| --- | Log | opened Fri Jan 09 00:00:34 2004 |
| 00:26 | <@tjfontaine> | I spose it isn't enough that jsut before he finds out he is Tyler Durden that the guy in the bar calls him Mr. Durden |
| 00:31 | <SupaDongzu> | or that tyler appears for one or two frames at a time while he's at the doctor and the focus group |
| 00:31 | <SupaDongzu> | or that you never hear his real name |
| 00:31 | <SupaDongzu> | or that meatloaf wears a big comedic fatsuit |
| 00:31 | <@tjfontaine> | you're familiar with the arguement? |
| 00:31 | <SupaDongzu> | yes |
| 00:31 | <SupaDongzu> | basically it goes like this: |
| 00:32 | <SupaDongzu> | If you look at american currency, you notice that the candidate that wins presidential elections tends to be the one with the widest face |
| 00:32 | <SupaDongzu> | so if you were to put up, say, Ted Koppel or Meatloaf, you'd be unstoppable! |
| 00:32 | <schweeb> | \ |
| 00:32 | <@tjfontaine> | wtf heh |
| 00:33 | <@tjfontaine> | so I pose this question |
| 00:33 | <@tjfontaine> | when Brad Pitt is confronting Edward Norton in the hotel room |
| 00:33 | <@tjfontaine> | and Ed norton says "But you have a house" and Brad says "Rented in your name" |
| 00:34 | <@tjfontaine> | one can't be sure, but... that leads me to believe Ed Norton's real name in the movie is Tyler Durden |
| 00:34 | <SupaDongzu> | Well |
| 00:34 | <SupaDongzu> | See, Holly can only support one hologram at a time |
| 00:34 | <SupaDongzu> | so they have to take turns |
| 00:34 | <SupaDongzu> | it all makes sense if you read the spoilers |
| 00:35 | <@tjfontaine> | right, but the theory I'm arguing here is that Ed Nortons name in the movie is *not* jack |
| 00:35 | <@tjfontaine> | in fact |
| 00:35 | <SupaDongzu> | Turns out there never really was a John G. |
| 00:35 | <SupaDongzu> | uh |
| 00:35 | <SupaDongzu> | it was never jack |
| 00:35 | <@tjfontaine> | the subtitles refer to him only has Narrator |
| 00:35 | <@tjfontaine> | rihgt, but people like guinea-pig think his real name is jack |
| 00:35 | <SupaDongzu> | no |
| 00:35 | <SupaDongzu> | people refer to him as "Jack" for lack of any otehr name |
| 00:35 | <@tjfontaine> | while I on the other hand believe they are both named tyler durden |
| 00:35 | <SupaDongzu> | just because he reads that guy's poems |
| 00:35 | <@tjfontaine> | exactly! |
| 00:36 | <@tjfontaine> | see see others believe what I beleive I'm not alone |
| 00:36 | <SupaDongzu> | I'm pretty convinced his real name was Chris Amin |
| 00:36 | <psykoyiko> | ha ha |
| 00:36 | <@tjfontaine> | hmm proof? |
| 00:36 | <SupaDongzu> | There are subtle clues throughout the film |
| 00:36 | <@tjfontaine> | Whos chris amin? |
| 00:36 | <@tjfontaine> | scene reference? |
| 00:36 | <SupaDongzu> | 24:59:03 |
| 00:37 | <SupaDongzu> | of course, my VCR only does metric... |
| 00:37 | <@tjfontaine> | heh |
| 00:37 | <SupaDongzu> | tjfontaine: KEEP WATCHING THE SKIES |
| 00:38 | * | tjfontaine thinks he's being lead astray |
| 00:38 | <SupaDongzu> | okay |
| 00:38 | <SupaDongzu> | honestly |
| 00:38 | <SupaDongzu> | it's true that there never really was a John G. |
| 00:39 | <SupaDongzu> | But if you look carefully, you can see the moment when he dies for real |
| 00:39 | <SupaDongzu> | Because the sled was the only memory of a happy childhood |
| 00:39 | <@tjfontaine> | rofl |
| 00:39 | <@tjfontaine> | okay rosebud |
| 00:39 | <SupaDongzu> | no no, hear me out |
| 00:40 | <SupaDongzu> | I don't think you really udnerstand how the Vorlons fit into the whole psicorps thing |
| 00:40 | <SupaDongzu> | See, first bilbo killed the klingons with his magic sword |
| 00:58 | <@tjfontaine> | guinea-pig: the more I think about it, its very important that you read the book... you're not going to like it as much as the movie, but it's important you read it |
| 00:58 | <@tjfontaine> | and with that I bid you farewell |
| 01:01 | <SupaDongzu> | the book has much more gay lust |
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| 07:33 | <wap> | Good afternoon. |
| 08:08 | <shakr> | Morning :) and gnite |
| 08:16 | <@mikegrb> | morning |
| 08:32 | <heidi> | morning |
| 08:33 | <@adamg> | tis afternoon |
| 08:36 | + | probonic [~phil@host81-128-236-122.in-addr.btopenworld.com] joined #linode |
| 08:38 | <wap> | Happy new year heidi & mike! |
| 08:39 | <wap> | to the cats too ;) |
| 08:39 | <heidi> | happy new year wap |
| 08:39 | * | wap is in love and feels like a teenager again ;) |
| 08:39 | <heidi> | great |
| 08:40 | <heidi> | good for you |
| 08:40 | <heidi> | I am happy for you |
| 08:40 | <wap> | yep, that makes life definitly more interesting ;) |
| 08:40 | <heidi> | yeah |
| 08:40 | <heidi> | it does |
| 08:41 | <heidi> | is it someone you found over the holidays? |
| 08:41 | = | You_Wish [~You_Wish@adsl-068-209-131-003.sip.jax.bellsouth.net] quit (Read error: Connection reset by peer) |
| 08:49 | <@adamg> | mikegrb: what anti-spam software are you using |
| 08:49 | <@mikegrb> | dspam |
| 08:49 | <@mikegrb> | www.nuclearelepahnt.com/projects/dspam |
| 08:49 | <@mikegrb> | works fantasticly |
| 08:50 | <@adamg> | end client or server based |
| 08:50 | <@adamg> | and that web address does not work |
| 08:50 | <@mikegrb> | hmm |
| 08:50 | <@mikegrb> | oh typo on elephant |
| 08:51 | <@mikegrb> | it is server based |
| 08:51 | <@mikegrb> | messages get a little identified and if they are mis id'ed you fwd it back |
