TheGrebs.com:IRC Logs:#openttd:2007:05:08

---	Log	opened Tue May 08 00:00:09 2007
---	Day	changed Tue May 08 2007
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00:41	<TheJosh>	Hey all!
00:46	<TheJosh>	how are various peoples in this virtual room going?
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01:55	<boekabart_>	good morning, europe
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02:22	<SpComb>	morn'
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02:38	<peter1138>	hi
02:42	<SpComb>	HAI2U
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03:30	<peter1138>	pompiedom
03:30	<boekabart1>	high level remark!
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03:31	<boekabart_>	did I join twice now?
03:31	<boekabart1>	apparently, weird?
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03:32	<peter1138>	yes indeed
03:32	<peter1138>	so rivers & waterlevels...
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03:33	<boekabart_>	so how do I make the server recognize+accept my nick without manually having to "/msg nickServ identify" ?
03:33	<boekabart_>	this client doesn't seem to support startup scripts
03:35	<peter1138>	pass
03:41	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: rubidium * r9813 /trunk/src/ (engine.h table/engines.h): -Fix (r9799): wagons must have EC_STEAM, otherwise they don't show up in the purchase list (mart3p).
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03:50	<peter1138>	o_O
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04:00	<boekabart_>	Is there a way to let the IRC server 'recognise' me by IP address?
04:02	<peter1138>	http://www.oftc.net/oftc/Services
04:03	<peter1138>	probably msg nickserv with help...
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04:13	<boekabart>	CPU: 1 x Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.80GHz @ 2793 MHZ (x86 Family 15 Model 2 Stepping 9), 0 kb Cache
04:13	<boekabart>	wtf did I click!?
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04:14	<ln->	do you have hyperthreading too?
04:14	<boekabart>	no
04:14	<boekabart>	my boss was too cheap for that
04:15	<boekabart>	but i do have cache more than 0kb i'm sure :)
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04:27	<boekabart>	nick boekabart_
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04:29	<boekabart>	irc is driving me insane
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04:31	<boekabart>	irc is driving me crazy
04:32	<TrueBrain>	you us too ;)
04:32	<EdwardTLS>	?
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04:33	<boekabart>	as what user@host did i log on now?
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04:40	<boekabart_>	when that ^^ ~boekabart@81.58.27.138 is on the access list, you're supposed to be recognized automatically, right!?
04:41	<Sacro>	me? no...
04:41	<Sacro>	i'm Sacro
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04:44	<peter1138>	might have to drop the ~
04:44	<peter1138>	but i don't know
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04:51	<boekabart>	/who
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04:55	<boekabart_>	got it to work. just added *@my_ip :)
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05:51	<berger>	hi
05:52	<berger>	i have a quick TTD newbie question regarding Depots
05:53	<berger>	when building one-way tracks
05:53	<berger>	yet you need a depot
05:53	<berger>	and using signals
05:53	<berger>	is there any way of stopping the train from travelling in the "wrong" direction when it leaves the depot
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05:55	<Patrick>	hook up the depot so that trains can go both ways
05:55	<Patrick>	if you build it next to track it should just d it
05:56	<boekabart>	berger: i suppose you don't want to just put 1 way signals on the main track just before and after the depot, because that's the easiest way to do it
05:57	<berger>	yeah i have done that Patrick but occasionally they come out and go anti clock instead of clockwise if you see what i mean
05:57	<boekabart>	if you don't want that, build the depot 1 tile away from the main line (or more), connect it with 2 '45 degree' tracks and put the 1-way signals on those connectors
05:58	<berger>	ok boekabart ill try that thanks :)
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06:16	<Patrick>	that's because the pathfinder is confused
06:21	<Eddi\|zuHause2>	it takes a lot to confuse the pathfinder nowadays
06:22	<Eddi\|zuHause2>	so there might be a deeper problem with your layout
06:43	<boekabart>	SpComb:!logs
06:43	<boekabart>	!logs
06:43	<SpComb>	Logs: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd
06:51	<SpComb>	alternatively, http://zapotekii.paivola.fi:8185/oftc-ottd
06:52	<boekabart>	fancy :)
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06:53	<SpComb>	very
06:53	<SpComb>	I'm not a bot, there's no need to query me :<
06:56	<boekabart>	so who is this !logs bot then ;)
06:56	<SpComb>	well, I just have my client set to respond to them, and it also does the logs for the origional logs site. SpBot does the new one
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07:15	<lolman>	Ooh my PC at home's fallen over obviously
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07:20	<lolman>	:)
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07:33	<TheJosh>	hi all
07:34	<peter1138>	hi
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07:55	<RobertGrammig>	somebody in a thread claimed that the wealth of a city determines the amount of citizens at stations. is there any documentation on how this wealth value is calculated, and on the factors affecting it? cant find anything in the wiki
07:57	<boekabart>	afaik it's only calculated from the houses in the catchment area
07:58	<boekabart>	city isn't so much of an entity, it a 'point' that counts all the buildings around it to figure out its population
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07:59	<RobertGrammig>	http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=29683&start=100
07:59	<RobertGrammig>	so scia is just wrong about the current development nightlies?
