TheGrebs.com:IRC Logs:#openttd:2007:04:12

---	Log	opened Thu Apr 12 00:00:06 2007
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00:42	<MeusH>	hi
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01:16	<CIA-2>	OpenTTD: peter1138 * r9602 /trunk/src/rail_cmd.cpp: -Fix (r5833): Building rail on steep slopes ignored build_on_slopes patch setting.
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01:51	<Vikthor>	čau
01:52	<Vikthor>	errm Hi!
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03:52	<TrueBrain>	morning all
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04:04	<Zuu>	TrueBrain: Morning :)
04:05	<TrueBrain>	pfew, at least one person who is awake :)
04:05	<Zuu>	Just waked half an hour ago :p
04:05	<TrueBrain>	me 2, so? :)
04:06	<Zuu>	It's pretty late, 10:30 here..
04:06	<TrueBrain>	so? :)
04:07	<peter1138>	waked D:
04:07	<TrueBrain>	peter1138: stfu :p
04:07	<Zuu>	peter1138: Yea how would you spell it?
04:07	<TrueBrain>	!spell waked
04:07	<_42_>	TrueBrain: 'waked' is correctly spelled
04:08	<TrueBrain>	:o:o
04:08	<TrueBrain>	!whatis waked
04:08	<Zuu>	GAIM didn't complain about it.. :)
04:08	<peter1138>	woke
04:08	<TrueBrain>	doesn't mean it has the same meaning Zuu :)
04:08	<TrueBrain>	[11:08][11:08] <TrueBrain> !whatis waked
04:08	<TrueBrain>	[11:08][11:08] <_42_> TrueBrain: Sorry, but 'waked' is unknown to me. Check spelling!
04:08	<TrueBrain>	hehe :)
04:09	<Zuu>	peter1138: Thanks
04:09	<TrueBrain>	[11:08][11:08] <TrueBrain> !whatis woke 5
04:09	<TrueBrain>	[11:08][11:08] <_42_> TrueBrain: [5 of 9] be awake, be alert, be there [ant: {sleep}]
04:09	<TrueBrain>	:)
04:09	<peter1138>	english verbs :D
04:10	<TrueBrain>	I sometimes still have that when I say 'wake' or 'woke', that I have to say the 3 forms... ANNOYING ENGLISH CLASSES
04:10	<peter1138>	also: "My apologizes", hehe
04:10	<peter1138>	-z :p
04:11	<TrueBrain>	Firefox tells me that is how it is spelled :(
04:11	<TrueBrain>	!spell apologizes
04:11	<_42_>	TrueBrain: 'apologizes' is correctly spelled
04:11	<peter1138>	yes, it is, but it's not the word you want
04:11	<TrueBrain>	I had it without 'z' and it failed to give me an okay on it
04:11	<TrueBrain>	I HATE ENGLISH! :)
04:12	[~]	Zuu too, it lacks important wording for my Junctioneer-project. :)
04:12	<Zuu>	/my/his/
04:12	<TrueBrain>	We should all learn Dutch!
04:12	<TrueBrain>	MWHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
04:13	<peter1138>	o_O
04:13	<TrueBrain>	you don't agree or something? :p
04:14	<Zuu>	TrueBrain: Why not something more exotic like lojban (lojban.org) they claim to have ~10 people that can speek it in the world. :)
04:15	<Zuu>	And perhaps some more 50-100 who practice it.
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04:18	<dihedral>	You around Belugas
04:19	<TrueBrain>	Zuu: nah!
04:19	<dihedral>	hello TrueBrain
04:19	<peter1138>	now don't get me started on punctuation...
04:19	<TrueBrain>	peter1138: which you lack of in a very consistent way? :)
04:20	<dihedral>	i need to know if that letter for atari is ready to be sent now...
04:20	<peter1138>	i consistently leave off the last full-stop, yeah
04:21	<TrueBrain>	dihedral: you should ask Belugas; he will be around in a few hours I guess :)
04:21	<peter1138>	i'm wonder who dihedral wants to be around Belugas
04:21	<peter1138>	+ing
04:21	<peter1138>	YOU! around Belugas!
04:22	<peter1138>	whoops, i started o_O
04:22	<dihedral>	i'm lost on that one... peter1138
04:22	<TrueBrain>	and you are starting to talk gibberish
04:22	<peter1138>	the ambiguity of missing punctuation
04:23	<peter1138>	you around belugas could be "you! around belugas!" or maybe "you around, belugas?", but who knows
04:23	<peter1138>	BUT WHO KNOWS?
