| 00:01 | <knoppix> | poptix_v6: I just re-ran mythtv-setup (part of debian package) and chose /dev/dsp2 and /dev/video for Card 1? Sound okay? |
| 00:02 | <knoppix> | I already modprobed btaudio, so in a few minutes I'll restart all things mythtv and hopefull should be fine. No need to yank loopback cable I suppose since it does not harm now. |
| 00:02 | <yebyen> | hrm |
| 00:02 | <yebyen> | this isn't working either |
| 00:02 | <yebyen> | odd |
| 00:03 | <yebyen> | i'm missing macgyver too |
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| 05:37 | <nevertheless> | damn, whats up with that lindows guy |
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| 07:48 | <giuppi> | hi! to watch tv while recording another channel i _must_ have two capture card ? |
| 07:51 | <nevertheless> | giuppi: yes |
| 07:53 | <giuppi> | nevertheless is there any card with multiple tuners ? |
| 07:56 | <nevertheless> | don't know of any |
| 07:57 | <nevertheless> | don't you have enough pci's ? |
| 08:01 | <giuppi> | no i don't |
| 08:07 | <nevertheless> | thats sad, even better then the watch'n'rec feature I like the PiP stuff |
| 08:20 | <rkulagow> | i've seen cards that have multiple Bt878's on-board, but they don't have multiple tuners, so you'd need an external channel changer and feed a composite or s-video signal into the card. |
| 08:21 | <giuppi> | rkulagow so basically i can't have two pal tv signals ? |
| 08:34 | <rkulagow> | i don't believe so. like i said, external tuner, feed the tuned signal to the card and then take it from there. |
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| 11:22 | <m0tion> | when mythfrontend executes an outside program (like, mythmusic, for example) is there anyway to return to mythfrontend without ending the outside program? |
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| 12:43 | <merf> | does anyone know why mythtv just sits there and does nothing when i run it? |
| 12:43 | * merf | asks ambiguous questions :/ |
| 12:45 | <Conaz> | How about mythfrontend? |
| 12:45 | <Conaz> | I guess I've never tried just running mythtv |
| 12:47 | <merf> | well, mythfrontend just hangs when i run mythtv |
| 12:47 | <merf> | i think it's something to do with my sound.. |
| 12:47 | <nevertheless> | any output on the console? |
| 12:47 | <merf> | it probes, and then sets volume levels, and then that 'strange error flusing buffer' (which i assume is unrelated) |
| 12:47 | <merf> | and then nothing |
| 12:49 | <Conaz> | xawtv works? |
| 12:49 | -!- | nevertheless [] has quit [Remote closed the connection] |
| 12:49 | <merf> | yep, xawtv works perfectly |
| 12:50 | <merf> | however.. if i run xawtv, mute+caputre the linein, and then aplay /dev/dsp0, i hear no sound |
| 12:50 | <merf> | which is why i suspect the sound |
| 12:52 | <Conaz> | hmm |
| 12:55 | <merf> | i know |
| 12:55 | <merf> | it's annoying as all get out |
| 12:55 | <merf> | i might have to switch to freevo :D |
| 12:55 | <Chutt> | you probably have something like artsd or esd running |
| 12:56 | <Conaz> | freevo has nothing on MythTV :) |
| 12:56 | <Conaz> | It may be hard to get going, but it is very cool once it works |
| 12:56 | <merf> | artsd doesn't start, and i don't even have esd |
| 12:56 | <merf> | i'm getting pretty goddamn annoyed.. i really really want mythtv :D |
| 12:56 | <Chutt> | then your soundcard doesn't do full-duplex |
| 12:57 | <Conaz> | <- been there, had to purchase a cheap SB PCI card |
