TheGrebs.com:IRC Logs:#linode:2004:01:14

---	Log	opened Wed Jan 14 00:00:22 2004
01:44	-	Newsome [~sorenson@byu-gw.customer.csolutions.net] left #linode (Leaving)
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03:04	<limecat>	i need to setup postfix one of these days
03:04	<limecat>	yahoo mail is about maxed out
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04:26	<wap>	Morning
05:26	<@adamg>	yay, new tv has arrived
08:59	<EFudd>	hrm
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10:03	<k4k0>	caker: :D
10:07	+	ris [~ca9c029a@webuser.linode.com] joined #linode
10:07	<ris>	hi, anyone talking?
10:08	<jax>	need something?
10:08	<ris>	yeah, i had problems after installed webmin
10:09	<jax>	what problems? can't help if you don't ask
10:09	<ris>	i found no apache, then i go downloaded it, unable to compile it because no GCC, what now..?
10:10	<jax>	what distro?
10:10	<ris>	fedora
10:10	<jax>	all i know is slackware, so i'm not sure how to use their apt-get or whatever
10:11	<jax>	http://linode.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=510&highlight=fedora
10:11	<jax>	i guess the command is yum
10:12	<ris>	oic,so i just yum install httpd?
10:12	<ris>	or i download apache 2 then compile it?
10:13	<jax>	if you feel like compiling, you'll need to get gcc and probably some libraries
10:13	<ris>	yeah,the thing is when i compile GCC, it gave me this
10:14	<ris>	* The command 'cc -o conftest -g conftest.c' failed. * You must set the environment variable CC to a working compiler.
10:14	<ris>	i'm not sure what to do from here
10:15	<jax>	you can't compile anything if you don't have a compiler....just yum install httpd and whatever else you'd like
10:15	<jax>	yum install httpd mysql-server mysql php php-mysql
10:16	<ris>	why can't i install a compiler then?
10:16	<ris>	sorry, me is still new to all these stuff
10:16	<jax>	you can install it, but you can't compile it....you'll have to install a pre-compiled package
10:17	<ris>	so only yun get the pre compiled stuffs, is it?
10:19	<ris>	:) thanks anyway, i go try again.
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10:43	<k4k0>	caker: :D
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11:25	<ElfStone>	Hello
11:26	<ElfStone>	anyone around?
11:26	<@adamg>	yes
11:27	<ElfStone>	how you are
11:27	<ElfStone>	how are you
11:27	<@adamg>	ok, u
11:27	<ElfStone>	okay
11:27	<ElfStone>	got done with my prtaice exam for cisco
11:28	<ElfStone>	got a 82.5 tho
11:28	<ElfStone>	>.<
11:29	<ElfStone>	wanted at least a 90
11:32	ElfStone	is now known as Elf\|Sch
11:33	<Elf\|Sch>	adamg: do you run dns on yrou linode?
11:33	<@adamg>	yes
11:34	<Elf\|Sch>	what do you use to adminiter it?
11:35	<Elf\|Sch>	webmin or edit teh files?
11:35	<@adamg>	custom perl scripts, or will be in a few days, for now just edit the files
11:36	<Elf\|Sch>	k
11:37	<@tjfontaine>	webmin is the easiest to learn file format
11:38	<Elf\|Sch>	yea i seen dns in webmin
11:38	<Elf\|Sch>	that is why i asked
11:38	<Elf\|Sch>	adamg: what os you use?
11:38	<@adamg>	gentoo at linode
11:38	<@tjfontaine>	ahem
11:39	<@tjfontaine>	for now we all use linux as the OS
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11:39	<@tjfontaine>	you mean what distribution does he use
11:39	<@adamg>	heh
11:39	%	Netsplit jupiter.oftc.net <-> unununium.oftc.net quits: lamEfudd, mesozoic, psykoyiko, @inkblot, wferrel, EFudd, NeXTer, UML_ChanLog, ajr, sinned
11:39	<@adamg>	feck
11:39	<Elf\|Sch>	yes
11:39	<@tjfontaine>	whenever I see that I get afraid that my linode has died
11:39	<Elf\|Sch>	lol
11:40	<Elf\|Sch>	i use slackware at home but when i get my linode when ever that is) i plan to use slack as well or fedora
11:40	<Elf\|Sch>	if i liek stop talking
11:40	<Elf\|Sch>	i have left cause i am in school
11:40	<Elf\|Sch>	and the period ends soon
11:41	%	Netsplit over, joins: psykoyiko
11:41	<Elf\|Sch>	adamg: how hard is it to use gentoo on a linode?
