TheGrebs.com:IRC Logs:#mythtv:2002:10:23

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10:28	<tss>	howdy
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12:52	-!-	Universe [~Yeah@pwc2-hs-nk.bbnplanet.com] has joined #mythtv
13:07	<Universe>	anyone using an ATI card in here?
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13:50	<Universe>	hey skitzo..
13:51	<mdz_>	Universe: I'm using an ATI card
14:03	<Universe>	AIW or just a ATI TV card?
14:40	-!-	OrangeSun [~orangey@London-HSE-ppp3539306.sympatico.ca] has joined #mythtv
14:40	<OrangeSun>	hmmm.
14:40	<OrangeSun>	for some reason, my mythtv won't go beyond channel 125..
14:40	<OrangeSun>	even though I'm using a satellite!
14:40	<OrangeSun>	any idea why?
14:41	<Universe>	TV turner limitation?
14:44	<OrangeSun>	well, yeah.. my tv tuner is limited to 125 channels!
14:44	<OrangeSun>	but this thing shouldn't be using my tuner at all!
14:45	<Universe>	what?
14:45	<mdz_>	Universe: AIW
14:46	<Universe>	mythtv uses your turn for channels
14:46	<Universe>	tuner
14:47	<Universe>	mdz_: Are you using the km driver?
14:47	<OrangeSun>	universe: well, how do people use satellite then?
14:47	<OrangeSun>	satellite STARTS at 100!
14:48	<mdz_>	Universe: yes, but not exclusively
14:48	<mdz_>	and not with mythtv yet
14:49	<Universe>	ahh.. ok
14:49	<mdz_>	OrangeSun: you use your satellite tuner
14:50	<OrangeSun>	mdz: this is how it goes: I want mythtv to run a program (change #) whenever I put in a channel number..
14:50	<OrangeSun>	and it does
14:50	<OrangeSun>	but ONLY all the way up to 125!
14:50	<OrangeSun>	so, the tuner is restricting my ability to change channels with my satellite tuner..
14:50	<OrangeSun>	therefore I can't use the ep guide.
14:50	<OrangeSun>	I can't record..
14:50	<OrangeSun>	it all stinks : )
14:52	<mdz_>	OrangeSun: aha
14:52	<OrangeSun>	mdz: but there must be some way to disable the tuner restriction.. I mean, people use this thing to watch satellite!
14:53	<OrangeSun>	and there isn't a tuner in the western hemisphere programmed to go to 999
14:53	<mdz_>	OrangeSun: how are you defining the channels in mythtv?
14:53	<mdz_>	OrangeSun: are you using xmltv?
14:53	<OrangeSun>	mdz: indeed.
14:54	<OrangeSun>	and xmltv goes all the way up into like 800..
14:54	<mdz_>	OrangeSun: so you have all of those channels in your channel table?
14:54	<OrangeSun>	mdz: where's my channel table? moment lemme go check with phpadmin
14:55	<mdz_>	OrangeSun: in the database
14:55	<OrangeSun>	yep. they are all ther.. and show up in mythepg
14:56	<mdz_>	are you using the cable input on your capture card, or S-video?
14:56	<OrangeSun>	the Composite..
14:56	<mdz_>	hmm
14:57	<mdz_>	I will be trying this with my AIW card pretty soon maybe
14:57	<mdz_>	that is, once I get hold of some kind of IR transmitter I can use to control my digital cable tuner
14:57	<mdz_>	what are you using?
14:58	<OrangeSun>	I'm using a heppauge.
14:58	<OrangeSun>	I am currently the IR transmitter : )
14:58	<OrangeSun>	but I want to build something..
14:59	<mdz_>	heh, so your external program says "hey you, change the channel!" or something?
15:00	<OrangeSun>	actually, it currently just echos : )
15:02	<mdz_>	are you using CVS mythtv?
15:02	<OrangeSun>	nope.
15:02	<OrangeSun>	should I be?
