TheGrebs.com:IRC Logs:#mythtv:2005:02:28

---	Log	opened Mon Feb 28 00:00:50 2005
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01:55	Beirdo	dopester: WTF?
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02:21	dopester	haha
02:21	dopester	i fell asleep on the couch and apparently hit the \ key a bunch
02:21	dopester	or my cat walked on my lapyop
02:23	Beirdo	hehehhe
02:23	Beirdo	been there, done that
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07:53	trigx300	hi im using ubuntu linux (debian based) is it possible to config a boot loader to boot directly to myth
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08:03	_GeckoFiend	mornin
08:03	Chutt	hey
08:13	trigx300	hi im using ubuntu linux (debian based) is it possible to config a boot loader to boot directly to myth
08:15	Chutt	read the topic.
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08:20	_GeckoFiend	after switching crap around at home my dev box is doing thermal shutdowns every few minutes. :/ The CPU heat sink is cool, so either it's not transfering heat from the CPU, or there's a bad sensor someplace.
08:21	_GeckoFiend	so till I get it figured out, I'll not have any scrollback buffer at home
08:22	Chutt	heh
08:24	_GeckoFiend	I need to replace the mobo anyway so I can get the full 2ghz out of that AMB mobile that's in it
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08:26	_GeckoFiend	chutt: any particular version of those fanless 6600's you like?
08:28	_GeckoFiend	all the ones I find seem to have fans
08:28	Chutt	heh
08:28	Chutt	i don't know of any without a fan yet :(
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08:29	_GeckoFiend	ahhh I thought I'd seen you say something about there being a nice 6600 without a fan. That explains why I can't find one
08:35	dopester	i got one with a fan thats pretty quiet
08:36	dopester	was 113 on newegg can't remember who made it right now
08:39	dopester	chutt: you got a few?
08:39	Chutt	kinda
08:41	dopester	ok for digital tv i need to add another state to the tv_play states.. something along the lines of "tuned but no data yet" that will leave the player stopped.. you see any issues with this concept?
08:41	Chutt	i'd rather the player just dealt with no data better
08:41	dopester	the player would go into that state after a digital tv station gets a lock but no data is flowing yet, (moving a dish)
08:41	dopester	well how can it know without some messages?
08:42	Chutt	it can't know that it's not getting data?
08:42	dopester	ive only really thought the only way to do it was have hte recorder/siparser send messages to the player telling it whats going on
08:42	dopester	for example a brief signal loss on atsc usually makes the frontend exit livetv if its too close to the end
08:43	Chutt	why can't the frontend just deal with that?
08:43	dopester	well it can but can it be done without the backend telling it whats going on?
08:43	Chutt	why not?
08:43	Chutt	settop box handles it
08:44	dopester	set top box isn't blind to the recording process
08:44	Chutt	err, it's told when there's signal loss?
08:44	dopester	as far as i can tell the frontend always expects data from the backend once it gets a tuning success
08:44	Chutt	so fix that.
08:45	Chutt	that's better than sending messages around
08:45	dopester	how can i have the backend let the frontend know without a message / new state?
08:45	Chutt	why does it need to let the frontend know?
08:45	Chutt	i really don't understand
08:45	dopester	so it can stop the player while tuning, or pop an osd message saying "station off air"
08:45	Chutt	why can't you simply fix the frontend to deal with the no data situation better?
08:46	dopester	well it gives the end user no insight as to why its taking so long for starters
08:46	dopester	seems here in the states when an atsc virtual channel goes off the air all the si tables point to it being on the air
08:46	Chutt	so a satellite settop box receives signals whenever there's a data dropout, telling it that there's a data dropout?
08:46	dopester	you go to tune to the pids and just endup with no data
08:46	Chutt	that doesn't make any sense whatsoever.
08:47	dopester	well the player and input process is more closely related.. no buffer inbetween, etc..
08:47	dopester	my stbs all say "signal loss" or "bad tuning" or "moving dish"
08:47	dopester	depending on the situation
08:47	Chutt	what about ota broadcasts?
08:47	Chutt	they send messages informing that there were packets dropped?
08:47	Chutt	that the signal died?
08:48	dopester	to the end user yes
08:48	Chutt	fix the frontend, don't add stuff that's not needed.
08:48	Chutt	it shouldn't be hard.
08:48	dopester	but how can the frontend know what to tell the user is hapening?
08:48	dopester	without a message that is..
08:49	Chutt	if it doesn't get any data, it puts up a message 'no data from backend'
08:49	Chutt	and allows the user to tune.
08:49	Chutt	quite simple.
08:50	dopester	i see how thats 1 way of doing it, but how will the frontend know to wait longer (say 45 seconds) when someone is moving a dish motor? that is a horribly long default timeout
08:50	Chutt	that's a special case.
08:50	dopester	can you do that without a message?
08:50	Chutt	you're fixing the symptoms, not the problem (ie, frontend hangs when the backend doesn't send data).
08:50	Chutt	as i said, that's a special case
08:51	Chutt	the backend can send a message saying that to increase the timeout.
08:51	dopester	its really no different than tuning to a station off the air jsut a longer timeout
08:51	Chutt	sure it is
08:51	Chutt	if the station's off the air, you're not going to get any data, unless you wait for it to come back on
08:51	dopester	how? the frontend asked to tune..