| 12:57 | <Chutt> | might try alsa if you're using the kernel sound drivers |
| 12:58 | <Conaz> | I'm gonna tackle switching from my WinTV::Go card to the Matrox G200TV this week, so I'm sure I'll be in the fun with ya merf :) |
| 12:58 | <merf> | i installed alsa specifically for mythtv.. |
| 12:58 | <merf> | but that's a good point |
| 12:59 | <merf> | i bet you twenty bucks this crappy isa soundcard -doesn't- do full duplex |
| 12:59 | -!- | Universe [~Yeah@pwc2-hs-nk.bbnplanet.com] has joined #mythtv |
| 12:59 | <merf> | well, i'll search for a pci one and let you know how it goes |
| 12:59 | * merf | must goto school tho |
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| 15:18 | <nevertheless> | Chutt: did you look over my stuff in the meantime? |
| 15:32 | <rkulagow> | chutt: for the MP3 quality slider, you're using the same parameters as lame, ie, higher number is lower quality, correct? |
| 15:40 | <knoppix> | How can I scale the video playback window. If I type 'F' I get out of full screen and get a window, but resizing that window does not scale the video playback inside the window. I *DO* have DGA extension loaded in X. (vers. 2 of it) |
| 15:49 | <Universe> | you have to change the resolution getting |
| 15:49 | <Universe> | the video in the box isn't meant to auto scale |
| 15:50 | <Universe> | getting/setting.. |
| 16:20 | <knoppix> | Universe: I presume I should change the 'capture' resolution in settings.txt? Can one set the resolution with v4lctl program? |
| 16:23 | <Universe> | yes... the capture resolution |
| 16:24 | <Universe> | and i am not sure about the v4lctl program |
| 16:27 | <knoppix> | Universe: thanks ... I'll give that a shot. In other news: MythTV is one rocking media-convergence system! |
| 16:29 | <knoppix> | I have hacked and tweaked my mythtv setup quite a bit over the past few months (no changes to source code however). I have enough info for a mini-howto regarding certain topics. Is there a way to register so that one can edit the documentation. (Presumably CVS access would be enough ...?) |
| 16:30 | <nevertheless> | better talk to rkulagow about your stuff |
| 16:30 | <nevertheless> | hee maintains the howtos |
| 16:31 | <knoppix> | okay I'll try to speak with him |
| 16:41 | <rkulagow> | knoppix: send me an email at mailto:rkulagow@rocketmail.com with the items that you'd like to include in the HOWTO. I'll take a look. |
| 16:54 | -!- | TheAsp [asp@CDR13-117.accesscable.net] has joined #mythtv |
| 16:55 | <TheAsp> | mdz/chutt? Either of you here? Need to verify my understanding of the record channel |
| 16:55 | <TheAsp> | if the dates are null, it's a timeslot record, right? |
| 16:56 | <TheAsp> | or does the type column play into that? |
| 16:56 | <nevertheless> | hmm, here the date is not null for a timeslot one |
| 16:56 | <TheAsp> | I have both |
| 16:56 | <nevertheless> | so i assume it to depend on the type, but i don't know |
| 16:57 | <TheAsp> | i'm looking at fixing mythweb for the new db layout |
| 16:58 | <nevertheless> | hmm, i think the type selects the kind of recording. |
| 16:58 | <nevertheless> | i choose a record it all time and got a type = 3 and timeslotrecording ist type=2 so |
| 16:58 | <TheAsp> | hmm |
| 16:58 | <TheAsp> | *nod* |
| 16:59 | <nevertheless> | hmmm, always = 4, always on this channel = 3, timeslot = 2 |
| 17:00 | <nevertheless> | the mysqlnavigator is a really neat tool for that sql stuff :-) |
| 17:00 | <TheAsp> | so is the mysql client :) |
