TheGrebs.com:IRC Logs:#mythtv:2002:10:28

00:05	<Chutt>	heh
00:05	<Chutt>	libavcodec just got a wma decoder
00:07	-!-	marick [] has quit [Remote closed the connection]
00:15	<vektor>	kick ass
00:57	-!-	rcaskey_afk [] has quit [Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)]
01:44	-!-	Soopaman [] has quit [Connection timed out]
06:43	-!-	oztiks [seth@vaio.off.yewnix.net] has joined #Mythtv
06:43	-!-	skitzo [] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)]
09:44	-!-	Universe [~uni@6532175hfc29.tampabay.rr.com] has joined #mythtv
10:00	-!-	Universe [] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
10:11	-!-	tss [~tss@uncle.collusion.org] has joined #mythtv
10:11	<tss>	howdy
10:13	<Chutt>	hi
10:15	-!-	Tuscany [~username@66.54.186.1] has joined #mythtv
10:16	<tss>	how's it going?
10:19	<Tuscany>	hey
10:29	<mdz_>	Chutt: when you said the mplayer output and mythtv output looked identical...were you deinterlacing in mythtv, mplayer, neither or both?
10:31	-!-	mdz [] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net]
10:31	-!-	mdz [~mdz@209-6-103-23.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #mythtv
10:31	<Chutt>	neither
10:32	<mdz_>	were you using them on a TV or on a monitor?
10:32	<Chutt>	monitor
10:32	<mdz_>	hmm
10:32	<mdz_>	when I playback the recordings in mplayer without deinterlacing, they look liney
10:32	<mdz_>	horizontal lines appearing in places with motion
10:32	<Chutt>	right
10:33	<Chutt>	that's how it should be
10:33	<mdz_>	right, I have seen that with other recordings too
10:33	<mdz_>	I don't see it on the TV though, which makes sense I suppose
10:33	<Chutt>	yup
10:37	<mdz_>	I need a video camera so that I can record what I am seeing on the TV so you can see it :-)
10:37	<mdz_>	it looks sort of...dithered
10:37	<mdz_>	like MPEG does when it is at a low bitrate
10:37	<Chutt>	heh
10:38	<Chutt>	tried adjusting brightness/contrast on your tv?
10:38	<mdz_>	not yet, but I would not enjoy having to adjust every time I switch between mythtv and regular TV
10:38	<Chutt>	of course
10:39	<mdz_>	is it possible to set those things on the capture card via a v4l API, or does it have to be done post-capture?
10:40	<Chutt>	yeah, that's part of the v4l api
10:40	<Chutt>	i just don't have any of that hooked up
10:40	<mdz_>	I fixed up my mplayer patch to decode the X frame and set things up from it
10:41	<Chutt>	cool
10:41	<mdz_>	it could use some testing with different parameters; all my recordings are the same
10:41	<Chutt>	heh
10:41	<Chutt>	all mine are 640x480/mpeg4/mp3
10:41	<mdz_>	32khz?
10:41	<Chutt>	yup
10:41	<mdz_>	well great
10:41	<mdz_>	anybody out there NOT using exactly the same settings?
10:41	<Chutt>	doesn't help? =)
10:44	<Chutt>	heh
10:44	<Chutt>	what you can do fairly easily
10:44	<Chutt>	is just change things, watch tv for a few seconds
10:44	<Chutt>	and just try to play the ringbuf.nuv file
10:44	<mdz_>	hmm
10:45	<mdz_>	it always starts from the beginning of ringbuf at the start of live viewing?
10:45	<Chutt>	yup
10:56	<mdz_>	are the nuppelvideo guys interested in adding the stuff that you need to the format spec?
10:56	<Chutt>	i need to email him again
10:56	<Chutt>	i did back in may, no response
10:56	<mdz_>	the web page has said that 0.6 will be out in 3 weeks for some time now
10:56	<Chutt>	oh?
10:57	<mdz_>	the web server says it was last modified Oct 16th though
10:58	<Chutt>	hrm
10:58	<mdz_>	if codec parameters and a seek table were added to the format, that would be handy indeed
10:59	<Chutt>	yeah
10:59	<Chutt>	i'm probably going to add a seek table sometime this week
11:00	<mdz_>	nice
11:00	<mdz_>	my NFS setup will thank you profusely
11:00	<Chutt>	heh
11:01	<Chutt>	it will only really help with seeking forward, of course
11:01	<mdz_>	hmm
11:01	<Chutt>	shall i add an option to only seek to the nearest keyframe while i'm at it?
11:01	<mdz_>	yeah, that would be great too
11:02	<mdz_>	then it wouldn't be too hard to implement rewind and fast forward
11:02	<mdz_>	but with fast seeking maybe I wouldn't miss them
11:02	<Chutt>	what, real rewind and fast forward?
11:03	<mdz_>	continuous, variable-speed
11:03	<Chutt>	yeah
11:03	<mdz_>	rather than just skips
11:03	<Chutt>	it's a little harder than you'd think =)
11:03	<Chutt>	at least with the current setup
11:03	<mdz_>	probably :-)
11:03	<mdz_>	a while back, I got a crash most of the way through a multi-hour recording
11:03	<mdz_>	it would have taken like 15 minutes of skipping to get back to where it stopped
11:03	<Chutt>	heh
11:04	<mdz_>	so I changed the skip time to skip to the point I wanted in one skip
11:04	<Chutt>	have you tried the sticky seek keys?
