TheGrebs.com:IRC Logs:#openttd:2007:05:03

---	Log	opened Thu May 03 00:00:44 2007
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02:57	<Wolf01>	hello
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03:09	<Wolf01>	http://www.tt-forums.net/download.php?id=69799 horrible vision...
03:11	<peter1138>	hmm?
03:12	<Wolf01>	those aquaducts...
03:12	<peter1138>	shame about the glitches
03:14	<Wolf01>	they have no deepth, used without criteria, glitches
03:14	<peter1138>	all bridges are a visual hack anyway
03:14	<peter1138>	and tunnel entrances
03:14	<Wolf01>	yeah, but they (aquaducts) are the most evident
03:15	<peter1138>	just imagine the aqueduct has a curved bottom
03:16	<Wolf01>	brr build over tunnel entrances without basetunnels
03:17	<Wolf01>	yes, but aquaducts, and all other bridges, should be built 2 levels over the terrain IF there is something under
03:18	<peter1138>	yes, and like all other bridges that restriction doesn't exist yet
03:19	<Wolf01>	i know that something was tried with the first version of the magic bridges patch, where you were able to build a bridge over a bridge but if under there was not a pillar or you had to find an higher point
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03:26	<peter1138>	first version?
03:28	<Wolf01>	i have it
03:28	<peter1138>	the first version is ancient and was abandonned
03:28	<peter1138>	the second version is what we've got
03:29	<Wolf01>	r5148
03:30	<peter1138>	- Fix: [YAPF] RVs can now find depot they are currently in (thanks Darkvater)
03:30	<peter1138>	?
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03:30	<Wolf01>	its around it, it was removed soon
03:30	<peter1138>	it was merged once, reverted, and then merged again
03:30	<peter1138>	that's the second version
03:30	<peter1138>	all of it
03:32	<Wolf01>	i remember in that version you were able to build bridges over stations (single track only, but you were able to place stations under bridges) and over bridges
03:33	<peter1138>	yes, that stuff was fixed
03:34	<EdwardTLS>	hi you all
03:35	<Wolf01>	hi
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04:53	<HMage>	!logs
04:53	<SpComb>	Logs: http://zapotek.paivola.fi/~terom/logs/openttd
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05:45	<rane>	DaleStan: i figured "signal related" would be enough of a detail
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05:59	<peter1138>	usually signal bugs are just 'non-expected' behaviour
06:02	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: rubidium * r9772 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Fix [r9770,FS#761]: under some circumstances loading/unloading didn't work (correctly).
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06:13	<peter1138>	rane, so something more specific, perhaps...
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07:07	<maddy>	Brianetta: you're here?
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07:23	<Brianetta>	maddy: I am here
07:27	<maddy>	can you reset the game (once more) pls :D
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07:31	<RobertGrammig>	Ive got a town with 90% passenger and mail coverage and big good supply but it just wont grow... what possible reasons are there?
07:31	<RobertGrammig>	each time I make the commercial building funding town size rises for some time but then drops again
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07:36	<maddy>	Brianetta: still there?
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07:42	<Patrick>	have you got buses driving circles in the town?
07:43	<Patrick>	or is that the coverage thing
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07:50	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	RobertGrammig: towns in snow need food, and towns in desert need food and water
07:51	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	and if you play the nightly, check the patch setting for town growth, it might be set to "none"
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08:08	<Brianetta>	maddy: Still here.
08:09	<maddy>	Brianetta: can you reset the game please?
08:09	<Brianetta>	I need a little more info than that
08:11	<maddy>	lol
08:11	<maddy>	Brianetta's standard
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08:36	<maddy>	Brianetta: the server is still starting up?
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10:55	<elmex>	is there any official openttd game server?
10:55	<TrueBrain>	nope
10:55	<Phazorx>	servers.openttd.org
10:55	<Rubidium>	TrueBrain: the question is ambiguous
10:56	<TrueBrain>	that is just the listing of the servers :)
10:56	<TrueBrain>	Rubidium: it sure is, so I answer with the easiest reply ;)
10:56	<Phazorx>	DEBUG(net, 0, "Trying to execute a packet in the past!");
10:56	<Rubidium>	http://nightly.openttd.org/devs/scoreboard.php <- *_dedicated are 'official' openttd servers ;)
10:57	<TrueBrain>	Rubidium: even worse: any server online is most likely an 'official' openttd game server :p
10:57	<Phazorx>	network.cpp 1201 9769
10:57	<TrueBrain>	besides the one with a M of course :)
10:57	<Phazorx>	dont see anything in the logn for that being fixed
10:57	<TrueBrain>	it doesn't happen often that we fix things that are there to prevent errors
10:59	<Rubidium>	Phazorx: did a game of you trigger that debug message?
