| --- | Log | opened Wed Nov 21 00:00:23 2007 |
| --- | Day | changed Wed Nov 21 2007 |
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| 03:01 | <lwizardl> | hi any devs have a kworld atsc 110 card? |
| 03:03 | <foxbuntu> | lwizardl, what are you looking for? |
| 03:03 | <lwizardl> | foxbuntu, I have asked in the -users channel for help with the card and get no responses so I was wondering if any of the devs have the card and maybe got it to work |
| 03:05 | <foxbuntu> | lwizardl, this is devel only...no support here...however #ubuntu-mythtv will offer support, you can also post in the forums here: http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=301 or you can wait for someone in #mythtv-users |
| 03:05 | <lwizardl> | foxbuntu, thanks |
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| 03:38 | <justinh> | I've just thought of something. why in hell's name does an unoffical plugin need official support in mythtv's menus? |
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| 04:11 | <stuarta> | justinh: that's a damn good question. |
| 04:11 | <stuarta> | i'd say support no, facilitate yes |
| 05:12 | <justinh> | I committed the change but only because mythfm & mythrecipe are referred to in the core themes |
| 05:13 | <justinh> | maybe it'd be worthwhile somebody seeing what it'd take to make mythstream more er.. official |
| 05:15 | <justinh> | oh bugger. just saw paulh's comment |
| 05:15 | <laga> | on what? |
| 05:15 | <justinh> | bah. I'll reverse the change then |
| 05:15 | <justinh> | laga: #4199 |
| 05:17 | <justinh> | aha! there's a typo in the original commit |
| 05:17 | <justinh> | <buttion> |
| 05:18 | <justinh> | hmm. is there a good reason why some translations are in the xml files? |
| 05:19 | <laga> | because they can't be done with qt? |
| 05:20 | <justinh> | the international characters bugger up my editor. down with nano, then |
| 05:22 | <gbee> | justinh: no idea if it's still necessary for the menu translations to be in the XML, it's not necessary elsewhere and would be trivial to change |
| 05:24 | <justinh> | there was talk again about renaming video sources the other day. would there be any serious objections to that? just something that keeps niggling away |
| 05:26 | <gbee> | best ask on the dev list, no objections from me |
| 05:27 | <justinh> | I know it'll possibly mess up some translations but IMHO it's easily one of the most confusing things for unseasoned users to grasp |
| 05:27 | <laga> | yup |
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| 05:29 | <gbee> | I'm all for improving usability and clarity, it's the issue that most interests me lately |
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| 05:34 | <gbee> | Crucial are offering 10% off for the next two days, just wish that prices for a gig weren't still so high otherwise it would be a good offer |
| 05:35 | <justinh> | for completeness do you reckon changing the database names too? vidsrc to epgsrc, videosource to epgsource (or whatever) |
| 05:35 | <justinh> | gbee: I got 1GB DDR2 so-dimm PC533 or something for £17 from Aria.co.uk the other day |
| 05:36 | <gbee> | justinh: I wouldn't, since it breaks the ability to downgrade and 99% of users are never going to look at the DB |
| 05:37 | <gbee> | when we move to the embedded DB , maybe that would be a good time - there are several columns and a couple of tables which need renaming since they no longer reflect their purpose |
| 05:37 | <justinh> | well I tossed it in there for the sake of completeness anyway |
| 05:39 | <justinh> | if I don't have my mobile CPU by the weekend I'll use some free time to update my spare (dev) machine & work out a patch. should be easy peasy. I should pick up my other grand plans too |
| 05:40 | <gbee> | justinh: ~£20 isn't bad, I'm stuck in a pattern of buying direct from Crucial, guess I need to start looking around |
| 05:40 | <justinh> | that was for Kingston mind you :) |
| 05:40 | <justinh> | paypal reckon my payment won't clear til the 23rd. I might be able to work out the new FE by xmas at this rate :( |
| 05:41 | <gbee> | :( |
| 05:41 | <justinh> | what I find most annoying is that I've now got more than enough cash in my paypal account to cover it and I can't cancel the original transaction |
| 05:41 | <gbee> | Kingston's ok - all my SD cards are kingston, reliable but dirt cheap |
| 05:42 | <justinh> | reckon I'm on the brink of facking orf paypal & fleabay. I can fully see why people hate them both |
| 05:43 | <gbee> | I've lost all faith in ebay, but so far I've not had any problems with paypal |
| 05:44 | <gbee> | btw, what res are you outputting to the TV? |
| 05:44 | <justinh> | had hassle from that Italian bloke again. He's paid for the item.. where is it already?! Like paying less than £20 postage gets you next day delivery in Europe |
