, apart from missing 4 properties, what doesn't make sense about the action 0? |
| 08:03 | <eekee> | The action 0 line I read as action 1, feature 1, setting hex11 properties on 1 vehicle, number hex50, but the first property appears to be 00 which isn't in the wiki |
| 08:03 | <hylje> | enjoy your readable code |
| 08:03 | <eekee> | heh heh heh |
| 08:03 | <Maedhros> | eekee: ah. that's a general property - http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Action0General |
| 08:04 | <eekee> | ahh! |
| 08:06 | <eekee> | wunderful, thanks |
| 08:07 | <Maedhros> | no problem :) |
| 08:10 | <@peter1138> | heh, using documented nfo is somewhat more helpful |
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| 08:16 | <TheJosh> | hey all |
| 08:17 | <TheJosh> | so we now have 32bpp? cool |
| 08:17 | [~] | TheJosh thinks about those transperent guis... |
| 08:18 | <Rubidium> | TheJosh: I think you can stay in the thinking stage for quite some while; first cpp_gui must be finished I think |
| 08:18 | <DJGummikuh> | cpp? |
| 08:18 | <DJGummikuh> | c++ that is? |
| 08:19 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | + in filenames is not that great of an idea :p |
| 08:20 | <TheJosh> | Rubidium: i assumed it would not be ready for opacity just yet, it was only added like today or so |
| 08:20 | <Rubidium> | only character that cannot be in a filename is the "/" ;) |
| 08:20 | <DJGummikuh> | Eddi|zuHause2: that doesn't answer my question |
| 08:20 | <TheJosh> | on linux machines, although windows is more dumb |
| 08:20 | <DJGummikuh> | is cpp meant to be a filesys compatible version of c++? |
| 08:21 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | if something is allowed, it does not mean it is a good idea :p |
| 08:21 | <DJGummikuh> | or is that some screwed shortcut for centered piece positioning or such? |
| 08:21 | <Maedhros> | one of them. i've also seen people using .cc as a file extension |
| 08:21 | <Rubidium> | yeah, Windows is broken. You can not even call you file "con" (without quotes ofcourse) |
| 08:21 | <DJGummikuh> | con? |
| 08:21 | <eekee> | w00t w00t, one refittable tram |
| 08:21 | <TheJosh> | cool |
| 08:22 | <TrueBrain> | http://devs.openttd.org/~truelight/art24.png |
| 08:22 | <DJGummikuh> | Rubidium: despite I never tried it, why is it forbidden? |
| 08:22 | <+glx> | con is the console |
| 08:22 | <DJGummikuh> | lol that looks like a beautiful hall of mirrors |
| 08:23 | <Rubidium> | copy con <filename> |
| 08:23 | <TheJosh> | Rubidium: with the 32bpp, can I assume the NewGRF format will be extended for 32bpp support so that we wont need to have hundreds of pngs lying around? |
| 08:23 | <Rubidium> | Microsoft's most basic text "editor" |
| 08:23 | <TrueBrain> | okay, I really need to make a blog post |
| 08:23 | <Maedhros> | TheJosh: it's not really safe to assume anything at the moment - it's all in the early stages ;) |
| 08:23 | <TheJosh> | Cool |
| 08:24 | <TheJosh> | i see you got that bug sorted Maedhros |
| 08:24 | <TrueBrain> | TheJosh: for now NewGRF won't be extended with 32bpp suport, but an addition tar-format will be introduced that combines the PNGs to a single file |
| 08:24 | <TheJosh> | that would be good |
| 08:24 | <TheJosh> | will that end up replacing NewGRF by also holding the NewGRF data in a plain-text format? |
| 08:25 | <TheJosh> | or xml or something? |
| 08:25 | <TrueBrain> | NewGRF won't be replaced |
| 08:25 | <TrueBrain> | 32bpp images are an extension to 8bpp |
| 08:25 | <TrueBrain> | nothing more, nothing less |
| 08:25 | <TheJosh> | ok cool |
| 08:25 | <TrueBrain> | 8bpp is and will be the core bpp |
| 08:25 | <TrueBrain> | optional you can add 32bpp graphics to it |
| 08:26 | <TheJosh> | ok makes sence |
| 08:27 | <DJGummikuh> | you know what I wonder about on openttd.org? |
| 08:28 | <DJGummikuh> | How the heck can you make a screenshot of a CAKE? isn't this supposed to be an old-school photo? |
| 08:28 | <+glx> | there's a screenshot on the cake :) |
