TheGrebs.com:IRC Logs:#mythtv:2003:03:27

13:57	--> You	are now talking on #mythtv
13:57	-!-	Topic for #mythtv is http://www.mythtv.org/
13:57	-!-	Topic for #mythtv set by Viddy at Sun Mar 9 06:04:45
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15:02	<nziarek>	i like the transparent darkened background...but I don't know if I like the background image on the Popup box....seems too busy
15:04	<moegreen>	nziarek: what you prefer be there?
15:06	<nziarek>	well, i've been making mine just solids in the mock ups.
15:07	<nziarek>	but, it's your barbeque. not trying to nit pick or anything :)
15:08	<moegreen>	Well you seem to be the graphics guy :) Which color though?
15:10	<nziarek>	for Iulius I would use a darker blue, like one from the "strips" on the background.
15:10	<moegreen>	i guess that could be defined in the theme
15:10	<nziarek>	that was my next question.
15:11	<moegreen>	what rgb is that? I'll put it in there and get a screenshot to see what it looks like
15:11	<nziarek>	lemme see
15:13	<nziarek>	4-35-58 or 3-39-68 if the first is too dark
15:15	<nziarek>	but, i've also been adding the pure white border on it, so that differentiates it from the shading. I don't know...in a perfect world we could do all of our designing in photoshop and click "apply" =)
15:16	<moegreen>	http://www.untzuntz.com/mythtv/testing/popup-solidbg.jpg
15:16	<moegreen>	that's with the first colorset
15:16	<Bonkers>	I think that's a bit dark
15:17	<Bonkers>	I love the new program chooser though
15:17	<moegreen>	Bonkers: which part, the popup box or the background covering?
15:17	<Bonkers>	now that you meantion it, maybe a little of both
15:18	<Bonkers>	but the popup background is more the problem
15:18	<Bonkers>	too much contrast between the different blues
15:19	<moegreen>	http://www.untzuntz.com/mythtv/testing/popup-solidbg2.jpg
15:19	<moegreen>	i'll change the background cover to 40% instead of the 60% it's at now
15:20	<moegreen>	and see what that looks like
15:20	<nziarek>	the border that is on the pop up window: anyway to change it to a 2-3 pixel wide pure white border
15:21	<nziarek>	not the biggest fan of the bevel; reminds me of Windows
15:22	<moegreen>	http://doc.trolltech.com/3.0/qframe.html#picture
15:22	<moegreen>	are the different types
15:22	<Bonkers>	what's the difference between the first and second pick? they look identical here
15:23	<moegreen>	Bonkers: the popup box is slightly lighter
15:24	<Bonkers>	oh, i see it now
15:25	<moegreen>	ok, replace the 2 with a 3 --- this has a 40% transparent background
15:26	<Bonkers>	I think even the background of the popup is even a bit lighter, maybe about 3x the previous change, that will look good
15:26	<Bonkers>	you almost can't tell the popup is seperate from the background on the right side right now
15:27	<Bonkers>	anyway, I think as long as you leave it themeable, don't worry about it too much, plenty of people with a better design sense than me out there
15:27	<moegreen>	true, they are both pretty dark
15:27	<moegreen>	well...gotta go - i'll be sure to mess around with this later
15:29	<Bonkers>	cya
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15:43	<nziarek>	bonkers - have youn seen these? http://www.ziarek.com/mythtv/liquid-to-iulius.asp?
15:44	<nziarek>	they are my mockups for the popup box (among other things)...what do you think? if we can get those solid, then moe will have something to work towards
15:44	<Bonkers>	no, looks really nice though
15:45	<nziarek>	thanks - color wise and attention/clutter wise, how do the dark and light colors work?
15:45	<Bonkers>	on the video editor, i Think the lines in the actual band should be slightly darker than the border, looks kinda odd how it is right now
15:46	<Bonkers>	and that font used for "weather - current conditions" in mythweather could probably be chagned to somethign a little more
15:46	<nziarek>	so the white border lines should be darker than the red green and blue video lines?
15:46	<Bonkers>	"professional looking"
15:47	<Bonkers>	the lines in between the red/green whatever should be darker than the border around the whole thing
15:47	<Bonkers>	or at least somehow seperated
15:48	<nziarek>	i see...actually i was going to remove them altogether and just keep the border line
15:48	<Bonkers>	oh, that would be fine too
15:48	<Bonkers>	anything to set them apart from the border
15:48	<nziarek>	that is one of my first mockups, so it kind of got left behind :)
15:48	<nziarek>	gotcha
15:49	<Bonkers>	the popup is nicer looking than what is there now, but I think especially when there are 2 options, it's very confusing when the only indication of which is selected is the color, maybe a box around it or something
15:49	<nziarek>	i've thought about that, too...i was thinking an arrow in front of it "> this option"
15:50	<nziarek>	these are good suggestions, thanks (and keep 'em coming :)
15:52	<Bonkers>	I think some indication of how much space is left other than % in the pie graph would be nice too, maybe even a rough calculation of how much time in hours is left based on average size of recordings would be nice, pretty easy to code up I'd imagine
15:54	<Bonkers>	and I think I've run out of suggestions for now
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15:59	<nziarek>	the space left idea is good. I've considered it, but don't know enough about it all to know if they could get a reasonable estimate with the new recording profiles (since every show can be recorded at a different rate)
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16:01	<Bonkers>	oh, that would be tough I guess, well at least an amount of diskspace would be nice, I Think I can judge better from that than from a %
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16:02	<nziarek>	i think i agree.
16:02	<nziarek>	i was going for all pretty
16:02	<nziarek>	let the function slip away :)
16:04	<Bonkers>	heh, or at leats an option for either
16:09	<nziarek>	Bonkers - i don't like the color, but what do you think about the idea of the delete screen now? http://www.ziarek.com/mythtv/images/liquid-to-iulius/myth_tv_delete_confirmation.png
16:10	<Bonkers>	is that just a wording change?
