TheGrebs.com:IRC Logs:#openttd:2007:05:24

---	Log	opened Thu May 24 00:00:02 2007
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00:21	<staniel>	im in love with the dinger 200
00:24	<staniel>	my best performer is netting me 1.5million a year
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00:28	<Jerub>	I'm still experimenting with the best ways to play this game.
00:28	<Jerub>	i was more than a little shocked to find out how much money I made moving passengers.
00:29	<Jerub>	and my problems with things like oil is that a) I make bucketloads of money, b) I need to run goods trains too, and c) I'm not good enough at designing high load intersections.
00:29	<boekabart>	don't be, the challenge isn't to make money, it's just to play and transport as much as you can
00:29	<boekabart>	and enjoy
00:29	<Jerub>	so do planes actually travel at their speed? or is it scaled back?
00:30	<boekabart>	not yet, i've understood
00:30	<boekabart>	they are working on it.
00:30	<Jerub>	Well, I'm certaintly enjoying.
00:30	<Jerub>	I'm playing on hard. It's good to be challenged.
00:31	<Jerub>	but the AI is terrible at Hard difficulty. it runs out of money and can't get a revenue stream going.
00:31	<boekabart>	try a 64x64 map on hard then, that might actually be a challenge
00:31	<boekabart>	the AI is terrible, period.
00:31	<Jerub>	Hard is defiantely a challenge.
00:31	<Jerub>	even on the 256x512 map I'm on.
00:31	<Jerub>	took me ages to get enough income to be able to build what I wanted to build.
00:31	<boekabart>	just make 1 long coal run, it'll supply all the cash you need
00:32	<Jerub>	boekabart: I ended up with 3 long coal runs. all to the same power station.
00:32	<Jerub>	that was fun :)
00:32	<staniel>	technically if you think about it though
00:33	<staniel>	about the planes speed, it shouldn't be able to travel the same speed as a road vehicle
00:33	<staniel>	with the curve of the earth, and the altitude that planes fly at....
00:33	<staniel>	makes it a much greater distance
00:33	<staniel>	then just doing the same stretch on flat land
00:34	<boekabart>	the scale in openttd isn't and will never be 'realistic'
00:34	<staniel>	ahh, but that could have nbeen the original idea
00:34	<Jerub>	Road vehicles are super frustrating.k
00:34	<boekabart>	you can come close by making a scenario of say your province, where you can get a 10 to 25 meter-per-square scale
00:34	<Jerub>	at least you can build multiple stations and join them in openttd
00:34	<boekabart>	max 51x51 km on 2048x2048 map
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00:35	<Jerub>	I mean multiple bus depots
00:35	<boekabart>	Jerub: no you don't, bus stops you mean
00:36	<Jerub>	sorry.
00:36	<boekabart>	51km -> and then you shouldn't use planes on a map that size :(
00:36	<Jerub>	bus stops
00:37	<Jerub>	bus loading bay, that's it.
00:38	<Jerub>	I sometimes use lorrys to take goods from a factory to a town that's close by.
00:38	<Jerub>	but the only positive benefit is it makes the town grow faster, it doesn't net me anything.
00:40	<boekabart>	costs you headaches. better transport the goods across the map to a far away city by trains. $$!
00:40	<Jerub>	on hard, breakdowns are so frequent :(
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00:42	<Jerub>	makes it interesting though.
00:42	<boekabart>	you need 4 line mainlines
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00:42	<Jerub>	you have to design train systems with the idea that you will need to route around trains.
00:42	<boekabart>	and 4 line mainlines suck without PDS
00:42	<boekabart>	PBS
00:43	<Jerub>	is that on by default?
00:43	<Jerub>	I think I have YPF on...
