TheGrebs.com:IRC Logs:#mythtv:2007:02:01

---	Log	opened Thu Feb 01 00:00:11 2007
00:04	\|-\|	czth__ [i=dbrobins@nat/microsoft/x-b2a594141aa9e881] has joined #mythtv
00:06	\|-\|	LLyricWork [n=chatzill@d220-238-228-208.dsl.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit ["Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox 2.0.0.1/2006120418]"]
00:21	\|-\|	czth_ [i=dbrobins@nat/microsoft/x-0a88cded1ca20c4f] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
01:36	\|-\|	Eruantalon [n=hans@56345442.rev.stofanet.dk] has joined #mythtv
01:53	\|-\|	degreseven [n=bryan@c-71-227-220-4.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit ["Leaving"]
02:02	\|-\|	xris [n=xris@xris.forevermore.net] has quit ["Leaving."]
02:40	\|-\|	cattelan changed nick to cattelan_away
02:48	\|-\|	WZ__ [n=useru@S0106000c414b8569.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #mythtv
02:55	\|-\|	ambrness [n=brett@203-214-35-12.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #mythtv
03:00	\|-\|	x86 [n=x86@p3m/member/x86] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
03:34	\|-\|	Merlin83b2 [n=Merlin83@office.34sp.com] has joined #mythtv
03:35	\|-\|	ambrness [n=brett@203-214-35-12.dyn.iinet.net.au] has left #mythtv ["Leaving"]
03:37	\|-\|	Netsplit calvino.freenode.net <-> irc.freenode.net quits: jwestfall, o_cee, Caliban_, GreyFoxx, wylie, bagpuss_thecat, Merlin83b
03:39	\|-\|	Netsplit over, joins: Caliban_
03:39	\|-\|	Netsplit over, joins: GreyFoxx, wylie
03:43	\|-\|	o_cee [n=oscar@83.249.96.144] has joined #mythtv
03:44	\|-\|	bagpuss_thecat [n=bagpuss_@72.36.186.215] has joined #mythtv
03:55	\|-\|	stuarta [n=stuart@unaffiliated/stuarta] has joined #mythtv
04:51	\|-\|	gbee [n=gbee@cpc1-derb5-0-0-cust840.lei3.cable.ntl.com] has joined #mythtv
05:17	\|-\|	rikstah [n=rick@host217-43-155-122.range217-43.btcentralplus.com] has joined #mythtv
05:32	\|-\|	LLyric [n=simon@d220-238-228-208.dsl.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
05:34	\|-\|	LLyric [n=simon@d220-238-228-208.dsl.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #mythtv
05:45	\|-\|	LLyric [n=simon@d220-238-228-208.dsl.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit ["Leaving"]
05:48	\|-\|	MrGandalv [i=buechlmr@cpe-72-225-32-214.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
05:55	\|-\|	DrNickRiviera [n=riviera@so-5494-x0.essex.ac.uk] has joined #mythtv
06:01	\|-\|	MoRpHeUz [n=morphbr@200.184.118.132] has joined #mythtv
06:01	<MoRpHeUz>	CDev, GreyFoxx: ping
06:07	\|-\|	rikstah [n=rick@host217-43-155-122.range217-43.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
06:08	<MoRpHeUz>	Captain_Murdoch: ping
06:22	\|-\|	JoeBorn [n=rootmeis@222.76.229.178] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
06:29	\|-\|	MoRpHeUz [n=morphbr@200.184.118.132] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
06:29	\|-\|	MoRpHeUz [n=morphbr@200.184.118.132] has joined #mythtv
06:30	\|-\|	DrNickRiviera [n=riviera@so-5494-x0.essex.ac.uk] has quit ["Leaving."]
06:44	\|-\|	rikstah [n=rick@87.237.60.121] has joined #mythtv
06:54	<stuarta>	why is Axel calling a bleeding edge package 0.21_trunk_r12674???
06:54	<stuarta>	why is it even being made?
06:56	\|-\|	rikstah [n=rick@87.237.60.121] has quit [Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)]
07:09	<MoRpHeUz>	stuarta: just Captain_Murdoch is responsable for transcode ?
07:10	<stuarta>	erm.... think he's sort of babysitting it.
07:11	<stuarta>	dunno if anyone's really owning it these days...
07:18	<MoRpHeUz>	hhmm
07:18	<MoRpHeUz>	need someonte to talk about it in a conference ;-)
07:24	\|-\|	WZ__ [n=useru@S0106000c414b8569.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
07:25	<MoRpHeUz>	stuarta: Chutt could also talk about that, couldn't he ?
07:35	\|-\|	rikstah [n=rick@host217-43-155-122.range217-43.btcentralplus.com] has joined #mythtv
07:37	<MoRpHeUz>	everybody is sleeping yet...
07:37	<MoRpHeUz>	=)
07:44	<stuarta>	yeah, people start turning up in the next few hours...
07:44	<MoRpHeUz>	=)
08:05	<MoRpHeUz>	stuarta: do you know if I can transcode raw streams to MPEG4 using mythtranscode ? or it just transcodes mpeg -> raw streams ?
08:05	<stuarta>	it'll do mpeg2 -> mpeg4
08:06	<stuarta>	(most "raw" streams are mpeg2)
08:07	<MoRpHeUz>	ok, so the default behavior is to convert to mpeg4...ok, thanks! =)
08:07	<stuarta>	default behavious is governed by your profiles
08:10	\|-\|	c0w_ [n=c0w@staff-ns50-3.as25178.net] has joined #mythtv
08:15	<MoRpHeUz>	that's right...just saw inside the code....
