TheGrebs.com:IRC Logs:#linode:2003:11:13

---	Log	opened Thu Nov 13 00:00:11 2003
00:10	<EFudd>	http://www.bizient.com
00:11	<@caker>	cool idea -- but I'm not signing up :)
00:30	<EFudd>	just fyi-ing
00:48		* Artifex is away: sleep
01:18	-!-	sighup [~sighup@thegrebs.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
01:22		* caker was just in glibc hell
01:32	<EFudd>	http://www.xpde.com/shots.php
01:33	<@caker>	windows look-a-like?
01:33	<@caker>	looks very good :)
01:33	<EFudd>	yeah
01:33	<EFudd>	i was like "what kinda manager is this for windows? what is it trying to change? looks the same"
01:34	<@caker>	the big X kinda gives it away :)
01:34	<@caker>	heh -- they placed the "windows colors" behind X..
01:34	<EFudd>	http://c133.org/qwin-vs-asteroid.png
01:34	<EFudd>	that guy used xmag+vmware to create a pixel perfect copy
01:34	<EFudd>	:)
02:27	<wap>	Good morning.
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08:19	<@adamg>	hi all
08:23	<wap>	Hi adamg.
08:29	<@adamg>	sighup: status
08:29	<sighup>	Since Thu Nov 13 07:08:14 2003, there have been 1 modifications and 2 questions. I have been awake for 1 hour, 21 minutes, 24 seconds this session, and currently reference 12405 factoids. Addressing is in optional mode.
08:29	<@adamg>	linode avail
08:29	<sighup>	Linode availability -- [Linode 64: 0] [Linode 96: 24] [Linode 128: 3] [Linode 192: 0] [Linode 256: 0]
08:54		* wap is away: going out
08:56	<@mikegrb>	morning
08:58	<@adamg>	morning
08:59	<@adamg>	linode forum
09:06	<@mikegrb>	linode forums?
09:06	<sighup>	mikegrb: Apache HTTP Server Forum: Subdomains ; Sales Questions and Answers: Value of larger Linode ... ; Linux Networking: Problems connecting to ... ; General Discussion: phpbb mysql webserv ; General Discussion: Locally Boot Image
09:06	<@adamg>	didnt even notic it hadnt outputted anything
09:06	<@mikegrb>	heh
09:07		* adamg thinks he went a bit ott on the forum today
09:08	<@mikegrb>	, which is not casuing people a lot of problems with now with the end of life.
09:09	<@mikegrb>	s/not/now/
09:09	<@mikegrb>	Place like server matrix will only allow you to run something like debian or gentoo or their more
09:09	<@adamg>	i was in a rush
09:09	<@mikegrb>	s/or/on second time
09:09	<@mikegrb>	no problem
09:09	<@mikegrb>	you got good points
09:10	<@mikegrb>	that is what editing is for
09:11	<@mikegrb>	heh tj and I had both said that if we ever grew to the point that we needed a dedicated box we would talk to caker about each getting a Linode 1024 :)
09:11	<@mikegrb>	the linode features really are great
09:12	<@adamg>	if there is enough demand I am sure he will go bigger plans
09:12		* mikegrb too
09:17	<@adamg>	done
09:26	<@adamg>	rr
09:26	<sighup>	adamg spins the chamber, pulls the trigger, and lives to hand you the gun.
09:40	<@caker>	Morning!
09:42	<@caker>	mikegrb: Linode 1024 :)
09:42	<@caker>	adamg: your thought about still running inside UML, but be the only person on a host is interesting
09:43	<@caker>	adamg: get all the benefits of the LPM, but ~ full host speed
09:59	<eurozip>	.
10:13	<@adamg>	well i had to think of some thing to put in the post
10:16	<@adamg>	well I was assuming that the LPM could handle any sort of configuration etc
10:21	<@adamg>	it would also mean a seemless upgrade from another package
10:36	<@adamg>	or another thing you could do is offer 'dedicated servers' but allow people to partition them as they wish so they could have a couple of vps on there, so they could seperate things out if they wist etc
10:38	<@adamg>	s/wist/whish
10:38	<@adamg>	s/wist/wish
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11:05	<@adamg>	chris you about?
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11:05	<@caker>	yes
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11:11	<@caker>	The linode dedicated is something I've thought about for universities and computer labs .. being able to control a box that's in your local network, for instance
11:12	<@caker>	instructors could setup students accts at the beggining of class (or semester) do the lab, and reset everything
11:16	<Artifex>	not a bad idea at all
11:16	<@adamg>	most universties have large networks and can usual manage things themselves, small collages and schools could have a use for it though
11:16	<Artifex>	networking certification classes....
11:16	<@adamg>	but you should think about offering dedicated servers though to expand your spec range
11:16	<Artifex>	disaster recovery training...
11:17	<Artifex>	redhat certification training...
