TheGrebs.com:IRC Logs:#openttd:2007:06:04

---	Log	opened Mon Jun 04 00:00:51 2007
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01:34	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: miham * r10031 /trunk/src/lang/ (15 files): (log message trimmed)
01:34	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-06-04 08:32:00
01:34	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: brazilian_portuguese - 33 fixed by tucalipe (33)
01:34	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: bulgarian - 25 fixed by thetitan (25)
01:34	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: catalan - 31 fixed by arnaullv (31)
01:34	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: czech - 28 fixed by Hadez (28)
01:34	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: dutch - 12 fixed by webfreakz (12)
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02:03	<boekabart>	good morning
02:03	<Noldo>	morning
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03:08	<Kage>	hi, i got a problem with openttd compiled from svn, did someone can help me?
03:08	<boekabart>	i'll try
03:08	<boekabart>	it never hurts to help - Eek!
03:09	<hylje>	just ask, don't ask to ask
03:09	<boekabart>	come to the point already :)
03:09	<Kage>	boekabart: ok, i just got a sigfault after strart ./openttd
03:09	<boekabart>	did you apply any patch?
03:10	<Kage>	no
03:10	<boekabart>	ok. do you run it from the svn BIN folder, and did you add the original game grf files?
03:10	<Kage>	i updated it 10 seconds befor)
03:10	<Kage>	yes, i got grf files
03:11	<boekabart>	was it a fresh checkout or one used before?
03:11	<Kage>	i have run windows version of openttd under wine with this files
03:11	<boekabart>	try to delete the openttd.cfg file
03:12	<Kage>	why?
03:12	<@peter1138>	"did someone can help me"? strange english...
03:12	<boekabart>	because you get a segfault!
03:12	<boekabart>	so you have to try things to solve it :)
03:12	<Kage>	ok, i'll try now
03:12	<boekabart>	or rename it if you don't want to lose it
03:13	<Kage>	delete from trunk/bin/data or from trunk/data ??
03:14	<boekabart>	trunk/bin
03:14	<boekabart>	you have a trunk/data folder?
03:14	<boekabart>	all data should go in trunk/bin/data , then run from trunk/bin
03:15	<boekabart>	peter1138: do you have 5 mins to chat about the deep-sea thing?
03:16	<@peter1138>	nope
03:16	<boekabart>	@work?
03:16	<@peter1138>	yes
03:17	<Kage>	boekabart: now it say what openttd.grf file is corrupted or missing
03:17	<hylje>	you are on irc
03:17	<boekabart>	Kage: that ain't right :(
03:18	<Kage>	boekabart: looks so
03:18	<boekabart>	how can it not find openttd.grf if you svn up ped just now and run from the right location :/
03:23	<Kage>	boekabart: maybe i need to checkout the bin/data dir directly ?
03:23	<hylje>	nah
03:23	<hylje>	its recursive
03:23	<hylje>	you probably have it corrupted
03:23	<boekabart>	on *x one also runs openttd from the bin folder, right?
03:23	<hylje>	try again on another checkout
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03:24	<@peter1138>	if you copied the old data files over what was downloaded then it'll get upset...
03:24	<boekabart>	Kage right... try svn revert * in thee bin/data folder
03:25	<boekabart>	-e
03:25	<Nickman>	hi all
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03:28	<Kage>	boekabart: huh, now all fine with openttd.grf
03:28	<Kage>	boekabart: but i got sigfault anyway
03:29	<Noldo>	recompile
03:29	<Kage>	i recompiled it a milion of time!
03:30	<Kage>	with gcc-4.0.3 and gcc-3.4.6
03:31	<boekabart>	is there any way you can debug and see WHERE it segfaults?
03:32	<Kage>	i can give you an output of gdb
03:32	<boekabart>	that won't tell me anything I'm afraid. So, the revert did something, right?
03:32	<boekabart>	and you did delete the cfg file from the trunk/bin folder?
03:34	<Kage>	what is cfg file ?
03:36	<Kage>	ls bin
03:36	<Kage>	data lang openttd save scenario scripts
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03:39	<Kage>	boekabart: there is no openttd.cfg in bin folder
03:39	<boekabart>	i'm lost
03:40	<hylje>	cfg file is created when ottd runs
03:42	<Kage>	so i never run becaus i'll always got a segmentation fault!