00:43	<boekabart>	it's not there anymore
00:43	<boekabart>	was never implemented for YAPF and for NPF they say it was buggy
00:44	<boekabart>	actually it did crash trains once in a while when editing the network. totally realistic, IMHO :)
00:45	<Jerub>	heh
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01:52	<marius->	uhm, what's the advantage of the signs with "plates" on them? :>
01:53	<hylje>	what
01:54	<marius->	err
01:54	<marius->	not too pro explanation i guess :F
01:54	<marius->	the advanced train-signals :p
01:56	<Jerub>	pre-signals
01:58	<boekabart>	marius-: there is a good article on the wiki.openttd.org about pre-signals
01:58	<Jerub>	http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Signals
01:59	<Jerub>	there are signals, entry, combo and exit signals
01:59	<Jerub>	entry signals are only green if one of the exit signals are green.
02:00	<Jerub>	combo signals are exit signals at the same time as being entry signals.
02:00	<boekabart>	(for example: a train won't try to enter the station until one platform is empty
02:00	<Jerub>	http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Image:Station_with_pre-signals2.png
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02:01	<Jerub>	boekabart: I am curious about one thing with pre signals.
02:02	<Jerub>	I have situations where I have a platform with multiple tracks, and I want a train to wait at the entry until there is a platform free.
02:02	<Jerub>	so say I have this.
02:03	<Jerub>	{one way entry presignal} -> 4 {two way exit signals}
02:03	<Jerub>	then have a single normal 1 way signal for exiting the station.
02:03	<Jerub>	what happens?
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02:19	<Biff>	Jerub: that sounds correct
02:24	<Jerub>	Biff: what does it do? go red when the station is full?
02:24	<boekabart>	Jerub: yes
02:24	<boekabart>	it ignores the normal sing
02:25	<boekabart>	only = green when at least 1 EXIT (white vertical panel) signal is green
02:25	<Biff>	yes
02:25	<Jerub>	okay, excellent.
02:25	<Jerub>	what happens when there are no exit signals? always green?
02:26	<boekabart>	try it
02:26	<boekabart>	i have no idea, but i think always green
02:26	<boekabart>	well not always, i think: behave like normal signal
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03:36	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: rubidium * r9907 /trunk/src/road_gui.cpp: -Codechange: prepare the road gui for more road types.
03:41	<@peter1138>	woo
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03:53	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: rubidium * r9908 /trunk/src/ (rail_gui.cpp road_gui.cpp station.h station_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: prepare the station picker for more road types.
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04:24	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: maedhros * r9909 /trunk/src/road_gui.cpp: -Fix (r9897): Highlight road tunnels properly when building them.
04:31	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: rubidium * r9910 /trunk/src/road_cmd.cpp: -Codechange: prepare road building/removing commands for more road types.
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05:16	<kaan>	goodmorning all
05:19	<Thomas[NL]>	good morning
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05:52	<hylje>	i just visited the uitp conf
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05:52	<Sionide>	ohh
05:52	<Sionide>	Rubidium, more road types eh? sounds interesting..
05:53	<Sionide>	is there a topic on this?
05:53	<skidd13>	I think it's because of trams.
05:53	<Sionide>	ah
05:54	<Sionide>	not motorways then?
05:55	<skidd13>	There was a tram patch a while ago. I think one of the devs has taken the job to complet it.
05:56	<hylje>	i believe more road types can get in later on
05:57	<hylje>	but for true road simulation we need gneric traffic
05:58	<skidd13>	How far are the new industries? Tourists are working already :)
05:59	<@Rubidium>	using statistics (like Wolf01 did) I estimate summer 2008
05:59	<hylje>	just in time for starcraft 2
05:59	<Maedhros>	tourists are generated by houses, so they have nothing to do with industries :)
05:59	<skidd13>	Oh...
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06:04	<skidd13>	What are the opinions of the dev's regarding my "new orders window" patch?
06:07	<Maedhros>	in my personal opinion, i far prefer text buttons to images
06:09	<@Rubidium>	imo the buttons aren't more clear than the current text.
06:10	<skidd13>	OK, I'll think over new icons.
06:11	<@Rubidium>	and the (extra) non-stop stuff doesn't get very clear either (adding go directly and 'stop everywhere')
06:13	<@Rubidium>	I'd say about that: remove the ttdp non-stop handling and have "go to" (normal behaviour), "go directly to" (don't stop at intermediate stations), "go via" (normal behaviour, but don't stop at the "via" station), "go directly via" (don't stop at intermediate and the "via" station)
06:14	<boekabart>	sounds good.