15:02	<mdz_>	dunno, it's just what I happen to be looking at
15:02	<mdz_>	I don't see any reason why it shouldn't work
15:03	<OrangeSun>	do I get the MC part of the cvs tree?
15:03	<mdz_>	what does it do when you try to change the channel past 125?
15:03	<mdz_>	does it call your program at all?
15:03	<OrangeSun>	nope. I don't believe so..
15:03	<OrangeSun>	but it definitely is calling my program before then..
15:04	<OrangeSun>	let's see if the CVS fixes it..
15:04	<OrangeSun>	ooooh. mythweb..
15:04	<OrangeSun>	looks interesting : )
15:20	<mdz_>	as far as I see, it just checks whether it has an entry in the channel table
15:37	<OrangeSun>	alright.. gonna run the cvs and see..
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16:25	<blinx>	hola
16:36	<Universe>	hey blinx
17:19	<Universe>	damn XMLTV and its perl modules it needs
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17:31	<OrangeSun>	hmmmmmm... Universe: i'm trying the CVS, but it still has the same problem!
17:32	<Universe>	you said you are manually changing the channel and you are using the s-video input?
17:35	<OrangeSun>	Universe: yeah.
17:35	<OrangeSun>	all I want is the info..
17:35	<OrangeSun>	so, say I type in 100, that works..
17:35	<OrangeSun>	but anythign above, it doesn't..
17:35	<OrangeSun>	here's something interesting..
17:36	<OrangeSun>	when I take out all the channels except for, say, channel 500, it says that there are NO channels, and that something must be missing in the database!
17:36	<mdz_>	is there anything different about the database records for the higher-numbered channels?
17:36	<OrangeSun>	not that I see..
17:36	<Universe>	that makes it should like mythtv only checks up to channel 125
17:37	<OrangeSun>	oh wait.. quick q..
17:37	<Universe>	err it sound like
17:37	<OrangeSun>	would you mind opening up yours and taking a look?
17:37	<Universe>	if I wasn't at work, I would OrangeSun..
17:37	<OrangeSun>	uni: no prob..
17:38	<OrangeSun>	I wonder if there is a limit to the "chanid" numbers..
17:39	<OrangeSun>	like if they can't be 4 integers or something..
17:39	<OrangeSun>	Anyway, we can speculate all we want.. but it'll take isaacs to sort this out probably : )
17:42	<Universe>	the source would sort it out also
18:30	<OrangeSun>	well, it seems that in other instances when people have had this problem it has been because the source was not setup correctly..
18:30	<OrangeSun>	anyway, I may remake the database and see
18:38	<skitzo>	OrangeSun: and luck yet?
18:44	<OrangeSun>	skitzo: not really, no.
18:45	<skitzo>	doh
18:48	<skitzo>	for the sake of humanity i wish he'd relo the site
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19:08	<karjala>	hi
19:09	<skitzo>	hi
19:10	<karjala>	hi skitz
19:10	<karjala>	how's it going?
19:10	<karjala>	is mythtv really working?
19:10	<skitzo>	ok, you?
19:10	<skitzo>	uh, i think so
19:10	<karjala>	:-) nice
19:10	<skitzo>	=)
19:12	<karjala>	:-)
19:12	<karjala>	...and can I use any old TV tuner card for it?
19:12	<karjala>	what is it compatible with?
19:12	<skitzo>	any with v4l support
19:13	<karjala>	v4l... = "video for linux"?
19:13	<skitzo>	yup
19:13	<skitzo>	sorry =)
19:15	<karjala>	ok
19:15	<karjala>	thanx
19:16	<skitzo>	np
19:31	<karjala>	bye now
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19:42	<skitzo>	http://gstreamer.net/apps/
19:44	<skitzo>	-/apps/
19:44	<skitzo>	looks interesting.
19:58	<vektor>	Anyone want to try out my deinterlacer app?