11:42	<@adamg>	same as any distro, just need to learn how it works
11:42	<@tjfontaine>	I stand by my view that source distributions have no place on a linode ;-)
11:42	<@adamg>	heh
11:42	<Elf\|Sch>	tjfontaine: what do you mean?
11:42	<@adamg>	i dont like binary ones, they are a pain
11:42	<@tjfontaine>	well
11:42	<@tjfontaine>	on a linode 64 you get 2gigs of disk space
11:43	<@tjfontaine>	why on earth would you use a source distribution
11:43	<@tjfontaine>	but, every ones got their itch
11:43	<Elf\|Sch>	true
11:43	<Elf\|Sch>	and with liek amndrake
11:43	<Elf\|Sch>	mandrake
11:43	<Elf\|Sch>	urpmi gets what you need
11:43	<Elf\|Sch>	later
11:44	<@tjfontaine>	bye
11:45	<schweeb>	adamg: explain how binary distributions are a pain?
11:45	<Elf\|Sch>	schweeb: diskspace wise
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11:45	<schweeb>	source takes more space than the binary...
11:45	<@adamg>	schweeb: mainly becausae binaries dont have things compiled like, like ssl under mysql etc
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11:46	<Elf\|Sch>	hehe
11:46	<Elf\|Sch>	mandrake sloves that by installing it all
11:47	<Elf\|Sch>	lol
11:47	<Elf\|Sch>	well mandrake is not the most secure
11:47	<Elf\|Sch>	tho
11:47	<schweeb>	adamg: debian compiles just about everything in, and makes it a separate package......
11:48	<Elf\|Sch>	like slackware ssl is not installed by default with apache
11:48	<@adamg>	schweeb: debian does not come with ssl compiled in for mysql
11:48	<Elf\|Sch>	later
11:48	<Elf\|Sch>	period ended
11:48	<Elf\|Sch>	have a good day=)
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11:50	<Elf\|Sch>	sighup: linode avail
11:50	<sighup>	Linode availability -- [Linode 64: 2] [Linode 96: 1] [Linode 128: 7] [Linode 192: 1] [Linode 256: 0]
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11:50	<@tjfontaine>	sigh
11:51	<schweeb>	so, what you do is, you apt-get source for the package, edit the one line in the config file to add the option you need, and then build a new package
11:51	<@adamg>	which still involves you building it
11:52	<schweeb>	1 package, instead of everything
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11:52	<@tjfontaine>	but when you're done you have one space and no extra headers laying around
11:52	<inkblot>	did i ping out?
11:52	<@adamg>	netsplit
11:52	<inkblot>	ah
11:52	<@tjfontaine>	hasn't returned yet
11:52	<inkblot>	i must have been on the dead server
11:52	<schweeb>	tjfontaine: hrm? explain yourself
11:53	<inkblot>	teh entarnet sure has sucked the last couple of days
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11:53	<@tjfontaine>	schweeb: just saying that when you're done rebuilding a package you only have to install what you need, for instance you don't have to intall devel headers and/or documentation
11:53	<@adamg>	but even under debian I still built things like mysql and apache etc bc the apt depos takes ages to update to new versions
11:54	<schweeb>	okay, time for the auto show, laterz
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11:58	*	jax is away: lunch
12:34	<EFudd>	http://forever.broked.net/logd
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12:36	<BrianB>	Hello all.
12:39	<@tjfontaine>	hi
12:40	<BrianB>	How are you all today?
12:40	<@tjfontaine>	yes I am
12:42	<BrianB>	I have a quick question regarding Linode.