11:17	<Artifex>	stuffs like that
11:17	<Artifex>	nice to be able to wreck a box and then fix it up with a click of a button
11:18	<@adamg>	chris have you go any plans to add any servers to the planet in the future or are you going to stick with he
11:19	<@caker>	I'm considering more space at TP .. I'd get my next rack with them, but I still need to decide if I want to open an east-cost dc
11:19	<@caker>	(like by using the space I have at XO already)
11:20	<@adamg>	it would just be nice to choose the location, as then people can get a linode at each and have dns server and backup mail at different locations
11:20	<@caker>	"to expand your spec range" -- if I offered dedi's, they wouldn't be managed by the LPM though
11:20	<@adamg>	why not
11:20	<@caker>	Do you mean, for example, that pressing "reboot" in the LPM would rebood the dedicated box?
11:21	<@adamg>	I think that dedicated server running uml is a good idea, provides an easy up grade route etc
11:22	<@caker>	right, but without access to the actual host
11:22	<@caker>	Linode.com still manages the host box
11:22	<@adamg>	yes
11:22	<@caker>	ok, that works :)
11:22	<@adamg>	at least then they cant wreck anything vital
11:23	<@adamg>	they get the full power and space of the dedicated box but with the uml advantages
11:23	<@caker>	Still, though -- I wonder why people wouldn't just go get a real dedi .. Really just to have access to the LPM... resellers would like that, I suppose
11:23	<@adamg>	a lot of people at the momment who are getting dedi servers are wrecking them bc they done know what they are doing
11:31	<@adamg>	it depends on what your price the dedi servers at, there is also the added advantages of having instant restores, beeen able to easily save the configuration and can restore to it at any time
11:35	<@caker>	I doubt I could compete spec for spec with true dedi's .. I don't see how some of these companies make any money on dedicated boxes (esp. around the $100 range)..
11:36	<@adamg>	bc they but 100's at a time
11:36	<@caker>	even if the box costs a few hundred, that's still a many months just to pay back the price of the gear
11:36	<@caker>	right
11:36	<@caker>	And they get cheap desktop units too (which are fine)
11:36	<@caker>	which is fine, i meant
11:36	<@adamg>	exactly
11:37	<@adamg>	1u boxes are very expensive
11:37	<@adamg>	but as things go, the more customers you get the cheaper things get
11:38	<@adamg>	esp bw
11:38	<@caker>	Right .. only way to really be competitive would be to either own your on DC and lines, or partner w/ them ..
11:41	<@adamg>	that is true
11:41	<@caker>	but one can get close to their prices probably ..
11:41	<@caker>	Not sure ..
11:41	<@adamg>	but once you increase your bw usage, those prices should drop
11:42	<@adamg>	what can you get a low end box for, celeron 1.7 half to a gig of ram with a 40 gig drive for
11:42	<@adamg>	linode avail
11:42	<sighup>	Linode availability -- [Linode 64: 0] [Linode 96: 24] [Linode 128: 3] [Linode 192: 0] [Linode 256: 0]
11:42	<@caker>	I agree.. Just that I'd rather cut out the middle man :)
11:42	<@adamg>	which middle man?
11:42	<@caker>	bandwidth provider middle man
11:43	<@adamg>	and go direct to the providers
11:43	<@caker>	I'm a notch down from them in the chain
11:43	<@caker>	I suppose, ... not sure how that works (peering arrangements and leased lines, I'd guess)
11:43	<@adamg>	you would have to go to a carrier neutral dc, equinix for example
11:43	<@caker>	What does that mean?
11:44	<@caker>	Means they have more than one backbone provider?
11:44	<@adamg>	with tp and he you are forced to use their bandwidth, you just get an uplink to there backbone correct
11:44	<@caker>	Uplink into their network, which goes out to where ever .. HE is different since they are tier 1 and have their own lines -- but that benefits them, not me/us
11:44	<@adamg>	with a carrier neutral dc all they provide is the space for your equipment along with power, fire supression etc
11:45	<@caker>	And so I'd call who to provision fat lines?
11:45	<@adamg>	they have several providers coming in to there dc, and you go with the one you want, or get links off a few on them
11:45	<@caker>	hrm
11:46	<@adamg>	so for example, they would have time warner, cogent and alot more in there and you would go to them for like a 10/100/1000 line
11:48	<@adamg>	http://www.equinix.com/prod_serv/ibx/networks.htm
11:48	<@caker>	reading the pdf :)
11:48	<@adamg>	lists the posssible providers they have
11:49	<@adamg>	you would go direct to arin for ip addresses instead of using a providers, use bgp4 for redundency etc
11:49	<@caker>	yeah
11:50	<@caker>	Own routers, etc
11:50	<@adamg>	yes
11:50	<@caker>	neat
11:50	<@adamg>	i take it you have never looked at dc like that then
11:50	<@caker>	I never distinguished them from the rest, no
11:51	<@caker>	costs of entry would probably be fairly high commitment
11:51	<@adamg>	it just means you have 100% control of your network and you do cut out the middle man
11:51	<@caker>	Right
11:51	<@caker>	and you don';t have the expense of leased lines and all the requirements of your own DC
11:51	<@adamg>	there is no harm in finding out
11:51	<@caker>	(power, etc)
11:51	<@adamg>	they do it all for you, you just get a rack/cage/suite etc
11:51	<@caker>	Sounds like the next best thing
11:52	<@caker>	to your own DC
11:52	<@adamg>	basically it is
11:52	<@adamg>	owning you own dc is very expensive thing to do
11:52	<@caker>	yeah
11:52	<@adamg>	and i like equinix
11:52	<@caker>	To do it correctly :)
11:52	<@adamg>	they also take care of the security etc
11:52	<@caker>	physical security?