16:10	<nziarek>	no...i added the check in front of the current selection
16:11	<Bonkers>	I still think the "It will be gone forever" is a bit humorous/harsh, I think most peopel realize what deleting means
16:11	<Bonkers>	did you send me the wrong one? there's nothing in that shot
16:11	<nziarek>	try reloading, it is the same name as before: here it is again, though: http://www.ziarek.com/mythtv/images/liquid-to-iulius/myth_tv_delete_confirmation.png
16:12	<Bonkers>	stupid cache, ya, that's nice
16:12	<nziarek>	the check (or whatever I can find, the check was easy) clears up your selection, then?
16:13	<nziarek>	I think I like the wording a bit more too...the "removed forever" thing was supposed to be slightly humorous, but it can be removed
16:13	<Bonkers>	ya, that's much better, I've always been annoyed with the menus where you can't even tell what you're selecting
16:14	<Bonkers>	I think there's i8n support so we could always make another "language" with different wording for taste
16:15	<nziarek>	yeah, like "like to be yelled at" and "don't yell at me"
16:16	<Bonkers>	heh
16:17	<Bonkers>	or "emotionally stable" and "emotionally unstable"
16:17	<Bonkers>	we could do the google swedish chefian and pig latin and elmur fuddian too
16:18	<nziarek>	that might be cool to tie those into the themes :)
16:18	<nziarek>	the elmer fudd theme changes all of the wording ! ah!
16:22	<foom>	heh damn open source projects always have too many options. :P
16:22	<Bonkers>	haha
16:22	<Bonkers>	we could add another option like xine has where you choose your option level
16:22	<Bonkers>	like beginner, medium, advanced, master of the known universe
16:23	<foom>	just make the default right and you don't need no stinkin options. :)
16:25	<PeteCool>	nziarek: the latest URL you posted is very very good
16:30	<PeteCool>	nziarek: how did you get this ease with UI's? Simply messing around? Or did you take a class or something?
16:38	<PeteCool>	nziarek: nice weather screens, too
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16:55	<Timon>	woot
16:59	<nziarek>	PeteCool - I just play.
16:59	<nziarek>	and, not to be cocky, but I like these ideas
17:00	<mdz_>	Timon: wtf is "woot"?
17:00	<Timon>	hahaha :-)
17:01	<nziarek>	and having one idea made it easier to keep going with it...
17:01	<Timon>	mdz_ , Umm, hard to explain. its kinda like an expression.
17:02	<nziarek>	also, i don't know if you saw this: http://www.ziarek.com/mythtv/liquid-to-iulius.asp, but it where I am putting my newest ideas with thier Myth counterparts.
17:03	<Timon>	nziarek, I saw your stuff today/last night. Good ideas! Its good to have someone who's good with graphics on the project!
17:04	<PeteCool>	nziarek: did you get someone to do your osd changes?
17:04	<nziarek>	Timon: thanks
17:04	<mdz_>	Timon: it wasn't the sort of question meant to solicit an answer, more the kind of question that says "please stop it"
17:05	<nziarek>	PeteCool: no, not that I know of. They've been working on the playback box and popups UI related
17:05	<Timon>	mdz_: Umm, ok :-)
17:06	<nziarek>	from what I know...i am not quite in the "inner circle" :)
17:06	<Chutt>	that osd isn't really possible
17:06	<Chutt>	at least without incurring a cpu penalty
17:06	<nziarek>	why? what should I consider while creating it?
17:06	<Chutt>	there's too much "fine" detail
17:07	<Chutt>	consider that people are running things at 320x240 =)
17:08	<Bonkers>	make it selectable then, I got CPU to waste and I run 1600x1200
17:08	<Chutt>	no, you don't
17:08	<Chutt>	i really doubt that you can record video at 1600x1200
17:08	<nziarek>	would removing the outer glow help, or do the rounded edges, etc, all hurt it?
17:08	<Chutt>	the osd is drawn into the video
17:08	<Bonkers>	no, I don't, I record at 640x480, but my screen resolution is 1600x1200
17:08	<PeteCool>	Chutt: those too slow cpu could use the current osd style
17:08	<Chutt>	not to screen res
17:09	<Bonkers>	you sure?
17:09	<Chutt>	petecool, you're willing to maintain two sets of code?
17:09	<Bonkers>	I can pretty shart text in edit mode and stuff
17:09	<Timon>	set timestamp on
17:09	<Chutt>	bonkers, i wrote the damn thing, i'm sure
17:09	<Bonkers>	heh
17:09	<Bonkers>	is it possible to blit the OSD post software-scaling?
17:09	<Bonkers>	maybe even with a "video filter"
17:09	<PeteCool>	Chutt: nope...
17:10	<Chutt>	it doesn't software scale
17:10	<Chutt>	that's the whole point :p
17:10	<PeteCool>	Chutt: it's just a bitmap "pasted" to XV output?
17:10	<Chutt>	yup
17:10	<Bonkers>	oh, hrm
17:10	<Bonkers>	that is kinda tough then
17:11	<Chutt>	yup.
17:11	<Chutt>	if people are willing to have a fairly large cpu hit, i can do stuff like that
17:11	<foom>	well if you used opengl you could use it to draw the scaled video and put another texture over it.
17:11	<Chutt>	scale to a decent res, convert to rgb
17:11	<foom>	assuming everyone uses video cards that support 3d. ;)
17:12	<PeteCool>	if (resolution < somethingsmall) { use low-res bitmap } else { use nathan stuff } ... but that might be a bad solution?
17:12	<Chutt>	foom, exactly
17:12	<Chutt>	i don't really want to maintain two sets of osd code
17:13	<foom>	so i'm not too familiar with this, what's doing the scaling right now?
