TheGrebs.com:IRC Logs:#mythtv:2005:03:17

---	Log	opened Thu Mar 17 00:00:49 2005
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01:33	rkulagow__	dopester: here?
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02:59	anxt	wow myth rawqz
02:59	anxt	hello #myth
03:00	anxt	took me a while to massage it all into working good
03:00	anxt	then i did a mysqldump
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05:44	pa8	hello
05:45	pa8	has anyone installed MythTV using Jarod Wilson's tutorial?
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06:22	Geckofiend	pa8 /topic
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09:06	dopester	rkulagow: here now?
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09:32	_rkulagow_	dopester: here?
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12:16	_rkulagow_	chutt: here?
12:23	Chutt	ya
12:23	_rkulagow_	docs sync please.
12:24	Chutt	ok
12:24	_rkulagow_	thanks
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12:25	Chutt	done
12:34	hadees	is mythtv.info really moving to mythtv.org?
12:36	Chutt	yes
12:37	Chutt	if certain people get off their asses and start moving things
12:49	hadees	Chutt, hehe, hey when you took the vis from xmms did you convert them to qt?
12:49	hadees	some of the vis i have been fooling around with recently are gtk but i know it is a bad idea to keep them that way
12:49	hadees	if mythmusic is to use themj
12:51	Chutt	i don't think i took any directly from xmms
12:51	Chutt	fairly sure they were all available as standalone versions
12:51	hadees	Chutt, i thought you converted some xmms
12:51	hadees	hmm
12:53	Chutt	if i did, i wouldn't have bothered converting from gtk
12:54	Chutt	most of that crap was only for config interfaces, which don't exist, so that code could just be cut out
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12:55	hadees	Chutt, intresting, so you have no problem with me adding a vis with gtk?
12:55	hadees	the vis just start a new window right
12:55	Chutt	hell no
12:55	Chutt	no gtk
12:55	Chutt	no new windows
12:55	hadees	hehe okay
12:55	hadees	well i figured out how to access the winamp dlls
12:56	hadees	i just need to get mythtv to use it somehow
12:56	hadees	the xmms plugin though that does it is in gtk...
13:00	Chutt	it's using gtk for non-graphical stuff?
13:05	hadees	Chutt, no its more of a pass between from the winamp vis api to xmms vis api
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13:05	hadees	i think i can just use one of the existing vis in mythtv and just cut out he xmms stuff
13:06	hadees	it should be cool but stablity might be a problem
13:06	hadees	not all winamp vis will work
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13:33	Blafasel123	Hello
13:33	Blafasel123	Anybody here?
13:35	Blafasel123	Is there a list with known bugs for the 0.17 release?
13:36	kvandivo	you can browse the mailing lists to ascertain that information, and note the topic of this channel
13:37	Blafasel123	Blafasel123: I think I found a bug and just want to confirm if it is not known right now. Is this not the right please to discus about it?
13:37	kvandivo	mailing list is your best bet
13:39	Blafasel123	Should I post the bug to the user or dev list?
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14:28	o_cee	BleedAway, there's a bugzilla as well
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14:32	hadees	o_cee, does that get used? it seems sort of hidden
14:32	o_cee	Captain_Murdoch, hasn't #249 been fixed by you?
14:32	o_cee	i don't get many bugs assigned to me, so i don't use it that much
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14:34	LedHed	anyone know if MythLCD is working in 0.17? I've been told that it may be borked?
14:35	o_cee	isn't lcd support built into myth? what's mythlcd?
14:35	hadees	LedHed, bah i said last resort
14:36	hadees	o_cee, yeah but the stuff is called mythlcd
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14:36	hadees	o_cee, and it is an option
14:36	LedHed	hadees: I didnt ask him directly
14:36	o_cee	ah, no idea
14:36	hadees	LedHed, hehe yeah but this channel isn't for support questions
14:36	hadees	LedHed, just trying to warn you
14:36	mBob	ive just seen a suggestion of a pop3 client built into mythtv(to go with mythweb maybe) - just a suggestion
14:36	LedHed	I'm not really looking for support just a simple yes or no.
14:37	o_cee	mBob, that'll be fun, you know where to send the code!