03:42	<Zuu>	The cfg is created when ottd exits in a controled way.
03:43	<Zuu>	(could be before too, but atleast it writes to it when it exits)
03:43	<boekabart>	Zuu: I think you're right
03:43	<boekabart>	anyway..
03:43	<boekabart>	I have no idea why Kage crashes
03:43	<Kage>	there output
03:44	<Kage>	%src/openttd/svn/trunk/bin # ./openttd
03:44	<Kage>	MD5 of TRGT.GRF is **INCORRECT** - File Corrupt.
03:44	<Kage>	mcop warning: user defined signal handler found for SIG_PIPE, overriding
03:44	<Kage>	segmentation fault
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03:46	<Kage>	gdb says:
03:46	<Kage>	%src/openttd/svn/trunk/bin # ./openttd
03:46	<Kage>	MD5 of TRGT.GRF is **INCORRECT** - File Corrupt.
03:46	<Kage>	mcop warning: user defined signal handler found for SIG_PIPE, overriding
03:46	<Kage>	segmentation fault
03:46	<Kage>	oops not that
03:47	<TrueBrain>	please use http://paste.openttd.org/
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03:47	<boekabart>	well Kage ... get better data files :?
03:48	<Kage>	gdb says:
03:48	<Kage>	[root@k bin][root@k bin]# gdb openttd
03:48	<Kage>	(gdb) run
03:48	<Kage>	Starting program: /src/openttd/svn/trunk/bin/openttd
03:48	<Kage>	[New Thread 16384 (LWP 2924)][New Thread 16384 (LWP 2924)]
03:48	<Kage>	MD5 of TRGT.GRF is **INCORRECT** - File Corrupt.
03:48	<Kage>	mcop warning: user defined signal handler found for SIG_PIPE, overriding
03:48	<Kage>	Program received signal SIGSEGV, Segmentation fault.
03:48	<Kage>	[Switching to Thread 16384 (LWP 2924)][Switching to Thread 16384 (LWP 2924)]
03:48	<Kage>	0x40326f89 in free () from /usr/lib/libc.so.6
03:48	<Kage>	(gdb)
03:48	<boekabart>	stop that
03:48	<hylje>	corrupted files
03:49	<TrueBrain>	Kage: I did ask you to use the pastebin, didn't I?
03:49	<Kage>	but 0.4.8 works fine this that files
03:49	<hylje>	you are using dos grfs? :o
03:49	<Kage>	yes
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03:50	<boekabart>	that shouldn't matter right? or?
03:53	<Kage>	how can i find the point in program code there the segfault is?
03:54	[~]	boekabart has 0 experience debugging on linux
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03:56	<Kage>	maybe some one know the place there i can get the right TRGT.GRF file?
03:56	<boekabart>	(cliche mode) on the original CD!
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03:57	<@peter1138>	bt (backtrace)
03:57	<@peter1138>	but it's only useful with a debug build
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03:58	<Kage>	its about 16000 possibilities for bt
03:58	<boekabart>	man bt :)
03:59	<TrueBrain>	boekabart: no, 'bt' in gdb, so that wouldn't do you any good
03:59	<boekabart>	ow
03:59	<Kage>	:)
03:59	<boekabart>	too bad gdb doesn't have a man fn built in then :)
04:00	<@peter1138>	it has help
04:00	<@peter1138>	like, 'help bt'
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04:37	<TheJosh>	hey all
04:43	<TheJosh>	i am having a small dilema. basically, my loading indicators thing is working, but it uses 'text effects' text effects are those things that float up when you buy something. the problem is, there is a limit of 30 text effects for the entire map. thats ok, because its just a constant, but in a game where you could have 500 trains or 1000 trains, even 100 text effects just doesnt seem like enough, because with 1000 trains, there could ea
04:44	<hylje>	there could ea
04:45	<TheJosh>	think #openttdcoop
04:50	<TheJosh>	i could just crank the number way up...im calculating the struct size right now
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04:51	<TheJosh>	how many bytes does an Enum usually use? smallest possible?
04:52	<Sionide>	extend the text effects code to support more ??