17:13	<Bonkers>	the 3d option would be nice for systems such as mine, it would have no problem with that
17:13	<PeteCool>	Chutt: give me a few months and I could ... when school is out I can finally use to my time to actually learn things
17:13	<Chutt>	the video card
17:13	<thor_>	Chutt, couldn't you convert the output to ASCII (via sdl?) and have that scale to mutli-panel displays?
17:14	<Chutt>	heh
17:14	<foom>	ascii? wtf?
17:14	<Chutt>	thor's being sarcastic :p
17:14	<thor_>	wee bit of humour
17:14	<foom>	so video cards have 2d scaling operations?
17:14	<foom>	i thought the 2d operations on video cards were pretty much limited to basic pixel drawing
17:14	<Chutt>	foom, that's what xv is an interface to
17:15	<foom>	wow the things you never knew. :)
17:15	<Bonkers>	mplayer supports ascii playback with aalib, why shouldn't myth? ;)
17:16	<thor_>	I'll only watch aalib-ASCII if they don't uses the characters r, q, and e (boy, I hate that last one)
17:16	<Bonkers>	heh
17:16	<Bonkers>	multiple brightness ascii with highish 1024x768 res and a small font is quite nice
17:17	<thor_>	... sorry ... I'm in a bit of a frivilous mood (friday)
17:17	<foom>	you mean like a 1x1 font?
17:17	<Bonkers>	hahahaha, no
17:18	<thor_>	Chutt, next mythmusic goal is Map's to presort all data on load from db and keeping my eye on GUI changes. Anything else on your wish list?
17:18	<Chutt>	not really, no
17:19	<thor_>	Maybe finally finish the LCD stuff, and then start paying attention to MythWeb again (hmmm ... edit music playlists via php ... )
17:20	<Bonkers>	completion of the conflict resolution would be nice in mythweb
17:20	<Bonkers>	maybe I'll do that if I have time
17:20	<rkulagow>	chutt: can you please sync the website with cvs docs?
17:20	<Chutt>	yeah
17:20	<Chutt>	sec
17:20	<foom>	mythweb is really cool, i like the IMDB links
17:20	<Bonkers>	mythweb doesn't happen to pick up any movies with my listings
17:21	<foom>	i wish the myth frontend had a 'movies' mode too
17:21	<thor_>	Bonkers, not even on the main listings page?
17:21	<Bonkers>	oh wow, I swear it didn't yesterdya
17:21	<Bonkers>	it's got like 100 today
17:22	<PeteCool>	yeah, there could be another EPG mode, movies... would be useful
17:22	<Bonkers>	apparnetly there are only movies on friday though
17:22	<Chutt>	rkulagow, done
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17:29	<nziarek>	Chutt: I am not quite sure what the above means for the OSD; if I get rid of the outerglow that overlaps the video, will that fix it? or is the rounding, etc also going to cause problems?
17:30	<vektor>	You're working on osd stuff?
17:30	<Chutt>	just resize it down to 320x240 and see if it's still useable, really
17:30	<foom>	i think it's mostly the small font sizes you'll have a problem with..
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17:31	<Chutt>	oops
17:31	<vektor>	Ah, talk of compositing an OSD onto a scaled XVideo surface.
17:31	<PeteCool>	Chutt: maybe myth could report the playback resolution to the osd code, and depending on the resolution, use different details (drop some at lower res) and font sizes?
17:31	<PeteCool>	could be a mess though
17:31	<vektor>	Not worth doing really, if you do sub-pixel correct text, you can draw text to a 320x480 buffer and still have it look good scaled up.
17:32	<Chutt>	vektor, need code :p
17:32	<vektor>	Chutt: I know, sorry :)
17:32	<vektor>	Chutt: Grab CVS tvtime and try running 'tvtime -I 200' and see how you can still read the text now :)
17:33	<Chutt>	sourceforge's cvs stuff seems to be downish
17:33	<Chutt>	at least for anon connections
17:34	<vektor>	fuckers
17:34	<nziarek>	are small fonts even readable at 320x240...i just took the iamge, shrunk it to 320x240 and then blew it up to 800x600 and nothing is really readable
17:35	<nziarek>	and the OSD looks awful.
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17:36	<Chutt>	vektor, seems to work, now
17:36	<Timon>	Just looked at the music module, I dig having the progress bar when its indexing my collection
17:36	<Chutt>	doncha love sf
17:37	<Chutt>	vektor, i don't have a recent enough autocrap to compile :p
17:37	<vektor>	Chutt: fuck eh.
17:38	<vektor>	Chutt: Would you like me to 'make dist' for you? :)
17:38	<Chutt>	naw, i'll do it
17:38	<foom>	you don't have 'autoconf2.50' or something?
17:38	<Chutt>	i've got things configured here to use older stuff
17:39	<vektor>	foom: I don't see a need to bend over backwords to support old versions of autoconf if just people developing my app will ever see it.
17:39	<vektor>	I like to keep my CVS versions broken, so, it's not worth using old tools.
17:39	<foom>	isn't 2.5 the latest version?
17:40	<foom>	i was just saying - on my system i have an 'autoconf2.13' and a 'autoconf2.50' executable
17:40	<foom>	since they're conveniently incompatible...mutter...
17:41	<vektor>	nziarek: How did you shrink the image?
17:41	<Chutt>	vektor, you're not offsetting the drop shadow properly at -I 200
17:41	<Chutt>	or whatever
17:42	<vektor>	Chutt: I know, that's an open bug.
17:42	<vektor>	Chutt: But check out how much the subpixel positioning and kerning helps.
17:42	<Chutt>	stuff's mostly readable
17:42	<nziarek>	vektor: just shrunk the entire mockup i had.
17:42	<vektor>	Yep, even at ridiculously low resolutions.
17:42	<vektor>	nziarek: Using what tool?
17:42	<Chutt>	capital Ns are very blurry
17:42	<vektor>	nziarek: Image resampling is incredibly easy to do poorly.
17:42	<nziarek>	vektor: photoshop
17:42	<vektor>	nziarek: Yeah, well, don't trust it.
