TheGrebs.com:IRC Logs:#linode:2004:05:30

---	Log	opened Sun May 30 00:00:23 2004
00:03	@caker	sighup: ups 1ZT132T00348782839
00:03	sighup	In Transit [ On-Time ] Sched. Delivery: Jun 7, 2004 Shipped to: NASHVILLE, TN, US Service Type: GROUND Your package is in the UPS system and is on-time with a scheduled delivery date of Jun 7, 2004.. Results as of May 30, 2004 12:03 A.M. Eastern Time (USA)
00:05	fo0bar	ha ha ups
00:05	guinea-sleepe	\| another server?
00:05	@caker	that's just a 1000base-t GBIC
00:05	@caker	just for fun
00:05	guinea-sleepe	\| oh, one of those old things
00:05	guinea-sleepe	\| i was hoping it'd be something cool
00:05	@caker	servers are on their way, too :)
00:06	guinea-sleepe	\| i've not been paying attention in a long time... are you still looking for a third DC?
00:06	@caker	ahh, I was wrong -- those are the two DS9's
00:06	fo0bar	http://www.finnie.org/stuff/screencap-20040529-203949.png <-- I love xosd and xplanet
00:06	fo0bar	and staging screenshots ;)
00:06	@caker	guinea-sleepe: pretty sure I'm going with Equinix in Ashburn, VA
00:07	@caker	llamma-tipping?
00:07	fo0bar	caker: don't ask :)
00:08	fo0bar	http://llamawiki.arouse.net/
00:08	guinea-sleepe	\| so maybe museum of science tomorrow, otherwise definitely next weekend. gotta go before einstein leaves!
00:09	guinea-sleepe	\| but the MFA is free on monday. i can't pass that up :p
00:09	@caker	hehe .. on my trip around the US, I was suprised to see "Llammas for sale" in TX (i think) .. we got a big kick out of it
00:09	guinea-sleepe	\| heh
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00:09	fo0bar	I guess that's the closest thing to an official web page
00:09	guinea-sleepe	\| friend of mine is up in ... maine? ... for a llama art festival or something
00:10	@caker	I generally tip 15% :-p
00:11	guinea-sleepe	\| that's the great thing about living in MA: sales tax is 5%, so you just tip 3*whatever the tax is
00:12	guinea-sleepe	\| and don't even have to think about what 15% might be
00:12	fo0bar	WI was the same way
00:12	@caker	I just do 10% of the amount, and add another half ..
00:12	@caker	easy
00:12	guinea-sleepe	\| caker: that's too hard for some people :P
00:12	guinea-sleepe	\| i didn't say i was one of them
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00:29	@caker	hello
00:30	Efudd	word to my UT2004 server running now :)
00:30	@caker	where is it running?
00:30		* Efudd just got beat bad :/
00:31	Efudd	forever.broked.net
00:31	Efudd	that isn't against any eula is it? :)
00:31	@caker	haha
00:31	@caker	nope .. how's it handle it?
00:31	Efudd	i figure i could use some of the cpu i've been giving up lately :)
00:31	Efudd	well, with 2 players, ok :)
00:31	@caker	I've been playing the demo
00:31	Efudd	ah. spiffy.
00:31	Efudd	yah. forever.broked.net, password secret
00:31	@caker	will kick ur butt
00:31	Efudd	not on now. logging into EQ for a bit tho
00:32	Efudd	server is running, but eh.. :)
00:32	Efudd	i just got my ass handed to me by a friend
00:32	Efudd	42 deaths to his 4?
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05:17	adamg	morning all
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05:19	Efudd	yo
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05:55	littleady	hi anyone here to help me setup my dns???
05:59	littleady	just through doster i have got a domain name and managed dns services with it??
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09:54	symb	out of curiousity, what are some uses/benefits of changing your reverse dns?
09:57	guinea-MoS	if i visit your website from my linode, i'll show up in your logs as "parsed.net" instead of "li-whatever.linode.com"
09:57	guinea-MoS	when i irc, i irc from "parsed.net" instead of...
09:58	guinea-MoS	i think some email servers may throw a fit if rDNS doesn't match. i can't remember
09:58		* guinea-MoS leaves now
09:58	guinea-MoS	a Van de Graaff generator awaits!
09:58	adamg	email servers may moan if there is no rdns set, the rdns does not have to match the sender domain
09:58	guinea-MoS	aha
09:58	adamg	mainly aol
09:59	symb	so basically rather than having to set any type of vhost
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10:00	Ashen	you can get irc vhosts - that's what I use it for. Not sure it has any other uses though.
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10:02	symb	Ashen: but you could only use *.example.com for vhosts and only one domain right?
10:04	Ashen	symb: you can use any vhost that you want for a host on IRC, provided you can get the forward and reverse dns to match up for that IP, and that's an IP you can bind to on your machine
10:05	Ashen	the limit is : can you get some.host.name to resolve to your-ip-addy, and can you get your-ip-addy to resolve back to some.host.name? if you can get both, and you can use your-ip-addy on irc, then you can have the some.host.name vhost.
10:05	symb	ok cool, i understand now, thank you
10:06	symb	on a mail server, if I were to host another domain and have a mail server for each, would the header for each domain show the reverse dns somewhere in it?
10:13	Ashen	not sure, don't think so
10:13	Ashen	depends on mailer config
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10:14	Ashen	I don't think you really need rdns control for mail
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10:24	Smith	Hi
10:24	adamg	lo
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12:34	compuserve	hi
12:34	compuserve	caker ;)
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15:55	emcnabb	is there a way to see a graph of my transfer rates over the last few months?