11:04	<mdz_>	couldn't skip for the rest of the film though :-)
11:04	<mdz_>	I have not
11:04	<Chutt>	heh
11:04	<mdz_>	I was not aware of their existence
11:04	<mdz_>	does it make it toggle a loop?
11:04	<Chutt>	loop?
11:04	<mdz_>	skip -> skip until stopped?
11:05	<Chutt>	yup
11:05	<mdz_>	displaying a single frame for each skip, or what?
11:05	<Chutt>	pretty much
11:05	<Chutt>	really depends on the speed of the box how many frames'll get displayed
11:06	<mdz_>	I see
11:06	<mdz_>	that would be no problem here, of course
11:06	<Chutt>	it just sends seek messages continually
11:06	<mdz_>	because each skip takes 5 seconds
11:06	<Chutt>	heh
11:06	<Chutt>	yeah
11:06	<Chutt>	going to nearest keyframe only, and with a seek table
11:06	<Chutt>	that should help you considerably
11:07	<mdz_>	should make it as good as seeking AVI in mplayer
11:07	<mdz_>	which is plenty
11:07	<mdz_>	I have tried that, and it is quite usable in my setup
11:11	<mdz_>	if Mr. 162112 doesn't respond soon, he may find his ITP hijacked
11:12	<Chutt>	go for it
11:14	-!-	Tuscany [] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
11:14	<Chutt>	heh, why bother waiting? :p
11:16	<mdz_>	well, compared to, say, #68256, it would seem premature
11:16	<mdz_>	1982 days in preparation.
11:17	<mdz_>	yeah, that one's going to happen
11:17	<Chutt>	heh
11:17	<Chutt>	yeah, but it shouldn'tve taken all that long to package
11:18	<mdz_>	no modern program could take 5 years to package :-)
11:19	<mdz_>	the guy who ITP'd xmltv pasted a control file snipped that made it look like he was already done
11:19	<Chutt>	yeah
11:19	<Chutt>	which is why it should be in the distro already
11:19	<mdz_>	I would really, really rather not maintain any more Perl code if I can help it
11:19	<mdz_>	especially not the kind of perl code that lurks in dark corners like xmlt
11:19	<mdz_>	v
11:19	<Chutt>	hehe
11:20	<mdz_>	but I may have to make a sacrifice in the name of mythtv
11:20	* mdz_	stares dramatically into the distance
11:21	<Chutt>	heh
12:11	-!-	tss [] has quit ["bbl"]
12:15	-!-	oztiks [] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net]
12:15	-!-	nyquiljer [] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net]
12:15	-!-	vektor [] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net]
12:15	-!-	Chutt [] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net]
12:15	-!-	oztiks [seth@vaio.off.yewnix.net] has joined #mythtv
12:15	-!-	nyquiljer [jer@12.211.16.232] has joined #mythtv
12:15	-!-	vektor [~vektor@cauchy.theorem.ca] has joined #mythtv
12:15	-!-	Chutt [~bleh@dsl093-011-148.cle1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #mythtv
12:16	<Chutt>	whee.
12:24	<Chutt>	hrm
12:26	<Chutt>	wonder how hard it'd be to whip up a nice tv-based display thingie for ebooks
12:50	<mdz_>	ebooks are awful
12:51	<mdz_>	and I bet the ebook people would make it as difficult as possible for you to whip up a nice display thingie
12:51	<Chutt>	nope
12:51	<Chutt>	the latest david weber book (published by baen)
12:51	<Chutt>	came with a bound-in cdrom
12:52	<Chutt>	with the full text of 20-some other books on it
12:52	<Chutt>	in 4 or 5 formats, all completely unlocked
12:52	<Chutt>	one of the formats being just plain old .rtf
12:53	<Chutt>	and most (all?) of baen's new books have been available like that for a fairly small monthly fee
12:55	<Chutt>	it's something like $15 a month, and you get all the books published that they published new that month
12:58	-!-	Universe [~Yeah@pwc2-hs-nk.bbnplanet.com] has joined #mythtv
13:02	<Chutt>	hrm
13:02	<Chutt>	qt 3.0.6 release a few days ago
13:06	<Chutt>	hrm, nothing interesting fixed, though
13:08	<Universe>	so... not worth updating
13:08	<Chutt>	not worth going out of your way for, at least
13:17	<vektor>	re
13:54	-!-	Tuscany0_ [~username@66.54.186.1] has joined #mythtv
14:20	-!-	TechJosh [~noone@ip68-7-170-10.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #mythtv
14:28	<mdz_>	ah, I wouldn't consider those ebooks
14:28	<mdz_>	ebook typically means evil copy protection crap
14:28	<mdz_>	which cripples legitimate use
14:31	<Chutt>	true
14:31	<Chutt>	so should i take that guy up on his offer of a g200tv in exchange for supporting it?
14:52	<Universe>	welll
14:52	<Universe>	he said he wanted it back after you get it working
14:52	<Chutt>	no, this is another guy
14:52	<Universe>	oh
14:52	<mdz_>	what does he want you to support?
14:52	<mdz_>	capture from it?
14:52	<Chutt>	yeah
14:53	<Universe>	go for it...
