TheGrebs.com:IRC Logs:#mythtv:2007:11:08

---	Log	opened Thu Nov 08 00:00:00 2007
---	Day	changed Thu Nov 08 2007
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00:09	<BenB>	samebody here knows DVB CAs?
00:09	<BenB>	somebody
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00:10	<BenB>	is there a description how to drive it? e.g. whether the PMT is strictly necessary, and how to send it to the CA.
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00:14	<xris>	BenB: might want to check the topic before waiting around for an answer that likely won't come
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00:16	<BenB>	xris: I'm not a user, if you mean that. I am talking about the device ioctl / write interface.
00:17	<BenB>	(and yes, I have seen the code. my question is if there's a description, and whether all that complexity is necessary)
00:18	<xris>	sorry, sounded like a user-setup question (shows what I know about dvb)
00:18	<BenB>	basically: if I wanted to re-implement the DVB CA code, is there some info how to do it?
00:18	<BenB>	xris: ah, ok.
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00:22	<Romina>	hi
00:23	<Romina>	can I view worldwide TV channels using MythTV or "only" the channels I pass through to MythTV by using cableTV or sattelite?
00:23	<Romina>	I am interested in web-TV (like webradio, but TV)
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00:27	<BenB>	Romina: please go to #mythtv-users
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---	Log	closed Thu Nov 08 02:10:43 2007
---	Log	opened Thu Nov 08 02:11:35 2007
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04:07	<justinh>	superm1: think I've sorted the silly perms out & rejigged my svn repo. uploading new tarballs now
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04:09	<DaveMorris>	grrr, bot flooding me with stuff I already know!
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04:21	<Daviey>	DaveMorris: reply with some abuseive language, makes you feel beeter [FACT]
04:22	<justinh>	can't believe I've just read a wiki article that advocates adding a user job directly into the database :-\
04:23	[~]	Daviey hopes justinh modifies the wiki
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04:27	<justinh>	done
04:27	<justinh>	tried hard not to use words like 'idiot'
04:40	<Daviey>	justinh: did he even suggest backing up the db first?
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04:58	<rooaus>	justinh: Ah, I see you saw the post about mythtv stagnating, that was a very measured response. Much better than what went through my head when I read it.
05:02	<gbee>	rooaus: where was this?
05:03	<rooaus>	gbee: Just a sec...
05:05	<rooaus>	http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/mythtv/users/299502#299502
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05:06	<gbee>	rooaus: thanks
05:07	<rooaus>	np
05:07	<Daviey>	bah, that's not the sort of responses i expect from justinh
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05:22	<justinh>	when you're planning to apply for new jobs I think it's important your public presence on the internet is a mature one :)
05:23	<justinh>	plus it's best for the interests of the communitae to be nice whenever possible ain't that so?
05:24	<justinh>	ok. now that really does make it look like I've been abducted by aliens
05:25	<rooaus>	justinh: Ah, the google test. I have heard of people missing out on jobs because of that ;)
05:28	[~]	justinh dives into the ATA spec again
05:36	<justinh>	wth are our designers jabberring on about? nothing in the ata spec says it's ok to mix voltage levels on groups of signals. we have 3v3 logic on data signals & the IDE lines DA(2:0) are on 5V logic. and that's why the new sony writer doesn't work
05:39	<justinh>	technically it _should_ be ok but that's not how it is in practise. heh
05:46	<justinh>	rooaus: btw have you looked at the livetv EPG page in glass-wide? I can't remember if I've done anything with it or not
05:47	<justinh>	got my nx viewer up. checking it myself now
05:48	<rooaus>	not properly, I was using the laptop without a tuner or guide data. Was going to update the prod box tonight.
05:51	<justinh>	just put a new tarball up this morning
05:51	<justinh>	'revision 10'. pfft. hopefully now I've racked everything up in svn properly this time
05:53	\|-\|	clever changed nick to clever[rev]
05:58	<justinh>	well, it works but needs a bit of tweaking.
06:16	<clever[rev]>	justinh: you seen http://svn.mythtv.org/trac/ticket/4143 ?
06:17	<justinh>	yeah cos I avidly read every single ticket
06:18	<clever[rev]>	lol
06:18	<clever[rev]>	its mildly anoying and havent seen any replys to it yet
06:18	<justinh>	jees. it's been open for as long as a day & there _still_ haven't been any replies?