15:59	@caker	emcnabb: no graphs unless you mrtg'ed it (or the like)... just the history off the "My Account"
15:59	adamg	hi caker
15:59	Ashen	caker: is there any file that documents the changes made from kernel 2.4.26 to 2.6.5?
15:59	Ashen	caker: the linode version, I mean
16:00	Ashen	caker: I ask because due to security arrangements it looks like I'm going to have to run 2.6.5, and wonder if it will change much.
16:00	@caker	hello
16:00	@caker	Ashen: hmm .. changes needed to run 2.6 you mean?
16:02	@caker	Ashen: There shouldn't be any Linode/UML specific changes from 2.4 to 2.6, other than lack of nptl support
16:02	@caker	Ashen: which distro do you run?
16:02	Ashen	both, if possible...... I've always run latest 2.4 stable, never ventured into 2.6
16:03	Ashen	caker: RH9 atm, but I'm trying to migrate to debian (for which I would want to buy a second linode), and redesign from the ground up. One of the features I want requires .6 to work.
16:03	@caker	Ashen: yeah .. you might need to "mv /lib/tls /lib/tls-disabled" to get around the NPTL issue
16:04	Ashen	NPTL? What is tls?
16:04	@caker	Ashen: and the apt-get needs "LD_ASSUME_KERNEL=2.2.5 apt-get whatever"
16:04	@caker	Ashen: there might be an update to apt so you don't have to do that
16:04	@caker	Ashen: native posix threads library
16:04	Ashen	hm
16:04	@caker	Ashen: those are the only issues
16:04		* Ashen saves this convo out
16:04	emcnabb	caker, cool, thanks
16:04	@caker	Ashen: you can also stick that env variable in a startup/login script
16:04	Ashen	you must get a lot of questions about that upgrade.
16:04	@caker	not really, that's from my own use :)
16:05	@caker	those are really the only two issues that I've encountered
16:05	@caker	both NPTL related
16:05	Ashen	would it be possible to get a second linode on the same account, or would I have to get a second account ?
16:05	@caker	second account ;/
16:05	@caker	you could shutdown and boot into a different profile...
16:06	Ashen	can't do that - need to have em both running at once
16:06	Ashen	otherwise, would have - already tried that in fact to test out debian.
16:09	Ashen	would I have to do the phone verification thing again if I bought another linode?
16:09	@caker	nah
16:10	Ashen	if I gave you the specs of what I wanted, could you bill me for it (same everything as first account) and set it up?
16:11	@caker	Ashen: I'll need you to run through the signup again .. is that ok?
16:11	Ashen	I'm migrating systems you see, I want the first one online while I transfer stuff off it and get the second one setup, but eventually I plan to move to the second one exclusively.
16:11	Ashen	which signup is that?
16:11	@caker	https://www.linode.com/signup/
16:17	Ashen	it won't let me signup:
16:17	Ashen	no plan was found that could match your request. Please narrow your selection, and try again.
16:18	@caker	for what?
16:18	Ashen	signing up with linode 128 monthly, no extras
16:18	@caker	sighup: linode avail
16:18	sighup	Linode availability -- [Linode 64: 12] [Linode 96: 0] [Linode 128: 0] [Linode 192: 3] [Linode 256: 3]
16:19	@caker	one secv
16:19	@caker	try now please
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16:23	Ashen	doing payment now.
16:27	adamg	this new hosts seems stable enough
16:27	@caker	yeah, I've opened some slots on it .. up to 12 nodes running on it now...
16:28	adamg	is it only a new linode kernel or a new host kernel as well
16:28	@caker	both
16:28	@caker	cat /proc/cpuinfo
16:28	@caker	the other's are 2.6.4 based
16:29	adamg	at least it means I wont have to go through another host reboot this time
16:33	@caker	Ashen: all set -- thanks
16:35	Ashen	thank you :)
16:35	@caker	time for food .. bbiab
16:36	@caker	Ashen: btw, if you want to transition some of your IPs when you're ready, let me know
16:36	Efudd	hrm.
16:37	Ashen	caker: mmmm, I'll think about it, I was considering moving only the absolute bare minimums across (some scripts I've written, databases...) and just doing everything else from scratch.
16:37	@caker	Ashen: okay
16:38	Ashen	caker: out of curiousity, what is CentOS?
16:38	@caker	Ashen: it's Red Hat Enterprise distro
16:39	Ashen	ah :)
16:54	---	User: *** guinea-MoS is now known as guinea-pig
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17:12	Ashen	caker: I hate to ask this, but is the debian install usable? apt-get doesn't work as it claims that "something wicked happened with resolving" all the sources ftp sites, and 'dig' is missing.
17:12	Ashen	there is also no gcc or similar that I can use to actually install the missing packages like dig that I would need to alter the dns situation
17:13	Ashen	can you advise?
17:14	adamg	apt-get should work
17:14	adamg	you will need to install gcc etc via apt-get
17:15	adamg	you may need to update the nameservers list thought
17:16	Ashen	ah, where is that, and what should I set it to?
17:17	adamg	/etc/resolv.conf
17:17	adamg	nameserver 64.62.190.9
17:17	adamg	nameserver 65.19.175.2
17:17	adamg	nameserver 65.19.176.2
17:17	adamg	nameserver 65.19.174.2
17:19	Ashen	search?