11:52	<@adamg>	take a look at the tour
11:52	<@adamg>	yes
11:54	<@caker>	Wonder how close TP and EQ's Dallas DC's are ..
11:54	<@adamg>	and they can also do things like installing servers for you
11:54	<@adamg>	have you been to tp or he?
11:54	<@caker>	Not yet
11:55	<@caker>	I've been to XO plenty of times .. I'll be upgrading the machine linode.com is served off of come December
11:55	<@adamg>	what is your current bw usage?
11:55	<@caker>	(two machines, actually)
11:55	<@caker>	Which place, and in mbytes or mbit?
11:56	<@adamg>	mbit both
11:56	<@caker>	TP in mbits is about 3-4, HE uses 95th percentile (rape) and I now have a 6 mbit contract
11:57	<@caker>	two machines @ HE, 6 mbit .. whatever!
11:57	<@adamg>	so in a few months you should have at lest at 10 mbit commentment
11:57	<@caker>	which they want more for 10mb than they do for 100
11:57	<@adamg>	ok then a 100 mbit commitment
11:58	<@caker>	But that locks me into having a cabinet that won't allow cross-connects to other cabs.. and, they limit the power to the cabinet to
11:58	<@caker>	so you can only get about 10-12 machines per cab
11:58	<@caker>	it's stupid
11:58	<@adamg>	it may be worth your while to look at the prices at somewhere like equinix for space and bw
11:58	<@caker>	I agree -- thanks for turning me onto them
11:58	<@caker>	I thought they were 'just another colo provider'
11:58	<@adamg>	there are many othes, a nice one in canda
12:00	<@adamg>	if you have the money and the knowledge carrier neutral is the way to go
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12:07	<tjfontai1e>	ouch... that hurt
12:08	-!-	tjfontai1e is now known as tjfontaine
12:09	<@caker>	eq video is impressive
12:10	<@adamg>	it is one of the best I have seen
12:10	<@adamg>	it is nice that they have showers etc so you can freshen up after a long trip :-)
12:10	<@caker>	hah
12:11	<@adamg>	I like the small things
12:11	<@caker>	They have DCs in NY and VA
12:12	<@caker>	... for the east coast solution
12:12	<tjfontaine>	ooh :-)
12:12	<@adamg>	they have dc's everywhere
12:13	<@adamg>	what do you pay for a rack
12:14	<@caker>	it all depends .. HE charges $400 for a rack (no b/w) and 15amps
12:14	<@adamg>	change 400 usd to gbp
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12:14	<@caker>	sighup: change 400 usd to gbp
12:15	<@caker>	sighup: wake up
12:15	<@adamg>	damm bot
12:15	<@caker>	sighup: good bot
12:15	<@caker>	sighup: reset
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12:15	<@caker>	sighup: change 400 usd to gbp
12:15	<sighup>	caker: 400 U.S. Dollar makes 236.85 British Pound
12:15	<@adamg>	abt �264
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12:16	<tjfontaine>	rut roh
12:16	<tjfontaine>	I'll go restart him
12:16	<@adamg>	where is the he dc?
12:17	<@caker>	Fremont, CA
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12:18	<@caker>	sighup: hello
12:18	<sighup>	what's up, caker.
12:19	<@adamg>	so how is your gbp and router knowledge chris?
12:19	<@caker>	sighup: quote EQIX
12:19	<sighup>	EQIX last 11/13/2003 12:04pm: 19.71 -0.02 [-0.10%] (19.88 - 19.40) [Open N/A] Vol 23,643
12:19	<@caker>	fair at routing, no experience w/ bgp, other than what I've read
12:19	<@adamg>	arin is just knowing the procedures
12:20	<@caker>	I'm not too worried about learning that stuff... just more to learn about router choices (and cost)
12:20	<@adamg>	in some ways it is just nice to have 100% control over as much as you can
12:20	<@adamg>	well cisco something probably
12:21	<@adamg>	but if linode keeps going like it is, I think a carrier neutral would be the best way to go
12:21	<@caker>	HE doesn't charge my for IPs (but they damn well make up for it elsewhere) .. so that'd be nice to pay pennies per year/ip instead of what TP charges me
12:21	<@adamg>	with arin you just pay a membership cost for unlimited ip addresses, you just need to be able to justify them
12:22	<@caker>	I'm sure there would be redundancy even if I went with a single provider at first
12:22	<@adamg>	within reason
12:22	<@adamg>	if the provides took their link down for mainance you would have a problem
12:23	<@adamg>	but yes you could start with a single link then when you needed more you go to a different provider to bring in the redundency
12:23	<@caker>	right
12:23	<@caker>	I would hope even with one provider there would be some redundancy. .. perhaps not though
12:24	<@adamg>	yes and no
12:24	<@adamg>	some people do things like use cogent as a backup link
12:24	<@caker>	right
12:24	<@adamg>	$3000 for 100 meg
12:24	<@adamg>	if I remeber correctly
12:25	<@adamg>	cogent is not liked by most people but it works
12:25	<@caker>	yeah
12:25	<@adamg>	but they have got better
12:25	<@adamg>	prices have changed though
12:26	<@adamg>	$1000 for 100 meg
12:27	<EFudd>	yo
12:27	<@adamg>	100 meg + rack $3000
12:28	<EFudd>	so one of the dudes on corvette forum has 317k miles on his 99 corvette.