17:43	<nziarek>	don't trust photoshop! it is my life!
17:43	<Chutt>	there
17:43	<Chutt>	basically doubled the speed of the menus
17:43	<vektor>	nziarek: a) photoshop resize isn't gamma correct, b) photoshop doesn't default to bicubic I don't think, c) bicubic sucks anyway
17:43	<Chutt>	people can stop bitching about how i shouldn't be using qt now
17:43	<vektor>	Chutt: How did you do it?
17:44	<Chutt>	reduced the amount of stuff it's drawing
17:44	<vektor>	ok
17:45	<Bonkers>	Chutt: is it possible to get better OSD display with vector graphics or does Xv not support anything like that?
17:45	<nziarek>	vektor: photoshop does default to bicubic, it also has bilinear and nearest neighbor (that's bad!)
17:45	<nziarek>	i know nothing about the gamma correctness of it.
17:46	<vektor>	Glad to hear it defaults to bicubic, but I know from my own tests it's not gamma correct. :)
17:46	<vektor>	Chutt: which, btw, insanely helps text rendering (gamma correctness). it's incredible.
17:46	<vektor>	Chutt: i have a test app here which shows that, i'll send it to you sometime.
17:46	<vektor>	anyway, time to go home.
17:46	<vektor>	Bonkers: you don't understand what a hardware overlay surface is :)
17:47	<Timon>	Question about mythmusic. When it extracts the ID3 info, does it use ID3 v1 or v2? Or will it use either?
17:47	<Chutt>	either
17:47	<Timon>	Which does it default to? v2?
17:48	<Chutt>	whichever has more information, i believe
17:48	<Timon>	ok, coo
17:48	<Chutt>	not quite sure, seeing as i don't use mp3s
17:48	<Bonkers>	vektor: I do, I was just hoping that it might have some such support
17:49	<foom>	well you can do vector graphics as long as you don't mind drawing them into the lowres pixmap. :)
17:51	<Chutt>	really, i can do higher quality osds as long as people are willing to live with the cpu hit
17:51	<foom>	not worth it for me at least, since i plan to run it on a TV with as slow a processor speed as i can get away with
17:52	<Chutt>	like that link that merle reine posted the other day
17:52	<Chutt>	they're converting everything to rgb, then drawing the osd
17:54	<foom>	although it would be nice if the EPG could be a translucent overlay. :)
17:55	<foom>	so how bad is driver support for opengl these days anyways? still no free nvidia support?
17:56	<Bonkers>	what difference does it make if it's free or not?
17:56	<Bonkers>	it can't be free because of legal issues
17:57	<Bonkers>	it still works damn welll
17:58	<foom>	if every card that people use supports opengl it would be cool to do it that way.
17:59	<foom>	i don't know about the relative support for Xv vs. opengl though
17:59	<nziarek>	well, i just don't want flash and such to take over substance; if there is something I can do to tone down the OSD I have now, i will
17:59	<Chutt>	does opengl do yuv textures?
17:59	<Timon>	?: Is there a quick key to press in mythmusic to goto the next/previous song?
17:59	<Chutt>	nziarek, really, just make it bigger =)
17:59	<Chutt>	and stuff should work
17:59	<Chutt>	nziarek, i want to work on the OSD sometime soon
17:59	<foom>	i think it does - but i'm no expert
17:59	<Chutt>	so, we'll see exactly what's possible
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18:01	<Ndiin>	Timon: Up/Down..
18:01	<Timon>	Ndiin, thanks!
18:01	<foom>	GL_APPLE_ycbcr_422 - Provides support for 2vuy and 2yuvs texture formats. Renderers: Rage 128 Mobility, Rage 128, Radeon, Radeon Mobility, Radeon 7500 Mobility, Radeon 8500, Radeon 9000 Pro, GeForce 2MX, GeForce 4MX, GeForce 3, GeForce 4
18:01	<foom>	(that's for OSX)
18:01	<Timon>	Ndiin: doesn't seem to work
18:01	<nziarek>	Chutt: as you work on the code, if you'd like some grpahics to test, let me know.
18:02	<Ndiin>	Timon: None of the shortcut keys work if you have keyboardaccelerators set to 0 in mythmusic-settings.txt
18:02	<foom>	I assume apple just integrated some vendor-specific extensions for ATI and NV cards into one extension there
18:02	<moegreen>	nziarek: did you the last screenshot, with the 40% transparent background?
18:03	<Timon>	Ndiin: Ahh, thanks! Didn't know about that option.
18:03	<nziarek>	moegreen: no, i didn't see that one
18:04	<moegreen>	it's the same link, but it's solidbg3.png instead of 2
18:06	<moegreen>	and i've got your white box around it now :)
18:06	<moegreen>	just not in a screenshot
18:07	<moegreen>	Chutt: I've set the function that covers up the background to use the pixmap if the user has the transparent boxes option set, and to use the other method if not
18:08	<foom>	hm looks like mplayer supports opengl output
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18:12	<PeteCool>	moegreen: could you send me your kernel .config please?
18:14	<Timon>	Chutt: would you apply a patch for mythmusic if tell it to not show "repeat, shuffle, visualize, etc" if keyboardaccelerators=1?
18:15	-!-	r1ckt3r [~rickter@pixout.appriss.com] has joined #mythtv
18:16	<moegreen>	it's on it's way
18:16	<nziarek>	moegreen: i think bonkers will disagree, but i liked it darker. =)
18:17	<moegreen>	looking at it now, i do too - the 40% shows too much
18:17	<PeteCool>	moegreen: thanks
18:18	<moegreen>	nziarek: are you running cvs now?
18:18	<PeteCool>	nziarek: did you get to look at the "prompt on playback exit" window/popup?
18:19	<nziarek>	moegreen: a day ago or so - before Popups. i am going to do that when I get home (well, after the basketball games!)