19:59	<skitzo>	i would, but.. =P
19:59	<vektor>	But?
19:59	<skitzo>	no cap
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20:17	<OrangeSun>	vektor!!!
20:17	<OrangeSun>	vektor: do you have your myth tv working with a receiver / composite?
20:18	<vektor>	I don't have myth tv working, sorry.
20:18	<OrangeSun>	how come so many people on #mythtv don't have it working?
20:18	<vektor>	I just use the source code in my app a bit. :)
20:18	<vektor>	Well, because we're sharing code.
20:18	* vektor	has a valid excuse.
20:18	<OrangeSun>	hmm. I just don't understand why this thing won't work..
20:18	<OrangeSun>	vek: cool : )
20:18	<OrangeSun>	what's isaac's IRC nick?
20:18	<vektor>	OrangeSun: Try my deinterlacer.
20:18	<vektor>	Is isaac the main developer?
20:19	<vektor>	If so his nick is 'Chutt'.
20:19	<OrangeSun>	vektor: can this deinterlacer be used to replace the mythtv deinterlacer?
20:19	<vektor>	uh...
20:19	<vektor>	No, it's a separate app.
20:19	<vektor>	My app is basically a DScaler port.
20:19	<vektor>	Although not as featureful yet.
20:19	<OrangeSun>	vektor: Ok. I'll try it if you'd like.. but I have no real use for a deinterlacer..
20:19	<vektor>	Why don't you?
20:19	<OrangeSun>	unless it's like Mythtv.. something I didn't know I needed until I needed it..
20:20	<OrangeSun>	I do all my video capture in windows, in which case it deinterlaces there..
20:20	<vektor>	Well, erm, my app is a realtime deinterlacer.
20:20	<OrangeSun>	could I get info related to your deinterlacer, though? I like to stay abreast of these sorts of things.
20:20	<vektor>	So, it's for watching TV on a monitor.
20:20	<OrangeSun>	woah! that's very cool!!
20:20	<OrangeSun>	how does it work?
20:20	<vektor>	Well, do you know what interlacing is?
20:20	<OrangeSun>	yeah..
20:20	<OrangeSun>	and I know what deinterlacers do..
20:20	<vektor>	Ok, so you know that your TV displays at 59.94fps, right?
20:20	<OrangeSun>	what I'm wondering is how you would apply this program to a live stream.
20:21	<vektor>	Well, the point is, if you want to watch TV on a monitor and have it look as good as your TV, you need to either run your monitor at EXACTLY 59.94hz and have a 1-1 frame-to-frame mapping, using linear interpolation, or you have to do something smarter.
20:22	<vektor>	Otherwise everything looks like shit, or has poor motion.
20:22	<vektor>	I gave a talk about this at OLS, you should have gone dude. :)
20:22	<OrangeSun>	OLS?
20:23	<vektor>	Um, you are in London Ontario, right?
20:23	<OrangeSun>	yeah..
20:23	<OrangeSun>	but I'm new to london.
20:23	<vektor>	Where are you from?
20:23	<OrangeSun>	I'm a mongrel of the post-colonialist world.
20:23	<vektor>	OLS is the Ottawa Linux Symposium. It's a very hardcore Linux developers conference.
20:23	<vektor>	That's conveniently located in Ontario, or at least it was convenient for me when I lived there ;-)
20:24	* vektor	just moved to Halifax.
20:24	<OrangeSun>	palestinian. born in kuwait. refugee of gulf war to Calgary, halifax, Bathurst, Halifax again, and now london.
20:24	<OrangeSun>	I just moved from halifax.
20:24	<vektor>	Cool.
20:24	<OrangeSun>	what are you doing in halifax?
20:24	<vektor>	I'm doing a masters at Dal.
20:24	<OrangeSun>	funky.. in what?
20:24	<vektor>	CS.
20:24	<OrangeSun>	cool. I did psych / chem there.