06:14	<boekabart>	very clear
06:14	<boekabart>	allthough go via (don't stop there but do stop at every other station on the way) is very weird)
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06:15	<skidd13>	Rubidium: Yes, sounds good. I'll give that a go.
06:16	<@peter1138>	go directly to == non-stop!
06:16	<@peter1138>	you will not change my non-stop
06:17	<@peter1138>	boekabart: "go via" is ttdp style non-stop :/
06:17	<boekabart>	peter1138: but admit that the current naming isn't always clear to the end user... maybe change the titles?
06:17	<@peter1138>	normal non-stop confuses some people who don't know what it means...
06:17	<boekabart>	exactly my point :)
06:17	<@peter1138>	non-stop is perfectly fine for native english speakers
06:17	<@peter1138>	whatever it gets translated to i don't care ;)
06:17	<boekabart>	non-stop , don't stop
06:18	<boekabart>	i have no idea actually which is 'non-stop' and which is "don't stop"
06:19	<skidd13>	I changed the naming because of the equal named patch one. Just a WIP.
06:19	<@Rubidium>	well, I don't care whether it's "non-stop" or "directly" and I'm not native English
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06:20	<boekabart>	no, non-stop is OK, but sometimes it means "don't stop" apparently ( Rubidium calls this via up there ).
06:20	<@Rubidium>	well, that's the problem with non-stop, it could also mean don't stop at the destination 'station'
06:21	<boekabart>	no, it can't mean that . in english. but in openttd sometimes it does.
06:21	<boekabart>	peter1138: agree?
06:21	<@Rubidium>	non-stop in ttdp means don't stop at the destination 'station' (IIRC)
06:22	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	i would totally misunderstand the word "via"
06:22	<boekabart>	but you're not native english :)
06:23	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	<boekabart> actually it did crash trains once in a while when editing the network. totally realistic, IMHO :) <- PBS was rejected because it crashed trains WITHOUT editing the network.
06:23	<Noldo>	To Joensuu via Kouvola and Lappeenranta
06:24	<Noldo>	would mean that the final destination is Joensuu but it stops in Kouvola and Lappeenranta which are on the way
06:25	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	that is exactly what i would read, too, but that is not the intended meaning here
06:25	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	here it would mean "treat Kouvola and Lappeenranta as waypoints (don't stop there)"
06:25	<Noldo>	yeah
06:26	<hylje>	Run through $STATION
06:27	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	and i predict that a million other users will misinterpret it the same way
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06:28	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	"pass through $STATION", i could live with that
06:29	<hylje>	well that's settled then
06:31	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	"Vorsicht auf Gleis 3, eine Durchfahrt"
06:32	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	[typical announcement on a german station][typical announcement on a german station]
06:32	<boekabart>	Eddi\|zuHause3: re pbs: still, realistic :)
06:32	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	but the game is not supposed to be realistic :p
06:33	<boekabart>	anyway.... it's gone for now
06:34	<hylje>	the game is business simulation
06:35	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	no, the game is transport simulation
06:35	<boekabart>	yeah... in real life, it matters very much whether coal is delivered within 1 or 4 days... not
06:35	<boekabart>	i don't like the fact that speed is of so much relevance when transporting coal.
06:36	<boekabart>	or ore, wood
06:36	<boekabart>	for passengers, goods, yes. but raws... neh
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06:37	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	i agree, raw freight should have practically no time dependence
06:37	<hylje>	warehousing! supply and demand!
06:37	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	so you could order a freight train to wait on a track, and let a express passenger train pass it
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06:39	<boekabart>	peter1138: Changed the water transparency: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=589437#589437
06:41	<skidd13>	awesome
06:41	<boekabart>	well better.. and with existing sprites
06:41	<skidd13>	I've to go back to wok. cya
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06:42	<hylje>	boekabart: :o
06:42	<hylje>	i take it we can't tint the tiles darker depending on depth?
06:43	<boekabart>	in a perfect 32bpp world, of course we can :)
06:43	<hylje>	yea
06:43	<boekabart>	well actually we can, but we need to add the darker water sprite then; and the edges will look... eh.