12:42	<@tjfontaine>	ask away
12:43	<BrianB>	When you create a virtual machine, does that create swap as well? So like if I get the 128 megs, does that then partition out another 128 or 256 for swap?
12:43	<@tjfontaine>	you have to create the swap
12:44	<@tjfontaine>	so you either create a loopback swap inside one large partition or you have 2 seperate disk images
12:44	<BrianB>	Which takes away part of your space, right?
12:52	<@tjfontaine>	I hope you saw that I answered that question in my statement
12:53	<@tjfontaine>	you are responsible for your swap space, it is not seperate from your disk space allotment
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13:08	<whiprush>	anyone know if there is a password recovery to the web control panel?
13:08	<@adamg>	I think you will have to email caker
13:10	<whiprush>	thanks
13:12	<@adamg>	np
13:12	*	caker heads to meet mikegrb and heidi
13:12	<@adamg>	enjoy
13:12	<@caker>	cya
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13:16	<@tjfontaine>	heh
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13:37	<PhatsMcGovern>	newsome is the guy who owns the rights for QuickTime (tm)
13:39	<SupaDong1u>	and he's mayor of SF
13:39	SupaDong1u	is now known as SupaDongzu
13:39	<PhatsMcGovern>	SORENSON!
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14:02	*	jax is back (gone 02:03:42)
14:02	<SupaDongzu>	Oh.
14:05	<ckape>	Yes. Yes I see.
14:05	<@tjfontaine>	?
14:06	<SupaDongzu>	tjfontaine: it's very complicated. We wouldn't expect you to understand
14:06	<@tjfontaine>	SupaDongzu: of course
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14:11	~	ChanServ set +o adamgent on #linode
14:11	adamgent	is now known as adamg
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15:57	<k4k0>	caker: =D
16:02	<@adamg>	sighup linode forums
16:02	<sighup>	adamg: Linux Networking: Gentoo not having a domainname; General Discussion: Ensim installation help.; Sales Questions and Answers: I have a few questions; Linux Tips, Tricks, Tutorials: HOWTO: Set up an Invision Board Forum [Fedora]; Linode.com Announcements: Looking for a few Control Panel beta-testers
16:02	<ElfStone>	sighup: linode avail
16:02	<sighup>	Linode availability -- [Linode 64: 1] [Linode 96: 1] [Linode 128: 7] [Linode 192: 1] [Linode 256: 0]
16:02	<ElfStone>	O.o
16:02	<jax>	ooo, someone got a linode64 today
16:02	<ElfStone>	cpanel beat?
16:03	*	ElfStone needs $76
16:03	<@adamg>	thats nice
16:04	<ElfStone>	lol
16:04	<ElfStone>	how are you?
16:04	<@adamg>	tired
16:05	<@adamg>	just reading about how security at washington dc airport allowed someone to board a plane to the UK with 5 bullets
16:05	<limecat>	yeah
16:05	<k4k0>	when I type reboot in the bash the machine doesn't come back on line, i must go to the members page to make it works. Is there any command I can use to make the machine reboot properly?
16:06	<@caker>	hello
16:06	<@adamg>	yes and no
16:06	+	sjansen [~sjansen@128.187.245.142] joined #linode
16:06	<@adamg>	caker enjoy lunch
16:06	<@caker>	adamg: yes, and I took them on a very short tour of Nashville
16:06	<@adamg>	k4k0: i set-up an aliase in my bash profile to ssh to lish and issue a reboot command
16:07	<k4k0>	caker: did i saw my ticket? =D
16:07	<k4k0>	ops
16:07	<@caker>	adamg: almost done with the quick version of host-key login
16:07	<k4k0>	you 0D
16:07	<@adamg>	caker: I dont know if that is good or bad!
16:07	<@caker>	k4k0: yes, merging the b/w is fine with me, plus I'm going to up the b/w on all the plans soon
16:08	<@adamg>	yay
16:08	<@adamg>	not that I use more than a gig a month at the momment, but the more free bw the better
16:09	<ElfStone>	caker: mike and hedi?