10:59	<Phazorx>	Rubidium: assert after that
10:59	<Phazorx>	we have major desync at coopers server
10:59	<Phazorx>	with 73 and 76
11:00	<Phazorx>	updating to 79 now
11:00	<Phazorx>	but i dont see anything in logs affecting entwork
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11:00	<TrueBrain>	when you see that debug line, something is pretty wrong
11:00	<Rubidium>	73, 76 and 79?
11:00	<peter1138>	old revisions :)
11:00	<TrueBrain>	no wonder it fails :p
11:01	<Rubidium>	but where do the 73, 76 and 79 come from?
11:02	<Rubidium>	as it cannot be 9773, 9776 etc.
11:04	<elmex>	hm, sometimes big parts of the langscape change height randomly, is that the AI that tries something?
11:04	<TrueBrain>	elmex: most likely
11:06	<+glx>	AI doesn't pay for landscaping
11:07	[~]	peter1138 idly wonders what revision AI landscaping got broken...
11:07	<peter1138>	or maybe i'm wrong in remembering it not doing that...
11:07	[~]	Rubidium guesses since TGP
11:08	<TrueBrain>	nah, it always was 'broken'
11:08	<TrueBrain>	randomly changing landscape massive
11:08	<+glx>	but TGP is worse for AI
11:08	<TrueBrain>	that is true
11:10	<elmex>	i;ve once killed the station of an AI that was in progress of building a track from it by buying up land that was freed from his track when backtracking
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11:15	<Phazorx>	Rubidium: it is 9773 9776 abd 9779
11:15	<Phazorx>	which are pretty recent
11:15	<Phazorx>	and i dont see entwork code changes inbetween
11:17	<Phazorx>	70still desyncs :/
11:17	<Phazorx>	79
11:19	<Rubidium>	how can 9779, 9776 or 9773 desync?
11:20	<Phazorx>	apparently very easy
11:20	<Phazorx>	server just been restarted with 79
11:20	<Rubidium>	we're only at 9772...
11:20	<Phazorx>	and we got players dropping already
11:20	<Phazorx>	ooops
11:20	<Phazorx>	make these 7s - 6s
11:21	<Phazorx>	9769
11:21	<Phazorx>	66 63
11:21	<Rubidium>	when did the desyncs happen?
11:21	<Rubidium>	*start to happen
11:23	<eJoJ>	9734 was the first one I noticed it in
11:25	<Phazorx>	Rubidium: hard to say
11:25	<eJoJ>	Phazorx: did it not start in the chaos game?
11:26	<Rubidium>	is only a subset of users desyncing?
11:26	<eJoJ>	becouse i did not see anything of it in 9712 wich was the one we used before that
11:26	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	<Phazorx> and i dont see entwork code changes inbetween <- desyncs are extremely rarely caused by the network code, usually they are signs of inconsistencies in the game code
11:28	<Rubidium>	how easily is it reproducable?
11:28	<TrueBrain>	if we are talking about the error above, it most likely is one client who is fucking things up
11:28	<Rubidium>	or rather, can you make it reproducable?
11:30	<Phazorx>	well one of players still cant join
11:30	<Phazorx>	if i may ask - some of you try to get to coop sandbox?
11:30	<Rubidium>	he desyncs immediatelly?
11:30	<Phazorx>	it runs 69 now
11:30	<Phazorx>	well if it desyncs - play can not join for a while normally
11:30	<Phazorx>	i got dropped and then desynced 4 times after that
11:31	<Phazorx>	when we upgraded
11:31	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	if you desync repeatedly right after load, it indicates, that someting is not saved correctly
11:31	<Rubidium>	what we need to make it anywhere debuggable is a server savegame that you load in the server which desyncs when the client joins (within a few game days/weeks)
11:32	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	a workaround in that case would be, to save the server game, and restart the server
11:32	<TrueBrain>	let's start with the basics: are you running a clean checkout?