20:24	<vektor>	Well, but I'm taking more math than CS. :)
20:24	<vektor>	cool :)
20:25	<OrangeSun>	just graduated : )
20:25	<vektor>	What are you doing now?
20:25	<OrangeSun>	I'm bumming around. I was supposed to start UWO med in sept, but I've defered till 2003
20:25	<vektor>	oh ok.
20:25	<vektor>	anyway, back to deinterlacing.
20:26	<OrangeSun>	OK..
20:26	<OrangeSun>	my question isn't about the technicals of deinterlacing..
20:26	<vektor>	So, do you sort of see why it's a hard problem?
20:26	<OrangeSun>	it's about your program's application to a live stream.
20:26	<vektor>	Well, so say you want to watch TV on your PC.
20:26	<vektor>	What are you going to do?
20:26	<OrangeSun>	run kwintv
20:26	<vektor>	Yeah, and how does it work?
20:27	<OrangeSun>	takes all the frames from the tv card, and tries to display them.
20:27	<OrangeSun>	that's my guess..
20:27	<vektor>	heh.
20:27	<vektor>	Ok, well, TV apps for linux work in two ways: using the v4l X extension, or using xvideo themselves
20:27	<vektor>	oh, or they use the cards overlay
20:27	<vektor>	if you use the v4l X extension, you get half-resolution and half-framerate of the original stream
20:27	<vektor>	if you use xvideo yourself, they all do that too
20:28	<vektor>	if they use the cards overlay, you see two fields together as a frame and everything looks like shit
20:28	<OrangeSun>	OK, so yours gets in the middle of v4l and kwin, say?
20:28	<OrangeSun>	or does it replace?
20:28	<vektor>	no, i just did a whole kwintv replacement.
20:28	<vektor>	i draw to the screen at 60fps.
20:28	<vektor>	so you get the full motion of a TV
20:28	<vektor>	and i reconstruct every field to full frame height
20:28	<vektor>	so you get the full quality of the TV stream
20:29	<vektor>	i have to reconstruct intelligently though, in order to compensate for your monitor not being sync'ed to the input stream
20:29	<OrangeSun>	vektor: OK, a question related to that, then.. I thought the whole concept of interlaced video was that rows would show up.. so two frames to make one.. example, first pass has 1 3 5, and second pas has 2 4 6
20:30	<vektor>	um
20:30	<vektor>	no
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20:30	<OrangeSun>	vektor: I think what you have here is a classic marketing problem. You shouldn't ask people if they want to use your "kwintv" replacement.. not your "deinterlacer"
20:30	<vektor>	the first pass is a different frame from the second pass
20:30	<vektor>	well, i just want to make sure you know why you want to run my app
20:30	<vektor>	the basic answer is that it's insanely better quality
20:30	<OrangeSun>	vektor: OK.. I was mistaken.. that's how the TLC special "Understanding TV" had me believing it..
20:31	<vektor>	well you're right in a sense
20:31	<vektor>	first it sends the odd scanlines
20:31	<vektor>	then it sends the even scanlines
20:31	<vektor>	but the even scanlines are a different image from the odd ones
20:31	<mdz>	insanity
20:31	<OrangeSun>	vektor: you still have a marketing problem if you say "wanna run my deinterlacer?" And that's mainly because most people (including me as is clear) don't understand what a deinterlacer is.
20:31	<mdz>	I did not realize that
20:31	<vektor>	mdz: your eye does not notice it though
20:31	<vektor>	to your eye they all look like complete frames
20:31	<vektor>	since you're less sensitive to such small changes
20:32	<vektor>	OrangeSun: well i'm still doing the webpage for it :)
20:32	<vektor>	OrangeSun: The description on the sourceforge page is probably a bit better.
20:32	<vektor>	OrangeSun: http://www.sf.net/projects/tvtime/
20:32	<vektor>	the point of interlacing is that you can send a 60fps stream in the bandwidth of a 30fps stream and your eye doesn't notice the loss of quality on the frames individually
20:33	<OrangeSun>	vektor: Well, again I assure you that your product will be a niche product for those in the know unless you learn to market it better..