06:44	<boekabart>	and I'm not sure if the palette has deeper blues
06:44	<hylje>	:\
06:44	<hylje>	yes
06:44	<boekabart>	note that that shot is with transparency on; without it just looks all the same
06:44	<hylje>	maybe add that to the todo when we have proper 32bit
06:45	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	boekabart: can the grid be finer and extend over all (sea) water?
06:46	<boekabart>	finer: needs new sprites. extend all over: yes, but I chose not to do that :)
06:47	<boekabart>	I used the normal 'selection' sprites
06:47	<boekabart>	with 'transparency' palette modifier
06:47	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	yeah, i figured...
06:48	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	i just really dislike it this way...
06:49	<boekabart>	did you see it before
06:49	<boekabart>	?
06:50	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	the last transparent water i saw was with the brown ground sprites
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06:56	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	i believe the ground sprites and grid sprites should generally be separated
06:56	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	so you can turn the complete grid on and off like a transparency effect
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06:57	<boekabart>	Eddi\|zuHause3: good plan :)
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06:59	<@peter1138>	boekabart: now that is an interesting way of doing it
06:59	<boekabart>	do you like it?
07:00	<boekabart>	i've been playing with ways to do it for hours
07:00	<@peter1138>	yers
07:00	<boekabart>	this came out the best :)
07:00	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	yeah, the thought is good, but the result is "improveable" :)
07:00	<@peter1138>	yes
07:00	<boekabart>	better with thinner lines i guess
07:00	<@peter1138>	the sprites a...
07:00	<@peter1138>	exactly that
07:00	<@peter1138>	hmm
07:01	<@peter1138>	possibly with lines across the half slopes too
07:01	<@peter1138>	how many are needed? one of each tileh (er, Slope) i guess
07:01	<boekabart>	yep
07:01	<hylje>	actually i think the grid should "float" at sealevel while the terrain is shown as water tiles
07:02	<boekabart>	hylje: tried that, not as nice.
07:02	<boekabart>	actually i can't find tiles that look OK. only bare_land is somehow accetable.
07:03	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	if you plan to extend the grid thing to land tiles, maybe a different line for each tile edge (two per tile) might be better
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07:03	<@peter1138>	nah, draw all edges
07:03	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	so a half-slope coast tile could have different colours for the land part and the water part
07:03	<@peter1138>	but it can be a dotted line, such that when two edges are joined it looks like a single line
07:04	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	why all edges? the two other edges will be drawn with the neigbouring tiles
07:05	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	i think there's an 'h' missing :p
07:05	<hylje>	hhhhhhhhhhhhhh
07:05	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	english has totally weird spelling
07:06	<@peter1138>	loughborough
07:06	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	nothing is spelt like it is spoken
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07:22	<Jerub>	this is confusing
07:22	<Jerub>	I want to fund a water tower, but I can't seem to be able to
07:23	<Jerub>	"Site unsuitable"
07:23	<Jerub>	also, the message I get when I try to place it on a town building is "too close to another industry" which is a bit confusing too
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07:25	<@peter1138>	yeah, it needs to be built on a building... for some reason
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07:27	<Jerub>	oh, right
07:28	<Jerub>	so I had to build it on the far side of the town to the nearest other water tower
07:30	<Jerub>	gnnnr
07:30	<Jerub>	and the water well I chose was of course the lowest producing one on the map
07:32	<@peter1138>	hehe
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07:39	<Jerub>	!
07:39	<Jerub>	it went from 40 to 32
07:40	<Biff>	huh
07:40	<Biff>	i get textures from the small airport on the intercontinental
07:42	<Biff>	http://discrete.eimot.no/~magne/openttd/Gl%c3%b8slia%20Transport,%205th%20Mar%202006.png
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07:46	<@peter1138>	that's because the sprites are reused
07:50	<boekabart>	Is the following by design: when I build canals in scenario editor, they cannot be deleted (or overbuilt by dock/locks) in the game.