| 08:28 | <Rubidium> | there's a screenshot on the cake |
| 08:30 | <eekee> | XD |
| 08:30 | <DJGummikuh> | We've made a screenshot of it, check the screenshots section. <-- I think this does not try to tell me that there's a screenshot on the cake ;D |
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| 08:35 | <Sug> | wow, the 32bpp blitter is slow |
| 08:37 | <TrueBrain> | 3 to 4 times as slow, yes |
| 08:38 | <TrueBrain> | a more optimized 32bpp blitter is being produced, but takes time |
| 08:38 | <Rubidium> | first make it work, then make it pretty ;) |
| 08:38 | <TrueBrain> | exactly :) |
| 08:39 | <Sug> | fair enough, didnt expect it to be perfect first time |
| 08:40 | <TrueBrain> | it is perfect, just slow :p |
| 08:40 | <Sug> | are you planning on increasing the size of things, as I understand it now everything has to be the same dimensions as they always have been |
| 08:41 | <TrueBrain> | and what is your question? :p |
| 08:41 | <Sug> | if your planning on increasing the tile size i guess |
| 08:42 | <TrueBrain> | why would we? It is perfet as it is :) |
| 08:42 | <TheJosh> | the doxygen docs list every function in openttd, right? |
| 08:42 | <Rubidium> | tiles will always be 16 by 16 ;) |
| 08:43 | <TrueBrain> | TheJosh: updated every night, yes |
| 08:43 | <TrueBrain> | http://docs.openttd.org/ |
| 08:43 | <TrueBrain> | or 64x31 in pixel-format :) |
| 08:43 | <TheJosh> | so how come the function GetVehicle doesnt show up anywhere? i cant find it anywhere |
| 08:43 | <Sug> | so they are getting bigger |
| 08:43 | <TrueBrain> | nope |
| 08:44 | <TrueBrain> | they are already that size |
| 08:44 | <Sug> | oh ok |
| 08:44 | <Sug> | then 32bpp seems a bit pointless |
| 08:44 | <TrueBrain> | only to you maybe |
| 08:44 | <TrueBrain> | TheJosh: doxygen is known to hide things ;) Also, non-documented things can be hard to find |
| 08:44 | <TheJosh> | i cant even find it with grep |
| 08:45 | <Sug> | well maybe, but if a train is only 32 pixels long. having more colours doesnt seem necceasry |
| 08:45 | <TrueBrain> | and why would that be? |
| 08:46 | <@peter1138> | heh |
| 08:46 | <XeryusTC> | Sug: that is a silly statement :P |
| 08:46 | <Sug> | well yea you get more colours available |
| 08:46 | <+glx> | Sug: but it can have different color than the 256 in 8bpp |
| 08:46 | <TrueBrain> | TheJosh: btw, GetVehicle is a very special function ;) Try to find it in the source ;) |
| 08:46 | <Sug> | yea I get that |
| 08:47 | <@peter1138> | people seem to be under the impression that 32bpp was the holy grail |
| 08:47 | <@peter1138> | suddenly loads of different things would become possible |
| 08:47 | <+glx> | and you can have different transparency levels too |
| 08:47 | <TrueBrain> | or that the game all of a sudden looks like The Sims :p |
| 08:47 | <@peter1138> | in reality, all that 32bpp allows is, well, 32bpp |
| 08:47 | <Sug> | but it seemed from the previous work done on it that you were actually increasing the detail you could get |
| 08:48 | <TheJosh> | TrueBrain: how is GetVehicle special? |
| 08:48 | <@peter1138> | tile size does not need to increase to increase detail :) |
| 08:48 | <TrueBrain> | Sug: only the artists wanted to make that impression |
| 08:48 | <Sug> | ahh |
| 08:48 | <TrueBrain> | TheJosh: as I truely don't know where it is defined :p |
| 08:48 | <@peter1138> | TheJosh: it's a function made from a macro |
| 08:48 | <Sug> | when i say tile size i meant the pixels in a tile |
| 08:48 | <@peter1138> | so do i :) |
| 08:48 | <TrueBrain> | http://blog.openttd.org/?p=15 <- anyway, ins and outs on 32bpp |
| 08:49 | <+glx> | maybe with some zoom-in levels ;) (but not now) |
| 08:50 | <TheJosh> | so GetVehicle basically doesnt exist? cool |
| 08:50 | <TheJosh> | i have fixed my problem without seeing GetVehicle anyway |
| 08:50 | <Maedhros> | it does, but you won't find it with grep unless you run gcc -E over the source ;) |