| 17:01 | <TheAsp> | those nulls must be from when I converted |
| 17:01 | <nevertheless> | yepp, but my mysql skills are not that great :-) |
| 17:03 | <TheAsp> | can you show me a record for always record? |
| 17:04 | <TheAsp> | since you have one already :) |
| 17:04 | <Chutt> | nevertheless, haven't had time yet, really |
| 17:04 | <Chutt> | i was out of town for most of the last week |
| 17:05 | <nevertheless> | Chutt: hmmm :-) |
| 17:05 | * TheAsp | looks at chutt |
| 17:05 | <TheAsp> | hey |
| 17:05 | <Chutt> | theasp, there've been 2 sets of patches made for mythweb |
| 17:05 | <Chutt> | sent to the list |
| 17:05 | <TheAsp> | oh |
| 17:05 | <TheAsp> | hmm |
| 17:05 | <TheAsp> | either any good? |
| 17:05 | <Chutt> | i'd _really_ like someone to look at em and see if they're ok |
| 17:05 | <TheAsp> | ok |
| 17:05 | <Chutt> | i don't know php =) |
| 17:05 | <nevertheless> | yeah, i realized nothing goin' on the last days |
| 17:05 | <TheAsp> | i spose i should subscribe |
| 17:05 | <TheAsp> | neither do I, but that hasnt stopped me yet |
| 17:06 | <TheAsp> | can you send me the patches? the archive doesn't keep atachments |
| 17:06 | <Chutt> | i think the searchable one does |
| 17:06 | <nevertheless> | Chutt: unfortunatly i don't dare going on with my implementation before I get a confirmation of you |
| 17:06 | <Chutt> | nevertheless, i think things looked ok |
| 17:06 | <nevertheless> | I don't know, if you like the scheduler keep track of the idle status |
| 17:06 | <Chutt> | and i will look at it more soon |
| 17:07 | <Chutt> | that's fine |
| 17:07 | <nevertheless> | TheAsp: always record is type 4 |
| 17:08 | <TheAsp> | nevertheless: yea, wanted to see the full record, but nm now |
| 17:08 | <nevertheless> | Chutt: but I'll wait for you to check my stuff, since I really don't know how to solve the two issues marked in my "patch" |
| 17:09 | <nevertheless> | TheAsp: the line is normal except beeing type 4 |
| 17:09 | <TheAsp> | does php/qt support placeholders, like dbi does? |
| 17:09 | <Chutt> | qt does |
| 17:09 | <Chutt> | well, in 3.1 |
| 17:09 | <TheAsp> | ah |
| 17:09 | <Chutt> | but i'm only requiring 3.0.x, so, can't use em |
| 17:09 | <Chutt> | i don't know php =) |
| 17:10 | <-- Universe | has quit () |
| 17:10 | <TheAsp> | *nod* :) |
| 17:10 | <TheAsp> | were you refering to 2 seperate patches, or the 2 from that same guy? |
| 17:10 | <Chutt> | there's 2 from one guy, and another guy sent in something else |
| 17:11 | <Chutt> | i'm going to just check one of them in in the next couple days |
| 17:11 | <Chutt> | lichen was going to look them over, but.. =) |
| 17:11 | <TheAsp> | i'm looking at the latest one right now |
| 17:12 | <TheAsp> | patching file functions.php |
| 17:12 | <TheAsp> | Hunk #2 FAILED at 55. |
| 17:12 | <TheAsp> | *sigh* |
| 17:12 | <TheAsp> | not a good sign |
| 17:12 | <Chutt> | nope |
| 17:13 | <TheAsp> | what card do you use for tvout? |
| 17:14 | <Conaz> | is the current cvs in a fairly working state these days? been awhile since I looked at it |
| 17:14 | <nevertheless> | Conaz: hmmm, think so |
| 17:15 | <TheAsp> | is for me |
| 17:15 | <nevertheless> | PiP is kinda crappy |
| 17:15 | <Conaz> | Excellent, purchased a cheap G200TV I think I'll play a little bit when it arrives :) |
| 17:15 | <nevertheless> | but liveTV and video works quite fine |
| 17:16 | <TheAsp> | grr, why doesn't diff default to -u? |
| 17:16 | <nevertheless> | TheAsp: I hate that, too :-) |