18:19	<nziarek>	PeteCool: no, i haven't...i just enabled it, but didn't have any recordings yet :)
18:19	* bigguy	is [away -={ afk till after 10pm CST }=- ]
18:21	<PeteCool>	moegreen: any particular reason to use hotplug?
18:21	<nziarek>	moegreen: i think the original (solidbg.jpg) might be the best
18:21	<moegreen>	PeteCool: what is that? Probably not then huh?
18:22	<PeteCool>	nziarek: the last transparent png one I like better
18:22	<nziarek>	there is solid, solid2 and solid3
18:22	<nziarek>	which one do you like?
18:23	<Bonkers>	heh, choose wathever you'd like, a change like that is easy enough to do myself ;)
18:23	<moegreen>	fortunately, i will be working on the theme code in a few seconds - so this will all go away :)
18:25	<PeteCool>	nziarek: I like solidbg2 best out of the three
18:25	<vektor>	hi
18:25	<PeteCool>	lol, the simpsons have dopey eyes :)
18:25	<vektor>	opengl does do y'cbcr textures, fun stuff.
18:26	<nziarek>	moegreen: perhaps not now, but what do you think about updating the text so it isn't so technical? Something more like "You are about to delete "The Simpsons - Treehouse of horror X". Are you sure?
18:26	<nziarek>	PeteCool: it is a toss up...i am fine with 2
18:27	<moegreen>	Interesting - it's certainly easy to do
18:28	<moegreen>	are you suggesting to remove the date/time and description then?
18:29	<nziarek>	yeah, i personally would. my reason is that I selected it and then asked to delete it. I already know the specifics of the show, I just want a confirmation.
18:29	<nziarek>	not a recap of what I just seleted...does that make sens?
18:30	<moegreen>	it makes sense
18:32	<nziarek>	it is purly cosmetic, but maybe it is easier to update now (if you agree) than later.
18:32	<mdz>	anyone else's zap2it channel lineup broken?
18:33	<mdz>	they swapped out several channels that I do receive, for channels that I do not
18:34	<moegreen>	mdz: everything looks good here
18:36	<Chutt>	can people update cvs and see if the main menus are quicker?
18:37	<Chutt>	need to do a distclean, at least in the mythfrontend/ subdir
18:38	<-- nziarek	has quit ()
18:38	<mdz>	it broke on both tvlistings and tvlistings2 at the same time
18:38	<mdz>	like they think my channel lineup has changed when it hasn't
18:38	<mdz>	why oh why can't I buy listings
18:39	<Chutt>	heh
18:39	-!-	JonnyRo [] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
18:41	<Chutt>	i also made it exit directly after giving that error about not being able to open the output file
18:41	<Chutt>	no more bitching about how it segfaults a couple lines of text later
18:41	<mdz>	heh
18:42	<mdz>	instead there will be bitching about how it exits
18:42	<Chutt>	of course
18:43	<moegreen>	Chutt/nziarek: Someone had suggested that the Watch/Delete recordings should start on the right-hand side (already selected All Programs) ... any thoughts?
18:45	<Chutt>	doesn't matter to me
18:46	<Chutt>	ever figure out that centering problem?
18:46	<PeteCool>	actually I prefer it like it is now
18:47	<PeteCool>	moegreen: but, I'd like it that if you're in the left section, p/d/enter/space don't have an effect (if that's possible and you think it's useful) - I nearly deleted a show more than once
18:47	<moegreen>	Chutt: i've got it centering now. I've set the height of the popupbox manually. It was thinking that the QLabel w/ the 8 lines of text had a height of 30
18:48	<Chutt>	heh, cool.
18:48	<moegreen>	PeteCool: that makes sense, but do you find yourself repeatedly hitting enter? jk
18:48	<Chutt>	how are you setting the height?
18:48	<Chutt>	just giving it a number, or..
18:48	<moegreen>	Chutt: i've got it setting to a percentage of the total height. I've also split up that one
18:48	<PeteCool>	moegreen: sometimes, when it's lagging ( I know I shouldn't.... but say, my mom, would do it lots)
18:49	<moegreen>	qlabel into several
18:49	<PeteCool>	moegreen: not that it's slow, but if you don't know how the thing works, you could think it didn't grab the keypress
18:49	<PeteCool>	moegreen: but that's minor, anyway
18:50	<moegreen>	Chutt: I see that in gContext I can get a theme's directory, but is there a function that returns the current theme name?
18:53	<mdz>	ah, my cable provider's website lists the same wrong channel
18:53	<mdz>	looks like maybe they're changing the lineup
18:53	<mdz>	getting rid of one of about 3 channels we actually watch
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19:14	<Chutt>	moegreen, the Theme setting is the curren theme name
19:15	<moegreen>	Chutt: yeah, I found that, thanks
19:25	-!-	hfb [~hbarrett@lsanca1-ar2-4-60-005-210.lsanca1.dsl-verizon.net] has joined #mythtv
19:25	<PeteCool>	can I use HDTV modelines with a regular TV (they have those wacky resolutions which could help me fill the TV screen with being just too big to fit all in)
19:27	<moegreen>	PeteCool: what are you trying to accomplish?
19:29	<PeteCool>	moegreen: my gf2mx has the wrong (crappy hardcoded) tv-out encoder, if I play with nvtv and different X resolutions, I might be able to have the picture fill most of the screen without "overthrowing" (picture being just too big to fit on the screen)
19:30	<vektor>	PeteCool: Televisions in north america are 486 scanlines per frame, and usually have about 8% of the image in the overscan: that overscan image is normal, expected, and correct.
19:31	<vektor>	PeteCool: You will never be able to get a standard television to run at more than 486 scanlines, so you can forget about getting HDTV resolutions that way.
19:31	<PeteCool>	vektor: the image here either is one inch too small on each side, or one inch too big
19:31	<vektor>	PeteCool: Explain 'too big', it's likely supposd to be that way.
19:31	<PeteCool>	I know it won't look better, I just want to get rid of the black borders
19:32	<vektor>	Explain the 'too big' problem.