14:37	LedHed	a myth Screensaver would be cool too (not the x screensaver)
14:37	hadees	LedHed, semantics
14:37	LedHed	??
14:37	hadees	this channel is for talking about development like I coded this, its not compiling
14:37	hadees	etc
14:38	hadees	LedHed, there is one kind of the screen goes off after a certain time
14:38	mBob	o_cee - i wouldn't use it, and cant code. i just saw it as a suggestion so i thought i'd come mention it in here
14:38	shadash	hadees are you working on visualizations
14:38	o_cee	mBob, this isn't a suggestion channel.. but ok.
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14:38	LedHed	laterz
14:38	shadash	I want more vis but need a quick intro
14:39	shadash	if it's being worked on I'll just wait
14:39	hadees	mBob, its not a really good one, you first need a keyboard and why wouldn't you just use a computer
14:39	hadees	shadash, i am kind of working on one
14:39	hadees	i am working more on a vis that lets you use winamp vis
14:40	hadees	thus making a shitload of vis able to work with mythmusic
14:40	LedHed	a MythMail add-on would be ok, but I'd never use it. No keyboard attached...
14:40	mBob	hadees - fair enough, although it would be useful for a 'do all' box for the tv
14:40	mBob	some people might use it with a wireless keyboard though
14:40	shadash	hadees: nice, that's more then I was thinking
14:40	hadees	mBob, make you toast? you are way out on the extreme, there are other things like mabey home automation support that would be better first
14:41	hadees	shadash, your welcome to help i am not exactly a master at this yet myself
14:41	mBob	hadees - i didn't come in here to push the idea, just to suggest it, mythtv is already on the way to being a do all box, with mythphone and mythweb
14:41	LedHed	I'm going to try to make ReplayTV's a possible frontend for Myth
14:42	mBob	although home automation support would be _cool_
14:42	mBob	tell me when its in cvs ;)
14:42	hadees	mBob, yeah but mythpone is easy and mythweb isn't a myth module it is a web client ot access myth data
14:42	LedHed	only requires a simple script to take Myth Show info from the DB and export it to XML
14:42	hadees	LedHed, why though if you have replay tv why would you also have a mythtv box?
14:43	hadees	or the other way around
14:43	LedHed	lots of reasons.
14:43	LedHed	Storage, Video Quality
14:43	LedHed	the ReplayTV's have way better Video Quality
14:43	hadees	LedHed, eh your also thinking on the edge thats like the random stuff that gets done after mythtv is rock stable and has really good core plugins
14:44	hadees	LedHed, video out? or video in because if you record with a mythtv box the video quality can't be improved
14:44	LedHed	hadees: I can already do it. I just need to make it automated
14:44	LedHed	hadees: Video out
14:44	LedHed	the PVR-250 does a fine job recording
14:44	shadash	hadees: send me an email
14:44	hadees	shadash, http://www.emulinks.de/xmms-winamp/
14:45	hadees	shadash, whats your email?
14:45	NightMonkey	LedHed: Well, then you need the 350 to do a proper comparison.
14:45	LedHed	NightMonkey: I have one
14:45	LedHed	replayTV's are still better
14:45	hadees	NightMonkey, 350 isn't a good choice in my opion because you need to encode anything thats not in mpeg2 into mpeg2 or it won't display
14:45	hadees	alot of extra work if you want to play a divx file or somthing
14:46	LedHed	ReaplyTV is the same way. It only plays mpeg2
14:46	LedHed	I dont need divx, I just buy more storage space
14:46	NightMonkey	LedHed: Huh. Well, I'm off to Google that one.
14:46	hadees	LedHed, you don't always have a choice of what files you want to view
14:47	hadees	true recordings are all mpeg2
14:47	o_cee	and this is relevant to myth development how?
14:47	LedHed	its not
14:47	LedHed	sorry
14:47	shadash	hadees: shadn(at)visualmediatech()com
14:47	hadees	o_cee, sorry i guess i lost site
14:47	hadees	sight
14:48	shadash	hadees: send me an email about where you are and I'll try to work with you
14:48	LedHed	it started out as a way to get ReplayTV's to play myth recordings, but soon went to video quality comparisons...