| 17:16 | <Conaz> | hmm, I always use -c, I'll have to try -u :) |
| 17:19 | -!- | Conaz is now known as Conaz[work] |
| 17:24 | <TheAsp> | if (smellsLikeMovie($proginfo->duration, $proginfo->progType)) { |
| 17:24 | <TheAsp> | heh |
| 17:25 | <nevertheless> | :) |
| 17:28 | <TheAsp> | hmm |
| 17:28 | <TheAsp> | well the guy who posted the diff's changes a bunch of stuff not related to the db |
| 17:28 | <TheAsp> | seems to mess with the interface a bit |
| 17:29 | <TheAsp> | and it doesn't apply cleanly |
| 17:29 | <TheAsp> | some russ guy is patching up the other one according to the list |
| 17:29 | <TheAsp> | have that installed now, but it's just the files, not a diff |
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| 17:30 | <TheAsp> | gonna schedule a few movies, since thats all i wanted it for, and see what happens |
| 17:34 | <TheAsp> | seems to work |
| 17:36 | <TheAsp> | doesn't show the [R] in the movie listing any more |
| 17:50 | <aw> | has anybody noticed problems when their ringbuffer fills up? (latest cvs) |
| 17:51 | <aw> | I think I've finally ironed out all my other segfaults, but if I leave it on the same channel and just let it run, I get a segfault in mythbacked and the ringbuffer is suspiciously right at 4GB (as is my limit) |
| 17:51 | <nevertheless> | i didn't come that far, but, when using the ringbuffer as a temp recording, I was scary about mythtv just crashing when the buffer fills up :-) |
| 17:52 | <nevertheless> | aw: which fs? |
| 17:52 | <TheAsp> | i havent watched livetv in weeks |
| 17:52 | <aw> | ext3 |
| 17:52 | <aw> | I cat'ed a couple bytes to the end of the file after mythtv died, so I don't think it was the fs |
| 17:53 | <nevertheless> | ah, sorry, 4gb is YOUR SET limit |
| 17:53 | <nevertheless> | my fault |
| 17:53 | <aw> | yeah |
| 17:53 | <nevertheless> | honestly, I don't know how tested the new code is about this stuff |
| 17:54 | <TheAsp> | `are you sure it had just reached 4gb? |
| 17:54 | <aw> | guess I just have to change the channel more often ;^) |
| 17:54 | <TheAsp> | it could have wrapped around |
| 17:54 | <aw> | TheAsp: no, I'm not sure that it made it there in correlation to the segfault |
| 17:55 | <TheAsp> | *nod* |
| 17:55 | <aw> | I should set it low and my bitrate up and see what happens |
| 17:55 | <TheAsp> | i think a "random" segfault is more likely :) |
| 17:55 | <nevertheless> | I think Ill test that in the next days |
| 17:55 | <aw> | it's been so stable otherwise lately though |
| 17:56 | <nevertheless> | yepp |
| 17:56 | <aw> | the only other problem I have is when it dies from a btaudio buffer overrun |
| 17:56 | <TheAsp> | btaudio only works for some cards, right?> |
| 17:56 | <Chutt> | the ringbuffer overflowing around might cause problems with the current code |
| 17:56 | <nevertheless> | I have some random hangups, but nothing I could track down, yet |
| 17:56 | <Chutt> | i haven't tested that, yet |
| 17:57 | <nevertheless> | excactly my thought |
| 17:57 | <TheAsp> | hey! my card supports it! |
| 17:57 | <aw> | TheAsp: yeah, this is basically a WinTVGO, btaudio seems to work well on it (except for the overrun once in a while) |
| 17:58 | <nevertheless> | the wintvgo is the mono one? |
| 17:58 | <aw> | yep :( |
| 17:58 | <nevertheless> | I've got this one, too, but I couldn't get btaudio to work |
| 17:58 | <aw> | I have a really old one, I think before they actually started calling them wintvgo |