07:50	<boekabart>	This is a result of a change sometime in the past, where canals got owner_none instead of owner_water, when built in scenario editor
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07:54	[~]	boekabart hates his PC, rebooted twice in 15 minutes. hard.
07:54	<boekabart>	and yes it's a window PC.
07:54	<boekabart>	but I'm sure that has nothing to do with it
07:56	<boekabart>	did I miss the answer to my question?
07:56	<@peter1138>	no
07:57	<boekabart>	i'll keep waiting for it then ;)
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08:30	<@peter1138>	so
08:30	<@peter1138>	you're a legend now, boekabart :)
08:31	<boekabart>	right
08:31	<boekabart>	i'd rather become a legend by making 32bpp or pbs. This is too easy :)
08:32	<TrueBrain>	I rather just see a high amount of money wired to my account :p
08:33	<hylje>	make it work and go do 32bpp for kewl water transparency and tinting effects
08:33	<Biff>	hmm
08:33	<boekabart>	Actually, I made a 32bpp thing just to be abel to do cool effects
08:34	<boekabart>	(search forum for them)
08:37	<Osai^2>	hi all
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08:37	<boekabart>	that was a fast sqrt!
08:38	<boekabart>	actually it must mean Osai==1 :)
08:38	<TrueBrain>	or 0
08:39	<Osai>	(Osai^2)/Osai
08:40	<+glx>	can't be 0 then*
08:40	<Osai>	I don't want to be 0
08:41	\|-\|	boekabart changed nick to nul1
08:41	<nul1>	dammit
08:41	\|-\|	nul1 changed nick to boekabart
08:41	<Osai>	^nix
08:41	<boekabart>	i tried null
08:41	<boekabart>	not nul
08:41	<Osai>	lol
08:41	<boekabart>	/null hello?
08:41	<boekabart>	whoops
08:43	<Biff>	any reason why news that one ignores should be stored?
08:43	<@peter1138>	so you can go back and look at it
08:43	<@peter1138>	it still happened...
08:43	<Biff>	i dont want that to happen
08:43	<Biff>	it makes the backlog unusable for me
08:44	<Biff>	on a large map, there is so much spam, that its not practical to have everything there
08:44	<Biff>	maybe its just me
08:45	<Biff>	well, i patched it so they dont come up. but if people want it then its no use
08:45	<Biff>	maybe it could be configured
08:46	<@Belugas>	so basically, you would like to have the message history being filtered by messages that you turned off in message settings, if i read you well
08:46	<Biff>	Belugas: yes, thats what i did
08:46	<@Belugas>	sounds interesting
08:47	<boekabart>	make it a checkbox in the bottom, and done you are!
08:47	<boekabart>	it'll make you a legend, probably... :)
08:47	<Biff>	well, i did it in two ways, first i did it so it doesnt show the messages, but i think my last solution just to drop the messages are just as good
08:47	<Biff>	haha, i think not :-P
08:47	<Biff>	i just fixed something that annoyed me
08:48	[~]	boekabart the legend is going to fight traffic once again.
08:48	<Biff>	good luck
08:49	<Biff>	but do people really go back in old news that they have filtered?
08:53	<Biff>	maybe i should use the forum or something
09:10	<@Belugas>	personnally, i'll prefer to be able to toggle it on and off.
09:10	<@Belugas>	the reasons why some messages are not interesting at one point may not be tru latter in the game.
09:11	<@Belugas>	so having the option to go back is something to consider, imho
09:11	<Biff>	true, but the message capacity is a bit limited
09:12	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	you might make that limit a little more dynamic while you are there :p
09:12	<Biff>	maybe something like, shift click on the back log to see all types of messages
09:12	<Biff>	Eddi\|zuHause3: hehe, yeah
09:12	<Biff>	the news-items doesnt take all that much ram ;)
09:13	<Biff>	#define MAX_NEWS 30 is the current setting
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09:14	<Biff>	maybe it should be a linked list
09:15	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	linked lists are cache nightmares
09:16	<Biff>	oh
09:16	<Biff>	i didnt know
09:16	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	because basically every time you go list.next, you get a cache miss
09:16	<Biff>	yeah, i guess
09:17	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	this rarely happens if you use dynamic arrays
09:17	<Biff>	uhh. dynamic arrays?