16:09	<ElfStone>	seen something about them when i was looking to see if anyone said anything to me after i parted earlier
16:10	<@adamg>	ElfStone: caker did meet mike and heidi
16:10	<@caker>	EFudd: mikegrb and heidi from this channel, etc..
16:10	<ElfStone>	ah
16:10	<ElfStone>	cool
16:10	<ElfStone>	they live in va and drove there?
16:10	<@adamg>	the dangers or tab complete!!
16:10	<@caker>	ElfStone: yes, they're driving through
16:10	<ElfStone>	ah cool
16:11	<ElfStone>	caker: are you rasing diskapsce?
16:11	<ElfStone>	*space
16:11	<@caker>	maybe soon
16:11	<ElfStone>	would all current plans get upgradeing?
16:11	<@caker>	of course :)
16:11	<@adamg>	already done it once
16:11	<ElfStone>	oh
16:11	<ElfStone>	he rasied the current memebers?
16:12	<@caker>	ElfStone: yes, I did
16:12	<@adamg>	4 months or so ago
16:12	<ElfStone>	caker: you know a good compnay where i can get ads to place onto my site?
16:12	<ElfStone>	so cool cool
16:12	<ElfStone>	and got rid of 32's
16:12	<@caker>	ElfStone: google?
16:12	<@adamg>	ElfStone google
16:12	<ElfStone>	well
16:12	<ElfStone>	google told me no
16:12	<@adamg>	adsense
16:12	<ElfStone>	>.<
16:13	<ElfStone>	a page was down
16:13	<ElfStone>	and they said it was uncomplete
16:13	<ElfStone>	so they denied it
16:13	<@adamg>	and the site in question is
16:13	<ElfStone>	http://gileada.net
16:13	<ElfStone>	i am redoing it now
16:13	<ElfStone>	so the news looks fucked
16:13	*	EFudd looks at caker
16:14	<ElfStone>	it goes with the new design
16:14	<ElfStone>	the css makes it haev color
16:14	<EFudd>	upping bandwidth? hrm.
16:15	<ElfStone>	page in question is chat
16:15	<ElfStone>	whoch is fucked up
16:15	<@adamg>	and why is everything in the news box the same colour as the background so it cant be seen
16:15	<ElfStone>	adamg: as i said abaove
16:15	<ElfStone>	the news was the first thing i did
16:15	<ElfStone>	for the new design
16:16	<ElfStone>	the new oage css fixes it
16:17	<ElfStone>	this was a month ago
16:17	<ElfStone>	that they denied it
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16:24	<Newsome>	<PhatsMcGovern> newsome is the guy who owns the rights for QuickTime (tm)
16:24	<Newsome>	not quite
16:31	<ElfStone>	adamg: http://elvencloak.homelinux.net/gileada/
16:31	<ElfStone>	is the new design
16:32	<@adamg>	then update the site with that and resubmitt it to google
16:33	<ElfStone>	well
16:33	<ElfStone>	they do not accept sites
16:33	<ElfStone>	under constrion
16:33	<ElfStone>	so i need to finsih the transiton
16:56	<@adamg>	sighup linode avail
16:56	<sighup>	Linode availability -- [Linode 64: 2] [Linode 96: 0] [Linode 128: 7] [Linode 192: 1] [Linode 256: 0]
16:56	<@adamg>	those 96's took a long time to run out
16:58	<@caker>	I was almost completely sold out before the new year
16:59	<@caker>	I made a few slots available, plus a few people upgraded, opening more slots...
17:00	<@adamg>	those 64's should be gone in a few days
17:01	<@caker>	I have to chase down a few deadbeats (non-payers), so that might open a few slots if they don't/won't pay
17:02	<limecat>	how do people not pay? i thought it was automatically charged each month.
17:02	<ElfStone>	limecat: declined
17:03	<limecat>	ahh
17:03	=	jax [~stbe@255-208-pool1.P-POOL.MARIST.EDU] quit (Quit: cd ~)
17:03	<ElfStone>	caker: right?
17:04	<@caker>	Right .. cards get declined
17:04	<ElfStone>	do you charge
17:04	<ElfStone>	if the card is declined?