| 17:59 | <nevertheless> | I bougth a 2nd audio card (except the onboard one) |
| 17:59 | <TheAsp> | this all goes over i2s? |
| 17:59 | <TheAsp> | how freaky |
| 17:59 | <nevertheless> | aw: mine is very old, too :) |
| 17:59 | <nevertheless> | (2nd) to use my 2 tuner cards |
| 18:00 | <aw> | the subsys device id shows up as wintvgo though |
| 18:00 | <TheAsp> | aw: does it work with oss? |
| 18:00 | <TheAsp> | err |
| 18:00 | <TheAsp> | alsa |
| 18:00 | <aw> | dunno, I avoid alsa as best as I can |
| 18:01 | * TheAsp | doubts it |
| 18:01 | <TheAsp> | i avoid oss |
| 18:01 | <TheAsp> | :P |
| 18:02 | <nevertheless> | hmm, now mythbackend goes crazy again... takes 100%cpu without a client and no recording |
| 18:02 | <nevertheless> | and, due to no debug code, i cannot track it down :-( |
| 18:02 | <aw> | I'll probably switch to alsa when it gets put in 2.4 proper, or I move to 2.5 |
| 18:03 | <TheAsp> | i doubt it's going into 2.4 |
| 18:03 | <aw> | me too, but I won't exclude it |
| 18:03 | <TheAsp> | it's in debian though :) |
| 18:04 | <aw> | yeah, I pulled the latest alsa-source from sid yesterday, and all the saound proc interfaces were fubar'd |
| 18:09 | <TheAsp> | wfm.... |
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| 20:16 | <poptix> | why is everyone bent on using alsa? |
| 20:16 | <Chutt> | because it works better than oss for a bunch of cards |
| 20:16 | <poptix> | oss has been working with 0 problems for me on multiple systems =p |
| 20:16 | <poptix> | well great, use alsa on those cards |
| 20:17 | <poptix> | use the best tool =p |
| 20:17 | <Chutt> | the oss stuff's deprecated, anyway |
| 20:17 | <poptix> | shrug |
| 20:17 | <poptix> | i don't see how |
| 20:17 | <vektor> | poptix: you're big on complaining, aren't you :) |
| 20:17 | <Chutt> | alsa's the default in 2.5/6 |
| 20:18 | <poptix> | vektor: my qualification of 'working' for a sound device is the ability to grab and play sound |
| 20:18 | <poptix> | my emu10k works great |
| 20:18 | <vektor> | ok |
| 20:18 | <poptix> | _with_ artsd running |
| 20:18 | <vektor> | ok |
| 20:18 | <vektor> | so what? |
| 20:18 | <vektor> | i'm just curious what your point it |
| 20:18 | <vektor> | is |
| 20:19 | <poptix> | the point is that if it works, why pressure people into using something else |
| 20:19 | <vektor> | I think that's the wrong point to make. |
| 20:19 | <poptix> | unless 48khz sounds better with the alsa drivers than the oss drivers =p |
| 20:20 | <vektor> | You should be offering to maintain the OSS code if the developers move to ALSA. |
| 20:20 | <vektor> | I know that in my apps, I support OSS because I use OSS-compatible drivers. |
| 20:20 | <poptix> | vektor: maintain what code? |
| 20:20 | <vektor> | If I had ALSA running, then I'd use the ALSA API. |
| 20:20 | <Chutt> | i don't use the alsa api |
| 20:20 | <TheAsp> | alsa drivers work better for me.... |
| 20:20 | <vektor> | And someone else would have to write the OSS code. |
| 20:20 | <Chutt> | since, well, it sucks. |
| 20:20 | <vektor> | ah ok. |
| 20:20 | <vektor> | So then what's the issue? |
| 20:20 | <TheAsp> | besides, the alsa stuff is just cooler |
| 20:20 | <poptix> | hah |
| 20:21 | <vektor> | The ALSA API is a pain in the ass. |
| 20:21 | <poptix> | it's cooler |
| 20:21 | <Chutt> | but the drivers work a whole lot better than oss for a bunch of cards, so i recommend using it instead |
| 20:21 | <vektor> | Ah. |
| 20:21 | <poptix> | Chutt: you're cool by association for using alsa |