| 05:44 | <justinh> | 720x576Noscale |
| 05:45 | <gbee> | thanks, that's what I'm doing but because it's not true widescreen my theme doesn't work so well, thinking of trying 1024x768 |
| 05:46 | <justinh> | there are a couple of places glass-wide doesn't 'fit' right because of it but I'll live with it |
| 05:47 | <justinh> | only the odd bit of text flowing past a marker by a few pixels, not the end of the world |
| 05:48 | <justinh> | btw I'd expected a bit more of a discussion about theme versioning on the -dev list the other day after paulh piped up about the commit I missed last year |
| 05:48 | <gbee> | mostly I can live with it as well, but if 1024x576 doesn't have a negative impact on video quality then I'm going to stick with it |
| 05:49 | <gbee> | justinh: I typed a reply, then threw it away since the versioning I have in mind is completely different to what paul suggested |
| 05:49 | <gbee> | Paul's idea would probably be too fiddly to work, per-window versioning etc |
| 05:49 | <justinh> | if I remember rightly, I think the conclusion was originally that myth could be made to look for a container in the default, if a missing element causes a container to break |
| 05:50 | <justinh> | or was that just proposed for window elements - I can't remember exactly |
| 05:50 | <gbee> | that's not a bad idea, but on the other hand I'd rather my theme broke |
| 05:51 | <gbee> | if a theme is judged by a newbie on it's appearance throughout, then the last thing I want is a silent fallback to mean that certain screens resemble the defaults! |
| 05:51 | <justinh> | I'm starting to think that there needs to be a lot more discussion about what we're expecting the UI engine to do in future. is it worth the hassle to make everything completely turn-upside-down-able in terms of layout, etc |
| 05:54 | <gbee> | justinh: I think it's worth it because it brings the possibility that someone will hit upon the perfect UI design when theming, we aren't there already and I'm pretty sure that themers have the best chance of achieving it |
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| 05:55 | <justinh> | sure. I wouldn't mind the ability to rejig the EPG pages a lot. I'd much prefer to cut the grid down to just the essentials (like show title) & let the description area do the talking |
| 05:57 | <stuarta> | like every STB does |
| 05:58 | <gbee> | justinh: that can be done through the EPG settings, but I agree it would be nice to constrain the users choices in the theme itself |
| 05:58 | <justinh> | can it?! hahahaha I'd not be surprised |
| 05:58 | <gbee> | http://miffteevee.co.uk/themes/metallurgy/metallurgy62.png |
| 05:59 | <gbee> | err, haven't disabled the genre text in that one - doh |
| 05:59 | <justinh> | shows you how much I use the EPG |
| 05:59 | <gbee> | actually, that screenshot is pretty old |
| 06:00 | <justinh> | wouldn't mind so much if the categories were more accurate ;) |
| 06:01 | <justinh> | ahh! you can also disable the genre colours |
| 06:01 | <justinh> | always hated them |
| 06:02 | <justinh> | oh MUCH better :) |
| 06:03 | <justinh> | and how long have I been using mythtv? oh only like 3 years now |
| 06:03 | <stuarta> | i quite like genre colors |
| 06:03 | <stuarta> | colours even |
| 06:04 | <gbee> | http://miffteevee.co.uk/themes/metallurgy/metallurgy62.png |
| 06:05 | <gbee> | I can live without the genre text so long as I have the colours, helps you pick out the films etc from the grid |
| 06:05 | <stuarta> | same |
| 06:06 | <stuarta> | although i tend to use the Films search to find them |
| 06:06 | <justinh> | I think I might have to hack glass-wide to make the grid more pretty |
| 06:07 | <gbee> | it's depressing that my OSD is starting to look better than the rest of the theme |
| 06:08 | <justinh> | what depresses me is the fact the OSD menu isn't themeable |
| 06:08 | <gbee> | http://miffteevee.co.uk/themes/metallurgy.html#OSD |
| 06:08 | <justinh> | oh and the qt stuff |
| 06:08 | <gbee> | justinh: aye, at least not with images and there is a limit to what you can do with margin, spacing and gradients |
| 06:09 | <justinh> | also the fact you can't have a user defined menu to cut down on the options you never use |
| 06:10 | <justinh> | though last time I dragged that subject up somebody said they were willing to fiddle with that |
| 06:11 | <justinh> | .. which brings me nicely to a niggle with some recordings from Five having the scan type incorrectly detected in 'auto' mode |
| 06:12 | <justinh> | maybe doesn't afflict versions newer than I've got though. on my list |
| 06:12 | <gbee> | http://miffteevee.co.uk/themes/metallurgy/metallurgy_osd4.png << probably won't make the cut |