04:52	<Sionide>	mhmm.. back later
04:52	<TheJosh>	Sionide: easy - change a constante
04:53	<TheJosh>	but may not be best way...struct is 34 bytes per element
04:53	<TheJosh>	currently 30 elements (1020 bytes or just under 1kb)
04:54	<TheJosh>	at 100 elements its 3400 bytes or 3.3kb
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04:54	<Rubidium>	TheJosh: enums are usually sizeof(int)
04:55	<TheJosh>	but to have a suitable figure that could handle 1000 trains, say 350 elements...11900 bytes (11.62 kb)
04:55	<TheJosh>	Rubidium: i just learnt that, but thanks. is 12 kb too much for texteffects?
04:57	<Rubidium>	1000 trains on a single screen getting paid at (almost) exactly the same time?
04:57	<TheJosh>	no. its loading indicators. the 'paid' thingo beuing used to show how full the train is
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04:58	<TheJosh>	it needs to be a big enough array to hold a reasonable number of trains loading/unloading at once, and things being bought too
04:59	<Rubidium>	I'd say you should do some "profiling" on how many vehicles are loading/unloading at the same time in a very big game
05:00	<TheJosh>	#openttdcoop it is then!
05:00	<Rubidium>	Pile :)
05:00	<TheJosh>	pile ?
05:01	<Rubidium>	Pile Transport was (maybe still is) openttdcoop's biggest network
05:02	<TheJosh>	are you a #openttdcoop player?
05:02	<Rubidium>	only spectator (when they have desyncs)
05:03	<TheJosh>	1005 trains! so i can assume thats as big as openttd scales?
05:03	<Rubidium>	and that was from before YAPF
05:04	<TheJosh>	crazy!
05:04	<TheJosh>	the save is 2.1mb
05:04	<@peter1138>	is the max vehicles 64k currently?
05:05	<Rubidium>	yes
05:05	<@peter1138>	savegame wise
05:05	<@peter1138>	i seem to remember something about a smaller limit there
05:05	<Rubidium>	but that (ofcourse) includes smoke and wagons, artic parts etc.
05:05	<TheJosh>	but 1005 is the highest recorded acheivement
05:05	<TheJosh>	there is also CPU and RAM limits
05:05	<TheJosh>	that game advises 'dont turn on NPF'
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05:07	<@peter1138>	ah, the limit is not smaller, just commented on, heh
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05:25	<TheJosh>	error: ‘STR_NUM_IN_STATIONS’ was not declared in this scope. how do i fix this? STR_NUM_IN_STATIONS is a string in english.txt
05:25	<boekabart>	let the langs 'recompile' ?
05:25	<boekabart>	you'll get a new string.h
05:26	<TheJosh>	they did compile though
05:26	<boekabart>	typo maybe?
05:26	<TheJosh>	file doesnt include string.h
05:26	<boekabart>	it should then
05:27	<TheJosh>	still didnt help
05:27	<@peter1138>	table/strings.h
05:27	<TheJosh>	thanks
05:27	<TheJosh>	knew it would be something simple. thanks :)
05:32	<TheJosh>	how can i share a variable accross files? i am not very good at c++ (although making patches helps heaps!)
05:32	<TheJosh>	i defined it in openttd.h (its only a hack so i dont care whre it belongs)
05:32	<TheJosh>	int _in_station_count;
05:33	<@peter1138>	nope
05:33	<@peter1138>	that declares a new variable for each file that includes openttd.h
05:33	<@peter1138>	you need extern in the header
05:33	<@peter1138>	and then a real one in your cpp file
05:34	<TheJosh>	so extern int _in_station_count; in openttd.h
05:34	<@peter1138>	yes
05:34	<TheJosh>	and int _in_station_count in say veichle.cpp
05:34	<boekabart>	that is correct
05:34	<TheJosh>	thanks (yet another big build)
05:35	<@peter1138>	the declaration should be in the associated .h file though
05:35	<@peter1138>	so if it's in vehicle.cpp it should go in vehicle.h
05:36	<TheJosh>	its only so i can count how many veichles are in stations at any one time (in pile) so i know how big to make my limit for texteffects
05:36	<Zuu>	I've seen VARDEF used instead of "extern" in some places if I read it correctly.
05:36	<@peter1138>	VARDEF is deprecated
05:36	<Zuu>	Okay.