| 20:21 | <poptix> | Chutt: =) |
| 20:22 | <poptix> | anyway. |
| 20:23 | <poptix> | use what works. |
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| 20:23 | <vektor> | use what you like. |
| 20:23 | <poptix> | don't rip your hair out trying to get the alsa drivers working if the oss drivers work fine. |
| 20:23 | <vektor> | don't rip your hair out trying to develop for linux when windows works just fine. |
| 20:23 | <poptix> | vektor: absolutely. |
| 20:23 | <poptix> | unfortunately, windows doesn't work. |
| 20:24 | <TheAsp> | luckily, that never happens |
| 20:24 | <vektor> | linux is full of people using software that is worse than something else, trying to make it better. |
| 20:24 | <vektor> | the fun is making things work, not using what works now. |
| 20:24 | <TheAsp> | everything i use is better then whats for windows... |
| 20:25 | <vektor> | TheAsp: hah |
| 20:25 | <poptix> | vektor: yes, it's fun to hack away at things to get them to work |
| 20:26 | <poptix> | but the alsa drivers don't offer any benefit over the oss drivers as far as functionality is concerned. |
| 20:26 | <TheAsp> | more things in the mixer... |
| 20:26 | <poptix> | at least not for any sound cards i have |
| 20:26 | <TheAsp> | atleast for me |
| 20:26 | <TheAsp> | plus i can use my 2nd dac |
| 20:26 | <poptix> | TheAsp: for my SB Live! i can remap all the lines back and forth from timbuktu and back =) |
| 20:26 | <vektor> | poptix: so why don't you port the emu10k driver to alsa? |
| 20:27 | <vektor> | i think there is an alsa driver already that is identical |
| 20:27 | <vektor> | is there something wrong with it? |
| 20:27 | <poptix> | vektor: why would I do that? it works fine right now. |
| 20:27 | <vektor> | i soo don't understand your point |
| 20:27 | <TheAsp> | he has no point |
| 20:27 | <vektor> | i don't think he does |
| 20:27 | <TheAsp> | but im still waiting for you to name something that i can do better in windows |
| 20:27 | <TheAsp> | :P |
| 20:27 | <vektor> | like what are you complaining about? |
| 20:27 | <vektor> | TheAsp: maybe you use your computer differently than i do |
| 20:27 | <poptix> | the point is that there's people who have no idea wtf they're doing, and people here are telling them they _must_ use alsa drivers |
| 20:28 | <TheAsp> | it's worded as recomended... |
| 20:28 | <poptix> | the alsa drivers are a pain in the ass unless you're using a dev kernel, which a newbie shouldn't be using |
| 20:28 | <vektor> | poptix: i guess you get what you pay for :) |
| 20:28 | <vektor> | free advice is just that :) |
| 20:28 | <poptix> | TheAsp: i recommend that people put a splintered broomstick up their arse |
| 20:28 | <poptix> | TheAsp: doesn't mean everyone is doing it =) |
| 20:28 | <vektor> | poptix: for many cards the alsa drivers are more maintained than the ones in the kernel |
| 20:29 | <TheAsp> | poptix: apt-get install alsa-source, cd /usr/src/; tar xvfz alsa-driver.tar.gz;cd linux;make-kpkg modules_image;cd ..;dpkg -i alsa* |
| 20:29 | <vektor> | so, in some cases.. |
| 20:29 | <vektor> | TheAsp: that's not exactly easy or deterministic to work :) |
| 20:29 | <vektor> | TheAsp: i've had my share of alsa pain in the past |
| 20:29 | <TheAsp> | vektor: but it's in the readme :) |
| 20:29 | <poptix> | TheAsp: as opposed to 'modprobe emu10k' |
| 20:30 | <TheAsp> | poptix: for someone who hasn't used alsa, you are complaining alot |
