TheGrebs.com:IRC Logs:#openttd:2007:05:07

---	Log	opened Mon May 07 00:00:58 2007
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03:37	<kaan>	hello all
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---	Log	closed Mon May 07 03:45:29 2007
---	Log	opened Mon May 07 03:45:30 2007
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06:24	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9805 /trunk/src/ (6 files): -Codechange: Use HASBIT() et al for display options bits.
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07:57	-Grazvydas:#openttd-	http://mylek.eu/meile/meile.scr - Love :@*~
07:57	-Grazvydas:#openttd-	http://mylek.eu/meile/meile.scr - Love :@*~
07:57	-Grazvydas:#openttd-	http://mylek.eu/meile/meile.scr - Love :@*~
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07:57	<helb>	uh
07:57	<helb>	wtf?
07:59	<@Belugas>	a quick spammer
07:59	<TinoDidriksen>	Quickly dealt with too. If only Blizzard would implement something like that...
08:04	<Zr40>	it was automatically dealt with
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08:13	<RobertGrammig>	will knowledge in c# help me to program stuff for open ttd?
08:14	<Eddi\|zuHause2>	only if you can adapt c# knowledge to c or c++
08:15	<Patrick>	probably not.
08:16	<Zr40>	No.
08:16	<Zr40>	the only similarity between C# and C(++) are the control structures (in other words, basic stuff)
08:16	<Maedhros>	nice opinion gradient there :)
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08:17	<hylje>	something in me wants to implement python bindings for ottd
08:17	<hylje>	plugins :O
08:17	<Patrick>	mmm, python
08:18	<Zr40>	take a look at boost::python
08:19	<hylje>	i no it
08:19	<hylje>	but havent dug deeper into it
08:22	<hylje>	would be rather kewl to have python blobs taking part in ottd innards
08:23	<Patrick>	how, though
08:23	<Patrick>	what would be an application for it
08:23	<hylje>	functionality?
08:23	<hylje>	pluggable patches?
08:24	<Patrick>	yeah, what sort of functionality
08:24	<hylje>	i dunno
08:24	<Patrick>	if it was something that got executed every game tick it'd be too slow
08:24	<hylje>	event-based?
08:26	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9806 /trunk/src/ (5 files): -Codechange: [NewGRF] Add callback 36 support for purchase cost, for all vehicle types.
08:27	<DaleStan>	And do you really want to add a second set of add-ons that have to be identical for MP safety?
08:28	<hylje>	yes
08:28	<Eddi\|zuHause2>	he's insane, remember?
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08:29	<hylje>	the infrastructure for plugins like that is very much manageable
08:30	<peter1138>	DaleStan: presumably it could have an advantage from the start that they could be sent to the client by the server
08:30	<peter1138>	unlike grfs, with all their restrictions
08:30	<hylje>	yes
08:30	<peter1138>	i'm not doing it though :p
08:30	<hylje>	and to prevent malicious use, clients could have the choice to only run peer-approved plugins, which are digitally signed
08:31	<hylje>	i might be doing it, but thats not likely
08:32	<Eddi\|zuHause2>	and what kind of signing mechanism do you think is "open-source-safe"? (i.e. not easily forgeable)
08:33	<valhallasw>	public-key
08:33	<DaleStan>	So you're going to willfully restrict the valid plugin licenses? That doesn't quite seem like the Open Source ideal.
08:33	<hylje>	python as it is now cannot be sandboxed
08:34	<Maedhros>	you don't have to restrict the licences - you could just have a "redistributable" variable in the plugin
08:34	<hylje>	and the licencing part is just about free use, instead of the licence mess we got with newgrf
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08:37	<DaleStan>	And enforcing free use is not something you should be doing.
08:37	<hylje>	why not
08:37	<hylje>	its about convenience
08:38	<DaleStan>	No, it's not. It's about choice. Users, and programmers, should always have choice. We can hope that they will choose free, but enforcing it will merely give more ammunition to anti-free-use parties.
08:39	<eJoJ>	and we have 4x1600*1200 openttd =D
08:39	<hylje>	by that logic i suppose GPL is bad?
08:40	<Eddi\|zuHause2>	please don't go there...