17:19	adamg	linode.com
17:20	Ashen	hm, same result as before
17:20	adamg	apt-get update
17:22	Ashen	all fails for the same reason
17:22	adamg	can you ssh in to it
17:23	Ashen	yeah I'm sitting on # now
17:23	Ashen	I can run commands, but apt-get fails totally
17:23	adamg	can you ping anything
17:23	Ashen	unknown host linode.com
17:24	Ashen	looks like it's not networked
17:24	adamg	if you can ssh in to it, it is working, just cant resolv
17:24	adamg	can you ping 131.251.49.180
17:24	Ashen	hang on, I'm in list-console, not ssh, sorry
17:24	Ashen	lish* console
17:24	adamg	what does ifconfig say
17:26	Ashen	eth0 : UP BROADCAST RUNNING MULTICAST
17:26	adamg	looks like there hasnt been an ip assigned
17:26	adamg	it appears to happen every now and again when a host runs out of ip addresses
17:27	Ashen	ok, sorry for appearing so clueless, but how do I fix it?
17:27	adamg	you will have to wait for caker do get back
17:27	adamg	you cant fix it
17:27	Ashen	hm ok
17:28		* Ashen waits for caker then, thank you adamg.
17:30	---	---> compuserve [~c89e1491@64.35.99.205] has joined #linode
17:30	compuserve	caker hi
17:36	SupaDongzu	oh boy it is compuserv!
17:36	SupaDongzu	compuserve: do you still charge by the second?
17:36	guinea-pig	no, he rounds up to the nearest minute now
17:37	SupaDongzu	compuserve: You should have sent out tons of CD-ROMs the way AOL did
17:37	SupaDongzu	then you would have had lots of users!
17:38	@caker	Ashen: what's up with that?
17:41	---	---> claviola [claviola@200.162.246.133.user.ajato.com.br] has joined #linode
17:41	claviola	there's no compuserve brasil.
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17:42	Ashen	caker: don't know - it's not getting an IP address.
17:42	@caker	Ashen: /...
17:42	@caker	Ashen: oops .. try /etc/init.d/networking restart
17:44	@caker	ahh
17:44	@caker	I know this bug
17:44		* Ashen loses net access from home due to unreliable optical link that drops repeatedly - and just uses the members/ web panel to reboot whilst he gets terminal back up
17:45	@caker	with Debian and the 2.6 kernel, you need to apt-get install dhcp3-client
17:45	---	<<-- compuserve [~c89e1491@64.35.99.205] has quit (Quit: caput!)
17:45	adamg	which you cant do without an ip
17:45	@caker	reboot using 2.4
17:45	@caker	or ifconfig eth0 manually
17:46	@caker	or edit and fix /sbin/dhclient
17:46	@caker	(shell script)
17:46	adamg	and ask caker nicly to update the debian image
17:47	@caker	hehe
17:47	@caker	word
17:48	Ashen	heh
17:48	Ashen	I see.
17:49	adamg	caker may be worth pointing that out on the forum as it means that if people from from 2.4 to 2.6 most of the debian boots will have problems
17:50	@caker	adamg: there's a bunch of 2.6-related issues, that's why I haven't officially announced/supported it yet
17:50	adamg	yeah with gentoo is screws things as well
17:50	adamg	or for me anyway
17:51	Ashen	hwclock is unable to get I/O port access: the iopl(3) call failed.
17:51	Ashen	it's not working, even with 2.4
17:51	@caker	Ashen: that's normal (no hwclock)
17:51		* Ashen checks
17:52	Ashen	conflciting dhcp-config files
17:52	@caker	blow it away
17:52	Ashen	install new over old you mean?
17:52	adamg	yeah
17:52	@caker	install new
17:53	@caker	that's a generic conf file
17:53		* adamg has gotta stop playing silly computer card games and get on with some coding
17:53	Ashen	ok
17:53	Ashen	should I be able to reboot now into 2.6 and have things work?
17:53	@caker	yeah
17:53	Ashen	ok
17:53		* Ashen tests tennatively.
17:54	@caker	it pings :0
17:54	Ashen	run-parts: component /etc/dhcp3/dhclient-enter-hooks.d/debug-enter is not an executable plain file
17:55	Ashen	run-parts: component /etc/dhcp3/dhclient-exit-hooks.d/debug-exit is not an executable plain file
17:55	@caker	that's new to me
17:55	Ashen	yay, it works :)
17:55	guinea-pig	heh
17:55	Ashen	more or less - not to install
17:56	Ashen	caker: there is a very helpful guide I found at http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/securing-debian-howto/index.en.html that you might want to post somewhere for people wanting to setup debian securely (I dunno if you'd find it helpful, I'm going by it as this is the first time I've ever used deb)
17:57	@caker	Ashen: you should run "dpkg-reconfigure -a" to set everything up right off (I missed that step when building the image)
17:58	@caker	the deb image is also missing /etc/hosts
17:58	@caker	but I believe that will fix it
17:58	Ashen	ok
17:58	Ashen	hrm, I have a lot of learning to do before I can operate debian sufficiently :)
17:59	guinea-pig	regarding those errors, i think the .deb may be broken
18:00	guinea-pig	if it's using run-parts, i think those hook scripts need to be +x, and should have a #!, and they aren't/don't
18:01	Ashen	hrm, that command caker gave me appears to hang
18:02	Ashen	on the keymap screen
18:02	Ashen	I think this happened before
18:02	Ashen	when I did a tmp deb install on my old linode
18:02	@caker	Ashen: try running it via ssh, rather than through the console (?)