08:51	dopester	in a general sense the frontend shoudl know "hang on" or "give up"
08:51	Chutt	if the backend _knows_ it's going to be taking longer
08:51	Chutt	geez
08:52	Chutt	read what i'm writing, for once.
08:52	Chutt	fix the problem.
08:52	Chutt	the frontend hangs when it gets no data.
08:52	Chutt	that's a _frontend only_ problem.
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08:52	Chutt	once that's fixed, special cases can be added to make things even better.
08:53	Chutt	if you just add some messages from the backend, the frontend will _still_ hang if it stops receiving data
08:53	Chutt	and the bug's not fixed.
08:53	dopester	well i was just going to bypass the simple fix, but it can be done in phases
08:53	Chutt	right, you're trying to do it ass backwards.
08:54	Chutt	you fix bugs first, you don't work around them first.
08:54	dopester	it wasn't working around them.. you would have ot handle the different possible failures each a tad different, but i see what your getting at
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10:38	pete_	When I am watching LiveTV, if I hit the record button, it says 'Recording ""', and there are quite the mass of database errors. Anyohw know if there is a patch for this?
10:38	Chutt	nope.
10:39	pete_	I have unknown programs and such set to "unknown" in the config
10:39	pete_	from what I grasp, it should use "unknown" instead of ""
10:39	Tommck	when I am watching LiveTV and I'm behind (paused for a while) and then I hit the record button, it doesn't take the existing buffer... any patch for that? :)
10:39	Chutt	nope.
10:39	Tommck	lol
10:40	pete_	Chutt : are people aware of this bug? should I report it on some list?
10:40	pete_	no one in #mythtv-users seems to know of it
10:40	Chutt	nope.
10:40	Tommck	I am thinking about writing a plug-in to play DVDs from disk (not ripped or transcoded... just backed up)... anyone else find this useful to them?
10:41	Chutt	why would that be a plugin?
10:41	Chutt	and not part of mythvideo?
10:41	Tommck	Chutt - not sure
10:41	Tommck	Chutt - it could be a part of that... that was my original idea... just would have to figure out how to integrate it...
10:41	GreyFoxx	I've always wondered by MythDVD and Mythvideo weren't combined :)
10:42	GreyFoxx	with the added ability to playback from disk :)
10:42	Tommck	MythVideo uses file names... the DVDs would be whole directories
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10:42	pete_	Chutt: so, you are saying that one one is aware of this bug, but that I should not report it to anyone.. because no one cares about bugs in mythtv? Doesn't seem to be the case...
10:42	Chutt	you shouldn't report it like that, is what i'm saying
10:42	Tommck	pete - I think the second "nope" was for me
10:43	Chutt	'quite a mass of database errors' is utterly useless.
10:43	Tommck	Chutt - at least he said "database" :)
10:43	Tommck	better than "it doesn't work" :)
10:43	pete_	heh.. ok then, I'll post a 40 line bug report here, and say "anyone heard of this?"
10:44	pete_	otherwise, chutt becomes snippy
10:44	Chutt	why would it be 40 lines?
10:44	shodan	is there someone actually working on mythgame ? I got tired of it's lack of support for the emulators I want to I made a bunch of cute icons and a xml file to fit in place of mythgame and using helper bash script and advancemenu I'm getting something pretty good , but while I'm at it , I could give a hand to whoever is working with mythgame ( http://domn.net/Clipboard01.png )
10:44	Chutt	shodan, nope, no one's doing anything with it.
10:45	pete_	Chutt : so you can see the database errors. If you don't grok what's happening from its 'Recording ""' and database errors, then you want a lot more detail
10:45	GreyFoxx	shodan: That looks nifty
10:45	kvandivo	and copyright infringing
10:45	Chutt	pete, well, how can i know what's broken without seeing one of the actual errors?
10:45	Tommck	hehe.. yeah..
10:45	Chutt	notice i said 'one'
10:45	Chutt	meaning 'the first one'
10:46	pete_	Chutt : I think the "" value + database errors are a good clue.. but I'll paste one line here
10:46	Chutt	if they're a good clue, why don't you go fix it, then?
10:46	Tommck	pete - at worst, post the errors at pastebin
10:46	shodan	kvandivo, you can't respect copyright in this world , unless you live in a cave with no electricity
10:46	Tommck	shodan - huh?
10:46	Chutt	shodan, do you respect my copyright on mythtv?
10:46	pete_	Chutt : there is a difference between being able to do database work, and coding in C
10:46	Chutt	pete, no, not really.
10:47	pete_	Chutt : yes, yes really
10:47	Tommck	Chutt - I think there is :)
10:47	Chutt	if you can't fix the problem, then how do you know if it's a good clue or not?
10:47	Tommck	Chutt - I've met lotsa people I would trust to write a query that I wouldn't let near gcc :)
10:47	shodan	Chutt, yes , what I mean is that it is near impossible to not infrige on someone's copyright at some point ,even if one is careful about it
10:48	Tommck	shodan - I think that's a silly way to look at it
10:48	Tommck	I haven't infringed on copyrights, ever...
10:48	shodan	Tommck, yes but that's because the law is silly
10:48	shodan	Tommck, don't be so sure
10:48		* Tommck puts his tinfoil hat on
10:49	Tommck	shodan - being a little dramatic, aren't you?