14:48	hadees	shadash, cool i am still at the start but there isn't really a whole lot to do in theory but it will be nice to bounce ideas off someone
14:49	hadees	shadash, whats your programing knowledge?
14:49	shadash	agreed
14:49	shadash	<--- hacker can do most scripting lang + read through c
14:50	LedHed	shadash: when will a VMC ISO ba available with the Whitebox distro?
14:50	hadees	shadash, k the stuff is mostly simple c
14:50	hadees	c++
14:50	shadash	LedHed: I'm downloading the iso's from centos as we speak
14:50	shadash	I have all the scripts to build that done already
14:51	LedHed	shadash: cool, I look forward to trying it out. I have a fresh Frontend waiting for a distro to install
14:52	LedHed	shadash: when you compile Myth add in MythLCD
14:52	shadash	LedHed: /join #VMT ;-)
14:52	LedHed	already there
14:52	LedHed	you arent
14:53	LedHed	:)
14:55	Chutt	yay, yet another lame distro
14:56	LedHed	why are so many people down on myth distros?
14:56	Chutt	because there's enough of them already.
14:56	Chutt	more useful things happen when contributing to existing projects rather than starting another.
14:57	LedHed	I think his goal is just to make it easier for people to install Myth.
14:57	Chutt	he's going about it rather poorly, imo.
14:57	shadash	well I started mine because I like the anaconda installer
14:58	LedHed	I've installed myth using his distro, it was the fastest way to setup a fronted.
14:58	LedHed	still needs work though
14:58	Chutt	knoppmyth isn't?
14:58	shadash	doesn't have xorg
14:58	Chutt	so?
14:58	LedHed	knoppmyth has never worked well for me
14:58	Chutt	doesn't get you anything myth needs.
14:59	Chutt	or even wants optionally
14:59	shadash	isn't as easy to set up in my opinion
14:59	Chutt	setup's near identical.
15:00	shadash	semantics, *shrug* everyones got what they like
15:00	shadash	I like RH been using it since 98
15:01	Chutt	wow, that's really long
15:01	shadash	well I'm not going down that road
15:02	Chutt	you're the one that brought it up
15:02	shadash	cough aix before that
15:02	Chutt	same with xorg
15:02	Chutt	you brought it up as a reason to now use knoppmyth
15:02	shadash	well to be honest
15:03	shadash	I don't like the grey crosshatch in xfree86
15:03	shadash	when it first comes up
15:03	Chutt	uh, so run xsetroot first
15:03	shadash	in Xorg you can make it black
15:06		* Beirdo shakes his head. some people
15:08		* LedHed thinks "Beirdo slaps people with fish also"
15:08	LedHed	:)
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15:17	hadees	Chutt, if you really wanted to stop them just offically saction one of them and give them a page on mythtv.org
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15:17	Chutt	hadees, why would i want to stop them?
15:17	Chutt	if they don't want to contribute usefully, that's their choice
15:17	Chutt	i think it's dumb, but, whatever
15:18	hadees	eh but if you supported one of them then most likely new devs would choose to submit to that one
15:18	hadees	Chutt, i am not saying you have to do anything but pick which one you think is the best
15:18	Chutt	i've already got the decent ones linked to from the website
15:22	shadash	hadees: picking one over another = flamewar
15:22	hadees	Chutt, do you know if any of the vis plugins you put into mythmusic were also a xmms plugin? i know you said they were standalone but alot of the time people code them a couple ways
15:23	shadash	being more supportive is all I ask for
15:23	hadees	shadash, Chutt rules mythtv, who cares
15:23	hadees	plus what the distros all want is just easy setup of mythtv, you don't need a distro for that
15:23	Chutt	hadees, i really don't remember
15:23	Chutt	i think the bumpscope was
15:24	Chutt	i may have based the goom interface off of the xmms plugin, but it's been quite a while.
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15:25	Chutt	shadash, i'm supportive of people that i think are doing something useful
15:25	hadees	Chutt, cool one quick question though this won't come into play till the end but one aspect of winamp plugins is they have a configuration window that pops up to configure aspects of it. I am sort of unsure how to let a mythtv user access this
15:25	Chutt	don't =)
15:25	Chutt	just pick reasonable defaults and hardcode em
15:25	hadees	Chutt, well its diffrent for each plugin
15:26	Chutt	right
15:26	Chutt	same answer.