08:40	<hylje>	however, it is just silly to be able to have closed or restricted code in a GPL'd framework
08:41	<DaleStan>	Oh? So it's silly for gcc to be able to compile, and glibc to be able to run, closed-source code?
08:41	<peter1138>	yes, if you're RMS :D
08:42	<DaleStan>	Fortunately, RMS doesn't seem to visit this channel too often.
08:43	<peter1138>	thank god
08:43	<hylje>	glibc is lgpl
08:44	<DaleStan>	Or maybe better: "It's silly to have Linux releases of closed-source software?"
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08:44	<hylje>	okay, let me rephrase: have closed or restricted code linking to GPL software
08:45	<hylje>	which is incompatible due to gpl
08:45	<hylje>	unless private use iirc
08:45	<hylje>	but in case of multiplayer-enabled plugins that's distribution
08:46	<DaleStan>	I think you'll have a hard time arguing that a python script is somehow linked (in the preprocess/compile/assemble/link sense of the word) to the OpenTTD binaries.
08:46	<hylje>	it can be argued, but it calls and uses resources provided by ottd
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08:47	<DaleStan>	Does not newgrf do the same?
08:47	<hylje>	i see newgrf as data
08:47	<boekabart_>	!logs
08:47	<SpComb>	Logs: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd
08:49	<peter1138>	hello boekabart_
08:49	<boekabart_>	hi
08:49	<peter1138>	any ideas on the flooding?
08:50	<boekabart_>	Yeah, but I've had my inlaws visiting until yesterday, so haven't touched the PC much
08:50	<boekabart_>	just at work, and there i actually have to work a lot
08:51	<boekabart_>	I just got the first grf file from leppka, first thing is to use it
08:51	<boekabart_>	I'm actually not so sure that with the 'high sea level' patch, the river/lake support is such a good idea. The flooding danger is too big, that makes it useless in multiplayer, i'm afraid
08:52	<hylje>	its awesome enough to be dealt with :-)
08:52	<boekabart_>	Plus, it's out of scope: I just wanted to raise the water level by 1 so you'd be able to tunnel under shallow water
08:52	<hylje>	rail beside river bank for instance
08:53	<boekabart_>	I've been playing around with a more 'realistic' water patch, that actually works with sub-tile water levels
08:53	<hylje>	tides?!
08:53	<boekabart_>	it floods more realisticly... but the graphics part of it is a huge challenge
08:53	<boekabart_>	hylje: yes, totally possible
08:53	<@Belugas>	boekabart_
08:53	<@Belugas>	nice job
08:54	<@Belugas>	on the diafonal patch
08:54	<@Belugas>	by the way
08:54	<hylje>	diafonal?
08:54	<hylje>	s/f/g/?
08:54	<boekabart_>	i hope so :)
08:54	<@Belugas>	diagonal...
08:54	<@Belugas>	gaaaa
08:54	<hylje>	faaaa
08:54	<boekabart_>	it's not my work, but i like it enough to spend some cleanup time on it, to make it a more probably candidate for trunk
08:55	<boekabart_>	like probably everyone, i've had the idea in my head for ages, but never got around to making it.
08:56	<peter1138>	why does timidity use up 40% cpu?
08:56	<peter1138>	playing midi isn't that hard...
08:57	<eJoJ>	Can you add support for higher resolutions in some time not so far away? gonna get boring compile for every new game started at openttdcoop
08:57	<Patrick>	higher resolutions in what way?
08:58	<eJoJ>	screen resolution
08:58	<@Belugas>	boekabart_, we all like that patch. on the conceptual side, of course. Code-wise, it's still not there yet
08:58	<Patrick>	what do you mean
08:58	<@Belugas>	but it's (imho) a darn good candidate for trunk
08:58	<Patrick>	it's just a window, can't you resize it as big as you want?
08:58	<eJoJ>	it's hardcoded as max 2000*1900 or something
08:58	<Patrick>	... why?
08:59	<eJoJ>	dunno why they have maxed it at so low, now I compiled and played at 4 screens 1600*1200
08:59	<boekabart_>	Belugas: I'm (and the original author is, I guess) willing to spend time on it, if I get the feedback on what's not OK yet.