11:33	<elmex>	is there a way to see the value ofthe loaded cargo of something? eg. when i have a train with 10 coal trucks i would love an estimation of the income it will bring me
11:33	<Phazorx>	Eddi\|zuHause3: define saved ?
11:33	<Phazorx>	Eddi\|zuHause3: we did save upgrade and restart
11:33	<Phazorx>	at least of players got desynced at 1st join after that
11:33	<Rubidium>	elmex: that depends on the distances and the time taken to get the cargo there
11:34	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	well, if that does not help, the problem is deeper than that...
11:34	<elmex>	Rubidium: hmm, thats right. but isn't the distance defined by the distance to the station to bring the cargo to? and the time could be 'now'
11:34	<Phazorx>	and same game goes on for a while
11:34	<Phazorx>	it was desyncing during previos one as well
11:34	<Phazorx>	a week ago
11:34	<Phazorx>	less aggressive than on 66 tho
11:34	<TrueBrain>	Phazorx: are you running a clean checkout? (e.g.: no patches)
11:35	<Phazorx>	2 players desync now all time
11:35	<Phazorx>	TrueBrain: AFAIK - yes
11:35	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	the next step would be to go backwards in revisions, to check, which revision caused the desyncs
11:35	<TrueBrain>	Phazorx: make sure please
11:35	<TrueBrain>	(svn diff)
11:36	<Phazorx>	asking person who updated 1 sek
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11:36	<Phazorx>	<MUcht> svn up -r
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11:37	<TrueBrain>	either 'svn diff' or 'svn status'
11:37	<hylje>	hylje@fishtank:~/Projects/ottd/coop$ svn diff
11:37	<hylje>	hylje@fishtank:~/Projects/ottd/coop$
11:37	<TrueBrain>	good
11:38	<TrueBrain>	does it happen with a new game?
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11:40	<hylje>	hard to test
11:40	<TrueBrain>	why?
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11:40	<hylje>	need to set up another server, etc
11:40	<hylje>	me, im behind nat
11:40	<TrueBrain>	just run: 'save'
11:40	<TrueBrain>	'newgame'
11:40	<TrueBrain>	:p
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11:40	<hylje>	peoples playing thar
11:40	<hylje>	don't probably approve
11:41	<TrueBrain>	but it is desyncing ;)
11:41	<TrueBrain>	so not everyone desyncs?
11:41	<hylje>	yes
11:41	<TrueBrain>	Which OSes do desync, which don't?
11:41	<hylje>	just me and some others
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11:41	<hylje>	i'm guessing linux desyncs
11:42	<TrueBrain>	please do not guess
11:42	<hylje>	at least i didnt give that as a fact
11:42	<TrueBrain>	I ment to say: please do ask to who ever desyncs which OS they are running
11:42	<TrueBrain>	(and more, if it is PPC or i?68 :))
11:42	<hylje>	yes
11:43	<Phazorx>	win32 - desyncs
11:43	<eJoJ>	Windows desyncs as well
11:43	<eJoJ>	win32 as Phazorx say is the one i use
11:44	<Phazorx>	testing with osx now
11:44	<TrueBrain>	also with this version: http://nightly.openttd.org/devs/files/OTTD-win32-nightly-r9769.zip
11:44	<Phazorx>	hylje: runs linux
11:44	<Phazorx>	the link you have - is what i wgeted
11:44	<TrueBrain>	good
11:45	<Phazorx>	<sandbox> hylje has joined the game
11:45	<Phazorx>	<sandbox> hylje has left the game (desync error)
11:45	<Phazorx>	that's linux compile
11:45	<TrueBrain>	so, it is a real desync ;)
11:45	<hylje>	im setting up a precompiled atm
11:47	<antichaos>	hi, VC is complaining about having to force into to bool in 'bool ful_load = front_v->current_order.flags & OF_FULL_LOAD'
11:48	<antichaos>	would it be correct to use 'bool full_load = HASBIT(front_v->current_order.flags, OFB_FULL_LOAD);' instead?
11:48	<+glx>	antichaos: which rev?
11:48	<antichaos>	9772 - latest svn
11:48	<antichaos>	759 of vehicle.cpp
11:48	<hylje>	precompiled seems to work this far
11:48	<+glx>	ok trying to compile
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11:49	<hylje>	pof
11:49	<Phazorx>	were you spectating ?