04:23	<TrueBrain>	okay, if you read it like that, it is pretty funny indeed :)
04:23	<TrueBrain>	Are you around Belugas? :p
04:23	<TrueBrain>	haha
04:23	<TrueBrain>	Like he is some huge fatass person
04:24	<TrueBrain>	haha, okay, I shouldn't try to picture this :)
04:24	<TrueBrain>	anyway, peter1138, take your medicine :)
04:24	<dihedral>	:-P
04:24	<dihedral>	now that was mean
04:24	<TrueBrain>	dihedral: no, he is on a spree
04:24	<dihedral>	have some sypathy with peter1138
04:25	<dihedral>	not just missing punctuation here
04:25	<dihedral>	m
04:25	<boekabart_>	I think this channel has gone offtopic this morning.CET ;)
04:25	<TrueBrain>	offtopic?
04:25	<TrueBrain>	Depends on what you consider ontopic
04:26	<dihedral>	true
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04:26	<TrueBrain>	how I see it: peter1138 is a developer, which is ontopic, and we are talking about what he is talking about
04:26	<TrueBrain>	so that in fact is ontopic
04:26	<dihedral>	hmmm
04:27	<dihedral>	TrueBrain: are you sure peter1138 is the only one in need of medicine?
04:27	<TrueBrain>	:) We all need our shots
04:27	<maad>	:)
04:27	<dihedral>	you nick just blends in perfectly there maad
04:28	<TrueBrain>	and I like his contribution
04:28	<maad>	it's not "mad"!
04:28	<DorpsGek>	bark bark bark woef woef grrrrr
04:28	<TrueBrain>	you name is mad, maad
04:28	<dihedral>	now THAT is offtopic
04:28	<dihedral>	for DorpsGek that is
04:28	<Zuu>	dihedral: Isn't TrueBrain also a developer?
04:28	<maad>	in fact, it should be "maade" but sounds silly....
04:29	<TrueBrain>	Zuu: am I?
04:29	<boekabart_>	Free upgrade :)
04:29	<Zuu>	Though so, don't you got dev-status on forums?
04:29	<dihedral>	isn't everybody in a way...
04:29	<maad>	dihedral: true
04:29	<TrueBrain>	Zuu: possible... I have a lot of statuses :p
04:29	<boekabart_>	even Sergej is a developer (of chaos and mayhem)!
04:29	<dihedral>	lol
04:30	<boekabart_>	please no-one ever tell him about IRC ;)
04:31	<Zuu>	boekabart_: Convince peter1138 that there should not be a IRC-link on the new Main Page then :)
04:31	<dihedral>	peter1138: there should not be a IRC-link on the new Main Page...
04:31	<dihedral>	i tried
04:31	<TrueBrain>	why shouldn't there be?
04:31	<dihedral>	ask Zuu
04:32	<dihedral>	have a quick question about dedicated servers
04:32	<TrueBrain>	okay, very quick then
04:32	<dihedral>	sorry for being slightly offtopic
04:32	<Zuu>	boekabart_ didn't want to have Sergej on IRC, but perhaps he is to lazy to check the wiki anyway :)
04:33	<dihedral>	dedicated servers report to servers.openttd.org - right?
04:33	<TrueBrain>	dihedral: yes
04:33	<boekabart_>	trye
04:33	<boekabart_>	true
04:33	<dihedral>	would it be possible to ad a custom server to report to?
04:33	<TrueBrain>	dihedral: why?
04:33	<dihedral>	so that admins can have those stats on their own website?
04:34	<TrueBrain>	admins can query the server of their likings
04:34	<TrueBrain>	Anyway, for LAN events it is possible, by a simple modification
04:34	<TrueBrain>	for other situations, it mostly is more useful to query the server yourself (as you most likely know the address)
04:34	<TrueBrain>	and soon it is possible to query the masterserver via XMLRPC
04:35	<dihedral>	ah... that sounds sweet
04:35	[~]	Zuu only get half of the letters of XMLRPC :)
04:35	<Zuu>	But it sounds fancy :p
04:35	<TrueBrain>	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XML-RPC
04:37	<dihedral>	that was a conversation killer TrueBrain
04:37	<peter1138>	irc link? what?