19:32	<PeteCool>	vektor: when using the Sasquatch theme, the W from "Watch TV" is half out the screen border
19:33	<vektor>	It's probably not rendering taking account the overscan.
19:33	<vektor>	Safe title area is 10% of the image in on all borders.
19:34	<vektor>	So, text should not be written above scanline 48
19:34	<vektor>	What scanline does the W start on?
19:34	<PeteCool>	vektor: I honestly have no idea... I can find a screenshot if that can help
19:34	<vektor>	The graphic is probably just not NTSC frame safe.
19:35	<PeteCool>	http://tarek.2y.net/myth/tvmenu-2.png
19:35	<PeteCool>	scanline 48 = line 24 in pixel bitmap sizes?
19:35	<vektor>	'pixel bitmap sizes'?
19:36	<PeteCool>	like in a png
19:36	<vektor>	That png is 640x480
19:36	<vektor>	justasec
19:37	<vektor>	There's no way that image is NTSC safe.
19:38	<vektor>	Would you like a copy of RP027-3 ?
19:38	-!-	paperclip [~joe@ip68-11-30-173.no.no.cox.net] has joined #mythtv
19:38	* vektor	going to get some numbers for you
19:40	<vektor>	The left-hand corner of that W is 39 pixels in, so, it's 6% in from the start of the active area.
19:40	<vektor>	On most TVs, that will be in the overscan, that is, outside of what you can see on your TV.
19:41	<vektor>	For reference, safe title area is actually 20% in, but that's kinda overkill.
19:41	<vektor>	10% is probably the max you'd see on any modern TV.
19:41	<vektor>	That image should be corrected so that the text starts about 40 pixels to the right.
19:42	<PeteCool>	alright, I'll make sure to tell the author
19:42	<PeteCool>	thanks for the infos :)
19:42	<vektor>	The vertical position is good though, it's 15% into the frame.
19:42	<Bonkers>	why not use the underscan settings to fit each and every TV?
19:42	<vektor>	Bonkers: Fix every TV ? What are you talking about?
19:42	<vektor>	TVs aren't broken..
19:43	<Bonkers>	the underscan in myth
19:43	<vektor>	But then you'll see too much of the video, I don't understand what you're saying.
19:44	<Bonkers>	isn't the problem that peopel ahve their tv-outs set to different settings and getting different % of overscan? if that's hte case then everyone cna also adjust their underscan in myth accordingly and then you won't have to worry about "NTSC safe" images
19:45	<vektor>	No, that's not really the problem. For any reasonable modern TV, overscan is about 8%, and that's a fine default to use.
19:45	<vektor>	But having text too near the borders kinda sucks anyway. 8% is just about right for stuff that you want right near the edges, like look where CNN puts the time on the bottom right corner.
19:46	<vektor>	People don't set their TVs, and don't need to.
19:46	<Bonkers>	well I know I had a hell of a time getting the scan settings correct on my tv-out to make it fill the TV
19:47	<vektor>	You shouldn't have had to do that.
19:47	<vektor>	What TV out are you using?
19:47	<Bonkers>	geforce2 over s-video
19:47	<vektor>	Using what driver?
19:47	<vektor>	And where did you have to set settings?
19:47	<Bonkers>	why would the nvtv program have been created if I shouldn't have had to do that?
19:47	<Bonkers>	using the nvidia closed-soruce driver
19:48	<Bonkers>	the nvtv program was specifically designed for tweaking the scan settings on a variety of tv-out chipsets
19:48	<vektor>	That's actually because most of the TV output chips used on the nvidia chips are not designed for video playback.
19:48	<Bonkers>	be default the picture was quite a lot smaller than my TV
19:48	<vektor>	They're mostly designed for people doing presentations.
19:48	<PeteCool>	vektor: I can almost have it right with 768x576 with nvtv (the screen if repeated over itself in areas where X isn't told to write anything
19:48	<vektor>	So, the chips are built for scaling from PC res into the safe title area
19:49	<vektor>	that way you see the entire frame inside the visible area of a TV.
19:49	<vektor>	This is _NOT_ what you want for video
19:49	<Bonkers>	I think there may be adjustments in windows
19:49	<PeteCool>	vektor: but the hsync is out of range... it's at 27.12, does that make sense?
19:49	<Bonkers>	not quite sure as I never played with it in windows
19:49	<vektor>	The adjustments are stupid, they're mostly for adjusting so that your PC is inside the overscan.
19:49	<vektor>	For a video application, you want to be able to talk directly to the TV encoder.
19:49	<Bonkers>	well I was able to get the overscan almost perfect with some hacking
19:49	<vektor>	But unfortunately we're limited by the chips, which weren't designed for video.
19:50	<vektor>	PeteCool: Aren't you NTSC?
19:50	<PeteCool>	vektor: yes
19:50	<vektor>	PeteCool: Why would you run the TV encoder at 576 scanlines then?
19:50	<Bonkers>	I was only fooling with the standard chip registers
19:50	<vektor>	There aren't 576 active scanlines in an NTSC frame.
19:50	<PeteCool>	vektor: not the encoder chip, just X... it doesn't make sense, but it looks ok
19:51	<PeteCool>	vektor: I guess it's scaling it somehow
19:51	<vektor>	so you're scaling up using XVideo, then having the TV encoder scale back down
19:51	<vektor>	well, whatever.
19:51	<PeteCool>	bah
19:51	<PeteCool>	I'm not looking for a clean solution, only one that works
19:51	<vektor>	Yeah, I get that impression.
19:52	<PeteCool>	I know very well it's an ugly hack =)
19:52	<vektor>	Then why are we bothering to discuss it.
19:52	* vektor	gone.
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20:27	-!-	Bonkers [] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
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21:14	<DShadow>	hi. I need some help with getting mythTV 0.8 installed...
21:15	<moegreen>	what are you having problems with?