05:36	<@peter1138>	cos it's a pain in the arse :)
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05:37	<boekabart>	#define VARDEF extern
05:37	<boekabart>	(ifndeffed before)
05:38	<Zuu>	peter1138: Good to know.. go and fix src/sigs.h then ;)
05:39	<Zuu>	src/signs.h*
05:40	<@peter1138>	go ahead
05:40	<Zuu>	:)
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06:39	<boekabart>	peter1138: how is VARDEF defined if defined outsite openttd code? (why pain @ ass?)
06:41	<@peter1138>	...
06:41	<@peter1138>	it's a pain because it means the header files do different things depending on where they're included from
06:42	<boekabart>	ah, sometimes they are extern sometimes not?
06:43	<@peter1138>	yes
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06:53	<boekabart>	excellent solution, that VARDEF. No-one ever considered patching it?
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07:09	<@peter1138>	patching it?
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07:17	<boekabart>	well removing all the vardef
07:17	<boekabart>	and adding the implementations to the appropriate cpp files
07:25	<@peter1138>	yes
07:25	<@peter1138>	but it's a big job
07:29	<boekabart>	it's done
07:29	<hylje>	gj
07:30	<boekabart>	http://boekabart.googlepages.com/bb_removeVARDEF.diff
07:32	<hylje>	s/VARDEF/extern/g
07:32	<boekabart>	well that's part of it
07:32	<boekabart>	but the linking of them had to be added to the (appropriate) cpp files too
07:33	<@peter1138>	+/* variables that used to be VARDEFfed in ai.h */
07:33	<@peter1138>	+ AIStruct _ai;
07:33	<@peter1138>	why is that indented?
07:33	<boekabart>	what? the space?
07:33	<@peter1138>	yeah
07:33	<boekabart>	the spaces are artefacts...
07:33	<boekabart>	removing them as we speak
07:33	<hylje>	s/ //g
07:33	<@peter1138>	ah, k
07:33	<@peter1138>	network.cpp is ugly
07:34	<hylje>	network code is hard
07:34	<@peter1138>	not your fault, it just is
07:34	<Phazorx>	hmm.. client just asserted
07:34	<Phazorx>	while trying to rename vehicle group
07:35	<boekabart>	http://boekabart.googlepages.com/bb_removeVARDEF_v2_r10031.diff
07:35	<Phazorx>	probably MU related
07:36	<boekabart>	hope it works (the diff) I edited the patch file by hand
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07:36	<boekabart>	replaced "\n+ " with "\n+"
07:36	<boekabart>	that better?
07:37	<boekabart>	made a little script that did it for me, just had to do about 6 cpp files by hand (there was no equally named cpp file for those h files)
07:38	<Phazorx>	can't test that locally... but - 1. create network game 2. login 2 client 3. client 1 creates "group 1" 4. client 2 creates "group 2" 5. both clients click rename 6. one who OKs rename 1st works, one who renames second asserts
07:38	<boekabart>	are the comment OK, or other suggestions for them?
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07:40	<Zuu>	boekabart: Nice work with the VARDEF stuff. :)
07:40	<boekabart>	hope it was a useful way to spend my lunch break
07:41	<hylje>	:>
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07:42	<boekabart>	it compiles and links (msvc), so i guess it's complete
07:43	<Zuu>	I'll try to compile on gcc.
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07:43	<hylje>	same
07:46	<Zuu>	compiles, links and run here
07:47	<hylje>	seconded
07:48	<boekabart>	only thing to confirm now is that I put the questionable ones in the right cpp file
07:48	<TheJosh>	i have done some testing
07:48	<boekabart>	gui.h and variables.h went into openttd.cpp ; for the other ones I preferred 1) same_name 2) name_cmd.cpp 3) name_gui.cpp
07:49	<TheJosh>	pile (1005 trains) averages about 120 in the station at any one time, with a max figure of 148 at the moment
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08:40	<Thomas[NL]>	how do you make another roadtype always available like normal road now is?
08:42	<Rubidium>	using GetPlayerRoadtypes I think
08:43	<Thomas[NL]>	already played a bit with that but couldn't find out how :/
08:44	<hylje>	highway!
08:44	<hylje>	speed limitzzz
08:44	<boekabart>	speed cameras!