09:17	<Biff>	like an array list?
09:17	<+glx>	maybe use memory pool
09:18	<Noldo>	array that grows in size when needed
09:18	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	no, like: if (array is full) { create new array of double size; copy existing entries}
09:19	<Biff>	Eddi\|zuHause3: yeah, but isnt that also quite slow?
09:19	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	if you do not have the luxury of a garbage collection, add "clear old array"
09:19	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	Biff: no, because the memory is one block, you get harldy any cache misses when you iterate through the array
09:20	<Biff>	i see
09:20	<TrueBrain>	http://devs.openttd.org/~truelight/art.png <- I made a modification for OpenTTD so everything is more art-alike
09:20	<TrueBrain>	you guys like it?
09:20	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	that can't be good :p
09:21	<Biff>	cute
09:21	<@peter1138>	nice ;p
09:22	<Biff>	hmm
09:22	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	reminds me of some old games
09:22	<Biff>	realloc(3) Oo
09:22	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	with 320x200 resolution
09:22	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	and 16 colours
09:23	<Biff>	those were the days
09:23	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	i believe EGA had a mode with 64 colours
09:27	<+glx>	CGA was better :P
09:27	<+glx>	4 colors
09:28	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	i heard the real gurus could switch palettes in the middle of the screen :)
09:37	<@peter1138>	more commonly done on 8bit computers
09:37	<@peter1138>	on the fly resolution switching too
09:37	<@peter1138>	it is quite troublesome for emulators...
09:39	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	yeah, it's a feature long forgotten in the 32bit days :)
09:43	<@peter1138>	hmm, kaan's patch
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09:53	<kaan>	peter1138<- you called?
09:53	<@peter1138>	on the phone
09:53	<kaan>	:P
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09:57	<@Belugas>	kaan, comment style wise : if comment is on its own line, without any code on it, please use /* blabla */
09:57	<@Belugas>	the // stuff is only used at the end of code line
09:57	<@Belugas>	although it's not like that everywhere, let's say we are trying to make the base code compliant
09:59	<kaan>	ok, ill change that then, im not that attached to // :)
10:00	<kaan>	afk
10:01	<kaan>	back
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10:21	<@peter1138>	heh
10:21	<@peter1138>	i'm reworking it anyway
10:22	<@peter1138>	you seem to have a penchant for deleting spacing lines though
10:22	<kaan>	me?
10:22	<@peter1138>	yes
10:22	<@peter1138>	}
10:22	<@peter1138>	-
10:22	<@peter1138>	bool VehicleNeedsService(const Vehicle *v)
10:22	<@peter1138>	eg
10:23	<kaan>	didn't notice that :)
10:23	<@peter1138>	but don't worry about it
10:23	[~]	peter1138 compiles
10:25	<@Belugas>	most of the time, users do not look at their patch before publishing it. and even after :)
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10:26	<+glx>	even when you point out the "style" problems and unneded changes
10:26	<kaan>	heh, i did read it and notice the -} +} but i couldnt for my life find it and correct it
10:26	<+glx>	the diff tells you where it is
10:27	<kaan>	maybe i should enable line numbering :P
10:27	<+glx>	you don't have a "goto line" command?
10:27	<kaan>	who knows, MSVS is a big program
10:28	<+glx>	just type ctrl-g
10:28	<kaan>	oh :)
10:30	<+glx>	ctrl-r ctrl-w is useful too
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10:52	<@peter1138>	hmm
10:52	<@peter1138>	can't get non-front to break down :-(
10:52	<@Rubidium>	does it age?
10:53	\|-\|	Ammler [~Ammler@77-56-223-177.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #openttd
10:55	<@peter1138>	no indiction atm
10:55	<@peter1138>	er
10:55	<@peter1138>	no indication atm
10:58	<TinoM>	!version
10:58	<TinoM>	!revision
10:59	<TinoM>	!blog
10:59	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	!whatareyoutryingtodo
10:59	<TinoM>	d'oh ^^
10:59	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	tip: /topic
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10:59	<TinoM>	ah, sorry, wrong channel ;)
11:01	<@peter1138>	heh
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11:04	<MeusH>	hello
11:07	<TrueBrain>	hi MeusH
11:07	<kaan>	peter, it is useful to reenable black smoke on secondary to verify breakdowns
11:07	<MeusH>	hey, how's AI?