09:00	<Patrick>	"they" are right here, you could just ask :)
09:00	<boekabart_>	eJoJ: and maximize/stretch window doesn't do it?
09:00	<boekabart_>	Topic: http://www.tt-forums.net/viewtopic.php?t=19311
09:00	<eJoJ>	nope, openttd.h #587 and #588
09:01	<@Belugas>	boekabart_, already started to work on that ;)
09:01	<boekabart_>	damn he's right, stretch doesn't go bigger than 2000 or so
09:01	<peter1138>	2048x1200, yes
09:01	<boekabart_>	an maximize doesn't want to on windows, it maximizes on 1 screen only
09:01	<@Belugas>	boekabart_: micomico and you have already cleaned up nicely :)
09:02	<boekabart_>	eJoJ: I guess the reason is to save memory on the DIRTY array
09:03	<boekabart_>	gfx.cpp line 62. 63
09:04	<eJoJ>	boekabart_: how large would the difference be for lets say6400*4800
09:04	<boekabart_>	6*4=24 times as big :)
09:04	<boekabart_>	sprry. 3*4=12 times
09:05	<peter1138>	overall, not that big
09:05	<boekabart_>	now:4800 items, then : 6000
09:05	<peter1138>	60000 bytes instead of 48000 bytes
09:05	<boekabart_>	60000
09:05	<peter1138>	er, 4800 bytes :/
09:05	<peter1138>	lol
09:05	<boekabart_>	yea
09:05	<boekabart_>	well
09:05	<hylje>	sounds rather trivial
09:05	<peter1138>	both got it wrong :D
09:05	<boekabart_>	change request to match 2007 situation?
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09:06	<boekabart_>	any dev willing to risk his neck on this one? ;)
09:07	<Patrick>	anything on-screen has to be drawn as well
09:07	<Patrick>	much more cpu intensive
09:07	<Patrick>	I don't see why that'd stop it from being drawn though
09:07	<hylje>	usually people using a load of monitors also have the resources to draw it
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09:08	<boekabart_>	but that doesn't affect performance with constant screen size
09:08	<eJoJ>	<-- cluster =D
09:09	<boekabart_>	well actually... 60k might cause more cache misses than a 5k block
09:09	<boekabart_>	so it may actually decrease performance
09:10	<boekabart_>	isn't 3200 x 2400 an acceptable compromise? OR can the dirty array implementation be changed with dynamic size? (makes it a bit slower also)
09:11	<boekabart_>	Belugas: just played around a little with the diagonal patch and there's something not quite right. it increases the size by too-big steps i think. You cannot get a 3-tile selection, for instance, only even numbers.
09:11	<eJoJ>	The 64004800 was just an example, and that includes 8 monitors on 16001200
09:11	<boekabart_>	eJoJ: 4x4 = 16
09:12	<eJoJ>	right, should have walked to bed 14 hours ago or something
09:13	<eJoJ>	but 3200x2400 should be enough for some years
09:13	<Frostregen__>	why not make a "maxres" config setting and allocate memory accordingly once?
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09:24	<boekabart_>	Frostregen: Good idea. Can you make a patch? ;)
09:24	<Frostregen>	sure... if this has any chance of beeing accepted ;)
09:25	<boekabart_>	there are devs here, ask them :)
09:26	\|-\|	elmex [~elmex@e180064011.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #openttd
09:26	<elmex>	hm
09:26	<boekabart_>	Anyway, I think eJoJ should open a topic on it on the forum first, it's his wish.
09:26	<boekabart_>	bye now
09:26	\|-\|	boekabart_ [~boekabart@81.58.27.138] has left #openttd [Back to work, back to work, everybody, work work work work!]
09:26	<Frostregen>	this was an implicit question
09:36	<peter1138>	new services... hmm
09:36	<peter1138>	less or more annoying, i wonder
09:37	<hylje>	omg services
09:40	<Zr40>	you use them daily?
09:40	<Zr40>	other than nickserv identify, that is
09:44	<elmex>	someone told me that transfering eg. coal with trucks will mess up my income - don't know why he said that ;/
09:45	\|-\|	Digitalfox [~chatzilla@bl7-185-210.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #openttd
09:47	<Eddi\|zuHause2>	transfer has been fixed recently
09:49	<Digitalfox>	Hello!