18:02	Ashen	and it crashed unless I entered 'don't touch kernel keymap'
18:02	@caker	hmm
18:03	guinea-pig	interesting
18:03	Ashen	that won't even start
18:03	Ashen	debconf: DbDriver "configdb" error: /var/cache/debconf/config.dat is locked by another process
18:03	Ashen	I killed all sessions from a new lish
18:03	@caker	ps auxhf, kill
18:04	@caker	ps auxhf, kill the dpkg processes
18:04	adamg	yeah but it is still running from within the linode
18:04	adamg	skill dpkg
18:04	Ashen	ah ok
18:04	guinea-pig	meh
18:05	guinea-pig	you don't even need console-common, which is what asks that message
18:05	guinea-pig	i mean, why bother? there isn't a physical console for a linode
18:05	@caker	there's a console, just not a keyboard, which is what keymap is for, no?
18:06	guinea-pig	well, console tools do keyboard and console fonts
18:06	@caker	you don't think it would cause problems for the console if you removed those?
18:06	Ashen	mmm, defaults timezone to NY,USA
18:07	guinea-pig	hasn't for me
18:07	@caker	cool
18:07	guinea-pig	i haven't had them installed on my linode in ages :P
18:07	@caker	another few K removed from Debian then :)
18:07	guinea-pig	i have no reason to change the kernel keymap, and i had no reason to change the console font, as it wouldn't matter on a linode
18:07	guinea-pig	it's depended on by base-config, though
18:10	Ashen	should I add my linode's IP to the list of addresses considered local for the machine? It asks, but does not tell me what effect this will have, if any.
18:13	@caker	I think you just want 127.0.0.1
18:13	@caker	127.0.0.1/8
18:15	sunny	h? in ps auxhf ?
18:15	sunny	ah, I see
18:16	sunny	I'll stick to pa auxfw
18:16	sunny	:)
18:16	sunny	*ps
18:16		* Ashen added his linode's IP, hm
18:16	@caker	force of habit .. it doesn't print the header line
18:17	@caker	Ashen: I think it just added it to /etc/hosts, not sure
18:18	Ashen	hm, /etc/hosts does not exist
18:18	@caker	Ashen: echo "127.0.0.1 localhost" > /etc/hosts
18:18		* caker really should fix that
18:19	Ashen	sorry for being such a newbie about all this :)
18:19	@caker	I still can't get over the Vodka ads on /.
18:19	@caker	geeks aren't big drinkers, in my experience
18:20	Ashen	default runlevel for linodes is '3', right?
18:20	@caker	ya
18:21	chris	depends on the dist (debian uses 2)
18:21	@caker	well then :)
18:21	chris	At least mine does...
18:21	Ashen	how do I tell what runlevel I am in?
18:21	sunny	caker: geeks are consumptionists, not real drinkers, heh
18:21	Ashen	ah I see, ps aufx \| grep init
18:21	Ashen	it shows it in init's args
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18:30	guinea-pig	i worship rachel ray
18:31	@caker	food network chick, or page3 chick?
18:31	@caker	food network chick is annoying
18:31	guinea-pig	!!!
18:31		* guinea-pig beats up caker
18:32	@caker	wait a sec
18:32	@caker	she's on page3? yuk
18:32	@caker	no way .. those have to be fakes :)
18:32	@caker	hahaha
18:34	guinea-pig	why is she annoying?
18:35	@caker	I dunno .. I think she reminds me of someone I knew/disliked
18:35	guinea-pig	she reminds me of Laura Petrie
18:35	@caker	I don't see that connection, but .. ok
18:36	guinea-pig	heh
18:36		* caker was once in a band with three lesbians. I wanted to call the band Dick Van Dyke, but they wouldn't go for it
18:36	guinea-pig	something about her expressions and hand movements
18:36	@caker	instead, we were "Raw Umber" .. a brown crayon color ... go figure
18:37	guinea-pig	Burnt Sienna
18:39	Ashen	hm, I've created several paritions to house /usr, /tmp and /home. Unforunately after I've got debian working up to a bare-bones level, they already have data on them - how do I mount the new partitions into those places whilst keeping the data I already have?
18:41	@caker	Ashen: single user mode is probably the safest way, but, copy the data to those partitions, delete everything in the orig (but keep the mountpoints), edit /etc/fstab, and reboot
18:43	guinea-pig	i can't believe she's 35
18:43	@caker	er, mount the images under /mnt first :)
18:43	Ashen	ok..... edit config profile to use singer user mode, bring up the system, mv tmp tmp2, mv usr usr2, mv home home2, mount /home, mount /tmp, mount /usr, cp tmp2/* tmp....
18:43	Ashen	hrm
18:43	Ashen	tries this
18:44	@caker	Ashen: yeah, mkdir /tmp /usr/ home, before mounting
18:44	@caker	Ashen: also, single user mode probably mounts root read only, so: mount -o remount,rw /
18:45	@caker	Ashen: also, do "cp -au" to keep the correct permissions/ownership on the files you're copying
18:45	@caker	Ashen: "cp -au /home2/* /home/"
18:48	Ashen	phew
18:49	Ashen	should I edit /etc/fstab to include the defs I want before I reboot into single user?
18:49	@caker	No .. I'd leave everything as it is and do all of this in single
18:50	Ashen	ok
18:51	@caker	Ashen: btw, this is all done through the console
18:51	Ashen	through lish?
18:51	@caker	yes
18:51	Ashen	ah changes to that
18:52	Ashen	give root password maintenance - logs in
18:52	Ashen	thank you for your patience with this guys :)
18:52	@caker	scared yet?