08:25	\|-\|	Cardoe [n=cardoe@gentoo/developer/Cardoe] has joined #mythtv
08:26	\|-\|	CDevMobile [i=wmirc_us@132.sub-75-195-195.myvzw.com] has joined #mythtv
08:33	\|-\|	CDevMobile [i=wmirc_us@132.sub-75-195-195.myvzw.com] has quit [Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)]
08:51	\|-\|	cattelan_away changed nick to cattelan
08:54	\|-\|	CDevMobile [i=wmirc_us@158.sub-75-195-188.myvzw.com] has joined #mythtv
08:55	\|-\|	robthebob [n=rn114@82-46-18-118.cable.ubr02.bath.blueyonder.co.uk] has quit [Read error: 113 (No route to host)]
09:15	\|-\|	CDevMobile [i=wmirc_us@158.sub-75-195-188.myvzw.com] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)]
09:21	\|-\|	jgarvey [n=jgarvey@cpe-075-177-158-190.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #mythtv
09:26	\|-\|	cattelan changed nick to cattelan_away
09:30	<MoRpHeUz>	stuarta: well...every test that I did with mythtranscode (invoking it by hand) resulted in a working video but the audio was very fast (like ants voices =) ) hehe
09:40	\|-\|	Cardoe [n=cardoe@gentoo/developer/Cardoe] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
09:45	\|-\|	Cardoe [n=cardoe@gentoo/developer/Cardoe] has joined #mythtv
09:52	\|-\|	Cougar [n=cougar@lost.data.ee] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
10:05	\|-\|	jwestfall [i=jwestfal@snapper.surrealistic.net] has joined #mythtv
10:10	\|-\|	Dor [n=Dor@mspinternet.navitaire.com] has joined #mythtv
10:13	\|-\|	Cougar [n=cougar@lost.data.ee] has joined #mythtv
10:13	<Dor>	not trying to be annoying or break the dev rules, but I was curious what the likelihood of the most recent HDHomeRun changeset being pushed to .20-fixes is.
10:17	\|-\|	gnome42 [n=obi@dsl-141-138.aei.ca] has joined #mythtv
10:19	\|-\|	Dor [n=Dor@mspinternet.navitaire.com] has quit ["Leaving."]
10:19	\|-\|	Dor [n=Dor@mspinternet.navitaire.com] has joined #mythtv
11:02	\|-\|	xris [n=xris@xris.forevermore.net] has joined #mythtv
11:09	<MoRpHeUz>	Captain_Murdoch: ping....
11:09	\|-\|	Merlin83b2 changed nick to Merlin83b
11:13	<MoRpHeUz>	Chutt: ping
11:13	\|-\|	CDevMobile [i=wmirc_us@245.sub-70-195-60.myvzw.com] has joined #mythtv
11:14	<MoRpHeUz>	everybody is still sleeping....
11:15	\|-\|	CDevMobile [i=wmirc_us@245.sub-70-195-60.myvzw.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
11:16	<xris>	or working
11:17	<MoRpHeUz>	xris: yes =)
11:17	<MoRpHeUz>	xris: my work today is to talk with them hehe
11:17	<MoRpHeUz>	=P
11:17	<MoRpHeUz>	I _really_ need to talk with them hehe
11:18	<MoRpHeUz>	it's kind of urgent
11:21	<MoRpHeUz>	xris: do you have any other contact of them besides here and email ?
11:21	<xris>	nope
11:22	[~]	Merlin83b is intrigued as to what MythTV issue could be urgent.
11:24	\|-\|	WZ__ [n=useru@S0106000c414b8569.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #mythtv
11:30	\|-\|	CDevMobile [i=wmirc_us@245.sub-70-195-60.myvzw.com] has joined #mythtv
11:30	\|-\|	CDevMobile [i=wmirc_us@245.sub-70-195-60.myvzw.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
11:32	\|-\|	stuarta [n=stuart@unaffiliated/stuarta] has quit ["leaving"]
11:34	[~]	xris grumbles as he remembers that he was working on the iconmap stuff and completely forgot about it.
11:35	<MoRpHeUz>	hehe
11:43	\|-\|	Max00 [n=mythtv@host86-129-3-31.range86-129.btcentralplus.com] has joined #mythtv
11:43	\|-\|	Max00 [n=mythtv@host86-129-3-31.range86-129.btcentralplus.com] has left #mythtv ["Konversation terminated!"]
12:08	\|-\|	xris [n=xris@xris.forevermore.net] has quit ["Leaving."]
12:38	\|-\|	klingon [n=chatzill@pool-71-112-193-201.sttlwa.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #mythtv
12:47	\|-\|	klingon [n=chatzill@pool-71-112-193-201.sttlwa.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit ["Chatzilla 0.9.77 [Firefox 2.0.0.1/2006120418]"]
13:05	\|-\|	xris [n=xris@dsl081-161-160.sea1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #mythtv
13:07	\|-\|	rikstah [n=rick@host217-43-155-122.range217-43.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
13:07	\|-\|	rikstah [n=rick@host217-43-155-122.range217-43.btcentralplus.com] has joined #mythtv
13:18	\|-\|	DrNickRiviera [n=riviera@so-5494-x0.essex.ac.uk] has joined #mythtv
13:34	\|-\|	eskil_ [n=eskil@natint3.juniper.net] has joined #mythtv
13:34	\|-\|	eskil_ changed nick to eskil
14:07	\|-\|	LLyric [n=simon@d220-238-228-208.dsl.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #mythtv
14:48	<Chutt>	MoRpHeUz, stop making an annoyance of yourself.
14:49	<MoRpHeUz>	Chutt: before starting to offend me, listen what I have to say, pvt...
14:50	<Chutt>	no.
14:50	<MoRpHeUz>	<MoRpHeUz> we need someone to talk about mythtv in a conference here in Brazil
14:50	<MoRpHeUz>	<MoRpHeUz> we'll pay everything (the travel, hotel, etc...)
14:50	<MoRpHeUz>	<MoRpHeUz> I was trying to reach you all the day because this is urgent...
14:50	<Chutt>	i'm not even slightly interested.