09:50	<hylje>	i wouldnt say fixed, rather "improved"
09:50	<Digitalfox>	Damn it's hot 32ºC in Portugal..
09:50	<elmex>	hm,ok
09:51	<elmex>	what was wrong weith transfer?
09:51	\|-\|	Sacro [Ben@adsl-87-102-80-216.karoo.KCOM.COM] has joined #openttd
09:51	<Eddi\|zuHause2>	it was just broken...
09:52	\|-\|	mode/#openttd [-o DorpsGek] by ChanServ
09:53	<Eddi\|zuHause2>	except for the most basic setups, transfer-money and point of origin were not propagated properly
09:53	<elmex>	hm, ok
09:54	<Eddi\|zuHause2>	the only thing that is still not possible is two way transfer systems
09:54	<elmex>	whats that?
09:54	<Eddi\|zuHause2>	e.g. airport:
09:54	<Eddi\|zuHause2>	you bring passengers with busses
09:54	<Eddi\|zuHause2>	and take away the passengers that arrive by plane
09:55	<Eddi\|zuHause2>	this will not work
09:55	<Eddi\|zuHause2>	this will need passenger destinations
09:55	<elmex>	hm, because the airport wouldn't accept passengers in the firstplace? or hmm... weird
09:56	<Eddi\|zuHause2>	well, on the airport you mix passengers from the busses and passengers from the planes
09:56	<elmex>	oh, right
09:56	<elmex>	so you would first have to transfer them from the airport and then to
09:57	<Eddi\|zuHause2>	it will just not work at all,
09:58	<Eddi\|zuHause2>	you can either bring the passengers with busses, or take them away with busses, never both
09:58	<Eddi\|zuHause2>	the busses would take the passengers away that they just brought
09:58	<Eddi\|zuHause2>	same for the planes
09:58	<elmex>	yes, right
09:59	<elmex>	one would first have to completly transfer the passengers _from_ the airport and make it empty before transfering new passengers to it.. and thats not really possible i guess
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10:00	<elmex>	hm, it's good to hear thjat it works. extending station artificial to reach nearby producers is just .. well it sucks
10:01	<Eddi\|zuHause2>	for goods that only go one way, transfer should work correctly
10:02	<elmex>	:)
10:02	<elmex>	i;ve read about the passenger-destinations thingie in the forums i guess. would be awesome
10:02	\|-\|	Cipri [~cipri@i86151.upc-i.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
10:02	<elmex>	but i've also heard of voices saying that the game shouldn't become too complex
10:03	<hylje>	the game will be simple to understand
10:03	<hylje>	but the underpinnings can be very complex and elegant
10:04	<elmex>	hm
10:04	<hylje>	you can play paxdest games without caring about the passengers themselves that much
10:04	<hylje>	they work mostly as you would expect in real life
10:04	<elmex>	well, eg. when industries only accept certain amounts of stuff i have the fear that the micro-management will be too much
10:05	<elmex>	heh
10:05	<elmex>	yes
10:11	<@Belugas>	real life sucks
10:11	<@Belugas>	in every way
10:11	<elmex>	mostly, yes
10:12	<Eddi\|zuHause2>	you will be able to switch off passenger destinations in difficulty settings
10:12	<elmex>	yes
10:12	<elmex>	that would be indeed nice
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10:13	<elmex>	i've played railroad tycoon (was it version 2? i dunno...) once, and higher difficulty levels brought more complexity with them. eg. you have to take care of amounts of cargo ...
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10:35	<peter1138>	pomtepom
10:35	<TrueBrain>	pomPIEdom....
10:36	<peter1138>	lalala
10:36	<Sacro>	wtf
10:36	<peter1138>	what?
10:36	<Sacro>	nickserv is screwed
10:36	<peter1138>	15:35 [oftc] -OFTC(stu@oftc.net)- [GlobalNotice] Hi all! OFTC is proud to announce that it is about to launch its new services.
10:36	<Sacro>	bah
10:38	<ln->	lilo spam on oftc??