17:04	<@caker>	No
17:04	<@caker>	I try their card again in a few days, and after so many failures it gives up
17:05	<ElfStone>	well i know aol
17:05	<ElfStone>	charges anywayz
17:10	<Griswald>	AOL charges your phone company if it can't get your credit card I think (if you dial in)
17:10	<ElfStone>	Griswald: well they charged my mom's card once even without auth
17:11	<@caker>	man
17:11	<ElfStone>	caker: wha?
17:11	<@caker>	all that for $9.95
17:11	<ElfStone>	all what?
17:11	<@caker>	aol goes to all that trouble
17:11	<Griswald>	ElfStone: They charged my phone company and we never even signed up for 'em
17:11	<@caker>	Griswald: that is scary
17:11	<Griswald>	caker: It's $20 around here. lol
17:11	<@adamg>	alot of 9.95 add up
17:11	<Griswald>	not $10
17:11	<@caker>	adamg: yup
17:11	<@caker>	they're so huge, they're "in" with everyone ...
17:11	<Griswald>	juno is $10, the cheapest service 'round here
17:12	<Griswald>	nah, we got a discount in our next phonebill cuz of it
17:12	<Griswald>	AOL isn't allowed to charge us again
17:12	<Griswald>	unless they can prove we dialed in
17:12	<@caker>	AOL got me when I was on vacation -- in order to use my old handle, I had to pay the account up for the past 6 months since it was inactivated...
17:12	<ElfStone>	i use localnet
17:12	<ElfStone>	it is 99
17:12	<ElfStone>	*9.99
17:12	<Griswald>	:P
17:12	<Griswald>	Juno: $9.95
17:13	<ElfStone>	caker: lol it is 21.95
17:13	<ElfStone>	vbut
17:13	<ElfStone>	they mad e a reduced services
17:13	<Griswald>	I use them as a backup dialup isp when I'm not home at my cable modem :)
17:14	<@caker>	sighup: 300 * .8
17:14	<sighup>	240
17:14	<ElfStone>	sighup: who made you
17:14	<sighup>	elfstone: no idea
17:14	<ElfStone>	=P
17:14	<@caker>	sighup: primary directive?
17:14	<sighup>	i don't know, caker
17:15	<@adamg>	caker: no rush for that gentoo image, not rebuilding this weekend afterall, going to do some development instead
17:16	<@caker>	sighup: prime directives are Serve the Public Trust, Protect the Innocent and Uphold the Law
17:16	<sighup>	OK, caker.
17:16	<@caker>	adamg: okay .. how's coding coming, or still in design mode?
17:16	<@adamg>	for my new project I am nicking account handling code from another project so I can get a head start on it
17:17	<@adamg>	gotta change the templates for the account handling but then it should all work
17:17	<@adamg>	just need to add\write the code for backupmx and paypal ipn and the site should be able to go live
17:18	<@caker>	I take it this new project has something to do with backup mx?
17:18	<@adamg>	yeah
17:18	<@adamg>	backup-mx, secondary dns
17:18	<@adamg>	and probably auth smtp and primary dns when I get round to it
17:19	<@caker>	wow .. jeremy @ kerneltrap is quick with email reponses ..
17:20	<@caker>	couldn't have been more than three minutes
17:20	<@adamg>	and I hope to be able to add in if dns is fully controlled by me, I can check to see if there web server is online and if it is not, re-write the dns record to point to a backup server or to a server-down page on my apache server
17:20	<@caker>	very cool idea
17:20	<@adamg>	if you can catch people while they are in the process of answering mail, the response can be quick
17:20	<@adamg>	shouldnt be two hard to do
17:21	<@caker>	I uploaded a new banner to kt, but hadn't heard anything, so I inquired about it
17:21	<@caker>	http://www.linode.com/images/pr/banner_linode1_13k.gif
17:21	<@adamg>	and when there is money involved!
17:21	<@caker>	his advertising interface is still maturing ..
17:21	*	adamg is rubbish at web design and graphics
17:22	*	caker has to lift ideas
17:22	<@adamg>	i just tend to purchase web templates
17:22	<@adamg>	*unique web tempplates
17:22	<@caker>	like .. template monster, or whatever?