14:52	<MoRpHeUz>	Chutt: could you please, indicate someone (I think Captain_Murdoch is the right guy) to talk about transcode, codecs, ? http://www.bossaconference.org/
14:52	<MoRpHeUz>	we'll also give an N800 for the guy
14:53	<Chutt>	no.
14:53	<MoRpHeUz>	ok, thanks.
14:57	<Dor>	since people seem to be partially awake, and at the risk of annoying the hell out of the wrong people, can I ask again about the possibility of pushing the latest HDHomeRun changeset into .20-fixes?
14:58	<Chutt>	you'd have to talk to daniel.
14:59	<Dor>	okay...is it okay to email him directly?
14:59	<Chutt>	i would assume so
14:59	<Dor>	thanks, isaac. just making sure I don't annoy people.
15:00	<Chutt>	the other guy had been msging me 'ping' all day.
15:00	<Chutt>	you're not even _close_ :p
15:01	<Dor>	good to know... thanks again :)
15:01	<xris>	MoRpHeUz: Captain_Murdoch is in the channel. if he (or any other dev) is interested, I'm sure he'd let you know. asking the same question over and over isn't generally the best way to get a response, though.
15:02	<MoRpHeUz>	xris: I didnt asked the question before...just did pings...sorry again..
15:02	<MoRpHeUz>	our culture is a little bit different
15:02	<MoRpHeUz>	here it's not an offense or any kind of annoyance...
15:02	<xris>	MoRpHeUz: developers can get testy when they come back to a terminal and there's a huge string of "pings" in a pm from someone they don't knwo.
15:03	\|-\|	Sovvy [n=Sovvy200@62-30-71-110.cable.ubr01.brom.blueyonder.co.uk] has joined #mythtv
15:03	\|-\|	Sovvy [n=Sovvy200@62-30-71-110.cable.ubr01.brom.blueyonder.co.uk] has left #mythtv []
15:05	\|-\|	Dor [n=Dor@mspinternet.navitaire.com] has left #mythtv []
15:10	<gbee>	what would it take to support the various X11 multmedia keysyms? XF86AudioRaiseVolume etc
15:10	<Chutt>	qt support
15:11	<gbee>	right
15:11	<gbee>	bugger
15:11	<Chutt>	they might be there
15:11	<Chutt>	i dunno =)
15:11	<gbee>	I'm looking now
15:12	<gbee>	just set up all the bindings for the extra buttons on my mouse, went through binding them to various actions in KDE then realised we don't yet have support in mythtv
15:17	<gbee>	ok, docs seem to suggest that they are supported, but ignored by default - I'll play around with it
15:19	<gbee>	btw, #2935 - any objections to changing pushbuttons into checkboxes?
15:20	<gbee>	in principal I agree with providing the visual feedback, makes more sense of those buttons, just a little unsure of the method used
15:22	<Chutt>	haven't looked at it
15:23	<Chutt>	lemme pull it up
15:23	<Chutt>	actually, i think i'd just like those to be indicators
15:24	<Chutt>	i dunno
15:24	<Chutt>	gbee, if you want to handle mythmusic stuff, you can decide :p
15:25	<gbee>	fair enough
15:25	<Chutt>	be nice to get eskil's stuff merged in at some point
15:30	\|-\|	s3cur17y [n=s3cur17y@cpe-65-31-49-18.woh.res.rr.com] has joined #mythtv
15:30	<s3cur17y>	Hey all...
15:31	\|-\|	s3cur17y [n=s3cur17y@cpe-65-31-49-18.woh.res.rr.com] has left #mythtv ["Leaving"]
15:39	<gbee>	there is a decent number of patches for mythmusic in trac, should bring some positive improvements
15:40	<xris>	cool
15:40	[~]	xris still wants "streaming from the backend" most, though
15:42	<gbee>	xris: that's my #1 wanted feature, followed by a UI overhaul
15:44	<xris>	I think that backend-storage of all media files, along with some better integrated transcode functionality, are probably my two biggest wants. but I have lots of small/easy ones, too. heh
15:44	<gbee>	streaming from the backend will probably be done first though - it may involve a lot of work but at least everyone knows what that means, but no-one has yet had any real ideas for a new UI
15:46	<xris>	yeah. it's hard to come up with a good UI for a music app when you need it to work properly without a mouse
15:47	<xris>	and sometimes without a keyboard.
15:48	<MoRpHeUz>	gbee: transcoding livetv would be a great feature..of course it would require a lot of cpu...I'm working on that..
15:48	<CDev>	gbee & xris: Not sure if it qualifies, but there is a getMusic http/xml method that I have used to stream music from the backend.
15:49	\|-\|	czth_ [i=dbrobins@nat/microsoft/x-54d454233a27c5b3] has joined #mythtv
15:53	<gbee>	CDev: I think upnp solution to mythmusic streaming makes a lot of sense and assuming myth is moving towards upnp for other frontend/backend communication it might be the solution
15:54	\|-\|	CharlieSu [n=charlie@pool-71-114-239-117.austtx.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #mythtv []
15:54	<gbee>	although there is more to making mythmusic a fe/be app than streaming the music
15:55	<xris>	CDev: you'd also need to support standard http streaming for m3u playlist stuff. and upnp browsing of the filesystem.
15:55	<gbee>	I'm not sure whether we'd want to itegrate the backend part of mythmusic into mythbackend, or run it as a seperate daemon
15:55	<CDev>	xris: I believe most of it's there already. There is a upnp cds that's already implemented.