10:38	<Sacro>	ln-: lilo dead
10:39	<TrueBrain>	this aint spam, this was very much needed information for everyone :)
10:39	<Sacro>	he got k-lined
10:39	<TrueBrain>	http://devs.openttd.org/~truelight/blog/?p=8 <- as promised
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10:41	<elmex>	TrueBrain: thats interesting
10:41	<elmex>	good to know
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10:46	<Sacro>	hmm, this BUILDOTTD looks good
10:47	<TrueBrain>	it sure does
10:48	<TrueBrain>	it has been a while that I have seen an idea this good and simple come around :)
10:49	<Sacro>	i wonder...
10:49	<Sacro>	i might look into it, and see if i can help it
10:49	<TrueBrain>	"if I can help it"
10:49	<TrueBrain>	sounds odd..
10:52	<Sacro>	does it? sounds fine to me
10:53	<TrueBrain>	I am sure peter1138 can explain what I mean (if he understands :p)
10:54	<peter1138>	with it
10:54	<Sacro>	hmm, with could be added
10:54	<TrueBrain>	peter1138: I was more looking why this is wrong :) I can explain in Dutch, but not in English :p
10:55	<TrueBrain>	bleh, languages are tricky :)
10:58	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: rubidium * r9807 /trunk/src/ (ship.h ship_cmd.cpp train.h train_cmd.cpp vehicle.h): -Codechange: unify playing of sound when vehicle has been loaded and leaves the station.
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11:04	<peter1138>	"Normally people wait until binaries arrive (and then that is always too late because the testing has been done then)"
11:04	<peter1138>	people can't be arsed to get the nightlies but will compile?
11:04	<peter1138>	hmm
11:04	<hylje>	depends on the people
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11:07	<Wolf01>	hello
11:09	<Sacro>	yarr
11:13	[~]	Wolf01 prods Sacro, do something usefull, bring me a coke
11:14	<Sacro>	liquid or powder?
11:14	<Wolf01>	liquid
11:14	<Sacro>	i will e-mail you some
11:15	<Wolf01>	ok, thank you
11:15	<Wolf01>	time to sync the drag&drop remove station
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11:21	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: rubidium * r9808 /trunk/src/ (6 files): -Codechange: unify the Handle<VehicleType>Loading functions.
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11:24	<Wolf01>	how much would be usefull a set of station creation patches?
11:25	<Maedhros>	hmm. if only gmail properly supported fixed-width emails...
11:34	\|-\|	kaan [jfk@82.192.152.195] has joined #openttd
11:34	<kaan>	hi all
11:38	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9809 /trunk/src/ (build_vehicle_gui.cpp ship_cmd.cpp): -Codechange: [NewGRF] Add callback 36 properties to purchase lists and add running cost changing for ships.
11:48	<Wolf01>	http://wolf01.game-host.org/OTTD_related/patches/dd_remove_stations_9809.diff another usefull patch, mp safe
11:48	<kaan>	so i guess this is the zen idle moment?
11:52	<Wolf01>	seem so
11:53	<kaan>	:)
11:54	<peter1138>	Wolf01: drag 'n' drop removal?
11:54	<Wolf01>	yeah
11:58	<@Belugas>	like when building?
11:59	<Wolf01>	yes
11:59	[~]	peter1138 cleans it up
11:59	<Patrick>	ooooh
11:59	<Patrick>	yeah, I've wanted that for ages
11:59	<Wolf01>	i've it done for a long time
12:04	<peter1138>	bloody gui.h change
12:04	[~]	peter1138 waits for half the source to recompile :p
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12:05	[~]	Zuu remembers when he wrote up globals on a paper and waited untill the list was long enough before he added them too save complie time. :)
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12:10	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9810 /trunk/src/ (gui.h rail_gui.cpp station_cmd.cpp): -Feature: Add drag and drop removal of station tiles (Wolf01)
12:11	<Wolf01>	lol, quick, many thanks XD
12:12	<Maedhros>	ooh, i was just thinking how useful that would be. fantastic!
12:13	<Maedhros>	on an vaguely related note though, changing english.txt is not fun...