17:23	<@adamg>	usually from wht
17:23	<@adamg>	if I see a unique template I like, I tend to pick it up
17:23	<ElfStone>	lol
17:23	<@adamg>	although not been on wht for a few months, ever since it got sold
17:23	<ElfStone>	http://www.owsd.org
17:23	<@caker>	ohh yeah .. banner live :)
17:24	*	caker 0wns
17:24	<ElfStone>	bannerlive?
17:24	<@caker>	the banner is live/activated/on/showing
17:24	<@caker>	http://kerneltrap.org/
17:24	<ElfStone>	ah
17:24	<@caker>	There's only 4 or 5 banners running on his site
17:24	<ElfStone>	ah
17:24	<ElfStone>	i need some inflow on ads
17:25	<@caker>	I must say, the banner looks damn good :)
17:25	<@adamg>	if your that desperate go to some things like bannerexchange
17:25	<ElfStone>	lol
17:25	<ElfStone>	i do not haev that many vistors
17:25	<ElfStone>	for what they want
17:25	<@adamg>	can only see the side advert ofr linode at the momment
17:26	<@adamg>	and now I am getting db errors
17:26	<@caker>	heh
17:26	<@adamg>	insert into cache...
17:27	<@adamg>	giving up..
17:27	<@adamg>	caker: if I was to have multiple linode accounts could the bw usage be pooled
17:28	<@caker>	adamg: yes, although the LPM wouldn't display it as such
17:28	<@caker>	I just told k4k0 I'd do that for him...
17:28	<@adamg>	roll on linode-ha ;-)
17:29	<@adamg>	in that case it is cheaper to purchase another linode than it is to purchase the bw seperatly!
17:29	<@caker>	yup, and always will be ..
17:29	<@adamg>	why
17:30	<@caker>	Because I have to provide a decend chunk of b/w with each account to be competitive
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17:30	<@caker>	even if/when I drop b/w prices, you'll still get more b/w included in an account for less than the costs of the b/w alone..
17:31	<@adamg>	yeah I know that, it just seems that it would make more sense that if someone was doing that to give them the bw at a special price, the same price as the linode and have the linode to sell to someone else
17:31	<@caker>	I'll have to play with the numbers a bit
17:32	<@caker>	adamg: I'll pool the b/w for customers who ask me, but that won't be the general rule
17:32	<@adamg>	ok
17:32	<@adamg>	gotta put some pricing together and bw is the biggest restriction
17:32	<@adamg>	and probably hd space as well
17:32	<@caker>	I think you'd make out ok since email and dns is fairly low b/w .. right?
17:33	<@caker>	especially a secondary mx...
17:33	<@adamg>	hopefully
17:33	<@adamg>	that is the thing the secondary mx should really never be used
17:33	<@adamg>	the auth smtp could be more of a problem though
17:35	<@adamg>	but if things go to plan I will hopefully end up with a collection of around 20 linodes
17:38	<@caker>	20 Linodes all serving segments of your client base, or would some of them be replicated/backup/HA type setup?
17:38	<@adamg>	split between the DC's
17:38	<@caker>	all running the same code?
17:39	<@adamg>	backup mx at each, secondary dns at each, mysql, apache, relay auth at each
17:39	<@caker>	ok
17:39	<@adamg>	I also want to be able to limit x clients to one linode etc
17:40	<@caker>	I see.
17:40	<@caker>	Are you going to try to put DNS info into mysql?
17:40	*	adamg also wants a build machine as each dc
17:40	<@adamg>	no
17:40	<@adamg>	well yes and no
17:40	<@caker>	I know they'll all slave at first, but you need to build your named.conf file
17:40	<@adamg>	yeah a perl script will do that hourly
17:41	<@adamg>	that is the really easy bit
17:42	<@caker>	I'm doing the same thing for rdns zones .. I have a template file which contains the "top" portion of the zone file .. one that I can add custom stuff to, then a script comes along, takes the template, replaces some variables (serial number), and loops over all the rdns entries in the db
17:42	<@adamg>	basically what I will be doing using html::template
17:42	<@adamg>	i use html::template for everything
17:42	<@caker>	even for non html?