11:50	<Phazorx>	okay hylje was spectating and got droped as well using binary
11:52	<elmex>	Rubidium: wouldn't it be enough to display GetTransportedGoodsIncome with the cargo of the train and the station it brings the cargo to (of course only accepted cargo)?
11:53	<TrueBrain>	I hate newgrf, did I ever told you guys that?
11:53	<hylje>	i recall yes
11:53	<TrueBrain>	:)
11:56	<Osai>	TrueBrain: it might be an endian problem imho
11:56	<Osai>	because at the beginning I saved the game
11:56	<TrueBrain>	Osai: only if the server is ppc
11:57	<Osai>	then I downloaded it to my local machine which is ppc
11:57	<TrueBrain>	Osai: which I doubt :) The reason I asked for the OSes which desynced :)
11:58	<antichaos>	while the devs are changing the cargo delivery code, would there be any interest in a rewrite of DeliverGoodsToIndustry which does cargo distribution within station catchement area?
11:58	<Osai>	activated total town replacement in sp (on my mac 10.4.9+ppc G4) and uploaded it again
11:58	<Osai>	I think that could cause those problems
11:58	<Osai>	but I am not sure
11:58	<Phazorx>	Osai: still have orignal save ?
11:58	<Osai>	yes
11:58	<TrueBrain>	Osai: it in fact shouldn't, but of course it is possible
11:58	<Phazorx>	can you diff em
11:59	<Osai>	diff with what?
11:59	<Phazorx>	before and after change
11:59	<Phazorx>	aside of tgf setting nothing else should be different
11:59	<Osai>	sec
12:01	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	diff savegames? sounds like an awful idea :p
12:01	<Phazorx>	Eddi\|zuHause3: it's a save game with no game changes in it
12:01	<Phazorx>	only settings
12:01	<Phazorx>	which i hope will be confirmed
12:02	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	yes, but savegames are compressed
12:02	<Phazorx>	ogh
12:02	<TrueBrain>	and binary
12:02	<@Belugas>	antichaos, do you have a patch for that rewrite of DeliverGoodsToIndustry? Or do you plan for that? Or do you just ask for that feature?
12:02	<Phazorx>	didnt know that
12:02	<Phazorx>	binary or not settings wont matter
12:02	<Phazorx>	but compressed is an issue
12:02	<TrueBrain>	you can uncompress :p But it is an impossible job
12:03	<Phazorx>	can and impossible in same sentence...
12:03	<antichaos>	I have a patch that I wrote for industry budgets. But I can do a standalone version
12:04	<@Belugas>	antichaos, please do. I would like to see that :)
12:04	<antichaos>	But I'm not sure I'm tracking the list of industries near each station in a sensible way
12:04	<Osai>	we could load the save before I did this change
12:05	<TrueBrain>	give it a spin
12:05	<Osai>	its an empty game
12:05	<TrueBrain>	and please do send me the savegame
12:05	<Osai>	dcc, mail?
12:05	<TrueBrain>	(both, if possible)
12:05	<TrueBrain>	http?
12:05	<Osai>	kk
12:05	<Eddi\|zuHause3>	catchment area is a rectangle, right? so you only have to go through the industry list, and calculate distance (maximum-norm)
12:05	<Osai>	those old ones?
12:06	<TrueBrain>	one you got before your changes, one after your changes, and try the one before your changes, and see what happens :)
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12:08	<CIA-1>	OpenTTD: glx * r9773 /trunk/src/vehicle.cpp: -Fix r9772: MSVC warning
12:08	<Phazorx>	Cipri: were you desyncing as well on SB?
12:10	<Osai>	TrueBrain: http://openttdcoop.ppcis.org/blog/files/osai/desnyc_game_before.sav
12:10	<Osai>	http://openttdcoop.ppcis.org/blog/files/osai/desync_game_after.sav
12:10	<TrueBrain>	403
12:10	<Phazorx>	.sav proully not in white list
12:11	<Osai>	fix
12:11	<Osai>	ed
12:11	<Osai>	stupid ftp :D
12:11	<Phazorx>	ftp?
12:11	<Osai>	s/ftp/sftp
12:11	<Phazorx>	permissions?
12:11	<Osai>	well I did the upload via sftp
12:20	\|-\|	Cipri [~cipri@i86151.upc-i.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 480 seconds]
12:21	<TrueBrain>	Osai: did you load up the _before?
12:21	<Osai>	yes
12:21	<TrueBrain>	did it help?