08:01	<boekabart>	i don't know what he means by rich
08:02	<boekabart>	is he talking about a specific branch?
08:02	<RobertGrammig>	to me it sounds like he is referring to the plain nightlies... probably just confusing rich with populated
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09:29	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: maedhros * r9814 /trunk/ (5 files in 3 dirs): -Fix (r1): Remove the duplicate sign sprite from openttd.grf since it's in the original data files.
09:41	<hylje>	omg, r1 fix
09:42	<peter1138>	happens sometimes ;p
09:42	<ln->	what's r1?
09:42	<peter1138>	i did one the other day
09:42	<peter1138>	r1 is the dawn of time
09:42	<peter1138>	nothing exists before r1
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09:47	<ln->	that's so not true.
09:48	<ln->	svn's revision numbering starts from zero.
09:48	<peter1138>	but at 0, there is nothing
09:48	<peter1138>	everything pops into existence at 1
09:49	<hylje>	it would be silly to have everything pop into existence at 2
09:50	<DaleStan>	But actually, there were over 900 revisions before r1.
09:50	<hylje>	would those be r-899..r0 ?
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09:52	<ln->	DaleStan: we all believe that OpenTTD was created at r1 by a supernatural force, and there was nothing before that.
09:53	<hylje>	intelligent design at its finest
09:53	<hylje>	:o
09:53	<DaleStan>	!openttd commit 1
09:53	<DaleStan>	Those would be r1..r975. The old SVN server crashed.
09:53	<_42_>	Commit by truelight :: r1 /trunk/ (200 files in 10 dirs) (2004-08-09 17:04:08 UTC)
09:53	<_42_>	Import of revision 975 of old (crashed) SVN
09:54	<hylje>	!openttd commit 9025
09:55	<_42_>	Commit by celestar :: r9025 /branches/gamebalance/ (1035 files in 34 dirs) (2007-03-06 15:09:50 UTC)
09:55	<_42_>	[gamebalance][gamebalance] -Branch: Created a branch for rebalancing the economic aspects game
09:56	<Patrick>	ironic for the 10,000th revision
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09:58	<DaleStan>	Wow. Only 200 files. It's now 529 files in trunk alone.
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10:00	<peter1138>	1035 si wrong, heh
10:01	<DorpsGek>	glx: Commit by celestar :: r9025 branches/gamebalance/ (2007-03-06 15:09:50 UTC)
10:01	<DorpsGek>	glx: [gamebalance] -Branch: Created a branch for rebalancing the economic aspects game
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10:01	<glx>	and this bot doesn't count
10:02	<hylje>	my svn bot counts, but it isnt configurable and only listens to commits :\
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10:09	<@Belugas>	Is there anyone with ttdpatch working? i would like to have a screenshot of the Industry funding window with ukrsi installed, and only ukrsi
10:09	<@Belugas>	would be appreciated :)
10:12	<Maedhros>	i'll fire up dosbox
10:13	<Maedhros>	shame it's too slow to play a proper game with though :(
10:15	<peter1138>	heh, same here
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10:16	<Maedhros>	Belugas: here you go - http://devs.openttd.org/~maedhros/ukrsi.png
10:19	<@Belugas>	thanks
10:19	<@Belugas>	but...