17:42	<@adamg>	yeah
17:42	<@caker>	man, I'm such a slacker .. I never use modules
17:42	<@adamg>	email templates etc
17:43	<limecat>	would anyone here know where i could find a guide for newbies for setting up postfix?
17:43	<@caker>	I probably would be better off in the long run learning all the modules calls, rather than open/split/regex/loop/blah/write/close stuff
17:43	<@adamg>	it is really easy to use and started under perl but is not available in many scripting languages so it makes the templates moveable accross languages
17:44	<@caker>	cool
17:44	<@caker>	limecat: not off hand, sorry
17:44	<@adamg>	i use cgi::aplication for webbased apps
17:44	<@caker>	not into php at all?
17:44	<@adamg>	never got round to learning it
17:45	<@adamg>	and I like perl
17:45	<ElfStone>	i am
17:45	<ElfStone>	i am trying to find a phpirc
17:45	<ElfStone>	know of any?
17:45	<@adamg>	it may be annoying and cumbersum to some but I like it
17:45	<@caker>	ElfStone: never heard of it
17:45	<@caker>	adamg: I enjoy perl too :)
17:46	<ElfStone>	a php irc clinet
17:46	<ElfStone>	found java
17:46	<ElfStone>	and a cgi
17:46	<@adamg>	i really cant see the point in learning something new when perl is fine and has been around for years and perl has 1000's of modules available
17:46	<@adamg>	php is relativly new
17:47	<ElfStone>	adamg: not really
17:47	<@adamg>	php was designed for the web, perl was around long before the web and modules where written to let it work easily with the web
17:47	<ElfStone>	it has becomae popural lately
17:47	<limecat>	perl's popularity seems to be declining lately.
17:48	<limecat>	php and python are gaining popularity. not that perl will ever become a has-been.
17:48	<@adamg>	that is because php is easier to learn than perl with no programming background, which is where alot of people are coming from
17:49	<limecat>	yes
17:50	<limecat>	and because php has excellent object-oriented capabilities! ;)
17:50	*	adamg really does need a build machine or two
17:51	<@adamg>	i just pitty the host it will end up on
17:51	<@caker>	ehe .. nah :)
17:51	<limecat>	say, caker...what happens if i exceed my bandwidth in a month?
17:51	<@caker>	limecat: after the end of the month, I send you a bill
17:51	<limecat>	like say slashdot links to something on my site. will i just be charged for the extra or will it shutoff automatically?
17:52	<@caker>	limecat: nothing is shutoff
17:52	<limecat>	could it shut-off if i wanted to?
17:52	<@caker>	limecat: not yet, although I know people would like that feature
17:52	*	caker adds to to-do list
17:53	*	EFudd has XM Radio on his PC now
17:53	<@caker>	EFudd: funny :)
17:54	<EFudd>	XM PCR unit from PC connetion
17:54	<EFudd>	$50 radio
17:54	<@caker>	hmm .. is XM digital?
17:54	<EFudd>	USB to control it
17:54	<EFudd>	line-out on it to line-in on audio card
17:54	<@caker>	that was my next question
17:54	<EFudd>	there is a perl API for it also
17:54	<EFudd>	the API allows auto-saving in mp3 format
17:54	<EFudd>	:-)
17:54	<@caker>	but it goes through D/A-A/D conversion
17:54	<EFudd>	yah. XM is digital.
17:54	<EFudd>	Right.
17:54	<@caker>	no biggie, just asking
17:54	<EFudd>	But xmfan.com sells a $80 XM PCR unit
17:54	<@caker>	neat
17:54	<EFudd>	it's got a toslink optical port on it
17:55	<EFudd>	so bypasses the D/A
17:55	<EFudd>	they also sell a $30 DIY kit to modify your current radio. both the PCR and various others
17:56	<EFudd>	I'm actulay not on the satellite right now
17:56	<EFudd>	instead i'm on terrestrial repeaters
17:56	<@caker>	crazy
17:56	<@caker>	so what's the major selling point for XM radio? 50000 channels?