| 08:51 | <Rubidium> | TheJosh/TrueBrain: GetVehicle is a pool method, i.e. created via a macro |
| 08:51 | <Rubidium> | it's defined at line 64 of oldpool.h |
| 08:52 | <TheJosh> | "static inline type* Get##name(uint index)" <== i see why grep missed it |
| 08:53 | <TheJosh> | why is it defined in such an odd way? |
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| 08:53 | <+glx> | generic mempool function |
| 08:53 | <+glx> | reduce code duplication |
| 08:54 | <Sug> | TrueBrain: Very enlightening, thanks |
| 08:54 | <TrueBrain> | yw :) |
| 08:54 | <@Bjarni> | TrueLight was enlightening :/ |
| 08:55 | <TrueBrain> | Sug: more over, maybe I should have added that too: increases the amount of pixels per tile won't really resolve anything. I don't see any reason why someone just uses 2 or 4 tiles or what ever if he wants to make something big |
| 08:55 | <TrueBrain> | what I saw in 32bpp scared me: 4 houses on one tile |
| 08:55 | <TrueBrain> | stuff like that |
| 08:56 | <TrueBrain> | that isn't TT-alike, that is a whole new game |
| 08:56 | <TrueBrain> | but okay, those 'changes' people tried to make really are unrelated to 32bpp, but are on a whole other level :) |
| 08:56 | <Sug> | yea, I didn't think of that |
| 08:56 | <@peter1138> | and longer trains don't need larger tiles either |
| 08:56 | <@peter1138> | probably it could be done with a minor patch quite easily |
| 08:57 | <Sug> | so in that case, are you planning to increase sprites sizes so you can have bigger things |
| 08:57 | <@peter1138> | it would just look odd going round bends ;) |
| 08:57 | <Sug> | true |
| 08:57 | <Maedhros> | long vehicles redux! |
| 08:57 | <@peter1138> | sprites aren't really limited in size |
| 08:58 | <@peter1138> | well, possibly to 256x256 or somesuch |
| 08:58 | <@peter1138> | which is large |
| 08:58 | <eekee> | dude ya |
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| 08:59 | <Sug> | but then again, taking a 45degree turn instantly doesnt exactly look realistic |
| 09:01 | <@peter1138> | indeed |
| 09:01 | <@peter1138> | but these are things that are no dependent on 8bpp or 32bpp |
| 09:01 | <@peter1138> | *not |
| 09:03 | [~] | eekee has a squeaky tram. Ponders |
| 09:12 | <eekee> | yay workie! I forgot to copy some bytes |
| 09:16 | <TheJosh> | how can i get the owner of a vehicle? i see the owner parameter (type PlayerByte) but how can I relate that to the current player? |
| 09:16 | <TheJosh> | this line: "if (v->owner == _current_player) {" does not seem to be working for me |
| 09:17 | <Rubidium> | that should just work |
| 09:17 | <Rubidium> | but is the current player what you expect it to be? |
| 09:17 | <Maedhros> | where are you trying to use it? |
| 09:17 | <TheJosh> | in LoadUnloadVehicle (econonmy.cpp) |
| 09:18 | <TheJosh> | line 1478 |
| 09:19 | <Maedhros> | LoadUnloadVehicle is called as part of the vehicle tick handler, so you can't assume _current_player will be right there |
| 09:19 | <Rubidium> | current player is undefined in there |
| 09:19 | <Noldo> | joy of globals |
| 09:20 | <Rubidium> | Noldo: even without globals this problem would exist |
| 09:20 | <TheJosh> | so how can I get the actual current player? i would like my loading indicators to only show for the current player |
| 09:20 | <Rubidium> | current player isn't what you want |
| 09:21 | <Rubidium> | as current player can also be the town or water when they are having their "ticks" |
| 09:21 | <TheJosh> | oh |
| 09:21 | <Rubidium> | I think you want local player |
| 09:21 | <Maedhros> | what exactly are loading indicators? i'd have thought they'd be better off in the gui anyway... |
| 09:21 | <TheJosh> | would a town tick LoadUnloadVehicle? |
| 09:21 | <@peter1138> | no |
| 09:22 | <TheJosh> | loading indicators are little numbers above the train as it loads. this is just the code that updates the variable for the gui |
| 09:23 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | TheJosh: maybe you are better off using _local_player |