04:37	<TrueBrain>	dihedral: it happens
04:40	<boekabart_>	uau!
04:44	<peter1138>	oh
04:44	<peter1138>	Zuu, do you think he'd understand the wiki?
04:44	<Zuu>	peter1138: Would he even try?
04:45	<Zuu>	More seriously, is the channel a place for developers or a place for players?
04:45	<Zuu>	Perhaps the IRC-link should be more on the dev-side of the Main Page?
04:46	<maad>	for developers i think
04:46	<boekabart_>	there is another channel where only devs come i think
04:46	<Zuu>	I was just lazy and added it where it was easy to add :D
04:46	<boekabart_>	peter1138 sent me there once i vaguely recall
04:46	<peter1138>	the supersekritdev channel
04:46	<maad>	just look at the topic
04:47	<dihedral>	is just status and info sent to the masterserver?
04:47	<dihedral>	or is the output from the command players transfered too?
04:47	<boekabart_>	but i still don't know what the 3 letters in the other channel name suffix stand for. peter1138?
04:48	<maad>	.42?
04:49	<peter1138>	who knows
04:50	<peter1138>	dihedral: most of the info is pulled by the masterserver
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04:52	<dihedral>	how is that information pulled? is there a way i could write a php script that would then execute rcon commands for me?
04:52	<peter1138>	well it's not via rcon
04:53	<dihedral>	obviously
04:54	<dihedral>	but is there a way i could 'pull' info with php scripts?
04:54	<Zuu>	peter1138: Please check I've got the wording right about the dev-comunity places: http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/New_Main_Page_test :D
04:54	<@Rubidium>	dihedral: yes
04:54	<Zuu>	Could be a 'to' that should be an 'in' ...
04:55	<dihedral>	Rubidium: does that require autopilot?
04:55	<@Rubidium>	dihedral: no
04:55	<dihedral>	is there a place i can read up on how?
04:55	<@Rubidium>	svn://svn.openttd.org/website/include/openttd.inc.php@9000 I believe
04:56	<@Rubidium>	*includes
04:57	<@Rubidium>	or svn://svn.openttd.org/trunk/src/network/core/udp.h
04:58	<peter1138>	Zuu: where?
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05:03	<Zuu>	peter1138: Last sentence under Development.
05:03	<Zuu>	http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php/New_Main_Page_test
05:04	<Zuu>	Or use history! : http://wiki.openttd.org/index.php?title=New_Main_Page_test&diff=16419&oldid=16373 :)
05:05	<dihedral>	Rubidium: all the ottd.inc.php file shows is a mysql connection, defining constantds, and populating an array...
05:05	<Zuu>	Hmm.. [[IRC channel\|IRC channel]] should obviously be plain [[IRC channel]] ;)
05:05	<@Rubidium>	dihedral: I said openttd.inc.php _and_ gave you a specific revision number...
05:06	<dihedral>	sorry
05:06	<dihedral>	my bad...
05:08	<peter1138>	Zuu: i meant where on the page, heh
05:09	<peter1138>	Zuu: but i guess that means i didn't see anything obvious...
05:11	<dihedral>	sweeeeet
05:11	<dihedral>	thanks Rubidium
05:11	<dihedral>	that looks great
05:12	<@Rubidium>	It won't be update when the network protocol gets updates though
05:15	<dihedral>	hmmm.... shame
05:16	<dihedral>	that thing is really good
05:19	<@Rubidium>	no, it is a maintainance nightmare... 3 different places where the same functionality is coded in yet another language. Now there is only one version that is used everywhere, which is for (hopefully) obvious reasons much easier)
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05:22	[~]	SpComb blames OFTC
05:23	<peter1138>	b-lame
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05:23	[~]	SpComb looks at OpenTTD's socket code
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05:23	<peter1138>	only if you want to go mad
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05:37	<SpComb>	it's relevant to my interests
05:38	<TrueBrain>	so?
05:38	\|-\|	mode/#openttd [+o Belugas] by ChanServ
05:39	<Zuu>	peter1138: I think I told where on the page aka under development.. but if you didn't see anything then it's probably okay. :)
05:39	<Zuu>	Is the orange OpenTTD-logo available as SVG under a lisence that permit me to use it in other creations?