| 06:12 | <justinh> | gbee: really love those OSD shots. see what you mean ;) |
| 06:14 | <justinh> | well, when I'm finally able to play SDTV without xvmc I'll start using my own OSD theme with all its transparency niceness |
| 06:15 | <laga> | justinh: btw, i was on the phone with the burosch people today. they''ll let us use virtually everything, eg their test cards and their freely available DVD images \o/ |
| 06:15 | <justinh> | burosch ? |
| 06:15 | <laga> | justinh: a german company which makes test cards and other related stuff |
| 06:16 | <justinh> | hucking fell! they'll come in handy at work & will mean I no longer have to make my own discs at home in my own time, unpaid |
| 06:17 | <laga> | heh |
| 06:17 | <laga> | for work, you could consider shelling out 20€ for their "dvd discovery". it's in english, AFAIK |
| 06:18 | <justinh> | 20 Euro?! NEVER! |
| 06:18 | <laga> | well, make work pay for it. ;) |
| 06:18 | <justinh> | they got rid of our electronic ordering system. now we have to use paper requisition forms & talk to a troll in purchasing |
| 06:19 | <laga> | awesome |
| 06:19 | <justinh> | it's funny cos the electronic system used to spit out spreadsheets they'd then print out & fax to the supplier |
| 06:21 | <justinh> | bah they don't have any a/v sync test signals |
| 06:21 | <laga> | call them and ask for it ;) |
| 06:22 | <justinh> | even so, their pro DVD at 685 EUR is cheaper than what I'd invoice the company for :D |
| 06:24 | <justinh> | laga: ack? |
| 06:25 | <laga> | acknowledgement? :) |
| 06:25 | <justinh> | ah |
| 06:26 | [~] | justinh wonders when those nice new LCD monitors are going to arrive. can't be expected to test a cctv DVR with HDMI output without em |
| 06:29 | <justinh> | goes to show how plugged in users of glass-wide have been. horizline.png was missing |
| 07:08 | [~] | justinh chuckles at http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/11/21/hmarc_ebay_auction/ |
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| 07:46 | <justinh> | gbee, stuarta - seen this? http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/digitaltv/a80315/ofcom-makes-proposals-for-hd-on-freeview.html :-O |
| 07:47 | <gbee> | justinh: not that announcement, but I read a leak about it two/three weeks ago |
| 07:47 | <gbee> | there was a pretty unfavourable analysis of it online |
| 07:47 | <justinh> | they can sod off if they think they'll get away with crunching all the channels to fit on one less mux |
| 07:48 | <justinh> | get off our telly you bastards! |
| 07:48 | <gbee> | it will mean reducing quality on existing muxes |
| 07:48 | <justinh> | course it will :( |
| 07:49 | <gbee> | the government just want the cash from the spectrum sell off :( |
| 07:49 | <justinh> | well they can all go to hell. I'll just stop watching telly. END OF STORY |
| 07:49 | <stuarta> | there was a bit in this mornings paper saying the broadcasters had agreed that they want dvb-t HD |
| 07:50 | <stuarta> | but oftcom is still heading for an auction |
| 07:50 | <justinh> | and we all know what a screaming success the 3G spectrum selloff was |
| 07:50 | <stuarta> | bastards! dvb-t2 |
| 07:51 | <justinh> | it's not even a standard yet |
| 07:51 | <justinh> | as in .. ink isn't dry |
| 07:51 | <stuarta> | "but we can jam more channels in the same spectrum space" |
| 07:52 | <justinh> | "n time, more than double the capacity of DTT to enable extra television channels". We don't want no more stinking channels, you dumb fecks |
| 07:52 | <stuarta> | time to start writing letters to the culture secretary |
| 07:52 | <justinh> | time to start places horse's heads on pillows |
| 07:53 | <stuarta> | anyone need a sacrificial chicken? that might help too! |
| 07:56 | <justinh> | wtf does the culture sec. know, other than what her 'advisers' tell her? still is Tosser Jowell innit? |
| 07:57 | <stuarta> | you have the following options: |
| 07:58 | <stuarta> | 1. The right way. Govt gets 0. |
| 07:58 | <stuarta> | 2. The auction. Govt gets $$$$$$ |
| 07:58 | [~] | stuarta wonders which option they'll pick |
| 07:59 | [~] | justinh wonders how many companies will bid stupid money after the 3G fiasco |
| 07:59 | <stuarta> | not as many as 3G methinks |
| 08:00 | <justinh> | nor as much, by a long chalk. I hope it falls flat |
| 08:00 | <stuarta> | the spectrum has been passed in at auction, so we'll now do it the right way |
| 08:00 | <stuarta> | methinks a snowball has more chance in hell |
| 08:01 | <justinh> | well like I said there's always the 'abstain from broadcast TV for good' option |
| 08:01 | <stuarta> | i already do. well i still need them to broadcast it so myth can do it's thing |
| 08:04 | <justinh> | I mean abstain from TV full stop |