06:18	<stuarta>	morning
06:18	<clever[rev]>	lol
06:18	<justinh>	morning
06:19	<clever[rev]>	can either of you think why my bitrate for a frame grabber card would double?
06:19	<clever[rev]>	i havent made any config changes recently just a svn update
06:19	<justinh>	what's a framegrabber?
06:19	<clever[rev]>	a painfull type of tv tuner card:P
06:21	<justinh>	as I once said to an old gf.. I don't do pain
06:21	<clever[rev]>	lol
06:21	<clever[rev]>	the cpu encoders the video in real time when recording
06:21	<clever[rev]>	but for some reason its using twice the space it used to
06:23	<clever[rev]>	thought one of you might know of recent changes to the encoder
06:23	<stuarta>	ah, there was just amn ffmpeg update
06:25	<clever[rev]>	ahh
06:25	<clever[rev]>	now i have an idea on where to focus my attention:P
06:25	<stuarta>	yeah, just find which rev it was committed and rollback to the previous one to compare
06:26	<clever[rev]>	i still have a build dir from before then i beleive
06:26	<clever[rev]>	stuck it on a SD chip because a box was low on space
06:26	<clever[rev]>	but ive begun sharing the build dir's between related versions of ubuntu now
06:27	<rooaus>	clever[rev]: r14800, you said you were using r14809 last night I think.
06:27	<clever[rev]>	i just upgraded 3 of my boxes to todays svn
06:28	<clever[rev]>	it also mentions there you need a make clean
06:28	<clever[rev]>	which might be the cause of my mythtranscode problems
06:28	<Dibblah>	Isn't this more of a ... Users conversation? ;)
06:29	<clever[rev]>	i felt it was a code problem because thats all i changed
06:30	<justinh>	gah since when was having an oscilloscope that needs to boot into windows called _progress_ ?
06:30	<clever[rev]>	lol
06:30	<clever[rev]>	with some work you could use a scope as a monitor
06:31	<stuarta>	justinh: that sucks
06:31	<justinh>	I still remember when you could switch a scope on & it's just come on
06:31	<stuarta>	i've got one of those somewhere
06:31	<stuarta>	nice little bit of kit
06:31	<clever[rev]>	our scope takes several mins to warm up
06:31	<clever[rev]>	so the image it bearly readable for a while
06:34	<stuarta>	valve powered!
06:35	<clever[rev]>	lol
06:37	<justinh>	CRTs are more or less valves anyway
06:39	<justinh>	there is one advantage to having a pc-based scope. you don't need a camera to take screenshots
06:41	<clever[rev]>	our scope has a extra card in the site
06:41	<clever[rev]>	with a serial connection
06:41	<clever[rev]>	so you can dl the data from the wave form data
06:41	<justinh>	yeah out portable one does
06:41	<justinh>	s/out/our
06:42	<clever[rev]>	this was an expansion card we had added
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07:22	<justinh>	btw stuarta I had loads of prebuffering pauses / sync readjustments resulting from an E4+1 recording last night - and all without needing to upgrade minimyth to see it. the new frontend can't come soon enough
07:23	<stuarta>	hmm
07:24	<justinh>	virgin1 recordings are showing the issue too. I've fettled some recordings with ffmpeg & as with the dodgy bbc recording playback in newer versions of minimyth, the problem went away when the AD & subtitle streams were no longer there
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07:44	<justinh>	ffs. some of my work has been included in 'zenslack' - that infamous dodgy distro that features software decripplement libs. fuming...
07:46	<DaveMorris>	justinh: add an exception to your licence
07:46	<DaveMorris>	may not be used by zenslcak
07:47	<justinh>	can you do that?