05:40	<Zuu>	I'm trying to make a Manual-book :)
05:40	<blathijs>	I would expect the logo to be available under GPL
05:40	<TrueBrain>	I expect the same, GPL
05:42	<SpComb>	not that the code is particularly easy to digest
05:42	<Zuu>	I found it under media/ in the source-tree so forget my question about where to find it.
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05:47	<dihedral>	well - how about another command line client (in c) that will be able to send rcon commands or fetch data?
05:47	<dihedral>	then in php that would be a simple system() call
05:47	<dihedral>	or am i thinking too much linux like?
05:47	<TrueBrain>	dihedral: how about you keeping the php-script up-to-date for us?
05:47	<dihedral>	to be honest i would love to
05:48	<TrueBrain>	that was easy :)
05:48	<dihedral>	but while i am being honest
05:48	<dihedral>	let me continue
05:48	<TrueBrain>	oh, there is more? :p
05:48	<dihedral>	i need to understand the network side of ottd a lot more,
05:49	<dihedral>	but other than that - i would love to at least give it a try
05:49	<TrueBrain>	you only need to understand a very small subset
05:49	<TrueBrain>	and that is the UDP communication of the QUERY
05:49	<dihedral>	thankfully
05:49	<TrueBrain>	the current php needs to be rewritten
05:49	<TrueBrain>	as the design isn't that good
05:50	<dihedral>	i shall do my best
05:50	<TrueBrain>	but if you feel like it, feel free to make such a php, or in what language you feel fit
05:50	<TrueBrain>	and I promise you I will try to get it somewhere in SVN for others to use :)
05:50	<dihedral>	php will be fine
05:50	<TrueBrain>	(can't promise anything of course :p)
05:50	<TrueBrain>	if you have any questions, feel free to ask
05:50	<dihedral>	np
05:50	<dihedral>	as i have in the past few months
05:50	<dihedral>	i enjoy asking
05:51	<TrueBrain>	people just want to do: $openttd = new OpenTTDServer("IP", "port"); var_dump($openttd->GetData());
05:51	<TrueBrain>	and see tons of data, about the year, companies, players, ...
05:51	<TrueBrain>	maybe with some seperation, but okay, I am sure you have enough ideas ;)
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05:52	<TrueBrain>	welcome Vikthor
05:52	<dihedral>	i was thinking along those lines
05:53	<dihedral>	thou i currently dont know how exactly i can fetch the players information (which integer that is...)
05:53	<dihedral>	in a few days i shall probably have found out :-P
05:53	<TrueBrain>	the C++ file is pretty clear about such things
05:53	<Ailure>	hehe'
05:54	<Ailure>	I managed to lobby someone in another project to use Squirrel as scripting language :)
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05:54	<TrueBrain>	SQ is pretty nice, you just need to fix some things in their code :p
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05:54	<dihedral>	i guess i am looking for an enum where SERVER_RESPONSE is at second place
05:55	<TrueBrain>	src/network/network_udp.cpp
05:55	<TrueBrain>	line 57
05:55	<TrueBrain>	should be all you need
05:55	<dihedral>	sweet
05:55	<dihedral>	you really are a TrueBrain
05:56	<TrueBrain>	and from line 254 it tells you what to send
05:56	<TrueBrain>	(first was what to expect back :))
05:56	<TrueBrain>	the networking code is a really simple system :)
05:57	<dihedral>	great
05:57	<dihedral>	thank you
05:57	<TrueBrain>	euh, the first was what to send, the second what to expect back :)
05:57	<TrueBrain>	hehe :)
05:57	<TrueBrain>	good luck!
05:57	<dihedral>	cheers
05:59	<dihedral>	what is src/network/core/udp.h
05:59	<Ailure>	http://194.47.44.229/openTTD/unoffical-scania/Nyhamnsl%c3%a4ge%20transports,%2014th%20Feb%201944.png
05:59	<Ailure>	Imagine if people had to do that IRL
06:00	<Ailure>	building severeal bridges next to each other as only one train can be on a bridge at a time :)
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06:01	<dihedral>	sorry - that was not suppoed to be a 'what is' but a 'what is with'
06:01	<dihedral>	so let me put that out again
06:01	<dihedral>	what is with src/network/core/udp.h
06:04	<TrueBrain>	some indepth description of a single package. Possible outdated (comments tend to get outdated soon), and maybe Rubidium knows why it is there in the first place :)
06:04	<TrueBrain>	ah, yes, to give a fast overivew which GAME_INFO_VERSION sends which reply :)
06:08	<dihedral>	great... thanks
06:08	<dihedral>	Belugas: are you around?