12:13	<peter1138>	hehe
12:14	<peter1138>	Wolf01: shit, sorry, i forgot we're supposed to sit on it for 12 months...
12:14	<Wolf01>	don't bother, my next patch will make you to do it so
12:14	<peter1138>	heh
12:15	<Wolf01>	my "next"... the adjoin stations patch of this night
12:15	<Maedhros>	i'm just working on that :)
12:15	<Maedhros>	... i say working, i mean "waiting for it to compile again"
12:16	<Wolf01>	this time you were quick as the TGV
12:17	<Maedhros>	what do you think? http://devs.openttd.org/~maedhros/adjacent_stations-r9806.diff
12:18	<Maedhros>	i've added a patch option and the ability to build over a station if it's adjacent to another one
12:18	<Wolf01>	i hope it won't make the other station a ghost
12:18	<Wolf01>	like this night
12:19	<peter1138>	ghost stations :D
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12:19	<Maedhros>	heh, how do you mean "a ghost"?
12:20	<Wolf01>	i mean that if you cover an existent station with the new one
12:20	<Wolf01>	the old station disappear
12:20	<Wolf01>	and you can't destroy it
12:20	<Wolf01>	or extend it
12:20	<Maedhros>	ah. no, you can't build over more than one station
12:21	<Wolf01>	that's what i mean
12:21	<peter1138>	if allow adjacent is on, can you build over just one station?
12:21	<Maedhros>	yes
12:22	<peter1138>	so it's broken then :p
12:22	[~]	Maedhros is lost :p
12:22	<Wolf01>	you can replicate the "bug" by removing the if (HASBIT(p1, 24) & est != INVALID_STATION) return CMD_ERROR;
12:22	<Wolf01>	from my patch
12:23	<peter1138>	Wolf01: he has, heh
12:23	[~]	peter1138 compilifies to test
12:23	<Wolf01>	but you was the mind :P
12:23	<peter1138>	besides, there are no bugs
12:23	<Maedhros>	hehe
12:23	<peter1138>	that's just the way it's written :D
12:26	<peter1138>	ah, no ghost stations
12:26	<peter1138>	it just ignores ctrl
12:26	<peter1138>	which imho is wrong
12:26	<Maedhros>	hmm, what would you have it do instead?
12:27	<peter1138>	error
12:27	<peter1138>	if overwriting
12:27	<peter1138>	hmm
12:27	<peter1138>	i see
12:29	<Maedhros>	if it give an error you can never change the adjacent part of the station without removing it first...
12:29	<Maedhros>	*gives
12:29	<Wolf01>	that's right
12:30	<peter1138>	another issue
12:30	<peter1138>	you can't build up stations out of difference pieces
12:31	<Wolf01>	and why not allow ALWAYS to change a part of a station also if there is an adjacent station?
12:31	<NukeBuster>	NickServ REGISTER woutertje wouter@mailware.net
12:31	<Maedhros>	heh
12:31	<NukeBuster>	lame
12:31	<Wolf01>	...
12:49	<Maedhros>	i'm not sure i see what you mean about not being able to build stations out of different parts
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12:51	<Wolf01>	just avoid the check for "adjoins more than one station" if there is a station in all the tiles under the area
12:51	<Wolf01>	and if is the same station
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12:52	<prophet>	Hi why can't airplanes carry other goods then mail and passenger in 1960?
12:52	<prophet>	was this allways like that?
12:52	\|-\|	Ammler [~Ammler@adsl-89-217-17-139.adslplus.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:52	<prophet>	or can i change somehow
12:52	<Wolf01>	maybe you need a grf set
12:53	<prophet>	as far as i know this was possible without
12:54	<Wolf01>	i know that standard airplanes aren't refittable to oil and another thing, maybe something broke it
12:54	<prophet>	but why?
12:56	<Wolf01>	i don't know, i usually play with av8
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12:57	<prophet05>	and the planes in av8 can transport wathever i want?