12:21	<Phazorx>	we loaded last game so far
12:21	<Phazorx>	10 days ago
12:21	<Osai>	everyone was able to join
12:21	<Phazorx>	which hylje wasnt able to join
12:21	<Phazorx>	now he's in w/o GRF change
12:22	<TrueBrain>	let me know when it desyncs again (if ever)
12:24	<Osai>	I feel like TTRS is doing the problems
12:24	<Osai>	actually hylje was able to join the after game (with TTRS)
12:25	<Osai>	I dunno whether growing cities with more TTRS buildings have an influence on that :(
12:27	<hylje>	lets just have a ttrs-less game next time
12:27	<Osai>	yep
12:28	<@Belugas>	i doubt ttrs would cause it, since newhouses was introduced a "long" time ago
12:29	<@Belugas>	or is it the first time you've tried to play with it?
12:29	<TrueBrain>	Belugas: means it was just hiding all the time ;)
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12:29	<Osai>	no we played with it before
12:29	<Osai>	and it worked
12:29	<TrueBrain>	you guys really have too many grfs :p
12:29	<@Belugas>	so, it must be something else...
12:30	<TrueBrain>	Belugas: once there was a bug in newgrf handling that only surfaced with certain buildings and combinations of
12:30	<@Belugas>	TrueBrain, grfs are fun :)
12:30	<TrueBrain>	so it still isn't conclusive :)
12:30	<@Belugas>	could be
12:30	<@Belugas>	ok... "so, it may be something else" :P
12:31	<TrueBrain>	it can be almost anything :)
12:31	\|-\|	Cipri [~cipri@i86151.upc-i.chello.nl] has joined #openttd
12:31	<@Belugas>	anyway, resuming work@work
12:31	<TrueBrain>	good luck Belugas :)
12:32	<Phazorx>	grrrr
12:32	<Phazorx>	<sandbox> Phazorx has joined the game
12:32	<Phazorx>	<sandbox> Phazorx has left the game (desync error)
12:32	<Rubidium>	most likely candidates are r9712 till r9734
12:32	<Phazorx>	that was instant on paused game
12:32	<Cipri>	Phazorx: Yeah, me too.
12:32	<Phazorx>	as soon as we loaded last save
12:32	<TrueBrain>	what did the server say?
12:32	<Phazorx>	that's what server said
12:32	<TrueBrain>	server console
12:33	<Rubidium>	it desyncs when the server is paused?
12:33	<Phazorx>	asking someone to look at it... hang on
12:33	<Osai>	console said nothing else
12:33	<Phazorx>	Rubidium: usualy it was desyncing when it wasnt
12:33	<TrueBrain>	desync check doesn't run when game is in pause :)
12:34	<TrueBrain>	Osai: which game was that? the _before one?
12:34	<Phazorx>	makes even less sense now
12:34	<Osai>	nope
12:34	<TrueBrain>	Osai: then which?
12:34	<Osai>	TrueBrain: I loaded the actual game
12:34	<TrueBrain>	'actual game'?
12:34	<Phazorx>	last one we savede
12:34	<Phazorx>	rather than one osai experimented with
12:34	<TrueBrain>	wasn't the _before the one Osai didn't experiment with?
12:35	<Rubidium>	Osai: can you turn on autosave at 1 month for the server, then run the server till the first client desyncs and give us the last 3 savegames and the day the client joined?
12:35	<Osai>	would be possible
12:36	<TrueBrain>	how many clients were there? And were they there from the start, or did the desync client join later?
12:37	<Rubidium>	hmm, even better, give us the savegame of the last client that joined and didn't desync :)
12:37	<TrueBrain>	Rubidium: you do know what you ask them ;)
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12:37	<Cipri>	This still the lots-of-water game?
12:37	<Rubidium>	TrueBrain: yes, running Brianetta server thingy
12:37	<Cipri>	'cause there is one odd thing in that game. Those stepped-stations.
12:38	<TrueBrain>	but I wonder if the clients that desync are the ones that join, and if a client that doesn't desync leaves, he can rejoin or not?
12:38	<Phazorx>	so... whats the action plan - jon one player, unpause
12:38	<Phazorx>	turn on sautosaves
12:38	<Phazorx>	join one by one
12:39	<Phazorx>	and present saves when desyncs?
12:39	<Cipri>	I blame those stations...