| 08:10 | <stuarta> | at least this is good -> http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/digitaltv/a45801/bbc-itv-to-launch-freesat-in-2008.html |
| 08:11 | <justinh> | great. having to use a dish when previously an aerial was enough |
| 08:12 | <justinh> | need C4's channels to go FTA for that to be viable |
| 08:12 | <justinh> | looking at the bright side - hey at least recordings after 2009 will take up less space :P |
| 08:13 | <stuarta> | it's for those who live in a ditch or scotland |
| 08:14 | <justinh> | wonder if/when they plan to move what's left in mpeg2 to h.264 eventually then |
| 08:14 | <justinh> | think you can take it was read that they will want to |
| 08:14 | <stuarta> | of course. leaving more room for yet more channels! |
| 08:15 | <justinh> | more revenues from broadcasting licences! |
| 08:15 | <justinh> | more choice for consumers! er.. no. loads of shite channels is not a choice |
| 08:17 | <justinh> | also on the bright side of ofcom's plan - it totally kyboshes Sky's 'Picnic' thing |
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| 08:21 | <justinh> | I suppose it's nice to see a govt dept. taking onboard new tech. I mean mpeg2 was ancient when OnDigital was launched. That crashing was the ideal opportunity (as with the launch of Freeview) to move to mpeg4 |
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| 09:09 | <gbee> | justinh: talking about scaling oddities - got two OSD backgrounds here, same image, same position and when they are both on-screen at the same time they are different sizes! |
| 09:17 | <gbee> | wonder what channels they will offer through this new freesat, whether it differs from the existing freesat and would it involve encryption? |
| 09:26 | <justinh> | gbee: will all be FTA, no strings |
| 09:26 | <justinh> | not like Freesat from Sly |
| 09:27 | <justinh> | gbee: that OSD image thing - what's the difference? one pixel or so? |
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| 09:27 | <gbee> | more like 10, the height is fine, width isn't |
| 09:29 | <justinh> | eew |
| 09:29 | <gbee> | can't reproduce it now, which is strange, only happened when the OSD was rescaled for 4:3 |
| 09:40 | <justinh> | gah starting to wish I'd never brought up that subject on the -dev list now |
| 09:40 | <justinh> | everybody & their cat wanting to give their 2p worth. is there a list where only people with commit access can use? |
| 09:41 | <gbee> | aye, you should be on it |
| 09:41 | <justinh> | well, I'm not |
| 09:42 | <justinh> | not willing to have the whole 'renaming video sources' subject get as drawn out as the website revamp was. long thread, nothing ever happened |
| 09:45 | <gbee> | that's the danger of the -dev list, on the other hand, you sometimes don't get a single reply on the other lists (which I take to mean that everyone is in agreement) |
| 09:45 | <justinh> | nobody has expressed a strong negative opinion yet. I'll give it a few more days |
| 09:47 | <gbee> | think I have to do something with the "Record XYZ" and "Cancel Record XYZ" message, since the programme title can be any length it's hard to do position that information in any sort of frame |
| 09:47 | <gbee> | on the other hand, everything else which uses the settings container is pretty short and of predictable length |
| 09:49 | <gbee> | might be better to ditch the XYZ and popup the program information banner instead, that way users can still see which programme it is that they are recording |
| 09:49 | <gbee> | or even move that message to a new container |
| 09:50 | <GreyFoxx> | I agree the label "Video sources" should change |
| 09:50 | <GreyFoxx> | but I wouldn't rename db tables |
| 09:50 | <justinh> | I wouldn't want to do that anyway. I could do some real breakage bumping schema versions etc - scary |
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| 11:23 | <justinh> | heh. people entirely missing the point in that thread |
| 11:24 | <justinh> | I can kinda understand that actually. from a pure engineering perspective how would you make a connection between a listing source and a tuner input? |
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| 11:45 | <laga> | justinh: heh, that thread kept me entertainined during class :) |
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| 13:18 | <justinh> | I just did a quick grep for 'Video Sources'. gonna need to pick through very carefully when the patch is made |
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| 13:44 | <nico_> | hello |
| 13:44 | <nico_> | ah wrong channel, going to users |
| 13:45 | <nico_> | cya |
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| 13:54 | <gbee> | looks like the basedialog background gets drawn twice ... possibly even the whole container |