21:15	<DShadow>	I'm having problems with the qt-MySQL component it needs. I compiled mySQL myself, so when I try to install the rpm, it complains about mysql not being there. I forced the install with --nodeps, but mythTV still does not work
21:19	<moegreen>	hmm...and why not just install the mysql rpm?
21:20	<DShadow>	because mysql is one of those things I prefer to compile myself
21:20	<DShadow>	also didn't recall seeing a mysql 4.0.12 rpm
21:22	<moegreen>	well there should be a way to force rpm to install that package, isn't there a --force option?
21:22	<DShadow>	--nodeps. it installed
21:23	<PeteCool_>	DShadow: I see rpms here: http://www.mysql.com/downloads/mysql-4.0.html
21:23	<PeteCool_>	4.0.12-0
21:23	-!-	PeteCool_ is now known as PeteCool
21:25	<DShadow>	that's the other reason I don't want to use the rpms. I have to dowload three of them when the next new version comes out
21:32	<PeteCool>	vektor: the more I look at it, the more it seems no page in MythTV is "NTSC safe"...
21:35	<vektor>	Right.
21:36	<vektor>	PeteCool: I don't think many people understand video, or they are using TV output converters built for desktop content, not video content.
21:36	<vektor>	Like, it would be bad if you couldn't see the windows start bar on your TV, right?
21:36	<vektor>	However, you don't want black bars around video content.
21:37	<vektor>	If you use a commercial pc->tv converter, or the cheap TV output chips on many consumer video cards, you don't get something built for displaying video content.
21:38	<Cloak>	whats the best solution in budget?
21:38	<vektor>	The tvtool app in windows (and the nvtv equivalent in linux) allows you to use the overscan on nvidia tv output chips, which helps for video content, but it does mean that you need to make sure your graphics are built with that in min.
21:38	<vektor>	The matrox tv output chip is also quite good, but that's because matrox is also a video company (they also sell high end video framebuffer cards).
21:38	<Cloak>	So a g450tv?
21:38	<DShadow>	petecool: is there no way to get this to work without installing the rpms?
21:38	<DShadow>	becuase I already have a functional mysql installed
21:39	<PeteCool>	DShadow: qt needs to be compiled with the mysql version it'll use (or so I read here)
21:39	<vektor>	Cloak: The capture functionality on those matrox cards sucks, however. I'm just talking about the excellent 'maven' TV encoder chip on the G400/450/550 cards.
21:39	<DShadow>	oh feh
21:39	<PeteCool>	DShadow: but I'm not 100% sure on that
21:39	<vektor>	PeteCool: Does that make sense?
21:39	<DShadow>	this is gonna suck
21:39	<Cloak>	The mjpegness of the capture?
21:39	<vektor>	Cloak: And the terrible speed.
21:40	<Cloak>	gotcha, but it is hardware.. Isnt' that going to be better than software?
21:40	<DShadow>	rpmfind wanted to give me the srpm for all of QT when I tried to get the one for qt-mysql
21:40	<vektor>	Cloak: Not speed of encoding, speed of bus transfers.
21:40	<Cloak>	ah
21:40	<PeteCool>	If I remember there are no good X drivers for the 450
21:40	<vektor>	Cloak: Plus, mjpeg sucks.
21:40	<DShadow>	I don't need/want to compile and install qt when it's already installed.
21:41	<Cloak>	ya, i'm not familiar with mjpeg outside of matrox
21:41	<Chutt>	vektor, what i do is have the overscan amount on the card set so that the displayed screen size is equal to the tv size
21:41	<vektor>	PeteCool: Correct, however the hallib source code got leaked, and there's an excellent TV output driver in DirectFB.
21:41	<Chutt>	then chop off video when i display that
21:41	<PeteCool>	DShadow: You don't want to compile Qt unless you really, really have to
21:41	<DShadow>	petecool: I don't want to compile qt.
21:41	<vektor>	Chutt: You mean the visible TV size?
21:41	<Chutt>	yup
21:41	<vektor>	Chutt: Right, but don't you have some black borders in the frame, or no?
21:41	<Chutt>	not ideal, of course
21:41	<Chutt>	nope, no borders
21:42	<vektor>	Chutt: So, you effectively have about 2% of the image you're sending in the overscan, yes?
21:42	<PeteCool>	Looks like I'll be selling/trading this card
21:42	<Chutt>	well, maybe a tiny bit, but nothing visable from far away
21:42	<Chutt>	vektor, something like that
21:42	<vektor>	Chutt: So if you were to compare live video to mythtv-live-video, then you'd be squishing what's in the overscan on your TV into the visible area on your TV?
21:42	<vektor>	Chutt: Or do you also apply an overscan compensation to your xvideo output?
21:42	<Chutt>	nope, mythtv can scale up internally
21:43	<Chutt>	so, it's approximately the same as live video on the tv's tuner
21:43	<vektor>	Ok, so just like tvtime's overscan mode, you just ignore some boundary around video content.
21:43	<Chutt>	right
21:43	<vektor>	not really ideal.. :)
21:43	<Chutt>	no, but, it works
21:43	<vektor>	yep.
21:43	<Cloak>	vektor: are there any perfect solutions yet for a video card?
21:44	<vektor>	Cloak: For TV output?
21:44	<Cloak>	ya
21:44	<vektor>	Cloak: There are no applications that use correctly any of the half-assed attempts that we have.
21:44	<Cloak>	well, and encoding. sorry
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21:45	<Cloak>	thats encouraging
21:45	<vektor>	Cloak: As I mentioned, there is a 'correct' TV output driver for the G400/G450/G550 in DirectFB, but no application that uses it (currently there are 2) can maintain frame-sync and run it correctly.
21:45	<vektor>	there is an mplayer patch to use that TV output, but it's still not as good as a hardware DVD player.
21:45	<vektor>	there are some sync issues.