12:28		* EFudd impressed
12:28	<@adamg>	nice
12:31	<@adamg>	well at least I have been useful to someone today
12:32	<@caker>	adamg: very -- you've got me thinking :)
12:33	<@caker>	hrm
12:34	<@caker>	EQ has a 200,000 sq-ft DC in Secaucus, NJ -- same town as XO ..
12:34	<@caker>	I know it isn't the same building though
12:34	<@caker>	XO has the entire bldg.
12:34	<@adamg>	not to much room then
12:35	<@caker>	Looks like it's their biggest one .. other DC's range from 30-150,000 sqft
12:35	<@adamg>	it can hurt in finding out the prices
12:35	<@caker>	I'd want some local redundancy, too .. so i guess that means 2x routers
12:35	<@adamg>	they keep poping up, they are also world wide as well
12:36	<@adamg>	yes
12:36	<@caker>	have to think about the costs of entry, growth potential, etc
12:36	<@adamg>	maybe worth looking at what the dc and bw costs are as well
12:39	<@adamg>	if you speak to the dc, they should be able to give you a list of the hardware you would need and possibly suggest which ones would be good for you
12:40	<@caker>	yeah
12:40	<@caker>	then I go on eBay
12:40	<@adamg>	well there is that
12:40	<@caker>	The last switch I bought NEW in a box for about 30% the price
12:40	<EFudd>	yeah :)
12:40	<EFudd>	I've picked up lots of good switches from ebay in the past
12:40	<@caker>	entire lots of cisco gear sit in warehouses for years
12:40	<@adamg>	as long as the equipment is new then there is not much of a risk
12:40	<EFudd>	however lately, they've been more pricey there :/
12:41	<EFudd>	I picked up a 3550-48-xl-en for $1500 a year ago
12:41	<@caker>	EFudd: the majority of auctions charge higher prices, but you can find the "good ones"
12:41	<@caker>	is that layer3?
12:41		* caker forgets
12:41	<EFudd>	Yah.
12:41	<EFudd>	layer2/3
12:41	<@caker>	excellent
12:41	<EFudd>	add EMI engine for l3
12:42	<EFudd>	altho, my cco account was closed about 3wks ago :/
12:42	<EFudd>	fokkin' crisco :)
12:42	<@caker>	crisco :)
12:42	<@caker>	I thought cco was free reg?
12:42	<@adamg>	cco?
12:42	<@caker>	Their site just keeps logging me in, and then asking me to log in again ;)
12:42	<EFudd>	cco is free reg
12:42	<@caker>	cisco's site is so huge
12:42	<EFudd>	however I used to have a support contract.
12:42	<@caker>	nod
12:42	<EFudd>	which meant, free images
12:43	<EFudd>	it worked 5 years after expiration...
12:43	<@caker>	yeah, that's the part I can't get to
12:43	<EFudd>	3 weeks ago they becan expiring EVERYTHING relating to old accounts cause folk were mass downloading all images, hten posting them on websites :)
12:43	<EFudd>	the trick now, apparently, is to spend $50 bux on a support contract for a 7xx series router :)
12:43	<@caker>	adamg: cco is cisco's members-only thing
12:43	<@caker>	i forget what it stands for
12:43	<@adamg>	ok
12:43	<EFudd>	until thye lock down images based on contract type
12:43	<EFudd>	cisco connection online, I think
12:44	<@caker>	damn
12:44	<EFudd>	http://www.stupidfastboats.com/vette2 <- C6 corvette.. one of the carriers (second picture) says GMX-245 at the bottom, which is the GM codename for the C6 platform
12:44	<@caker>	I was looking for someplace that archived images
12:45	<@caker>	EFudd: you are the corvette man
12:45		* EFudd nods :)
12:45	<EFudd>	had 5 now
12:45	<@caker>	EFudd: I've always wanted (and plan on having someday) an old early 60s Stingray
12:45	<EFudd>	nice !
12:45	<@caker>	It will be mine.
12:45	<EFudd>	the old ones are good for parking :)
12:45	<@caker>	That and a Mustang fastback
12:45	<EFudd>	new ones are good for running
12:46	<@caker>	64-67 Mustang Fastback
12:46	<@caker>	parking as in not driving? :)
12:46	<EFudd>	yah, i was looking at one of those as a first car
12:46	<EFudd>	dad didn't agree
12:46	<EFudd>	well, driving occasionally, to shows. :)
12:46	<EFudd>	i wouldn't consider it a daily driver unless i had no cash concerns
12:46	<@caker>	We had the corvette anniversary here in Nashville this past year
12:47	<EFudd>	aye :)
12:47		* EFudd was born in nashville
12:47	<@caker>	Been to the corvette museum?
12:47	<@caker>	no kidding! :)
12:47	<EFudd>	nope, not yet.
12:47	<EFudd>	Yeah, lived there a grand total of 6 months :)
12:47	<@caker>	I was born in Atlantic City :)
12:47	<EFudd>	not that i remember any of it :)
12:47	<@caker>	then family moved to CA?