06:08	<dihedral>	peter1138: that is better is it not?
06:09	<peter1138>	hmm?
06:09	<peter1138>	oh :P
06:09	<boekabart_>	Ailure: image 2 trains behind each other on one bridge in real life
06:10	<boekabart_>	or even close enough behind each other to BE on 1 bridge together in real life
06:10	<boekabart_>	The rail networks in ottd behave more like (car) freeways anyway, not like railways.
06:13	<Zuu>	And you need to learn the common pitfalls of SQ.
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06:13	<Zuu>	sorry (backlog)
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06:19	<dihedral>	anyway - i need to head out
06:20	<dihedral>	have a nice day
06:20	<dihedral>	all of you
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06:37	<CIA-2>	OpenTTD: truelight * r9603 /branches/noai/ (8 files in 5 dirs):
06:37	<CIA-2>	OpenTTD: [NoAI] -Add: added AIList(), a simple list in which you can add item/value pairs. You can sort them, walk them, and valuate them
06:37	<CIA-2>	OpenTTD: -Add: added regression for AIList()
06:37	<CIA-2>	OpenTTD: -Note: valuator is untested (and unfinished)
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06:43	<ajmiles>	hey, wonder if someone could give me a quick hand in understand something in the way openttd works
06:44	<ajmiles>	*understanding
06:44	<ajmiles>	i'm trying to work out the average speed a vehicle attains between two stations, i can calculate this in terms of "tiles travelled per day", how do I begin to convert this into sane units like the user's choice of mph / km/h / m/s
06:46	<ajmiles>	it seems that a vehicle's speed is measured in some abitrary unit that equals 0.5km/h
06:48	<peter1138>	depends on the vehicle
06:48	<ajmiles>	for now i'm just worrying about road vehicles, but yes, they do have different multipliers
06:49	<ajmiles>	SetDParam(1, v->cur_speed * 10 / 32); - is one line that caught my eye in the road vehicle viewwindow code
06:49	<Eddi\|zuHause2>	in the nightlies, that sould be cleaned up
06:49	<ajmiles>	i checked out the svn source a couple of hours ago
06:49	<peter1138>	well, there is the issue of tile scale, heh
06:50	<ajmiles>	10 and 32 appear to be the magic numbers for all vehicles, but i don't know what they do
06:50	<ajmiles>	actually, trains seem to be * 10 / 16
06:50	<ajmiles>	as do planes
06:51	<Eddi\|zuHause2>	10/16 = 1/1.6 could be a km/h -> mph factor
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06:51	<ajmiles>	thats true
06:53	<ajmiles>	curious, this plane has a v->cur_speed of 477, but the gui shows 479
06:55	<Eddi\|zuHause2>	i did not particularly follow this, but there was some back and forth with "convert to mph in GUI code"
06:56	<Eddi\|zuHause2>	you could check the SVN log for that
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06:57	<peter1138>	heh, the game units are "fun"
06:57	<ajmiles>	tortoisesvn appears to not show any logs back beyond march 21
06:57	<Eddi\|zuHause2>	you can change that date
06:58	<ajmiles>	the days before that aren't available
06:58	<ajmiles>	ah perhaps it was showing 100, just a sec
06:58	<ajmiles>	it's downloading something fairly hefty, we'll see what we get
07:00	<ajmiles>	there are some other really hacky ways i could work out the average speed, but i'd rather not resort to it
07:00	<peter1138>	is the game speed unit relevant?
07:00	<ajmiles>	(like, adding the current speed to a counter every tick, then dividing by the number of ticks between station visits, but that just makes me cry)
07:00	<peter1138>	you just want distance and time...
07:00	<ajmiles>	well i have that
07:00	<ajmiles>	this bus is doing 12 tiles in 10 days
07:01	<ajmiles>	but that does really mean anything until you have it in mph or km/h
07:01	<ajmiles>	*doesn't
07:03	<ajmiles>	peter1138, looks like you or celestar made some speed related changes on the 2nd march
07:03	<ajmiles>	"-Feature/Codechange: Changed the internal unit for aircraft velocities to from 8mph to 1km/h (peter1138), also give aircraft realsitic velocities (so that 1km/h is 1km/h independent of vehicle type) (peter1138)"
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07:07	<peter1138>	and?