10:19	<@Belugas>	can you show me the first part of the window too?
10:19	<@Belugas>	if it's not too much to ask...
10:20	<Maedhros>	how do you mean, the first part?
10:20	<@Belugas>	looking at the scroll bar, i see the end of the list
10:20	<@Belugas>	therefor, i can guess there are some more industries at the top of the list
10:20	<Maedhros>	ah,,,
10:21	<Maedhros>	s/,,/ ok/
10:23	<Maedhros>	http://devs.openttd.org/~maedhros/ukrsi-2.png
10:23	<peter1138>	hmm, boring ;p
10:24	<@Belugas>	not for me :D
10:24	<@Belugas>	although i know what it means...
10:24	<@Belugas>	comparaison of behaviours,
10:24	<peter1138>	hmm?
10:24	<@Belugas>	debug and tralalal
10:24	<@Belugas>	+a
10:25	<@Belugas>	thanks a lot Maedhros
10:25	<peter1138>	can we have a preview? ;)
10:25	<@Belugas>	http://devs.openttd.org/~belugas/Industries/Right_On_The_Spot.png
10:25	<Maedhros>	no problem Belugas
10:25	<@Belugas>	and from what i can see, it is not exactly what's expected
10:26	<Maedhros>	feh, my house smells of fish :(
10:26	<peter1138>	hmm?
10:26	<peter1138>	what's the problem with it?
10:27	<peter1138>	apart from shuffle
10:27	<@Belugas>	shuffle is one, wrong strings used
10:27	<@Belugas>	http://devs.openttd.org/~belugas/Industries/cost_industry.png
10:28	<@Belugas>	this is an old screeni
10:28	<@Belugas>	it should look better now, but i'
10:28	<@Belugas>	ve not really worked on it lately
10:29	<@Belugas>	Maedhros : real house or newhouses? :D
10:31	<@Belugas>	i wonder if the slot in which the new industry is located would matter during callbacks and all
10:32	<@Belugas>	that is my biggest fear right now
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10:40	<@Belugas>	and it seems i don't have brick works
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10:40	<@Belugas>	and food processiong plant does not show
10:41	<@Belugas>	although i recall seeing it ingame
10:41	<@Belugas>	it could be SHUFFLE, though
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10:42	<@Belugas>	hey guys! look! there is egladil :)
10:42	<@Belugas>	hello egladil
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11:26	<Wolf01>	hello
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11:37	<SpComb>	failure, I restarted postgres and naturally SpBot died
11:38	<SpComb>	hmm
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11:43	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: rubidium * r9815 /trunk/src/economy.cpp: -Fix (r9761) [FS#769): transfers weren't accounted in the vehicle profits.
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11:48	<Thomas[NL]>	hmm, TTRS3 http://users.skynet.be/florisjan/ttd/ttrs.html#nr, are "old" roads supposed to be converted to those "New" roads after 1970 OR should roads build after 1970 be new-roads. And OTTD does not support this? Or is it intended to be the way it is now in OTTD (roads depend on start-date)?
11:48	<glx>	Thomas[NL]: depends on current date when the grf is loaded
11:49	<Thomas[NL]>	Is this a limitation of ottd or the grf?
11:49	<glx>	the grf
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11:49	<Thomas[NL]>	ok thank you :)
11:49	<Thomas[NL]>	I love those new roads but I don't want to start past 1970 :(
11:50	<Rubidium>	save and reload in 1970 ;)
11:50	<glx>	use the right param
11:50	<boekabart>	or edit the grf
11:51	<glx>	hmm there isn't a param to force the road
11:51	<Patrick>	or use the cheats
11:53	<Thomas[NL]>	But I don't want the new buildings...