07:54	<DaveMorris>	IMNAL, ask the free software foundation or someone who can advise
07:54	<DaveMorris>	but I can't see why not
07:56	<justinh>	they're not gonna be to helpful to somebody who wants to prevent distribution
08:08	<Daviey>	justinh: AIUI there's not much you can do - if it's GPL'd, then i don't think you can revoke that licence on previous work, only change the licence on new work
08:08	<Daviey>	IANAL ofcourse
08:08	<Daviey>	new/modified work
08:09	<justinh>	Daviey: I know that already
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08:10	<Daviey>	"Captin Obvious to the resuce" :)
08:10	<justinh>	all I want is stuff to be 'free as in beer' ffs. get it from or me nowt
08:11	<justinh>	can't be done, it seems
08:11	<justinh>	sick of people taking the piss
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08:11	<Daviey>	oh dear
08:13	<clever[rev]>	==8240== Invalid read of size 4
08:13	<clever[rev]>	==8240== Address 0x70907BC is 44 bytes inside a block of size 45 alloc'd
08:13	<clever[rev]>	(large part cut out for spamage reasons)
08:14	<clever[rev]>	http://www.pastebin.ca/765886
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08:15	<justinh>	found the solution :)
08:16	<Daviey>	go on.. ;)
08:16	<justinh>	one less menu item on my site
08:17	<Daviey>	justinh: "donate" :D
08:17	<justinh>	no launch on monday
08:18	<justinh>	no release, no licence problem
08:18	<Daviey>	oh justinh :(
08:20	<justinh>	it was bad enough that people were including my stuff in commercial product & me not getting a penny for it (my bad for using the wrong licence) but not being able to dictate how stuff is distributed without recourse to legal action _sucks_
08:24	<DaveMorris>	which company used it for a commercial product?
08:25	<justinh>	tvease
08:25	<justinh>	that I know of
08:26	<DaveMorris>	I'm sure there is a way to make sure it can only be distributed from your site and via pre-approved distros
08:26	<clever[rev]>	could just throw in a wget on startup to trigger a log entry in your server:P
08:27	<clever[rev]>	and have it self disable if on a preapprooved distro
08:27	[~]	DaveMorris wonders if tvease will move to mythbuntu?
08:27	<Daviey>	never heard of them before tvh
08:27	<Daviey>	tbh
08:28	<Daviey>	"Bit Torrent downloading built in." nice :/
08:29	[~]	DaveMorris wonders if it's built into mythtv?
08:31	<clever[rev]>	could simply be a plugin to control a external torrent client
08:31	<clever[rev]>	rtorrent has a rpc interface(xmlrpc i think)
08:31	<justinh>	clever[rev]: point being I wanted to retain distribution rights for lots of reasons, not least of which if they have to sail past the site they might feel impressed enough to click 'donate'. That and version control
08:31	<DaveMorris>	whats the state of plugins with mythtv gpl?
08:32	<clever[rev]>	most of my progs i made are for private services so i allmost never share the code
08:32	<DaveMorris>	yeah, you only need to share with the people who get your product
08:33	<clever[rev]>	my programs are to poll a game to check for events
08:33	<clever[rev]>	and then give it out in a realtime feed thru tcp(no polling)
08:33	<clever[rev]>	if others had the program it would just mean more polling the game has to answer causing it to perform worse
08:34	<DaveMorris>	which game?
08:34	<clever[rev]>	earth 2024(http://games.swirve.com/earth/)
08:34	<clever[rev]>	text based
08:35	<DaveMorris>	I run http://www.holy-war.com/info
08:35	<clever[rev]>	im just playing earth2025 but running services which aid in playing
08:35	<clever[rev]>	players can attack eachother in the game
08:36	<clever[rev]>	if a group of them gang up on 1 they can kill the 'country' causing you to have to restart
08:36	<clever[rev]>	my stuff can inform a irc channel(or txt msg a phone, or make mirc beep) when those events happen
08:37	<clever[rev]>	the txt msg code is just leeching off the old email code i made(custom smtp client)
08:38	<clever[rev]>	my highlight also leeches off the txt msg code(txt my phone when my name is said on irc)
08:43	<janneg>	clever[rev] and all others: please stay ontopic, this is not #mythtv-talk
08:43	<clever[rev]>	lol
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09:01	<justinh>	yeah all this idle tittle-tattle is getting in the way of the furious talk about development
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09:06	<clever[rev]>	lol yeah
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09:12	<janneg>	it cost time to read over two sides of nonsense and just because nobody speeaks about development doesn't mean everyone should speak about something different
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09:20	<fiXXXerMet>	I should have a neat conversation with my cable company to post soon.
09:22	<fiXXXerMet>	crap. I meant to join -users, again.
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12:00	<mick_work>	hi everyone - I have a question regarding licensing.
12:00	<mick_work>	I'm doing a presentation on MythTV at my local user group and as a part of that I had a custom theme made by a designer (that i want to submit upstream after the presentation)... so far so good
12:00	<DaveMorris>	mick_work: your best to ask and wait for the reply, rather than waiting for some to be here
12:01	<mick_work>	problem is that she used a stock image
12:01	<DaveMorris>	can you not create an image to replace it?