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18:53	@caker	Ashen: no biggie .. 'tis fun
18:53	Ashen	g
18:53	Ashen	mmm, ls -l / and getting total 0 is a bit scary
18:54	@caker	you left out /
18:54	@caker	I think that's just in /root/
18:54		* caker tail's ashen's console log
18:54	Ashen	mm, thanks :)
18:54	Ashen	there's a console log? :)
18:54	@caker	hell yeah .. Lish's "logview" cmd
18:55	@caker	it's useful for capturing boot output, and kernel oop's/panics
18:56	Ashen	mount -o remount,rw / && mv /home /home2 && mv /tmp /tmp2 && mv /usr /usr2 && mkdir /tmp /usr /home
18:56	@caker	looks good
18:56	Ashen	then mount the new paritions into their new places as /home, /var and /tmp
18:56	@caker	yes
18:56	Ashen	then cp -au /x2/* /x/
18:56	Ashen	for x = tmp, home, usr
18:57	@caker	correct, then?
18:57	Ashen	leave the old home2/ tmp2 and user2 there in case, add entries to /etc/fstab
18:57	@caker	wallah!
18:57	Ashen	reboot into multi user mode
18:58	Ashen	cross fingers.... if everything works, delete usr2, home2, and tmp2
18:59	@caker	man's probably in /usr somewhere, so now it can't find it
18:59	@caker	try: /usr2/bin/man mount
19:00	Ashen	mounting partitions into their places : mount -t ext3 /dev/ubdc /home
19:00	@caker	you can leave off the -t ext3
19:00	Ashen	mount -t ext3 /dev/ubdd /var && mount /dev/ubde /tmp
19:01	Ashen	mmm ok
19:01	@caker	you can also edit fstab first, and then do "mount -a"
19:01	@caker	that would help verify fstab is correct
19:01	Ashen	/dev/ubc /mnt/home ext3 noauto,nodev,noexec,nosuid,nouser,rw 0 2
19:01	@caker	mmm strict :)
19:02	Ashen	it's a public shell box, and I'm not cutting corners on security :)
19:02	Ashen	that's why I wanted the 2.6 kernel - I'm aware of a workaround that lets users escape noexec restrictions on filesystems usind ld-linux
19:02	@caker	pretty simple to run an interpreter (bash/perl, etc) but you've probably already thought of that
19:02	@caker	hmm
19:03	Ashen	users running scripts doesn't bother me, it's compiling their own executables and running them that I worry about :)
19:03	Ashen	http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/securing-debian-howto/ch4.en.html
19:03	Ashen	jump to 4.9.1
19:03	@caker	perl, etc provide the same functionality .. ?
19:03	heidi	hmm
19:03	Ashen	need perl, don't want people gcc'ing mremap.c :)
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19:04	Ashen	hrm
19:05	Ashen	mount -a does not mount anything new it seems
19:05	@caker	cat /etc/fstab
19:06	@caker	does it say "ubde" or ube" ?
19:06	@caker	also /mnt/home ?
19:06	@caker	(didn't catch that when you pasted it)
19:07	Ashen	mounting em to /mnt/etc rather then /home nd /tmp and similar?
19:07	@caker	you need them off of /
19:08	Ashen	should be ok now
19:08	@caker	looks good now
19:08	Ashen	mount -a still does not pick them up
19:08	Ashen	ah, they're +noauto
19:08	@caker	hah
19:09	@caker	glad we tried it this way :)
19:09	@caker	heh
19:09		* Ashen also
19:10	Ashen	cp time
19:11	@caker	/tmp2/ must be empty ...
19:12	Ashen	probably is in single user
19:13	Ashen	mmm, nothing else left to do - apart from reboot changes cpanel conf
19:14	Ashen	I'm going to symlink /var/tmp to /tmp/var
19:14	Ashen	that way, I can mount the whole of /var/ without noexec or nosuid if necessary
19:14	Ashen	as there would be nowhere on /var users could write to...
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19:21	Ashen	hm, can reboots hang if partitions can't be unmounted?
19:21	@caker	Ashen: type "reboot"
19:22	adamg	would there be any reason why they cant be unmounted
19:22	@caker	Ashen: curious if in single user mode, it ignores "cad"
19:22	Ashen	cad?
19:22	@caker	control-alt-delete...
19:22	@caker	grep cad /etc/inittab
19:23	Ashen	/var/run/etc/init.d/rcS: cd: /var/run: No such file or directory
19:23	Ashen	/etc/init.d/rcS: /var/run/utmp: No such file or directory
19:23	Ashen	Initializing random number generator... urandom start: failed.
19:23	Ashen	appears /var is not filed with anything
19:23	Ashen	hangs on starting syslog
19:23	guinea-pig	on debian, no it doesn't ignore c-a-d, iirc
19:23	Ashen	ah yes the salute heh
19:24	Ashen	well, it appers it won't boot now due to hanging on syslodg
19:24	Ashen	logd*
19:24	adamg	sounds like you are not mounting /var on boot
19:26	Ashen	it should, I deleted noauto from all of em.
19:26	adamg	what does df say
19:26	Ashen	EXT3-fs: mounted filesystem with ordered data mode.
19:26	Ashen	/dev/ubdd on /var type ext3 (rw,noexec,nosuid,nodev)
19:27	Ashen	nothing - I can't get a prompt
19:27	@caker	single user mode time
19:27	Ashen	it hangs on starting syslogd
19:27	adamg	syslogd needs access to /var/log
19:27	adamg	and /var/run
19:28	Ashen	hrm
19:28	Ashen	- /var appers to be empty
19:28	adamg	so it is not mounted
19:29	@caker	did some of your linkage (ln) overwrite it?
19:29	@caker	uh oh :)
19:29	Ashen	:-/
19:30	adamg	what does df say
19:30	adamg	it should like all mounted srives
19:30	Ashen	/var is mounted
19:30	Ashen	as are /home and /tmp
19:30	@caker	Ashen: where's var2 ?