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11:59	<Maedhros>	there is a param for which buildings get built :)
12:00	<glx>	but he wants buildings of all eras with modern roads
12:02	<Wolf01>	Maedhros! Adjoin?
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12:03	<Maedhros>	Wolf01: sorry, it's mindless tv time again ;)
12:03	<Wolf01>	:)
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12:04	<Wolf01>	this night i might have a wii-party, so i don't know if i can help you, if you might need my help :P
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12:05	<Wolf01>	(is the most number of *ght sentence i ever wrote!)
12:09	<Maedhros>	back, briefly
12:09	<Maedhros>	the problem i have is with the user interface, not the code...
12:10	<Maedhros>	if ctrl should always build a new station, how do you extend a station so it adjoins others?
12:10	<Wolf01>	what's the problem?
12:10	<Maedhros>	or build over an existing station if it touches a different one
12:10	<Wolf01>	that's a problem
12:11	<Wolf01>	the only way is to have the distant join code, which allows you to do it veeery easily
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12:13	<dihedral>	hey there
12:13	<Wolf01>	hi
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13:31	<Wolf01>	boekabart, what about the rivers patch?
13:31	<boekabart>	have not yet had time to test the grf
13:32	<boekabart>	it's actually not a rivers patch, it's a higher sea level patch that was modified a bit to support rivers too
13:32	<boekabart>	but they are controversial in the current implementation: flooding risk is huge
13:33	<Wolf01>	yeah
13:33	<@Belugas>	leads to a new industry type : rice culture ;)
13:34	<Wolf01>	maybe, i can suggest you this: let the water start to flow in a random direction where it can, and continue to flow in the same direction until it find an obstacle
13:34	<boekabart>	as i said before, i've been playing with another approach (for both), but it's graphically even more challenging
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13:36	<Wolf01>	this will make straight rivers of water in a plateau, but with some "noise" you can do some realistic rivers
13:37	<Bjarni>	<Belugas> leads to a new industry type : rice culture ;) <-- that would be a natural followup on the Japanese and Chinese translations ;)
13:38	<boekabart>	I'll post some shots of what I have tomorrow
13:38	<Wolf01>	good
13:41	<@Belugas>	Bjarni : good one :)
13:42	<peter1138>	boekabart: graphically isn't a problem
13:42	<boekabart>	it is
13:42	<boekabart>	because water tiles raise single pixels
13:42	<boekabart>	imagine a coast..
13:42	<peter1138>	hmm
13:42	<peter1138>	ok, it is :p
13:42	<boekabart>	coasts are the most tricky
13:42	<peter1138>	but it's not insurmountable
13:42	<peter1138>	just need different sprites for each level
13:42	<peter1138>	but that's only 8 for each type
13:43	<peter1138>	only... heh
13:43	<boekabart>	the 1 pixel diff in height can be done by drawing an edge around it like it's done for slopes with something built on it
13:44	<Wolf01>	peter1138, i was reading boekabart blog: "Peter1138 added the transaparent water option, so you can see how deep the sea is. In the 32bpp version, we can make the water surface semi-transparent I guess." why not also in 8bpp? you can make houses and trees transparent, tiles could be transparent too
13:44	<boekabart>	but to convert all coasts to straight 'quays' ...
13:44	<peter1138>	Wolf01: it looks shit
13:44	<Wolf01>	oh, that's why
13:45	<boekabart>	Wolf01: there is a conversion palette for 'transparant' and it is not pretty for water
13:45	<Eddi\|zuHause2>	for transparent water, you should have sea-ground sprites that are dark blue
13:45	<peter1138>	we can add a palette map for it
13:45	<boekabart>	i'm for ;)
13:45	<peter1138>	but... you need gridlines on the surface for it to look good
13:46	<peter1138>	boekabart: we need a lot of sprites for this waterlevel, but is that a big issue?
13:46	<boekabart>	well no
13:47	<boekabart>	i'll post shots tomorrow morning (CET) so everyone can see what we are talking about.
13:47	<peter1138>	hmm, we'll need corner flooding too
13:49	<boekabart>	but now, i'm going to play Kardinal & Konig on BrettSpielWelt with some old friends. that's what we do all tuesdays...