10:49	pete_	Chutt : you're just being silly, for no apparent reason. Did I hurt your easily bruised ego? If so, I'm sorry. All I intended to do what come in and report a bug. You've been rude during the entire process. Not entirely sure why, as I came in quite politely
10:49	shodan	what you don't leave it on all the time ! ;)
10:49	Chutt	bugs without information annoy me.
10:49	shodan	Tommck, it's kvandivo's fault ;)
10:49	pete_	Chutt : I'm right HERE chutt. I can PROVIDE more information.
10:50	Tommck	pete - calm down... you'll get nowhere by getting upset.
10:50	pete_	Chutt : I'm not gonig to go on for half a dozen lines of text, only to find out that perhaps no one is even in the channel
10:50	Chutt	you haven't yet, so, i don't think you will.
10:50	Tommck	remember that this is a text-only communications medium... emotions don't convey well
10:50	Chutt	people that say that something's easy to fix when they can't do it themselves are dumb, really.
10:50	pete_	Chutt : I've spent the last 10 minutes responding to comments just like your last one ;)
10:50	Chutt	really?
10:50	Chutt	you type that slowly?
10:50	Chutt	<shrug>
10:51	pete_	heh, you're obviously a jackass ;)
10:51	Chutt	yup
10:51	pete_	enough time wasted
10:51	Tommck	FFS both of you quiet down :)
10:51	pete_	hopefully someone of value will appear here
10:51	Chutt	pete, i'm the only one who's going to be able to fix your problem.
10:51	Tommck	just get it over with and whip em out and compare.. ok? Just warn me... I don't want to see it
10:51	pete_	are you sure you won't have your hands up your ass instead?
10:51	Chutt	if you want it fixed, provide actual information
10:51	Chutt	if you don't, don't
10:52	Chutt	it's quite simple.
10:52	pete_	I'd be happy to, but I won't sit idly by and be insulted and treated poorly
10:52	Chutt	when did i insult you?
10:52	GreyFoxx	pete_: How about tis. Rather than try to "win" this current conversation, do up a comprehensive bug report (try to follow the guidlines in the mythtv.org docs as much as possible) and then email it to the mythtv-dev userslist :)
10:52	Chutt	or treat you poorly?
10:52	Tommck	GreyFoxx - good idea..
10:52	Tommck	then we don't have to read this pissing contest :)
10:53	pete_	geez guys, I don't see this as a pissing contest, or anyting to "win".. it's just a case of someone slapping me in the face, and me responding
10:53	Chutt	no one on the lists will fix the issue, either, aside from me
10:53	Chutt	how the fuck did i slap you in the face?
10:53	pete_	see, listen to the fuckwit
10:53	Chutt	i wrote the code in question
10:53		* kvandivo prepares for someone to op themselves.
10:53	Chutt	i'm probably the only one whose ever looked at it
10:53	Tommck	JESUS CHRIST... both of you stop insulting each other
10:53	pete_	I don't care what you wrote
10:53	Chutt	i _think_ that makes me the best one to fix the problem
10:53	Tommck	kvandivo - yeah... I've been waiting for a boot
10:54	Chutt	how the fuck am i insulting him?
10:54	pete_	I don't care if you wrote this entire project from the start, I just don't like to be treated like crap
10:54	Chutt	how am i treating you like crap?
10:54	Tommck	Chutt- good point... Pete - stop insulting him
10:54	Chutt	i really don't understand
10:54	shodan	troll alert!
10:54	Tommck	pete - think of it from his perspective... people come in here _constantly_ saying "this is broken"... he wants a full-on bug report...
10:54	pete_	ah, so easy. I'm a troll.. just because I respond to aggressive and rude behaviour
10:55	Tommck	pete - he was probably nice about it the first hundred times... but it gets old... ever work at a help desk?
10:55	Chutt	what was rude?
10:55	pete_	Chutt : scroll back!
10:55	Chutt	saying 'if you can't fix the problem, then how do you know what's relavant?'?
10:55	Chutt	was that rude?
10:55	Chutt	was saying that your initial 'report' was utterly useless rude?
10:56	pete_	Chutt : I can say to you "that's being rude" or "you're a fucking rude sack of shit!" ... one of them is a polite way to say soemthing, and another is quite rude
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10:56	pete_	my initial report was not a report... if was a short blurb to see if the problem had been reported
10:56	Chutt	seriously, what was rude or insulting about either of those?
10:56	Chutt	ok, so i guess saying 'no' was rude?
10:56	shodan	pete , I don't know if anyone was rude to you , but you have to understand that no one owes you anything as far as mythtv is concerned , being treated rudely is usually what you should expect when asking help for free anyway , or more likely that you will get ignored
10:57	pete_	shodan : no! That's utterly and totally incorrect. You should _never_ epxect to be treated rudely!
10:57	Chutt	how did i treat you rudely?
10:57	Tommck	shodan - gotta agree with that statement
10:58	Chutt	what did i say that was rude?
10:58	Tommck	Chutt - you were smug... that's as close as I can come to describe it. NOTHING as bad as what Pete has said ("fuckwit", "jackass", etc.)
10:58	Chutt	smug?
10:58	Chutt	about what?