15:26	shadash	unfotunatly I
15:26	shadash	I'm too far in to stop now :-(
15:26	kvandivo	don't throw good money after bad
15:26	hadees	Chutt, okay i was hoping to let people just go to winamp.com and pick what they want
15:27	Chutt	stuff should have reasonable defaults
15:27	Chutt	you can't really pop up some random config window :p
15:27	hadees	Chutt, yeah i know that, i was thinking mabey mythsetup or something
15:27	LedHed	shadash: keep up the good work. n00bs appreciate it
15:28	hadees	or have the configure window display as the mythtv configs
15:28	hadees	anyway the first part is getting the vis to play first, this is all kind of finishing touches
15:29	hadees	shadash, you get my email?
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15:30	Chutt	hadees, what are you going to do about fft data?
15:32	hadees	Chutt, not sure, right now I just want to make sure i can access the dll functions
15:32	shadash	hadees, I like your idea except that it adds wine as a dependency
15:33	hadees	shadash, well winelib
15:33	hadees	and not a huge deal
15:33	shadash	ends justify the means though
15:33	hadees	shadash, you arn't running wine your just access the dll
15:34	shadash	understand
15:34	Chutt	the ends certainly don't justify the means
15:34	Chutt	i'll reject bad code, regardless of what it does.
15:34	hadees	Chutt, hehe any suggestions on fft?
15:36	Chutt	is it still part of the winamp api?
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15:40	shadash	Chutt, are you focused on adding specific visualizations rather than hadees idea
15:40	hadees	Chutt, i am not 100% i am still learning how the plugin works, right now all i can tell is that xmms is rendering data gathered from the dll
15:41	hadees	so i don't know if it is doing the calc on the data first inside the dll
15:41	Chutt	i'm not focused on adding any visualizations
15:41	hadees	or if the data being passed is just audio or whatever that needs to have calc
15:41	Chutt	hadees, last i checked (many years ago), the winamp api had hooks to pass in raw audio data and fft data
15:42	thor_	xmms api has the same thing
15:42	Chutt	mythmusic only provides raw pcm
15:42	Chutt	no fft.
15:42	Chutt	so that's something you'd have to add.
15:42	hadees	Chutt, how do the other vis do that?
15:42	LedHed	Chutt: is mythLCD broken in 0.17? I checked the Mailing List but couldnt find an answer..
15:42	Chutt	do what?
15:42	hadees	they each have their own?
15:43	Chutt	ledhed, i don't use it.
15:43	LedHed	thanks
15:43	Chutt	i haven't received any reports of it being broken
15:43	thor_	it is not broken
15:43	Chutt	so either no one uses it, or it isn't.
15:43	LedHed	thor_: thanks
15:43		* o_cee waves at thor, hi! :)
15:43	thor_	yup
15:43	Chutt	hadees, err, no. none of them use the fft data, except the spectroscope, and that generates its own
15:44	hadees	Chutt, hmm really? i though you needed to convert it to some data
15:44	o_cee	got an idea for closing screens in mythui and opengl.. like, dissolve the screen into a cloud fading/blowing away... heheheh...
15:44	Chutt	hadees, you really don't know much about audio, do you? :p
15:44		* thor_ waits for news on Swedish girlfriends, showers, milkshakes, and what not
15:45	hadees	Chutt, hehe not really, this is kind of my learning project and I really am better on the wine side of this then the vis part
15:45	thor_	hadees, raw PCM is _all_the data. you can, by definition, transform it into any other representation
15:45	GreyFoxx	o_cee: That would be neat. Or something like a fade in/out curtain openning kind of screen when you launch a video in mythvideo "_
15:45	o_cee	thor_, right. status report: new girl, really nice, showrs = yeah, a couple.. milkshakes: well, depends what brand. the icy ones haven't started yet, far to cold heh. the spicy ones are great, can't get enough.
15:46	thor_	excellent
15:46	o_cee	yep
15:46	o_cee	:)
15:46	hadees	Chutt, well i guess if it can still do it i'll just pass in raw data
15:47	hadees	unless i can figure out what ever fft formula winamp uses
15:47	hadees	but whats the big diffrence, preformance?