19:30	adamg	did you copy all the stuff over to the new drive from the orig /var
19:30	@caker	he might have just mounted var overtop (if he's lucky)
19:31	@caker	:)
19:31	Ashen	I backed up /usr to /usr2 but not /var to /var2
19:31	adamg	unmount /var
19:32		* Ashen has already unmounted /var and is copying a backup /var to the mounted /var
19:32	@caker	Ashen: you meant /usr, not /var :)
19:32	@caker	Ashen: now you've got a copy of /usr on the rootfs . you never mounted a /usr
19:32	@caker	Ashen: which is it? var or usr?
19:33	Ashen	I'm moving var
19:33	Ashen	I'm leaving /usr/ alone as there is nowhere in it it that normal users can write to
19:33	Ashen	and hence, nowhere they can exec files
19:33	Ashen	so it doesn't need to be nosuid
19:34	@caker	so you can blow away /usr2 then ...
19:34	@caker	wait
19:34	@caker	mv /var /var2
19:34	@caker	mount /var
19:34	@caker	cp -au /var2/* /var
19:36	@caker	I don't know how good of an idea it is to have a /tmp/var ...
19:36	@caker	as /tmp get's cleaned out
19:36	Ashen	mmm
19:36	guinea-pig	yeah, but what uses /var/tmp/ anyway?
19:36	@caker	var and tmp have the same mount options, so why not just leave /var/tmp alone?
19:36	Ashen	yeah, good point
19:37	@caker	rm -f /var/tmp
19:37	@caker	cp -auf /var2/* /var/
19:37	@caker	:)
19:37	@caker	that worked
19:38	Ashen	phew
19:38	guinea-pig	oh
19:38	guinea-pig	FHS: "Files and directories located in /var/tmp must not be deleted when the system is booted."
19:38	Ashen	FHS?
19:39		* Ashen thinks things are ready for another try at multi-user mode now
19:39	guinea-pig	filesystem heirarchy standard
19:39	guinea-pig	at least debian tries to adhere to it as though it were LAW
19:39	adamg	as it should
19:41	guinea-pig	for example, /var/spool/mail changed in the FHS to /var/mail, and debian followed suit, providing symlinks for people "upgrading"
19:41	guinea-pig	this was back during potato, iirc
19:41	guinea-pig	i order food now
19:42	Ashen	a reboot on the actual members page seems to be 'in progress' forever
19:42	adamg	gentoo just symlinks that as well
19:42		* Ashen wonders what is causing the hangs
19:42	guinea-pig	are you connected to lish to watch it shutdown?
19:43	Ashen	"Emmergency Sync complete"
19:43	adamg	the shutdown hung on something
19:43	@caker	I think that in single user mode, you need to logout/type "reboot"
19:43	Ashen	aah.
19:43	guinea-pig	caker: if you logout of single user, it completes the boot
19:43	guinea-pig	doesn't it?
19:43	Ashen	caker: does that console log log everything typed into console, including root passwords?
19:43	guinea-pig	a simple poweroff/reboot from within single user should work
19:44	@caker	I think it reboots .. on an error, when it prompts you to fix, is when I think it continues booting
19:44		* caker shrugs
19:45	adamg	Ashen: since the log is just a screen capture it should only capture output not input
19:45	Ashen	ah
19:46		* Ashen tests his new secure config
19:46	Ashen	if, having done this, I'm not secure against the ld-linux flaw I'll call it 50/50 for the day :)
19:51	Ashen	ashen@moonlight:/tmp$ /lib/ld-2.2.5.so ./date
19:51	Ashen	Segmentation fault
19:51	Efudd	....
19:52		* Ashen tennatively thinks that that is a success
19:52		* Ashen reboots into 2.4 to test the comparison
19:55	Ashen	ashen@moonlight:/tmp$ /lib/ld-2.2.5.so /bin/date
19:55	Ashen	Sun May 30 19:55:23 EDT 2004
19:55	Ashen	ashen@moonlight:/tmp$ /lib/ld-2.2.5.so ./date
19:55	Ashen	Segmentation fault
19:55	Ashen	mmmm :)
19:58	Ashen	thank you very much caker and adamg for your help with getting all this set up :)
19:58	@caker	yaaa
19:58	@caker	go get em
19:59	Ashen	heh, still have the rest of these large list of security checks to work through before my system can even remotely consider doing anything useful
19:59	@caker	Ashen: the real test would be to copy /bin/date to your homedir
19:59	Ashen	but that was a big one :)
19:59	@caker	ahh, never mind
20:00	@caker	Ashen: that's pretty funky
20:00	Ashen	ashen@moonlight:~$ cp /bin/date date
20:00	Ashen	ashen@moonlight:~$ ./date
20:00	Ashen	bash: ./date: Permission denied
20:00	Ashen	- /home is a lot easier to secure then /tmp............ and thanks to ld-linux.so, both protections are useless without securing all areas to which users can write, and also having the 2.6 kernel
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20:02	@caker	so that was a 2.4 bug then?
20:02	Ashen	I think so
20:02	Ashen	I got told that the only way to get around that was to upgrade to 2.4
20:02	Ashen	however, it produces the same result on both 2.4 and 2.6 - SIGSEV
20:03	Ashen	which, I'm assuming, means 403 and it's not going to let the kiddies run their m_remap.o :)
20:04	Ashen	half-way through chapter 4 of the hardening process I'm using first
20:04	Ashen	(4/12 of A)... got a few more ones after this to go
20:04	Ashen	by the end of it, I should be a lot more secure then my old host under RH9
20:05	@caker	have you looked into rbash?