07:07	<ajmiles>	it's all just a little tricky to understand what's going on here
07:09	<Ailure>	[13:09][13:09] <boekabart_> The rail networks in ottd behave more like (car) freeways anyway, not like railways.
07:09	<Ailure>	heh
07:09	<Ailure>	first thingh I thought on when i jumped from TT to TTD
07:09	<Ailure>	"Hey thoose railway networks looks like highways"
07:09	<boekabart_>	long time ago, how was TT different?
07:10	<Ailure>	well
07:10	<Ailure>	when it comes to networking
07:10	<Ailure>	there's only one type of signal
07:10	<boekabart_>	there was only the 2-way? not the 1 way
07:11	<Ailure>	yeah
07:11	<boekabart_>	right, then you don't get the cloverleafs and so.
07:11	<Ailure>	otherwise it's kinda similar in alot of ways
07:11	<Eddi\|zuHause2>	oh yeah, i remember how i made one-way tracks in TTO ;)
07:11	<Ailure>	but that made a major diffrence for that
07:11	<Ailure>	eh
07:11	<Ailure>	for me at least
07:11	<Ailure>	it was like amazing that I finally could make somewhat sane railway networks :p
07:11	<boekabart_>	Eddi\|zuHause2: how?
07:11	<peter1138>	heh
07:11	<CIA-2>	OpenTTD: truelight * r9604 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_list.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix: set default sort order to value-descending for AIList(), as that most likely will be the most used
07:12	<Ailure>	I should try digging up one of my oldest TT games
07:12	<Eddi\|zuHause2>	well, you just have to "convince" the trains [pathfinder] that the other way is longer ;)
07:12	<Ailure>	I probably have rather atricious railway networks though
07:12	<boekabart_>	what does atricious mean?
07:13	<Eddi\|zuHause2>	that, or use a station that is on one track, and not the other track, as "waypoint"
07:13	<Ailure>	tons of 90 degree turns
07:13	<Ailure>	and stuff
07:13	<Ailure>	yeah when I think on it
07:13	<Ailure>	it's possible to fake one-way logic in TTO
07:13	<Ailure>	it just requires more work
07:13	<Eddi\|zuHause2>	depots totally screw things up, so i switched breakdowns off
07:14	<Eddi\|zuHause2>	and occasionally you have trains reversing, that's also "suboptimal"
07:14	<Ailure>	I also remember some fun things people did
07:14	<Maedhros>	boekabart_: really terrible
07:14	<Ailure>	oh god you can't order trains to depots
07:14	<Ailure>	so you have to do forced servicing D:
07:14	<boekabart_>	dictionary.com: No results found for atricious.
07:15	<ajmiles>	atrocious
07:15	<boekabart_>	atrocious: shockingly bad or tasteless; dreadful; abominable
07:15	<boekabart_>	got it :)
07:16	<Ailure>	and then there's the darned vehicle limit
07:16	<ajmiles>	and station limit
07:16	<Ailure>	yeah
07:16	<Ailure>	I remember getting oil rigs
07:16	<ajmiles>	and overflow of money
07:16	<Ailure>	without a station
07:16	<Ailure>	since there were too many stations on the whole map
07:17	<Eddi\|zuHause2>	yeah, i remember that, too
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07:17	<Eddi\|zuHause2>	and max. 4x5 stations
07:17	<ajmiles>	did it not have 7 length?
07:17	<Eddi\|zuHause2>	no.
07:18	<Ailure>	yeah
07:18	<Eddi\|zuHause2>	7x7 was a TTDP addition
07:18	<Ailure>	max train length was 10 cars+engine
07:18	<Ailure>	and stations had to be a perfect square
07:18	<Ailure>	train stations at least
07:18	<Ailure>	which is something that would be hard to go back to
07:18	<Eddi\|zuHause2>	s/square/rectangle
07:18	<ajmiles>	theres a lot in openttd you take for granted that you assume has always been there
07:19	<Ailure>	and I like irregular shapes now
07:19	<Zuu>	Don't forget about autorails :)
07:19	<CIA-2>	OpenTTD: truelight * r9605 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_list.cpp: [NoAI] -Fix: RemoveXXXValue and KeepXXXValue could cause infinite loops
07:19	<Ailure>	<_<
07:19	<Ailure>	I don't use autorails
07:19	<Ailure>	wel
07:19	<Ailure>	only for diagonal rails
07:19	<Ailure>	only becuse you can't drag diagonal rails
07:19	<ajmiles>	could do with an autoroad tool
07:19	<boekabart_>	autorails as in pull a stretch of rails??