08:44	<hylje>	yeah
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08:44	<boekabart>	income: so much. running cost: less. speeding tickets: $$ ;)
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08:46	<Thomas[NL]>	SETBIT(rt, HASBIT(ei->misc_flags, EF_ROAD_TRAM) ? ROADTYPE_TRAM : ROADTYPE_ROAD) means setbit rt to x if there are trams available otherwise set it to y (for only normal roads) ?
08:47	<Thomas[NL]>	x=1 y=0 ?
08:48	<Rubidium>	means set the "HASBIT(....) ? RT_T : RT_R"th bit of rt
08:50	<Rubidium>	so the 2nd (if you count from 1) when it's a tram and the first when it's a "normal" road vehicle
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09:06	<Thomas[NL]>	hmm I got ROADTYPE_XXX = 3, and rt is set to 1001 (or 1011 with trams) but the construction-menu is still greyed out
09:07	<Thomas[NL]>	~(p->avail_roadtypes \| 1) gives 10 ( I don't now what this line exactly does)
09:07	<Rubidium>	you set the fourth bit
09:09	<Thomas[NL]>	ok now it works...
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09:50	<Phazorx>	does presistent egines controls tram behavior?
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09:52	<@peter1138>	it will do the same for trams as it does for other vehicles
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10:22	<Thomas[NL]>	how to get the MD5 hash of a file in a format used in files.h ?
10:22	<+glx>	md5sum file
10:23	<Rubidium>	and add a ", " every two nibbles
10:23	<+glx>	and 0x before each :)
10:24	<Thomas[NL]>	ah ok :)
10:24	<Sacro>	2 nibbles = a byte?
10:25	<boekabart>	s/b/p
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10:26	<Rubidium>	no, Nibbles is a computer game made by Microsoft
10:26	<Thomas[NL]>	wow it works
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10:31	<Thomas[NL]>	hmm the normal road sprites are not defined in sprites.h?
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10:33	<@peter1138>	a lot of sprites aren't
10:34	<boekabart>	Thomas[NL]: SPR_ROAD_X and others aren't what you're looking for?
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10:35	<Thomas[NL]>	yes but where are the crossings, elevations etc
10:35	<boekabart>	hardcoded offsets.. :(
10:36	<+glx>	SPR_CROSSING_OFF_X_RAIL then magic offsets :)
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11:01	<@Bjarni>	hi fellow humans
11:02	<moe>	i .. am .. robot..
11:02	[~]	Sacro hugs Bjarni HELLO
11:03	<@Bjarni>	yikes
11:03	<@Bjarni>	Sacro: I didn't greet you since you are an alien
11:03	<Sacro>	Bjarni: well your infected now
11:03	<hylje>	infested
11:03	<hylje>	;_M
11:04	<Thomas[NL]>	what stands DDSP for in DDSP_PLACE_ROAD_NW ?
11:04	<@Bjarni>	with what?
11:04	<@Bjarni>	English germs?
11:04	<Rubidium>	Hullish ofcourse
11:04	<@Bjarni>	sounds bad
11:04	<+glx>	Thomas[NL]: Drag and drop selection process
11:05	<hylje>	u dun wan to no
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11:05	<Thomas[NL]>	glx, ok thank you
11:05	<+glx>	it's in the header ;)
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11:07	<Sionide>	bloody'ell
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11:07	<Sionide>	http://www.bbc.co.uk/london/content/articles/2007/06/04/2012_new_logo_feature.shtml
11:07	<Sionide>	that's the london 2012 olympics logo?!
11:07	<Sionide>	http://www.bbc.co.uk/london/content/images/2007/06/04/sean_stayte_raw_300x300.jpg <- i prefer this re-make ;)
11:07	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: glx * r10032 /trunk/src/ (4 files in 2 dirs): -Add: sort the strings in server language dropdown
11:08	<@Bjarni>	I don't like any of them
11:10	<hylje>	you better liek goatse
11:13	<@Bjarni>	...
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11:14	<@Bjarni>	why not just use the logo that is already there
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11:25	<moe>	both for 2012 aint good one lookes like 212.0 and one in undefinable.
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11:26	<Wolf01>	hello
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11:39	<Unaimed>	Who can accept my flyspray new user creation?