| 08:51 | <@mikegrb> | ie if I get spam in my inbox I fwd it to spam-michael@thegrebs.com |
| 08:51 | <@mikegrb> | or if I have a false positive it goes to fp-michael@thegrebs.com |
| 08:51 | <@mikegrb> | dspam has courier intigration docs |
| 08:51 | <@mikegrb> | I wrote them :) |
| 08:52 | * | adamg goes to see if it does what he needs |
| 08:52 | <@mikegrb> | :) |
| 08:52 | <@mikegrb> | I've been happy |
| 08:52 | <@mikegrb> | pretty flexible |
| 08:52 | <@mikegrb> | by default it uses chained tokens wich vastly immproves it's effectiveness |
| 08:53 | <@adamg> | by the looks of it, it doesnt |
| 08:53 | <@mikegrb> | supports several backend for storing data (mysql, bDB, oracle) |
| 08:53 | <@mikegrb> | oh? |
| 08:53 | <@mikegrb> | what do you need? |
| 08:53 | <@adamg> | challange response system |
| 08:54 | <@adamg> | http://tmda.net |
| 08:54 | <@mikegrb> | oh |
| 08:54 | <@adamg> | http://www.paganini.net/ask/ |
| 08:54 | <@mikegrb> | yeah doesn't do that |
| 08:55 | <@adamg> | looks at adding auth smtp relay to my 2ndserver offerings |
| 08:56 | <@mikegrb> | :) |
| 08:57 | <@adamg> | stressing the AUTH bit |
| 08:57 | <@mikegrb> | indeed |
| 08:57 | <@adamg> | so many people on laptops etc cant use there ISPs smtp server |
| 08:57 | <@mikegrb> | right |
| 08:58 | <@mikegrb> | for various reasons |
| 08:58 | <@adamg> | i would like to intergrate spam control into the sending of emails as an extra level of checks |
| 08:58 | <@mikegrb> | aye |
| 08:58 | <@adamg> | wouldnt need challange response for that bi thtough |
| 08:59 | <@adamg> | just bounce back all 100% confirmed spam messages |
| 08:59 | <@mikegrb> | spamassasin type stuff might work best for that |
| 08:59 | <@mikegrb> | sf uses it on it's mailing lists |
| 09:01 | <@adamg> | erm spamassain is written in perl |
| 09:02 | <EFudd> | 4WD + Snow == fun. |
| 09:05 | <@adamg> | hrm no intergration docs for courier and spamassain |
| 09:06 | <schweeb> | you use procmail |
| 09:06 | <schweeb> | I dunno how courier MTA works exactly |
| 09:06 | <EFudd> | courier is ass! |
| 09:06 | <EFudd> | spamassasin eh? |
| 09:06 | <EFudd> | adam, what MTA are you using, courier for receiving SMTP or postfix? |
| 09:07 | <@adamg> | courier |
| 09:07 | <schweeb> | but you pipe the messages to procmail and have procmail spamassassin them and then deliver them... or soemthing like that |
| 09:07 | <EFudd> | Ok. |
| 09:07 | <schweeb> | I prefer postfix |
| 09:07 | <EFudd> | s/courier/postfix/ |
| 09:07 | <EFudd> | then use spampd =] |
| 09:07 | <EFudd> | use courier to provide your imap services or sompn. |
| 09:07 | <schweeb> | courier imap is pretty sweet |
| 09:07 | <EFudd> | I guess. |
| 09:07 | * | EFudd prefers cyrus |
| 09:08 | <schweeb> | cyrus doesn't do Maildirs does it? |
| 09:08 | <EFudd> | Nope. cyrus is it's own maildir-esque format. |
| 09:08 | <schweeb> | figured. |
| 09:08 | <schweeb> | I use Maildirs for everything |
| 09:09 | * | adamg likes courier |
| 09:09 | <@mikegrb> | help me |
| 09:10 | <@mikegrb> | who can I send an email to right quck |
| 09:10 | <schweeb> | chris@schweeb.org |
| 09:10 | <@mikegrb> | I need to confirm which ip address it comes from |
| 09:10 | <EFudd> | mike@broked.net |
| 09:10 | <@mikegrb> | sent |
| 09:10 | <EFudd> | to which? :P |
| 09:10 | <@mikegrb> | schweeb was quicker on the draw |
| 09:10 | <@mikegrb> | heh |
| 09:11 | <@mikegrb> | can you paste the receive line |
| 09:11 | * | EFudd blackholes mike@broked.net |
| 09:11 | <@mikegrb> | heh |
| 09:11 | <schweeb> | rom thegrebs.com (thegrebs.com [64.62.190.57])by schweeb.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DAB42D774for <chris@schweeb.org>; Fri, 9 Jan 2004 09:11:47 -0500 (EST) |
| 09:11 | <EFudd> | it's an email address in the wild. it must be contained! |
| 09:11 | <@mikegrb> | schweeb: thanks |
| 09:12 | <schweeb> | np |
| 09:12 | <@mikegrb> | adding an SPF record |
| 09:12 | <EFudd> | spf ? |
| 09:12 | <EFudd> | your mta has a tan line ? |
| 09:12 | <@mikegrb> | don't plan on authenticating against it myself but what the heck |
| 09:12 | <@mikegrb> | EFudd: spf.pobox.com |
| 09:12 | <EFudd> | I see. |
| 09:12 | <EFudd> | whitelist. |
| 09:13 | <@adamg> | so with spampd it runs as a proxy between the mail server and the public, so it would listen on port 25 and then forward all legit mail on to a smtp server on another server or on another port |
| 09:13 | <EFudd> | adam, Yah. |
| 09:13 | <schweeb> | ugh |
| 09:13 | <schweeb> | SASL. |
| 09:13 | <EFudd> | smtp inet n - n - - smtpd |
| 09:13 | <EFudd> | -o content_filter=smtp:127.0.0.1:10025 |
| 09:13 | <EFudd> | -o myhostname=forever.broked.net |
| 09:13 | <EFudd> | 127.0.0.1:10026 inet n - n - 10 smtpd |
| 09:13 | <EFudd> | -o content_filter= |
| 09:13 | <EFudd> | -o myhostname=forever-spam.broked.net |
| 09:14 | <@adamg> | so you could run spampd on the public IP on port 25 and then forward all the mail on to the smtp server |
| 09:15 | <EFudd> | I wouldn't. |
| 09:15 | <EFudd> | spampd has a tendency to die from time to time. (version/load dependent.) |
| 09:15 | <EFudd> | let something more mature actually accept/queue mail. |
| 09:15 | <@adamg> | oh ok |
| 09:15 | <schweeb> | http://arswiki.com/bin/view/Linux/MailServerFAQ#5_0_Procmail_and_Spamassassin <-- for whoever was asking about SA |