11:08	<TrueBrain>	slow :p
11:08	<kaan>	eighter that or you could disable service on secondary and then go look it up later
11:08	<MeusH>	uh
11:08	<MeusH>	how about other projects?
11:08	<TrueBrain>	slow :p
11:08	<kaan>	hehe
11:08	<kaan>	slow is good :)
11:08	<TrueBrain>	not really
11:08	<TrueBrain>	or rather: depends on who you ask :p
11:09	<TrueBrain>	if you ask my roommates, they would agree with you, as it means I have more time for them :p
11:09	<kaan>	well, if you refer to the sudden slowness of the head rev then its not too good
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11:11	<@peter1138>	kaan: yes
11:11	<TrueBrain>	for who ever is using git, we have some bad news, we are currently reimporting the whole SVN; make sure to make good backups of your git, and reclone/rebase when we are done :p
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11:13	<Biff>	hmmm, is there a way to list industries by type?
11:13	<TrueBrain>	click on the sort buttons
11:14	<Biff>	oh, just found the list industries window
11:14	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	there should be filter buttons as well
11:14	<Biff>	:p
11:16	<Biff>	yeah, probably
11:16	<Biff>	2048*2048 is a bit too big for me
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11:17	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	just use the new "really extremely few industries" setting :)
11:18	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	i should try a trunk game again, and constantly bitch about the lack of PBS :p
11:18	<Biff>	oh, is there something like that?
11:18	<@Belugas>	bitching? yes, constantly :P
11:19	<Biff>	i wrote that in <1s
11:19	<Biff>	;)
11:19	<Biff>	no, i meant really extreme few industries
11:20	<@Belugas>	cannot go lower than that, sorry. The other option is no industries, and you watch them get built overtime
11:21	<@Belugas>	but be aware that the whle industry chain will not be available as a sudden...
11:21	<@Belugas>	like factories without farms and steel mills,
11:22	<@Belugas>	or steel mills without iron ore mines...
11:23	<@Belugas>	pretty amusing :) you're stuck at building up your network for passengers/mail only
11:24	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	it's like you're starting in 1800 or so :)
11:25	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	is the last DBSetXL release really 2 years old?
11:26	<Sleepie>	yep 5th may 2005
11:27	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	hm, i only have TTRS v2
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11:34	<@peter1138>	bah
11:34	<@peter1138>	vista business edition in qemu = fail
11:34	<@peter1138>	won't install :(
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11:36	<SpComb>	is buisness edition expensive enough to be legally used in a virtual machine?
11:38	<@peter1138>	hmm?
11:39	<@peter1138>	hmm, seems to do more when starting it manually (rather than using qemu-launcher)
11:39	<SpComb>	http://linux.dell.com/ o/
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11:39	<boekabart>	any can be used legally AS a vm os
11:39	<boekabart>	just might not be supported
11:40	<Sionide>	SpComb, shit hardware though..
11:40	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	[2][2]+ Speicherzugriffsfehler bin/openttd (wd: ~/spiele/OpenTTD)
11:40	<SpComb>	Sionide: Dell provides linux support for said hardware, though
11:40	<SpComb>	which is quite something
11:40	<Sionide>	broadcom and ati
11:40	<Sionide>	:\
11:40	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	(i was closing the newgrf window on the main menu)
11:40	<@peter1138>	Speicherzugriffsfehler? :p
11:41	<Sionide>	♫♪♩♬ Air Traffic - Charlotte
11:41	<@peter1138>	SpComb: heh, i just installed 7.04 the other day. works nicely
11:41	<SpComb>	peter1138: I'm planning on installing 7.04 some day, once I feel like booting out of windows
11:41	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	(this probalby translates as "segmentation fault")
11:41	<@peter1138>	but my winxp partition won't boot in qemu either :(
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11:44	<@peter1138>	hmm, vmware-player maybe...