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13:59	<peter1138>	19:55 < patchbot> SVN commit: r1549 by eis_os (2 files in trunk/patches/): added initial code for rivers in the canals code.
13:59	<peter1138>	we've been beaten :p
14:00	<Eddi\|zuHause2>	they probably have been spying on us, and copied our feature :)
14:00	<Bjarni>	they do that from time to time
14:00	<Bjarni>	they copied my autoreplace idea, yet not the GUI
14:01	<Bjarni>	they still lack the ability to have two horizontal scrollbars :p
14:01	<Maedhros>	it's only fair, given the number of patch features we've 'appropriated' :)
14:02	<peter1138>	yeah, but now they've done it first, therefore we'll be 'copying' them again ;p
14:02	<Maedhros>	heh
14:03	<Bjarni>	we never copy anything
14:03	<Bjarni>	we just brainstorm and figure out nice features and then we code them
14:03	<Rubidium>	we 'improve' them?
14:03	<Bjarni>	the fact that somebody else thought about it too has nothing to do with it
14:04	<Bjarni>	everything we do is an improvement over the patch because it runs natively on my computer ;)
14:05	<Sacro\|Laptop>	but does it run linux?
14:05	<Eddi\|zuHause2>	there is a big difference about two people separately developing an idea, or one person picking up an idea from someone else (and then implementing it differently)
14:06	<Zuu>	What's most important here is not if it run on Linux or not but that it run on Bjarni's computer. :)
14:06	<Bjarni>	yeah
14:07	<Zuu>	So a version that run of a bootable memory stick would also be fine :)
14:08	<Bjarni>	I didn't say that :p
14:08	<Bjarni>	because then I would lack IRC
14:09	<SpComb>	http://zapotekii.paivola.fi:8185/oftc-ottd <-- follow this conversation in real-time with three-second granularity :P
14:11	<SpComb>	as in, it now updates itself
14:12	<peter1138>	<meta http-equiv="refresh"...
14:12	<SpComb>	no, it's XHR
14:12	<peter1138>	but damn, grey on black sucks for reading
14:12	<SpComb>	default irssi theme, you can change it
14:13	<SpComb>	Preferences -> Theme -> irssi_plain or even mirc
14:13	<peter1138>	better
14:13	<peter1138>	such a small window though :p
14:13	<SpComb>	small in width or height?
14:13	<peter1138>	height
14:13	<peter1138>	and width
14:13	<SpComb>	"Show more lines"
14:13	<peter1138>	the text around it is fucking massive
14:14	<Bjarni>	why should we waste bandwidth on both using IRC and watch this homepage?
14:14	<peter1138>	but the text of irc is tiny
14:14	<SpComb>	width should be as wide as fits in your browser, although perhaps it's a fixed width
14:14	<peter1138>	there're two huge grey borders
14:14	<peter1138>	plus the menu on the left...
14:14	<Sacro\|Laptop>	nicklist doesn't work
14:14	<Sacro\|Laptop>	argh, 5 mins of battery
14:14	<Sacro\|Laptop>	bbl
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14:16	<peter1138>	http://fuzzle.org/o/splogs.png
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14:17	<peter1138>	by "tiny" i mean normal sized, of course
14:24	<SpComb>	and in what way does the nicklist not work?
14:24	<SpComb>	what's your resolution?
14:24	<peter1138>	mine? 1280x960
14:24	<SpComb>	there's not really any technical limitation on the width of it, but currently I think it's expressed as a percentage
14:25	<SpComb>	width: 80%;
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14:31	<Bjarni>	Sacro_: did you find a spare battery?
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14:35	<Bjarni>	I guess not
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14:50	<Phazorx>	how new town roads work again ?
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14:51	<@Belugas>	Phazorx : you set the layout you want towns to have and you watch them laying them
14:52	<@Belugas>	unless there is something else?
14:52	<Phazorx>	Belugas: does it affect growth only or initial generation as well ?
14:52	<Phazorx>	is there a wiki page?