| 09:16 | * | EFudd works a bit |
| 09:16 | <@adamg> | so I would use something like courier to recieve the mail and then relay it out to the destintion smtp server via spampd |
| 09:23 | <@adamg> | right got it now, final attempt |
| 09:25 | <@adamg> | mail is recieved by something like courier, if courier is allowed to relay the mail it relays it out via spamPD, spamPD then then relays the mail on to another smtp server which sends it on |
| 09:25 | <schweeb> | adamg: tell me again exactly what you're trying to accomplish? |
| 09:26 | <@adamg> | spam checking on mail recived via auth smtp before it is sent out to the recipitent |
| 09:26 | <@adamg> | which looks like spamPD will do |
| 09:26 | <schweeb> | ah |
| 09:27 | <schweeb> | courier w/ auth -> spampd -> internet |
| 09:27 | <@adamg> | it would have to be courier w/ auth -> spampd -> smtpd -> internet |
| 09:28 | <@adamg> | spampd is not an smtpd |
| 09:28 | <schweeb> | ah, sounded like it was |
| 09:29 | <@adamg> | it is a proxy |
| 09:29 | <EFudd> | mail 1242 1 0 2003 ? 00:00:09 /usr/bin/perl -T /usr/sbin/spampd --pid=/var/run/spampd.pid --host=127.0.0.1:10025 --relayhost=127.0.0.1:10026 --tagall -maxsize=1024000 |
| 09:29 | <EFudd> | well, it kinda is. but er. yeah. proxy. :) |
| 09:29 | <@adamg> | so that listends on 10025 and then send all mail back out to 10026 |
| 09:29 | <schweeb> | actually |
| 09:29 | <@adamg> | so I am assuming you have some sort of smtpd running on the usual port 25 and on 10026 |
| 09:30 | <schweeb> | it should be able to proxy the auth |
| 09:30 | <EFudd> | er |
| 09:30 | <EFudd> | no. |
| 09:30 | <schweeb> | can't proxy the auth? spampd's page says it's entirely transparent |
| 09:30 | <@adamg> | from what I gather all if does is passes the mail via spamassassin |
| 09:30 | <@adamg> | you shouldnt have it running on a public port |
| 09:31 | <EFudd> | yes |
| 09:31 | <EFudd> | bound localhost only. or internal net. |
| 09:32 | <@adamg> | so i would need to set-up the stmpd server to run on two ports and if I set it to freely relay mail from the IP that spamd is running on it will relay the mail out without a problem |
| 09:33 | <@adamg> | EFudd and you send any mail less that about a meg to spamassign |
| 09:34 | <EFudd> | er? right. i don't want attachments. |
| 09:34 | <EFudd> | or rather |
| 09:34 | <EFudd> | i think that makes spampd not process messages > 1MB |
| 09:34 | <EFudd> | it just goes "ok. not scanning. passing on." |
| 09:34 | <EFudd> | i forget. either way, it's valid for me :) |
| 09:35 | <@adamg> | yeah by default it is 64k |
| 09:35 | <@adamg> | but it stops alot of stuff |
| 09:35 | <@adamg> | i understand at last |
| 09:36 | <@adamg> | and I just need to set-up courier to relay everything from localhost which it does but require auth from everywhere else and to run on 2 ports |
| 09:37 | <EFudd> | eh, I auth directly to cyrus. accept/spamfilter on postfix, forward spam-mark on spamassissin, deliver to cyrus and filter with sieve |
| 09:38 | <@adamg> | well possible spam I need to be forwarded on untouched but everything which is 100% spam is to be bounced back |
| 09:40 | <@adamg> | since this is going to be an outgoing smtp server |
| 09:40 | <EFudd> | I don't bounce. |
| 09:40 | <EFudd> | if I accept, it gets delivered to me. possibly marked as spam |
| 09:40 | <EFudd> | Fetching message headers... [240/780] |
| 09:40 | <EFudd> | spam in 2days. |
| 09:40 | <EFudd> | 0 kept, 780 deleted. |
| 09:41 | <@adamg> | i might just not bother with a spam check and just get it to relay it out |
| 09:44 | <@adamg> | and if I start offering end user mail hosting add various spam checks to that, and with my auth SMTP just let the end users deal with the spam |
| 09:44 | <EFudd> | the only isue with that is an increased load on your system. |
| 09:44 | <EFudd> | But yeah. that's what i'm doing effectively. |
| 09:45 | <@adamg> | load is not a major problem I can spread things accross various servers |
| 09:45 | <@adamg> | on the incoming side probably end up with public smtp server in mx -> spamPD -> internal smtp server -> mailboxes |
| 09:46 | <EFudd> | yah. valid. |
| 09:46 | <@adamg> | I think that is the best way for the recieving of mail |
| 09:46 | <@adamg> | still comtemplating offering mail hosting |
| 09:46 | <EFudd> | that's my solution. basically. |
| 09:47 | <EFudd> | where (internal smtp server -> mailboxes) == cyrus |
| 09:48 | <@adamg> | and then on the internal smtp server have something like dspam and then on user choice a challange response system for all none whitelist mail |
| 09:51 | <@adamg> | gotta run back in a few hours or so |
| 10:12 | <sinned> | blocking spam on the server increases load, not decreases |
| 10:22 | <@inkblot> | ha ha spam |
| 10:22 | <@inkblot> | that is such a solved problem |
| 10:27 | <sinned> | it is? |
| 10:28 | <sinned> | well, i dunno, i don't even use any spam blockign software and i only get ~1 spam per day |
| 10:28 | <sinned> | so it isn't a bad problem for me |
| 10:28 | <sinned> | but i don't see how it's solved |
| 10:36 | <schweeb> | it is /not/ solved, inkblot, spam still gets through, and if it was solved, we wouldn't have to do anything to block it in the first place |
| 10:53 | <@inkblot> | no, it's definitely solved |
| 10:53 | + | jax [~stbe@255-208-pool1.P-POOL.MARIST.EDU] joined #linode |