15:56	<xris>	gbee: yeah. browsing, remote playlist management tools, possibly inline transcoding (for streaming to something like itunes that might not have the ogg/flac plugin, etc)
15:56	<xris>	CDev: that's cool
15:56	<CDev>	I'd have to look into the m3u support (not sure it's complete/started)
15:56	<gbee>	filesystem/playlist browsing & searching, id3 tag manipulation support etc would all need to be in the protocol
15:56	[~]	CDev is headed home... be back in a few
15:57	<xris>	CDev: just needs a filename. the m3u can be generated to request any url-root stuff like http://mythbox/musicpath/whatever.mp3
15:57	<xris>	gbee: if you put data-writing in there, then you also need security help. don't want to just expose that stuff to the world
15:58	<gbee>	aye
15:59	<gbee>	although I'm not altogether sure of what is possible with libid3tag and id3 tags in general, i.e. how much of a risk it really poses
15:59	\|-\|	degreseven [n=bryan@c-71-227-220-4.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #mythtv
16:00	<xris>	well, someone could wipe out all of your tags with a malicious script
16:01	<gbee>	yep, but they can also wipe out all your recordings too - as the thread in mailing list is discussing right now
16:01	<Chutt>	like google can wipe out your recordings :p
16:03	<MoRpHeUz>	/j #freevo
16:03	<MoRpHeUz>	ops
16:03	<MoRpHeUz>	=)
16:06	\|-\|	czth__ [i=dbrobins@nat/microsoft/x-b2a594141aa9e881] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
16:06	<gbee>	as a precaution I wouldn't mind seeing some form of password, IP or key based authentication - preventing any unathorized client from connecting to a backend
16:07	<gbee>	wouldn't have to be fancy and certainly wouldn't make mythbackend safe enough to be used on a public network
16:08	<gbee>	but might stop flatmates or kids messing with things they shouldn't ;)
16:14	\|-\|	LLyricWork [n=chatzill@d220-238-228-208.dsl.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #mythtv
16:18	\|-\|	MoRpHeUz [n=morphbr@200.184.118.132] has quit ["Leaving..."]
16:19	<xris>	gbee: but because myth is open source, it would be REALLY easy to figure out how to generate a key. heh
16:29	<janneg>	the backend could generate a random key and write it to the database. as long as the client reads its settings from the db it will work
16:30	<xris>	janneg: doesn't help the part where the client needs to get the db login/password over upnp
16:31	<janneg>	of course it's easy to circumvent. especially with our standard mysql settings. but as long as the mythtv protocol isn't encrypted it is sufficient
16:33	<gbee>	as I said, it's not going to make mythtv safe enough to use on an unsecure network, but it would provide a basic hurdle
16:34	<Chutt>	use use a short number code
16:34	<Chutt>	easy to input with the remote on the frontend at time of first connect
16:34	<gbee>	especially with autodiscovery being implemented, it makes some sense to prevent people automatically connecting to your backend on a shared network
16:35	<Chutt>	can make the master backend require it set
16:35	<Chutt>	have all slave backends need it set on the command line or something
16:35	<Chutt>	4 digit pin or whatnot
16:35	<Chutt>	not great security, but raises the bar
16:36	<Chutt>	CDev, thoughts on that?
16:36	<briand>	;
16:37	<gbee>	could even define it in a client side config file (like the DB config now)
16:37	<janneg>	setting it up with mythtv-setup would another possibility
16:37	<Chutt>	janneg, for the backends.
16:37	<janneg>	for the slave backends
16:37	<Chutt>	gbee, i would assume the frontend would save it to a config file
16:38	<Chutt>	it'd still all be transmitted in the clear, but...
16:38	<Chutt>	it'd just prevent random connects :p
16:41	<gbee>	that's all that's needed :)
16:48	\|-\|	CDevMobile [i=wmirc_us@140.sub-75-194-89.myvzw.com] has joined #mythtv
16:56	\|-\|	keng50 [n=keng50@pool-70-16-125-227.scr.east.verizon.net] has joined #mythtv
16:57	\|-\|	keng50 [n=keng50@pool-70-16-125-227.scr.east.verizon.net] has left #mythtv ["Konversation terminated!"]
17:01	\|-\|	CDevMobile [i=wmirc_us@140.sub-75-194-89.myvzw.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
17:01	\|-\|	CDevMobile [i=wmirc_us@140.sub-75-194-89.myvzw.com] has joined #mythtv
17:03	\|-\|	Cardoe [n=cardoe@gentoo/developer/Cardoe] has quit ["Leaving"]
17:04	<degreseven>	is about 10 megs a normal size for the mythconverg db?
17:06	<briand>	not for my system.
17:06	<briand>	oh, by the way, you've forgotten to read the topic.
17:07	[~]	xris wonders how much bigger his latest index additions made the db.
17:07	<briand>	xris: mine doesn't look like it grew significantly (i updated my SVN install on Saturday)
17:08	<degreseven>	oh, sorry, that was meant for mythtv-users =)
17:08	<degreseven>	how big is yours?
17:08	<briand>	getting kind of personal there, aren't ya?
17:08	<degreseven>	;)
17:08	<gbee>	xris: imho it's not worth worrying about
17:09	<briand>	the bz2 file created by my nightly full backup is 11M
17:09	<briand>	and, xris: been holding steady at that size for the past week or more
17:09	<CDevMobile>	Chutt: Just read the history...so you want a pin to be required to connect to the backend?
17:09	<CDevMobile>	Would the pin on
17:10	<degreseven>	ok...i was kind of curious because i just looked at my backups, and the first one i took was ~11M, but the most recent one was ~9. and I have significantly more stuff in there now
17:10	\|-\|	jgarvey [n=jgarvey@cpe-075-177-158-190.nc.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
17:10	<CDevMobile>	only be needed to get the db info?
17:10	<xris>	briand: must be pretty minor, then.
17:11	<xris>	gbee: yes. esp. since half of those indexes don't do anything other than shut up the "query without an index" logs... half of those tables only had like 10 rows (e.g. storagegroups)
17:11	<briand>	xris: well, obviously the backup isn't saving the created index, only the line in the create table command ... so the SQL file wouldn't grow by much
17:11	<xris>	CDevMobile: I keep trying to respond to your message to the developers list, but apparently comcast is having issues and the line to my mail server at home keeps dropping
17:12	<briand>	xris: what brand/model cablemodem do you have?