12:48	<EFudd>	nah, family has always been east coast
12:48	<@caker>	ok, must have crossed my wires
12:48	<EFudd>	I just uprooted myself and moved all around the US for a few years
12:48	<EFudd>	went from NC to Maine to Cali to NC
12:48	<@caker>	<--- same
12:48	<EFudd>	before NC, TN, SC, KY, NC
12:48	<@caker>	nj, wv, fl, tn
12:48	<EFudd>	and a few places in each of those :)
12:48	<@caker>	soon back to nj
12:49	<@caker>	Geesh
12:49	<EFudd>	prolly moved 15+times in my life
12:49	<EFudd>	'tis tough :)
12:49	<EFudd>	prolly gonna be in NC a while, don't think fiance wants to go much further
12:49	<@caker>	All in the search of fame and glory?
12:50	<EFudd>	Something like that :)
12:50	<EFudd>	generally avoiding ex's :)
12:50	<@caker>	hah!
12:50	<@caker>	they won't move out, so you just move states, huh?
12:50	<EFudd>	something along those lines :)
12:51	<EFudd>	I never owned anything in any other states
12:51	<EFudd>	could literally pack up my shit in 1 car and be gone
12:51	<EFudd>	when i moved to kali, someone gave me a kalifornia king sized waterbed with 6 drawers underneath it....
12:51	<EFudd>	used that for clothes+sleeping+misc crap in the headboard
12:51	<EFudd>	gave it away when i moved
13:18	<@mikegrb>	EFudd: do you know how to get the counter values for iptables?
13:18	<@caker>	sighup: who is EFudd?
13:18	<sighup>	well, EFudd is logge din.
13:18	<@caker>	sighup: good bot
13:18	<sighup>	:)
13:19	-!-	caker_ [~null@pcp508196pcs.nash01.tn.comcast.net] has joined #linode
13:19	<@mikegrb>	heh
13:19	<caker_>	hrm :)
13:19	<@mikegrb>	caker_: do you know the answer to my query?
13:20	-!-	mode/#linode [+o caker_] by mikegrb
13:20	<@caker_>	which?
13:20	<sighup>	which is most likely located in /usr/bin
13:20	<@caker_>	I don't think I saw the past few lines
13:20	<@mikegrb>	heh
13:20	<@caker_>	sighup: shutup
13:20	<sighup>	Sorry, caker_, I'll keep my mouth shut.
13:20	<@mikegrb>	get counters for iptables rules
13:20	<@mikegrb>	the man page ins't too helpful
13:21	<@caker_>	What's that?
13:21	-!-	caker [~null@68.52.199.4] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
13:21	-!-	caker_ is now known as caker
13:21	<@mikegrb>	mentions zeroing the counters
13:21	<@mikegrb>	and seeting them to arbitrary values but not how to find out what the counters are at
13:21	<@caker>	iptables -Z chain
13:21	<@caker>	ahh
13:21	<EFudd>	er. no.
13:22	<@caker>	iptables ( -t <table> ) -L -n
13:22	<EFudd>	try the faq? :)
13:22	<@mikegrb>	ahh
13:22	<@mikegrb>	thanks
13:22	<@caker>	np
13:22	<@mikegrb>	heh EFudd I have
13:22	<@mikegrb>	nothing goes into enough detail
13:22	<@mikegrb>	oh the faq
13:22	<@mikegrb>	I've looked at howtos and stuff
13:22	<@caker>	I think there's a "continue" target useful for collecting counters
13:22	<@caker>	at least in ebtables there is ..
13:23	<@caker>	doesn't do anything but count, and continue to next rule
13:23	<@caker>	Branching logic in [eb][ip]tables can be dumb
13:25	<@caker>	ahh -- no CONTINUE target in iptables, my bad
13:25	<@mikegrb>	I /think/ what will work for me is leaving default rule at accept and then specifying a specific rule with target accept to count
13:25	<@caker>	That will work
13:25	<@caker>	place all your drops up top
13:26	<@mikegrb>	once I get this figured out, I can add in my spam stuff
13:26	<@mikegrb>	dspam logs innocent and spam ip's to syslog
13:26	<@mikegrb>	I can grab those with some simple perl count up the number of times per ip and block port 25 inbound from those ip's
13:27	<@mikegrb>	a little better then using the blocking lists as I have full control
13:27	<@caker>	sighup: port 25?
13:27	<sighup>	hmmm... port 25 is smtp - Simple Mail Transfer
13:27		* caker snickers
13:27	<@mikegrb>	heh
13:32	<@mikegrb>	have to use verbose to get the counters
13:34	-!-	NDX28 [~aaaaa@dom4-135.menta.net] has joined #linode
13:36	-!-	NDX28 [~aaaaa@dom4-135.menta.net] has left #linode []
13:41	<@adamg>	hows the new server going chris?