12:01	<mick_work>	it is "royalty free" and so forth - but the license is really restrictive as to what you can/can't do w/ it
12:01	<mick_work>	DaveMorris: ya, that was the thought that i had
12:02	<mick_work>	i'm actually thinking of just doing a different one
12:02	<mick_work>	my problem is that she doesn't understand why it wouldn't work
12:02	<mick_work>	since she did stuff for companies like Motorola and that worked w/o a problem
12:03	<mick_work>	i guess my question is, how do you deal w/ licenses regarding graphics when it comes to themes
12:03	<mick_work>	must it be under a creative commons license... or how does that work
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12:04	<mick_work>	must the image be GPL
12:04	<DaveMorris>	justinh does theme work and he might be helpful, but his not here atm
12:04	<DaveMorris>	not sure who else does themes here, but if you hang around someone might know and be able to answer
12:05	<mick_work>	i've always added my own graphics (released as GPL) so I'm new to cross licensing when it comes to graphics and how it applies to themes
12:05	<mick_work>	thanks DaveMorris
12:05	<mick_work>	i'll lurk for a while
12:05	<mick_work>	:)
12:11	<gbee>	the whole question of licensing is a minefield I've decided to stay clear of by only using images I've drawn or photographed myself
12:14	<mick_work>	gbee: ya - i think that that is the safest bet
12:19	<clever[rev]>	dont know who did it but the addition for conflicts in upcomming recordings it sweet
12:19	<clever[rev]>	i was thinking of a button to jump to a conflict would be usefull but the date of it is just as good:)
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12:59	<foxbuntu>	gbee, afternoon
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---	Log	closed Thu Nov 08 13:11:59 2007
---	Log	opened Thu Nov 08 13:12:06 2007
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13:42	<MrGandalf>	quite a few netsplits past couple days
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14:18	<gbee>	from the feature wishlist for mythmusic - "Support for purchasing from non-DRM music stores such as eMusic & Amazon."
14:19	<gbee>	really can't see how they expect that to work, Amazons site is barely workable on a computer screen but it would be useless on a TV
14:22	<gbee>	you could parse the html and reformat it into a more TV friendly form, but that's a lot of needless work and would break every other day
14:23	<laga_>	gbee: do you use amarok? amarok features a store for free music
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14:24	<laga_>	i'd think there's some kind of API. the store is called magnatunes IIRC
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14:26	<gbee>	laga_: can see how it might work with a proper API, but not without one
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14:29	<gbee>	I might consider using emusic through my tv, but if you didn't want to limit it to a single store then you've got to come up with a generic format that works just as well for them all
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14:55	<GreyFoxx>	hads: Any chance you are around ?
14:56	<GreyFoxx>	Or anyone else who is running recent svn and wants to test something ?
14:56	[~]	laga_ hides
14:56	<laga_>	but more because it's been some time since i svn up'd the last time
14:56	<GreyFoxx>	It appears that if I try to play an mpeg4 video that has a width other than a multiple of 16 I get a segfault in the draw_edge_mmx() libavcodec code.
14:57	<GreyFoxx>	This should have been a problem for the last couple months
14:57	<GreyFoxx>	so it doesn't have to be tooo new :)
14:58	<GreyFoxx>	Hads ran into it, and I finally sat down to track it down myself as it's been biting me a little too
15:00	<bendailey>	GreyFoxx: I am running r14809 but am not at my frontend at the moment is it something I can test via terminal or a patch I can start to compile then check when I get home?
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16:10	<mick_work>	i guess i should reask my licensing question :)
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17:02	<karlpinc>	Does the backend need schedules before you can watch live tv on the frontend? I've the backend and frontend on different boxes and although the backend knows what channels exist (from scanning) when I go to watch live tv on the frontend I get something with no channels (and no tv.)
17:05	<kormoc>	karlpinc, please read the topic and the notice you received when you joined the channel
17:06	<karlpinc>	kormoc: Whoops. Sorry. I'm not very irc clueful.
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17:10	<RichW>	I have two screens connected via dvi.. I cant get the frontend to appear on my second screen, I have tried mythfrontend -display :1 which I have no luck with but :0 appears on my first screen.