10:58	pete_	Tommck : really? that if you are helpful to people, you should treat them rudely when you assist them? or that, perhaps, you should expect to be treated rudely whenever you walk up to someone and ask for help
10:58	Chutt	do you even know what 'smug' means?
10:58	Tommck	Chutt - well... very matter-of-fact..
10:58	shodan	pete_, maybe not at wallmart or mcdonalds , but if you notice , no one said "how may I help you" with a smile when you entered
10:58	Chutt	see, that's being rude
10:58	Tommck	Chutt - I'm not trying to insult...
10:59	GreyFoxx	shodan: hehe
10:59	Chutt	i am =)
10:59	Chutt	you're sounding like an idiot
10:59	Chutt	pete, please answer one of my last 4 or 5 questions.
10:59	Tommck	Chutt - seriously.. I'm on your side on this one.. was just giving a different perspective :)
10:59		* GreyFoxx does a whois on pete_ and suddenly understands....
10:59	pete_	shodan : I am not complaining about a lack of smile, heh
11:00	Tommck	here's some! :) :) :) :) :)
11:00		* GreyFoxx goes back to work having now been amused
11:00	Tommck	[Rodney King] Can't we all just get along? [/Rodney King]
11:00	shodan	"Did I do anything wrong today or has the world always been like this and I've been too wrapped up in myself to notice"
11:01	pete_	shodan : well, maybe Chutt will find out the answer to that one day
11:01	Chutt	oh well, guess i was right.
11:02	Chutt	<shrug>
11:02	Chutt	pete, enjoy your bug.
11:02	Tommck	Pete - you _continue_ to insult him.. are you as dumb as you sound?
11:02	Tommck	He really is the person that would fix what you're talking about... swallow some pride and play nice
11:02	Tommck	or go install Freevo or something
11:02	pete_	Tommck : it'll get fixed eventually... someone else will report the bug
11:03	Tommck	maybe
11:03	shodan	what's the problem anyway ?
11:03	Chutt	shodan, no one knows, except for pete
11:03	Tommck	unless it's unique to your set of installed apps
11:03	Chutt	and he's not sharing any information
11:03	Chutt	apparently, what he provided already was enough
11:04	Chutt	even though he doesn't know what the problem is, and so really can't judge that
11:04		* Tommck watches Chutt poke pete_ with a stick
11:05	pete_	Tommck : sure, he's doing a good job too.
11:05	pete_	Tommck : from the moment I walked in
11:05	Tommck	:)
11:05	Tommck	well... this whole conversation is completely useless to me anyway.
11:05	Tommck	this is supposed to be about development...
11:05	pete_	yup
11:05	Tommck	on that note: It's snowing like a bitch here
11:05	Tommck	:)
11:06	shodan	pete_, stop whining and spill the beans already , what -is- your problem in -details-
11:06	pete_	shodan : if you want more info than I provided, do you have
11:06	pete_	heh
11:06	Chutt	because this is the development channel, i expect _actual_ information here.
11:06	pete_	shodan : a pastebin or some such?
11:07	shodan	yes .
11:08	Chutt	uh, pastebin.com
11:09	pete_	shodan : ok, where do you prefer?
11:09	shodan	I said yes , as in yes , dump everything you think is relevant to your problem in a pastebin
11:10	pete_	shodan : do you have one I could use?
11:10	shodan	then when someone else comes you just point them to your pastebin
11:10	shodan	pastebin.com , what do you think I'm talking aboot ?
11:10	Chutt	apparently i'm being ignored.
11:10		* Tommck hands Chutt a tissue :)
11:11	pete_	shodan : I didn't know the url, I don't use them often
11:11	Tommck	pete - www.pastebin.com
11:11	---	Channel: mode/#mythtv [+o Chutt] by ChanServ
11:11	Tommck	LOL
11:11	---	!!!! pete_ was kicked from #mythtv by Chutt (Chutt)
11:11	---	---> pete_ [pete@d226-121-216.home.cgocable.net] has joined #mythtv
11:11	Tommck	dum da-dum-dum
11:11	shodan	chutt just said it ..
11:12	pete_	he's on ignore.. it's just better for the channel, when I'm here, if I'm not listening to him
11:12	pete_	apparently we aren't able to communicate
11:12	---	Channel: mode/#mythtv [+b !pete@*.home.cgocable.net] by Chutt
11:12	---	!!!! pete_ was kicked from #mythtv by Chutt (Chutt)
11:12	@Chutt	ok, then.
11:12	Tommck	:)
11:12	Tommck	hehe
11:12	GreyFoxx	heh
11:12	kvandivo	well.... _that_ took long enough
11:13	@Chutt	had to remember my nickserv password
11:13	shodan	I just don't believe that guy , is he born yesterday jeez !
11:13		* kvandivo throws back his head and cackles with insane glee.
11:13	shodan	do you always have to deal with people like that in here ?
11:13	@Chutt	yes
11:13	@Chutt	i generally don't have to ban them, though.
11:14	@Chutt	they either go away on their own, or start acting like they're not 3 anymore
11:14	Tommck	now he's talking about it with me in -users :)
11:14	@Chutt	ooh, i can ban him from there, too
11:15	@Chutt	should i?
11:15	@Chutt	i think i can, at least.