| 10:53 | <@inkblot> | i never read any spam |
| 10:53 | <@inkblot> | there used to be a time when i'd be skipping through my inbox and whoops, that one was a spam |
| 10:53 | <@inkblot> | but not anymore |
| 10:53 | <@inkblot> | it's all neatly sorted out |
| 10:53 | <NeXTer> | If spam is hogging more than half the bandwidth of the internet, how is that a "solved problem"? |
| 10:54 | <@inkblot> | i don't read any of it |
| 10:54 | <@inkblot> | it does not steal my attention |
| 10:54 | <@inkblot> | which is more valuable to me than my bandwidth |
| 10:54 | <NeXTer> | Out of sight, out of mind? |
| 10:54 | <@inkblot> | you could say that |
| 10:54 | <ajr> | i'm running a server filtering spam solution on a linode, http://www.e4ward.com |
| 10:57 | <@inkblot> | i clear out my bulk folder once in a while |
| 10:57 | <@inkblot> | and i've noticed that over time, there are fewer and fewer messages to clear out |
| 10:58 | <@inkblot> | i think spammers are focusing more on the 99% of users (hotmail.com, yahoo.com, $ISP.net) that don't know how to deal |
| 10:58 | <@inkblot> | and less on the 1% (me) who do |
| 11:01 | <@inkblot> | i've also tightened up my mail server configuration so that a lot of bogus smtp clients are rejected prima facie |
| 11:02 | <@inkblot> | the biggest killer is the requirement of fully-qualified and extant hostnames in the HELO/EHLO command |
| 11:03 | <@inkblot> | runner up is the requirement that the domain in the envelope sender has A or MX records |
| 11:03 | <@inkblot> | that kills all non-returnable mail |
| 11:04 | <@inkblot> | which is all spam in practice |
| 11:05 | <@inkblot> | also, tarpitting |
| 11:05 | <@inkblot> | a mail server that violates any of those and other requirements is automatically penalized with tarpitting |
| 11:06 | <@inkblot> | properly configured legitimate servers don't hit any of this |
| 11:06 | <@inkblot> | and improperly configure legitimate servers are someone else's problem |
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| 12:56 | guinea-work | is now known as guinea-pig |
| 13:03 | <jax> | sorry for sounding like an idiot, but what is the purpose of having more than 1 ip for a linode? |
| 13:03 | <@caker> | jax: for example, SSL certs need an IP per cert (website) |
| 13:04 | <@caker> | jax: IRC people use different IPs for vanity reverse dns |
| 13:04 | <jax> | would i have a problem hosting a couple different domains? |
| 13:05 | <jax> | i wouldn't think so |
| 13:05 | <@caker> | Not unless you need SSL certs, which is pretty much the only reason to not use named-based virtualhosts |
| 13:06 | <jax> | thanks |
| 13:06 | <@caker> | np |
| 13:06 | <ajr> | caker, have are you aware of any problems with HE being blackholed from spam |
| 13:07 | <ajr> | for/from |
| 13:07 | <@tjfontaine> | ftp is also incapable of doing name based vhosting |
| 13:07 | <@caker> | ajr: No, when did this happen? |
| 13:07 | <@tjfontaine> | so for each 'vhost' in ftp you'll need an ip |
| 13:07 | <@caker> | ajr: which IP range? |
| 13:08 | <ajr> | caker: i'm not saying it did but i read some negative posts on nanae about HE, also i know that it hosts spamgourmet which I would imagine might cause some blackholing |
| 13:08 | <limecat> | ajr: linkage? |
| 13:09 | <ajr> | 1sec |
| 13:10 | <@caker> | afaik, all the HE ips are clean |
| 13:12 | <ajr> | this is one of the threads that got my attention http://groups.google.com/groups?q=hurricane+group:news.admin.net-abuse.email&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&group=news.admin.net-abuse.email&safe=off&edition=us&selm=btf1bd%246evra%241%40ID-206651.news.uni-berlin.de&rnum=3 |
| 13:13 | <ajr> | the head post of that thread is pretty negative |
| 13:14 | <@caker> | As a rule, I always throw out the most negative and the most positive view points when people post stuff like this |
| 13:14 | <ajr> | i'm just concerned since i'm running a forward service something like spamgourmet |
| 13:15 | <@caker> | and in my experience, you could probably find people that have the same opinion about any dc provider |
| 13:15 | <ajr> | yeah theres plenty of nuts out there |
| 13:15 | <@caker> | Just stick to the TOS (which inherit both TP and HE's rules) and you'll be fine |
| 13:16 | <@caker> | Mostly, I think it is spam-people who block huge ranges because they see one or two IPs from a block |
| 13:16 | <@caker> | which isn't the solution (not like blacklists are a solution, to begin with, but...) |
| 13:17 | <ajr> | yes there seems to be a shoot-first attitude with regard to blackholing |
| 13:17 | <@caker> | yeah |
| 13:18 | <@inkblot> | the idea of blacklisting netblocks is not too many steps away from blacklisting the entire internet "because the internet has spammers" |
| 13:18 | <@caker> | I have control over entire 255 ip blocks, which is what would likely get blocked if there were multiple offenders.. so at least we're not at the mercy of others in the same block doing bad things that could affect us |
| 13:18 | <@tjfontaine> | inkblot: aye |
| 13:18 | <ajr> | caker: well that good to know |
| 13:19 | <@tjfontaine> | thats the thing about attractive pricing, it attracts the good and the bad :-) |
| 13:19 | <@caker> | the bad get punished :) |
| 13:19 | <@tjfontaine> | heh |