14:54	<@Belugas>	dunno about wiki. does not affect town growth, just how the roads are traced when town expand :)
14:54	<Desolator>	is teh guy who made BuildOTTD here?
14:54	<glx>	no
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14:55	<Desolator>	I wanted to tell him that I made a better installer without using MSI
14:55	<Phazorx>	Belugas: that's what imeant by growth
14:55	<boekabart>	in his face!!
14:56	<Phazorx>	so, Belugas, the settings are for future expansion as the game goes, doe not affect generator?
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14:58	<peter1138>	it will slightly, as the position of roads affects town growth, but not a lot
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14:58	<Phazorx>	peter1138: i'm not implying growth of population... only geometrical size and structure of roads
14:58	<peter1138>	best bet: test it
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14:59	<Phazorx>	basicaly downtown is screewed up as generator sets it but from that point it will be structured
14:59	<Phazorx>	peter1138: trying to figure out how to get it working 1st
15:02	<Phazorx>	oh... it's a patch in game option
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15:02	<Phazorx>	nm... i was thinking it's config option w/o interface
15:02	<@Belugas>	Phazorx : Easy. Before generating a game, go to Configure patches, section construction. Choose the proper town-layout (default,better roads etc) and then genreate new game
15:03	<Phazorx>	Belugas: figured out already thanks
15:04	<Phazorx>	unrelated question - "when dragging place signals every ... "
15:04	<Phazorx>	having it set to 2 - it works on straights
15:04	<Phazorx>	but for diagonals it places lighs every 3rd half tile
15:04	<Phazorx>	hance it's more like 1.5tiles
15:05	<Phazorx>	i guess since train sace same way - it doesnt matter
15:05	<Phazorx>	but when dragged for short distances - terminating lights are not set and can create halftile gaps :/
15:06	<Phazorx>	and if anyone cares - patch affects generator too
15:07	<Eddi\|zuHause2>	the generator is just supposed to run the town growth function a few times
15:08	<Phazorx>	figures
15:09	<Phazorx>	i wonder if it possible to synch the grids of nearby towns :)
15:09	<Phazorx>	at generathion time that is
15:09	<peter1138>	lol
15:09	<boekabart>	some magnetics in it?
15:10	<peter1138>	"I made an installer for this which is much better than your MSI Installer" < desolator's modest..
15:10	<Phazorx>	yeah, heh
15:10	<Phazorx>	it might look ugly as nerby towns grow to have paralele roads going on next tiles
15:13	<boekabart>	that's actually easy
15:13	<boekabart>	never extend a road if it's parallel to another?
15:14	<boekabart>	or: when it comes next to another road (from another town?), connect them which will stop the expanding
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15:15	<Patrick>	or
15:15	<Phazorx>	sounds like an idea for RFP
15:15	<Patrick>	what is the grid centered relative to?
15:15	<Patrick>	only ever grid on odd-numbered tiles
15:15	<Phazorx>	cuz it isnt so now
15:15	<Patrick>	or whatevers' necessary
15:18	<Phazorx>	http://img.cx/e/5514536220/PICCYSNAP.COM_731_c.png
15:19	<Patrick>	yeah, that's a mess
15:20	<@Belugas>	new town replacment :)
15:20	<@Belugas>	didn't though people were still using it
15:20	<@Belugas>	25
15:21	<@Belugas>	oups
15:21	<Phazorx>	i kinda like it
15:22	<@Belugas>	you're entitled to it :)
15:22	<peter1138>	hehe
15:22	<@Belugas>	it's just that i did it so long ago...
15:22	<@Belugas>	though it was not used anymore
15:22	<Phazorx>	well thanks and it's cool :)
15:22	<peter1138>	thoughtt+t+t
15:22	<peter1138>	wtf
15:23	<Patrick>	lol
15:23	<peter1138>	fucking lag, stops ^U working properly :/
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15:25	<Phazorx>	since there are some grf developers here - are there any cars/wagons only sets ?
15:25	<Phazorx>	which can be used as an addition to engines sets ?