07:19	<boekabart_>	how do you not use it? too much time? :)
07:19	<Zuu>	boekabart_: a-key
07:19	<Ailure>	I'm too twitchy
07:20	<Ailure>	besides I use hotkeys to switch directions
07:20	<Ammler>	Heya, is it possible to export the settings (GRF etc) from a save for a new game?
07:20	<Eddi\|zuHause2>	Ammler: probably not
07:21	<Zuu>	Not yet, I would say :)
07:21	<Ammler>	ok, thx :)
07:21	<boekabart_>	i have to get used to real. accell still, being able to make 45 deg turns and 'lane changes' for free
07:22	<Ailure>	I love the new acceleration model :P
07:22	<Ailure>	even if it's still a bit inaccurate
07:22	<Ailure>	new and ne
07:22	<Ailure>	it's been around for awhile
07:22	<Ailure>	the old one was like
07:22	<Ailure>	even really powerful trains
07:22	<Ailure>	would slow down to 30 km/h on slope
07:22	<Ailure>	which was quite annoying¨
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07:23	<boekabart_>	it's essential, it now handles a 'sharp looking' 45 deg turn as a nice curve
07:23	<boekabart_>	since you cannot make those :)
07:23	<Ailure>	Now I only see that happen if it's a heavy train which dosen't have enough horsepowe to maintain full speed
07:23	<Ailure>	I usually disallow 90 degree turns too
07:23	<Ailure>	they're ugly anyway
07:23	<boekabart_>	i'm thinking about making a patch that renders rails differently when in non-edit mode ;)
07:23	<Ailure>	heh
07:24	<Ailure>	I wish there was a diffrence between electrical and regular rail
07:24	<Ailure>	I only put electrical railway where I use it, but still.
07:24	<boekabart_>	didn't use them yet
07:24	<boekabart_>	when needed? to build el. trains?
07:24	<Ailure>	right now they cost as much and is pretty much identical, apart that electrical trains can't run on non-electrified tracks of course
07:25	<boekabart_>	anyway i think construction cost is too low, isn't it
07:25	<Ailure>	I can imagine the construction cost of electrified railway should be double
07:25	<boekabart_>	at least at the scale normally used (towns close together)
07:25	<Ailure>	eh
07:25	<Ailure>	it's too low even at large scale projects
07:26	<Ailure>	or maybe it's just that you earn too much easily
07:26	<ajmiles>	a train travelling the distance of the map can easily make construction costs back in one train load
07:26	<Ailure>	yeah
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07:26	<boekabart_>	i made a 2048x2048 scenario of the Netherlands, where 1 tile would be about 150 meters
07:26	<Ailure>	It's kind of unrealistic
07:26	<Ailure>	I mean
07:26	<Ailure>	I see trains that pays back their... own train value
07:27	<boekabart_>	then a rail starts to get more expensive than a train
07:27	<Ailure>	on their first run
07:27	<boekabart_>	weird
07:27	<Ailure>	imagine if that happened in reality
07:27	<Ailure>	train companies would be really rich
07:27	<ajmiles>	i would run a train company
07:27	<ajmiles>	the bank would give me a loan for the train and i'd be sorted
07:27	<ajmiles>	free money
07:27	<Ailure>	yeah
07:27	<Ailure>	Newbies are afraid to take loans
07:28	<Ailure>	as they're used to the fact that loans tend to be mean in other games
07:28	<Ailure>	but not in TTD D:
07:28	<Ailure>	even at highest intrest, it's still quite low
07:28	<Zuu>	In the early years you'll just loan more and more when the maximum loan increses. :)
07:28	<Zuu>	Free money :)
07:28	<Ailure>	heh
07:29	<Zuu>	Almost..