14:53	<mdz_>	I don't think the marvel.sourceforge.net guys have gotten that to work
14:55	<mdz_>	they have some talk about v4l though
14:55	<Chutt>	well, he said the mjpeg capture works
14:56	<mdz_>	yeah, I am reading this now:
14:56	<mdz_>	http://cvs.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/viewcvs.cgi/marvel/driver/README?rev=1.23&content-type=text/vnd.viewcvs-markup
14:56	<mdz_>	whoa, matrox released the specs for the tvout chip??
14:56	<mdz_>	I might need to get myself one of those
14:57	<mdz_>	ATI refuses to do that
14:57	<Chutt>	heh
14:57	<Chutt>	ah well, i just emailed him and said i'd do what i could to get it supported
14:58	<vektor>	heya
14:58	<vektor>	mdz: matrox didn't release specs for the tvout chip
14:58	<vektor>	unless they just did :)
14:58	<TechJosh>	Hi, I'm new to linux and havent tried installing MythTV yet, but I wanted to say that I am following this project with great interest... from the screenshots I've seen, this is the best PVR software available for linux.
15:00	<Chutt>	thanks.
15:01	<vektor>	mdz: There's nothing in that README that seems to indicate that they released tvout specs.
15:03	<mdz_>	vektor: under Extra
15:04	<mdz_>	it seems to imply that
15:04	<mdz_>	or maybe I'm misreading it
15:04	<mdz_>	it looked like question/answer
15:04	<vektor>	you're misreading it
15:05	<vektor>	there are specs for the G400 and i can dcc them to you
15:05	<mdz_>	but maybe he is just asking "Anyone know if the Maven TVOut spec is available anywhere?" and then going on about unrelated specs
15:05	<vektor>	there are no specs for the tv out chip
15:05	<vektor>	he's asking
15:05	<mdz_>	ok, I feel better now :-)
15:05	<vektor>	it's really shitty
15:05	<vektor>	see this:
15:05	<vektor>	http://vektor.theorem.ca/graphics/tvout/
15:05	<-- TechJosh	has quit ()
15:05	<mdz_>	is it the same macrovision bullshit?
15:07	<vektor>	i think so
15:07	<vektor>	but
15:07	<vektor>	the driver in directfb kicks ass
15:07	<vektor>	and we can port it to X if you want
15:07	<vektor>	but it's only for the G400
15:07	<vektor>	not for G450/G550
15:08	<vektor>	however, we _may_ be able to get a driver for that
15:08	<vektor>	like, don't tell anyone, but someone has been passing around source for the HAL lib.
15:08	<vektor>	shhhhh
15:08	<vektor>	super-secret.
15:08	<mdz_>	HAL?
15:08	<vektor>	so that may be the key to get it all working.
15:08	<vektor>	yeah
15:08	<vektor>	matrox's binary driver
15:08	<vektor>	but you didn't hear that from me
15:09	<mdz_>	the GATOS stuff uses VBE to enable TV out currently
15:09	<mdz_>	but there is a guy who is reverse-engineering the registers to set it up right
15:10	<mdz_>	I haven't been following his work because the VESA stuff is good enough for me to worry about other parts of my system for a while
15:10	<vektor>	i have high quality requirements for my tv output
15:10	<vektor>	so i'm really really happy with the situation with the matrox card
15:10	<vektor>	since i have like perfect quality now
15:10	<vektor>	reverse engineering is difficult
15:10	<vektor>	i have the specs for some of the tvout chips used on nvidia OEM cards
15:10	<vektor>	see http://nv-tv-out.sf.net
15:11	<vektor>	but some of them are total crap
15:11	<vektor>	no interrupt per field!
15:11	<vektor>	so it's useless if you want to get the quality of like a hardware DVD player
15:11	<vektor>	you'll never make it
15:11	<vektor>	like that's kind of my quality requirement
15:11	<vektor>	if the TV out looks worse than my hardware dvd player, fuck it, i'll just go buy a player :(
15:11	<vektor>	but i really want to do my OSD and stuff, but i don't want to give up quality because of it
15:12	<Chutt>	heh
15:12	<Chutt>	that's the main reason i don't have a button call some dvd player program
15:13	<vektor>	you should try my dvd player
15:13	<vektor>	it kicks if your output is a CRT ;)
15:16	-!-	TechJosh [~root@ip68-7-170-10.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #mythtv
15:17	<Chutt>	techjosh, it's probably a bad idea to irc as root
15:17	<TechJosh>	yeah, i know
15:18	<TechJosh>	im just lazy
15:20	<mdz_>	vektor: how is it doing tv-out now?
15:20	<mdz_>	Chutt: what reason is that? quality? or OSD?
15:21	<vektor>	mdz: How is what doing tv-out ?
15:21	<vektor>	mdz: How is DirectFB doing it, or the HAL lib?
15:22	<Chutt>	mdz, my hardware dvd player's much bettter than any software player in linux that i've seen
15:22	<Chutt>	so, i can't be bothered to add a simple little button to mythtv for it just yet =)
15:23	<vektor>	Chutt: exactly.
15:23	<vektor>	well if your output is a TV I can believe that.
15:23	<Chutt>	even to a monitor
15:23	<vektor>	movietime (my DVD player) blows away my hardware DVD player if my 3:2 pulldown is working.