| 09:24 | <TheJosh> | Eddi|zuHause2: thanks, that appears to be working |
| 09:24 | <TheJosh> | play as player cheat will probably not be happy, but i dont care |
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| 09:26 | <Zr40|work> | who's managing the channel bot? :) |
| 09:27 | <TrueBrain> | who wants to know? |
| 09:27 | |-| | SpBot [terom@zapotekII.paivola.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] |
| 09:27 | |-| | SpBot [terom@zapotekII.paivola.fi] has joined #openttd |
| 09:28 | <Zr40|work> | I do :) |
| 09:28 | <Rubidium> | well, ChanServ and NickServ are both OFTC |
| 09:28 | <TrueBrain> | Zr40|work: for what do you want to know? |
| 09:28 | <Zr40|work> | those aren't actually present in this channel, are they? |
| 09:29 | <Zr40|work> | TrueBrain: I'm looking for a suitable bot on another channel |
| 09:29 | <TrueBrain> | Supybot! :) |
| 09:29 | <SpComb> | SpBot! :) |
| 09:29 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | how much you gonna pay? :p |
| 09:29 | <Zr40|work> | guess :P |
| 09:29 | <TrueBrain> | or you want one of ours joining your chanenl?! :) |
| 09:30 | <Eddi|zuHause2> | 2000€/month? |
| 09:30 | <Zr40|work> | TrueBrain: no, I'll run it myself - private network |
| 09:30 | <Zr40|work> | Eddi|zuHause2: more like 0 :) |
| 09:30 | <TrueBrain> | Zr40|work: either eggdrop or supybot |
| 09:30 | <TrueBrain> | I like supybot, python, more flexible |
| 09:31 | <TrueBrain> | eggdrop is a bit easier to set up, but is tcl |
| 09:31 | <Zr40|work> | too bad the supybot website seems to be having proxy problems |
| 09:31 | <TheJosh> | i have a wikipedia bot if anyone wants it |
| 09:31 | <TheJosh> | its allowed to do 1 edit every 15 secs |
| 09:32 | <TheJosh> | good ol' TheJoshBot |
| 09:32 | <TheJosh> | anyway im off (bed) |
| 09:32 | <TheJosh> | enough c++ for one night |
| 09:32 | <TheJosh> | patch is almost done, so exciting! |
| 09:32 | <TheJosh> | cya all |
| 09:32 | <TrueBrain> | night TheJosh |
| 09:32 | |-| | TheJosh [~josh@d220-238-163-55.dsl.vic.optusnet.com.au] has left #openttd [] |
| 09:33 | <@peter1138> | hmm |
| 09:34 | <SpComb> | http://zapotekii.paivola.fi/~terom/stuff/spbot_web_prefs.png <-- sign up for an SpBot user account today (to gain access to funky form things that look cool)! |
| 09:36 | <Hendikins> | Firefox 1.5. How Quaint. |
| 09:42 | <eekee> | I sometimes think of going back to 1.5 for the smaller memory footprint, but I don't think it would be that much different |
| 09:43 | <SpComb> | I have 2.0 on my desktop, but haven't yet noticed enough of a difference between the two to upgrade this |
| 09:44 | <eekee> | Well I just upgraded as part of upgrading SMGL one time, but restoring session after crash/quit is worth it for me |
| 09:44 | |-| | SteamWilly [webmaster@dslb-084-062-151-100.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Ich bin so betrunken - ich sollte nicht mehr fahren... ... Ich bin aber besoffen und man soll nicht auf besoffene hören.] |
| 09:54 | <eekee> | how do you cancel shared orders? |
| 09:54 | <@peter1138> | 'delete' the shared order line |
| 09:54 | <@peter1138> | great ui isn't it? |
| 09:55 | <eekee> | heheh ty |
| 09:57 | <Hendikins> | Isn't it sad that I can tell by just looking at the theme? :P |
| 10:04 | |-| | Zr40|work [~Zirconium@193.173.155.88] has quit [Quit: Leaving] |
| 10:10 | <Touqen> | It's beyond sad,. |
| 10:11 | <Hendikins> | I do QA, support, docs and third party builds. It is excusable, but still sad. |
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| 10:44 | <stillunknown> | I was wondering if goto statements are bad for performance. |
| 10:45 | <hylje> | they are bad for maintainability |
| 10:45 | <Maedhros> | why would they be? i'd assume they'd be closer to the actual machine code than a lot of C++ stuff |
| 10:45 | <Nickman> | depends on how you use em stillunknown |
| 10:46 | <Nickman> | goto's are not very efficiënt, because in some languages they rescan the entire d |