11:39	<@peter1138>	you
11:40	<Unaimed>	am i not supposed to get a confirmation email, which i havent
11:40	<+glx>	Unaimed: check in junk mail
11:41	<Unaimed>	the junk mail filters are all turned to off
11:41	<Unaimed>	and no mail in junk mail
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11:45	<Unaimed>	I supposed someone had to "accept" because this is shown at the new user screen: "IF YOU ENTER FAKE DETAILS, YOU WILL NOT RECEIVE YOUR CODE."
11:45	<Unaimed>	does it accept @hotmail.com adresses?
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11:51	<Thomas[NL]>	can someone explain line 358-361 of road_gui.cpp ?
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11:57	<Unaimed>	It appears that flyspray doesn't like hotmail.com, or hotmail.com doesn't like flyspray
11:58	<Unaimed>	my global preferences need to be accepted by someone
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12:03	<Thomas[NL]>	or can someone just explain what (_cur_roadtype << 3) does ?
12:03	<stillunknown>	Bjarni: about the cache thing, is convincing you enough or do i need to poke other people too?
12:05	<stillunknown>	Thomas[NL]: bitshift the variable _cur_roadtype 3 times
12:06	<stillunknown>	Which should be equivalent to _cur_roadtype * 8 (in almost all cases)
12:07	<Rubidium>	stillunknown: you're making it horribly complex for Thomas[NL] with those multiplications
12:07	<Rubidium>	it's just that you've got 2 times 32 'bits' to put all information for a command in.
12:07	<Rubidium>	in this case multiple "variables" are put together into a single variable
12:08	<Thomas[NL]>	I think I get it :)
12:08	<stillunknown>	Rubidium: I said bitshift 3 times and multiply by 8, since each bitshift is essentially a factor 2
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12:09	<stillunknown>	I just wanted to be as complete as i could be.
12:09	<Rubidium>	stillunknown: in essence maybe, but bitshifts shouldn't be (directly) used for arithmetics
12:09	<Rubidium>	if you want to multiply something by 8 you should write x * 8, not x << 3
12:10	<Rubidium>	if you want to stuff some bits into a variable at different places you should used bitshifts and not multiplication
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12:11	<Thomas[NL]>	Is it a problem I added another road type so _cur_roadtype is bigger ?
12:11	<Luukland>	Heya
12:11	<Luukland>	is there a program that is able to copy pieces of a scenario map? So I can copy the landscape?
12:12	<Rubidium>	anyway, in the case where Thomas[NL] is looking at _place_road_flag has 3 "significant" bits, _cur_roadtypes has 2 "significant" bits
12:12	<Rubidium>	Thomas[NL]: where did you add it, or rather how did you add it?
12:12	<Rubidium>	are you just using ROADTYPE_HWAY?
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12:12	<Thomas[NL]>	road.h
12:12	<Thomas[NL]>	No i'm not using HWAY
12:12	<Rubidium>	you should do
12:12	<Rubidium>	there is only place for 3 roadtypes on the map
12:13	<Thomas[NL]>	ok
12:13	<Luukland>	someone here who can answer my question?
12:14	<skidd13>	Luukland: There is a copy and paste patch out in the forum. IIRC its called Build Templates
12:15	<Luukland>	great
12:15	<Thomas[NL]>	I don't think that is what you are searching for...
12:15	<Luukland>	if i make a scenario in nightly's will it be playable with OTTD 0.5.2?
12:16	<Rubidium>	no
12:16	<Luukland>	:P
12:16	<Luukland>	then it has no effect :)
12:16	<Rubidium>	Luukland: and what of the landscape do you want to copy?
12:18	<Luukland>	some islands
12:18	<Luukland>	just the land
12:19	<Luukland>	so i get 10 islands of the same shape :)
12:20	<Rubidium>	you could fiddle a little with heightmaps and a image editor
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12:20	<Rubidium>	and then load the heightmap in the scenario editor
12:20	[~]	Luukland does not know how to work with heightmaps
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12:23	<Thomas[NL]>	I remember one of the devs had a very cool patch where everyone had his one land on multiplayer
12:23	<Thomas[NL]>	one = own
12:23	<Rubidium>	that is/was far far from actually being finished
12:24	<@Belugas>	Luukland : http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=27052
12:24	<@Belugas>	how-to heighmaps
12:24	<Luukland>	I have found something different ^^
12:24	<@Belugas>	... "le sight" ...