17:12	<xris>	briand: it's an smc gateway.. they only use one model for their business accounts (it's a "managed service" -- they won't even give me remote-reboot access to my own modem)
17:12	<briand>	ah. okay.
17:13	\|-\|	Anduin [n=awithers@adsl-69-110-29-34.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #mythtv
17:13	<briand>	i only wondered because I finally (I think/hope!!) figured out my problem with my comcast connection here...
17:13	<CDevMobile>	xris: was it something you want to discuss here or wait until you can send from homw?
17:13	<xris>	ah. yeah, I just called. their business support is decent most of the time. guy did a ping test and said something was wrong with the line, and was sending out a tech tonight.
17:14	<briand>	turns out, there's an exploit on my surfboard -- if they issue one simple command from the LAN or WAN side, it'll put the modem 'offline' while indicating it is still 'online'
17:14	<xris>	CDevMobile: if I can't get to the mail server from here, there's no way the mail server would be able to send anything out.
17:14	<briand>	replaced the modem with a newer (and more secure) cablemodem, and the problem hasn't recurred.
17:15	<briand>	reference: "Motorola SB4100" and "DoS"... search google, you'll see it.
17:15	<xris>	CDevMobile: unfortunately, I don't know of any way to properly secure things like the db login info.. short of using some kind of public key encryption.. but even then, you still have to trust the client on the other end, and since mythtv is open source, it would never be able to be secured like that.
17:16	<xris>	briand: ick. this is an smc8013wg -- four lan ports, proxyarp, static and multi-ip support, etc.
17:16	<CDevMobile>	agreeded.
17:16	<Chutt>	CDevMobile, i was thinking just the db info.
17:16	<Chutt>	CDevMobile, but since that would be the first thing asked for almost... =)
17:17	<briand>	xris: nice. :) well, admittedly, it was time to upgrade from a DOCSIS 1.1 modem to something from the current millenium anyway. :)
17:17	<xris>	"best" (and it certainly isn't) solution I can think of would be to designate a master frontend, and have each host negotiate a key/has the first time it talks to the backend. master frontend (or mythweb) could be used to authorize new hosts.
17:17	<Chutt>	naw
17:18	<briand>	or use ssh tunnelling. ;)
17:18	<Chutt>	frontends aren't going to be on all the time
17:18	<Chutt>	the backend is.
17:19	<xris>	Chutt: well, "any authorized frontend" then. would be easy to whip up a commandline tool to do it, too.
17:19	<CDevMobile>	Chutt: so, after discovering the master backend IP. call a request connection info method with a pin as a parameter.
17:19	<xris>	but that's the only thing I can think of that would handle the security issue.
17:20	<Chutt>	just let the backend do it, no need to involve a frontend
17:20	<xris>	Chutt: backend doesn't have an interactive ui.
17:20	<Chutt>	sure it does
17:20	<Chutt>	setup :p
17:20	<xris>	CDevMobile: actually, that would be better. set a pin in mythtv-setup,.
17:20	<xris>	Chutt: you win. :)
17:20	[~]	CDevMobile has too big of thumbs for this phone's keyboard
17:21	<briand>	why not set up a FE->BE "dialog" in the protocol, and they can negotiate there to establish the connection. BE can house MD5 encrypted key in the DB, and the FE can house it locally in a file.
17:21	<xris>	ok.. so yeah. put a pin/key into mythtv-setup, and enter the same key into the frontend when it detects the backend. then could just store the key locally for future connects.
17:22	<xris>	still weak against brute force, but it would be pretty easy to add something like a tarpit rule for failed attempts.
17:22	<Chutt>	yup
17:22	<Chutt>	briand, don't want to add to the complexity of setup
17:22	<Chutt>	a 4-digit pin is easy
17:22	<briand>	ah... fair enuf.
17:22	<xris>	Chutt: I'd vote for varchar(255), personally. let people put in a word/phrase, etc.
17:23	<Chutt>	xris, for a remote?
17:23	<briand>	pop-up keyboard! ;)
17:23	<xris>	briand: protocol-only isn't secure. mythtv's code is open and so any hacker could fake a keyboard.
17:23	<Chutt>	meh
17:23	<Chutt>	i dunno
17:23	<Chutt>	CDevMobile, if you think that'd work, and don't mind working more.. =)
17:23	<xris>	Chutt: how many people set their frontend up for the first time without a keyboard?
17:23	<Chutt>	xris, i did :p
17:24	<Chutt>	well, i ssh'd in
17:24	<briand>	well, you could brute-force a 4-digit PIN in a matter of seconds, via script...
17:24	<xris>	heh
17:24	<Chutt>	briand, easy to detect.
17:24	<xris>	briand: yeah. that's my concern. although an exponential tarpit would prevent most of that...
17:24	<briand>	true, but with no key migration, they can take their time discovering it, too... and still programmatically obtain it
17:25	<xris>	Chutt: besides. people are more than welcome to pick a 4-digit pin if they want... some people would prefer that it be longer.
17:25	<xris>	briand: huh?
17:25	<Chutt>	xris, dialogs are easier to design :p
17:25	<briand>	xris: you pick 1234
17:25	<briand>	i can take a stab at it now, if it's wrong, I'll try again in random() minutes/hours, whatever.
17:25	<gbee>	remember we're not talking about preventing 'hackers' from gaining access, merely discouraging casual connections
17:25	<Chutt>	briand, it doesn't need to be secure
17:26	<briand>	since the key won't be changing, I'll eventually get to it.
17:26	<xris>	gbee: I was under the impression that we were going for the "preventing hackers" thing, too.. lots of people run mythtv in a dorm, etc.
17:26	<Chutt>	most people still use the default mythtv mysql password, i bet.
17:26	<briand>	ah, okay.. perhaps i should read more of the backlog before I pipe in.. ;)
17:26	<briand>	Chutt: true enough there.
17:26	<xris>	briand: yes. but "eventually" could be years.
17:26	<gbee>	if anyone _really_ wanted access then they'll have no trouble bypassing whatever security is used
17:26	<xris>	Chutt: that's also true.