21:45	<Chutt>	the matrox cards would be nicer if they were capable of full-sized raw capture
21:45	<Chutt>	mjpeg just sucks =)
21:45	<vektor>	Chutt: Agreed, matrox cards are useless for capture.
21:46	<vektor>	Does it ever.
21:46	<Chutt>	moegreen, hrm. i think it might be nicer to have the ui in xml, not qtlook =)
21:47	<vektor>	Chutt: I still think that you should subject your OSD to the same clipping transformations as your video ;-)
21:47	<Chutt>	osd, or the actual ui?
21:48	<moegreen>	Chutt: that can be changed, i've just got the colors in there
21:48	<moegreen>	http://untzuntz.com/mythtv/playback/
21:48	<Chutt>	moegreen, need to come up with some nice way of generalizing things so that not too much code is duplicated between the different windows
21:49	<Chutt>	i still don't like the flat color background =)
21:49	<vektor>	Chutt: So, you use Qt to render those graphics, correct?
21:49	<vektor>	Chutt: It renders to X right, not to a framebuffer?
21:49	<moegreen>	Which code is duplicated
21:50	<Chutt>	vektor, yup
21:50	<Chutt>	moegreen, well, parsing stuff
21:50	<Chutt>	moegreen, when the view conflicts screen is made like this
21:50	<Chutt>	and the music playback box, etc
21:51	<moegreen>	Chutt: oh yeah, I was planning on that once I got everything done here. You mean to pull the list out into it's own widget class, right?
21:51	<Chutt>	well
21:51	<Chutt>	no =)
21:51	<Chutt>	but, the xml parsing code
21:51	<Chutt>	be nice to share more of that between windows
21:51	<Chutt>	the non-existant xml parsing code
21:51	<Chutt>	still waiting to be written =)
21:51	<moegreen>	ah, I see :)
21:52	<Chutt>	wow, that draws slowly
21:52	<moegreen>	I guess I could make the background of the 'delete confirm' screen be an option. nziarek wanted nothing to do with it
21:53	<Chutt>	yeah, i saw =)
21:53	<moegreen>	Chutt: I assume you mean the shadow ... and if so, yes
21:53	<Chutt>	yeah
21:53	<Chutt>	draws in like 3 big chunks
21:53	<Chutt>	hitting escape on that delete window kills it
21:53	<moegreen>	Chutt: yeah ... heh it just sits there
21:53	<Chutt>	well, hangs the ui, until escape is pressed again
21:54	<Chutt>	is the menu any faster for you?
21:54	<moegreen>	the ui isn't really hung, I disable the accelerators while in the popup
21:54	<moegreen>	yeah, it is a bit faster
21:55	<Chutt>	should be more noticeable for those silly people running at higher resolutions
21:55	<moegreen>	Chutt: Covering the screen when using the solid background is faster because I'm just using the FillRect with the Dense3Pattern, looks the same on a TV ...
21:56	<Chutt>	yeah, that's quick
22:00	<moegreen>	The problem is i have it tied to the Transparent Background Images setting, which isn't really what it should be tied to - it should be more of a, I'm Using Myth on a TV type setting
22:06	<moegreen>	Chutt: http://untzuntz.com/mythtv/testing/blue-nosolid.jpg
22:07	<PeteCool>	is tarek still around? He seems to have disappeared
22:10	<vektor>	PeteCool: did my ramblings above help/make sense?
22:10	<PeteCool>	vektor: yep
22:11	-!-	paperclip [~joe@ip68-11-30-173.no.no.cox.net] has joined #mythtv
22:18	<PeteCool>	vektor: what do you know about the ATI tv-out encoders?
22:20	<PeteCool>	vektor: it's said they work with the gatos drivers, with radeon1-class cards
22:26	<vektor>	I honestly know nothing, but would like information.
22:26	<vektor>	Here is my TV output under linux webpage: http://vektor.theorem.ca/graphics/tvout/
22:28	-!-	gimpy [1000@ool-4350e234.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #mythtv
22:28	<gimpy>	is anyone around i need help
22:28	<gimpy>	nerama -lmp3lame -lqt-mt -lpthread -lXext -lX11 -lm
22:28	<gimpy>	main.o(.text+0x7a): In function `main':
22:28	<gimpy>	: undefined reference to `QApplication::QApplication[in-charge](int&, char**)'
22:28	<gimpy>	main.o(.text+0xa3): In function `main':
22:28	<gimpy>	: undefined reference to `QSqlDatabase::defaultConnection'
22:28	<gimpy>	main.o(.text+0xb2): In function `main':
22:28	<gimpy>	: undefined reference to `QString::QString[in-charge](char const*)'
22:28	<gimpy>	and the list goes on
22:28	<PeteCool>	hmm
22:28	<PeteCool>	CVS?
22:28	<gimpy>	naw .8
22:29	<thor_>	can't find Qt possibly
22:29	<thor_>	is QTDIR set?
22:29	<PeteCool>	what QT version do you have?
22:29	<gimpy>	[gimpy:~][gimpy:~]$ echo $QTDIR
22:29	<gimpy>	/usr/lib/qt-3.0.4
22:30	<thor_>	what part of the compile is breaking?
22:30	<thor_>	which directory
22:30	<gimpy>	make[2]: Entering directory `/home/gimpy/mythtv-0.8/programs/mythepg'
22:31	<thor_>	and is dying right away, or during linking?
22:31	<gimpy>	g++ -o mythepg main.o -Wl,-rpath,/usr/lib/qt-3.0.4/lib -L/usr/lib/qt-3.0.4/li
22:31	<gimpy>	b -L/usr/X11R6/lib -L../../libs/libmyth -L../../libs/libmythtv -L../../libs/liba
22:31	<gimpy>	vcodec -L../../libs/libvbitext -lmythtv -lavcodec -lvbitext -lmyth-0.8 -lXv -lXi
22:31	<gimpy>	nerama -lmp3lame -lqt-mt -lpthread -lXext -lX11 -lm
22:31	<gimpy>