15:23	<vektor>	like, 24fps progressive, correctly amortized, is stunning.
15:24	<vektor>	all the windows dvd players seem to take the safe way out though and deinterlace to 29.97fps anyhting that is interlaced.
15:24	<mdz_>	vektor: directfb
15:25	<vektor>	mdz: well it just has its own driver code, plus it uses a small patch to the matroxfb kernel module to get an interrupt for the second crtc
15:25	<vektor>	like same as X would do, minus the interrupt code, which we can do our own kernel module for.
15:26	<vektor>	the other thing about directfb though is that your application calls the driver code directly, so it's completely unsafe but you can at least get a pointer to video memory.
15:26	<vektor>	and that really helps your speed
15:26	<vektor>	fucking X :)
15:28	<mdz_>	I'm not worried about anything better than TV quality, as my only video output is a TV
15:28	<mdz_>	I don't have a hardware DVD player to compare to, but DVD playback looks damn good
15:29	<vektor>	using what player?
15:29	<mdz_>	mplayer
15:29	<vektor>	i find it difficult to demonstrate what i mean by good or bad
15:29	<vektor>	i mean if you were here right now i could show you exactly what i mean
15:30	<vektor>	but trying to guess what it looks like for you is impossible
15:30	<mdz_>	likewise for you
15:30	<vektor>	so you're using tvout with your ati card?
15:30	<mdz_>	send me a VHS cassette demonstrating the difference :-P
15:30	<vektor>	and mplayer is outputting to that?
15:30	<mdz_>	yep
15:30	<vektor>	and you're playing DVDs?
15:30	<mdz_>	yep
15:30	<vektor>	if you're playing a dvd it's likely encoded at 24fps progressive
15:30	<vektor>	since i assume you're in NTSC-land
15:30	<mdz_>	I am
15:31	<vektor>	so then you're not likely to see much judder
15:31	<vektor>	the only issue is resolution which you probably also won't notice
15:31	<vektor>	so yeah, for most DVDs the quality in that setup should be 'ok' so long as the tv encoder doesn't tear and flips on 59.94fps boundaries
15:31	<vektor>	i'm talking about like quality on more difficult DVDs
15:32	<vektor>	like anything that's video-source
15:32	<vektor>	so, my Bjork music video DVD, or my copy of Transformers: The Movie
15:32	<vektor>	or even any of the documentaries on all the DVDs I have with 'making-of' specials.
15:33	<vektor>	if you play anything like that in your setup, you'll either see a) jerky motion, b) poor vertical resolution quality, or c) jumpy crap.
15:33	<mdz_>	If I want to watch videos, I have a VCR
15:33	<vektor>	similarily, if you have like a separate capture card from your tv output card and you try to do pass-thru it will also suck
15:33	<Chutt>	hrm
15:34	<Chutt>	i wonder
15:34	<vektor>	Chutt: do you concur with my assessment?
15:34	<Chutt>	getting xmltv installed is the biggest hurdle to all this crap
15:34	<mdz_>	if I just want to pass-through, the ATI card does that nicely via XV and I don't need to mess with the capture card
15:34	<Chutt>	now, you _can_ compile perl code, right?
15:34	<mdz_>	Chutt: you _can_, but working is another story
15:34	<mdz_>	I don't know how it handles modules
15:35	<Chutt>	well, the windows xmltv stuff is distributed as an exe
15:35	<mdz_>	man perlcc
15:35	<mdz_>	The code generated in this way is not guaranteed to work. The whole
15:35	<mdz_>	codegen suite ("perlcc" included) should be considered very experimen-
15:35	<mdz_>	tal. Use for production purposes is strongly discouraged.
15:35	<Chutt>	yeah, but if i made it available, etc.
15:35	<Chutt>	say 'use only if you can't install xmltv normally'
15:36	<vektor>	so xmltv just sucks the bag in your opinion?
15:36	<Chutt>	it'd be nice if it were easier
15:36	<mdz_>	I don't see what the trouble is of installing XMLTV with CPAN
15:36	<vektor>	don't you just 'apt-get install xmltv'? i haven't really looked into how it works...
15:36	<mdz_>	you could pretty much script it
15:36	<Chutt>	i dunno what other people's problems with it are either =)
15:36	<Chutt>	but that's the #1 thing i get emails about
15:37	<mdz_>	use CPAN; install blahblah
15:37	<vektor>	mdz: so you think my search for high quality tv output is ridiculous?
15:38	<mdz_>	vektor: re: apt-get, not quite yet: bugs.debian.org/162112
15:38	<mdz_>	vektor: I'm not judging anyone else's quest :-)
15:38	<Chutt>	heh
15:39	<vektor>	mdz: i'm just curious.
15:39	<mdz_>	vektor: of course not
15:39	<Chutt>	perlcc makes a 9.4MB stripped binary of tv_grab_na
15:39	<Chutt>	that's hilarious =)
15:39	<mdz_>	vektor: I hope to benefit from your obsessions :-)
15:40	<mdz_>	but personally, I only have two levels of concern for video quality
15:40	<vektor>	mdz: i guess i just find it annoying that some people seem to have 'awesome tv output' but that whenever i try it it looks like crap.