11:15	kvandivo	just ignore him. you've got better things to do on a monday morning, i'm sure
11:15	@Chutt	yeah, but this is fun
11:15	Tommck	Beirdo's in the convo too
11:16	@Chutt	beirdo, i have ops there, right?
11:16	GreyFoxx	Then do it. IRC is not a democracy, be a dictator. It helps get out the anger
11:16		* Chutt plans a drive-by banning
11:16	Tommck	LOL
11:16	Beirdo	I'm not sure, I think so. :)
11:16	GreyFoxx	haha
11:16	Beirdo	let me look
11:16	shodan	[11:16:05] shodan if you want your problem fixed , you needed that guy , he's the only one who knows mythtv enough , he wrote the damn thing , your next best hope to fix it is #mythtv-users , but don't bother without a properly filled bug report
11:16	shodan	[11:16:50] pete_ never mind, I'll download the sources, spend hours fixing the problem (even though it would take him 10 seconds), and not release my changes
11:16	shodan	[11:18:00] shodan you are perfectly in your rights to do so
11:16	Beirdo	yep, you do :)
11:17	shodan	what a jackass !
11:17	Tommck	he bailed
11:17	@Chutt	aww
11:17	GreyFoxx	Chutt: He left on his own heh
11:17	@Chutt	see?
11:17	@Chutt	most people do
11:17	Tommck	what a dickhead
11:17	GreyFoxx	Hehehe god, I get such a kick out of conflict it's insane
11:17	Tommck	[11:15] Tommck: pete_ you called hiim a jackass, a fuckwit... you were not being very diplomatic... and you went into a room about development with a "this is giving me errors" question, which is not enough info
11:17	GreyFoxx	Especially when the nicer you are the more it pisses them off
11:17	Tommck	[11:16] pete_: Tommck : I went into the channel, not room, asking if the bug had already been reported. The information I provided was enough to determine that
11:18	Tommck	he friggin nitpicks on me calling it a "room" instead of a "channel"... jerk off
11:18	Beirdo	nice colors
11:18	@Chutt	black on black
11:18	@Chutt	neato
11:18	GreyFoxx	hehe, all I see is black :)
11:18	Tommck	[11:15] Tommck: pete_ you called hiim a jackass, a fuckwit... you were not being very diplomatic... and you went into a room about development with a "this is giving me errors" question, which is not enough info
11:18	Tommck	[11:16] pete_: Tommck : I went into the channel, not room, asking if the bug had already been reported. The information I provided was enough to determine that
11:18	Tommck	sorry
11:18	Tommck	Trillian did that on me
11:18	Malinon	What a sad life he must leave
11:18	Beirdo	that's why -users is +c
11:19	Beirdo	ain't no color allowed :)
11:19	Tommck	+c?
11:19	Tommck	ahh.. cool
11:19	Malinon	Hey, Beirdo... thanks for your help the other day... I FINALLY have NUVEXPORT working the way I want it (mostly). And I feel a little less stupid than before ;-)
11:19	GreyFoxx	all you have to do is /whois pete_ and it becomes clear :)
11:19	Tommck	so... what do you think his new nickname will be when he comes back?
11:19	Beirdo	Malinon: no problem, but this should be on -users :)
11:19	Malinon	sorry
11:19	GreyFoxx	Tommck: UnderpantsGnome
11:19	Tommck	:)
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11:21	Beirdo	--- ChanServ gives channel operator status to Beirdo
11:21	Beirdo	--- Beirdo sets ban on !pete@*.home.cgocable.net
11:21	Beirdo	--- Beirdo removes channel operator status from Beirdo
11:21	Beirdo	muhahaha
11:21	@Chutt	bah
11:21	Tommck	:)
11:22	@Chutt	see, it's no fun if he's not there
11:22	GreyFoxx	You could always paste it to him in a privmsg with a nyah nyah
11:23	Beirdo	I'll give him a day or two to rethink his attitude then lift it :)
11:23	@Chutt	why?
11:23	GreyFoxx	By then he'll figure out all he has to do is change his username to bypass the ban heh
11:24	Beirdo	I don't think he wants to play those games, he will lose
11:24	Beirdo	nothing like an AUP complaint to change that behavior
11:25	GreyFoxx	heh
11:26	Tommck	AUP?
11:27	GreyFoxx	Acceptable Usage Policy
11:27	GreyFoxx	Or something similar
11:27	@Chutt	<shrug>
11:27	@Chutt	that's all just silly
11:27	GreyFoxx	Most ISP have a 10 commandments type policy for user behaviour
11:28	@Chutt	if he can act like an adult, he's welcome to be in this channel
11:28	Beirdo	yup. ;)
11:28	Tommck	Chutt - I think maybe he should send you some chocolates or something :)
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11:32	shodan	kvandivo. what did you think is copyright infringing about the little icons I made in particular ? (I know they are infringing copyright laws and trademark laws on many levels but I'm just curious what do you think is the worst about them ?)
11:33	@Chutt	shodan, generally, don't use other people's images in a theme, unless they've been distributed under a free license.
11:33	@Chutt	for your own use, of course, that's fine. =)
11:33	Icemaann	Beirdo: if your curious, nuvexport patches for mencoder/xvid are at http://mythtv.us
11:33	Icemaann	Beirdo: should apply to cvs. you will need mplayer 1.0preX for cutlists.