13:42	<@caker>	I had some glib problems last night .. apt decided to "upgrade" me to the i386 rpms
13:42	<@caker>	which blew everything to hell
13:42	<@caker>	But I was able to fix that and continue my benchmarks
13:42	<@adamg>	oh
13:42	<@caker>	Benchmarks really didn't help much, to be honest
13:42	<@caker>	I'm using tiobench and ConTest
13:43	<@caker>	I'm going to ask the group on host4 to try and replicate the "massive Linode swapping = host slowdown" problem
13:43	<@caker>	and then reboot host4 into 2.6 .. still on the fence between AS and CFQ
13:52	<@adamg>	is as the standard io thing
13:53	<@caker>	It is the default in 2.6, yes
13:53	<@caker>	you can pass "elevator=[as\|deadline\|cfq]" to the kernel at boot
13:53	<@adamg>	have you done any benchmarks between them
13:53	<@caker>	Yes
13:53	<@adamg>	and
13:53	<@caker>	see previous comment ..
13:53	<@adamg>	which comments
13:54	<@caker>	CFQ isn't meant to be benchmarked, per say -- it solves a different problem
13:54	<@adamg>	ok
13:54	<@caker>	(that the testing I did wasn't very useful)
13:54	<@mikegrb>	Consumers in Arrow, Oklahoma know this experience all too well. They were part of a real-world RFID (Radio Frequency Identification) experiment conducted earlier this year by Wal-Mart and Proctor & Gamble. The two U.S. giants placed hidden RFID tags inside of Max Factor Lipfinity lipstick with little mention of the affair to consumers, according to the Chicago Sun-Times.
13:54	<@mikegrb>	Over a four month period, P&G researchers viewed the Wal-Mart shelves from some 750 miles away in Cincinnati. They used Webcams mounted near the shelves to watch consumers buy the lipstick and then used RFID scanners to track the inventory.
13:54	<@mikegrb>	crazy
13:54	<@adamg>	I assumed the benchmark testing you where doing was standard stuff to check the install
13:54	<@mikegrb>	I can see consumers getting pretty pissed
13:55	<@caker>	adamg: I had hoped the results would have proven anything one way or another
13:55	<@adamg>	isnt that a breach of something
13:55	<@caker>	privacy?
13:55	<@mikegrb>	heh
13:55	<@mikegrb>	http://www.theregister.com/content/5/33982.html
13:55	<@mikegrb>	I would think so
13:55	<@caker>	RFID is scary
13:55	<@mikegrb>	the RDID is one thing
13:55	<@mikegrb>	webcams on the shelf!
13:55	<@caker>	it bugs me that "They" can track where I go via my cell phone
13:56	<@mikegrb>	yes
13:56	<@mikegrb>	sighup: where is caker right this very second?
13:56	<sighup>	mikegrb: bugger all, i dunno
13:56	<@mikegrb>	heh
13:56	<@caker>	by which towers I'm using
13:56	<@adamg>	the web cames get covered under store security
13:56	<@mikegrb>	he got bored
13:56	<@mikegrb>	right
13:56	<@mikegrb>	well this is a little dif then normal security cams
13:56	<@mikegrb>	they were being watched, and studied, by people 750 miles away in cincinnati
13:57	<@adamg>	the rdif is a really a problem
13:57	<@mikegrb>	To date, Wal-Mart and the U.S. Department of Defense has been among the most vocal backers of the technology. Some say their plans could cost suppliers millions.
13:57	<@mikegrb>	heh
13:58	<@mikegrb>	sighup: the register?
13:58	<sighup>	mikegrb: Wal-Mart turns customers into RFID lab rats; Iomega revs removable HDD challenge to tape; Wi-Fi turns us into busy worker bees; Things to do on the Net when you're dead; Europe in Brief; Can't get a shag? Get nTAG!; Don't put app protection on your firewall, Mr Jones; T-Online to buy AOL - report; UK students - fancy a trip to Brazil?; Intel vs Motorola
13:58	<@mikegrb>	heh "Things to do on the net when you're dead"
13:58	<@adamg>	I can understand them been used in the store on items to try and stop theft but they should be removed at the checkout
13:58	<@caker>	disabled, yeah
13:59	<@caker>	I think they are passive, too .. so no way for them to stop working eventually
14:00	<@caker>	Let me post my results somewhere...
14:02	<@caker>	http://www.theshore.net/~caker/ioschedbench.txt
14:02	<@caker>	2.6.0-test9-mm2 is with as
14:02	<@caker>	Thing to look at with CFQ is Latency
14:03	<EFudd>	interesting..
14:03	<EFudd>	iosched eh?
14:03		* EFudd tosses that in his List
14:03	<@caker>	EFudd: what's that?
14:03	<@caker>	which list? :)
14:04	<@mikegrb>	"The List"
14:04	<@caker>	santa's list?
14:04	<@adamg>	it looks better on seq writes, but that is abt it
14:04	<@caker>	I'm most interested in Random writes
14:05	<@adamg>	there didnt look to be much difference
14:05	<@caker>	because it's the write-storms that starve everything else on the host
14:05	<@caker>	and this test doesn't really test that :)
14:05	<@caker>	I'm going to do a bunch of simple tests with streaming writes, while timing read operations (like find inside a kernel tree)
14:06	<@caker>	like: dd if=/dev/zero of=/foo & ; time ls -R /usr > /dev/null
14:07	<@caker>	That's pretty much the scenario
14:09	<EFudd>	The List is useful toys
14:09	<EFudd>	which mainly means this
14:09	<EFudd>	at some point in the future i'm gonna say "hey caker, what was the name of The Program" ?