| 13:20 | <@caker> | I suppose at some point in the future, it might be a good idea for me to monitor smtp traffic ... although in principal I'm against it |
| 13:20 | <@tjfontaine> | sighup: linode avail? |
| 13:20 | <sighup> | Linode availability -- [Linode 64: 3] [Linode 96: 0] [Linode 128: 7] [Linode 192: 2] [Linode 256: 0] |
| 13:20 | <@inkblot> | wooooo |
| 13:20 | <@tjfontaine> | caker: if I upgrade to 192 will that require a host move? |
| 13:20 | <@caker> | tjfontaine: yes ... how soon? |
| 13:21 | <@caker> | I should have another Linode 192 host soon, but at HE this time |
| 13:21 | <@tjfontaine> | caker: I'm monitoring my bw usage but a recent domain I added bumped my usage by about 150% |
| 13:21 | <@tjfontaine> | I'm already at 50% for this month |
| 13:21 | <@caker> | tjfontaine: ask me about b/w in a few days, ok? :) |
| 13:21 | <@tjfontaine> | heh k :-) |
| 13:26 | <sinned> | if you were going to monitor outgoing smtp caker, how would you implement it |
| 13:26 | <sinned> | just checking to see if the from: address is valid for the person sending it? |
| 13:27 | <@caker> | sinned: Not sure .. I'd at first just want # of emails .. so I suppose some sniffing would be required |
| 13:27 | <@inkblot> | you'd never know how many i was sending |
| 13:28 | <@caker> | sinned: or maybe an easier way would just be an ebtable rule that counts outgoing smtp traffic/packets |
| 13:28 | <@inkblot> | about 95% of my ssh traffic is ssh encapsulated uucp |
| 13:28 | <@inkblot> | for mail delivery |
| 13:28 | <SupaDongzu> | (dongs) |
| 13:28 | <@inkblot> | (i know) |
| 13:28 | <@caker> | yeah, see it's probably so easy to work around, might not even be worth it |
| 13:28 | <ajr> | one day i hope to use up all my bw on outgoing smtp :) |
| 13:28 | <@inkblot> | uucp cooks my emergency bacon |
| 13:28 | <sinned> | caker that doesn't work for spam though |
| 13:28 | <SupaDongzu> | he is drunk on the honey of UUCP |
| 13:28 | <@inkblot> | i so am |
| 13:29 | <sinned> | if you're a 'spamming host' that would get an ip block banned, you're sending to port 25 on public email servers |
| 13:29 | <SupaDongzu> | if we're ever in armageddon |
| 13:29 | <SupaDongzu> | uucp will own us |
| 13:29 | <SupaDongzu> | like, mad max computer networks |
| 13:29 | <sinned> | what exactly is uucp anyways |
| 13:29 | <SupaDongzu> | tin cans and string |
| 13:29 | <SupaDongzu> | !!!!!! |
| 13:29 | <@inkblot> | sinned, try google |
| 13:29 | <SupaDongzu> | how old are you, sinned? |
| 13:29 | <@caker> | sighup: uucp? |
| 13:29 | <sighup> | wish i knew, caker |
| 13:29 | <@inkblot> | (12?) |
| 13:29 | <sinned> | 21 |
| 13:29 | <sinned> | not old enough to have used uucp |
| 13:29 | <@inkblot> | Oh. |
| 13:29 | <limecat> | haha uucp |
| 13:29 | <SupaDongzu> | haha |
| 13:29 | <SupaDongzu> | yeah |
| 13:29 | <limecat> | my first internet account was that |
| 13:30 | <limecat> | it was email and newsgroups only. no telnet, ftp or irc. |
| 13:30 | <SupaDongzu> | I had a mail account on a UUCP host in 1991 |
| 13:30 | <SupaDongzu> | yep |
| 13:30 | <sinned> | i didn't use the internet until 95 |
| 13:30 | <SupaDongzu> | then my BBS turned into a full ISP with a shared T1 |
| 13:30 | <limecat> | a 56k frame relay. at the time it seemed so fast! hehe. |
| 13:30 | <@inkblot> | [inkblot@goose:/etc/postfix][inkblot@goose:/etc/postfix]$ wc -l uucp.transport |
| 13:30 | <@inkblot> | 50 uucp.transport |
| 13:30 | <SupaDongzu> | they split the cost with someone else |
| 13:30 | <SupaDongzu> | haha |
| 13:30 | <@inkblot> | ^-- my, my that's a lot of uucp routing |
| 13:30 | <@inkblot> | [inkblot@dorothy:/etc/postfix][inkblot@dorothy:/etc/postfix]$ wc -l uucp.transport |
| 13:30 | <@inkblot> | 42 uucp.transport |
| 13:31 | <@inkblot> | it is The Justice |
| 13:31 | <SupaDongzu> | it went on a diet |
| 13:31 | <SupaDongzu> | UUCP is great for sneakernet, too |
| 13:31 | <@inkblot> | SupaDongzu, take a look at that table on goose |
| 13:31 | <@inkblot> | SupaDongzu, let me know which entries to get rid of |
| 13:32 | <@inkblot> | i got the domain list from your exim.conf, but there's lots of expired domains on that list |
| 13:32 | <SupaDongzu> | it's a lot of comments |
| 13:32 | <SupaDongzu> | haha |
| 13:32 | <@inkblot> | it's a lot of meat, too |
| 13:32 | <SupaDongzu> | yeah |
| 13:32 | <SupaDongzu> | haha |
| 13:32 | <SupaDongzu> | I love how UUCp really is the best way to get mail to and from whiskeyjack |
| 13:33 | <@inkblot> | I know! |
| 13:33 | <@inkblot> | and laptops! |
| 13:33 | <SupaDongzu> | well |
| 13:33 | <SupaDongzu> | I dunno about that |
| 13:33 | <@inkblot> | and hosts on freaky nazi ISPs! |
| 13:33 | <SupaDongzu> | haha |
| 13:33 | <SupaDongzu> | yes |
| 13:33 | <SupaDongzu> | I've taken to using the term "Fordist" instead of "Nazi" |
| 13:34 | <@inkblot> | ha ha |
| 13:34 | <SupaDongzu> | Since most of the Nazi rhetoric was based on Ford's essays |
| 13:34 | <SupaDongzu> | and the Interstate highway system was just an import of the Reichsautobahn |
| 13:34 | <SupaDongzu> | which was built using a process commonly referred to as "Interstate Socialism" |
| 13:34 | <SupaDongzu> | because it followed closely the "national socialism" that built the reichsautobahn |
| 13:34 | = | ajr [~alan@24-193-93-159.nyc.rr.com] quit (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 13:35 | <SupaDongzu> | and for once in this channel I'm not trolling |