11:34	Beirdo	Thanks. let xris know
11:34	Icemaann	Beirdo: he knows ;-)
11:34	Beirdo	I don't have CVS access quite yet, so he'll need to commit
11:34	@Chutt	oh yeah
11:34	@Chutt	i was gone most of the weekend.
11:35	Beirdo	yeah, you need your weekends to relax anyways
11:35	_GeckoFiend	wow Chutt looks like your morning has been as fun as mine. cept my tard was live and in person
11:35	Icemaann	Beirdo: yea, xris is looking at it. if it passes I assume he will commit it
11:35	@Chutt	hah
11:35	@Chutt	always fun
11:35	@Chutt	actually, work so far this morning's been good =)
11:36	kvandivo	shodan: in particular, I was talking about the logos. those are highly protected. but chutts statement is totally kosher in a blanket sense
11:36	_GeckoFiend	all the art in the new blue that I added is GPLed.
11:37	GreyFoxx	Heh and if you ask for permission and they start to thing "emulator" they will likely refuse :). BUT if you can find versions that they have freely licensed for usage you could use those
11:37	shodan	kvandivo, wouldn't that be trademark infringing then ? or both ?
11:37	kvandivo	choose your legal term. bottom line, it couldn't be distributed
11:37	_GeckoFiend	though how GPL makes sense for art I have no idea
11:38	@Chutt	it doesn't =)
11:38	Beirdo	I was just wondering that myself
11:38	@Chutt	but people use it anyway
11:39	shodan	technically , neither should google or the (fan) websites I took them from distribute those, right ?
11:39	Tommck	better to use Creative Commons License, I think
11:39	Tommck	google's not distributing them
11:39	@Chutt	technically
11:40	Tommck	Google's not caching the images in it's search... they're still loaded from the original site
11:40	Tommck	I think thumbnails are for the "images.google.com" stuff
11:40	Tommck	but that's it
11:44	shodan	I'd says the cached thumbnails would still infrige on trademark, put then that's just pedantics .. I'll go back to making my cute copyright infriging icons :)
11:44	Tommck	shodan - :)
11:46	---	---> hadeees [~hadees@dsl001-130-101.aus1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #mythtv
11:49	robertm	Question is anyone having problems with mythtv cvs I am getting a lockup when I try to exit a video with esc. I am compiling the lastest cvs to confirm just checking if anyone else has seen it.
11:50	robertm	let me clearfy. No OS lockup the mythfrontend locks up and becomes unresponsive.
11:50	@Chutt	not seen that reported.
11:51	Beirdo	mine will occasionally segfault leaving a recording, but not hang
11:52	robertm	I pulled down the lastest and compiling with debug to get a bt now.
11:52	robertm	wasn't having this problem with either .16 or .17
11:53	@Chutt	i don't believe anything's changed since 17 that would cause that.
11:53	---	<<-- hadees [~hadees@hadees.sustaining.supporter.pdpc] has quit (Client Quit)
11:54	Beirdo	got 7 > 140MB coredumps to look at sometime when I have time
11:54	robertm	I see it on both front ends.
11:54	robertm	For me it is every time. I will have a bt and -v all as soon as the compile is finished.
11:58	@Chutt	cool.
11:59	---	---> gr8nash [~basketoju@mamabear.si-forest.com] has joined #mythtv
12:00	Beirdo	repeatable leads to easier debugging
12:01	mtjs	I get error "alsa-play: xrun of at least 20.596 msecs. resetting stream" if I do mplayer /dev/video0
12:01	mtjs	what can I do about that ?
12:01	@Chutt	ask the mplayer people?
12:01	@Chutt	this is the mythtv development channel, really has nothing to do with mplayer.
12:01	mtjs	doesn't mythtv uses mplayer for stuff ?
12:02	---	---> mecraw [~mecraw@69.2.235.2] has joined #mythtv
12:02	@Chutt	not for anything tv related
12:02	mtjs	... maybe someone knew... I'm searching for a solution for about 4 days now..
12:03	mtjs	what does mythtv uses for tv ?
12:03	Tommck	v4l, bttv, ivtv...
12:04	Beirdo	it has a builtin player
12:05	mtjs	isn't there a program I can use to just test the tv stream ?
12:05	mtjs	like mplayer /dev/video0
12:05	mtjs	to be sure that works ?
12:05	o_c	Chutt, did you see that site mirrorring the ml?
12:05	shodan	mtjs, tvtime , or xawtv/motv
12:06	---	User: *** o_c is now known as o_cee
12:06	Beirdo	mtjs: move back to -users where this belongs, please
12:07	mtjs	Beirdo: sorry :)
12:07	mtjs	shodan: it is a pvr 350, I've read tvtime doesn't work with ivtv
12:08	Tommck	mtjs - if it's a PVR, you can just to a cat /dev/videoX > file.mpg, right?
12:09	mtjs	Tommck: yes...
12:09	o_cee	ahem..
12:09	mtjs	Tommck: yet if I play the file in mplayer I get the alsa error...
12:09	o_cee	mtjs, Beirdo wasn't just kidding you know..
12:10		* Beirdo shakes his head. You might wanna listen...
12:10	Tommck	Beirdo - sorry
12:10	mtjs	:)
12:11	mtjs	Beirdo: I understand, yet struggling for 4 days and read every page where the problem is mentioned, ...