12:39	<TrueBrain>	Phazorx: can any client _join_ without being desynced? (so not a client that is already in-game)
12:39	<Phazorx>	TrueBrain: some can some can not
12:39	<Phazorx>	osai has least problems
12:39	<Phazorx>	hylje: most
12:39	<TrueBrain>	but is there any client who doesn't hav eproblems when he rejoins?
12:39	[~]	Cipri can't join either.
12:39	<Phazorx>	rest (5-6 players) get dropped at random
12:40	<Phazorx>	TrueBrain: last time it worked - i rejoined 4 times
12:40	<TrueBrain>	and does a client get dropped which joined from the beginning?
12:40	<Phazorx>	after that it was okay for a while
12:40	<Phazorx>	then got desynced again
12:40	<Cipri>	Hey cool, I managed to join this time.
12:40	<Phazorx>	i tihnk there is less chances of that happeneing
12:41	<TrueBrain>	I am not asking about chances, and this is pretty important
12:41	<TrueBrain>	if a client joins right after the server started, does he ever desync?
12:41	<Rubidium>	Phazorx: basically as much savegames you can get your hand on made by the server, so we might reproduce it
12:41	<Phazorx>	okay
12:41	<Osai>	yes
12:42	<TrueBrain>	Osai: yes to what? :)
12:42	<Rubidium>	because reproducing it is the most important step; no way to reproduce means that we have to 'guess' which isn't really usefull in thousands (if not millions) lines of code
12:42	<Phazorx>	i asked him a Q in other channel :)
12:43	<TrueBrain>	What Rubidium says :)
12:43	<TrueBrain>	Phazorx: what I try to picture is the timeline of desyncs
12:43	<Phazorx>	Rubidium: i know that
12:43	<TrueBrain>	Phazorx: like there is a BIG difference between all clients desyncing at the same time
12:43	<TrueBrain>	or a new client joining desyncing
12:43	<TrueBrain>	or clients that are ingame for a long time, desyncing
12:43	<Phazorx>	all at same time - almost enver happened
12:43	<Phazorx>	i seen that once
12:43	<Phazorx>	on join - often
12:43	<Phazorx>	and only one who is joining
12:43	<TrueBrain>	I seen it thouasand of times but we are talking about THIS case
12:44	<Cipri>	People always get desynched right after they join.
12:44	<Phazorx>	after a while, no join no leaves same number of plasyers - sometimes
12:44	<Cipri>	But once you're in, you're fine.
12:44	<Phazorx>	Cipri: not correct
12:44	<Phazorx>	i got dropped after an hour last time
12:44	<hylje>	i get delayed desyncs :p
12:44	<Phazorx>	and no one joined at same time
12:44	<Cipri>	Oh. Sorry. I always got/saw instant-desynch's
12:44	<Rubidium>	hylje: what is delayed?
12:45	<Rubidium>	how much time?
12:45	<hylje>	it appears random
12:45	<hylje>	but some time after join when doing something it suddenly desyncs
12:45	<TrueBrain>	hylje: in game-days, between which range?
12:45	<Rubidium>	is it after 2 minutes or after 2 hours?
12:45	<hylje>	minutes
12:45	<Rubidium>	probably still the same cause (only better hidden)
12:45	<Osai>	sorry I can't join this game anymore, my laptop is not able to handle the 500 trains
12:46	<TrueBrain>	Rubidium: it smells like some data not saved and not used often
12:46	<TrueBrain>	or wrongly recalculated
12:46	<Osai>	I keep loosing the connection
12:46	<Phazorx>	i got client crash one time at desync
12:46	<Phazorx>	at line i posted when i came here
12:46	<TrueBrain>	Phazorx: most likely irrelevant
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12:47	<Phazorx>	TrueBrain: it says sometihng that made sense
12:47	<Phazorx>	but possible
12:47	<Rubidium>	peter1138: are there GRFs that have some internal state that they use for callbacks etc? (i.e. is it possible to have that?)