20:06	@caker	probably too restrictive
20:06	sunny	rbash is stupid
20:06		* caker heads to the coke machine, brb
20:06	sunny	it doesn't place restrictions on shell scripts
20:07	Ashen	different to bash -r?
20:07	sunny	no, its the same thing
20:08	sunny	Ashen: what is it that you are trying to do ? chroot ?
20:10	Ashen	I would use rbash but 1) users have to be able to cd. 2) it doesn't protect scripts.
20:10	sunny	well
20:10	sunny	if chroot is what you want
20:10	sunny	download the sources to pam_chroot
20:10	sunny	it has a great example of how the system works
20:10	Ashen	sunny: I'm working through various security options in debian to lock down a shell server.
20:10	Ashen	I don't really need chroot for users - though I will lock down sftp so it's chrooted to ~
20:11	Ashen	no sense in having ftp over the whole system.
20:11	sunny	is sftp provided by ssh ?
20:11	Ashen	lol
20:11	Ashen	RESTRICTED SHELL
20:11	Ashen	man2html: unable to open or read file ../man1/bash.1
20:11	Ashen	classic manual :)
20:11	Ashen	sunny: sftp is a ssh subsystem
20:12	sunny	well yes, but ssh itself doesn't support chroot
20:12	sunny	or last I checked it didn't
20:13	sunny	there is a shell specifically for chrooting ssh/sftp
20:13	sunny	I just don't remember what it was called
20:15	Ashen	hm
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20:46	Ashen	caker: out of curiousity, it is intended that debian come without an /etc/apt/apt.conf?
20:46	@caker	is that possible?
20:47	@caker	hmm
20:47	@caker	it is missing, isn't it
20:48	@caker	well, that wasn't indentional
20:48	@caker	intentional, even
20:48	Ashen	I ask because I have to change the dir apt-get tries to do things in away from /tmp
20:49	@caker	try: apt-get --reinstall install apt (or somethign like that)
20:50	Ashen	I can't - as I said, can't use apt-get till I fix apt :)
20:50	@caker	oh ..
20:50		* Ashen edits fstab and then tries again
20:50	@caker	actually, just touch /etc/apt/apt.conf and stick the directive you need in there
20:51	@caker	I'm guessing it works fine on the defaults (without apt.conf)
20:51	@caker	since no one has mentioned it until now
20:52	Ashen	hm
20:53	@caker	you sure this isn't a sticky bit problem?
20:53	@caker	or does debian run stuff from /tmp ?
20:54	Ashen	hrrrm
20:54	Ashen	no apt.conf created
20:55	@caker	must be up to you then :)
20:56	Ashen	indeed.
20:56	Ashen	http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=116448
20:58	@caker	ahh .. says it listens to TMPDIR env var
20:58	@caker	noexec is a PITA
21:01	Ashen	hehe already set it all
21:01	Ashen	worked out the syntax, testing it with all the fses secure now
21:02	Ashen	no, no dice.
21:03	@caker	what's the error?
21:05	Ashen	subprocess pre-removal script returned error exit status 2
21:05	Ashen	dpkg (subprocess): unable to execute post-installation script: Permission denied
21:05	Ashen	dpkg: error while cleaning up:
21:05	Ashen	subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 2
21:05	@caker	I think it runs scripts out of /var
21:06		* caker guesses
21:06	Ashen	you're probably right
21:06	Ashen	I can mount var exec.... I'd just have to disable /var/tmp
21:06	Ashen	seems intuitively like a bad idea
21:06	@caker	why not mount /var/tmp noexec?
21:06	@caker	and leave /var alone
21:07	Ashen	that would require creating another mount point for /var/tmp
21:07	Ashen	ah what the heck, lets go with it, there's always room for another mount point.
21:08	@caker	you could create a "raw" disk image, and literally partition it, and mount /dev/ubdx1 on /tmp and /dev/ubdx2 on /var/tmp, if you're worried about using up ubd's
21:09	Ashen	I've one more udb spare
21:10	Ashen	it might be a good idea, if you can, to increase the avalible number of udb*s
21:10	@caker	Can't .. only 8 drives in UML
21:10	@caker	and the 8th I've reserved for a special purpose, not yet deployed
21:11	Ashen	:-S
21:11	Ashen	ah well, I don't need any more imgs anyway, but if I did, I'd take your advice saves for later in case he needs it
21:11	Ashen	btw, apt-get runs sucessfully now :)
21:12	Ashen	chattr +a is SO useful.
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21:52		* caker chattr's mikegrb
21:52	mikegrb	:-O
21:52	mikegrb	you are just jealous I have beautiful high def sharks on my tv and you don't
21:52	Ashen	o.Os
21:52	mikegrb	;)
21:53	Ashen	does the debian install support quotas? (usrquota,grpquota I mean)
21:53	@caker	... I checked out some big TVs today at CompUSA
21:53	mikegrb	caker: you can get a nice hdtv around 36" direct view
21:53	@caker	some of them SUCK
21:53	mikegrb	about $750
21:53	mikegrb	yes
21:53	@caker	looked worse .. a TV image stretched and blown up to fit the widescreen
21:53	mikegrb	some are aweful
21:53	mikegrb	heh
21:53	mikegrb	we watch tv like that
21:53	@caker	looked like a 320x240 mpeg or something
21:53	mikegrb	]odd at first
21:53	mikegrb	oh
21:53	mikegrb	that sucks
21:53	mikegrb	digital cable was like that before
21:54	@caker	I couldn't deal with that much aspect distortion
21:54	guinea-pig	name that city: http://orion.parsed.net/albums/20040530/pict0715.sized.jpg
21:54	mikegrb	when comcast did the fiber rollout and upgrade to 3mega bit they uped the bitrate of the digital cable channels
21:54	mikegrb	they look better now
21:54	mikegrb	the aspect distortion isn't too bad
21:54	mikegrb	depends on the tv
21:54	@caker	Ashen: quota support is in the kernel, you'll have to find the userspace tools
21:54	mikegrb	they use different algo's for streatching
21:55	mikegrb	our sony does a good job
21:55	Ashen	caker: Turning off quotasquotaoff: Error while detecting kernel quota version: No such file or directory
21:55	@caker	Ashen: apt-get install quota quotatool ?