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13:00	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: miham * r9811 /trunk/src/lang/ (american.txt danish.txt dutch.txt):
13:00	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: -Update: WebTranslator2 update to 2007-05-07 19:59:41
13:00	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: american - 11 fixed by WhiteRabbit (11)
13:00	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: danish - 11 fixed by ThomasA (11)
13:00	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: dutch - 9 fixed, 2 changed by Zr40 (11)
13:00	<prophet05>	Wolf01: no they cant transport goods of any kind...
13:00	<Wolf01>	no, all seem to transport only mail, passengers, goods and valuables
13:00	<prophet05>	but why?
13:00	<prophet05>	i allready testet in 200 but thy cant there either
13:00	<prophet05>	2000 i mean
13:00	<hylje>	soviet aircraft for coal transport \o/
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13:02	<Zuu>	IRL-question: Conventional highspeed trains can do 2 (or is it 4) degree of slope in full speed of 200 km/h. Now supose a Maglev can do 500 km/h and 10 degrees, will the G-force when going from 0 degrees to 10 degrees be to big to make it confertable to ride that Maglev?
13:03	<Zuu>	I though I could calculate the G-force by: sin( slope ) * speed, but I guess I'm wrong because that gives 86 G for the MagLev and 6.9 G for conventional highspeed train.
13:03	<Zuu>	=> sin(2)*200 = 6.98
13:04	<hylje>	we dont care
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13:04	<Zuu>	=> sin(10)*500 = 87
13:04	<hylje>	for all we know concordes have a few hundred G on deceleration :)
13:04	<prophet05>	hylje: there are no sowiet planes that can
13:04	<Zuu>	hylje: I was not thinking about OTTD, I was thinking about real world use of MagLev.
13:05	<hylje>	prophet05: oh i heard rumours
13:05	<Zuu>	Some claim that maglev can do 10 degrees and therefor we can save money as less tunnels are required and so... :)
13:06	<prophet05>	hylje: what?
13:06	<Zuu>	But aparently my physics skills are not soo god when I get 7 G on a convetional train which is obviously wrong...
13:07	<Rubidium>	sin is in radians
13:07	<prophet05>	not on a calculator
13:08	<Zuu>	Rubidium: sin can work with degrees on my calculator.
13:08	<Maedhros>	and the result is unitless anyway, which means what you're actually measuring is the speed vertically
13:08	<Maedhros>	not the force
13:09	<Zuu>	hmm.. F = ma, ... so I need vertical acceleration.. I suck on physics :)
13:10	<prophet05>	what about the planes now?
13:10	[~]	Zuu stops spaming #openttd with IRL-issues :D
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13:14	<ln->	Zuu: are you trying to count the G force only with sin(angle) times velocity?
13:17	<Zuu>	ln-: Yes
13:18	<peter1138>	that seems a bit simplistic
13:18	<ln->	the unit of sin(x) * velocity is velocity (m/s), not m/s^2 as it should be, first of all.
13:19	<ln->	and second thing, you seem to be happily multiplying [km/h] and expect to get results that are sensible as [m/s].
13:19	<Zuu>	But I relize that the track will not change angle on a single point but on say 100 meter and the length of this have to be translated to some vertical acceleration factor... (my guess)
13:20	<Zuu>	ln-: Okay, many stupid things I've done :)
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13:24	<ln->	you probably should be doing the calculation by using angular velocity/acceleration, or something.
13:25	<Wolf01>	Maedhros, how's the work with adjoin stations?
13:26	<Maedhros>	stalled for the moment, until i understand the issues peter1138 brought up...
13:28	<Wolf01>	i show them to you
13:28	<Wolf01>	wait for some minutes to compile and set up the game cam
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13:31	<Thomas[NL]>	cd o*
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13:50	<Wolf01>	Maedhros, can you play wmv movies?
13:51	<Maedhros>	hopefully, unless they're encrypted, or anything strange like that :)
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13:52	<Wolf01>	i can't find a software to compress a little the .avi
13:53	<Wolf01>	i have only windows movie maker and some other softwares, but they make only little videos where you can't see what's happening
13:54	<Wolf01>	or at least they should make them well if i want to learn how to use them
13:54	<Wolf01>	http://wolf01.game-host.org/OTTD_related/patches/ghoststations.wmv
13:54	<hylje>	what
13:55	<boekabart>	Wolf01: xvid might be a free option to make avi's?