17:26	<briand>	well, except for the ubuntu users who have one 'chosen' for them, apparently
17:26	<Chutt>	mainly trying to raise the bar a bit, since it's giving out the mysql password now
17:27	<gbee>	xris: yeah and that's why I suggested having some authentication method, but there is a limit to what we can realistically do
17:28	<gbee>	without encrypting the connection, anyone with a packet sniffer could grab the password, no matter how long it is
17:28	<xris>	gbee: it's true. a pin/key would be a decent enough auth method. and cache it in ~/.mythtv/pins or something like that
17:28	<briand>	limit connections by MAC address. :)
17:28	<xris>	briand: easily spoofed
17:28	<briand>	xris: only if they know a "valid" FE's MAC address
17:29	<GreyFoxx>	anything beyond a simple pin defeats the purpose of the autodiscovery. Or at least the purpose of it's initial concept which is making it trivially easy to add a new frontend.
17:29	<briand>	well, being able to find it is one thing... being able to connect to and use it is another.
17:29	<GreyFoxx>	Keeping it simple, like with the small pin number also makes it easy to use livecd's as a frontend too since they auto detect the backend, enter a ping and your in
17:30	<gbee>	those people using mythtv on a dorm network right now have no more security than the fact that their DB password is unknown - so we're merely trying to maintain that same level of protection by not handing out that info to every frontend on the network
17:30	<GreyFoxx>	gbee: Exactly
17:30	<GreyFoxx>	anyone can connect to mythbackend with no authentication, get alist of recordings, change settings on the backend or delete all your shows right over the mythprotocol as it is now
17:31	<GreyFoxx>	So it's not like this is really making the overal system less secure
17:31	<briand>	one of the (many) reasons very few ports on my router are 'open' to the real world.
17:31	<gbee>	perhaps a little more secure
17:31	<GreyFoxx>	even a 4 pin number you can enter from a remote makes it more secure from casual onlookers
17:32	<CDevMobile>	missed some of the conversion ... shouldn't we just keep the system open and allow advanced settings for the few that need security?
17:32	<xris>	I still vote for allowing a variable-length pin.
17:32	<xris>	but just-numbers would be fine if you're not going for great security.
17:32	<GreyFoxx>	CDev: I think so
17:32	<xris>	and add some sort of bruteforce-detection/blocking
17:33	<gbee>	CDevMobile: yeah, making it optional seems reasonable
17:33	<briand>	xris: even with "just numbers", they could still enter a 'phrase' -- using the same #->letter group mapping found on a cell phone
17:33	<CDevMobile>	could add a mac filter to the backend for those who need it
17:33	<Chutt>	you'd need an easy way to configure that.
17:33	<xris>	briand: yeah. it's a pity that t9 is patented (and the guy who invented it no longer owns the rights -- friend of mine knows him)
17:34	<xris>	CDevMobile: mac filter would be a huge pain. pin/key is much easier
17:34	<gbee>	for the initial implementation I'd keep it simple, tarpits, mac address filters and the rest can be added with time
17:34	<briand>	xris: all my passwords at work are phrases easy for me to remember -- but 'encoded' into digits... makes the security team happy, but they do tend to wonder how I can remember a 40-number password. :)
17:34	<gbee>	0.21 isn't going to be released tomorrow :)
17:34	<CDevMobile>	but pin would only protect the one call to get db info.
17:34	<xris>	tarpit should be relatively easy.. although it would take another db entry, etc, so I guess yeah.
17:35	<CDevMobile>	mac filter could be used on all protocol msgs with little overhead
17:35	<Chutt>	could just add it to the announce command
17:36	<xris>	CDevMobile: what about using the pin to differentiate between "basic" and "advanced" connections? no pin means read-only upnp-only type stuff.. with pin means full-frontend access.
17:36	<xris>	could use that to set up any mac address filters, etc., but I think Chutt is probably more correct in just adding it as a state for the tracked connection.
17:37	<Chutt>	dinner time for me
17:37	<CDevMobile>	would mean hardware upnp clients could never be trudsted
17:37	<CDevMobile>	upnp is connectionless
17:38	<CDevMobile>	i'm open for anything.. just want it to be painless for the majority of users
17:38	<gbee>	btw, it seems we do support multimedia keys to some extent - my 'mute' keys works for example, but my volume keys are only registering a 'QEvent::KeyRelease' with a key id of '0'
17:39	<GreyFoxx>	CDev: I'd say require a pin to get the DB connection info if one is already set in the backends DB, if not it shouldn;t matter
17:41	<CDevMobile>	sounds good to me
17:42	<GreyFoxx>	That way users can enable it as they want, and it wont force all users to go in and set on just because they update myth
17:42	\|-\|	Bakefy [n=westjd@c-68-58-41-69.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #mythtv
17:42	<CDevMobile>	if they suppy a pin when none is set.. ignore or return error?
17:42	<GreyFoxx>	I'd ignore it, and not store it unless it's actually set
17:43	<GreyFoxx>	I assume after that in general we would store the pin in mysql.txt so they don;t have to repeat it
17:43	<GreyFoxx>	and then later , if the pin changes the frontend can popup a "My pin doesn't work, please enter a new one"
17:45	<CDevMobile>	I'll see what I can do
17:45	<GreyFoxx>	That rocks
17:45	<GreyFoxx>	I was curious though. You had mentioned that there is a standard sent of xml tags used for requesting transcoding/certain codecs over upnp. Do you have any examples or know where I can read up on them ?
17:46	<CDevMobile>	i'd have to look at the specs on upnp.org
17:46	<GreyFoxx>	I see tversity auto detects the type of player requesting the file and will autotranscode based on aconfigured profile for that type of device
17:47	<CDevMobile>	it's a combination of connectionmanager service and th AVTranfer(?) service
17:48	<CDevMobile>	it's the conection managers job to match formats.