15:40	<mdz_>	digital all the way through to pixel-exact output
15:40	<mdz_>	and "good enough"
15:41	<vektor>	well like to me, it's not "good enough" if whenever there's a pan in a movie it jumps like you're on a bumpy busride
15:41	<mdz_>	what I have now is about as good as I expect from my television set for the kind of things that I watch
15:41	<vektor>	and i don't mean like little sutters that people don't notice, i mean big jumps
15:41	<vektor>	like, i don't see how _anyone_ can watch tv using xawtv for example
15:42	<vektor>	like i'm just wondering why everything looks like shit for me and everyone else seems to say 'ah, good enough'.
15:42	<vektor>	is it that my configuration is that wrong? should i go out and buy an ATI card?
15:42	<vektor>	or is it really that i just have high expectations for quality
15:42	<mdz_>	dunno, I have no idea how things look to you
15:43	<mdz_>	but I figure that if I want quality, I'll get a digital display
15:43	<vektor>	and how will you output to that?
15:43	<mdz_>	if and when they are reasonably priced
15:44	<vektor>	like is there some magic tv that has vga in and can multisync?
15:44	<vektor>	and if you had that, how would you do framerate conversion?
15:44	<mdz_>	framerate?
15:44	<vektor>	yes, for deinterlacing!
15:44	<mdz_>	DVI output
15:44	<vektor>	ok, dude, you have a 29.97 _interlaced_ DVD
15:44	<vektor>	how is your magic DVI output going to handle that?
15:45	<vektor>	i'm just curious :)
15:45	<mdz_>	<vektor> and how will you output to that?
15:45	<mdz_>	I was just answering your question
15:45	<vektor>	ig
15:45	<vektor>	oh
15:45	<vektor>	sorry :)
15:45	<vektor>	anyway i know what you mean
15:45	<vektor>	tv output is supposed to suck ass
15:45	<vektor>	so who cares
15:45	<vektor>	i dunno
15:46	<mdz_>	yeah, I guess I just have low expectations for it
15:46	<mdz_>	but I'm a digital bigot
15:46	<vektor>	but you have alot (all?) the same issues with a digital output too
15:46	<vektor>	since you need to deinterlace
15:46	<vektor>	and it's fucking hard
15:46	<vektor>	and you still need vbi sync
15:46	<mdz_>	vbi?
15:46	<vektor>	yeah the vsync interrupt
15:47	<vektor>	whatever you want to call it
15:47	<vektor>	vertical blanking interval interrupt
15:47	<vektor>	however you like to think of it
15:48	<mdz_>	sync what against what?
15:48	<vektor>	well, what refresh rate will your digital output run at?
15:48	<vektor>	and how will you amortize your frames across it?
15:49	<vektor>	like right now, with tvtime, we have this problem.
15:49	<vektor>	my output is a CRT, it's not digital but close enough, and it's very hard to get high quality.
15:49	<vektor>	because of framerate conversion problem.s
15:50	<vektor>	dvd output to tv is really nice since you're guarenteed a very specific refresh rate from the output device
15:50	<mdz_>	my ideal digital output would translate video memory writes directly to the output signal, so there wouldn't be a refresh
15:50	<vektor>	(or if you're a hardware dvd player, it's even better, since you get to generate the vbis)
15:51	<mdz_>	turn on this pixel or that
15:51	<vektor>	well that would be ideal, wouldn't it.
15:51	<vektor>	i don't think dvi works that way :)
15:51	<mdz_>	I'm not sure how it works
15:51	<vektor>	oh well
15:51	<vektor>	i get your point though.
15:51	<mdz_>	or how its successor will work
15:51	<TechJosh>	have you tried running your signal through a time base corrector?
15:51	<vektor>	ideally we wouldn't need to think about this.
15:51	<mdz_>	or whenever digital video actually happens
15:52	<vektor>	digital video has happened.
15:52	<mdz_>	bah
15:52	<vektor>	sorry.
15:52	<vektor>	1080i is here.
15:52	<mdz_>	i......
15:52	<vektor>	still need to deal with framerate conversion for PC applications though.
15:52	<vektor>	yeah
15:52	<vektor>	i
15:52	<vektor>	i is great in many cases.
15:52	<mdz_>	i sounds like a pain in the ass
15:53	<vektor>	it is if you're a PC
15:53	<vektor>	since you have no control over the output refresh
15:53	<vektor>	like if you want to output to a stupid LCD panel or a projector
15:53	<vektor>	or even with a consumer video card
15:53	<vektor>	it's just a design flaw
15:53	<vektor>	PC ahrdware isn't designed for video.
15:54	<vektor>	that's all.
15:54	<Chutt>	wc -l tv_grab_na.c
15:54	<Chutt>	410053 tv_grab_na.c
15:54	<vektor>	ahahha
15:54	<Chutt>	ah well
15:55	<Chutt>	mdz, if i just had .debs of everything... =)
15:55	<mdz_>	Chutt: if somebody would send me some hardware... =)
15:55	<mdz_>	the hardware bribery system has been successful in the past
15:55	<mdz_>	for getting software written
15:55	<Chutt>	well
15:55	<vektor>	mdz: do you see what i mean or am i on crack?