12:11	mtjs	I just can't use my mythtv box :(
12:11	o_cee	mtjs, we understand that, but you're using the wrong channel for it...
12:11		* Beirdo points at the topic
12:11	Tommck	mtjs - he just wants us to move to the #mythtv-users channel
12:12	mtjs	o_cee: I don't find the right channel for it ;)
12:12	Tommck	#mythtv-users
12:12	mtjs	Tommck: move move :)
12:12	o_cee	dammit, you ARE in the correct channel already, #mythtv-users !
12:12	Tommck	I'm already in -users too
12:12	mtjs	o_cee: ;)
12:13	mtjs	yet as I see it, the smart ppl are here and the dumb there ;)))
12:13	o_cee	mtjs, i can't, really, see what's funny.
12:13	Beirdo	well, mtjs, seems you are trying to rectify that.
12:13	mtjs	o_cee: maybe you mythtv box is also broken and that's why you can 't see..
12:13	Tommck	mtjs - you're going to get kicked/banned for this
12:13	---	<<-- Freud^ [~tommi@morpheus.ok.is] has quit ("Leaving")
12:14		* Tommck waits to see a "+o" ...
12:14	mtjs	Tommck: if that hapens, I will not mind... we are all just people...
12:14	Tommck	uh.. ok
12:16	mtjs	if I develop something for mythtv, can I then ask the question ?
12:16	shadash	no
12:16	Tommck	tick tock
12:16	shadash	;-)
12:16	mtjs	the main idea was to get a mythbox working and let the stagair ppl work in the code
12:16	mtjs	but we don't even get the box working :)
12:16	Tommck	mtjs - this is for _development_ questions...
12:17	shadash	mtjs: http://www.visualmediatech.com/news.php
12:17	mtjs	the box IS for development for mythtv
12:17	Tommck	mtjs - let me speak slower
12:17	Tommck	mtjs - This ... is... for ... development... questions....
12:17	mtjs	Tommck: can you do that ? :o
12:17	robertm	When running Current CVS with -v all and I exit out I get several of these what do they mean. Didn't them with .17 yesterday. 2005-02-28 12:13:26.555 16384 bytes free on soundcard
12:17	Tommck	mtjs - not questions about how to get the machine to work
12:17	mtjs	Tommck: I want to set up a mythtv box for development
12:18	Tommck	I'm going to stop talking to you here... talk in -users if you want to talk at all
12:18	Malinon	It's going to be one of those days...
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12:18	Tommck	Malinon - no shit
12:18	mtjs	shadash: thanx!
12:18	mtjs	Tommck: do you always take yourselves THAT seriously ?
12:19		* Tommck wishes he were an Op for once :)
12:19	mtjs	Tommck: that and a girlfriend is my guess
12:20	Beirdo	mtjs: move this to #mythtv-users or private messages before you really piss people off, this is not the right channel
12:20	mtjs	Beirdo: i get that.
12:20	mtjs	but now I'm doing ... small talk, no install questions anymore.
12:21	Tommck	LOL... you just don't get it
12:21	mtjs	:D
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12:24	o_cee	robertm, looks like a -v audio message
12:25	o_cee	Chutt, and yes, i gave you level 20 or 30 or whatever on #mythtv-users, so yes, you are able to ban/whatever in there.
12:25	Beirdo	Yeah, I confirmed it for him :)
12:27	---	---> beavis [~beavis@p50817FEC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #mythtv
12:28	o_cee	:)
12:29	robertm	o_cee ? you want me to rerun again just using -v audio message?
12:29	o_cee	robertm, you asked where the messages came from
12:33	robertm	I am guess it means something in the audio area. I have used atrpms up until now I bet I need to turn something on it settings.pro for sound. I turned on alsa lets see if that makes the problem go away.
12:35	o_cee	what makes you say it's a problem? it doesn't say anything's wrong?
12:36		* o_cee is gone
12:37	robertm	Because at that point the frontend stops responding and the only choice I have is to kill the task. I posted a bt on bugzilla with the output of -v all and bt full in the ticket. But based on that message I am recompling with alsa support.
12:37	@Chutt	it's not dead
12:38	@Chutt	it can't draw the osd
12:38	@Chutt	and it's waiting for a response to the end of playback message
12:38	@Chutt	so either your osd theme went away
12:38	@Chutt	or you've not got it installed properly
12:38	@Chutt	etc
12:38	@Chutt	if you fix that, it'll work
12:43	robertm	I am not sure how to fix that. Make install didn't report any errors. I see the theme fine. When I hit esc it stops what file should I be looking for then to confirm it copied fine? I am moving over to myth-users as based on your reply it looks like a compile/make install issue.
12:43	@Chutt	well, without the -v all, do you see any 'Couldn't open osd' or similar errors?
12:44	---	<<-- Hamsta [~Hamstaman@p508EAA3E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit (Remote closed the connection)
12:45	robertm	no
12:45	---	---> Hamsta [~Hamstaman@p508EAA3E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #mythtv
12:45	robertm	switch to theme blue and having the same thing.
12:45	@Chutt	osdtheme?
12:45	@Chutt	the ui theme's separate from the osd theme.
12:46	robertm	ok. this is my output I will check the osdtheme?