12:24	<Luukland>	http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=25037&highlight=copy+paste+scenario
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12:26	<Luukland>	it doesn't work only
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12:28	<Rubidium>	that patch will fail horribly in trunk
12:28	<Luukland>	i know :P
12:28	<Luukland>	but i am using it on 5.2.0
12:29	<Rubidium>	why is it people always mess up the order of the digits in version numbers?
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12:30	<Sacro>	Rubidium: sort the numbers and put the highest first
12:31	<Rubidium>	OMFG why did RichK67 even think of including that piece of crap into MiniIN?
12:31	<Luukland>	i forgot the 0 only Rubidium
12:31	<Luukland>	it should be 0.5.2.0
12:31	<Luukland>	so 5.2.0 is kind of correct ^^
12:32	<Sacro>	no its not
12:32	<Sacro>	you can drop numbers on the right, but not the left
12:32	<Rubidium>	http://paste.openttd.org/78 <- who can simplify that?
12:33	<Luukland>	Sacro >_< :P
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12:37	<skidd13>	Rubiudium: Serious question!?
12:37	<Sacro>	skidd13: serious answer!
12:38	<Luukland>	Sacro: Serious?!
12:38	<Rubidium>	skidd13: no, not really as I'm not going to rewrite that crap or even thinking about accepting it ever in this state
12:39	<skidd13>	:) To another piece of code..... My order gui again ;) (this time without the icons) http://tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=31074&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=37
12:39	<Frostregen__>	bah :P
12:40	<Rubidium>	that's creepily large
12:40	<hylje>	hideous even
12:41	<skidd13>	It could be cut into 3 main parts. Skip order, move order, new gui with the new order display.
12:41	<skidd13>	The skip order part is already posted to flyspray.
12:45	<Rubidium>	what's the whole idea behind the skip to change?
12:45	<Frostregen__>	the next two weeks i have plenty of time, so if someone will guide me, i could rewrite the whole c&p
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12:46	<Frostregen>	the rotating stuff could be done with some table, i guess
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12:46	<skidd13>	The idea is skip to selected order. I changed the name also cause it's more descriptive.
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12:48	<skidd13>	Skip could mean more. Quite the same as you say the icons, can be understood diffrent... ;)
12:48	<hylje>	:o
12:49	<Rubidium>	but do we actually want/need to have that?
12:50	<Luukland>	not really
12:50	<skidd13>	It was suggested a few times in the forum.
12:50	<Rubidium>	how often do you actually use the skip station button?
12:51	<skidd13>	If I rebuild larger hubs, probably often. :(
12:51	<Rubidium>	why would you need to skip stations when rebuilding a hub?
12:52	<skidd13>	Traffic jams...
12:52	<Rubidium>	then you need to skip orders for your hundreds of vehicles
12:52	<Rubidium>	how would a traffic jam be solved by skipping orders?
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12:53	<skidd13>	no only the ones who are not going over the by-pass.
12:54	<Rubidium>	how can you reduce the number of vehicles going over a bypass by skipping orders?
12:56	<skidd13>	I wasn't talking about reducing them. I was talking about the ones who are between the departure of the bypass and the half demolishe hub.
12:56	<skidd13>	demolishe -> demolished
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12:58	<Rubidium>	so you want them to skip to the next station?
12:59	<skidd13>	No there are waypoints between. So I've to skip to the over-over-next station.
12:59	<skidd13>	Or even more.
12:59	<Rubidium>	that many waypoints in your hub?
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13:00	<skidd13>	Depends on the position of the hub. Not in the hub. I use them like speed signs.
13:01	<Rubidium>	anyhow, imo point-click is faster than point-click-point-click and even point-click-click-click-click is faster than point-click-point-click
13:01	<Rubidium>	speed signs?
13:02	<skidd13>	The thing from RichK. Or is it called routes? Allow only a group of vehicles to pass the sign...
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13:04	<skidd13>	Another reason for the skip to could be to balance the traffic after adding new trains to a shared order list.
13:04	<Rubidium>	yes
13:05	<Rubidium>	but most often you skip one, maybe two orders
13:05	<Rubidium>	which makes point-click-point-click pretty annoying (to me at least)
13:05	<skidd13>	As I said before depends on the style of building.
13:06	<Rubidium>	so, skip and skip to?
13:07	<skidd13>	Or what is if you click one time to much. You have to skip the who