| 13:58 | <justinh> | better'n' never at all though eh |
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| 14:48 | <gbee> | justinh: heh, well it screws up transparency a little :) |
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| 15:04 | <justinh> | yes! I knew I had a SCART adapter I'd converted to _out_ |
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| 15:14 | <justinh> | wooo I've got a kickass way to make a mythtv demo video in future. svideo to camcorder to firewire, to Vegas :) |
| 15:15 | <justinh> | much better when the source video is DV format |
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| 15:17 | <justinh> | what?! people are against using the term 'tv guide' because it's a trademarked name? |
| 15:18 | <justinh> | isn't 'windows' a registered tm too?! |
| 15:19 | <gbee> | yeah, my house has viewing portals |
| 15:19 | <gbee> | "Programming Sources" isn't a bad suggestion |
| 15:20 | <gbee> | though not as clear as it could be |
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| 16:46 | <bradd> | has anyone successfully compiled mythtv on mac osx (intel) with leopard and fink..using configure instead of osx-packager? |
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| 17:31 | <asathoor> | hi |
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| 18:58 | <tzanger> | evening |
| 18:58 | <tzanger> | I have located a bug in the dvb tuning code |
| 18:58 | <tzanger> | when you have a switch set as "tone" it uses ExecuteTone() to set it |
| 18:59 | <tzanger> | but ExecuteTone tries ot send a DiSEqC burst instead of just setting the tone to continuously on or off |
| 19:00 | <tzanger> | I changed the code such that ExecuteTone runs m_tree.SetTone() instead of mini_diseqc() and my 4x4 is now properly switching |
| 19:01 | <janneg> | tzanger: please open a ticket at http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ |
| 19:04 | <justinh> | tell you what folks. last time I ever stick my neck above the parapet to suggest a change |
| 19:05 | <justinh> | now the discussion's been bogged down in semantics. I've lost the will to argue the case |
| 19:05 | <tzanger> | heh |
| 19:07 | <justinh> | the .org redesign thread went exactly the same way. what's so damn hard to see that they're not actually sources of _video_ ? next up, what font should the OSD use by default... |
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| 19:16 | <justinh> | well, I _was_ going to issue another reply but I really can't be arsed |
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| 19:32 | <gbee> | justinh: the difference is that you have the power to make the change, almost all those wanting to discuss it in excruciating detail don't - just make the change and if they don't like it, they can submit a patch |
| 19:34 | <justinh> | the word 'excruciating' is very key there |
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| 19:35 | <justinh> | I agree wholeheartedly with Nick about the whole wizard setup stuff, but that's not an easy change to make & will need very careful planning |
| 19:35 | <gbee> | everyone agrees that the current term doesn't fit, it would be pretty hard to chose any wording and not improve it |
| 19:36 | <gbee> | ignore those who are getting sidetracked into discussions on re-writing the settings wizards, if you focus on the bigger picture nothing will ever get done |
| 19:36 | <justinh> | so last time I 'ask the -dev list' then ;) |
| 19:37 | <gbee> | justinh: you had to find out the hard way that open source does not and can not be a democracy |
| 19:37 | <Chutt> | err |
| 19:37 | <Chutt> | no name changing without developer concensus |
| 19:37 | <gbee> | errm, stick "equal" in there somewhere |
| 19:38 | <gbee> | Chutt: agreed, but we don't need the concensus of every user subscribed to the -dev list |
| 19:38 | <justinh> | Chutt: I agree. nor would I even dream of it. but trying to get a consensus today has just made me regret I ever even brought it up |
| 19:39 | <tzanger> | http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/4202#preview |
| 19:39 | <tzanger> | look good? |
| 19:40 | <gbee> | so far one dev has replied to the topic (excluding Justin) and they are in favour |
| 19:40 | <gbee> | Chutt: justin doesn't have access to the other list |
| 19:40 | <Chutt> | <shrug> |
| 19:41 | [~] | gbee goes back to work |
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| 20:56 | <Mayber> | how do I delete all the channels and "transports" in mythtv and start over? |
| 20:59 | <madfactor> | ne1 here know anything about xebian? |
| 21:01 | <madfactor> | sorry, wrong channel |
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| --- | Log | closed Thu Nov 22 00:00:27 2007 |