12:46	robertm	2005-02-28 12:44:43.851 Changing from None to WatchingPreRecorded
12:46	robertm	2005-02-28 12:44:43.852 The realtime priority setting is not enabled.
12:46	robertm	2005-02-28 12:44:43.871 Video timing method: DRM
12:46	robertm	couldn't find base dialog
12:47	@Chutt	heh
12:47	@Chutt	well, whichever osd theme you're using doesn't have stuff it needs.
12:47	@Chutt	what shows up when you hit 'i' during playback?
12:51	robertm	let me check.
12:54	robertm	Nothing comes up when I hit 'i'
12:54	tuxristo	robertm: FYI: the osd theme is one of the last screens in the playback options - it's not under appearance options like the ui theme is - make sure you tried changing the osd theme
12:54	robertm	ok where do I get the osd theme and select one from.
12:56	robertm	fixed thank you
12:57	robertm	now I can get to work on find out why my backend crash regularly. It started to crash when I added a slave backend and hasn't worked right since that is why I moved up to cvs
13:00	---	User: *** splat1 is now known as splAt1
13:02	---	User: *** splAt1 is now known as splat1
13:05	---	---> [shodan] [~shodan@216.113.99.134] has joined #mythtv
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13:07	GreyFoxx	Pale: It aids in mpeg decompression, requiring less CPU power
13:07	GreyFoxx	oops
13:08	@Chutt	what is xvmc!
13:08	@Chutt	jeopardy, right?
13:09	GreyFoxx	Hah yeah
13:21	Tommck	Anyone in here involved in MythVideo development?
13:22	@Chutt	it's pretty stale
13:22	@Chutt	thor + geckofiend have done a bit on it
13:23	Tommck	Chutt - I wanted to talk to someone who might know a bit about it so I can see how my DVD playing option would fit in
13:23	Tommck	DVD on disk, that is
13:24	Tommck	I guess I could also think about plugging that functionality into MythDVD, couldn't I?
13:24	@Chutt	mythvideo's more suited to selecting stuff to play.
13:24	Tommck	Chutt - yeah.. seems so
13:27	Tommck	Chutt - the only issue is that it's file-based... (it makes metadata objects based on files and their extensions.
13:28	@Chutt	doesn't always have to.
13:29	Tommck	Chutt - yeah, I know... been digging around in the code. I can change the original metadata read to see if something's a DVD..
13:29	Tommck	the question is... do I look for the "IFO" file and assume the directory's a DVD? Or do I have a ".thisisaDVD" file that is required in the directory?
13:30	Tommck	I'm trying to figure out the best approach
13:30	Tommck	I guess if I see a "VIDEO_TS" directory... that's be a good indicator
13:30	@Chutt	sure
13:30	Tommck	that's -=> that'd
13:30	Tommck	I think I'm going to work on that tonight... I'd love for that to work...
13:32	Tommck	another option would be to have a setting in MythVideo to "look for backed up DVDs in directory: " or something like that... that way you could have a sub-directory under the videos one for DVDs
13:32	Tommck	I think the VIDEO_TS is probably the best option so far... lets you arrange it however you like
13:33	Tommck	what do you think?
13:33	@Chutt	i don't care
13:34	Tommck	Chutt - thanks for your candor :)
13:46	robertm	Alright any one want to help my figuire out why my backend keeps sig faulting. It has been happening since I added in a slave under .17 and still happening with CVS. I have a BT ready. I will added it to bugzilla if no one wants to look at it now.
13:47	robertm	didn't sig fault under .16 or .17 until I added a slave system then started under .17
14:02	Beirdo	are avalanche's changes and repercussions pretty much done?
14:02	@Chutt	yup
14:03	@Chutt	unless people find any bugs
14:03	Beirdo	cool. I didn't want to check out mid-overhaul :)
14:06	Tommck	so it's pretty stable now?
14:06	Tommck	glad to hear that
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14:09	robertm	tommck I am having a sig fault with CVS can you help me with it.
14:09	Tommck	robertm - probably not... don't know that much... I've just started dabbling in it myself
14:09	Tommck	(actually.. the backend crashes on me about once a day too :) )
14:10	robertm	any idea why?
14:10	Tommck	nope... haven't dealt with it yet..
14:10	Tommck	I'm gonna have another try at figuring it out soon, but don't have the time right now
14:10	Tommck	I just run it in a loop script right now
14:11	---	---> BWGames [BWGames@zen-gw.tehlan.co.uk] has joined #mythtv
14:11	robertm	that is why I moved up to CVS to try and find out why and see if someone can help get the sig fault fixed.
14:11	Tommck	by the way, it's a "seg fault"
14:14	Beirdo	short for "segmentation fault"
14:17	beavis	Chutt, why there are no commits from you? no time or are you just waiting until avalache's ready?
14:20	---	<<-- BlurredWe [~foo@c-24-9-113-38.client.comcast.net] has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out))
14:22	---	<<-- mecraw [~mecraw@69.2.235.2] has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer))
14:22	---	---> BlackHussar [~chatzilla@corp.stamps.com] has joined #mythtv
14:23	robertm	I never said I could type
14:23	robertm	or spell
14:23	---	User: *** hadeees is now known as hadees
14:29	_GeckoFiend	beavis chutt broke all ten fingers and must now type with a pencil in his teeth. makes writing code very difficult
14:30		* Tommck types with his Schlong when that happens