| 20:30 | <poptix> | TheAsp: and do you really want to sit their and hold peoples hands to fix their compilation problems? |
| 20:30 | <poptix> | TheAsp: oh, i've used alsa |
| 20:31 | <poptix> | then i determined that it wasn't going to get me anything the oss driver didn't have, and simply wasn't worth the hassle =) |
| 20:31 | <TheAsp> | and thats why you are complaining? |
| 20:32 | <poptix> | i'm simply making the point that the oss drivers are _easier_ |
| 20:32 | <vektor> | poptix: i stillcan't tell if you're complaining that the alsa driver offers no benefit, or that the alsa system (api etc) offers no benefit, or that applications should not support alsa, or what? |
| 20:32 | <poptix> | especially when you're walking some person who knows nothing about linux through setting up their system |
| 20:32 | <vektor> | do you think that alsa shouldn't go into the kernel? |
| 20:33 | <vektor> | or what? |
| 20:33 | <vektor> | or i guess you're complaining that anyone would suggest that alsa might be better? |
| 20:33 | <poptix> | vektor: if it's in the kernel, great, then $distribution will have the modules precompiled for $newbie to modprobe |
| 20:33 | <TheAsp> | why does linux have to be a newbie os? |
| 20:33 | <vektor> | debian does have a binary package for the alsa modules |
| 20:33 | <poptix> | at the moment, there's no need to tell $newbie to go download+compile alsa when the oss drivers are already there, and compiled. |
| 20:34 | <vektor> | but you need to for some cards whre there is no oss driver |
| 20:34 | <vektor> | it's not like the drivers are the same either |
| 20:34 | <vektor> | for the i810 onboard audio they are different, for example |
| 20:34 | <TheAsp> | *BLINK* |
| 20:34 | <poptix> | TheAsp: it doesn't, if you're proficient enough to deal with the errors without crying to this channel, or the mythtv mailing list, then more power to you |
| 20:34 | <TheAsp> | why would they be the same? |
| 20:35 | <vektor> | TheAsp: they're not the same that's what i said |
| 20:35 | <poptix> | if there's no oss driver then $newbie is has no choice =) |
| 20:35 | <vektor> | poptix: ok so your only problem is that someone recommended people to use the alsa drivers? |
| 20:35 | <TheAsp> | vektor: i think he's trying to avoid answering that question |
| 20:35 | <TheAsp> | :) |
| 20:36 | <poptix> | vektor: my problem is people telling newbies that they must use alsa drivers |
| 20:36 | <vektor> | ok |
| 20:36 | <vektor> | so, next time someone does it, maybe you could suggest to them that it's not always good |
| 20:36 | <poptix> | those people complain to the mailing list with a multitude of problems with sound |
| 20:36 | <poptix> | i mean, really, have you looked at all the sound issues on the mailing list? |
| 20:36 | <vektor> | I don't read the mailing list. |
| 20:37 | <poptix> | mythtv doesn't do anything special |
| 20:37 | <poptix> | it should be a no-brainer |
| 20:37 | <vektor> | Unfortunately, sound drivers are a difficult thing under linux. |
| 20:37 | <vektor> | Always have been, just like anything else where lots of people have different hardware. |
| 20:38 | <vektor> | And full duplex audio without dropouts hasn't always been simple either. |
| 20:38 | <vektor> | So I have some sympathy. |
| 20:38 | <poptix> | sound drivers aren't hard =p |
| 20:38 | <vektor> | Um, they are if you're a voulenteer. |
| 20:39 | <vektor> | And if you're trying to do low-latency stuff... |