11:44	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	i think i can reproduce this
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11:45	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	start game, open newgrf window, add grf, refresh list, choose a grf, add it, close newgrf window
11:45	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	can anyone confirm this?
11:45	<@peter1138>	any grf?
11:45	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	i think it works with any grf
11:46	<@peter1138>	nope
11:46	<@peter1138>	works for me
11:46	<@peter1138>	hmm
11:46	[~]	peter1138 rereads :p
11:47	<@peter1138>	double free
11:47	<@peter1138>	doesn't happen every time though
11:47	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	i have tried it multiple times, it crashes differently each time
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11:48	<Wolf01>	hello
11:49	<@peter1138>	ok, vmware-player is crap
11:49	<@peter1138>	sigh
11:50	<Wolf01>	i agree, the workstation is really better :P
11:50	<\|Jeroen\|>	i like the server
11:51	<hylje>	to each its own
11:51	<@peter1138>	my win xp stuff only gets to Mup.sys :(
11:52	<Wolf01>	boekabart! great work with water levels! i really like this screenshot: http://www.tt-forums.net/files/newdeeptransparency_170.png
11:53	<hylje>	tt-forums finally got rid of that extra slash ?
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11:55	<boekabart>	Wolf01: thanks
11:55	<boekabart>	You actually like those golden canals!?
11:56	<boekabart>	;)
11:56	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	:p
11:56	<boekabart>	dinner's served!
11:56	<hylje>	acta
11:56	<hylje>	ual riverbanks
11:56	<hylje>	-a
11:56	<Biff>	golden canals
11:56	<Biff>	nice
11:56	<Biff>	:P
11:56	<boekabart>	yes they are supposed to look like riverbanks
11:57	<boekabart>	:) placeholders of course
11:57	<hylje>	:o
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11:57	<Wolf01>	yes, they are cool, maybe with a copper color to seem more like bricks (the grey seem stone) they may look better, but i like the transparent water more :D
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12:07	<@peter1138>	rivers have bricks around them?
12:08	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	maybe italian rivers :p
12:09	<Wolf01>	sometimes they have brick wharfs in cities
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12:10	<hylje>	maybe urban towns should have them
12:10	<hylje>	but outside urban area basic banks
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12:11	<Noldo>	similar to roads
12:11	<hylje>	yes
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12:13	<Thomas[NL]>	you can make these brick-r wharfs by building a road on the slope :)
12:14	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	he's talking about rivers, they should not have the need for slopes
12:15	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	like canals
12:16	<elmex>	does transfer&full load make any senes?
12:17	<skidd13>	elmex: why not?
12:17	<elmex>	hmm
12:18	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	not much, because you'll be picking up the cargo you just left there
12:19	<elmex>	ok, following setup: station B is built near a ore mine and it also gets transfered ore from elsewhere. so the transferd cargo and the cargo produced by the nearby industry mixes
12:19	<elmex>	will that result in a bug?
12:20	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	hm, it might work meanwhile
12:20	<elmex>	meanwhile?
12:20	<elmex>	would it work in 0.5.1?
12:20	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	it used to not work, but someone did a transfer fix
12:20	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	i just don't know how far that fix went
12:21	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	it should be in 0.5.1
12:27	<elmex>	hm
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12:29	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	who can i beat senseless for the translation of the town road options?!?
12:29	<@peter1138>	they're not especially good in english ;p
12:30	<Maedhros>	pfft, you know where to find them :p
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12:35	<kaan>	is there any documentation to adding new strings to the lang files?
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12:36	<Maedhros>	kaan: yup, there is - http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/Strings
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12:38	<skidd13>	Is it possible to set a param to a string who is already set by a param?
12:39	<kaan>	Maedhros: thanks :)
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12:41	<Desolator>	can anyone help me with sourceforge?
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12:42	<@Belugas>	skidd13 : i don't get exactly what you mean
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12:44	<skidd13>	It's hard to describe it for me. I'll post a patch in my order window topic.
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12:45	<skidd13>	Belugas: http://tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?p=589547#589547
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12:47	<Eddi