15:55	<Chutt>	if i really, really wanted em, i'd just do debs myself
15:55	<mdz_>	vektor: I understand
15:56	<vektor>	ok ret
15:56	<vektor>	reet
15:56	<vektor>	mdz: you should try tvtime sometime :)
15:56	<mdz_>	vektor: but the system as a whole seems so clunky to me that I don't complain if I think it could look metter
15:56	<mdz_>	vektor: I will
15:56	<vektor>	coo
15:56	<mdz_>	s/metter/better/
15:57	<vektor>	what's the autoconf variable for the toplevel source directory?
15:57	<Chutt>	AUTOCONF_IS_EVIL?
15:58	<vektor>	yeah nevermind :)
15:59	<mdz_>	vektor: $(top_srcdir)
16:00	<vektor>	mdz: thanks!
16:39	<-- TechJosh	(~root@ip68-7-170-10.sd.sd.cox.net) has left #mythtv
16:44	-!-	TechJosh [~noone@ip68-7-170-10.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #mythtv
17:29	<-- TechJosh	has quit ()
17:31	-!-	TechJosh [~root@ip68-7-170-10.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #mythtv
18:02	-!-	TechJosh [] has quit ["using sirc version 2.211+KSIRC/1.2.1"]
18:21	<oztiks>	Chutt: you bastardized my faq! ;P
18:23	<Chutt>	heh, yes, yes i did :p
18:34	<oztiks>	hehe
18:53	-!-	skitzo [seth@vaio.off.yewnix.net] has joined #Mythtv
18:53	-!-	oztiks [] has quit [Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)]
18:56	-!-	TechJosh [~root@ip68-7-170-10.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #mythtv
19:16	-!-	TardisX [~justin@weasel.internode.com.au] has joined #mythtv
19:36	<Chutt>	well, that was easy
19:36	<Chutt>	saves a seek table
19:36	<Chutt>	now i just have to parse it in
19:50	<-- TechJosh	(~root@ip68-7-170-10.sd.sd.cox.net) has left #mythtv
19:58	-!-	TechJosh [~noone@ip68-7-170-10.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #mythtv
20:33	<Chutt>	mdz, so, me not being all that familiar with nfs
20:34	<Chutt>	will seeking to the end of the file to read in the seektable kill things?
20:35	<skitzo>	regarding NFS? assuming -i- understand your question, no
20:36	<Chutt>	like, it won't decide to transfer all the file or anything stupid like that
20:36	<skitzo>	no - it shouldnt =)
20:36	<skitzo>	'try and see' ;P
20:36	<Chutt>	heh
20:36	<skitzo>	(seriously)
20:36	<skitzo>	heh
20:36	<Chutt>	well, i don't have enough room on my webserver to stick a large enough file
20:36	<skitzo>	oh
20:36	<skitzo>	well
20:36	<skitzo>	if you can throw me a piece of code
20:36	<skitzo>	that'll do it
20:36	<skitzo>	i can run it real fast
20:36	<Chutt>	it'll be in cvs soon enough
20:43	-!-	TechJosh [] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
20:51	-!-	kleetus [~kleetus@ip68-3-180-244.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #mythtv
20:54	<vektor>	Chutt: i have some psycho code in tvime now for crazy PAL modes and stuff
20:54	<vektor>	Chutt: you might want to leech
20:54	<Universe>	psycho code doesn't sound like something usable..
20:55	<Universe>	phat code on the other hand...
21:07	-!-	skitzo [] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net]
21:07	-!-	Universe [] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net]
21:07	-!-	TardisX [] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net]
21:07	-!-	nyquiljer [] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net]
21:07	-!-	vektor [] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net]
21:07	-!-	Chutt [] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net]
21:07	-!-	Tuscany0_ [] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net]
21:07	-!-	mdz [] has quit [calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net]
21:08	-!-	TardisX [~justin@weasel.internode.com.au] has joined #mythtv
21:08	-!-	skitzo [seth@vaio.off.yewnix.net] has joined #mythtv
21:08	-!-	Tuscany0_ [~username@66.54.186.1] has joined #mythtv
21:08	-!-	Universe [~Yeah@pwc2-hs-nk.bbnplanet.com] has joined #mythtv
21:08	-!-	Chutt [~bleh@dsl093-011-148.cle1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #mythtv
21:08	-!-	vektor [~vektor@cauchy.theorem.ca] has joined #mythtv
21:08	-!-	nyquiljer [jer@12.211.16.232] has joined #mythtv
21:08	-!-	mdz [~mdz@209-6-103-23.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #mythtv
21:24	<mdz>	Chutt: yeah, that's no problem re: NFS
21:25	<Chutt>	heh
21:25	<Chutt>	didn't think so, but
21:25	<Chutt>	anyway
21:26	<Chutt>	this is weird
21:26	<mdz>	the elusive xmltv ITPer responded
21:26	<Chutt>	i've got an occasional hang on exiting a playback
21:26	<mdz>	he has an apt repository set up with some packages
21:26	<Chutt>	ah
21:26	<Chutt>	cool
21:27	<Chutt>	what bug # was that again?
21:27	<mdz>	162112
21:27	<mdz>	man, we are going to hit 200k soon
21:28	<Chutt>	time for a big slashdot story
21:28	<Chutt>	"DEBIAN HAS 200,000 BUGS"
21:28	<mdz>	hah
21:28	<mdz>	BUGGIEST DISTRO EVER
21:28	<Chutt>	i dunno
21:29	<mdz>	hmm, I've never uninstalled a module with CPAN before
21:29	<mdz>	does it clean up after itself?