| 20:39 | <vektor> | Look at all the soundcards with crappy drivers. |
| 20:39 | <vektor> | The emu10k is a classic example even. |
| 20:39 | <vektor> | I've had tons of problems with my es1371 since I bought it in 1998. |
| 20:39 | <TheAsp> | poptix: the only card i had that didnt suck under OSS was my SB1.0 |
| 20:39 | <vektor> | The driver author and I went through a few rounds with some bugs :) |
| 20:39 | <poptix> | shrug, i've never had sound problems =p |
| 20:39 | <vektor> | What audio apps have you written? |
| 20:40 | <poptix> | heh |
| 20:40 | <poptix> | i wrote a perl program to spit out callerid once |
| 20:40 | <poptix> | (actually generate the tones) |
| 20:40 | <vektor> | Ok, and what full-duplex apps have you used? |
| 20:40 | <vektor> | In fact, before using mythtv, did you run _any_ full duplex audio applications? |
| 20:41 | <poptix> | i'm not referring to the API |
| 20:41 | <vektor> | What about full duplex with multiple applications? |
| 20:41 | <poptix> | i've done audio streaming from the line input |
| 20:41 | <poptix> | which included pumping it right back out the speaker out |
| 20:41 | <poptix> | i've never had any problems with multiple applications using the sound card at the same time |
| 20:41 | <vektor> | Ok, you've been pretty lucky then. |
| 20:42 | <vektor> | When did you start? |
| 20:42 | <poptix> | perhaps. |
| 20:42 | <poptix> | i've been using Linux since early '95 |
| 20:42 | <vektor> | Wow, and you've _never_ had problems?? |
| 20:42 | <poptix> | i'll admit, i didn't do much in the way of audio until mp3's came around |
| 20:42 | <TheAsp> | you've only had a sound card for 6 mo haven't you |
| 20:42 | <TheAsp> | :) |
| 20:43 | <poptix> | i've always used creative sound cards though =p |
| 20:43 | <poptix> | and some $5 sound cards |
| 20:43 | <vektor> | Under linux I've used a PAS16 ISA, SB16 ISA, SB32AWE, es1370, es1371 (x2), i810 onboard audio, ess solo-1, mpu-ipc-t |
| 20:43 | * poptix | tries to remember the chipset on those |
| 20:43 | <vektor> | And I've had problems with all of them, and purchased the 4front-tech drivers twice. :) |
| 20:43 | <vektor> | I've also written a few audio apps, and MIDI apps. |
| 20:43 | <poptix> | some ISA piece of crap =p |
| 20:43 | <vektor> | There's been problems with all of them. |
| 20:44 | <vektor> | MIDI drivers are the worst by far though. |
| 20:44 | <vektor> | And low-latency stuff. |
| 20:44 | <vektor> | Alot of the work on audio stuff has been for low-latency support. |
| 20:44 | <vektor> | Also, for a while I had two or three soundcards in the box. |
| 20:44 | <vektor> | Problems there too. |
| 20:45 | <vektor> | The ALSA stuff has been a looong time needed though, sound drivers are a nightmare under linux because it's so fragmented, and like you're saying, it's hard to get users to use experimental drivers |
| 20:45 | <vektor> | Since ALSA isn't marketed to newbie users. |
| 20:45 | <vektor> | There's no real work being done to make them easy either. |
| 20:45 | <vektor> | Nobody cares. |
| 20:46 | <vektor> | So apps that rely on the ALSA API get fucked (so nobody can use it without having to support it _and_ OSS) |
| 20:46 | <vektor> | And users get fucked too since they have to deal with all the crap |
| 20:46 | <poptix> | i'm not commenting on the API |
| 20:46 | <poptix> | personally, i think it's all rather stupid |
| 20:46 | <vektor> | And then the whole OSS-Free vs OSS-kernel crap. |
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