| 13:35 | <SupaDongzu> | Hitler had Ford's picture up in his office |
| 13:35 | <SupaDongzu> | like "Our Founder" |
| 13:35 | + | ajr [~alan@24-193-93-159.nyc.rr.com] joined #linode |
| 13:35 | <limecat> | Ford used to send Hitler something like 100,000 Deutschemarks on Hitlers bday. |
| 13:35 | <SupaDongzu> | yeah |
| 13:35 | <@inkblot> | i think that regardless of whether the electric and telephone infrastructure is private or publicly owned, the highway infrastructure should be the same |
| 13:36 | <sinned> | reading the uucp rfc, it looks like uucp is just a non-dns-based addressing/delivery scheme? |
| 13:36 | <sinned> | it even still uses smtp? |
| 13:36 | <@inkblot> | no, it does not use smtp |
| 13:36 | <@inkblot> | not even remotely |
| 13:36 | <SupaDongzu> | haha |
| 13:36 | <SupaDongzu> | uucp networking is a lot like a text adventure |
| 13:36 | <@inkblot> | no, it does not use dns |
| 13:37 | <@inkblot> | no, it does not use ip |
| 13:37 | <SupaDongzu> | all the routing steps are like "north", "south", "out" |
| 13:37 | <@inkblot> | ha ha |
| 13:37 | <@caker> | echo echo, bar bar ? |
| 13:37 | <@guinea-pig> | pick lock. |
| 13:37 | <SupaDongzu> | while SMTP uses a global namesapce |
| 13:37 | <@inkblot> | rmail nick@teh.entar.net |
| 13:37 | <SupaDongzu> | space |
| 13:37 | <SupaDongzu> | :D |
| 13:37 | <limecat> | haha |
| 13:37 | <SupaDongzu> | so like "zork" from goose could be a different machine than "zork" from dorothy |
| 13:38 | <SupaDongzu> | and it'd be correct |
| 13:38 | <@inkblot> | uucp is a protocol for transferring jobs between unix hosts over any kind of serial link |
| 13:38 | <limecat> | uucp gives errors when it encounters the troll and it doesn't have the magic sword. |
| 13:38 | <SupaDongzu> | pretty much |
| 13:38 | <@inkblot> | most uucp implementations can even dial modems |
| 13:38 | * | caker trims the kernel list |
| 13:38 | <@inkblot> | but i use ssh connections |
| 13:38 | <SupaDongzu> | as a tunnel |
| 13:38 | <@guinea-pig> | i use MIT as a tunnel |
| 13:38 | <@inkblot> | and just pipe uucico into ssh <remotehost> uucico |
| 13:39 | <sinned> | i completely don't get it |
| 13:39 | <SupaDongzu> | okay |
| 13:39 | <SupaDongzu> | imagine that you only have modems |
| 13:39 | <SupaDongzu> | and no global worldwide entarnet |
| 13:39 | <sinned> | yes that's what i assumed uucp was only used for |
| 13:39 | <@inkblot> | and it's 1972 |
| 13:39 | <SupaDongzu> | you want to use "store-and-forward" to send data around |
| 13:40 | <SupaDongzu> | it goes hop, hop, hop from box to box |
| 13:40 | <SupaDongzu> | you make a connection, blast the data, and hang up |
| 13:40 | <SupaDongzu> | periodically |
| 13:40 | <SupaDongzu> | now, with the internet, we just have each mail or post or whatever open a new connection |
| 13:40 | <SupaDongzu> | directly |
| 13:40 | <@inkblot> | goose!dorothy!zork!nick |
| 13:40 | <SupaDongzu> | by hopping through routers instead of hosts |
| 13:40 | <sinned> | i understand that part, i don't understand how you know what the destination address + full path of boxes to get there comes from |
| 13:40 | <SupaDongzu> | haha |
| 13:40 | <SupaDongzu> | routing tables |
| 13:40 | <@inkblot> | sinned, you look at a map |
| 13:40 | <SupaDongzu> | common sense |
| 13:41 | <SupaDongzu> | and a map |
| 13:41 | <SupaDongzu> | yes |
| 13:41 | <SupaDongzu> | most people in the UUCP days gave their address relative to well-known hosts |
| 13:41 | <SupaDongzu> | like UCBVAX |
| 13:41 | <sinned> | ah |
| 13:41 | <@inkblot> | seriously, people had big posters with a map of the uucp "backbone" |
| 13:41 | <SupaDongzu> | or UUNET |
| 13:41 | <sinned> | now it makes more sense |
| 13:41 | <sinned> | hahaha |
| 13:41 | <@inkblot> | but i don't use it that way |
| 13:41 | <@inkblot> | postfix does all my routing |
| 13:41 | <SupaDongzu> | yeah |
| 13:41 | <@inkblot> | and i route by domain |
| 13:41 | <SupaDongzu> | so he only leapfrogs inside his own network |
| 13:42 | <limecat> | i need to get a Coke |
| 13:42 | <@inkblot> | which is like a dozen or so nodes |
| 13:42 | <@inkblot> | two hubs |
| 13:42 | <limecat> | and some kinda breakfast-type pastry |
| 13:42 | <SupaDongzu> | and a partridge in a pear tree |
| 13:42 | <limecat> | yeah! |
| 13:42 | <sinned> | so does it transfer the messages with zmodem or some shit? |
| 13:42 | <@inkblot> | yeah, that's zork |
| 13:42 | <limecat> | i hope the market sells them. |
| 13:42 | <SupaDongzu> | sinned: it uses UUCP |
| 13:42 | <SupaDongzu> | uuencode |
| 13:42 | <SupaDongzu> | uudecode |
| 13:42 | <@inkblot> | sinned, there are a number of different encodings |
| 13:42 | <sinned> | oic |
| 13:42 | <@inkblot> | there are encodings for 7-bit serial |
| 13:42 | <SupaDongzu> | uucp assumes 7-bit ascii |
| 13:42 | <@inkblot> | 8-bit clean |
| 13:43 | <@inkblot> | optimizes for low throughput |
| 13:43 | <@inkblot> | (etc) |
| 13:43 | <@inkblot> | about half a dozen |
| 13:43 | <SupaDongzu> | but nowadays anyone without an 8-bit clean relay is SUPER old-skool |
| 13:43 | <limecat> | then i'll come back, go to Slashdot and belittle C++, all the while claiming that I know what I'm talking about because "my C++ was included in the 2.6 kernel" |
| 13:43 | <SupaDongzu> | limecat: that's a pretty good troll |
| 13:43 | <SupaDongzu> | but you need to work drive geometry into it |