21:29	<mdz>	is this playback hang new with the stuff you added today?
21:30	<Chutt>	no, it's new with the fix for the segfault
21:30	<mdz>	ah
21:30	<Chutt>	it's _looking_ like the mutex lock i added is getting corrupted somehow
21:30	<mdz>	hmm
21:30	<Chutt>	heh, he's still using xmltv 0.5
21:33	<Chutt>	ah well
21:33	<Chutt>	if it works
21:33	<Chutt>	hrmph
21:33	<mdz>	crap
21:33	<mdz>	is it even possible to uninstall this stuff? hmm
21:33	<Chutt>	i just deleted the cpan-installed stuff from the perl lib/ dir
21:33	<mdz>	it may be time to rm -rf /usr/local/lib/perl
21:34	<Chutt>	that's essentially what i did
21:34	<mdz>	it saves a packing list, no?
21:34	<mdz>	what's the point of that if it can't uninstall?
21:34	<Chutt>	i have no idea
21:34	<Chutt>	blah
21:34	<Chutt>	this is annoying
21:35	<Chutt>	i can't figure out how this thing's getting corrupted
21:35	<mdz>	what sort of corruption are you seeing?
21:35	<Chutt>	well
21:35	<Chutt>	nothing can be holding the lock
21:35	<Chutt>	but the lock says its held
21:35	<mdz>	man, I'm having to upgrade this system to perl 5.8 now
21:35	<mdz>	I might as well just run unstable on it
21:35	<Chutt>	heh
21:35	<Chutt>	yeah
21:35	<Chutt>	is x 4.2 in testing yet?
21:36	<Chutt>	unless pthread_mutex_trylock is messing up
21:36	<Chutt>	hm
21:38	<mdz>	nope
21:38	-!-	Tuscany0_ [] has quit [Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)]
21:38	<mdz>	if it builds on arm it could go in tomorrow
21:38	<mdz>	ah, it did build on arm
21:38	<mdz>	on oct 20
21:38	<Chutt>	heh
21:39	<mdz>	it's not trylock that's hanging, is it?
21:39	<mdz>	just a plain lock?
21:39	<Chutt>	yeah
21:39	<Chutt>	actually, i should just move the locking up a level
21:39	<Chutt>	wouldn't need the trylock then
21:41	<mdz>	how does mythfilldatabase decide which days to grab?
21:41	<mdz>	it has been weirding me out
21:41	<Chutt>	heh
21:41	<Chutt>	it always grabs the next day
21:41	<mdz>	hmm
21:41	<Chutt>	then goes through today through a week from now, and grabs that day if there's no data in the database
21:41	<mdz>	so it always gets each day's data twice?
21:42	<mdz>	once ahead of time, and once the day before?
21:42	<Chutt>	right
21:42	<mdz>	ok, so this is normal :-)
21:42	<Chutt>	it's to catch any scheduling changes that happen
21:43	<mdz>	makes sense
21:43	<mdz>	confusing as hell though
21:43	<mdz>	I guess it's better to grab before midnight then, rather than after. I've started doing that anyway
21:44	<Chutt>	i've got it cronned for 11:30
21:44	<mdz>	yeah, I'm doing 11:00 right now
21:44	<mdz>	sometimes it's _slow_ and I didn't want it to run over
21:45	<Chutt>	ah
21:45	<-- nyquiljer	(jer@12.211.16.232) has left #mythtv
21:45	<Chutt>	yeah
21:45	<mdz>	especially since I wasn't sure if it actually had data for the next day, based on the output, and hadn't bothered to find out
21:45	<Chutt>	at least zap2it's not as slow as tvguide.com =)
21:45	<mdz>	never used them
21:45	<mdz>	are you still planning on making a 0.7 release soon?
21:46	<Chutt>	well
21:46	<Chutt>	if thor updates mythweb, yeah
21:47	<Chutt>	if not, i dunno
21:48	<Chutt>	fairly soon, anyway
21:49	<Chutt>	hrm
21:49	<Chutt>	this new locking seems to work
21:50	<Chutt>	and it's simpler, too
21:50	<Chutt>	hate doing something the hard way, then figuring out an easy way to do it later
21:50	<mdz>	heh
21:50	<Chutt>	anyway
21:50	<Chutt>	the seek table works
21:50	<mdz>	nice
21:50	<Chutt>	just going to add the inexact skips
21:50	<mdz>	what's the granularity?
21:51	<Chutt>	30 frames, same as before
21:51	<mdz>	that should be a great improvement for me
21:51	<Chutt>	it adds 42 kB per hour to the file, though =)
21:52	<vektor>	brutal!
21:52	<vektor>	;)
21:52	<mdz>	oh dear
21:53	<mdz>	this bash is unhappy
21:53	<mdz>	anytime I type a command not in PATH, it gives a bus error
21:53	<Chutt>	heh
21:53	<mdz>	smells like glibc upgrade
21:53	<Chutt>	glibc update?
21:53	<Chutt>	hah
21:55	<Chutt>	hrm
21:55	<Chutt>	i think i shall default exact seeks to off
21:55	<mdz>	oh man, this box is hosed
21:56	<mdz>	if anyone is thinking about upgrading glibc 2.2 -> 2.3 and then back down and back up again...