15:25	<Phazorx>	or as a replacement for standard ones
15:25	<peter1138>	cargoset, i think
15:25	<peter1138>	old though
15:26	<peter1138>	probably doesn't play well with engine sets, either
15:26	<Phazorx>	i tried including it after train set - and it got a bit messy
15:26	<peter1138>	yeah
15:27	<Phazorx>	but that's a trainsets problems i guess
15:27	<Phazorx>	would be nice to have a 'engines' and 'cars' bits
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15:35	<Bulb>	Hello Folks,
15:36	<Bulb>	I am currently sketching some small fixes in the aircraft handling and want to ask.
15:36	<Bulb>	What do you think about speed of broken-down aircraft?
15:38	<ln->	well above zero
15:38	<Bulb>	The current value is 320km/h. That feels way too slow (It's 170ktas, which for larger aircraft would mean flaps down)
15:38	<Phazorx>	i guess point of speed reduction is to introdice delays - instead i'd rather see mandatory landing on closest port
15:38	<Phazorx>	or faling down if there is none :)
15:39	<ln->	and priority given to the broken one
15:39	<Phazorx>	naturally
15:39	<Phazorx>	that's harder tho
15:39	<Phazorx>	going to land off course is hard too
15:40	<Phazorx>	as well as having "range" which is currently abcent unfortunatelly :(
15:40	<Bulb>	Well, I'd love to see 'has to land within 100 squares or crashes' as well.
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15:40	<Phazorx>	configurable range :)
15:40	<Bulb>	However, it's really hard to do.
15:40	<Phazorx>	Bulb: find aiport in rnage or fall down now is easier
15:41	<Phazorx>	assuming there is range as property
15:41	<Bulb>	A quick improvement would be what (if I understood one post in the forum) TTDP does -- the speed is reduced to 5/8.
15:41	<Phazorx>	that's still ugly
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15:42	<Phazorx>	my point was - havining wange broadens variety of used aircrafts
15:42	<Phazorx>	wange = range
15:42	<Bulb>	Does anybody remember what is the original speed of broken down aircraft (at least roughly, asi it didn't have speed readout) in OTTD?
15:42	<Phazorx>	and also can be used to determine broken travel distance
15:42	<Phazorx>	1/4th
15:42	<Phazorx>	that's TTDs
15:44	<Bulb>	Phazorx, no, 1/4th was the conversion from displayed speed to in-game speed. The broken-down speed was constant, because being broken down had no effect on helicopters.
15:44	<Bulb>	(making it feasible to operate a helicopter with 1% reliability, which was in turn necessary because there were no helicopters at all available towards end of the game)
15:44	<Phazorx>	ahh sorry missed the broken part :)
15:45	<Phazorx>	80 mph
15:46	<Bulb>	In the "displayed" or "real" units?
15:47	<Phazorx>	in google :)
15:48	<Phazorx>	i'd say in displayed
15:48	<Phazorx>	cuz i recall busses passing early planes :)
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15:48	<Bulb>	Hm, because it does not match my experience with it. Helicopters flew more than 80mph and did not slow down.
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15:49	<Bulb>	Well, the early planes were flying about 90mph real. ... um, and the broken-down speed was a little less than that, so it might actually have been 80mph real.
15:51	<Bulb>	That is 320mph displayed. So I'll raise it to 320mph (from 320km/h) in my simple patch and post that patch and than try looking into the land-or-crash. Hm, I am not sure how to give broken-down aircraft priority yet. Maybe CobraA1 will work out his airplane queueing patch and that will support it.
15:51	<boekabart>	can't a broken airplane do an emergency landing on a road nearby?
15:51	<Phazorx>	Bulb: i dont think queueing is necessary
15:52	<Phazorx>	boekabart: finding road is more challenging that airport
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15:52	<boekabart>	or field then
15:52	<Phazorx>	not to mention all associated with landing and taking off
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15:52	<Phazorx>	that's a bit much :)
15:52	<boekabart>	well.. what happens in real life? Just make sure the aircraft is 100% always maintained....
15:53