17:12	<laga_>	RichW: please read the topic and the notice you received when you joined the channel
17:12	<laga_>	kormoc: sorry for stealing that ;)
17:12	<RichW>	oh damn
17:12	<RichW>	i forgot that last time
17:12	<RichW>	i think you should swap em around so its like #mythtv-dev
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17:17	<kormoc>	laga_, heh, no worries :)
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---	Log	closed Thu Nov 08 18:29:00 2007
---	Log	opened Thu Nov 08 18:29:03 2007
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18:30	<gbee>	anyone getting segfaults at mythfrontend startup with head?
18:33	<gbee>	nevermind, missed the need for a distclean after Daniel's ListBoxSetting fix
18:34	[~]	gbee prepares to spend the next hour recompiling
18:38	<kormoc>	ccache is your friend
18:39	<gbee>	already using it, but these frontends are still pretty slow
18:39	<gbee>	I'm exaggerating when I said an hour, just feels that long ;)
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18:49	<gbee>	more like ten minutes in reality
18:50	<foxbuntu>	gbee, made some progress
18:51	<gbee>	foxbuntu: great
18:52	<foxbuntu>	gbee, working on setting up the data server...I have the zipcode DB built
18:59	<foxbuntu>	gbee, I just wanted to verfiy this..right now the look up goes by city name then when the user selects the city that finds the maps and xml feed?
19:01	<gbee>	foxbuntu: yes, the way I think all the scripts work is to assign a unique ID for a location, when you perform a search and select your location that ID is saved to the database
19:01	<gbee>	it is then used by the scripts to retrieve the correct data from the source websites
19:02	<foxbuntu>	ok...then this will work fine...I just need to create a table to save the settings into
19:03	<gbee>	in the case of the BBC grabber, this id is assigned by the BBC their weather data is accessed by changing the ID in the URL e.g. http://www.bbc.co.uk/xml/weather/ID.xml
19:03	<foxbuntu>	gbee, I was just thinking that...I can set the new server up that way as well I think
19:03	<gbee>	as you are setting up the server you have a lot of freedom to choose the best way for you
19:04	<foxbuntu>	gbee, yea..I was thinking of something like domain.com/zip/weather.xml
19:04	<foxbuntu>	that way the script only has to know the zip code to grab the data
19:05	<gbee>	foxbuntu: should work just fine
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19:05	<foxbuntu>	and the server can then provide the data dynamicly
19:06	<foxbuntu>	gbee, cool thanks..back to the grindstone
19:15	<gbee>	157 patches in my collection and it's getting hard to find the ones I want
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19:31	<djc__>	ah, that explains why the fedora repo is hammered
19:31	<djc__>	even just to get the mirrorlist
19:32	<djc__>	handy it would be to have the mirrorlist not on the same server/network as the primary server, so that when the primary server is hammered yum could retrieve said mirrorlist to find an alternate mirror which might be hammered not
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19:52	<djc__>	doxygen-architecture-document.cpp still refers to free listings from tms, in the description of mythfilldatabase. probably should reference SD now instead
19:53	<kormoc>	djc__, the mirrorlist is cached, no?
19:53	<djc__>	apparently no
19:54	<djc__>	nbd, i was trying to install lsof to check something, but have since realized it was already installed and I was just calling it at the wrong path
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22:30	<Quinn_Storm>	I hope this is an appropriate question, but I'm looking to deploy mythtv and am wondering if there is already an "easy setup" wizard for users to run when they unbox their pc / install the distro, assuming we already (somehow, magically) know what kind of tuner they have and have it set up?
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22:48	<djc__>	1. wrong channel. 2. mythdora, mythbuntu, knoppmyth
22:49	<djc__>	and its still not really 'easy'
22:49	<djc__>	not something that average drooling-windows user, let alone even the 'windows geek' would likely be able to get right
22:50	<clever[rev]>	i got it right shortly after i started using it(about 2 years after i started linux)
22:50	<djc__>	heh, that doesnt count
22:50	<clever[rev]>	i think i found it when scaning the packages for anything using v4l to try and get my webcam going
22:51	<djc__>	then you dont count as an average drooling windows users, by definition
22:51	<clever[rev]>	threw the frame grabber my uncle gave me years ago in a desktop and installed the package of 0.18 and got it 'working' easily
22:51	<clever[rev]>	yeah and im trying to move away from windows
22:52	<djc__>	theres people who can think, and theres people that cant.. while they are (unfortunately) windows users amonger the former, the vast majority of windows users fall into the latter
22:53	<djc__>	lets just say that mythtv isnt something you c