21:55	mikegrb	it stretches more on the outside then the middle of the picture
21:55	Ashen	caker: I'm doing the userspace tools, it neither installs nor deinstalls properly - diagnosing it :)
21:55	@caker	Ashen: what's it looking for? version.h ?
21:56	Ashen	not sure, that's what I'm looking for now :)
21:56	@caker	Ashen: strace is your friend
21:56		* mikegrb strace's caker
21:56		* caker segfaults
21:57	Ashen	fork(quotaoff: Error while detecting kernel quota version: No such file or directory
21:58	Ashen	odd, there don't appear to be any files around that that 404 on my system, yet it still faults.
21:59	@caker	[root@host4 2.6.5-linode2]# grep QUOTA .config
21:59	@caker	CONFIG_XFS_QUOTA=y
21:59	@caker	CONFIG_QUOTA=y
21:59	@caker	CONFIG_QUOTACTL=y
22:00	@caker	Ashen: I'd guess it needs updated tools for 2.6
22:01	Ashen	hm. I'll try it in 2.4
22:01	Ashen	see if that works.
22:01	@caker	that app was that? quotaoff ?
22:02	Ashen	that was 'quota'
22:02	@caker	try strace -f (follow forks)
22:03	Ashen	hrm, works on 2.4
22:04	Ashen	I'm going to edit my fstab to re-enable quotas, reboot, and attempt to get it working with the 2.4 kernel
22:05	Ashen	by 'works' I mean 'doesn't die horribly'
22:06		* Ashen reboots and sees if he can get it actually doing quotaing on 2.4
22:07	Ashen	hrm, it appears that quotaing does work (edquota lets me edit and all)
22:10	Ashen	and it enforces it :)
22:10	Ashen	would it help you if I reloaded back into 2.6 so I could give you some debug output from the quota there?
22:18	Ashen	if that would help you, say so and i'll help you track down the problem.
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22:35	mikegrb	http://thegrebs.com/~michael/heidi.jpg
22:35	mikegrb	caker: ^^^
22:35	mikegrb	Linode advertising
22:35	chris	Let the stalking begin
22:36	chris	I mean... um... good advertising
22:36	mikegrb	heh
22:36	mikegrb	need to do better on the bottom lip
22:37	---	---> captg [~d8a5919e@64.35.99.205] has joined #linode
22:37	captg	Hi, any linode staff in here?
22:37	---	<<-- captg [~d8a5919e@64.35.99.205] has quit (Quit: )
22:37	---	---> captg [~d8a5919e@64.35.99.205] has joined #linode
22:38	captg	Hi, any linode staff?
22:40	@caker	hello
22:40	@caker	Ashen: I think you just want to strace "quotaoff" or whatever /etc/init.d/quota was running .. that might be useful
22:42	@caker	captg: what's up?
22:43	Ashen	caker: hang on, I'll reload into 2.6 for you
22:44	Ashen	caker: got it working completely on 2.4 :)
22:45	@caker	Ashen: cool
22:45	Ashen	open("/proc/fs/quota", O_RDONLY\|O_LARGEFILE) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
22:45	Ashen	help you at all?
22:46	@caker	hmm
22:46	@caker	find /proc/ -name quota
22:47	Ashen	/proc/sys/fs/quota
22:47	Ashen	mmm, that seems like a bugfix waiting to happen :)
22:47	@caker	no kidding
22:47	@caker	I'd bet there are updated packages for that
22:47	chris	Are you running woody with 2.6?
22:47	chris	If so... duh
22:48	@caker	chris: shool us
22:48	chris	I think it was procps and module-init-tools that had to be backported
22:48	Ashen	how would I get these updated packages?
22:49	chris	caker: check if vmstat segs on his node
22:49	@caker	mod-init-tools is irrelevant
22:49	@caker	yeah, and procps is only needed for segfaulting ps/vmstat/etc
22:49	Ashen	vmstat does seg, yes.
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22:51	Ashen	I'm going back to 2.4, it seems more stable. Anything I can do for you before I do?
22:51	@caker	I think that's it .. thanks :)
22:51	@caker	at least we got to the bottom of it
22:52	Ashen	:)
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23:40	@caker	captg: all set. May I ask what you were expecting?
23:41		* caker thinks CGI::IRC doesn't work well in Firefox on the PC
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23:50	mowser	is there a recommened swap file size for a linode 64?
23:50	mowser	256?
23:51	@caker	128 min .. anything more than that and you should look into upgrading.
23:53	mowser	my swap was set at 256 by default with the distro creation; typicall it doesn't get used beyond 30000K
23:53	@caker	Let me rephrase, 256 is a good size to have for graceful degradation, but if you're using more than 128M of swap, I'd say time to upgrade
23:53	---	<--- UML_ChanLog [~stats@64.35.99.205] has left #linode (Rotating Logs)
23:53	mowser	but i've seen it as high as 650000
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23:54	@caker	cool .. you could probably shave off 128 megs without any problems ..
23:54	mowser	so i ok then, thank for the info, i'll keep an eye on it
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---	Log	closed Mon May 31 00:00:11 2004