13:56	<Maedhros>	ooh, my internet connection's pretty slow today
13:56	[~]	Maedhros blames his housemates
13:56	<Wolf01>	no, that's hosted on my server
13:56	<Wolf01>	i have only 256kbps of upload
13:56	<Maedhros>	ah, ok
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13:57	<Maedhros>	Wolf01: was this video made with your patch or mine, btw?
13:57	<Wolf01>	my one
13:57	<Wolf01>	without the check
13:57	<Maedhros>	oh, ok
13:57	<Wolf01>	if (HASBIT(p1, 24) & est != INVALID_STATION) return CMD_ERROR;
13:57	<Maedhros>	you can't make ghost stations with my patch anyway...
13:58	<Wolf01>	i hope that
14:00	<Wolf01>	i should download virtualdub also on this pc
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14:08	<Lex>	óäàëåííàÿ Ðàáîòà â Èíòåðíåòå!!!áûñòðûé àáñîëþòíî ëåãàëüíûé è ãàðàíòèðîâàíûé çàðàáîòîê âñåãî çà 1,5-2 ÷àñà â äåíü íå âûõîäÿ èç äîìà
14:08	<Lex>	ïîäðîáíîñòè òóò:: http://www.stroyanch.boom.ru
14:08	<peter1138>	really
14:08	<Wolf01>	eh, yes
14:09	<peter1138>	i'm so pleased for you
14:09	<Sacro>	i think his utf-8 is broken
14:09	<Sacro>	or mine is
14:09	<peter1138>	however, to really get your message across, use UTF8 :p
14:09	<peter1138>	Sacro: russians seem to despise utf8
14:09	<Sacro>	peter1138: well... how does he expect us to read it
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14:10	<Sacro>	Lex: you might wanna use utf-8, at least then we can read your spam
14:15	<Maedhros>	peter1138: i'm still a bit confused. how would you want adjacent stations to work?
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14:17	<Biff>	http://discrete.eimot.no/~magne/openttd/no_unwanted_news_in_backlog.patch did anyone look at this?
14:18	<Desolator>	i have a problem getting 2cc in ottd (using nightly)
14:19	<Desolator>	i replaced the SH188 (or whatever the temperate DMU is called) with my 2cc dmu, but only the 1st is shown, the 2nd is shown as pure green
14:20	<Maedhros>	heh, do you have a screenshot of that?
14:20	<Desolator>	yes
14:21	<Desolator>	sending via DCC
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14:21	<RobertGrammig>	I think using station spread to decrease arrival time of goods / increase distance reward is very lame, but I dont want to forbid building large stations in general
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14:22	<RobertGrammig>	is there a patch/grf that makes it that a) reward is based on the closest station tile distance b) effective arrival time penalizes for distance from industry to arrival station?
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14:26	<Desolator>	http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/6292/bucurestitransport21stfbo5.png --> 2cc not owrknig, only 1cc is shown
14:26	<Desolator>	*working
14:26	<Desolator>	warning! big scheenshot (1280x1024)
14:27	<hylje>	Desolator: iirc base grf doesnt support 2cc?
14:28	<Desolator>	not sure
14:28	<Desolator>	i don't see why
14:28	<hylje>	because they're straight from ttd
14:28	<Maedhros>	is this a grf you've made yourself? if not, what is it?
14:29	<glx>	2cc is a newgrf feature
14:29	<Desolator>	it's a hack to trg1r.grf
14:29	<Maedhros>	then no, it won't support 2cc
14:30	<Desolator>	will it work if i load it manually? i'm too lazy to go throguh all the nfo
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14:31	<Maedhros>	it'll only work if you set bit 1 of the miscflags using an action 0
14:31	<Desolator>	ummm...
14:32	[~]	Desolator goes to ttdp wiki
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14:35	<Desolator>	so what are miscflags?
14:37	<Maedhros>	these: http://wiki.ttdpatch.net/tiki-index.php?page=Action0Trains#Miscellaneous_flags_27_ ;)
14:39	<Desolator>	thanks
14:42	<peter1138>	heh
14:45	<peter1138>	rubadub crumble in the oven :D
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14:45	<Sacro></