17:56	<EFudd>	kinda spiffy actually. i /rarely/ listen to regular radio
17:56	<EFudd>	XM is also getting rid of all comemrcials on their music stations march1
17:56	<EFudd>	er... "mostly commercial free digital audio coast to coast"
17:56	<@caker>	because its a subscription service
17:56	<EFudd>	which is now "commercial free..."
17:57	<@caker>	?
17:57	<EFudd>	original selling point
17:57	<EFudd>	vs selling point march 1
17:57	<@caker>	Is XM a subscription service?
17:57	<EFudd>	Oh, Yes.
17:57	<EFudd>	$10/mo for the first radio.
17:57	<EFudd>	$7/mo for each additional.
17:57	<@caker>	ugh :)
17:58	<@caker>	ugh @ per radio charges
17:58	<EFudd>	.... well, regular radio sux bad
17:59	<@caker>	sucks enough to make me pay that little for XM (if I was more of a radio listner)
17:59	<@caker>	if I hear Bob and Tom one more time !!
17:59	<EFudd>	well, i listen to the radio every time i'm in the car :)
17:59	<ElfStone>	lol
18:00	<ElfStone>	i like my local radio station
18:00	*	caker sees referrals from kerneltrap banner :)
18:00	<@caker>	Google charged me an arm and a leg the past two months
18:01	<@caker>	which shows an increase in people seaerching for virtual servers
18:01	<ElfStone>	caker: >.< lol
18:01	<@caker>	like 5x increase (!)
18:01	<ElfStone>	lol
18:01	<ElfStone>	you do google banners?
18:01	<@caker>	ElfStone: yup
18:01	<@caker>	expensive ones ..
18:01	<@caker>	I'm turning them down a bit, was way too expensive
18:02	<EFudd>	i can imagine
18:02	<EFudd>	:)
18:02	<ElfStone>	hehe
18:02	<ElfStone>	cool
18:02	<limecat>	i just realized that i can make a RAID array of floppy drives
18:02	<EFudd>	http://lineup.xmradio.com
18:02	<ElfStone>	how much you pay kernaltrap
18:02	<ElfStone>	per referral?
18:02	<limecat>	now i want to get about eight of them and make a RADI
18:02	<limecat>	RAID*
18:02	<limecat>	8 * 1.4 = 11.3 megs!
18:02	<EFudd>	68 commercial free music stations, 32 channels of news, sports, talk, and entertainment
18:05	=	k4k0 [~c8a51dd5@webuser.linode.com] quit (Quit: CGI:IRC)
18:19	=	Newsome [~sorenson@asterix.cs.byu.edu] quit (Quit: Leaving)
18:22	*	caker sees more kerneltrap traffic :)
18:23	<@caker>	ElfStone: its free-run for a set price .. $100/month for banner ads, and I think $30 or $40 for text ads .. plus a discount if you do multiple months
18:31	<@guinea-sleep>	perhaps the past two months was just a 5x increase in searching... for gifts? christmas season, and all
18:32	<@caker>	could be.. I have heard from webhosting/isp people that nov-april are the biggest months
18:34	<@guinea-sleep>	heh
18:34	<@guinea-sleep>	all those people that lose decent net connectivity in the winter? :P
18:36	<sjansen>	Any of the perl guys used AxKit and wanna give an opinion?
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19:00	<limecat>	woah...goatse.cx has been supsended by its registrar
19:01	*	guinea-sleep cries censorship
19:02	<@guinea-sleep>	i'm not sure whether to be nervous or laugh maniacally
19:03	<@guinea-sleep>	dna-proxy.kadena.af.mil - - [14/Jan/2004:18:44:27 -0500] "GET /audio/software/Nullsoft_Vorbis_Decoder.exe HTTP/1.1" 200 115368
19:04	<@guinea-sleep>	heh nevermind
19:08	<@adamg>	erm
19:14	<@adamg>	hmm
19:21	*	adamg thinks it is time to get some sleep
19:39	<@adamg>	nite all
19:39	<@caker>	goodnight Adam
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---	Log	closed Thu Jan 15 00:00:05 2004