12:47	<Zuu>	Rubidium: Last time I counted I count to 50 000 lines of code, but that was probably without sub directories of ./src/ :)
12:47	<TrueBrain>	what is said was that you received a package to handle on a timestamp that was passed the current timestamp. Doesn't really make sense after a desync
12:47	<Zuu>	hmm, silly backlog :/
12:47	<Phazorx>	TrueBrain: it was pretty much during rather than after
12:48	<TrueBrain>	Total Physical Source Lines of Code (SLOC) = 121,923
12:48	<Phazorx>	but it's just a guess
12:48	<TrueBrain>	Development Effort Estimate, Person-Years (Person-Months) = 31.00 (372.05)
12:48	<Phazorx>	i hear you
12:48	<TrueBrain>	(Basic COCOMO model, Person-Months = 2.4 * (KSLOC**1.05))
12:48	<TrueBrain>	Schedule Estimate, Years (Months) = 1.98 (23.70)
12:48	<TrueBrain>	(Basic COCOMO model, Months = 2.5 * (person-months**0.38))
12:48	<TrueBrain>	Estimated Average Number of Developers (Effort/Schedule) = 15.70
12:48	<Rubidium>	and SLOC is WITHOUT documentation and/or whitelines!
12:48	<TrueBrain>	Total Estimated Cost to Develop = $ 4,188,240
12:48	<TrueBrain>	(average salary = $56,286/year, overhead = 2.40).
12:48	<Phazorx>	lol
12:48	<TrueBrain>	cpp: 107173 (87.90%)
12:49	<Noldo>	TrueBrain: what's that?
12:49	<TrueBrain>	ansic: 14442 (11.85%)
12:49	<TrueBrain>	sh: 302 (0.25%)
12:49	<TrueBrain>	asm: 6 (0.00%)
12:49	<Rubidium>	Noldo: never heard of sloccount?
12:49	<Noldo>	no
12:49	<TrueBrain>	Welcome to OpenTTD
12:50	<TrueBrain>	OpenTTD contains 107,173 CPP lines
12:50	<TrueBrain>	of which 14,438 is table-work
12:50	<TrueBrain>	all trains and their speed, and more of that shit
12:50	<TrueBrain>	sloc -> source line of code
12:50	<TrueBrain>	it counts how big a project is
12:50	<TrueBrain>	like this project is worth 4M $ ;)
12:50	<TrueBrain>	and should take 31 years to program for 1 person :)
12:50	<+glx>	we were rich if we were paid :)
12:50	<ln->	chris sawyer would be rich if he was paid.
12:51	<TrueBrain>	he got payed for TT
12:51	<TrueBrain>	and he is rich
12:51	<TrueBrain>	Osai: you have the url to the grf pack?
12:51	<TrueBrain>	(lazy :p)
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12:51	<hylje>	wait, what? we has assembly?
12:51	<TrueBrain>	6 lines, yes
12:51	<TrueBrain>	win64.asm
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12:52	<Osai>	TrueBrain: this one will work: http://openttdcoop.ammler.ch/pub/samba/ottdc_grfpack_4beta.zip
12:52	<Osai>	all grfs you need are inside
12:55	<Osai>	how to change save interval via console?
12:56	<TrueBrain>	Osai: the '_before' you sent me, does it also cause those desyncs?
12:57	<Osai>	no
12:57	<Osai>	but the game is almost empty
12:57	<Rubidium>	TrueBrain: does r9707 like a suspect?
12:57	<TrueBrain>	Rubidium: I think that is a big fat: YES
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12:58	<Phazorx>	TrueBrain: osai is resseting server so it does saves
12:58	<TrueBrain>	Rubidium: depending on the newgrf, that is network unsafe
12:58	<Phazorx>	how many desyncs toy want in it?
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12:59	<Phazorx>	TrueBrain/Rubidium you guys shouild join #openttdcoop and watch the desyncs realtime
13:00	<TrueBrain>	Rubidium: those things aren't used upon load with those grfs
13:00	<Rubidium>	TrueBrain: maybe not, but when they store some internal state of the GRF...
13:01	<TrueBrain>	I totally agree with you
13:02	<peter1138>	Rubidium: ish
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13:05	<peter1138>	only grf i've seen using what 9707 adds is an unreleased NARS version
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13:05	<TrueBrain>	:)
13:05	<TrueBrain>	but the potential desync should be underlined :)
13:05	<peter1138>	and the data is not persistent
13:05	<peter1138>	(well it is, but only because i didn't bother clearing it, as it's hardly ever used)
13:06	<TrueBrain>	Phazorx: is it already desyncing?
13:06	<peter1138>	besides, there have been odd desyncs way before that :)_
13:06	<Phazorx>	we got 2 so far
13:06	<TrueBrain>	peter1138: and there will always be :p
13:06	<TrueBrain>	Phazorx: clients who joined from the start?