| 13:43 | <limecat> | SupaDongzu: yup. i haven't written a good one in many months and i'm getting rusty. |
| 13:43 | <@inkblot> | so, uucp tranfers jobs |
| 13:44 | <@inkblot> | i.e. a command and it's input |
| 13:44 | <@inkblot> | its |
| 13:44 | <@inkblot> | to delivery mail, a job consisting of an rmail command and its input (the email text) is transferred |
| 13:44 | <sinned> | what a strange but seemingly useful idea |
| 13:44 | <@inkblot> | when it gets to the other side, |
| 13:44 | <@inkblot> | the other node executes it |
| 13:45 | <@inkblot> | and the rmail command sticks it into the mta |
| 13:45 | <sinned> | what can uucp servers support besides rmail? |
| 13:45 | <@inkblot> | anything that the uucp user on the remote host has access to |
| 13:45 | <@guinea-pig> | *blink* |
| 13:45 | <@inkblot> | well, most things |
| 13:46 | <SupaDongzu> | yeah |
| 13:46 | <SupaDongzu> | you can transfer files, run commands, etc |
| 13:46 | <@inkblot> | i've tried to do things like, |
| 13:46 | <@inkblot> | remotely run ifconfig |
| 13:46 | <@inkblot> | etc |
| 13:46 | <SupaDongzu> | you could make it run builds if you wanted |
| 13:46 | <@inkblot> | ha ha |
| 13:46 | <SupaDongzu> | use UUCP as distcc |
| 13:46 | <@inkblot> | hahahahahaha |
| 13:46 | <@inkblot> | you're so money |
| 13:46 | <SupaDongzu> | inkblot: I expect a patch sent to MBP by sundown |
| 13:47 | <sinned> | hmm so.. the receiver's uucp daemon will execute a command for that user without his intervention? |
| 13:47 | <@inkblot> | uucc |
| 13:47 | <sinned> | hahah uucc |
| 13:47 | <@inkblot> | well, you have to understand what the uucp "daemon" really is |
| 13:47 | <@inkblot> | jobs are queued up on the sender side |
| 13:48 | <SupaDongzu> | yeah, the daemon is actually on the client side |
| 13:48 | <@inkblot> | and cron tells uucico (the daemon *and* client program) when to troll the queue |
| 13:48 | <SupaDongzu> | usually the only real daemon involved is an mgetty |
| 13:48 | <@inkblot> | when there are jobs in the queue, it looks up how to connect to the remote end |
| 13:48 | <SupaDongzu> | or in inkblot's case, sshd |
| 13:48 | <@inkblot> | in the process of connecting to the remote end, |
| 13:48 | <@inkblot> | it starts uucico on the remote host |
| 13:49 | <@inkblot> | and then they speak uucp gubble-gubble moon language to each other |
| 13:49 | <@inkblot> | but only after the remote end authenticates the incoming call |
| 13:49 | <@inkblot> | so first the outgoing jobs are sent, then the incoming jobs from the remote host are sent |
| 13:50 | <@inkblot> | this includes the output from previously sent jobs |
| 13:50 | <@inkblot> | (rmail never outputs anything) |
| 13:50 | <@inkblot> | and then they disconnect |
| 13:50 | <@inkblot> | and the two uucicos start executing or relaying the jobs they just got |
| 13:51 | <@inkblot> | then they each exit |
| 13:51 | <SupaDongzu> | and then in nine months, the baby comes to term |
| 13:51 | <SupaDongzu> | and the miracle of life presents itself to all present |
| 13:51 | <@inkblot> | yes, something like that |
| 13:52 | <@inkblot> | so postfix, sendmail, etc each provide an rmail command for use with uucp |
| 13:53 | <SupaDongzu> | and then the maaaagical aorta fairy... |
| 13:53 | <@inkblot> | and have some mechanism for sticking outgoing mail in a uucp queue |
| 13:53 | <SupaDongzu> | UUCP is great for frontier networks |
| 13:53 | <@inkblot> | it would be great for space exploration |
| 13:53 | <@inkblot> | what with the timeout problems that tcp would have in space |
| 13:54 | <SupaDongzu> | yep |
| 13:54 | <SupaDongzu> | I'd imagine that any computer networks on MARS would have a UUCP link to Earth |
| 13:54 | <SupaDongzu> | or some such beast |
| 13:54 | <@inkblot> | nasa's got smart people but i don't know if they'd actually use uucp |
| 13:55 | <SupaDongzu> | actually, there are folks working on high-latency TCP |
| 13:55 | <SupaDongzu> | specifically for Martian application |
| 13:55 | <SupaDongzu> | have been for decades |
| 13:57 | <@guinea-pig> | <insert troll about latency of their minds> |
| 13:59 | <limecat> | SupaDongzu: perhaps they'll find a use for it on EFNet |
| 14:00 | * | limecat would rather dip his nuts in honey and teabag an anthill than be forced to go to EFNet |
| 14:00 | <@tjfontaine> | hmm |
| 14:00 | <@tjfontaine> | rofl |
| 14:12 | <@guinea-pig> | limecat: are you gay? |
| 14:13 | <limecat> | why do you ask? |
| 14:13 | <@guinea-pig> | only people i ever met who knew what teabagging was were gay |
| 14:13 | <@guinea-pig> | i'm not gay.. i just knew a few :p |
| 14:13 | <@mikegrb> | guinea-pig: but you know about it!!!! |
| 14:13 | <@guinea-pig> | heh |
| 14:13 | <limecat> | well, lets just say that when the lion is hungry, it eats! |
| 14:13 | <limecat> | :p |
| 14:14 | <@mikegrb> | pwahahah |
| 14:14 | <@guinea-pig> | mikegrb: do you know? |
| 14:14 | <@guinea-pig> | :p |
| 14:14 | <@mikegrb> | guinea-pig: do I know what? |
| 14:14 | <@guinea-pig> | said the geek to the other geek |
| 14:14 | <@guinea-pig> | do you know what i know? |
| 14:14 | <@guinea-pig> | (do you know what i know?) |
| 14:15 | <@mikegrb> | wtf |
| 14:15 | <@tjfontaine> | (are you thinking what I'm thinking?) |
| 14:15 | <@guinea-pig> | (he's such a dork.) |
| 14:15 | * | mikegrb kicks guinea-pig and tjfontaine in the nuts and runs away |