14:09	<EFudd>	then you'll respond "huh?"
14:09	<EFudd>	after a few minutes of perusing your synapses, you will say "iosched!"
14:10	<@caker>	ahh -- sorry, those are actually tiobench benchmarks
14:10	<@caker>	bad name for the file
14:10	<EFudd>	Ah! Yes. that one! :)
14:10	<@caker>	heh
14:10	<@caker>	eventually this txt file will have other benchmarks in it
14:10	<EFudd>	caker, bonnie++ for your io tests ?
14:10	<@caker>	too complicated
14:10	<@caker>	for the tests I need/want to run
14:11	<EFudd>	oic.
14:11	<@caker>	dd, cat, and time are your friend
14:11	<@mikegrb>	EFudd: you can just go to thegrebs.com/irc ... searchable even
14:13	<EFudd>	http://www.ekitchengadgets.com/shgldrchset.html?
14:13	<@caker>	Where do you find allt this stuff????
14:13	<@adamg>	ive seen that before
14:13	<@mikegrb>	that's spiffy
14:14	<@mikegrb>	caker: gizmodo.com is a good place for gadgets
14:14	<EFudd>	caker, i sit on too many irc channels.
14:14	<@mikegrb>	sighup: gizmodo?
14:14	<EFudd>	and gizmodo is only worth viewing about once a week
14:14	<@caker>	I wouldn't think chess and alcohol mix very well :)
14:14	<@mikegrb>	EFudd++
14:14	<sighup>	mikegrb: Tungsten T4 due out in January?; First look at LG's first Tablet PC; Getting ready for November 24th; Cellphone companies give up, accept number portability; The Gizmomoto; Brighthand reviews three new Pocket PCs; Disposable digital camera hacked; Swap videos and music for the Treo 600; Nokia's pen-based 3108 cellphone; Add WiFi to Samsung's new i600 Smartphone; Gateway's new gadgets; Repeat after me: there is no black iPod'
14:14	<EFudd>	did you read the rules? :)
14:14	<EFudd>	3. Illegal moves are permissible as long as neither player notices.
14:14	<@mikegrb>	heh
14:14	<@caker>	hah
14:18		* EFudd still needs to write an ircskript+bot
14:18	<EFudd>	it'll be called /replace <user>
14:19	<EFudd>	where user is kicked+banned with a reason of "You have been replaced with a small compact script."
14:19	<EFudd>	at which point a fork of a bot with that users nick is performed to join channel, replacing kickee.
14:19	<@mikegrb>	heh
14:19		* EFudd bored
14:19	<@caker>	Oh man
14:19	<@caker>	evil
14:19	<@mikegrb>	would be better if it was an ircop
14:19	<@mikegrb>	so it could /kill them
14:19	<@mikegrb>	that way the nick is available
14:20	<EFudd>	I used to have fun when i ran an irk server..
14:20	<EFudd>	my server was hax0red slightly
14:20	<EFudd>	my bots joined in AS a server
14:20	<EFudd>	so i could insta-spawn them
14:20	<@mikegrb>	heh
14:20	<@mikegrb>	like services do
14:20	<EFudd>	i could /msg the $server and get a spawn
14:20	<EFudd>	Yeah.
14:20	<EFudd>	I used to break stuff badly
14:20	<@caker>	I wanted to do something similar with AIM where I used to work... PISSED me off everyone wasted time on it
14:20	<EFudd>	10k+ joins in 1second
14:21	<@caker>	The other thought I had was to plant a box where I could sniff everything, and post the daily conversations on our intranet
14:21	<EFudd>	heh !
14:21	<@mikegrb>	heh
14:21	<@mikegrb>	good idea
14:21		* caker grumbles
14:21	<@caker>	Hi -- busy today?
14:22	<@caker>	No, I'm suppsoed to be working but I'll chat instead
14:22	<@caker>	blah blah blah
14:22	<@mikegrb>	I think I was supposed to get yelled at by the xbox-linux maintainer this morning
14:22	<@caker>	smack!
14:22	<@caker>	for what reason?
14:22	<tjfontaine>	hehe
14:22	<@mikegrb>	I had one of those discussions via email with that guy franz
14:23	<@mikegrb>	my initial email to him was off list politely asking him to stop top posting
14:23	<Artifex>	haha
14:23	<@mikegrb>	he replied on list
14:23	<Artifex>	franz
14:23	<Artifex>	he makes me laugh
14:23	<@caker>	argh .. 49 degrees here
14:23	<@mikegrb>	so I replied on list telling him lemme find it ...
14:24	<@mikegrb>	You're a stupid arrogant bastard.
14:24	<@mikegrb>	and that I was going to send his emails to /dev/null from now on
14:24	<@mikegrb>	I got an email from the project maintainer, just one line "Do NOT talk this way."
14:25	<Artifex>	heh
14:25	<@mikegrb>	I replied to this (off list) email as franz would have, on list with "Sir, Yes sir."