21:56	<mdz>	...well, don't
21:56	<-- Universe	has quit ()
21:57	<Chutt>	heh
21:58	<Chutt>	a reboot doesn't clear it all out?
21:58	<mdz>	I am having to do that now
21:58	<mdz>	I have no console on this machine really, so there's not much I can do
21:58	<mdz>	all I have are the remote control buttons, and not many unix commands can be typed with 0-9 and a-f
21:59	<Chutt>	heh
21:59	<mdz>	I have a spacebar bound for myth, though
21:59	<Chutt>	i was thinking earlier
21:59	<Chutt>	most of my users probably use it all more than i do
21:59	<Chutt>	i need to fix that
22:00	<mdz>	use what?
22:00	<Chutt>	mythtv
22:00	<mdz>	ah :-)
22:00	<mdz>	this NFS root stuff is tricky sometimes
22:00	<mdz>	for example, I can't use dhcp-client
22:01	<Chutt>	ah
22:01	<mdz>	because it brings down the network interface, does the protocol, then tries to run dhclient-script :-)
22:01	<mdz>	which of course is not available because the network interface is down
22:01	<Chutt>	couldn't stick that all in a ramdisk?
22:01	<mdz>	I could, I'm thinking about it
22:01	<mdz>	it would be nice if dhcp-client would actually configure the interface itself instead of using some damn shell script
22:01	<mdz>	I should use udhcpc or something
22:02	<mdz>	I'm going to try that as long as I'm bringing it down
22:02	<mdz>	it bugs me that my lease goes away and my dynamic DNS goes away
22:09	-!-	witten [~witten@sdsl-64-32-131-193.dsl.lax.megapath.net] has joined #mythtv
22:10	<witten>	does mythtv record tv to disk?
22:11	<kleetus>	to hard disk, yes
22:13	<witten>	cool
22:13	<witten>	I'll have to try that out
22:18	<Chutt>	heh
22:18	<Chutt>	what would be the point otherwise? =)
22:18	<witten>	I didn't know if that feature had been implemented yet
22:19	<mdz>	Chutt: I have Kenneth's xmltv packages and my mythtv package running now
22:19	<Chutt>	mdz, neat?
22:19	<Chutt>	err, no ?
22:20	<Chutt>	what's the user have to do to set things up by themselves?
22:21	<mdz>	Chutt: 1. apt-get install mythtv mysql-server 2. create and populate the database 3. mythfrontend
22:21	<mdz>	pretty much
22:21	<Chutt>	hrm
22:22	<Chutt>	can the db creation be in the packaging?
22:22	<mdz>	it can
22:22	<Chutt>	i dunno if there's precedent for that or not
22:22	<mdz>	but I'll have to add prompting and such for it
22:22	<mdz>	there is
22:22	<Chutt>	ah
22:22	<mdz>	a bunch of web apps and such do it, like bugzilla
22:22	<Chutt>	well, cool
22:22	<mdz>	there's no standard tool for it, though. I wrote one for work, maybe I'll package it up
22:22	<witten>	mdz: where does one apt-get install mythtv from?
22:22	<Chutt>	ack, brb
22:22	<mdz>	witten: nowhere yet, I'll be putting the packages up soon
22:22	<mdz>	witten: are you interested in testing?
22:23	<witten>	is there a debian directory in the tarball?
22:23	<witten>	mdz: sure
22:23	<mdz>	no there is not; I've been building preliminary packages though
22:23	<witten>	oh ok
22:24	<witten>	mysql only? no postgres?
22:28	<mdz>	currently I believe everyone is using mysql. I'm not sure whether there is anything mysql-specific, though
22:28	<mdz>	it's using QT's crazy SQL absraction layer that I know nothing about
22:28	<mdz>	but there is a postgresql plugin for it
22:28	<witten>	oh, heh
22:30	-!-	Universe [~uni@6532175hfc29.tampabay.rr.com] has joined #mythtv
22:31	<Chutt>	i don't know if there's anything mysql specific in the queries
22:31	<witten>	will the deb eventually make its way into unstable?
22:31	<Chutt>	doubt it
22:31	<mdz>	Chutt: how would you feel about versioning libmyth by release, i.e. libmyth-0.6.so rather than libmyth.so.0.6?
22:31	<Chutt>	hrm
22:31	<Chutt>	well
22:31	<Chutt>	i _hope_ to have it stable eventually
22:32	<Chutt>	but for now? sure
22:32	<mdz>	then it could live in /usr/lib
22:32	<mdz>	and I wouldn't have to use ugly wrapper scripts
22:32	<Chutt>	heh
22:32	<Chutt>	ok
22:32	<Chutt>	i'll make that change
22:32	<mdz>	great, thanks
22:32	<Chutt>	and i'll be checking the seek stuff in after CSI's over
22:33	<TardisX>	what does the seek stuff do for us laymen?
22:33	<mdz>	it makes things go
22:33	<Chutt>	just some speedups
22:33	<TardisX>	in seeking I guess?
22:33	<Chutt>	especially for people that are nfs mounting things =)
22:33	<Chutt>	yes
22:33	<TardisX>	sweet
22:33	<TardisX>	will it make it easier for arbitary seeking in the recording?
22:34	<Chutt>	yeah
22:34	<TardisX>	sweet++ :-)
22:34