15:48	Chutt	er
15:48	Chutt	fft is frequency domain
15:48	o_cee	got an exam tomorrow involving ft and imagemanipulation :)
15:48	Chutt	heh
15:48	Chutt	actually, it's easier this way: pcm data, graphed, is an oscilliscope
15:48	hadees	Chutt, its not just that isn't it a general concept of data transformation
15:49	Chutt	fft data, graphed, is a spectroscope
15:49	thor_	o_cee, Fourier Transformations?
15:49	o_cee	thor_, yeah
15:49	thor_	cool
15:49	hadees	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourier_transforms
15:49	o_cee	thor_, part of what i've been reading at least.. yeah it's nice
15:50	hadees	see you can do it on physics, number theory, combinatorics, signal processing, probability theory, statistics, cryptography, acoustics, oceanography, optics
15:50	thor_	econometrics
15:50	o_cee	images
15:51	hadees	is the formula always the same?
15:52	o_cee	sure
15:52	o_cee	fft is a way of calculating the ft
15:52	o_cee	fast fourier transform
15:53	o_cee	uses aproxamisations and stuff that makes it alot faster than normal ft
15:53	o_cee	yeah nice spelling :P
15:53	hadees	so no matter what lib i use to get the fft from pcm it will be the same as if i used another libary on the same pcm
15:53	o_cee	should be similar
15:54	o_cee	transforming an image to ft and back shows no difference. if you'd compare it bit by bit there might be differences caused by the fft algo, but
15:54	thor_	uhm, fftw is already used in mythmusic
15:54	hadees	thor_, huh for what? chutt just said it wasn't
15:54	hadees	well one vis uses it but it has it's own
15:55	thor_	http://cvs.mythtv.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/mythmusic/README?rev=1.25&view=markup
15:58	hadees	hmm i actully remember installing that now
16:01	hadees	with raw pcm is it easy to get the sample rate?
16:02	thor_	+90% of the time, it is 16 bits, 2 channels, 44.1
16:03	thor_	and the listner method in the decoding stuff tells you in any case
16:03	hadees	thor_, yeah thats what is hard coded into the xmms plugin
16:03	hadees	but it would be nice to set that
16:04	hadees	cool
16:04	Netslayer	what's that triple dot thing mean again that profs use, ie a dot above two other dots? is it therfore?
16:04	hadees	etc ?
16:05	Netslayer	. / ..
16:05	thor_	three dots in a triangle is therefore
16:06		* thor_ glances at topic
16:06	shadash	keep up with all the good vis/mythmusic info
16:07	Beirdo	QED
16:07	Netslayer	in open office how do you do a pheta with the formula thing?
16:07	Beirdo	Netslayer: what does that have to do with MythTV development?
16:08	LedHed	beirdo always true to the cause
16:08	Netslayer	wtf oh i'm in the wrong channel lol
16:08	Netslayer	Beirdo, whoops sorry
16:10	hadees	okay so looking at the lib i was wrong it seems like the winamp api faker thing does access raw pcm but it also asks for the freq
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16:20	hadees	anyone know anything about mmap function?
16:21	thor_	ufg
16:23	hadees	thor_, hehe well see the xmms vis i am looking at loads up the dll then sets everything up and then it does a mmap to /tmp/winamp
16:23	hadees	I am kind of unsure why that is needed
16:24	hadees	i mean currently i don't know of any other way to access it but i would assume that has to be a better way
16:25	thor_	haven't the slightest
16:26	hadees	i guess they are trying to lock onto the vis proc running
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17:06	Alex23NJ	Can someone recommend a USB-based TV input/output gadget known to work well under Linux?
17:06	o_cee	yepp. says right in the topic.
17:09		* Alex23NJ bows and backs toward the exit.
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17:25	kvandivo	o_cee's gettin a bit frisky with the answers there..