| 14:15 | guinea-pig | is now known as ian_lowrey |
| 14:16 | <@tjfontaine> | ian_lowrey: I watched fight club, I don't think one can draw a conclusing either way simply by watching the movie. Though I do think you should give the book a read |
| 14:16 | <@ian_lowrey> | i think i should read the book as well |
| 14:17 | <@ian_lowrey> | but the book wasn't supposed to be part of the discussion at the time |
| 14:17 | <@tjfontaine> | I know |
| 14:17 | <@ian_lowrey> | that's what kept pissing me off :p |
| 14:17 | <@tjfontaine> | heh |
| 14:17 | <@tjfontaine> | I'm sorry |
| 14:17 | <@ian_lowrey> | in a larger scheme |
| 14:17 | <@ian_lowrey> | but i don't know the larger scheme. i don't know the *whole* story |
| 14:17 | <@ian_lowrey> | i could not participate in such a discussion |
| 14:17 | * | tjfontaine nods |
| 14:18 | <@tjfontaine> | did you read anything I said late lastnight/ |
| 14:18 | <@tjfontaine> | s/\//?/ |
| 14:18 | <@ian_lowrey> | i saw you said something around midnight... it was still on the screen when i woke up at 2/3am |
| 14:18 | <@ian_lowrey> | basically "you should read the book" |
| 14:18 | <@ian_lowrey> | or maybe that was someone else who said that... |
| 14:18 | <@tjfontaine> | that was me |
| 14:18 | <@ian_lowrey> | heh |
| 14:19 | <@ian_lowrey> | on that note |
| 14:19 | <@tjfontaine> | but before that I had mentioned one specific scene |
| 14:19 | * | ian_lowrey goes to sleep now |
| 14:19 | <@tjfontaine> | k |
| 14:19 | <@ian_lowrey> | if i wait until i'm tired again (8pm?) i'll again not get enough sleep |
| 14:19 | <@ian_lowrey> | i wish i could fall asleep around 6 |
| 14:19 | <@ian_lowrey> | but no |
| 14:19 | <@tjfontaine> | heh |
| 14:19 | <@ian_lowrey> | 2 or 8 |
| 14:34 | * | jax is away: stupid operations people |
| 14:47 | <@adamg> | sighup ping mikegrb |
| 14:47 | <sighup> | mikegrb: ping! ping! ping! |
| 14:47 | <sighup> | mikegrb was last seen on #orion 3 minutes and 27 seconds ago, saying: no just normal [1073677413] |
| 14:52 | <@mikegrb> | pong! |
| 14:53 | <@adamg> | mikegrb a while back you said you had a pdf about courier and mysql |
| 14:53 | <@mikegrb> | tis an html dopc |
| 14:54 | <@mikegrb> | er doc |
| 14:54 | <@mikegrb> | webpage even |
| 14:54 | <@mikegrb> | search #linode logs for PerlStalker |
| 14:55 | * | caker deploys new disk-io monitoring |
| 14:56 | <@caker> | which will help me bofh bad Linodes |
| 14:59 | <@ian_lowrey> | bofh is not a verb. do you mean lart? |
| 14:59 | <@ian_lowrey> | :p |
| 14:59 | <@caker> | s/help me/help me be a/ |
| 14:59 | <@ian_lowrey> | still doesn't work |
| 15:00 | <@caker> | nice 19 `cat ian_lowrey's pids` |
| 15:01 | <@ian_lowrey> | that'll never fly |
| 15:01 | <@ian_lowrey> | ian doesn't exist :P |
| 15:01 | * | adamg finds the courier logs hidden on thegrebs |
| 15:01 | * | ian_lowrey sleeps |
| 15:01 | * | caker is done wasting time with ian_lowrey |
| 15:02 | <@mikegrb> | caker: saw some interesting stats on my linode |
| 15:02 | <@mikegrb> | caker: it humms along with a mysql query ever 2.6 seconds |
| 15:04 | <@caker> | hmm I broke something |
| 15:06 | <@adamg> | i hope it aint anything inportant |
| 15:06 | <@mikegrb> | just your linode |
| 15:06 | <@mikegrb> | :p |
| 15:06 | = | risto [~risto@dallas.kotalampi.com] quit (Ping timeout: 492 seconds) |
| 15:07 | <schweeb> | caker: another damn stall. |
| 15:07 | <@caker> | schweeb: someone just booted on host14 .. |
| 15:08 | <@caker> | schweeb: obviously has something to do with it |
| 15:08 | * | caker scratches his head |
| 15:08 | <schweeb> | yea, i would imagine so |
| 15:09 | * | mikegrb points at that cable |
| 15:09 | <@mikegrb> | --------v |
| 15:39 | + | rko [~risto@dallas.kotalampi.com] joined #linode |
| 15:39 | <rko> | what just happened to host3? |
| 15:40 | <@caker> | Not exactly sure. I restarted all the Linodes on the box |
| 15:40 | <@caker> | Just this morning, I removed all the old (potentially vulnerable) kernels, so at least everyone is running the latest |
| 15:40 | <@caker> | I'm setting up a box here locally to see what the affect of the recent explot would be |
| 15:41 | <rko> | odd thing is... my apache didn't start normally |
| 15:41 | <rko> | gotta find out why not |
| 15:41 | <@caker> | rko: apache2? |
| 15:41 | <@tjfontaine> | hostname issues? |
| 15:41 | <rko> | no, apache 1.3.29 |
| 15:41 | <@caker> | tail error_log :) |
| 15:42 | <rko> | when the new kernel came up few days ago it restarted fine |
| 15:42 | <rko> | yeah:-) I know... I'm just in early stages of my investigation. |
| 15:48 | <rko> | can't find anything |
| 15:49 | <rko> | only difference to normal reboot was that it had to do recovery on ext3 fs |
| 15:52 | = | sighup [~sighup@webuser.thegrebs.com] quit (Remote host closed the connection) |
| 15:55 | + | sighup [~sighup@webuser.thegrebs.com] joined #linode |
| 15:55 | <@caker> | rko: any luck? |
| 15:56 | <rko> | I didn't find anything unordinary other than httpd just wasn't up after the reboot |
| 15:56 | <rko> | but I will reboot it again |
| 15:56 | <rko> | ++reboot; |
| 15:56 | = | rko [~risto@dallas.kotalampi.com] quit (Quit: Leaving) |
| 15:56 | <@caker> | strange .. but apache started ok manually? |
| 15:58 | + | rko [~risto@dallas.kotalampi.com] joined #linode |
| 15:58 | <rko> | started up fine now |
| 15:58 | <rko> | can't explain |