07:29	<Ailure>	it dosen't increase when inflation is off though
07:29	<Zuu>	Okay
07:29	<Ailure>	I turn inflation off though
07:29	<Ailure>	it seems to be broken in a few ways
07:29	<Ailure>	also it's easier to compare profits
07:29	<Ailure>	from now to ten years ago
07:29	<Ailure>	when there's no inflation involved
07:30	<Ailure>	on the other hand
07:31	<Ailure>	inflation makes it more important on how much you earn
07:31	<Ailure>	and not how much money you have
07:31	<Ailure>	Hell in economy
07:31	<Ailure>	Company economics I had
07:31	<Ailure>	I was told that money that is just sitting
07:31	<Ailure>	is wasted money
07:31	<Ailure>	if it's no invested in anything
07:32	<Zuu>	I've taken 6 bolonga-points economy and 6 bolonga-points logistics at uni. :)
07:32	<Ailure>	Ah
07:32	<Ailure>	to be honest it was a rather basic course though
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07:32	<Ailure>	l
07:33	<Ailure>	heh
07:33	<Zuu>	But we have not coverd inflation in any deapth. :)
07:33	<Ailure>	really?
07:33	<Ailure>	We did kinda
07:33	<Ailure>	sadly most of the example was like
07:33	<Ailure>	seconday industries companies
07:33	<Zuu>	I've also been told that if you don't do anything with your 'saved' money you havn't earned anything.
07:34	<Ailure>	input raw-material output goods companies
07:34	<Ailure>	which was kinda a shame, as most of the people who went there were IT people ;)
07:34	<Ailure>	Well
07:34	<Ailure>	depositing it into a bank so you earn intrest
07:34	<Ailure>	is considered a investment though
07:34	<Zuu>	Did you do DuPont?
07:35	<Ailure>	hmm
07:35	<Ailure>	I don't really recall if I did
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07:35	<Ailure>	I might have, but just used a diffrent term for it
07:35	<CIA-2>	OpenTTD: truelight * r9606 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (ai_town.cpp ai_town.hpp): [NoAI] -Fix: make GetXXX in AITown static, so we can use it without AITown instance
07:35	<Ailure>	I think I did
07:36	<Ailure>	becuse it's in my backhead
07:36	<Zuu>	A magic scheme where you can put your costs and incomes on varoious places and show that you have incresed the performance for the company and therefor should get paid more. :)
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07:38	<Ailure>	ah
07:38	<Ailure>	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Gdp-and-labour-force-by-sector.png
07:38	<Ailure>	intresting
07:38	<Ailure>	still weird that it was production industry biased
07:38	<Ailure>	when service industry is the most common apparently in western countries
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07:40	<Ailure>	also shows how statistics can differ alot
07:40	<Ailure>	depending on what you look on
07:40	<Ailure>	as one map look on the GDP, other labor force
07:40	<hylje>	:o
07:41	<CIA-2>	OpenTTD: truelight * r9607 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ (ai_transactionmode.hpp squirrel_export.awk): [NoAI] -Fix: instances should be 'x', not 'p' in SQ param list
07:42	<Ailure>	Taht the devoloped countries are mostly blue shouldn't be a surprise :p
07:42	<Brianetta>	openttd: /home/ottdcoop/svn-sandbox/src/vehicle.cpp:2911: void Vehicle::LeaveStation(): Assertion `IsTileType(tile, MP_STATION) \|\| type == VEH_SHIP' failed.
07:42	<Brianetta>	Server has exited
07:43	<Ailure>	I gotten that error before
07:43	<scia>	Server has excited
07:43	<CIA-2>	OpenTTD: truelight * r9608 /branches/noai/src/ai/api/ai_list.hpp: [NoAI] -Fix r9607: forgot to commit one file
07:43	<hylje>	scia: :o
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07:43	<Ailure>	thing is
07:44	<hylje>	Brianetta: think it's fixed lately
07:44	<Ailure>	I'm not sure what happened when I last saw it xD
07:44	<Brianetta>	I'll tell the coopers to update
07:44	<Ailure>	oh
07:44	<hylje>	Brianetta: it happens when you flip a too-long train around in a station
07:44	<Ailure>	oh
07:44	<Ailure>	that explains it
07:45	<Ailure>	I had seen it in a big multiplayer game with long trains
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07:46	<ajmiles>	there was a bug i had in a nightly from about a week ago with refitting planes while they were carrying another cargo, hadn't seen anything in the changelogs about a fix
07:47	<ajmiles>	was going to try and repro it first
07:47	<Ailure>	oh yeah
07:47	<Ailure>	remember the airport removal bug?
07:48	<Ailure>	I think it still happens with helicopters
07:48	<Ailure>	or it dosen't
07:48	<Ailure>	disregard that hah
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07:58	<ajmiles>	mmm, v->cur_speed returns the vehicle's last speed even if it has stopped
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