14:25	<Artifex>	professionalism from everyone on the team would be nice
14:25	<@mikegrb>	yes
14:25		* Artifex stops daydreaming and goes back to his dayjob
14:25	<@mikegrb>	I should have asked why when someone is an ass they get yelled at by him, unless they are franz
14:25	<@mikegrb>	then other people get yelled at for telling him to stop
14:26	<@mikegrb>	at any rate he msg'ed me on irc this morning before I was about asking if I was around
14:26	<Artifex>	he=mist or he=franz?
14:26	<@mikegrb>	mist
14:26	<@mikegrb>	franz is scared of irc me thinks
14:27	<@mikegrb>	probably afraid of getting kick-banned heh
14:27	<tjfontaine>	- xcode_pciout(0x80000810, 0x00008001); // from evox+ xcode_pciout(0x80000810, 0x00008001);
14:27	<tjfontaine>	rofl
14:27	<@mikegrb>	hah!
14:27	<@mikegrb>	was that in one of the recent comits?
14:27	<Artifex>	lol
14:27	<tjfontaine>	yes
14:28	<@mikegrb>	THAT is some funny shit
14:28	<@mikegrb>	I didn't read those
14:28	<Artifex>	i should convince one of the other people with access to his elusive "private cvs" to grab a dump of it, and give it to me to commit to the sf cvs.
14:28	<tjfontaine>	arti pointed that out the first time when he put them in...
14:28	<Artifex>	that'd piss him off a bit, i s'pect
14:28	<@mikegrb>	I half wanted to send a msg to the list bitching about his non descriptive log message
14:28	<Artifex>	mikegrb: in many cases, he is beign intentionally vauge
14:28	<tjfontaine>	improoffments
14:28	<@mikegrb>	heh
14:28	<Artifex>	mikegrb: he likes the very subtly add things to cromwell without anyone noticing
14:29		* EFudd questions that
14:29	<Artifex>	mikegrb: like the pcbios support that's been in there for ages, and noones ever mentioned aloud. ;-)
14:29	<@mikegrb>	yes, but this is a team project not a one man show, one man that said they already left the project
14:29	<Artifex>	no.. no..
14:29	<Artifex>	it's a one man show.
14:29	<@mikegrb>	heh
14:29	<Artifex>	well, cromwell is anyways
14:29	<@mikegrb>	yes EFudd?
14:30	<EFudd>	good comments are better than good code.
14:30	-!-	nick [nick@a1-4d167.neo.lrun.com] has joined #linode
14:30	<@mikegrb>	EFudd++
14:30	<@adamg>	hi nick
14:30	<Artifex>	nick!
14:31	<Artifex>	buy a linode!
14:31	<nick>	hi asl plz
14:31	<nick>	nah
14:31	<Artifex>	you know you want to...
14:31	<nick>	im broke dude
14:31	<nick>	jen bought me lunch
14:31	<EFudd>	sighup: linode avail
14:31	<sighup>	Linode availability -- [Linode 64: 0] [Linode 96: 24] [Linode 128: 3] [Linode 192: 0] [Linode 256: 0]
14:31	<EFudd>	see!
14:31	<Artifex>	nick: get paid tomorrow, right?
14:31	<@mikegrb>	that one has your name on it nick
14:31	<nick>	in theory
14:31	<nick>	which one?
14:32	<Artifex>	the one with "nick" written on it.
14:32	<nick>	actually my sister is in the market for a new server..
14:32	<@adamg>	i like this, come to the linode channel and get press ganged into buying a linode
14:32	<Artifex>	ok
14:32	<Artifex>	then
14:32	<Artifex>	the one that says "nicole" on it then
14:32	<Artifex>	has her name all over it
14:32	<Artifex>	you should let her know
14:32	<nick>	peer pressure didnt get me to smoke or drink of sacrifice small animals to satan
14:32	<Artifex>	it's sitting here waiting for her. ;-)
14:33	<nick>	its not gonna get me to buy a linode ;p
14:33	<EFudd>	what wrong with animal sacrafices?
14:33	<Artifex>	well, then, buy a linode cuz they rock, instead
14:33	<nick>	maybe
14:33	<nick>	let me sort my finances
14:33		* Artifex nods
14:33	<nick>	besides id want a 256 anyway
14:33	<nick>	just do one up you.
14:33	<Artifex>	rofl
14:33	<Artifex>	i can downgrade to the 96, and you could take my 128, if its really that important to you
14:34	<Artifex>	no, actually...
14:34	<Artifex>	no i couldnt.
14:34		* EFudd likes his idle li-192
14:34	<EFudd>	i'm kinda pondering a dedicated host tho :/
14:34	<nick>	dont bother
14:34	<nick>	its not working out for me that well
14:34	<EFudd>	why is that ?
14:34	<nick>	god hates me
14:35	<EFudd>	try animals.
14:35	<Artifex>	hah!
14:35	<nick>	all i can think of
14:35		* Artifex goes back to his dayjob (for real this time)
14:35	<EFudd>	you must be using a redhat distribution. :)
14:35	<EFudd>	my dayjob involves watching DVDs
14:37	<@mikegrb>	heh
14:38	<@mikegrb>	my dayjob involves napping on the couch and irc'ing
14:40	<@mikegrb>	tjfontaine: you see the stuff heidi is saying? I'm impressed
14:40	<EFudd>	my nightjob isn't even interesting. it's sleep.