20:33	<vektor>	OrangeSun: Thanks, I'll try harder. :)
20:33	<vektor>	I think saying 'DScaler for Linux' will get most people.
20:33	<vektor>	DScaler is _the_ HTPC app.
20:33	<OrangeSun>	Again, that's a niche.. : )
20:33	<OrangeSun>	really??
20:33	<vektor>	Not really.
20:33	<vektor>	DScaler is madly popular, and it's GPL'ed.
20:34	<vektor>	tvtime ships with Linux ports of two of their algorithms.
20:34	<vektor>	We haven't announced it yet.
20:34	<vektor>	Since I'm still bugfixing a bit for a big release.
20:34	<OrangeSun>	OK, so here's my next question.. can I run this program in conjunction with my PVR (i.e., myth)?
20:34	<vektor>	Need some testers.
20:34	<vektor>	OrangeSun: Well, part of the idea is that I'm doing a deinterlacing lib so myth can use it.
20:34	<vektor>	But the reality is that you need alot of CPU power to deinterlace.
20:35	<vektor>	So, it's going to be tight to get awesome quality _and_ record at the same time.
20:35	<vektor>	DScaler is adding some PVR features so it is possible if you have the CPU to spare.
20:35	<vektor>	But my P3-733, admittedly a bit slow now, is all used up running one of the better algorithms.
20:36	<OrangeSun>	hehehe. I am running a P2-333 on my HTPC system : )
20:36	<vektor>	Yeah, that's no good.
20:36	<OrangeSun>	and myth actually works OK : )
20:36	<mdz>	OrangeSun: so you're only planning on doing playback, right?
20:36	<vektor>	What resolution do you record at?
20:36	<vektor>	And what framerate?
20:36	<OrangeSun>	mdz: no! I do the live thing.
20:36	<mdz>	OrangeSun: 320x240?
20:36	<vektor>	To me, TV is not TV unless it's 720x480.
20:36	<OrangeSun>	I record at 400x400.. and it's whatever the usual framerate is..
20:37	<vektor>	OrangeSun: I'd be interested in seeing how tvtime works for you.
20:37	<vektor>	OrangeSun: If you want to try it out, let me know.
20:37	<OrangeSun>	vektor: I'll try it out and let you know..
20:37	* vektor	needs to get back to code though
20:37	<vektor>	coool
20:37	<vektor>	you can get it from cvs.
20:37	<vektor>	and type 'make'.
20:37	<OrangeSun>	vektor: Very cool..
20:37	<vektor>	and you have to run it as root to get any performance.
20:37	<OrangeSun>	question about cvs:
20:37	<vektor>	let me know how it goes.
20:37	<OrangeSun>	what's the whole cvs deal about? does my cvs tree update daily or something?
20:37	<OrangeSun>	so I always have the latest version?
20:37	<vektor>	no.
20:37	<vektor>	cvs is just a source control app.
20:37	<OrangeSun>	OK, that's what I thought..
20:38	<vektor>	so you update manually.
20:38	<vektor>	To get the latest version, do 'cvs update -dP'.
20:38	<vektor>	Well, do -dP if you're cool. :)
20:38	<mdz>	OrangeSun: try the FAQ-o-matic at cvshome.org
20:38	<OrangeSun>	is there a cvs directory?
20:38	<vektor>	Otherwise just 'cvs update'.
20:38	<OrangeSun>	what really excites me right is that I'm never going to miss another episode of cowboy bebop
20:38	<vektor>	cvs is a wee bit complicated. The sourceforge site has a brief doc on how to download tvtime using CVS though.
20:38	<vektor>	Good luck.
20:39	<OrangeSun>	funky.
20:39	<OrangeSun>	Alright guys.. I'm gonna jet. I'll see y'all soon.. take care!
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