17:48	<GreyFoxx>	I haven't looked at it from the packet level yet, they seem to have profile .xml files for each device type in case you want to customize traffic or responses based on the requestor. At least for the transcoding
17:48	<GreyFoxx>	I just installed it last night for playing around
17:49	<CDevMobile>	the server would expose res elements that may be a diff format and wheb requested the server would auto transcode
17:49	<xris>	CDevMobile: how is it connectionless if it uses http?
17:51	<CDevMobile>	it doesn't require a persistent connection. (the myth protocol tracks all connections and requires initialization and tear down)
17:52	\|-\|	[Spctr]PFalcon [n=Peregrin@c-75-68-54-105.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #mythtv
17:53	<CDevMobile>	the http connections timeout after a short time and it dosen't affect client functionallity
17:54	[~]	CDevMobile thumbs are starting to go numb
17:56	\|-\|	Bakefy [n=westjd@c-68-58-41-69.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has left #mythtv ["Leaving"]
18:02	\|-\|	CDevMobile [i=wmirc_us@140.sub-75-194-89.myvzw.com] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
18:02	<gbee>	bah, seems to be a bug with the drivers - no X keypress event is sent only the keyrelease, myth ignores keyrelease events so the buttons don't work
18:03	<gbee>	might as well add mouse button support whilst I'm here though
18:04	<xris>	gbee: at least your multimedia keys register with the kernel. half of mine don't even trigger a device event
18:05	<gbee>	:(
18:06	<gbee>	only got the mute button working with myth, I probably will add a local hack to support the volume buttons
18:07	<gbee>	that together with mouse button support will enable me to use my cordless mouse as a passable remote for use with my laptop
18:09	\|-\|	PFalcon [n=Peregrin@c-75-68-54-105.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
18:09	<briand>	you remind me of a problem i was having -- how come my keyboard-entered numbers don't work in myth dialogs? I have to use the remote. :(
18:10	\|-\|	rtsai [n=rtsai@208-201-231-158.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has joined #mythtv
18:11	<briand>	(...use the remote, in conjunction with the pop-up keyboard, that is)
18:12	<xris>	briand: num-lock?
18:12	<gbee>	works for me,
18:13	<gbee>	just renamed a recording '1234'
18:13	<briand>	xris: hmm.. you know, I don't think i ever even tried that... lemme go add a 'year' to a random mp3 file. :)
18:14	<gbee>	ahh those dialogs are a little different
18:15	<briand>	grr. no, doesn't work.
18:15	<gbee>	they use the cell(mobile)phone style entry
18:15	<briand>	if I press (1) I get "\|X...%01]"
18:15	<janneg>	it wouldn't work, set 250 ip up test 4 pins for each
18:16	<gbee>	they also support the popupkeyboard so they don't need to use that older system
18:16	<briand>	in fact, even the #-keys on the remote do the same thing.
18:17	<janneg>	argh, I shouldn't answer to somewhere in the scrollback
18:17	<briand>	so I have to use the popupkeyboard to enter numbers
18:17	<gbee>	briand: any dialogs other than those used in mythmusic?
18:18	<gbee>	I can change them easily enough
18:18	<briand>	gbee: I'm not sure. I've only really run into it while updating/correcting/filling out mp3 tags in my music collection.
18:19	\|-\|	CaptainSeabag [n=mythtv@cpe-72-226-222-205.rochester.res.rr.com] has joined #mythtv
18:19	\|-\|	CaptainSeabag [n=mythtv@cpe-72-226-222-205.rochester.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit]
18:19	<gbee>	ok, I'll look for other examples when I 'fix' those in mythmusic
18:20	<briand>	thanks... appreciate it. you have my nomination for "Myth Programmer of the Week". ;)
18:20	<gbee>	wasn't there a setting somewhere which allowed you to chose whether 'mobilephone' style text-entry was used? can't find it now
18:20	<gbee>	briand: I really don't deserve that
18:20	<briand>	i don't remember seeing one anywhere... but i'm not denying the possibility that it isn't in there somewhere
18:21	<briand>	gbee: sure ya do... it's only for the week, after all. ;)
18:22	<briand>	it's not like you get a closer parking spot at the MythTV development headquarters or anything.
18:22	<xris>	briand: can't do much about that. there's only one mythcar
18:22	<briand>	heh...
18:23	<briand>	now _that_ is an elaborate "because I can" type of project...
18:24	<briand>	heck.. if i added a very conservative low-end mythtv system to my car, it'd triple the value of the vehicle.
18:24	<xris>	briand: I was actually just referring to isaac's license plate. heh
18:25	<briand>	oh.. I didn't know he had a vanity plate for that...
18:27	<xris>	can't find the image. I think it just says MYTHTV
18:27	\|-\|	rtsai1111 [n=rtsai@208-201-231-158.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
18:27	<xris>	I briefly thought about getting one that says MYTHWEB, but the $50 or whatever they cost would be 1/10 the price of the car itself.
18:28	<briand>	oh, so you have a car like mine, then. :)
18:29	\|-\|	JoeBorn [n=rootmeis@59.61.26.182] has joined #mythtv
18:29	<briand>	(1993 Escort wagon, 140K miles, scars from where the Jeep Cherokee backed over me still very obvious)
18:29	<xris>	my car's worth a bit more than I paid for it, but yeah. $500 (plus about $500 in repairs and new tires since then).
18:30	<xris>	1987 camry. I pondered trading it in for something newer, but the only reason I have would be for better gas mileage. and my car gets 30-35 now.. not worth it.
18:30	<briand>	exactly.
18:31	[~]	xris wants to design an official "recommended system configuration " for mythtv.
18:31	<briand>	i get probably 28-32 mpg now... and have no monthly car payment.
18:31	<xris>	yeah. car cost the equivalent of one month's payment for what I was looking at (matrix or prius).
18:31	<briand>	and, i could probably leave the keys in it in the worst part of town -- the thugs drive better cars than this. :)
18:31	<xris>	yeah. much better security than an alarm. heh.