13:06	<Phazorx>	it could be visit -effect
13:06	<Phazorx>	2 clients who joined rigth after restert got dropped right away
13:06	<Phazorx>	then rejoined fine
13:06	<peter1138>	large terraforming does it sometimes
13:07	<TrueBrain>	now see, that is just odd :)
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13:07	<Phazorx>	TrueBrain: looks like visit effect in action we have less issues with Rubidium present in channel
13:08	<Rubidium>	you were just faking desync ;)
13:08	<TrueBrain>	I want pass :p
13:08	<TrueBrain>	(to join the game, that is)
13:08	<TrueBrain>	lol, gui glitches in network dialog :)
13:08	<Rubidium>	TrueBrain: join #openttdcoop, they're spamming the password in there ;)
13:08	<TrueBrain>	cpp_gui hopefully solves most of them :p
13:09	<TrueBrain>	Rubidium: yeah, but I am too lazy
13:09	<TrueBrain>	bah
13:09	<TrueBrain>	I hate invites
13:14	<Cipri>	Is it possible to make multilevel stations yet?
13:15	<Zuu>	Cipri: Yes, but not multiple levels on the same square.
13:16	<Cipri>	Single track trainstations spanning multiple levels?
13:16	<hylje>	we appear to have one
13:16	<hylje>	i dunno htf it was made
13:16	<Cipri>	yeah, exactly.
13:16	<Cipri>	I think someone has a hacked client that allows that.
13:16	<Cipri>	Which might explain the desync?
13:16	<hylje>	but the trains swap level just fine there
13:16	<hylje>	dunno
13:16	<hylje>	it works here now
13:17	<Cipri>	yeah, but /how/ was it made?
13:20	<hylje>	duno
13:24	<Sacro>	so, what are you gonna do now breakpoints have been patented?
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13:30	<Osai^dinner>	re
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13:34	<Ammler>	Osai: you linked directly to the zip :(
13:34	<Osai>	whats the problem with that?
13:34	<Ammler>	now my Statistics will go wrong
13:34	<Osai>	hmm oO
13:35	<Osai>	why?
13:35	<Ammler>	most guys donwloaded 7z until now
13:35	<Ammler>	http://www.ammler.ch/webstat/usage_200705.html#TOPURLS
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13:43	<peter1138>	i won't touch 7z, heh
13:43	<TrueBrain>	7z.... NO WAY
13:44	<hylje>	7z yes way!
13:44	<hylje>	but i prefer bzip
13:45	<peter1138>	hylje: in this case the zip is smaller
13:50	<Ammler>	peter1138: because I made the zip with 7z
13:50	<peter1138>	hmm
13:50	<Ammler>	else it would have same sice
13:50	<Ammler>	!s/sice/size
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14:32	<Phazorx>	back
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14:33	<dihedral>	anybody here good with apache?
14:33	<dihedral>	i somehow cannot get apache to server *.patch files as plain text
14:33	<Phazorx>	mime types?
14:33	<dihedral>	but it will happily server *.sav files as plain text
14:33	<dihedral>	have already set those
14:34	<dihedral>	no change
14:34	<dihedral>	any other ideas?
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14:37	<Phazorx>	it must be mime/file type settings
14:37	<Phazorx>	there is nothing else that affects that
14:37	<Phazorx>	aisde of file perimissions
14:38	<mikk36[EST]>	lol
14:38	<mikk36[EST]>	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0656H34fWrM
14:39	\|-\|	mikk36[EST] changed nick to mikk36
14:40	<dihedral>	the files are only being served to download
14:40	<TrueBrain>	Coop guys: http://devs.openttd.org/~truelight/blog/?p=6 <- this is what you guys triggered me to write :p
14:40	<dihedral>	mime file types have already been set to text/plain
14:43	<dihedral>	TrueBrain: you got 2 the's there >> because of the the newgrf_engine isn’t called, and therefor the game goes wrong.
14:45	<TrueBrain>	dihedral: fixed; but I am sure there are many more english mistakes ;)
14:45	<dihedral>	hehe
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14:46	<dihedral>	could that same thing have caused the desyncs on the 0.5.1 games?
14:46	<dihedral>	ir is that a nightly / trunk issue
14:47	<TrueBrain>	I think thisone is strictly nightly
14:47	<TrueBrain>	but we will know when we find the cause :)
14:47	<dihedral>	btw check out