17:26	Beirdo	heh
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17:30	o_cee	Page was generated in 17.145609 seconds
17:30	o_cee	wtf
17:30	o_cee	that's no good :)
17:30	o_cee	and no one to call at 11:30.. blah
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17:32	mikegrb	o_cee: <3
17:33	mikegrb	o_cee: you need a linode ;)
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17:34	o_cee	heh :)
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18:19	Quan	is there any howto docs specific on upgrading frm .15 to 17
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18:36	GoP-Demon	o_O
18:36	GoP-Demon	has anyone heard of myth tv for the xbox ?
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18:37	o_cee	http://homeschoolreading.com/
18:38	hadees	Chutt, Okay now this is nuts it seems what i thought was just a lib it called is actully a helper program that runs till the xmms plugin tells it to quit, i am guessing this isn't the kind of thing you want in myth
18:39	hadees	although i never coded anything like this mabey thats how you should do it...
18:39	o_cee	http://homeschoolreading.com/images/goat_350.jpg wtf is that guy doin
18:39	hadees	and then the plugin talks to the helper app via shared memory map on a file
18:39	hadees	does seem right to me
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18:44	hadees	i mean i guess its the same sort of thing as spawning a process but i don't know if i should still do it...
18:45	GoP-Demon	who r u talking to
18:46	hadees	GoP-Demon, anyone that will lisen... before I was talking to Chutt, Thor and a few other people about this
18:46	o_cee	GoP-Demon, the address above was for you.
18:47	o_cee	GoP-Demon, http://www.homeschoolreading.com/proofadult.htm <-- see, seems they're really good.
18:47	GoP-Demon	y is the link for me
18:48	GoP-Demon	i can read : \
18:48	o_cee	because you're in the wrong channel. thought it was because you couldn't read the topic..
18:48	GoP-Demon	o.o
18:48	o_cee	looks like boobs
18:49	hadees	o_cee, he can read already? your program must work fast
18:49	GoP-Demon	o_O
18:49	GoP-Demon	whats a read
18:49	o_cee	hadees, yep :)
18:49	o_cee	hey that other boob looks odd, they're supposed to be the same size dood
18:49	GoP-Demon	whats a boob
18:49	GoP-Demon	:o
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18:49	hadees	that thing on your mom's chest
18:49	o_cee	haha
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18:50	o_cee	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boob
18:50	o_cee	yep
18:56	Anduin	o_cee - he is doing exactly what it says.
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19:12	hadees	alright so i totally understand this xmms-winamp plugin now however there is still the issue of the shared memory file, thats how mythmusic is going to talk to the child process if i keep things the same however i could put it in memory so i don't have to use a tmp file
19:12	hadees	is there any reason a tmp file would be bad?
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19:34	pmiller9	how long show it take to change channels with mythtv and a PVR-150/500? .. mine takes like 2 seconds; what on earth is mythtv doing?
19:34	pmiller9	s/show/should
19:35	dopester	see topic
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23:03	Captain_Murdo	\| heh, computergeeks.com is selling projectors now.
23:03		* mikegrb sells a Captain_Murdoch
23:04	Chutt	whazzat?
23:04	Captain_Murdo	\| that's like a mastercard, "priceless" :)
23:04	mikegrb	Captain_Murdoch: I could probably get $5, if I lie and say you do windows
23:05	Captain_Murdo	\| they're selling a toshiba projector for $759 http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?InvtId=TDP-S20U&cat=CON
23:05	Chutt	old dlp, though
23:06	Chutt	means rainbows =)
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23:06	Captain_Murdo	\| yeah, just thought it kinda funny. I'm happy with my BenQ. only use it for movies at night though.
23:06	Chutt	mine's on right now
23:06	Chutt	adult swim =)
23:06	Captain_Murdo	\| my wife can see the rainbows occasionally and I can see them if I dart my eyes around.
23:07	Chutt	speaking of which, i shall go watch cartoons now
23:07	Captain_Murdo	\| I don't have a Myth box in the vicinity though, need to run some cabling.
23:07	rkulagow__	captain murdoch: don't do that then.
23:07	rkulagow__	or, learn to enjoy them
23:07	Captain_Murdo	\| rkulagow_ that's what I tell her. :)
23:07	Captain_Murdo	\| I don't see them, I have to make myself see them.
23:08	Captain_Murdo	\| too much REM while awake. :)
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---	Log	closed Fri Mar 18 00:00:26 2005