18:32	<xris>	although I did have a 1979 datsun pickup stolen once. got it back with a toyota key in the ignition.
18:32	<briand>	indeed. in fact, my gps & amateur radio equipment are probably worth more than the car they're mounted in
18:32	\|-\|	JoeyBorn [n=rootmeis@59.61.26.35] has joined #mythtv
18:32	[~]	xris just has a tape deck
18:32	<briand>	8-track??
18:32	[~]	briand ducks.
18:34	\|-\|	JoeXBorn [n=rootmeis@59.61.26.169] has joined #mythtv
18:34	<xris>	nah. it also has an adapter for my ipod. no point in upgrading.
18:38	<briand>	i've got a jvc cd-deck in the car.. with a front-panel 3.5mm stereo jack for my Zen Jukebox. :)
18:38	<mikegrb>	I just keep an orchestra in the trunk
18:39	<mikegrb>	but you have to get extra frys when you go through a drive through, otherwise they strike :<
18:39	<briand>	heheh
18:49	\|-\|	JoeBorn [n=rootmeis@59.61.26.182] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
18:52	\|-\|	Anduin [n=awithers@adsl-69-110-29-34.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [Connection timed out]
18:53	\|-\|	JoeyBorn [n=rootmeis@59.61.26.35] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
18:56	\|-\|	JoeXBorn [n=rootmeis@59.61.26.169] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
19:06	\|-\|	Merlin83b2 [n=Merlin83@office.34sp.com] has joined #mythtv
19:14	\|-\|	Merlin83b [n=Merlin83@office.34sp.com] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)]
19:21	<Sembiance>	:)
19:27	<xris>	Sembiance: you might want to remind people again if you're still offering up some hd cards.
19:29	<Sembiance>	yah
19:29	<Sembiance>	I seem to always be on when others are not
19:53	<xris>	anyone have a link to the original nupplevideo spec? I'm trying to correct the wikipedia article about mythtv
19:54	<xris>	spec/website/etc?
19:54	<xris>	since the current article says that it was invented by mythtv
19:58	<xris>	nevermind. website seems to be gone
20:28	\|-\|	DrNickRiviera [n=riviera@so-5494-x0.essex.ac.uk] has quit ["Leaving."]
21:05	\|-\|	xris [n=xris@dsl081-161-160.sea1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has quit ["http://forevermore.net/"]
21:13	<Captain_Murdoch>	xris, Virginia has special .com license plates, so I put MYTHTV with the .com on the plates for my pickup a while back after Isaac got the .com domain.
21:13	<Chutt>	http://www.mythtv.org/mythcar.jpg
21:13	<Chutt>	btw.
21:13	<Captain_Murdoch>	doh, he left 8 minutes ago. :)
21:14	<Captain_Murdoch>	yeah, I think I've seen that before.
21:15	<Chutt>	right
21:15	<Captain_Murdoch>	if I didn't spend so much time skimming scrollback from the past 2 days while I was out of town, I would have got it in before he left. :)
21:15	<Chutt>	i meant that for xris, but, he's gone as you said =)
21:16	<briand>	Chutt: nice. :)
21:16	<briand>	and, you're a cyclist, as well?
21:16	<Captain_Murdoch>	looks better than on my 97 Ranger.
21:17	<Chutt>	naw, the bike's from college
21:17	<briand>	ah. :)
21:17	<Chutt>	the tires are probably flat right now
21:17	<Chutt>	still hangin there, though
21:17	<Captain_Murdoch>	had to get something on the pickup because I'll probably give up my PRGRAMR on my Mustang when I get rid of it in 6 months or so. thinking of something like SETUID 0 if it's still available. :)
21:17	<briand>	i used to race, back in the day.. still have a BiKyle crit bike and a Lemond Alpe d'Huez gathering dust
21:17	<briand>	we won't talk about how my metabolism has apparently waned in the ensuing years..
21:21	<Chutt>	heh
21:59	\|-\|	xris [n=xris@xris.forevermore.net] has joined #mythtv
22:05	\|-\|	eskil [n=eskil@natint3.juniper.net] has left #mythtv ["Leaving"]
22:22	\|-\|	mphill [n=mphill@CPE-70-92-242-47.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #mythtv
22:26	\|-\|	cmorgan [n=cmorgan@68-116-193-70.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #mythtv
22:34	\|-\|	packetscan [n=packetsc@srv01.packetscan.com] has quit [Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)]
22:36	\|-\|	Nem^1 [n=Nem@dslb-084-056-231-148.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #mythtv
22:37	\|-\|	mphill [n=mphill@CPE-70-92-242-47.wi.res.rr.com] has quit ["Leaving"]
22:50	\|-\|	PointyPumper [i=Pintlezz@OL221-67.fibertel.com.ar] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
22:55	\|-\|	Nem^ [n=Nem@dslb-084-056-240-165.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
22:55	\|-\|	Nem^1 changed nick to Nem^
23:00	[~]	Captain_Murdoch debates sending a reply to the OpenMedia guy saying we'll have to send him our fee schedules. "So who can I work with to get this going once they start the data streams."
23:13	<hads>	Mmm, tis a bit abrupt
23:14	\|-\|	cmorgan [n=cmorgan@68-116-193-70.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
23:16	<Captain_Murdoch>	I sometimes think he uses the -dev and -users list as tech support when his customers have problems and call his tech support.
23:24	\|-\|	PacketScan [i=Tsu@srv01.packetscan.com] has joined #mythtv
23:31	\|-\|	microw [n=mike@203.91.45.4] has joined #mythtv
23:31	\|-\|	microw [n=mike@203.91.45.4] has left #mythtv []
23:36	<hads>	Yeah, wouldn't suprise me.
23:58	\|-\|	JoeBorn [n=rootmeis@203.110.162.177] has joined #mythtv
---	Log	closed Fri Feb 02 00:00:18 2007